Assassin’s Creed creator Patrice Désilets: “I have two or three games left”

This week we are at [music] Gamescom in Cologne. We're going to be speaking to Patrice Desle, the Assassin's Creed Legend, about his new game 1666 Amsterdam. We're going to be catching up Raccoon [music] Logic about their new game, a hockey title, and CD Project Get Physical. [music] Hello and welcome to the Game Business Show. This week's edition is sponsored by Exola and Keyword Studios. Keywords is of course the major service provider for the video game industry which helps studios make their games, release their games, and then sort of maintain them afterwards. They've got 13,000 staff in 26 countries who all specialists in all sorts of different areas. That includes marketing. Keywords marketing services are shaped around players, community, and culture. They offer audience insight, campaign strategy, global creative activation, and loads more. or the folks at Keywords help studios reach fans in a way that's designed to be relevant, timely, and built around how they'd actually discover, share, and engage with games. You can find out more on the Keywords website or in the newsletter attached with this show.

Speaking of which, let's get back to it. It is our Gamescom special. And the big trend of the show, and you've probably seen other journalists talk about it already, is the sheer number of games and companies from Southeast Asia, specifically China. Just take a look at the games that were announced at opening night live which our our friend Jeff Keelley uh hosted. So you had Hoever showed noticeful a mature RPG that looks quite different from games like Genchin Impact which they're famous for. Other Chinese games include Anata an open world city-based action game. You had Tides of Annihilation set in a ruined London. Co-op action game Zupunk World War II shooter the Defiant and kind of this bonkers game called Showa American Story set in a post-apocalyptic world where Japan has bought out the United States. There were others Monster Hunter Outlanders, Silver Palace, Roko Kingdom, Petite Planet, Sea of Remnants, Once Human Animo, and Jenny Gods NA. That was all just at opening night live. And it wasn't just China either. During opening night live, Korea was there in a big way. There was Terrare the Unbound and

Project Zita from Craftton. Craftton also showed PUBG deadNet although to be fair that is being developed in the US. NC had ion 2 like or dice in the city. Pear abyss showed Crimson Desert enhanced. So there's a lot of career stuff. I also noted we saw an ambitious AAA game announced from NBC Game Studios called 101 Freds of Misan. NBC Game Studios is formed by Saudi Arabian broadcaster NBC. So Saudi Arabia are here with a big ambitious project as well. So, lots and lots of stuff from quite different markets. But outside of the Chinese and the Korean games, um the big company making the most noise at Gamescom 2026, at least in my view, is CD Project Red. The Polish developer showed it upcoming DLC for The Witcher 3 called Songs of the Past. And that's out next year when The Witcher 3 will be 12 years old. It's really incredible. It still sells millions of copies every year. It's up to 65 million now. But the big surprise out of CD Project was the news of a remastered version of The Witcher 3. is out on all platforms, including Switch 2 and Battleet for the first time. Comes out on September 29th,

and if you're an existing Witch of Three owner, you can get it at no extra cost, which is which is nice of them. Now, I had the privilege of chatting to CD Project joint CEO Mikau Naracowski this week. It's going to be a full episode of the show, which will release next week. But I thought I'd offer you a sneak peek because one announcement the studio made ahead of Gamescom is that The Witcher 4 will launch in 2028, which means it'll launch into a world where physical discs, at least on PlayStation, will no longer exist. Now, we know CD Project is typically very supportive of the physical space. They love a physical good. So, I wanted to ask them how they feel about it.
We don't know what's going to be uh uh the case. This is we know what PlayStation has announced. Yeah. I mean and uh we have no influence on the policies of uh of the first parties to be honest. Uh the discs for the first parties like for the uh you know including PlayStation have to be manufactured you know in their own factories. So, if they stop manufacturing indeed by 2028, then then then yes. But like what we're we're

