CD Projekt Red: "Nintendo’s audience is different to what it used to be"

We did find a new audience of people who we might not necessarily reach if it wasn't for the for the Switch. Do not underestimate the physical edition. Nintendo players are very receptive or like, you know, appreciative of physical editions and done [Music] right. Hello and welcome to the Game Business Show with me, Christopher Ding, your guide to what's going on in the global video game business. We've been covering the Nintendo Switch 2 quite a bit on our shows over the last month. And we're now we're now just over a month away from the console hitting store shelves. And one of the most interesting elements about the Switch 2 is the sheer amount of third party support he's getting from AAA game developers. We've had Final Fantasy 7 remake, Elder Ring, Borderlands 4, Project 007, Hitman Street Fighter 6, Star Wars Outlaws. There's some really big games in there. But one game that is getting a lot of the headlines and it's one of the console launch titles actually is CD Project Cyberpunk 2077. Cyber Punk was a game that is a technically challenging title. The game very much struggled at least at the

beginning on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. But here it is running on Switch 2 and I've played it and it's doing a pretty good job. So, I was very eager to chat with the developer CD Project about the game, uh, why they wanted to do it, and I'm delighted to have with us today, uh, Jan Rosner, who is our V is the VP of business development at the studio. Hello, Yan. Welcome to the show. Hello, Chris. Thanks so much for having me. Have you been on the road with the game? Have you have you been one of the people that's been doing the Switch more? Uh, a little bit. No, not not not me personally. I mean, I've only visited Par the Paris event, which was super cool. I also got to experience some other titles. But yes, we have been present on pretty much I think every show so far uh which which Nintendo organized in every event where you know consumers get their head done with the game. Yeah, I was uh I saw it in London um and I was very eager to to give that one a go. Have you been paying attention to the reaction? Oh yeah. What have you heard? What's people been telling you? Well, you know, so far so good. We are really, you know, happy with the with the reception so far. I'm personally seeing the sentiment which I was quite hoping for so that it really feels like

Cyberpunk on the go and you know people who have played it uh you know outside CDPR were I think quite happy with what they saw. It is also a you know a first for us because we have never launched a game together with a with a console. We're very curious how it's going to go but we remain I think hopefully optimistic. So that's cool. Yeah. I guess that puts that puts a bit of pressure on because you've got a deadline, right? You you know the other things you can say we can push it back a bit or we can work with our own timelines, but you really want to get there. And I think it is a bit of a from a obviously the hero title was Mario Kart from Nintendo's point of view, but I think from a third party point of view and an industry point of view, seeing what a game like Cyberpunk can do on that machine is is I think crucial to the platform even if you know on top of that. So that I guess there's a getting a game ready for launch. It has certain challenges to it that um it absolutely you know did to some extent of course we were we aware of the timeline where where the when the game has to be ready. Uh of course you know we wanted to make sure that it feels and plays right and it feels also organic to the platform. So when you know every pretty much everything was checked and then we just

decided to uh to give it a go and then you know we're very happy that that it's actually going to ship put together with a with a console. certainly going to be one of my launch games. But let's go back a little bit because Nintendo's audience is it's a different one, right? It's it's not it's not necessarily the ones that you get on PlayStation or Xbox or Steam, which is where your games typically do best. It's sort of the home for for Witcher and and Cyber Punk. So, what attracted you to Switch to what what why were you keen to get on board so early? Well, I I would dare to say that, you know, Nintendo audience is growing and it's it's it's it's broadening and I think it's quite a bit different from from what it used to be even even a few years ago. And I think Nintendo is also realizing that and we have seen like a big number of titles being announced on the Nintendo Switch to Direct, which you would maybe not initially like, you know, immediately think of when it comes to like just shipping on a platform like Switch. With that said, you know, we have also had a very cool experience with the Witcher 3 or the Switcher on Nintendo Switch, the original one. And there's absolutely we do feel there's and we actually do know that there's an appetite for big open

world AAA you know RPGs which you would normally expect to be released on on PC and consoles and it very much fulfills like even to me personally it really fulfills the fantasy of of playing such a game on the go. You are not tied to you know big PC rig but I can actually take it on the go without any you know major compromises to to to the game itself. I personally can't wait to to play like cyber and many other games which which I already managed to play a little bit in on the Paris event. Okay, I'm jumping a little bit ahead. I was planning. Let's talk about The Witcher 3 because here's a question. Did you find the audience on Switch, the first Switch, was it a completely new audience that you were reaching players you weren't reaching before, you had even touched a Witcher game before? Yeah. Did you find it actually existing Witcher players who just like the idea of having a version of the game that they could just play on the go? Yeah, of course. So you know we were I remember you know those conversations back in like a few years back that's we actually wondering you know if there will be like a audience for for this kind of game on the on the platform which is Nintendo Switch back then and which which we then consider like a typical you know

