Interview: Geoff Keighley on the impossible balancing act of running The Game Awards

That's one thing we're very passionate about with all of our shows is having a live audience there and you know the magic of a big room with thousands of people sitting around reacting to the trailers. You were in the room last year. I mean it's pretty
Yeah,
it's pretty fun and that's something that you know I miss honestly across the industry like having those sort of big gatherings of community and fans and the industry together for such some of those moments. So you hope that you surprise people and that I think is something that you know is really important to our show. Hello and welcome to the Game Business Show. It's a big week for the global video game industry as leading names from across the business descend upon Los Angeles for the Game Awards 2025. This year we'll see Cla Obscure Exhibition 33, Death Stranding 2 on the Beach, Donkey Kong Bonanza, Hades 2, Hollow Night Silk Song, and Kingdom Comes 2 compete for the coveted game of the year prize. And of course, you should expect a number of new game reveals and other surprises during the event too. And to help us look forward to it all and give us some insight into how it all comes together, I'm pleased to welcome the host, founder, curator,

organizer of the game awards and of course co-founder of the game business as well. It's Jeff Keley. Hello Jeff. Welcome to the show.
Thank you Chris. It's uh good good to finally be on TG.
Yeah, it's uh uh you've managed to keep I managed you managed to stay away for for the best out of nine months.
I know. Congratulations. I'm I'm really uh glad that you're doing this and uh it's been amazing to see how it's grown and and u I'm enjoying it. Obviously, I'm involved, but also I think you're you're serving a great uh a great role in the industry and have a lot of great content. So, congratulations to you on a a great first year.
Yeah. Well, just going to be this is going to be like 20 minutes of the two of us just saying nice things about each other. Um yeah,
questions you want.
Well, we're recording this less than two weeks from the awards. Um, it must be madness. What's going on behind the scenes? I imagine there's a thousand plates you're spinning at the moment.
Yes. Uh, you know, it's it's such an interesting experience building a show like this and you've been doing it for

ge probably 20 years now. So, uh, kind of used to it, but it's yeah, it's it's an interesting time because now, you know, a lot of the work we've done for the year, um, is kind of culminating. There's actually there's a little bit of calmness to it because we're starting to actually see some of the games, the trailers coming in. and we we know the nominees now. We just heard the uh the first pass of the game of the year orchestra medley that Lauren Val's doing which sounds great. Um so yeah, it's kind of controlled chaos actually. That's partially we have such an amazing team planning the show. So of course there are always you know last minute things going on as very busy but it's like the culmination of the whole year. So it actually gets exciting now at home because we see things things are coming to fruition. Um so I I get excited about it odd leading into the show. Yeah, it's partially because we have such a great team in the industry and everyone works together and we plan this. Um, so who knows? Maybe maybe next I'm sure next week we're in the Thanksgiving uh weekend here in the US, so I'm sure next week there'll be some drama about something. But um yeah, we're uh we're working hard and uh I hope it's hope

it's been a good show.
Last year's what it was the first year I went last year and um and obviously it was a special one. It was an anniversary year. It was some big guests. There were some massive gains. Um, but has that set the bar a bit higher now? Have you do you feeling a bit more pressure or you seem relaxed surprisingly?
I mean, it's it's so hard. Um, every year I think we're in in the zone now where it's like literally anything we say, anything we tweet, you know,
think that there's sort of some teasing or something going on. Um, look, these shows every year is different, I would say, right? people say to me it's like oh you know you you opened with you know the Witcher last year's what's the Witcher of this year and it's like you know but three years ago I can't remember what game we started with like it's just one of those things where people remember the most recent show look it was a very special show but we're really proud of that one but yeah this year it's it's like a different show and you know I say people have

different favorite games and different things they want to see you it's such an interesting year I think even on the nominee side right I'm sure we'll talk about at, you know, such sort of a strong kind of independent um representation and you have like three of the games being uh indies. So, yeah. I mean, what I love about these shows is that every year is different. It's kind of unpredictable, but how people will respond and what they're expecting. Uh I've learned for better or worse really not to say much of anything about kind of what's going to be in the show and let people sort of discover as they kind of experience it. But yeah, it's hard because there's, you know, so much speculation about what games are going to be announced, what's not going to be announced, what's going to win, what's going to happen. So we, you know, we almost do not participate in those conversations because it's really hard. I we will announce some things in the weeks leading out about some of the games that'll be there or whatnot. But yeah, it's every year is different.
It's been an interesting year as well. So is there no is there a science behind it? Do you go like we have to land something at this point in the show? this is the amount of time we should