focusing on like we're big fans of people having access to tangible collectible things. Like we we're we're nerds ourselves and we like that. We always supported that. So, so whatever is the case, we're going to be for sure having a box. We're going to have a box that's going to have some, you know, some feelies in it. something that's going to, you know, be be something you're going to be wanting to open up and and enjoy,
but we have no influence actually on what is the case here.
You can check out our full interview with CD Project next week. Now, it was a very busy Gamescom, but also a relatively subdued show in terms of announcements, but there were a few reveals. Ubisoft announced a new Rainbow 6 game called Rainbow 6 Tactics, which is set in the Siege Universe. It's coming out in 2027 and developed by Ubisoft Paris. Ubisoft also announced something called the Player Council. It's a new feedback platform where players can sign up and have input into early concepts, prototypes, and live service updates. The system has players level up as they provide feedback. So, they've gamified it. The first games to

be included are the 2021 openw world sports game Riders Republic, a game called Atamega, which is an old Ubisoft title that they're sort of bringing back. It's also asking players to help with code name Split Point, which is a 1v one tactical turn-based multiplayer game, and a single player strategy game called Project Rook. We're going to dive more into that in a future episode of the show. Now, elsewhere at Gamescom, indie smash hit Eugenics is coming to consoles on September 8th. Paradox revealed an original IP, a post-apocalyptic grand strategy game called Afterworld. There's a Lego version of the hit citybuilder game City Skylines in the works. It's coming to all console platforms, but there's no release date yet. Disney Illusion Island developer Dala Studios is making an original IP called Murals. The game featured legendary UK comedian Bob Mortimer, who's a, you know, a legend. And the show also marked the launch of 1666 Amsterdam, the brand new game from Assassin's Creed creator Patrice Desile and his studio Pache. Now, the game was on stage opening night live and it's been a long time coming. It was initially commissioned by THQ in 2010. It was designed to be a rival to

Assassin's Creed. Now, after the publisher went bust in 2012, Ubisoft ended up with the IP. They picked it up and after a short legal dispute, Desle managed to secure the rights of the game back from Ubisoft. He initially obtained funding for the project from Microsoft before the platform holder pulled its support. But now finally the game is here at least in early access form. Now I managed to catch up with Deslay at Gamescom to talk about the launch of the game, its projected journey to launch and we also talk about his previous title, the unique survival game Ancestors at Humankind Odyssey. The game where you play as a monkey that went on to sell 2 and a half million copies. You can check out our full conversation right now.
Hello Patrice. Welcome to the show.
Thank I know you've talked about this before, but let's talk about the journey of 1666. It started off at THQ.
It collapsed. Ubisoft picked it up. You fought Ubisoft for the rights. And now finally, 15 years later, here it is. Why persist? Why why not let it go?
Uh- because I'm I'm stubborn. uh because I wanted to attack uh this this universe

I had in mind because I love the location of of Amsterdam that I discovered back in 2011 when I was there with the mother of my uh two daughters and uh she wanted to see the tulips in April and I'm like okay let's go and it was a we spent an amazing uh week there and I was walking around the city and I was like oh I could have done a Assassin's Creed game here it's too that I'm not uh on this anymore, but I was looking for my next game, you know, and then I turned around a corner of a of a street and I there was a building
written ano 1666 on it. I'm like, "Oh, that's the number of the beast. Oh, interesting. Let's do a game about the devil set in Amsterdam." And and then and I then it it it lives in you those ideas,
right? and you start creating a a game world and and the universe and and then

and I just couldn't let go. I felt we I had something and so when I got the right back for me it was quite obvious that I wanted to do it. It's just that we were still working on Ancestors back then in 2016. So, as soon as we uh launched the Ancestors in January 2020, I went back at it and then but this time, okay, but at first it was really a game about the devil.
Mhm.
And I felt like uh Lucifer the TV show went out.
Yeah.
And so I I I decided to say what would be a real interesting character still related to the devil. And it's oh, witches. and then naively let's do to the witches what I did with the assassins back in the days and here we are now uh six years later.
It's interesting because I hear 1666 some British. That's the great fire of love.
I know.
Um
I know.

