Why is NCSoft entering the hyper competitive live service shooter market?

All the project devs have very clear visions what they're trying to achieve and they have very clear goals or innovations they want to bring to the dramas. Still I think there is a possibility of course this will totally fail. I was in you know those teams know where I should have had to put you know forecast for new projects. I was always Yeah,
I was always thinking, why am I doing this section? All the numbers are garbage.
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the rest of the games industry is being, well, more cautious? I caught up with John Gi Jin, the CEO of NC America and the COO of NC Soft West to ask her why. Hello JJ, welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for inviting me.
Every time I seem to do an interview with NCFT or NC America or always seems to be at Gamescom, uh you're always doing big things uh in Cologne, showcasing big titles, making announcement. What is it about Gamescom or maybe Europe that makes this that means that this is a spot that you always go for? Yes, you know, Gamescom has been growing as actually one of the world's largest you know gaming conventions and of course I think it's a very important place for us and actually honestly I don't think know we've been doing a lot of things in the past know like a past you know couple of years at Gamescom
we did a lot of things in the past but it was more you know like a long time ago and we've been more you know quiet in the recent years so this year we

really just wanted to you know bring you know some titles actually know we're working on for the global release and you know tell the stories about you know ourselves and you know what we're trying to do in the western region. So basically you know we work with our in-house studios and also third party studios to bring you know more titles from Korea but also we have you know other studios outside of creation know we are working with but I don't think a lot of people know all the stories and actually know what's actually really cooking on our end.
So this time you know we really wanted to you know show or know what's been cooking in the oven and what we are trying to achieve. You might have just called me out there for my age. I think I'm like thinking back to the days of Guild Wars and Wild Star interviews that I did probably 10 years ago.
Yeah. Right. I just say we've been a little more quiet at Gamescom. So, you know, I joined at actually exactly one year ago. I think it's August 19th. It's

my first work anniversary inoft.
Oh, really?
And this is really meaningful. you know there's a lot going on and this past one year really felt like just couple of months you know a lot going on so this gamescom is really one of the results you know to show what my team and also Anzisoft have been you know working on for the global audience so very meaningful train
well you have been on a journey and you actually we'll talk about this throughout the conversation NCOFT and NC America doing quite a lot of investing at a time that Not everyone's doing that. Um, but let's talk about as we're still at Gamescom. Let's talk about uh the stuff that you've just shown. It's quite a lineup of games that you've got bringing here. Talk us through some of the stuff that you're showing.
So, we just showed two new titles, two new shooters that, you know, I'm also really excited about. So, one of the titles is has been known as Project Lol until yesterday. And now we just going

to reveal the official title Cinder City.
Are you trying to get us all killed here? And it's an endless shooter.
3 minutes to drop. Everyone stand by
that takes place in like a postapocalyptic dystopian Korea. As a player, you embark a journey to find humanity in a re-imagined dystopian soul with the mega city of Freya where the 21st century technology collides with 21st tactic. It's a very interesting and unique gameplay experience that I believe both you know PvE and PVP players will love and it actually has a distinct a very strong like a narrative driven you know game play like in a campaign mode with all the like a seamless open world game play you know as an MMO RPG expert you know we really just know wanted to create new type of shooter some people

might say it's like technical shooter some people might say it's more like loader. We really don't care you know how people or we you know define the game because I think at the end of the day people are going to see it as very different you know game play from the most other you know like existing competitors in the shooter genre. So we're very excited about this one. And the other title actually we just showed at ONL is time takers. And time takers is a new project. We really haven't shared any information about time takers before this OL. And this is another cool shooter. It's a competitive team-based survival shooter.
I thought I died. No,
instead I was given a second chance in a strange world
that challenges players to compete for time
alongside rogues from across the time scapes,
throwing them into a very fast-paced and

dynamic battles. This game also offers very distinctive and diverse game plays through also unique heroes or characters also paired with a lot of different skills and weapon combinations. The game slogan for this is a trigger or survival is a coast. So you're going to see it's more like a strategic, you know, competitive teammate shooter.
Wow. And yeah, I think as you actually saw in the trailers, these two, you know, shooters have a big contrast. I think I don't know, you know, Cinder City is more like a serious, you know, military
ADF
and sci-fi concept, you know, open world MLA shooter and Time Taker is very kind of stylish, ultra modern style, you know, team based um survival.

