Understanding what the market wants - Stuart Dinsey from Curve Games

[Music] [Music] We are now joined by Stuart Dinsy, the executive chairman of Curve Games. Stuart, how are you doing today? I'm very good, James. Uh, very good indeed. Great to join you here. Not quite as uh as intimate as we were looking for, but we will we will push on nonetheless. Now, can I get you to just introduce yourself and your role at Curve Games and how you work with Exola? Uh, yeah, I'm the executive chairman of Curve. So, um, I'm kind of in charge, I guess. Um, help make sure that we do things right. Curve is an indie games publisher. We've been around about 12 years. Um, we've had hits like Human Fall Flat, for the King series, Bomber Crew, The Ascent. So, we're one of the small to middlesized British games publishers. Gotcha. And you've partnered up with

Exola. Is this an a worldwide thing or is this in specific regions? Over the over the past 12 months, we have started rolling out um Exola web stores for our some of our top games. So, I think we're on our way to having 10 games with their own Exola micro sites. We like um we like the idea of being able to take payments in different countries that maybe it's more difficult to use a credit card on on the more um established platforms and we like the idea of being able to to if we can uh in addition to our traditional games platforms being able to go direct to consumer learn a little bit about our audience. Well that's interesting. I talked to Exola I think last year about that and also in London the idea that they're looking towards these web stores these direct to consumer uh pathways which previously have you know you've either had to use one of the large app stores and those were your only options um unless you were a Fortnite or something which throws up its own thing but this is starting to appear more and more and more for individual games. How

important is that direct to consumer pathway for you? I think for us it's um it's it's a long-term issue for us. So we I believe in distribution. So I want I want to make sure that we're reaching as many different corners of the world, different types of consumer as possible. We've got lots of fantastic partners. Um this is something where we're going to learn as we go along. We've never done it before. Um we know that over time it could become more important. They're very uh they're very easy to work with. Um but we see it as a long-term play. Okay. Okay. And the Mino region itself, which is, you know, where we were just a week or so ago, um why is that region proving attractive to folks like yourselves, indie developers as well as the big kind of publishers and devs? I think it's it's a similar thing. It's we're all looking for for new opportunities. So, um the market is uh has been um become more difficult for most of us over the past two or three

years. So anywhere that we think um well there's stuff going on over there and I'm not in it um I'm going to want us to explore. So that can be in terms of distribution but that can also be in terms of presence in a region and um there is a desire in the region to raise their profile. That's why you're seeing more games events there. There's a there's a growth in the number of indie developers. Um and so we want to get to know the market, get to know those companies and see if there's you know that maybe the next human full flat will come out of that region. We don't know the moment that region is only about 1 and a half% of our business. Um if we understand what that market wants, we might be able to to increase that. We've just been acquired by an Indian games company called Nazara and there is a there is an absolute boom in uh game development in India. Um, and this isn't um game development as work for hire. This is game developers creating IP.

We're incredibly excited about that. But we're also excited about some of the developers that we've met who are from uh from places like Dubai, Saudi Arabia because we never know what the consumer is going to get excited by. So we have to be talking to that. Well, that brings us on to if you're an indie developer or a developer who's used to working for example in the west or maybe in the east or in China and you're looking into the main region. Do different rules apply? Are there specific like trends or or player behaviors that exist in that region that you know need to be catered to? I think that's the challenge really is to is to figure out what the um consumer preferences might be or even how to tap into cultural differences with types of games that would that would mean that would be attractive to to the people that live there because really what we've been doing if you think about it is we've been taking western games into a completely different corner of the world and expecting them to understand those western values and those western game

experiences. And it may well be that the the next big success in the region will be from a game that understands the region. And there's no reason why we shouldn't as a global publisher be looking at how we could still do that because in the age of digital we don't have to worry about stock and distribution and shops. We can um we can get there directly with with the digital options that are in front of us. Um I think it's also worth saying that it's a much bigger mobile orientated meeting. We've just been bought by Nazara and Nazara are largely a mobile games company. So there's reasons why Curve were having a look around certain places in in recent months. That makes sense. And presumably the monetization factors into that change of tactic as well because we've talked to lots of people in the region and even simple things like not everybody has a credit card for example, the payment methods are different over there. Do you have to factor that in as well? Absolutely. And