devote to musical acts and this is how much time to awards because everyone wants that's a problem with awards everyone wants particularly an event like yours you've got people sitting at home that probably just want game announcements there's the there's the industry that wants more time with the awards is there a science to this no there's no science and as you said I think there are many different constituents that that tune in for the show and it is a balancing act right um because you you correctly pointed out that I mean there's you know the awards aspect of the show there's the announcement aspect of the show. And yes, there are some people that would, you know, like to see the show be all awards, some people like to see it all announcements. And and we sort of sit in the middle there, right, where we kind of balance between the two sides. And my view always is that, you know, the announcements create, you know, a very wide audience that tunes into the show. And because of that, when we do give out these awards, they're seen by a lot of people. And, you know, I remember last year, you know, lots of stories about this, you know, game was a lot of games had sold out out of gamero had a huge boost. it takes two at one game of the year. So that's actually, you know, it's

a hopefully it's a good thing for developers in the industry. But yeah, that that careful balance is always a hard thing to strike and we don't always get it right. Um, you know, every year, as I said, is different. So yes, I think there's there's a balancing act that always goes on between all the sort of different things that we can sort of do in the show, the time we have to balance out with uh with everyone. So yeah, that's what we're constantly thinking about.
Sort of component parts of the show are, you know, awards, world premieres, musical performances, things like that. So, and then, you know, there's lots of other kind of elements that we'll see the shows a little more, I think, theatrical probably than some of the other ones we've done. Um, just in terms of doing some cool things on stage and whatnot. But yeah, that's what that's what gets us excited every year is that every show, you know, you sort of start with a blank slate and obviously there's the, you know, the the expectations of sort of what's going to be in the show, but how we sort of map it out or we actually spend a lot of time throughout the year working with teams, developing what

we're going to do in the show. I think people probably don't realize how directly involved we are in a lot of the trailers announcements that get made. I mean we work some teams for about part of the year kind of thinking about you know the trailers and the content and we're seeing rough cuts throughout the year and kind of working our studios to sort of build these experiences uh for people then you know we do sit down and think about the flow of the show and the sort of uh emotional arc that people will go on as they sort of watch the show and and yeah there's some some balancing about sort of how we we think about you know we want to show new IP you want to show sequel you want this you know one year some fest people were upset that there were too many sci-fi games or something like that, right? So, we horror games and you know, we try and do our best, but also, you know, the show, especially on the announcement side, is really a product of what's available, which games are being made. Then, you know, you see all these lists of things people want to see announced, what not. I'm like, well, you know, half these games, I'm pretty sure, are not even being made right now, but you know, get excited about potential of them. But

also, you know, what we love about our show, I think, is hopefully showing people new things that they weren't expecting. and and hopefully people discover new games, new studios, new worlds um for the first time in the show. And that's something I think we feel an obligation to show people things they might not be expecting. Like for instance, past couple weeks like Dispatched, but a huge success. We announced that with them last year that was kind of out of nowhere. No one did that. No one had a high list of like, oh, this is the game. I can't wait to see no, you know, the game existed until we revealed it at the show. I mean, obviously, you know, it's an incredible game going on and and, you know, had a ton of success nominated this year um for debut indie. So, we do think a lot about hopefully exposing people to some new things as well, the show.
Well, yeah. And that's the cool thing about it is that um we it's often in hindsight you realize that, you know, the games the the biggest games of a year might, you know, you don't you might see something like, I don't know, Hell Divers 2 or Power World or whatever it is during one of your shows or during a show and you might think nothing of it at the time. It's not the most exciting thing. and a year later it's the biggest

game in the world and it's
I always say people you know you go into the show the things you want to see are the things you know the known quantities and hopefully at your point there will be things in there and look there you there's some games that are never in our shows and go on to be huge successes were not necessarily um the only way to find by any means right and it's true point they're game I remember hell divers out we did something with that I think a couple years ago in the show the year before it came out I think came out February and no one really paid much attention to it and then the game came out and what they said was sort of a huge phenomena. So there there moments like that and look there are also things we show on our shows that don't go on success sadly.
No,
as the industry changes and evolves, we're trying to kind of evolve with it. Um, and you know, obviously, yeah,
so many independent games, I think you'll see a lot of stuff this year
coming from sort of unexpected places, even some games that we'll showcase that are from like independent teams that don't probably will self-publish or may find a new publisher or find their own publisher inside of the show. And that's something I think is is exciting for me. Like dispatch, for example, let those