H
we're very excited about this new project and also because we really haven't tried like a shooter project before. We haven't you know released any shooter title successfully in the market in the past you know 30 years. So these are really ambitious project for us and we had a lot of internal discussions to you know make this project ready for the audience feedback. So when we actually worked on this in our trailers, I think we were feeling like we're really just kind of getting ready for our first blind date like we're ready to show ourselves but we don't know how the other person will react, right? But at least I believe we are ready to show and we are ready to get feedback. So this time we're going to show the actual game footage and also at our B2B booth we're going to have you know hands-on game play for Thunder City. So I really hope you know that the booth visitors you know at our B2B booth will love the game

play and give us a lot of good feedback.
Shooters is it's a competitive market as well. So as well as this being something that you've done before you're doing two of them.
Yeah, I know that NCOFT are MMO live service experts. you know, you this is this is what they do, right? But it's obviously really competitive. There is the time in the market and that kind of stuff. I know that you've just told me why it's different and why this is exciting, but is there an element of because of who you are and your experience that you're bringing to this that perhaps other more traditional shooter companies aren't aren't necessarily talking about
or doing.
Yeah, I think especially for Stender City. So we started with like the MMO shooter idea know in the market there were a few you know big like MMO shooters but I think they were all different and we are also trying something new just know based on what we know and what we've built so far with other projects actually know we've worked on so I think you know the team

at Chapu is working on in a cinder city really wanted to create like a very different type of game plays based on our MMO experience and the team is really an expert like open like a seamless open world and also the setting is very unique because it's just rooted in the real Korea and featuring all you know iconic buildings and monuments and geographical locations especially in in Gangnam area in a solo you know iconic area.
Yeah. And we just know like developed all this you know using you know like surveys and photo scans from 3D maps and I think also you know server technologies and all the like a combat technology know we had with our previous projects were also just know going into this in a new shooter. So I believe the game play will feel very different. Are you leaning into obviously we've seen the rise of K-pop and we've seen you know big Korean shows like Squid Game do really well outside of outside of Korea.

Are you really leaning into the career aspect now perhaps more so than you would have done in the past? So I think there is something you know specific to a Korean content whether it's you know about creativity or you know unique story or you know whatever you know aesthetic components I think there are some components that really you know hook up the the viewers audience uh in the global market and I think we also have those components as like a Korean game developer and I'm not sure how I can you know describe those components, you know, precisely. But, you know, if if you actually ever played, you know, some of our, you know, MMO RPGs, I think you'd tell, you know, these are actually very different from, you know, those like western games. Some people might say, actually, I don't like something about it. But of course, you know, there are things that you know the Korean developers are really good especially regarding like MMA component in

multiplayer uh gameplay experience and also in a character progression. I think these components all sets it apart from other other games and also this like a Korean setting. I think you know we also wanted to create something you're very familiar with and a lot of other games you know we also made our kind of fantasy you know medieval European world and actually the the core team for you know cinder city are the people who also created the original blade and soul
and the original blade and soul also has a very unique story line based on like Asian you know larer art related stories. So, I think the team really wanted to create in a very, you know, emotionally, you know, engaging narrative for Cinder City. And I think they did a great job uh mixing this, you know, pretty cool narrative like in a sci-fi fashion

and the real world Korean stories. So, I think there is a very uniqueness in there. We spoke to Sega a couple of months ago about making their Japanese games appeal more strongly in the West, which have been successful with with like Like a Dragon and things like that. Just like with Squid Game, we're seeing lots of games coming out of Japan and China as well as Korea really catching on in the West. It feels to me maybe it's a change in the West like maybe they're becoming Western consumers are becoming more interested or engaged in that stuff. I don't know. I I don't you maybe you've done a little bit more um looking into it than me. I think it's just a global trend. I think just the audience whether they're you know game players or movie watchers or music listeners I think people are more and more ready to embrace you know different you know cultures or different type of content I think probably because of YouTube the Netflix or steam I think all this you know global content platforms

popularity I think it's more you know easier than before you know just to have access to any content actually coming from any country, any culture. So even know for the younger generations, I can see, you know, their experience is very different. I think when we were young, we really didn't have the access. But now things are just more open and people can really just choose whatever content they want, whether it's like a German or a Spanish or you know like a Korean or a Japanese. I think you know the experience is richer and I think the appetite is also getting more you know richer.
I think that that has an impact on the global you know content business or entertainment business and I think you know game industry is the same. I think people just have more variety of appetites I had to say.
You're showcasing some other stuff at Gamescom right you've got is it Band of Crusaders? Yeah. And you announcing Limit Zero Breakers

