Tokenomics #6 The Bored Apes $450M Pitch Deck for an MMO

[Music] another episode of the tokenomics podcast i am here with anton bachman principal at play ventures hello hello mishka katkov the ceo of savage game studio well hello again i don't know how i got how i get like caressed to do these every second but you're here you're the cipher for the audience and it's me it's me uh ethan levy executive producer at uh network uh today on episode number six we're talking about ftx we're talking about com to us's play to earn platform we're talking about nft university and most importantly we're talking about the leaped leaked yugolabs board8 yacht club fundraising deck all of this and more on episode number

six of the tokenomics podcast all right the the main topic today is the board apes who i i realize i i frequently freudian slip is the bay area yacht club so hopefully i won't do that in today's episode the uh board 8 yacht club the big new actually there was a lot of big news out of you labs and and board apes um over the past week or two um the the main topic of conversation is going to be a deck a fundraising deck that was leaked that uh anton you shared with me on uh twitter and uh i i've saved a copy for easier than twitter consumption uh if anybody wants it just reach out on slack but we're gonna talk mainly about that deck and about the the metaverse ambitions of uh yugolab um so i should go ahead tweet that you shared you had leaked the deck

got it yes correct there was a tweet you're not leaking the deck we're not leaking there is a deck that has been shared on twitter and if you would like the link to that twitter thread just let us know but it should be easy enough to uh to google it um let me just set the stage here a little bit for the conversation so uh board ape uh yacht club has made a number of moves in the gaming space or gaming adjacent over the past couple weeks i think we're all familiar with board ape as the blue chip um nft collection uh the great flipping happened sometime last year where board 8 became the number one uh valued nft collection overtaking crypto punks um here's some of the headlines kind of leading up to um this other side teaser the other day so last year board 8 yacht club and animoka brands joined forces to make blockchain nft games so last year at some point it was

announced that they were teaming up with you know the 800 pound gorilla in the space animoka brands who seems to have their their fingers in every single pie uh to to add some utility to the board apes and and bring uh some form of nft gaming uh to them um la was it last week or two weeks ago very recently uh board ape yacht club dropped the eight coin token to its nft holders and some people made tens of thousands of dollars and hours by immediately selling their ape tokens but uh or a coin apecoin is kind of a component of the forthcoming board ape yacht club uh metaverse ecosystem uh another story is that they then uh in in a move in their partnership with animoka uh uh released a benji bananas nft and that sold out and if you own the

benji bananas nft it allows you to play an animoka brands legacy hyper casual game called benji bananas as a play to earn game to earn the apecoin so repurposing of a game that's already on the market kind of similar to what animoka's done with their crazy tower defense games and their tower token and then uh just the other day also yuga labs the owner of board 8 yacht club released a teaser trailer for other side which is the metaverse mentioned in the deck it looks like and uh yeah i think that kind of sets this oh and and also of course yugo labs acquired the intellectual property rights to crypto punks and me bits so they're kind of now the holders of probably of some of the biggest uh nft collections in the world at this point and that all kind of positions them with their token and their brands

for this metaverse play that was um uh in this pitch deck that was leaked uh i'll just say i found on the internet before we start talking that on on the uh board 8 discord a member of the team said that's an old outdated pitch deck and hilariously a version that neither gordon or i ever saw there are a lot of things in there that have already changed and plenty more things that will change because [ __ ] doing expected things so that was the uh the statement so you know not i we all know what it's like to see a work in progress deck and i'm sure things have changed but it feels like there was a lot of true information and strategy and and at least things they're considering in that deck so that was a lot of scene setting i think did that um kind of set the picture for where board apes is going uh before we start talking about the deck specifically yeah just uh since finish finish things tend

to get mentioned on this podcast so i think it's worth mentioning that both both benji bananas and the other animoka brands repub repurposed game crazy defense heroes originally come from from turko finland-based studios that were acquired by animoka a few years ago so they're clearly putting these putting these ips too it's a good use here um and um regarding the the acquisition of of crypto punks by by hugo labs it's probably one of the probably the biggest to date in the nft space considering kind of get increasing that one one of the parties increasing the the ip portfolio the the idea also for the users that they wanted to bring was giving giving better commercial rights to individual owners of these nfts and they could start have more freedom around monetizing them but um an important caveat here to remember is that if you look if you look at that announcement a bit closer uh they're not extending full copyrights

