Colossal Order's Mariina Hallikainen on leaving Paradox and life after Cities: Skylines

the other founders were were developers. So I think I brought very much this outsider perspective of of uh what the game development should be in [clears throat] a real company. It's not a hobby project. It's not it's not uh the the type of work that we want to do 24/7, but we actually want to build a business. [music] Hello everyone and welcome back to In the Hot Seat. Now today I am so excited to be joined by my next guest who is in fact actually a PGC Nordic speaker in just over a month. She's run the same studio for 17 years. She's the CEO of Colossal Order since it was founded in temporary Finland in 2009 and has led the team behind the iconic City Skyline franchise. Marina, so good to have you. Welcome to the show.
Thank you. So it's good to be here.
Now we have much much to get into and I have many questions to ask you. Before we do that, Marina, for those who don't know you, do you mind just giving a little bit of an introduction as to who you are and what your role looks like?

Absolutely. So, so basically running Colossal Order uh as the CEO is is my is my title, but um of course uh the job entails me basically um doing my best to enable the team to do their best. So what we do is uh we create uh simulation games for PC and um we have a great team of 28 people here in Dere and uh it's uh it's uh I love my job to be honest and we're we're making nice games and it's a it's just a short introduction there. Yeah, interesting stuff. Now Marina, you let's address you know the big piece of news first. So you you officially parted ways with Paradox in November of 2025, ending a collaboration on the City Skyline franchise. Now that means 15 years, four games, and one publisher. Looking back at that Paradox uh partnership now, what do you what do you think you're proudest of of what you've achieved?
I think it was the long-term

collaboration. I think we had a great working relationship with Paradox. Um we really appreciated that they gave us a chance when we were just a very very small studio back in uh uh in the in the day working on very niche game. So so basically the first title was was a mess trans simulator. So, we really appreciate Paradox taking a chance on us and um it's it's something that the absolute proudest moment was that when when we um actually got to work on City Skylines and that was really a dream game for us and uh to to launch it to such a huge success was just an an amazing thing for us.
Yeah, it's been a it's been a massive feat and what a fantastic game. So when did it become clear to you Marina that the next chapter for colossal order was something other than cities? When was that moment where you thought well it's time for something new now?
I mean obviously we worked on the on the title for more than 10 years. Uh it's a very very long time and just our like

aspiration for what we wanted to do as a company started to divert from from what we were working on uh with with with Paradox. So it was really a natural kind of point. We had basically basically we got uh the sequel out uh and uh and we are still working on it for for the duration of time that that um was a couple of years after after the launch to get the get the features in that we wanted. And uh as we saw that this work was kind of coming to an end, we had to make the decision that if we if we actually want to continue working on on this for for another 10 years or do something else. And uh I think for us as a team and as a company, it's a very natural point uh to to start something new. So it was kind of something that was was slowly building. We're thinking uh considering weighing our options and then um it was it just the the time just felt right at that point.
Right. And you mentioned this a little bit before, Marina, but you signed with

Paradox as an unknown studio in 2010. What would you want from a publisher now? Obviously, you're more experienced now. You've had a you've had a studio and a franchise that's massively successful. Is it the same list as what you'd be looking for then and now? Or what's changed?
Obviously, a lot has changed. Colossal Order is now now a known studio. We we have the funding and the backing um that we don't need the publisher support in the same way as we used to. So, so the situation for us has has changed drastically. Um, what what we absolutely want is is to focus on uh creating the games that we love and we think our audience will love and that will still remain the the focus point of what we're doing. But when it comes to the publishing side of things, when when we take the money aside that we don't need the publisher to fund uh the development, um that those are services that we can we have basically options for. So either self-publishing or or

finding a partner that will handle the the publishing side, but it's something that what we really appreciate in in any partners is is collaboration, uh open communication, trust. So those values are very very important to us regardless of what type of partnership we're we're in.
Interesting stuff. Now, City Skyline has tens of thousands of workshop items. So this is a question that I thought was quite interesting. So, what does City Skylons 2 teach you about serving people who actually want to take your game apart? I mean, they're quite a enthusiastic bunch of players.
Absolutely. The best kind of players. So, so we actually learned uh back in the day with CDs in Motion, our first game, that uh modding is a huge thing for these types of games and it was something that we absolutely want to support in the future as well. So to have that opportunity for the players to to truly engage uh share knowledge with the with other players in in the community um kind of leave their own mark in the game. I think it's very very

important important for the players is important for us. So we definitely saw it with City Skylines especially um that just to give as much options for for the players for selfexpression as much as possible is is the way to go. Definitely. Now I want to ask you, Marina, you've been obviously CEO since 2009 and without, unless I'm wrong, without being a developer yourself. So what does that sort of unique vantage point give you and what do you think you sort of learned along the way?
Well, I was I [laughter] was truly truly a kind of outsider from the from the game industry when when I joined this uh this company. So I was a 23 year old student of automation technology. So So
Oh my god, I didn't know that. Exactly. So, so I did not plan for for a career in the in game development for sure, but it's something that we we had the the other founders were were developers. So, I think I brought very much this outsider perspective of of uh