guys sell ad hoc self-publish that game. Um, and I think we're seeing more of that with the rise of digital distribution.
Yeah. Yeah.
Us working with teams and not even, you know, they may have other financing sources or other ways versus a traditional sort of publisher model. So, we're seeing that kind of evolve with the industry and of course we'll have, you know, big publishers involved in big games, our franchises. But um yeah, it's it's kind of it's a really interesting time for me when I look at like our slate of games every year and how that hopefully mirrors like what's actually happening in the industry.
Yeah, we had Owen Mahoney on the show last week and he was talking about how uh the biggest the biggest games of the year is schedule one repo meabon, you know, it's like stuff that it wasn't Assassin's Creed, you know, it was and that's that's
No, that's okay. That's something that we always think about. I think you're right. Like this year you said there been a lot of like really I mean peak all these other games that are kind of small
blueprints here
that are doing really great things that uh people are excited about and yeah you know we have to figure out how we represent the awards but also yeah on

the sort of announcement front and and smaller independent teams. Yeah. And
you know, it's an opportunity for us to find some of those. But yeah, like to your point, a lot of those games, you know, there such a discovery problem for consumers to find them. Even for us as as shows media people, it's like how do you discover those? And yeah, we didn't, you know, World Prepo on the show last year. It would have been great if we did, but it's also like it's one of those ones that, you know, we didn't I wasn't even aware of that game until it came out, right? And then it kind of built attention. And that's that's part of it is the traditional, you know, PR marketing cycle for games. I always say like there is no playbook anymore and there's you know so many different paths to sort of success. Um and we can be an ingredient in that um for some people but for a lot of other games they can go direct to consumer if you have a great game you know build attention anticipation. Um so that's what I think is great about the industry right now is that there are made for pass but also a lot of pressure on teams even on us because there's so many games that really you know want to be in the show and be featured in some way.

Yeah. why you know we have a bunch like we have the game awards event but there's also like there's a day at a devs the day before there's a a wholesome snack like there are a bunch of other event that's happening during the week and hopefully all together people will kind of discover against
yeah we've seen people experiment even though within your show to try and help with that discoverability I I thought the Resident Evil uh uh uh fake out I guess in the summer game fest was pretty fun I even things like Sega announcing I think five games in one trailer last year. Do you get quite a lot of that now? Are you getting a lot of people pitching unique ways of presenting their games on these things?
Yeah. Uh absolutely. And I think you know every like anything people you know naturally want to you know be one of the top three or top five announcements at Game Awards and that's an aspiration. Um so that's why we we talked with a lot of teams about right of you know what's the right way to sort of um show up in the show and we talk a lot about you know showing gameplay not just you know CG

stuff or you know we call hybrid trailers where it's like some you know computer generated three stuff I would say and then some gameplay certain games will have different approaches but yeah we talk about that also to your point like how can you do something that's buzzy and unique inside our show uh but yeah as you said it's a busy Oh, there lots of games um that you know it's always
fascinating to me because you look at like the wish list some things coming out of the show and what's exciting is I think consumers are they're not just wish listing one game they're wish listing 10 or 15 or they are discovering a lot of things in our show. So, I don't think it's a winner takes all approach, but certainly some, you know, marketing people, you know, it's like you got to win, right? And like what which trailer has the most views and, you know, things like that,
like who won E3, who won the game awards.
Always, you know, some analysis and number of articles. So, I mean, look, it's a, you know, you're in the business media. It's like lots of people do these kind of tale of a tapes of, right? You know, the top three trailers of game awards and whatnot. And again, like certain times, you know, they're massive

franchises that are big. I remember a couple years ago we did like Light No Fire. Um that was in 203 I think and that was like blew up on YouTube but that was obviously Hello Games but like kind of the new IP and people going into the show probably would have predicted that was going to be
you know one of the bigger trailers of uh of that year's game awards. So, it's always it's fun for us to look back afterwards and see sort of what becomes most electric out of all the um the games in the show and and some people obviously try to sort of engineer that in a way about you know I mean you wouldn't believe how many conversations we have people about like where they will be in the show and the placements and and and all that type of stuff that just comes from people caring about um how they're how they're represented and again we we it's a great honor for us so people trust us to uh to share their news with the world inside of our show. We have such an amazing team that takes so much care as with how all these games are treated and presented um in the show. So I you know it comes from a good place but yes it's a lot of managements of uh of all the different companies to