to the owners of these nfds but they are there are are allowing increased increased commercial rights uh to the to these to these holders yeah i think that's that's one of the really interesting parts is that oh sorry um people own their they if you hold the nft you have commercial rights to that specific board ape or mutant ape right so like i believe some uh holders are starting a band a guerrilla style virtual band using their board apes and they're represented by some big power hollywood agency i think i saw somebody as opening a fast food burger restaurant with their ape and just like if you own an ape you can use it um commercially which is pretty interesting and as anton said they're expanding that to uh crypto punks and me bits in some ways

do you you don't do you own a board ape or a crypto punk were you in early enough nope nope i've i've been to i've been too busy focused on the d5 tokens these crypto function and and uh the board apes kind of slip through my fingers there but um but well yeah let's see let's see what comes what will come along yeah i i have to say like i'm i'm coming on this like way behind you guys right so when i look at this it's like the first thing that i think about is like what the [ __ ] is going on like i'll be actually 100 honest and i bet 99 are doing the same even 99.9 because what i'm looking at is like a low quality gpag a picture of an ape with various like a really poor tag skins on it you know it looks like out of a game that my five-year-old plays and um i don't know like it's just funny that this is like considered like a premiere bluetooth yeah this is this is a luxury

this is the luxury brand some of the celebrities that own board apes include justin bieber serena williams jimmy fallon and shaq can't be wrong cuban and i i i like like listen um what what this is about is that that it's a it's a small members access only digital community yeah and in order to get in you have to pay an exorbitant amount of money yeah and it's boosted by celebrities of course and it's boosted by the fact that the uh the market has been overheated and the value of blockchain has been going up um just as as you know uh as an investment and it has been going up as of late as well like the uh i think the floor price is about 300k in dollars so that's just you know looking from from from the uh from the side of it this is an a highly highly exclusive hard to get in digital

community that costs a lot of money but doesn't have that big of a following in the real world and we're going to talk about it later yeah yeah i think in in the deck they they make it clear or it you know in the alleged deck i guess it could be a forgery but it seems to be it's claimed that it's not a forgery it's just outdated but um that they want to broaden their brand outside of just the holders of this high-end luxury nft good and that their gaming ambition is a big part of that um to widen it out with new nfts like land and these new what are they called cubits or codas which is a new nft they're dropping but then uh you know plans to build a bigger game and a bigger metaverse that we assume probably wouldn't require an nft to access and be available then to millions of players that's kind of what i read into the strategy is that they view

gaming as the lens through which to bring in the world to the board ape yacht club yeah i think i think the mistress comment um i think that's precisely what what the product is right now i think it's but i think it's fair to say that that product actually works to some extent uh to this point by selling that kind of digital community which is which is sort of very variegated uh in in in a sense uh and um and that's i think if we look at the revenue slide from the deck uh that's been quite clear for them that that actually works from at least for the moment but i think i think time will tell how sustainable that kind of core product uh on on itself or in itself uh will be when it comes to when we're looking at the deck and and their future ambitions in terms of kind of building a virtual world and and building games it's um it's uh it's interesting to read it

because it's all it feels almost like you see these founders and the team taking kind of a full turn and realize wait a minute it's it's games all along that has been kind of the preferred medium of of of engage of engaging in uh uh in a 3d world and um i think we can we can dive dive into this this specific part also a bit a bit deeper in a moment but um but it's it's um it's an interesting challenge when uh when when thinking of who is the core audience of of of these um boarded images i would assume it's a fairly wide group of people also despite that all of them are united by kind of the interest towards owning these uh the boarded jpegs but um but are they actually gamers i don't know they're the core audience of who own these jpegs do they are they interested in owning them because of potential utility because of access or because of the uh the collective thought that

the value will go up uh and and they primarily own them as as investments but um but yeah looking at their ambitions with the with the mmo i think i think we have we have some opinions on that i i i have to be honest i i mean this is i want this to be later in the discussion but it almost befuddles me why they would even want to raise venture capital because in in the deck they've done a ton of revenue they have the eight coin out eight points 24 hour trading volume was over a billion dollars right now so from from my vantage point right vc has a lot of advantages to it but also once you accept vc money you are basically making a commitment to some form of exit right uh play ventures doesn't invest in in a studio or in a project out of the goodness of its heart it's part of an investment strategy to