Nintendo Nintendo audience luckily like the the the idea of you know playing the game on the go like that and then I remember that you know even holding it for the first time like both of Cyberpunk it really made us I think realize that there absolutely should be an audience like this even back then we could I think see that the Nintendo is growing as a whole and there are more, you know, mature gamers also, you know, entering the Nintendo ecosystem and it's proven to be successful. I mean, there's The Witcher 3 back in the day was one of the first, I think, games of this kind to be released on Switch One and it's for us at least, it's like sort of a precedent that there's absolutely an appetite in the world for for games like this on the on the platform and this Switch is so much more, you know, than just above Yeah. her spark dag. So, but did you find that actually some the reason why I asked this question is I interviewed the civilization team last year. Sure. And I talked about Civilization 7 and they said Civilization 6, their previous game, they found that a lot of people that were playing it on Switch were people that already had the game on PC. They had this scenario where they said, "Oh,

people just want to play this game on the go." That's right. And so I was wondering if you had that same phenomena with with Witches. Yes, I I do believe that. I mean, absolutely yes. uh you know especially like you know with with cross progression I mean you can pretty much pick the game where you left off on the on the PC and console but it is absolutely we did find find a new audience of people who we may not necessarily reach if it wasn't for the for the Switch. Okay. So people you know who are looking forward to to play the games on the go absolutely a new and a new for the Wish as well. And I guess I don't know this is all hypothetical right now but obviously cuz there's Steam Deck right? So, I guess if you are somebody that had the game on PC and you want to play it on the go, you've already got an option there. That's right. Do you think that might change what you've got with Cyberpunk? I'd say that um I know I I'm not sure if I would consider Steam Deck like even almost a separate platform like Switch 2, right? Switch 2 is an entirely platform on its own which is not an extension to anything else. And then Steam Deck, as much as I know I love the device, but it

feels sometimes like an extension to know to existing PC audience and like the PC enthusiasts. While uh Switch 2 has a has old audience, it's very big, it's super successful. I mean, the Switch one has, you know, sold in many many many millions of copies worldwide. And I think this allows developers like us to to tap into that audience and then to to pretty much reach the entire player base. So, so yes, the appeal is definitely reaching new audiences. Absolutely. Rather than just satisfying um giving giving your existing audience I know that's part of the benefit, but it's maybe not the focus. Yeah. Well, let's talk about Switcher a little bit. What excites you most about what it's capable of doing? I would generally say that uh I would maybe start with the performance. I mean it really felt like a really big performance leap when it compared to Switch One. And then what what this will allow to many many developers out there is to bring the games to the platform and maybe also consider their usually AAA games to be released day one on Switch 2 as well. And I think that we're going to see more and more third party titles to be released on on the platform which we may

not necessarily expect on switch one even back in the day. The previous generation has proven to be so successful and then there is so many say there's so many more players to be reached with that that I think that performance will will surely allow it and I think performance is that Cyberpunk 2077 is a nice example of that uh uh that you can you know shift the game which is considered to be super demanding on you know PC and consoles which which plays very well on the on the go and using that hardware. On a personal hand, I really like the all the platform specific features. The mouse control, for example, was uh is something I I was quite blown away with. It is a smaller the device and it's smaller mouse, but it really struck me struck me how accurate it is and I could actually use it on any surface. I know I've played a bunch of games using that piece of hardware and that was super cool. So, so I think we even with Cyber Fox 27, we decided that we know we want to take advantage of as many plat specific features as as possible. So, you don't have any Mario hats though, do you? Or no, but I did try the like the the Metroids the Metroid game which is uh