right. Right. So tell us about those.
All right. So other than those like two projects we just showed at ONL you know Cinder city and time takers we also actually hold this VIP showcase at our B2B booth. We actually showcase five big new project. Uh no actually it's um it's seven projects are very showcasing but five projects are all coming from Korea. So that's you know cinder city time takers are included in oil on stage and also limit zero breakers and blight and soul heroes and also there's I am 2 and also there are two other titles we are showcasing and one is band of crusaders made by you know one of our polishes studio we invested in and the the last one is guilders 2 expansion so it's not like a new new project but actually we're showcasing the new expansion for guilders 2. So these five Korean titles uh amongst these five Korean titles there is limit zero breakers. It's a new

action RPG created by V Game Studios and we actually in no uh we had actually equity investment and also in a publishing deal with the game studios and this one is Japanese anime inspired and action RPG that has um kind of hack and slash uh gameplay style. So it's very much like actionoriented co-op game play. We think the game play is actually very similar monster hunter and because of the art style I think it can also bring you know more like a broader audience who who love this type of game play and we also work with kadukawa the the famous you know Japanese entertainment giant who also created and published a lot of malda series and who is also working on the original anime series for breakers so you're show working on to bring limit breakers to this bigger

world. I should where you know manga and anime and you know game game fans all can enjoy the the complete story line and new type of you know game play. So this is another project know we are very excited about and we also have this like a hands-on gameplay demo at our B2B boost with a lot more explanation about the game and also we show you know blood and soul heroes and based on the Blade and Soul original IP that's also another you know action RPG or collectible MMO RPG in both you know PC and mobile platforms. So we are sure launching it pretty soon. So this is probably one of the last time actually know we just showcase best to you know media journalists
and also IM2 we just announced it in Korea we are launching IM2 later this year in Korea and Taiwan first but we are also working on the global release for the rest of the regions outside of

Korea and Taiwan for next year. So
we are also showcasing ion 2 at our boost and bend of crusaders know we really love the game. It's you know action RPG set in very dark you know European fantasy world and our partner uh virtual alammy is working on to bring the game to you know steam. So we're showcasing that one too.
So you're investing in all these projects. You've been investing in Korean studios. You've been investing in European studios. you're moving into you've moved your offices in the US and you've moved into new genres, the shooter genre. What are you trying to achieve? What is your what is your goal at the moment?
We've been, you know, NCF has been very focused on, you know, MMO or RPG genre. We tried in a couple of different genres, but I don't think you know the previous projects were very successful. So this time we really wanted to create you know more experience for our you know players just bringing you know

diversity out of genres and the first one was shooter even our audience MMRPG players always play you know some shooters so it's always in their library so as a publisher I think it really should be very natural ambition to offer more we can do to our audience so even Our fans for you know lineage series or iron or blood and soul fans. I know actually they always have other you know shooter games they also want to play. They always play. So we actually we wanted to show them hey these are all the cool shooters we can work on in our own style. So shooter was the first I really wanted to know bringing and you know we found this project not really found I think they were already just in inhouse project or you know we just invested in we really believe actually we can work on to you know create a new uh new market for our players and we

also invested in you know earlier this year we also invested in you know one uh US studio um who is also creating you know working on another shooter very defect. Um, so I think you know we are really looking at the shooter genre very seriously. So then we can really offer you a different type of experience under ancest brand and basically we're also trying to diversify you know our portfolio and that's actually where there's no breakers came in and also you know we work with the virtual arch for you know a bend of crusaders we also invested in a couple of more studios in Korea so that we can you know see how much you know variety of content actually we can bring to our players. Are you planning any more investments and acquisitions?
Yes, we are we're definitely looking at you know more opportunities and there are also a lot more you know in-house project and first party studios which you know we are working with. So there