make a 10x or 100x return on investment and now that they have the eight coin i mean if i were them i would just sell one percent of the 24 hour trading volume every day into fiat until i reached however much money of fiat i was trying to raise and then you have a lifestyle business with all the funding you need to build your world of warcraft competitor and you can make the choices that you think are right regardless of whether you think they end up in you selling to microsoft or listing on the new york stock exchange like i actually don't quite understand why go after vc when from my vantage point they have all the power and ability to raise all the money they need from the public yeah it's um i think from from my point of view i would it it it can't be about the money uh in this case they i think they are able to as you mentioned they raise that either through new primary sales of new collections of

nts they're going to do land sales and looking at other land sales from from other virtual worlds previously they've done really well on that front so so i don't think i don't think capital raising as i mentioned is going to be a concern for these people uh or this team um some sort of reasons i can think of if obviously if the founders they don't come from gaming they don't have team members from gaming uh and necessarily don't have the experience to recruit people from the industry and start building internal studios for for for a production uh but this is likely likely a way for them to feel affiliated themselves with vcs that that could potentially help them legitimacy and connections exactly uh do you guys mind if we just go through the deck first because a lot of people have yeah of course sorry if i can run people with my my own perception which is uh most likely not

controversial to most listeners but controversial to everybody who's deep into tokenomics uh so so um just you know looking at it like the first the first page is always the founders like who these are and etc in this case look there are just pictures of abort apes which makes sense of course but these founders don't even have names just twitter handles like you know you don't have to they have two presidents two co-presidents not ceos two presidents on a company of 46 people um clearly they don't need the the extra vc money for for themselves because they're probably all these secondaries and token sales and whatever has been happening here uh the nft sales have have um have made them mighty wealthy so that they don't have to do the the day-to-day job and they don't even have to do the strategic job they're kind of doing like half strategic job so basically like a co-president not undermining their work or anything

just saying that it's kind of weird on a company of 46 to have two co-presidents the company yes as i said 46 people they plan to revolutionize not only gaming that would be easy easy but also street easy but also streetwear of course uh and events which you know i would have started maybe with events and then going into the street they've they've done events and yes there's a great article um i read about it about one of their events in new york um that basically made a metaphor that board ape yacht club is closest to a streetwear brand out of anything and that article actually helped me really understand board 8 yacht club and the appeal um and so i feel like supreme what supreme yeah like like supreme exactly and so i mean i feel like those um since they've already done the really hard part of building a lifestyle luxury

streetwear brand like that seems to me almost uh luck plus easy compare compared to the aspiration of revolutionizing gaming and building the singular metaverse which is just impossible um i mean i i think it's kind of personally i think it's a fool's errand anyways but even if their ambitions were just to build a world of warcraft competitor and not the number one interoperable um metaverse it's it's a really hard task that takes hundreds of people five years to do so let me let me take the listeners into the point of like where does this gaming come from so in this presentation which is done like i can only imagine that they have um i don't know they have a couple of adult beverages well while doing this this uh this deck because it's uh it's tongue-in-cheek dropping it yeah yeah at best so it's 80 pages also it's like you know that's a lot for for the content that is

uh non-existent uh mostly so they're racing so they talk about the race towards the metaverse you know with the likes of microsoft roblox and even walmart and of course meta there's zero context what metaverse is in their opinion just the word should be enough to understand it's not technology it's not anything it's kind of everything okay it goes with all the craziness regarding the metaverse and the cringiness from images from ready player one to matrix uh they have good call outs though there's they they talk about the uh the fact that a virtual social hub ain't gonna cut it as a metaverse in long term and of course pointing at meta and that metaphor meta verses are creating boring [ __ ] which i 100 percent agree and i mean if you look at no offense to meta but if they look you look at their metaverse presentation with those with those avatars like it's just it just looks so boring it's just like the stuff that meta put out is just it's