Is that the next one? [laughter]
You never know. But what's interesting is I think you understood that the real IP or the license is 1666.
Yeah.
And Amsterdam is at least the first game and then we can go elsewhere. Even you go elsewhere in this game, there's multiple time zones. There's all sorts of it's all
you don't your your games are I don't know what the word I don't want to say like batshit, but I mean like sort of they're they're they're mad and they're crazy and they're inventive. Do you find it hard to sort of get funding or backing for those sort of visions or do people because they your history they just know that you deliver?
It's it's never easyh me the the the easy part is to have the meeting.
Mhm.
And then you have to sell it.
Yeah. you have to explain it and uh eventually you sign a deal. But the the signing the part is not easy.
Like I say, I I met a lot of people with the and pitch this game to a lot of people and I received mostly nos before

I received one yes.
But I think I think people have the confidence that yes, I've directed games that uh had multiple uh time period in it. uh delivered uh some uh interesting uh gameplay mechanics, nice story and and big universe uh and I don't know and I guess also I'm I'm good at making sure that the team is ready to follow me
because I'm not uh me myself uh cannot do it.
Yeah.
But I find it interesting to have multiple
Yeah.
time and uh create a almost like a a what's the word? not uh not um you know where you follow multiple timeline and stories and it's all linked together and you feel that there's more than what you see on screen
and uh and I find that interesting in in in TV series and in in books in movies so I guess I'm I'm just uh trying to

replicate what I like into the game to the games that I make.
You're self-publishing, aren't you? Did you want a publisher? Well,
always you like to have that control. It's our first time that we uh actually self-publish a game. It's nerve-wracking a little bit. Uh but at the same time, I think uh we have enough experience to do it. Uh we have help with the with the uh selling of the game and and marketing of the game. But, uh, I think it it was time for Panache to, uh, to to to self-publish.
It's easier than ever, though, to sort of get that help, you know, that process of getting a game to market. You don't necessarily need a one-stop publisher anymore.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe for some people, uh, it helps.
Yeah.
But for us, uh, it it h, to be honest, it happened. It was not really the goal, but it happened. And now we're really

pleased with the with the result.
You're going early access.
Yes. The thing with early access, I had I spoke to Peter Molyneu earlier in the year and he talked about how what made him nervous about early access is that gamers sort of expect a
yes
a finished ready game effectively. They don't they don't want anything that's too buggy and and that but that's the whole point of it. Still quite a risky route to go down. It's not like it's not the safe option. Um but we have a question to that other than you know how are you feeling about it? Obviously you're live now. um as you'll be I guess glancing over your shoulder looking at those uh numbers and and data and feedback coming in. Um how prepared are you for it?
I think I think we we well we're totally prepared. It was a bit the the vision for Panach since the get-go since we like I I wanted to be designing and making the game with the people.
Yeah.
It's just an ancestor we couldn't do it but it's really in our process. It's we already have a an iterative process. It's just now we're

including in that process the people who actually are playing it
and and so the goal is like tell us what you like, what you dislike will make it better. But I think the proposition so what they can actually buy today is is is is pretty good.
Yeah,
it's pretty solid. and and right now for around uh is like in euros and dollars or around 30 bucks. I'm not quite sure the precise price in you'll have
the entire of the game and I think the proposition is is is pretty pretty unique and it's quite fun to play at the end of the day.
Do you have a good runway on it or is there pressure to get this to a certain level of success quickly or
Oh, no, no, no. But that's my No, I won't tell you the [laughter] internal numbers we have in mind, but we're good. We're good.
You're good. That's that's really what I was asking.
You sent six years on this game, and six years is a, you know, it's a long time.

Um, the industry, you know, the zeitgeist can change a lot in six years. Are you feeling the pressure to start making games faster? A lot of companies seem to be doing that, L.
No, not really. Not the pressure.
No,
I don't feel the pressure. There's always like the economical pressure if you will, but not uh
uh again our process is like I've been playing that game for the last six years in early access by you know on the team and it's always getting better and better and better
and but I wanted to be out there for my team also because it can get a little bit
crazy. That's not the right word but a bit schizophrenic for them like always being like is it good? you don't know and changing just for the sake of changing stuff sometimes. So, I wanted it to be out there and because we're making it for for for people at the end of the day.
Oh, yeah. I I talked to a lot of creators today and it's there's the economic pressure, right? If you make a game faster, you're making it cheaper.