like plays extremely well. It's really something else. What amazed me about the mouse aiming was the fact that I was I could switch between normal controls. Yes, it was seamless. Yes, it was seamless. Very cool. So, so uh this was really something I wish I wish more games will bring in the in the future to the the platform. I think there's definitely room for an accessory company to create like a cradle for it because it did work very well, but it could do everything a little chunkier. So, I think just a little bit of plastic to stick over the top would would would make the difference. I mean, I probably play in handheld mode, so I probably won't experience it quite that often, but I was also quite impressed with that functionality. So, so has getting the game working effectively on Switch 2 was it how easy was that? Well, you know, it's a it's never easy. I mean, of course, you know, it's a it is a I want to say, you know, we did like major compromise, god forbid, but first of all, we wanted to make sure that the games feels organic to the platform and then, you know, it's not just, you know, simple one to one port from from PC or or or console. We did have to put some optimization into it, of course, and

then make sure that it also plays well on a smaller screen. But I I dare to say it, you know, it was not a like a gigantic effort whatsoever. you know that thanks to the increased performance we actually managed to play the game fairly soon after we decided to to give it a go and then you know the rest was like history and then we we spend a fair amount of time on making sure that it plays very well developing you know platform specific features again which hopefully will arise at a very good experience for the players they want I was sort of expecting it to be more like a maybe a port of the PS4 the Xbox One version but the fact that the expansions in there cuz that was never on the old machine so it that's right it was clearly a much bigger job than I'd necess necessarily assumed it would be before before going to play the thing the part of the game in Phantom Liberty already because I think that that was a part of the of the non experience as well that you can already say that it's that it's it's playing nicely. So So yeah, but like putting everything in one package and providing you know as much value as possible like you know 300 plus hours hopefully experience for many players is was a goal from the from the get- go. when Cyberpunk first launched.

I think it's fair to say that CD Project took a reputational hit at the time um because it didn't work as great on on consoles. You've since iterated, you've updated the game countless times. It works very well today on on all platforms. You've turned the situation around. You I argue that you you know reputationally sort of back on a much stronger footing. So, were you wary of the potential risk you were taking of trying to get Cyber Punk running on a on less powerful hardware again? Uh well I'd say that uh um we are absolutely looking at it. We uh again we wanted to make sure that it plays right. I mean if if if it were I think it would it would be apparent from the like very early on that it's for example is not is not capable of running the game of this scale. Uh but then of course there is also a matter of you know doing some compromises here and there but we would never like you know uh at this point we would never make a compromise which would uh hurt the artistic vision behind the game just has to feel right. So that's why you know we upon some finetuning on the on the dev side and

making sure that it's this runs well. I think there's always a thinking in the back of their head that you know if people are going to really compare it to and expect the PC level of performance but I think it's also again with with our even with our wisher 3 experience players in general are uh I don't say quite forgiving but understanding of of platforms performance limitations and they tend to not maybe expect like you know PC rig path racing kind of experience which they which they are used to on the most capable platforms out there. It is a big AAA RPG on the go. uh we want to make sure that it you know we can play it from start to finish like without making any major compromises and I think we we've managed to do just that. So but of course the player the players will judge in the in the end. It seems like you learned a lot though from that Witcher 3 experience in terms of what of what what works and and what players are willing to accept and also what they like about it. Was there any particular lesson from The Witcher 3 that's influenced Cyberpunk? I'd say there were there were quite a few. So, so you know I've already touched on the on the audience and how we feel the appetite for such games is out there.

There were quite a few things which we already took into consideration the the cartridge being one of them. So very early on we wanted to make sure that the game sits on the cartridge so that there is no additional downloads required. It's just a more or less plug and play experience unless you have to download some additional language packs from the Nintendo eHop. But otherwise it's we wanted to make sure that it's actually feels uh again like a plug and play experience. Otherwise, of course, you know, as like like I mentioned before, it's never just a oneto one port from from like, you know, PS5, PS4 or or anything else. You have to make some additional effort to to make sure that the game feels uh and plays well on the on the console this size. And I don't just mean like, you know, mouse mouse aiming to work or gyroscope aiming, but also, for example, making the text a little bigger so that it feels right on the on the smaller screen and whatnot. So, so yeah, just just to make sure that it feels right on the on the platforms. quite a lot of learnings from from what we did on the on the Witcher 3 and we have we've applied them here as well. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You're becoming handheld experts. I I don't think we we are there yet, but I think, you know, we