incredibly boring uh but uh but anyways or or boring or just straight up impossible like in that video where where you see the uh this is from the uh the meta announcement uh when somebody's like scrolling on instagram and they see like meaning like this has to be today or tomorrow so they're scrolling on their iphone and they see a rock concert and they tap on it if people haven't seen it they tap on the rock concert and in the instagram and acts like hey do you want to join your friend in this story at the rock concert they're like yes i do and the hologram of this person who was scrolling the the instagram appears in the event and they're like having all this fun with a physical and a hologram together then they get like an nft ticket inside this concert and then they go later into this lame ass second second world but it's just like it's it's like it's like lame impossible and sad all at the same time oh i thought you were uh describing my deconstructor of fun miami pitch deck i think this goes back back quite a lot to one of the things we discussed

earlier in one of the one of the earlier episodes of the podcast that um and also very visible in the kinds of pitches that we see is that there's a bunch of people that necessarily or most most often don't come from gaming uh and not pitching the idea of these virtual worlds which is all obvious some something also that some executives at the various tech companies have also picked up uh the narrative around those um but then if we look at these kind of rudimentary just plain 3d social hangouts uh there's not a ton of engagement happening in these i think if we look at the ones that are existing now in uh in the in the crypto space which would be crypto box souls decentraland there's really no kind of hook in itself that would bring these users to come back on a daily basis and if you look at the the activity of what's happening on the central line this almost as mentioned previously it's fully almost um happening in case of what decentral games is doing and they're building

games in this central land and and that's where they're creating the engagement also looking at i mean if we look at fortnite and and their obviously their big conferences as a part of their liveops strategy um now this is just a guess but i'm not sure if users would come or start start using become fortnite users just to attend these virtual concerts but it's more of a an additional engagement tool monetization so for the players that come there pr gameplay itself and obviously we're looking at it from we're looking at it from a specific lens from a gaming lens because um i think that's the world that that we understand but but um i think when it comes to also to crypto the virtual worlds that will utilize on chain elements uh are probably going to be the ones that there's an in there's kind of a there's a hook there's a quarter loop why people would come in there and then and social the social graph that is born out and the social aspects of those worlds are much the ripple effect of players coming

together doing shared goals uh etc and but these i i'm not too uh bullish on these um just blank 3d social workers that want to capitalize on the social elements i think there needs to be exactly those user bases i agree i that was something that really stood out to me about this deck is that it it kind of presumes that any viewer is bought into the idea that the metaverse is a thing and you know i have i have a couple different opinions on it and one of them is that uh we have discord that's the closest thing to this version of the metaverse and that the convenience of it being on text and on your phone is what player is what users want right discord allows you to form ad hoc social communities around any concept you want and share them easily with people and we have that and until we're actually all wearing ar glasses that work in the real

world we don't need we will never will let's let's hope right because we're going to have them implanted directly in our head once that happens then i'm interested in a 3d virtual hangout space but like to me contact lenses um but like the second life 2.0 which is kind of this deck kind of says everybody's doing second life 2.0 but they're doing it wrong and we're going to do it right with interoperable nfts and and i don't think that's a it's not going to be fun and people aren't going to show up for it the the thing that surprises me like if i were trying to pitch a metaverse pitch to you anton and play ventures i would say there is a generation that has low purchasing power right now they are the roblox generation and roblox is where they hang out once they get to college and enter the workforce they're going to have extreme purchasing power

and this is the type of experience they're going to want as they get older therefore i'm building this for the roblox users when they turn 2022 start getting full-time jobs and move out of the roblox age range right that's the metaverse play that's like a strategy i could understand and if you backed and and i think the heart you'd have to make an argument for why that's not just fortnite um but yeah that that to me is a very tangible strategy whereas i feel like anybody who's just basically saying 3d hangout space second life 2.0 like i don't think i think second life is a very niche product and a rec room or those type of well rec room well so i got to get cameron on to talk rec room on twit because you guys bash him all the time he gave me my first internship uh in gaming and i think rec room has a lot of user generated experiences like there are games to play in rec room and it's a younger

focused thing it's like a roblox competitor like younger kids hang out in vr or into you know on their phones and play nerf gun fights and put on theater and like there's more it's there's a ugc component where i think it's a roblox competitor that one specifically and it's and i i agree it's definitely that audience that you want to be building for i think also looking at non-crypto projects as well there's there's a bunch of platforms that are trying to build for this older audience and thinking that when when the initial roblox players get older they they somehow graduate more mature platforms right but that's actually not that's actually not what what's happening you're looking at roblox and and they're kind of timeline on how the fidelity has improved of the assets on the platform it's actually if you look at that timeline it's improving quite a lot all the time and the the average age of the roblox gamer is also increasing so so the roblox they aren't they aren't exiting the platform the platform actually growing with those users uh but i think it's definitely the