what the game development should be in a real company. It's not a hobby project. It's not it's not uh the the type of work that we want to do 247, but we actually want to build a business. And um that was something that very from from the beginning we focused on like how can we actually create a a game studio that where where we can actually work on games that we love but also is profitable and and we can we can build upon that. So so that was I think the strength that I brought to the team
[clears throat]
uh to just think about the business side. Was it out of curiosity, was when you came into this, was there a lot that you had to learn in terms of how the sort of back end of the game works? Like was it sort of a learning process for you? I'd be so because you weren't even in the industry at all. So I'd be interested to know.
So what I started with was basically just talking to to all the professionals in in Finland. Like we we had already back then uh excellent great studios here in Finland and and the the people

are very very uh kind and open to share their knowledge. So, so talking talking with people from the likes of Housemark Remedy, uh, Red Links, just the just the big studios and and also the smaller ones. So that to understand like how do you work? How did you get there where you're now? Do you have any tips, any kind of like knowledge that you want to share and I spent significant amount of time just talking to people and understanding how the industry works and then what we tried to do was to find the best bits that would work in our situation. So there was uh for example conversation basically um investment versus um publishers etc. And everyone has their own opinions and then we just had to take that information and and uh use it to our advantage and it was really a lot of learning to do uh for for me personally and it we were small young studio so so just to find the kind of um our own path and uh it's it's definitely still some I'm I'm still

learning I think that's the that's the whole key in this industry is that it's ever evolving and and all the time we have to be open to new information.
Definitely. Now, Colossal Order has only ever made simulation games for PC. You guys are entering this sort of new moment in time for you. Is that still the definition of the studio or is that now up for discussion?
Uh, it's absolutely what we want to do. So, simulation games is something that we're extremely passionate about and we are very knowledgeable on. So, so what we want to do is is basically take this well now 17 years of experience and and build something new, a new title uh in in the genre.
And about a third of your team came from abroad. Now, this is a question that I think is interesting to the Nordics in general. And you've previously said that high level talent is a challenge for the whole Finnish industry. What's hiring into temporary like in 2026? So, so I think the uh competition in in Finland especially

is is quite fierce because uh when we talk about the the different projects and different different game companies, our budgets uh differ quite significantly. So, so what we we are offering is is long-term projects, maybe not the best pay, but basically basically a great environment to work in. But when we think about the kind of global scene, uh the problem is that Dumbra is a very very small place in out out in in the middle of nowhere basically. So so for us uh there there's a actually a funny nuance that it's actually easier for us to uh get experienced uh developers to join from abroad than for example from Helsinki. So, so if the person is willing to already relocate then then it is something that um we can we can um see as an advantage that someone would want to even consider to to uh relocate to Dere but um for example within Finland the the hiring is

much uh more difficult nowadays of course we have the option of remote work etc. So it's not as uh difficult now but what we do try to do is is uh all the key employees are located in damper and and working from the office so that we can make sure that the communication is is uh working as it should etc.
I love that you guys have stayed sort of like you said in this remoteish area in Fidland. What's the logic behind staying there? Is it just because you have your roots there or is it you know what's your what what are your thoughts? cuz it's interesting. You you never you don't quite hear about stories of studios remaining in sort of a small area.
Well, I think it's a it's what what factors in is that when we started the the company, we were um basically students. Uh so we didn't not all of us were from here. So we didn't actually have roots in Dumbra as as such. But as the time grew, people uh you know founded families uh then when the kids go to school in some some place, it it like relocating starts to be a really difficult thing. And we have been fortunate that we have been able to find talented people to join the company. We

have 30% of of our personnel from abroad. So, so we have been successful in in recruiting talent uh here. It has not been easy, but uh I think what we're doing here at Colossal Order is is unique uh to the so so if someone actually wants to work on simulation games, they tend to like the idea of working at Colossal Order. So that's an advantage uh in the in the recruiting process for us.
Definitely. Now you're which we're so excited for. You're speaking at PGC Nordics in just over a month. Now you're speaking to a room full of people in a industry that is so dynamic and in a region that is equal parts indies and giants. Now what's the thing that you want the Nordic industry to hear most from you right now? What's the message that you want to get out there? I think I want to convey the message of optimism in a sense that uh I will be talking about uh market opportunity and uh it's something that I do believe that there's a huge amount of um uh opportunities for for in this and the giants uh just

thinking about like how can we actually uh reach the audience because there are m like different different uh player types there are smaller and bigger audiences and it's all about just finding the one that you can cater to and building upon that.
Love that and we can't wait for that. So with all that being said, Marina, you guys have just parted with uh Paradox in 2025 November. What comes next for you guys? What is are there any exciting pieces of news you can share? What's in the pipeline?
So unfortunately I will not be sharing what we are uh specifically what we're working on now, but I can share that we are working on a new title. So, so we're very very excited uh about it and we will be sharing um what it is later in time, but it's not time yet. Okay. We Well, we can't wait to hear. Marina, thank you so much and we can't wait to welcome you to PGC Nordics very soon.
Thank you so much, Miam.