are learning on the go, I'd say. Again, you know, it's it's a first for us to launch a game together with a console, but I think we're we're getting there. I guess Nintendo's put put his arms around you. they've taken you on on on tour and stuff, but have you had a lot of uh you you must have done had a lot of interaction and engagement with Nintendo on this one? They are awesome partners. I mean, we have, you know, we we admittedly were working with them uh very early on on the console and how you know if we can bring the if we can bring Cyberpunk to the platform. Of course, you know, I cannot give you specifics, but but but they were super supportive from the uh from the start. They were quite amazed with even early builds of the game. Like I said, we are just a month away from the conso's launch and they've been super supportive. You know, we have been present on every and every event and we are super super lucky to have them as partners. That's great. Yeah. Well, you mentioned it yourself, but one of the big conversations on for switch to at least on social media at the I mean there's lots of conversations um and you shouldn't always listen to all of them, but but uh particularly when it comes to third party developers is using of these key cards rather than

putting the whole game on a cartridge. you are one of the exceptions, one of the few exceptions actually who's managed to squeeze the game onto a physical car. You mentioned that it was important you you learned that that you needed to do that. Why why was that important? Uh well, you know, we try to look at those things as as as players ourselves sometimes especially I think that was a big learning from Switch original Switch when you know the of course the memory the memory was was uh was way lower than I think than than it is right now uh with Switch 2. But then again the the game like Witcher 3 would I think take up to 80% of your internal memory if you don't have a external memory card. In this case I think you know the additional download is like you know maybe unnecessary step which you would need to take it of course is possible and but for many it's an additional hassle and just the plug-andplay experience is I think is a is a really cool thing we wanted to do. We've already seen from the uh from the original Switch and the Witcher 3 that players in Nintendo only is quite receptive to that. Uh and then it's actually resonated with them very well. So it was again a goal which we wanted

to to achieve fairly early on. I think on Switch when it comes to at launch anyway when a goo game launches up to 80% of a game sales could be the physical version of the game and I think and unlike which is the opposite on Xbox and and not quite the opposite on PlayStation. Yes. Yes. But a lot more significantly different. Absolutely. But obviously those cartridges aren't cheap and they've got so many third party developers that are not doing it. Yeah. you're not thinking maybe you could have got away with it done a download only you know so it's not a it's not a matter of you know getting away with something it's what felt you mentioned but you know Nintendo in physical and as retail is still quite strong and I think retail is in general not maybe not going anywhere I don't think we'll will soon experience a reality where we're just having all games digital and then no no retail space you know we are known to deliver quite rich physical editions of our games you know we likely will include like an extra goodie physical goodie or with with the phys physical edition of Cyber Punks. But again, I think it's especially important for for Nintendo audio because there are so many

games also available again with with uh with retail edition. Yes, we maybe we could have gone away with it, but is there a point? The right thing to do was to was to have it out on the cartridge with a plug-and-play experience. It certainly seems to have been a bit of a this makes it sound very corporate, but a bit of a PR win. Anyway, fans seem to be certainly very grateful that you've done that and um and so yeah, looks like the right choice. Thanks. I don't have too many other questions, but CD Project is known for pushing the technical barriers for its games, right? His games are often always on the cutting edge, sometimes to its detriment, but it's always it's always um always sort of cutting edge visuals, incredible performance. But younger audiences today, you know, they're into Roblox. They seem a little bit less bothered by that. And then you've got things like Switch 2, which obviously isn't isn't PlayStation 5. It isn't top end PCs. You've got lower end PCs, obviously. You got the Xbox Series S. But considering all that has that, this is more of a general broader question. Sure. Has that influenced a little bit how CD Project thinks about games going forward? You know, is it we need to be

mindful of the fact that that there is this now spectrum of players from absolutely our biggest titles are, you know, of course mature. So, so we are targeting like we say brother the gym more you know mature audiences anyway. But we're absolutely mindful that, you know, players who will play our future titles are, you know, entering the gaming space right now and they have to be sort of introduced maybe to the IPs as early as possible. But with that said, you know, the growth is massive. And then of course we uh we do think that I'd say that you know the the you have to make sure that for example in Nintendo's case maybe it's not about just providing the open world experience but also it's pushing the hardware to the limit and make sure that it does not feel like a compromised version of anything and then people who are used to uh play on on Nintendo like their first party titles and then maybe all of a sudden they will discover Cyberpunk or the Witcher, right? Because they usually would not get to do that because they don't own a PC or they have like a bigger console. So to answer your question, I think that it is absolutely important even though our games are rated you know or like meant for mature audiences we have to be absolutely mindful that you know those players in