make it feels good there.
Are you making any changes this year? Anything what's different about 2025 or is it uh it more of the same?
Yeah, it is. People always ask us uh now like what's the what's the new thing? Um the trai, you know, the core show is is you pretty similar. Um I think I mean it's a new set of games and new set of nominees and whatnot. Um but nothing sort of drastically different. I mean the orchestra will still be there. We'll still be announcing games. We'll still be giving awards and the distribution side. We're doing something cool. We got Prime Video that'll run the show for the first time this year.
It's going to be that
which we're excited about. Um we got cool uh stuff with Spotify on the music side that we'll be talking more about soon. Um, so yeah, I think you know this year it's we had such a successful anniversary show last year did so well. I think we spent a lot of time this year thinking about sort of what are the new the new avenues we can take in terms of sharing sort of the show and the

experience with more people. Prime Video I think is a great example of sort of broadening beyond um just the traditional sort of distribution methods. So that's probably like the biggest sort of news in terms of distribution trying to think of other things that we're doing. But um yeah, generally as you said like the format of it as you said people always debate you know it's a healthy debate right about what the balance is and and again you know one year will be too much one direction one will be too much the other direction and it's it's it's hard to uh to pregame that because we don't really like the show is a show also you know part of the the magic of this show is it's a live event um and you know you don't know what the speeches are going to be or you know
or the moments like you know last year since uh intro to game of the was sort of very prophetic in a way that uh you know then led to you know a lot of people were saying like oh clair of spear that was the game and he was talking about the oracle right and the idea that you know that the game that will you know rise up this year will be you know unexpected unexpected place that's why it's sort of exciting when we

get to the show because you kind of don't know how it's all going to play out and I think the energy of a live show that's one thing we're very passionate about with all of our shows is having a live audience there and and you know the magic of certain, you know, a big room with, you know, you know, thousands of people sitting around reacting to the trailer. You were in the room, I'm not sure. I mean, it's pretty
Yeah,
it's pretty fun and that's something that,
you know, I miss honestly um across the industry like having those sort of big gatherings of of of community and fans and the industry together for such of those moments. So, you hope that you surprise people and and that I think is something that, you know, was really important to to our show.
I being in the audience was quite a different experience to watching at home. I felt like I I I mean it helped that I'm a big 21 pilots fan. I love the Muppets and everyone loves Harrison Ford, right? So I'm you know this was it blew me away in a way that you know perhaps I don't always get from home if I'm being you know the sort of cynical journalist watching things on the screen but it was it was
Mans like I remember last year we did

like the Witcher piece and the CD Project logo showed up.
Oh yeah like you know people there's a report you s feel that online a little bit where you hear some of the sounds there's nothing replaces the magic of of a live event. And so yeah, that's we're like, you know, and it's important for us also to have like a lot of fans there in person, right? I mean, a lot of the other big award shows, other industries don't really have a consumer component to them. And I think for us, you know, the fact that there are a lot of fans there amongst the crowd live, I think really differentiates us from uh some other uh industries and and we love that aspect.
I was going to ask about the Amazon Prime thing, but you answered that question in a way, but you had 154 million live streams last year. I think that was the number. Do you have a goal to beat that every year? Because I don't know how again people always ask us like what's your expectations but honestly we've never maybe it's a fault of ours is we know we don't really think about that. I don't even know how you wrap your head around sort of that and yeah we don't say like our rule is you know 5% growth here or there or anything and here's our tactic. We just honestly make

the best show that we can based on the games that are out there in the year that was in the industry. And and look, I think we benefit from the proliferation of more people streaming content, watching content globally. We've just seen the sort of natural um
increase our team for many years. Like, you know, I'm sure there will be a year when the the numbers go down or stay flat or um we had this big bump in COVID, right? We're almost doubled, I think, from like 40 to 80 or something like that. I remember in 2020 and then after that we we thought, oh, we're, you know, probably going to go back down post good. Um, and it just kept growing. So, we, you know, benefit, I think, from a lot of the international stuff that we're doing.
Yeah, it's more of a thing over here now than I think it was or at least when I remember it.
Well, I mean, it's it's late at night in Europe that people uh stay up and watch it. Um, I saw my Instagram there was like some pub I think somewhere in the UK that's doing like a giveaway watch party really showed up on my feed. Asia's been massive for us. China, India, we're doing a lot there this year with a network called uh Star, which is

kind of an emerging um market for us. So yeah, I mean I think as you said, we're adding more distribution, so that naturally helps sort of um numbers increase to some degree. So it's not always kind of apples to apples, but yeah, generally on like Twitch, YouTube, we've seen pretty consistent growth. But no, to answer your question, we have no expectations. Um, you said the number if it's like if it's down slightly, as long as we made the show that we're proud of and the industry thinks was good, that's much more important. So, that's why I, you know, the benefit that we have is is we can really just focus on the show. Um, we're not promising a certain number or anything like that. It's like, hey, we're just going to do the show that we do and hopefully the audience shows up. That's worked worked well for us for uh for 10 years. So, no, we don't have some target on board or something like that. It's really like, hey, let's let's just break the show we're going to make and uh hope people watch it.
Well, I think one of the challenges I've always picked up that the TGAs have had is um I mean, you kind of nailed it last year with Amir Savat. I thought, well, at least I felt you did, and I appreciate that I'm, you know, biased