user you want to cater for they don't they're not super interested or not all of them super interested in like triple a high quality games there's a lot of low poly uh uh voxel graphics that are interesting because they work from a ugc perspective uh really well but and also thinking of virtual worlds with with on chain elements that's the audience that i would i would sort of focus on and see how that as mentioned the purchase power increases and these are and these are also users that have grown up with ugc platforms and virtual worlds they didn't grow up with single-player narrative games on on console and um and but and then if you extend that a bit and look at the hardcore mmo audience uh and and my best guess is that that's probably not the best match with nfts also currently given that it's um it's an audience that is hostile to any any new monetization model of games but there's likely going to be a subset of those users as well

so there are some people that play pokemon forever and some people who grad who grew up with pokemon and still play pokemon but they also play persona for instance as another monster collector more adult game when when you guys read this deck and their ambitions of building a metaverse and having a slide that's like world of warcraft apex legends cs go like each one of these games takes tens to hundreds of experts multiple years to build right and they're just like gaming and then we're gonna build a metaverse do you feel like we're looking at 38 studios all over again like someone who just imagines that because they have celebrity and money that building an online virtual world is easy and they're just gonna sink millions of dollars into this no actually not and i think the this is the strength of these companies that don't have the gaming background is because they don't have people there who think that high production values is a

must and that and every next iteration has to be with a higher production values and we always have to reinvent the wheel and do everything better because this is how it has always been done these are people who just make something quick and put it out there and you could see it with axe infinity you can see with every single crypto game that they're kind of shitty because they're not meant for gamers they're meant for a totally different audience and when you look at this when you look at the um the concepts for their game for the land and the codas yeah for the land they look good enough they look like they've been outsourced uh for any 2d capable studio out there with you know freedom to roam and draw anything so so the quality the the quality expected is extremely low and i understand that there's the technical aspect behind it with all the uh the elements out there but i don't think they will have a hard time building it like a good enough game team

doesn't have to be experienced uh with economy designers with the help of of any of these blockchain gaming platforms or you know the fortes of the world um partnering up with them they can build this any day it's a light rpg with extremely high monetization of of of the uh of the land sales and and these um what were they called the uh codas right yeah like these random items yeah i i agree that actually the their ability to generate financial success is divorced from the quality of whatever virtual world they put out like they're going to print money with dakotas they've already printed they've printed money with the apecoin they're going to print money with the land sale like they they have the luxury brand right now and they're going to make a lot of money from people and and my question is like what's going to happen when the game arrives and if it's underwhelming i think the game is going to be 100

percent underwhelming right i think from a perspective of a game developer and a gamer but is it going to be good enough for this audience i think it could be because on the other hand they have released a couple of games like there was well the the hide and seek game that i don't really understand that wasn't the arg thing that was like a live stream yeah yeah but but there was but there was another one it was like the apes versus monsters or something like that they made a game and that game had yeah apes versus mutants um that game had 30 000 lifetime players i think that was the other number so one thing when i see these numbers and they were posting their instagram numbers and twitter numbers and they're like hundreds of thousands when i look at them like they're drinking their own kool-aid hard like they think they're so [ __ ] big because in their own world their own world is is ape [ __ ] like everything is about this and and you know for them it is all about this but when if you tell me that i'm doing an

mmo because my first game that i just released it was a little indie game i made but uh my first game dude 30 000 installs 30 000. think about it right so now i'm just gonna go in and make an mmo in a day you mean you did thirty thousand a day oh like can you imagine thirty five that's like a small pound dude that's a lot my uh html5 flash game i mean uh hmo5 indie art game that i made uh eight nine years ago has has more players than that probably yeah so so so so it's it's a it's a little bit weird kind of like i understand it because in the cr there's not a lot of people in in this nft crypto scene like it seems like it because we're talking about it and because because the revenue numbers are so big yeah because of the revenue numbers but this is not a big thing in terms of people it's not like even if every company invests into right now and says this is the next big thing it's not now it's just like vr just like ar like we have to be very clear about it so i i i well i'll just assume