are you know un unannounced projects and we are you know very carefully looking at you know what opportunities you know we have to pursue in the next you know couple of upcoming years and these you know seven projects are the ones actually we believe kind of ready to show to the world but there are also others we're still working on the announcement plan and you know plans ahead but also we're definitely looking at more opportunities you know more studios more IP you from different genres and from different locations. So we are looking at, you know, those opportunities.
So you're being a lot more ambitious at a time when the rest of the games industry is is being more conservative, being more cautious.
What's your thinking behind that? What what's what's the why?
I think, you know, we're we're really at a point uh we really want to kind of jump up. I mean I think the game industry just everywhere has been not

very active like in you know investment and the growing projects you know there are a lot of cancellations layoffs for the past couple of years
and we were the same you know we actually did a lot of you know restructuring efforts especially last year the company has gone through a lot of changes but I always believe that's also the time exactly the same time we really have to work on investment. So there is definitely cautiousness internally. So we're not just going aggressive for you know external opportunities. I think we are just know working on all these things together. So when we were still like you know cutting on things we also had to announce like some you know like a project cancellations last year. So when these were happening we also just know really have to go out and find you know other opportunities that what I believe because the industry has been always

cycling if you think this is really kind of deep down of the cycle I think that's exactly when you also really have to find a new opportunity because a lot of teams good team are to say uh struggling because you know there is no new fund or there's no new you know active in that splint
I think this is really in a good time for somebody like us who really has to you know find a good growth momentum once again especially outside Korean just find a good partner just to work with and just not find a good project you know we can you know support and make big so not only being aggressive I think we are also being very careful about you know budget and what project to grow and what project to, you know, hold on and evaluate again. So, we're also being very careful, but I think we just don't want to show this

ambition right now.
Actually, now is not a bad time to try things or to launch things and to invest in things. And for companies that have a strategy, that strategy might have involved closing certain things, closing projects, cutting teams or whatever. But then that strategy often means you need to invest in other things and and push in other directions.
Exactly.
I mean, I've done so many stories down the years. I basically talked about one of them there probably about 10 15 years ago at Gamescom about NCOFT trying to crack the Western market and trying to be more successful in the West. What do you think's different this time other than yourself being involved now? I don't know. I think it's hard to say the difference between the past um when I was involved in the business for inst. Uh but what I know now is I think we are I think we're trying to be more agile. It's a little probably different from like a being a startup. But my

mindset and my team's mindset is probably a little similar to like a being a growing startup because we you know as I said we also did a lot of restructuring at for sessions for the past more than couple of years and it also happened in the west. So the team I have is small but we're growing but I also keep trying not to grow too fast and we're really focusing on you know finding good opportunities for the next couple of years first and then also find a good team to work on for like a more long-term strategy. But all this is happening in a very fastpaced changing environment. Even you know one year ago we just had you know only you know three four live service titles that you know we call like the legacy titles like lineage 2 and bled and soul and for the last one year we launched the blood and soul new and we are also you know

working on just a big update for the live service title and we're working on blood and soul heroes that we are launching pretty soon and we're working on this like four or five new titles already which is already pretty ambitious.
Yeah.
But I think you know we are really trying to find a good way to be very efficient and also be smart and just very reactive to you know fast proactive to the market. Now probably we have um a good setup uh for you know more project. So
yeah. Yeah. Again I'm not sure if I can talk about the differences. Yeah, this isn't a question. It's just what's interesting to me is that most companies I'm talking to, whether it's behind closed doors or on the show, they're not investing in live service or not as not in the same way as they were or they've cutting back a little bit. They're certainly very rare for me to hear of people who talk very openly about

excitement about launching into the shooter genre, which is a super, you know, again, very competitive genre. Perhaps though, that's the reason why this is going to work because so many other companies are being more cautious in that space. it gives an opportunity for someone to be a bit more aggressive. I don't know. I it's not a question this. It's just I find it u contrary. But then this industry is everyone's obsessed with trends in this industry and and sometimes it's it's it's not as clear-cut as that. You know, just cuz something just cuz something might have been oversaturated in the past doesn't mean it doesn't work anymore.
Right. Right. Yeah. I I understand exactly what you're talking about. Um I think there is of course um concern. I mean you know when I said a shooter when we talked about shooter internally I think the first thing is everybody says is it's a saturated market there are already two big competitors in the market and how can our new games really doesn't capture even like a piece of the market right I think it's very competitive so because of that I think it's really worthwhile trying I think people are always looking for new game