and all this, but but um with the game changer award, Amir Savat is the guy that's been supporting people, helping people get jobs at the games industry. It allowed you to address that big difficult challenge the industry is going through. But obviously, the TGA is supposed to be a celebration, right? It's supposed to be a celebration of the year gone and a look ahead of the exciting things to come. You don't want to spend too long talking about the tough things in the industry, but at the same time, I guess there there might be a pressure, responsibility, or a feeling that you might want to reflect that in some way. Um, and I don't know if there's ever a real answer to what you should or shouldn't be doing on that. But I know that people online all have different views and opinions. Yeah, I it's look it's a it's a very difficult needle to thread because as you said on one level um you know it is a celebration of the industry but you know the industry is you know the games are made by incredible developers and as you said it's been a challenging um period of time um to the industry overall. So yeah, I don't have all the answers about sort of the right way to it's also like it's a very real time thing in a way, right, of sort of like what is the state

of the industry um you know as we sort of walk on the stage and and do these shows. But yes, I I thought, you know, what we did for mayor last year was uh you know, I was a great guy and I spent most of the year sort of talking to him and thinking about what what could we do and I thought that was sort of a a great moment that we were able to do and and yes, like we do feel the sort of weight on our shoulders cuz we have this sort of platform, but also are mindful that a lot of people do tune in you because they want to celebrate games, they want to see new games. Um, so yeah, how do we how do we square that is something that I, you know, we don't think a lot about it. I think some people online think that, you know, we're, you know, obligious to it. It's like, no, we're we're definitely thinking about the right way to represent the industry to sort of the wider world and, you know, do we always do it right? No, it's it's a very complex sort of situation to sort of figure out exactly what to do. But yeah, we I I thought the Americ thing was really um special last year and uh it's yeah, it's it's it's it's difficult. I don't uh I don't have all

the answers about how to do it, but um you know, every like we said content wise, everywhere is different. I think same thing with um you know, the show and sort of the tone um of it is different and and you know, in future years will be different too, I think um based on what's happening in the industry.
Yeah. When do you start actually working on the Game Awards? Is it straight after the the first one finishes or is it after the Gamescom show that you do? How does it
Game Awards probably has the the longest ramp of all of them, right? I mean, you know, we're already working on games for next Game Awards now. Things also move between shows, right? Um I think they're always, you know, people like, "Where's that game?" Like, "Oh, well, that game actually just moved to you'd never know that, but it's like that's what happened behind the scenes or something." So, yeah, we we it's a year-long thing. um you know a lot of the work starts I would say probably in the summer uh like after some reest we kind of really dive in deep um with a lot of people but you know we like we know the date for next year's show we have some early planning around kind of what we're going to do um just because

it takes you know almost a full year um to bring a show like that to life and we'll be but we'll be a publishers kind of throughout the year and again because we do a couple shows um you know in June and August we kind of holistically sort of look at the year with companies but you know behind the scenes so much stuff is changing constantly, right? And that's always it's hard when you see stuff on the internet kind of what people, you know, think is happening and that's like well the reality is is is different and things are moving and changing and I think people would be probably a little surprised about how much things do sort of shift around of you know teams not being ready with the game or um something you know moving time period of launch and things like that. um just because you know that's that happens in the industry and uh we're sometimes a part of that right as people kind of uh figure out uh what they're going to do and you know it's obviously even something like you know GTA like you know moving dates or stuff like that right and then obviously has like sort of a domino effect with you know other publishers and kind of what they're going to do and and you know where they're going to put their games and whatnot.
Yeah. Do you get many things change at