right yeah lance says they had like 100 000 uh land lands to sell so it's pretty small but it's already three times larger than their game that was really powerful and they even had quotes there that somebody tweeted that i've been playing apes versus mutants all night it's like what the [ __ ] is this yeah the one i'll disagree i mean obviously i've i've pivoted my whole career to crypto gaming right now of course you have to be bullish about it i i don't think this is the same as vr and ar because vr and ar is a hardware change that's kind of like driven by our fantasy of what we want to happen and it it feels very top down to me that the tech just isn't there yet whereas like this is a bottoms up thing business model change that is driven by players and new creators that um i i see in my in my mind i see the story of how this completely eats the freedom uh free-to-play game industry

as it becomes easier to use and the you know lower friction more common day-to-day and higher quality experiences like of course given the option of two equally accessible experiences where if i have one shooter where i can buy guns and i can sell them to other people because i own them and i have one where i can buy guns and do nothing with them i'm going to play the one where i can sell my secondary goods and maybe some portions you're very bullish about this and i i get it and and i'm not bullish about that i think they will and that's going to bring us we're not going back to this let's let's talk about let's talk about this one thing and and the only thing i want to say like the only thing i want to say about this this this product positioning that's it is that a board ape yacht club is not that big in terms of the audience like yes they put in like justin bieber has two of

these gpegs great but if your game is being played by 30 000 players all time what are we talking about like the audience is small and and i think the audience on this game whatever they put out is going to be really small but they i think they're going to make gazillion bucks because they have proven that they have been able to sustain their value with their nfts and associating this with a brand extension or another you know a game where you get these i always forget i don't even remember the meeks or whatever the second version it's just like is this like uh like the cheaper version like if this is a bugatti is this like a porsche of that so so um so i think it is gonna make crazy money but but just the reading this deck and getting their perspective that they think that this is like everybody in the world wants to have this jpeg of an ape and then seeing the actual numbers that are really low like even if your instagram is like 600 600k

an average instagram model will murder you like like like easily all day and not even talking about like the the rocks of the world with like 100 million followers so so it's just that like there's this disparity of of viewing themselves as the hottest thing ever because the vcs love you because all the corporations about talking about it and because you have the celebrities to the real real real real world where most people have no idea what this is i think you're you're a bit on the same track as um as i'm thinking of this but i'm gonna explain kind of my my point of view on this yeah now again i want to have an optimistic look on on what's happening in the space but looking at this specific uh endeavor from uh from yugo labs i think you're right mishka in a sense that it's both a blessing and a curse for the team that they don't necessarily or we're just speculating they might not kind of know what what the highest standards of game development are and what their end product is going to be i think they have a very very specific

sort of idea of what they think sort of a great game is and i i've seen this specifically when visiting a bunch of crypto conferences and gaming conferences during the uh during the past years and up even still even though crypto is a lot talked about subject in gaming gaming is a very popular subject in crypto these two worlds rarely actually talk to each other uh in a way so at a crypto conference the gaming content is very different from what the crypto content is on a gaming conference and they're both kind of i think asking more or less the wrong question still on both sides so there's still quite a lot of work to be done to really have these worlds uh intersect in a proper way my concern with now these the yoga labs are going after such an ambitious and big project as an mmo or a meta rpg as they were we're calling it themselves uh is that obviously setting up high expectations recruiting a lot of people potentially ending up in a situation where they really don't know what

they're doing the project keeps stalling the timelines get extended we already saw this with star atlas where where i think it's still questionable how many of the team have actually worked on or the core members have worked on large games previously and already they already pushed their timelines uh further into the future but but hey they they said that hey we're going to come up with a minigame and um i think that's going to be a more common solution with this project going forward that they they kind of realize at some point okay this is quite ambitious we need to downscale a bit uh and then at some point it's going to look really bad for for these companies if they really can't deliver on the on these promises i mean at the end of the day like 3d mmos on on pc with with deep systems it's not going to be a walk in the park for for many of these teams so um kind of the final my kind of final take there is that i'm not i'm quite bullish on on board