But it's also the the creative, you know, people get, you know, the amount of game designers I speak to in their 50s that go, I've probably got two or three games left. And I go, what? That does that's my blows my mind when you think about how how long these games take to make. I guess that's not
that's not as crazy as it sounds and and I wonder from a creative point of view. I want to I want to get games and you know you're seeing I know that you've been doing some stuff with AI tech and uh people doing things with smaller teams and outsourcing and all that kind of stuff to try and speed those things up. But it's not something that you're worrying about
dude. I do have two or three more games uh because I am 52 but no no no no. But it's the beauty of of what we're doing right now. The game is out there. Let's
Yeah.
Let's uh let's let's continue for the for a full year. And let's you never know with 1666 because of the layer
Yeah.
of the game world. I think we can make more game uh faster.
I want to touch upon Ancestors. The last time we spoke it was before the game it

come out and it's it seems to have done reasonably well. It had a bit of a mixed reaction critically, but some people really loved it. Um, how do you how do you feel about it?
I loved Ancestor and I love the community around Ancestors and uh there'll be some surprises coming. [laughter]
You got it first.
Well, you you were saying to me last time it was like, "Oh, I' I'd like to take it to this level and I to move it on to the next era."
Yes. And this is still the the the goal. I'm not finished with Ancestors, that's for sure.
Wow. I mean, we we we finished Ancestors uh I think it was 2 million years. So, there's still two million years to develop.
So, you got two millions years of ancestors to do. You've got multiple different cities to say 1960s and you've got two to three games left. Um
we'll see. We'll see. But for sure, maybe I'll do a little game
eventually that is done in six months.

I love it.
You never know. That's what I mean. Obviously, I know Fictions has the sequel rights to it, I think.
Yes, it's true.
Would you like it back?
Oh, no. It's okay.
No, but I mean, [laughter] I never uh that's why I'm like I never thought about it, but we're in contact with Fiction and uh we're having a good relationship with them.
Oh, good. How has the studio changed since that game?
Since Ancestors?
Yeah.
Uh we finished Ances Ancestors. We were uh roughly 35. Some people left because it's part of the industry after you finish a project. And in Montreal, it's so easy to go to a different studio
during that COVID period as well and the great resignation.
All of this um and but now we're 70 plus.
Wow.
Yeah. We double the the size. I I I'm working hard to make sure that we keep the same vibe.
Yeah.
The same process as much as possible. It's not like suddenly we have uh 25 of those 70 are there to manage the other

ones and it's all people who are actually crafting the game. Uh real people doing it because you mentioned AI and just want to make sure that we used it. It's gone from the game and we are not using it again and it's that's it. That's the end of it. Please No, but it's true. 70 people who are making the game, you know, artisans of uh uh in the uh of the industry, newcomers and longtime uh yeah uh workers. I get the generative AI kickback you got. But actually, you know, a lot of the AI tools to speed up coding agents, that kind of stuff, or in my my world, transcribing interviews and things, I don't think people have that much of an issue about that kind of thing generally. But okay, I won't ask 70 people. Do you do you do a lot of outsourcing?
Well, we did a little bit for cinematic and some uh for some um uh game models,

you know, uh but most of the work is done internally. We do some of uh some localization and testing, but most of it is done internally, if not all of it. I mean,
when I was, I think, 8 years old, I wrote a short story about 1666. It's literally called 1666. It was set in London, the Great Fire London, cuz 1665
was the Great Plague of London. Yes.
And it's not true, but there's a myth. The fire wiped out the plague. It's not quite true. Um, but I did a whole sort of like storyline of somebody in that P.
Oh, no way. Interesting. When I was eight, I remember nothing about it, but whenever I see the name of the game, I'm taken back to uh like
you want to write for us.
I'll write you the next game. Yeah, um you know, I don't know whether I've asked this question because I'm getting you want you want to do more 1666. You want to you're developing this in early access. You want to develop the game and

hopefully do take it to more locations. But you're also talking about more um ancestors. Where would you like to see panache in 10 years? Ah, good question. 10 years it's like, oh, when I'll be 62.
Yeah.
My god. [laughter]
Let's not say that.
It's true, though. Uh I I wish we would have like this, let's say, the same amount of people because after this, I feel like I will not know the people around.
Mhm.
Maybe more than one game at the same time.
Okay. uh because of the tool set and uh that we've built and uh and and we'll see and and have a really strong community of people are following us. It's it's it's it's the case with ancestors and but I would like panache to be recognized as a as a studio uh and have people are following us pushing us and