11th hour then you suddenly find things drop out or new things come in and yeah there's always stuff that uh I mean you know I guess depends on how you define 11th hour but yeah I mean by now I think we pretty much know what's happening in the show but yeah there have been years where things have uh surprised us and I think there was one year I can't remember a few years ago where there was a game that we were going to do and then I think we got a call like a week before say oh by the way the game's been cancelceled or something.
Oh wow. So it's like, you know, we're as or something. And yeah, I mean, there's definitely stuff there. I always say like, you know, usually October time period is usually something that we probably think is going to happen that um, you know, is maybe just not ready, right? Um and that's the other thing is I think you know games and these trailers are you know artistic expressions in a lot of ways um from you this the best are these developers who really have something and you know maybe the the game play's not quite ready or they're not quite feel they're going to delay the game for 6 months and that sort of means hey we're going to you know move the announcement and and that's the other thing is you know the said before there's no playbook uh you

know so there's always a debate about like is it you know what's the right time to announce a game is it too early is it too late how long should the PR cycle be right I mean I saw that with like with Witcher, people were like, "Oh, CDPR call it which is not going to be there at Game Awards this year." And that was like news because it was there last year, right? And that's sort of like, well, it's obviously, you know, it's not not at the Game Awards this year because they're not ready to show more on it. And, you know, that's some people have the school of thought of, you know, a game should be announced and, you know, ship it 3 months later. Other people are like, hey, it's going to be multiple years of waiting. And that see that's interesting cuz you know last year we had intergalactic and and Witcher sort of big book ends and then uh you know people are wondering sort of like well you know where are they going to show more what's going to happen but then when you don't show things that are further out everyone sort of was like well wait where's the things that are you know
and I don't know
the other the other big game you had was night elder ring night reign which is like what out in the next four months five months it was the opposite end of that
that's the thing is there like uh same thing this year I'm sure we'll show things that are not coming out for I

mean
3 years or something and then there'll be things that are you know coming out very quickly right so um yeah there's no playbook and everything sort of is different and uh yes but that's that leads to some of the changes right because sometimes people you know like does a game need a six-month PR cycle does it need 12 months does it need also as you know the games business they think it's going to be 6 months ends up being 12 months because developer right so there's like you know
yeah um I'm more conscious of the time you've got these tempo events You got three of them in the year. There is a big gap though between the game awards and summer gamefest. Yeah, because you don't have one in Q1. Is there
is anyone ever asking you to put put more into the year? I mean, people have asked us. Um, honestly, I think we're I think we have enough of them right now. Um, and you know, I think it's good for us to take a bit of a break. Um, and I, you know, I'm mindful of the time we ask consumers to sort of watch these things and be a part of them. And then look, I used to do a a weekly show on television, you know, a decade ago, right? And it was like we were doing

things every week for people. Um, I think there's something magical that we sort of do go away and then when we come back, it's going to sort of be, you know, a grouping of a ton of stuff. And look, we're supportive of a lot of other ways to announce games and stuff too. And yeah, I said there'll be things that will need to be announced in
March or April because that's when they need to announce them, but we have that sort of uh that vehicle there. So yeah, there's nothing imminent kind of planned about doing um another one. I think we really like our games now sort of these three and I think it's good for us to take a bit of a break uh than prep for I mean summer dress was really really growing over the past couple years and that's going to we already announced the date for that in June. So we'll sort of be building that one which I think is going to be a really things could change but I think a pretty good one overall. So no uh we're I think we're pretty set on sort of the the slate of things. One of the things about the game awards I think people sometimes don't when I speak to other publishers in the industry they often go you know I'd love to know what what it is what it's going to take for my game to get in the game awards summer game fest whatever is but my response to them is and you correct

me if I'm wrong Jeeoff but it's an element of it's difficult to say because it's curated because it's like you might see a game that looks great but you're like I've got three other similar games in it that's how I imagine it is in reality there is no science there is no
there is no playbook people can play it's just you got to make a great game and then hopefully it fits. that sort of you know what we do is we look at our our team looks at all this stuff and at Truecoin it absolutely is kind of you know the genre the types of games and you know we look at like different genres um across the board even you know think about kind of like the global nature and developing games right and sort of why are we showcasing
I'm not saying by any means that we we do it perfectly because there is sort of you know there's an artistic aspect to it where it is just sort of what are the things we want to do we we also realize that you know role and responsibility we play there and sort of you know it means a lot to people and it's it's always heartbreaking when we say we can't fit in sort of you know certain games that's why I'm I'm supporting all these other avenues and ways to sort of get games

out there because I mean we see like Steam next has you know thousands of games right we do try uh to kind of balance things and and uh you know Yes. So, I think it's and sometimes, you know, people will email us things and sometimes we'll see things and we're just like, "Wow, this is completely unexpected and cool. Let's, you know, roll it into the show." So, uh, we like to sort of surprise ourselves in a lot of ways, right? Because they're the things that we, you know, proactively go out and sort of ask for because we kind of assume they're happening or they're teams that have done great things before. But, you know, what we love is like discovering new teams and new projects. Yeah.
Um, that that sort of no one knows about yet. And and we've done that where we put things on stage. We just believe in the games. I mean, Dispatch was a great example of one I think last year that
I mean, I think they told a bit of their story, but they were sort of kind of not sure what they were going to do. Uh, the game and I saw and I said just we just believe in this. It's just like, let's just put this on our stage. We think it's going to be a great thing. Uh, be a great game and, you know, turned out to be awesome because it it launched that game and, you know, we stories like