but because of the market situation I think people are really I See, you know, there is um I think it's also about confidence. I think when I, you know, try to find new project, I really talk to the developers and what, you know, I'm always curious what they're really trying to achieve and for the projects, you know, we are working on right now. I really have a have a huge respect to the devs. I think you know all the uh project devs have very clear visions what they're trying to achieve and they have very clear goals or innovations they want to bring to the dramas still I think there is a possibility of course they will totally fail nobody really knows you know we're in the game game industry and even actually some really good games
they're gone like you know after some time after the launch so I know actually there is a risk And I think, you know, we just have to admit that whatever good

game can also, you know, brutally fail for very different reasons. But as long as I believe, you know, there is really good, you know, clear vision and the devs know what type of gameplay, what type of fun they want to create and what innovations they want to bring. I really want to support them and really just want to raise the success rate. And as somebody who is kind of outside of the game development, so I never touched on the game development. So I've been always been in, you know, publishing side, business side, and strategy side. So I think what I and my team can do is really just to raise the success rate even a little bit like 1% 2%. I always just want to tell my team just to find a way to you know make this project you know appeal better you know doing you know more you know focus script test or you know better test or just getting feedback from the players is getting really really important you know in in

this competitive market so announcing the project I think is really just the beginning where we start getting feedback and that's actually what you know I said we're ready to get feedback I think that's really important certain milestone. I think know we are ready but I'm pretty sure we're going to get a lot of constructive feedback. I think that's a good thing. I think at least know people are interested in you know try our games and love to you know give us feedback. I think know we can really work on you know those feedback just to make the games better and because I trust the devs who are making this project I think you know we can work on the improvements.
Yeah. Nobody likes that bit though, do they? We We all want the constructive feedback. We all know it's good and we know it leads to better products and more successful games and or whatever it is you're doing, more successful publications. That doesn't mean we like it. It's it's a it's a tough it's a tough pill to sw. I'm looking forward to

to going hands-on with them and going Cinder City and and have a look at the other stuff.
Yeah. Please visit our booth and hope you can and also you share some feedback.
Well, I'll end with one last question. you kind of answered it actually um but I I I like to end with this one is um what does success look like for you?
I think you know of course we have to think about financials but to me I think every project you know comes in different scale and different goals so I don't put it like you know we have to make you know billion dollars or you know $100 million for a successful project. I'd say if you know we have a good amount of users I think just having you know a certain number of users is really just one of the key you know metrics that I'm looking at and also you know retention I think when I look at like you know a certain amount of happy players then then you know actually this game can you know continue the live service all of the project we're working

on are going to be the live service games and I think the first thing for you and know the most important thing is just to have a good amount of you know happy players. I think there are going to be always some angry players unsatisfied players. I think we just have to admit that you know they're going to you know in exist and also those are the people who also give us good feedback you know just let us know what to improve and what they hate about us so that we can do you know self-reflection and do you know be a better better developer and publisher but there's this uh having like a you know good number of uh hepic players really should be the the first key metrics just to I know make a successful project and having that in the first place I think there is going to be you know the revenue piece that's going to follow um and when I think you know

there can be a virtual cycle where our revenue can really support um the live service team and all the cool going into it so that you know we can really invest in you know creating new new content and working on improvement for the the ongoing live service. I had to say, you know, it's a successful project. The profit could be, you know, low or high, but you never know. In a game business, it's really hard to, you know, predict and make a good forecast. I've worked on, you know, I was in, you know, those teams, you know, where I had to forecast for new projects. I was always Yeah. I was always thinking why am I doing this actually all the numbers are garbage once in the game is launched sometimes you just make you know 10 times more than you expected sometimes you just make zero
when you're expecting like 100 million so I think you know you really have to

you know go like a step by step getting you know feedback from the players and when it really hits like I understand like a break even point where okay now actually we can rein invest, you know, creating more content for the players and making a good improvement for the live service. I'd just say that's already a successful project because many games, you know, many live service games really even don't get to that point.
Yeah.
Where they can actually reinvest on the ongoing live service. So, yeah, I think I'd call it, you know, a success. JJ, I've taken up way too much of your time and you've given such really detailed and quite candid answers. I really appreciate it. I'm sure you'll get some constructive feedback, but I hope Gamescom proves to be a success and gives you confidence in what you're doing and and and it sounds like you've got it already. I just hope it continues through. Yeah, I hope it goes well. Thank you so much for your time.
Yeah, thank you.