uh and this is roughly where I I see it. But then that means that it's you're telling me that Panache is now 22 years old and it's kind of like wow.
Awesome. Because we're 12 now.
Yeah. I Yeah. I I that time does upset me.
I know. I know. It's because of the what happened in 2020.
Time is kind of like whoa. Okay.
Yeah. Well, congratulations on getting the game out.
Thank you.
It's been quite a journey. Quite a battle. very much.
I know it's very different to the one that you envisioned, but it's it's a obviously a great effort to get it to this point.
It's different because in in that journey, you know what really and yesterday I was thinking about that and
the the the most beautiful thing of that journey is all the people
that I met through it all
that you know that that gave me so much and uh and and make and made that game some some shape or form. And so uh uh

it's that was the most incredible part of the journey
it is. And you know we had um I had Harvey Smith on our show two weeks ago and I asked him about Redall right and he has and even though the game and I'm not it's not related to your game the game didn't do as well as he wanted. It was you know it was a failure. He talked about the journey of it and he said sometimes it is just about the journey and you know you want the gold ring but sometimes it's about it's about the journey. I would say not sometimes it's really about the journey because RV also I guess is a bit like me where the your personal life and your artistic life is or working life is pretty close from one another. So uh it is about the process and the journey of making a game with people that is in and out of that journey.
It's a wonderful note to leave it on. Uh Patrice congratulations and thank you for your time.
Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.
This edition of the game business show is sponsored by Keyword Studios and Exola at Gamescom. This week, Exola is

showing the world its Exola publishing suite, which gives PC studios their own storefront, launcher, player data ownership, and global payments. It's a chance for PC developers to have their own direct to consumer channel and keep up to 95% of every transaction alongside Steam. At Gamescom, developers can stop by the Exola booth for a publishing suite walkthrough to see all it can do and the types of store you can build. If you're not attending Gamescom or if you're already back from the show, you can just set up your store in the publisher account and be live in days. For all the links you need, check out the newsletter connected with this episode of the show on the gamebus.com. Right now, back to the show. So, we've already listed a bunch of games from opening night live, but there were actually quite a lot. Wizard of the Coast announced the release date for its Mass Effect like new IP, Exodus. It's coming on April 7th, 2027. It also showed Warlock, its next D&D game, which is due in 2027. Embracer and Red Octane. I actually seen this game. It's really cool. Announced their Rock Band light game stage tour is coming out December 10th. That's for PS5, Xbox Series X, and

X Switch 2 and PC. I'm all over it. It looks great. Meanwhile, there were big trailers shown for Game of Thrones War: The Westeros, Blood of the Dawn Walker, Control Resonant, Rayman Legends Retold, A Plague Tale Legacy, Silent Hill Townfall, Gears of War Eday, Metro 2039, and more. It wasn't just opening night live that happened though. There was also the future game show. For me, the standout reveal there was a new Worms spin-off, plus the news that a new mainline Worms game is in the works because, you know, I'm old. I love Worms. But Onamusha was there, Clutch was there, Star Trek was there, The Walking Dead, Sirius Sam, lots and lots of things. But one game that actually surprised me was a hockey game called Breakaway Hockey League, which looks like a supercharged fast-paced 4v4 hockey title. In fact, that's exactly what it is. And the reason it surprised me is it's being developed by Raccoon Logic. Now, if that name doesn't mean anything to you, Raccoon Logic is the developer formed by Alex Hutchinson and Reed Schneider. These are two development veterans. They they worked together on EA game Army of Two the 40th Day and have individually worked on some major games including Batman Arkham Knights, Splinter Cell, Far Cry 4,

Assassin's Crew 3, and many more. Now, Raccoon Logic is behind the comedy action adventure games Journey to the Savage Planet and Revenge of the Savage Planet. I actually spoke to Schneider and Hutchinson in 2024. It was the last interview I ever did for gamesindustry.biz is ahead of the release of Revenge of the Savage Planet and they talked about embracing the old model of making releasing video games. So, you know, create a title, finish it, stick it in a box, get it featured in magazines, and you know, release it. They acknowledged in my interview that's not the way games are done today, but they just like the old way of doing things. They wanted to prove it could still work. But it kind of didn't. Revenge of the Savage Planet was wellreceived and it did get millions of players, but most of those came via Xbox Game Pass. And actually, most of those Game Pass players weren't interested in buying any add-on content or DLC. They got the game as part of their subscription. They wouldn't want to spend anything else. So perhaps it shouldn't surprise me that the firm's next game is a bit more typical of modern titles. It's an online multiplayer game. It's going into early access. It's being developed alongside the community. And so I decided I had to talk to Alex and Reed about this and its change of approach for its new game. And