just a few short few years from now will become major players and then we have to like you know uh push ourselves also to introduce the IP to them as early as possible and then uh we don't do that with just games you know we try to you know make additional efforts on the whole franchise and the flywheel and then how we did that for example cyber punkage runners uh we know we are doing a lot on the on the board game side like you or comic books, whatnot, just to make sure that there is many mediums where we can touch on those broader broader audiences which are maybe not even necessarily gamers, right? I mean those people those people will be introduced to the IPs and then the video games should be at the center of it but we are not just competing with other games at this point. So you know it's about entertainment and your time uh and how those players and those those people like younger audiences are spending their free time. So so we have to make sure to be there. with uh the conversation about the battle for time. I often say like your competition isn't just, you know, you've got you're launching on June 5th with a load of big Nintendo games, but what's coming out of the cinema and what's on Netflix that

week, right? And you're competing on all fronts and and you talked about here's the thing for me. Um I've got The Witcher 3 on Xbox. But I'm a dad of two young children and and I don't get too much time to play these things on screen. The Cyber Punk is a great example. was a game I've probably only done about 5 hours of. The fact that it's now on I mean I never I don't have a Steam Deck. The fact that it's now on Switch 2 means great. I loved what I played of those 5 hours and I now will have a chance because it's flexible. It fits into my life. It does. I don't need TV time to play it. Yes. Is a wonderful sort of opportunity for me to play these um things. And I am a hardcore game. Right. So, same story here. I travel quite a lot. Uh, and then I purposely waited for the Switch to to come out to to catch up with my Switch One backlog because I spend quite a lot of time on the plane and then this is the my you know playing on the go fantasy and I know there will be titles which I did not for example have time to experience on the TV or like a PC which I will be able to now play like know on a play for example. So that's very cool. Elder Ring for all the games that they've

announced. I mean, they I I mean, I've played a chunk of them, but not not finished them or certainly not played them as much as I'd like. So, it's very exciting to me. Is it This is where I'm expecting your your PR person to pull you off the screen. Um, so is it possible we might see C CD Project again on Switch 2 in the future? First, well, there's nothing to announce or speak to because even even if we had something planned, you know, I cannot tell you right now. But what I can tell you is that we will surely be looking at the platform. I'm expecting it to share at least the similar level of success as switch one. Maybe at some point we'll we'll be there with with in the future again. You know, it's impossible to ignore is what I can tell you. And then of course you know we have a big AAA you know games on the on the way but there's nothing nothing yet and the biggest focus right now is to you know develop them and make them available to the players but of course the switch to will surely remain at the the center of our focus as well. Well, I will hold put fingers crossed

for Witcher 4 on switch, but I thought I'd at least try and ask. Uh, I think that's all I've got in terms of questions. Thank you um, Yan for being part of the show today and and really good luck with uh, with the launch. It's really really a pleasure to be here and um, yeah, appreciate the Thank you. That's all we have time for today. For those watching or listening to the show, you can see all of our Switch 2 coverage and indeed all of our feature topics and interviews on the game.com. If you go there and put in your email address, you'll make sure you'll never miss an episode, never miss a newsletter or feature or story. And most importantly, it's all free. So, please do that. Uh, until next time, thank you for tuning in. Favorite Nintendo game? Super Mario 64. Can't argue with that. Yeah. What is the Switch 2 feature that excites you the most? Mouse aiming. Do you mostly play Switch in handheld mode, do mode, or tabletop mode? Handheld. I don't think anyone's going to say tabletop. Um, excluding Cyberpunk and excluding Nintendo first party games, which Switch

2 title are you most interested in playing? Elen Wink. Will Switch 2 out sell Switch One? I hope so. What is your Mario Kart character of choice? Oh, Wario or Mario as we call it. If you could give one piece of advice to a developer or publisher looking to work on Switch 2, what would it be? Do not underestimate the physical edition. Nintendo players are very receptive or like, you know, appreciative of physical editions they've done, right? Brilliant. Poetic. Couldn't have said it better.