that. I'm not saying we always get that right, you know, and then lots of games that like to never die, even Clare Obscure, right? I mean, we didn't anything of that game when it first got announced. Um, and now it's, you know, the most nominated game in Game Awards history. So, um, we don't always sort of bat 1,000. Um, but things that we sort of look at. Um, but yeah, there's that we spend a lot of time looking at projects across the board. Yeah. It's always sad when we have to turn things down, but we just Yeah. function of, you know, it's like curating the group of things that are in the show and it's already a long show as as you and everyone else knows. Um,
yeah. Well, that's that's the thing, right? You always got people. One of the thing I used to, you know, I've run awards that are on a much much much much much much smaller scale, but every after every one people go, "Ah, the awards are too long. Also, can you add these five new awards into the event?" And it's the same or it's the same people saying the same thing. Yeah. You know, it's like uh you're exactly right. And that's uh you know people will say you know present more awards of the show and and
hey it's like the show could get longer but then people want more announcements and yes like we

yeah we understand there will be that debate and that discussion and we also care you know we realize how passionate people are about this because the show does sort of represent their you know their passion point to the wider world um just playing games. So I to, you know, that's why I encourage people to sort of express their opinions um on what they want to see and and what they hope to see in the show. And every year is different. So it's like it's very hard to sort of predict what the reaction will be. And that's why, you know, like we wake up the next morning and we sort of see um how people feel about it. And you know, last year I think people generally like the show the year before people didn't write it. And it's sort of one of those things was like, you know, we're going to show up every year and keep building it with the industry and and uh you know, people don't like something, we we come back again and try and do it better.
Yeah, that's the joy of it, I guess. And it's I guess and I was going to ask a question about the fact that we're heading into this multiplatform future now. Everyone's sort of pushing PC's become such a big thing and you're the multiplatform show, right? You know, and

that's and I guess I don't know. I I'm imagining that's benefiting you in some ways in terms of more people want to be on your show, but also makes it even harder to to make those those choices.
Correct. I mean, I think we've uh yes, we're sort of a platform agnostic show. All our shows are. Um to your point, I think, you know, is Steam for sure. I think the growth especially of Steam and
China or nationally I think has been like really you know big for a lot of and you'll see I mean you you'll see a bunch of games on our show this year that'll be you know I think probably just announcing for Steam and I think they're still figuring out what they're doing console wise and stuff like that. Yes, it's been a benefit that I think we we reach all audiences. I mean even you know even Microsoft publishing across all platforms
and everybody's you know it's like they want to court the PlayStation players and the Steam players more than ever, right? So that's something that I think is uh important and two point all the companies you know probably with the exception Nintendo seem to be sort of you know trying to reach you know other platforms right um with content so yes

that's definitely I think been something that you know doesn't matter what platform a game is coming out for we'll still put it in there um and we have lots of people have we definitely have some exclusive game will probably be in the show as well but yes the the multiplatform uh aspect of the industry I think is is continuing to build and that's something that yeah benefits her.
I'm going to wrap up, Jeff. I've taken up too much of your time, but I mean, I didn't even talk about the nominees, which I guess is kind of like it's an awards. We haven't talked about awards. The
you're feeding the beast and everyone's saying, "Yeah, and the worst thing I actually am really it's it's such a cool year." And that's why I said like every year is unique for us. never get bored away because it's like we don't know what's going to happen and and you know uh this is a year where I think you know the CL obscure I mean the the momentum of that game and you know the the most nominated game uh in the history of the game awards uh is pretty incredible um from you know that studio and and I what I say about that game is you know people I think expected you know probably

expected Donkey Kong would be pretty good or expected that you know would probably do a pretty good game of Death Stranding but you know Clarence Screw I think really was, you know, out of nowhere um for Sandfall, you know, their debut game. I know my worked at UB and other things before, but like as a studio, their debut game, um you know, being that exceptional, being that nominated and having so much momentum from a fan base and that's what I think is, you know, it happened with Olders Gate. It's, you know, there've been other years where there's been a game that I think um you know, the fan, you know, people don't just like a game, I mean, they really, you know, their passion for that gets for it, a particular game. Um, and that's always been uh it's been nice to see that when there's sort of that much sort of energy. Um, look, you as a producer of award show, you want sort of that that, you know, emotion in it, right? Um, you don't want apathy people. You want people to be like, you know, energized about a certain game or a certain thing that you want to see um inside the show. So, yeah, that's been that's been cool. And the the macro trend of, you know, a