here is our short conversation. Hello, welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for having us. It's great to see you again. Thanks for having us. my final interview on game with games and shortb was you two. I was expecting when I heard that your new game here that it would be
a continuation
the savage planet style thing and it is absolutely not that. So tell me about this pivot.
The goal for the studio was to sort of adapt to the modern world a little bit instead of spending three or four years working on a game as we have traditionally for probably the last 20 years to try and get something out faster and find something that we could work on you know in in tandem with the audience.
We got some interesting research that came through. We realized that, you know, there hasn't been a big hockey game on PC, like a big larger 3D production hockey game on PC in a long time. We felt like with the expertise that the studio has in 3C's, in great art, in technology, we're like, we could do something here that no one else has done before. Um, and we could bring this to players. We're like, that's a cool idea. Let's give it a shot because, you know, we've never tried anything like this, but there's no time like the present. And the market conditions are basically like, now's the time to do it.

You've always had a bit of a sort of comedy fun vibe about your you and your games and your studio. Is that going to come across in this sort of different genre?
We hope so for sure. I don't know. What do you think, Alex?
It's still going to be a bright, optimistic color palette. The art's still going to, you know, pop. Um, we're hoping that the systems are robust enough. If you think about what the game is, it's kind of uh uh, you know, the gameplay of Rocket League meets the the tone of NBA Jam, you know, inside a hockey game is what we're trying to achieve. So, it still should be bright and optimistic. uh you know fun in the pad hopefully systemic enough to have you know hundred and hundreds of hours of play but we'll know soon enough
when we last spoke as say it was in LA it was around logic I mean you said to I've got a quote from you on this is that we're doing the last harra of the games industry I grew up with which is you get an edge cover you fly jennison in to talk in actual person it feels like the end we're doing a physical version that's the industry I love so um you're talking about adapting
so much [laughter] truth
we make fun of him for that it's perfect
you're talking about adapting But did

that approach work or did it not?
Um, well, I think I stand by it. I think it was, you know, especially now at Gamescom, you look at the kind of games being announced and there's some stuff still happening, you know, outside of of North America and most of Europe that that looks like the old games industry, but it is changing and we're trying to change with it. Um, I think the approach worked in the sense that it resonated with with game players. Um, I was distressed the other day to realize that u, you know, my favorite console of all time, the Omega 500, uh, they think sold between four and five million units. So, if we look at the numbers for Revenge and Journey to the Savage Planet, in a in a crazy way, we almost had as many players as people who owned an Amigga. Um, and yet it doesn't feel like the same level of success remotely, you know. So, I think the industry is changing and you can still have a big audience and we got a big audience, but it monetized in a very strange way. Um, you know, people aren't buying physical copies anymore. if they get it on streaming services, they're not spending any more money. So, the new game is trying to, you know, adapt to this and still, you know, make games that we love.
Has your heart broken a bit then?

[laughter]
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit.
Chris, how much time do you have?
Yeah. No, I mean, I I miss I miss, you know, all kinds of things. I miss magazines on shelves. I miss, you know, going to the game store, you know, so and I think that's it's kind of a sign that you're in you're in comfortable middle age when Yeah. Uh, you miss those things. But I think there was a there was a level of personality and ownership that came with waiting for a game, you know what I mean, and spending your money up front and then investing your time in it that's lost. Um, there's still great things about the the modern industry, but I do I do miss that. We try and be pretty clued in on in terms of where the industry is going. And if you look right now, everything I mean more and more it's just about clips. People like people aren't, you know, they're reading less unfortunately. Like it's just everything is just clips clips clips. So, one of the cool things about doing something like hockey and if we do our job properly and hopefully we will like it's a clip factory. Now, obviously people are still going to read you know stuff from from you Chris because it's like the wider audience and it's a business focus but if you think about
you know like the younger players that's what they're responding to now. So, one