apes as a as an nft collection and kind of the stuff they're doing on the really exclusive community side of things they clearly have a product that resonates with with the people that has revenue-wise made really well for the company but i'm not so sure whether they should pivot to become a game developer or a publisher i think they should double down on their strengths uh focusing on building because they're one of the first kind of digital native lifestyle brands current that only have digital products that the company itself releases and really kind of try to capitalize on and have their the owners of the board apes make this thing bigger uh than itself i don't think game development is the right or at least for the moment i'm not sure if game development is the right way for for these projects to go forward but they have something they have a core product that resonates uh and they should double down on figuring out how to make that thing bigger because again i'm not sure if these board a boners are actually hard for mmo gamers themselves and uh with 10 000 people you're not

going to make a big game anyway now obviously the eight coin the part of the the part of the pitch of the eighth chord was also to extend the border community and feel and and give the feeling to more people and users they would also be a part of this community and i mean if if there is ever going to be a game it's likely not going to be gated to people who only own blue chip nft project than a thesis right you yeah i don't know if you guys saw the trailer i think eva you saw the trailer yeah the other side trailer so um there were kind of sneak peeks of cool cats and crypto punks also be part of part of that universe but we'll have to we'll have to talk about interoperability in the future and uh because i i think that's a whole own episode yeah we did with the uh lady ready player me we did the in top intro i can't even pronounce that word but that was that was the episode so if folks want to kind of go back yeah but actually i want to point out on on the anton's point of on the of the game like

you have to kind of go back into into what board the apes is about and what i mentioned in the beginning it's a it's an exclusive digital club highly highly exclusive for super wealthy and and and the celebrity and people who want to associate with them this whole presentation the whole deck was about how to take it to the masses and i think that's a big brand risk as well because the whole idea was to be exclusive like only few of us get to do like if somebody has a board ape that person is minted like they have money and it's nice to be in that kind of a community for the people who have money as soon as it becomes widely open for everybody there's just going to be another born ape another exclusive community like not everybody should have a ferrari and ferrari is not trying to make cars for everybody it just makes people who can afford for our and even if you can't afford ferrari guess what in order for you to buy a ferrari you have to buy like those who already have a ferrari can buy the ferrari before you

so it's just it's all about keeping your super wealthy club small and exclusive and i think most of this presentation was everything against exclusivity right so i think uh uh it feels like our tokenomics conclusion is sort of building mmos is really hard for one don't underestimate how hard it is uh two if you have a luxury brand played your strengths of being a luxury brand don't try and go from luxury to everyone that seems to be diluting it and three we've we believe that the tactics mentioned here around the nft sales and land sales in the apecoin are going to make a gazillion dollars no matter what so we're super jealous of yuga labs on their success that they are already have with apecoin and the benji's banana pass and everything they're doing you know they're doing something right

for all our doubts of of their ability to build a full-scale interoperable mmo actually on that final note they're doing something right because they're making so much money that's a fallacy you can make a lot of money but not doing the right thing they are they're successful uh and if they're successful and if they'd like to tell me about designing an apecoin powered action rpg or similar just just reach out anyways that was our uh our yugo labs talk let's close it out with the new hotness uh mishka any any nfts or tokens yet i don't so i was talking to my buddy um i'm not gonna mention uh so he's cons like he's deep into the center he has he has an ape he has an ape um he said this to me and i was like i didn't even know what to reply we were just texting yesterday so um he said that he can hook me up

with bro if you need that alpha i got you i don't even know so my my reply was that i feel beta even asking what i mean i'm talking about yeah you need to step up your game yeah what what was that sentence what does it mean that means he's offering you a proprietary information that'll make your performance okay okay well i i need that alpha then right you can send if you have some alpha for mishka and you've worked in the games industry for five years or more please join the deconstructor of fun slack and then you can send it to him anton any new nfts are difficult event in istanbul is going to be pure alpha yeah pure alpha it's going to be pure alpha and and um and then we're starting a new nft it's called jacked gorillas no it's like bored but just

no juice head gorillas oh my just uh done my usual stacking of of course defy stuff got it let's do some some more nft stuff after this well i couldn't resist in in honor of the topic i did get some eight coin i've got you know nine or ten eight point now you know i had i had i bet on the winners i got some apecoin so no you're a part of the community yeah exactly so this was a lot of fun thanks guys and don't forget if you're uh looking to join the hottest nft oh look a baby if you're looking to join the hottest blockchain gaming company around and want to work with your third favorite tokenomics podcast host check out network.com i've got a bunch of job openings alright thanks guys

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