that's and and that is one of the things that um I'm not technical, but what I do know is Axola have have built their business out of um payment systems and offering consumers lots of different ways to pay through different credit cards whereas on some platforms there might be like half a dozen preferred credit cards. So again, that is something that if that helps you reach new players, you have to investigate. It doesn't mean it's any criticism of how we currently do things with others. We're very happy with everybody we do business with, but we we really like new business and presumably that means making partnerships. So when you've you know paired up with Exola, which is obviously a large sort of global company, do they help you make inroads in the local in the region? So they already have connections that are there or is it a case of you building and then just working with them? I think they've got an impressive impressively global perspective. There are companies that are very keen to have a presence and and raise their profile in in uh in certain

territories like like Dubai and to see what there is there. We we were attracted by working with Exola on a trip there but also by uh by the Dubai Expo Summit. So I if if everybody goes there at the same time, it makes the economies of scale are there for you because you're going to you're going to meet lots of people. If there's a a gathering, we want to be in that gathering. And if there's a movement, which there might well be in in the development scene or um cultural games perhaps, we want to be aware of what's happening. Well, you mentioned the Dungeons of Hintterberg in the when you talking about the games that you developed and you collaborated with Exola for the launch and that one has a web shop incorporated as well, if I'm if I'm right in saying. Yeah, it was it was our f it's the first time we've done it. It was um Okay. It's a it's a test. Dungeons of Hintterburg has been a fantastic success for us on Steam and on on Xbox. It was a it was a it was a new title for us and we felt again it's that kind of extending distribution seeing

what it's like to work with Exola. They said they would build the site. Um um and that's that was the beginning of the relationship really. And am I right thinking that you're director the Stevenage FC club, right? The football club. I am. I am the Stevenage FC. The mighty Stevenage FC. Fantastic. And now, how long have you been a director for? Is that like an ongoing passion project or is it recent? I've been a director for about 12 years. Okay. So, ongoing. I I'm originally a Stevenish boy. And uh like Lewis Hamilton. Um and unlike Lewis Hamilton, I'm proud of where I'm from. Oh, shade. So, uh I decided to see if I could do anything to support what is a fantastic club. They support community as all football clubs and and sports clubs do around the country. Um and um yes it's it's a really fun some some people play golf some people um buy a boat. Football club is my thing. Nice. And you were able to bring Exor into

that as well. So they're now are they supporting or sponsoring the club. Is that the idea? Well yeah they they were really excited by what happened last summer. We're league one, which is like the division below championship, and then you've got league. Um, and there was a fantastic new deal with Sky last summer where Sky uh increased the amount of of TV for lower league games. as a football club, if you can demonstrate that your reach is growing through all the different types of of channels, not just TV, but obviously YouTube and social media, because we knew each other, um they they they saw an opportunity uh to with a football club um and they've had um lots of phone calls from other football clubs since. Finally, what regions do you see as the kind of big opportunities for indie game publishing? We've already seen um a significant um evolution in terms of the Chinese games market and how not so long ago the West companies were were fixated

on how do I sell my games in China? How do I do that and do I do that um with an ISBN or with not? You know, sometimes China would give you licenses, sometimes they wouldn't. But actually, there's been a growth of independent um game developers in China and publishers in China. And we're seeing a lot of Chinese games now being very successful in the Western market. So we're already seeing that not just sort of acquiring Western businesses, but actually bringing their games. And I think with that that sort of um mix of games for everyone wherever they're made is a really important point. And that's what um MENA wants to happen. any region that has been traditionally um an emerging territory at some point would like to to um spurt out global successes whether that be a company or an IP with digital that's going to happen. It just will happen. Well, we look forward to seeing what Curve is working on the future and hope Stevenish has a good season. Yeah. Thank

you very much. So why good story you Stuart? Excellent. Cheers, James. [Music]