lot of independent games uh be up for game of the year. We've had that, you know, past years. We've I remember one year Celeste years ago was nominated for game of the year. I'm sure there been some other indie titles, but yeah, the fact that, you know, those are all um, you know, independent studios up for game of the year also, you know, a lot of them are nominated for rest independent game uh, as well. I think it's emblematic of sort of like the state of the industry. Yeah. And I'm excited about that. There are a lot of these sort of, you know, new teams and I mean, Higgies obviously Super Giant has been incredibly successful. They're independent, but you know, Giggies is uh East 2 is a great game. So, yeah, it's it's it's a it's a cool year that uh there'll be things that didn't get nominated that people will be upset about. Um but generally when we see the list, we were like, "Oh, that that's like a pretty cool list this year that we were I I felt." So, I don't I think generally the reaction this is the reaction of nominees you every year is different right from the the fan communities and whatnot but I think generally this year of course there are always things that are sner people you

know upset about but I think generally I think you know the community seem to think that the overall like nominees were you know relatively solid this year and that's you know the jury that votes on them not us as I have to remind everyone but um it was the yeah I think it's it's going to be an interesting night to see how it all ultimately breaks down
a lot of the innovation industry. It's a lot harder for AAA companies to innovate these days, and it's a lot of the tough is coming from the independent scene. So, yeah, but look, Jeff, thank you so much for your time.
I know it's been a tough year, but I think the stuff you've put out over the last 12 months, look, I'm not remotely impartial. I know that, but I think it's been fantastic, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. We we feel the the weight of what we're doing and uh you know we work so hard um our entire team really all year to uh to try and just do our best to represent the industry and represent uh what we all care so passionately about in the show. So yeah, we it's hard for us as you probably heard me say a couple times to find sort of the right balance between all these things and all

the constituents. So we just try and sort of lead in a way of like what we think is going to be um the best approach and you know we take the feedback in and we try and sort of evolve um every year about what we're doing. So uh we're yes at the beginning like we're going to how do we feel? It's like there's a there's a nervousness always because it's you know you plan all year for this like 2 or 3 hours. um then you know it can go amazingly great or maybe something will be unexpected and and you know not what we want to see happen or like it's just like it's it's it's a roller coaster ride every year. Um but generally we're pretty excited I think about what we're going to bring to people. Um but uh he said I I've learned not to say anything because the minute I say something about like how many announcements are this is like becomes some headline. So we're just going to say hope everyone enjoys the Well, I'm looking forward to it and I hope it goes well.
Fist.
That's it for today's episode of the Game Business Show. Our next episode

will be on Friday this week, not Thursday, and that's because of well, the Game Awards. Uh, so do join us for that. If you want to make sure you don't miss it, simply visit the game business.com and subscribe to us through there. That's it from me until next time. Thank you for tuning in. What is your most memorable video game reveal at your event or others?
Oh, wow. Um, I'd probably say the Elder Ring gameplay reveal at Summer GameFest 2021. [music] I think that was pretty special. We've been waiting for it. We've all been going through co and that was like a very special mullet for me.
What is your favorite album of all time? Lake and Park, the Collision Course EP with them and Jay-Z, which uh I listened to basically daily in like the the mid200s. If you could do one other job in the video game industry, what would it be?
Well, you people always ask me like, do I ever want to make a game? I don't really have that energy. I really like

editing trailers. Like every year I do a uh like I'm actually editing right now like our Game Awards uh kind of hype reel. So, I think it might be fun if I wasn't doing this big. It'd be like a trailer ender.
Oh, wow. What is the most influential movie you've ever seen?
When I was a kid, I love Back to the Future. That was a movie that just sort of like really kind of captured my imagination. I guess you could say the wizard if people remember that. I was like influential. That was the Fred Savior is like a Nintendo champion. Um, I mean, maybe it's a way that influenced me or something, but yeah, I Back to Future was like I never had the virtual Back to Future poster and it was so crazy because in co we had Christopher Lloyd play Doc Brown again and we did this thing for a game called Surgeon Simulator 2 and he was like a spokesperson for it. We had him actually on Gamescom and live which was crazy for me. But yes, I'd say Back to the Future.
Okay, last question. If you could have one person on your stage that you've never had before, who would it be?
Well, we've never had Miiamoto on stage at Games. getting him out there. So, it would be awesome.