of the things that interested us about this is if again if we do our jobs right, we can basically create almost like a clip factory and lots of interesting moments where players could be capturing those, sharing them and showing off to their friends in the same way that we see in Rocket League.
Yeah. Another thing worth mentioning is we don't have an official license for the game. So, Breakaway Hockey is, you know, allowing us to do all the things that people want hopefully in an NHL game that they wouldn't get in an official [laughter] NHL game. So, you know, we can have big hits, we can have crazy shots, we can exaggerate a lot, you know, we can knock the teeth out of people, we can have some blood on the ice if we end up there. So, uh, hopefully it's a little bit more exciting, a little bit more robust without abandoning what makes hockey great.
And you're releasing it sort of quickly. Is this how is that the talk me through that?
Yeah, I think the old days of nurturing something for 3 years before you show it to the audience um, is is is a risk. So, I think, you know, we're looking to go into early access next year and really grow with the audience and and get constant feedback.
You go out next year, you might still be able to do a physical version from people.
I would love a physical version, but uh

yeah, I don't know. I think yeah, there's funny stats on the physical stuff in that sports, especially as it's more mainstream, is actually keeping, you know, physical adoption at a higher rate than a lot of other games. So, maybe it would make sense. I hope so. I hope so.
You you made you made his day now.
Yeah. I'm just wiping a single tear away from [laughter]
It's going to early access. You're going to release you're going to test it. Are you are you prepared for that? Cuz you have quite an artistic vision. You got people going to tell you, "No, don't do that." And you're like, "No, I'm the
I'm the I'm I'm the creative guy behind this. This is how we do things."
Oh, well, I mean, it's a it's always a collaboration. Often I'm answering the question, but it's usually an answer that we've worked on as a group or a lot of the time, not always.
I think it's more fun to get feedback early on. When you've really spent 3 years on something, you're pretty certain of your idea and you don't want to change it. So, I think it actually makes it easier to get quick feedback on a quick prototype. And also it's it's hockey at its at its core, you know what I mean? It's not we're not trying to create something from whole cloth. So I think it's a really good fit for for a feedback loop. But I do think for the team like the there is an adapt like to your point there's a really big adaptation process where we whether you

know the leads on the team or really the whole team in general we have to get comfortable with getting you know with with putting stuff out there that might that we might not have put out you know in the past historically. So, it's a it's a process and we had to bring on some new people as well who have a who have that mindset and we had to adapt ourselves. So, it's going to be learning. We're not going to we're not sitting here saying we're going to get everything right. We're going to learn from it. We're going to go we're going to we're going to learn as we go.
Yeah. It's PC, right?
It's PC to start.
Yeah. Exactly.
And the idea that it will come to consoles eventually if the console industry is still standing.
We'd like to do that. [laughter] That would be cool.
I know I we have Twitter conversations, X conversations. I know that you're uh quite passionate about uh the console side of the industry and where it's heading and and
thoughts. Yeah, thoughts. I don't really have a question to that other than, you know, I think you seem to be quite like the fact that Sony seems to be pivoting back away from live service and and that Xbox is pivoting back away from Game Pass a little bit.
Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting

when some things I think that are clear to the wider game development community and often even to the audience are not as clear to the executive class. So they they have, you know, meetings where they decide that the future is all live service and, you know, abandon their traditional success. So it isn't it isn't surprising to me that they're turning around and saying, "Wait, we have a lot of studios that make great single player games. Maybe we should let them make great single player games." Um, and again, seeing as that's the stuff I like, it's not it's no problem.
I went through so many interviews. I was going to throw some lines at you with my friend and colleague James Bachelor. You said, "Let people own the games they've bought." That was an interview from 2024.
Yeah. And that seems to be resonating pretty a lot on the in the discourse these days online seems to be agreeing with that one.
Another one was this was an interesting because this is in the interview that we did and you said a big company always wants you to go on and be a 100red million seller and that seemed true in 2024 and 2026 I get the impression that actually people are are okay with a three or four million and
well I think it's crazy when you look at something like Sony abandoning Destiny which had 70,000 concurrent players a day. You know what I mean? in that

failure when that reason is a monstrous success and perhaps it's only a failure because they had far too many people working on it and if we were making the game we're making for a big studio I'd be terrified because the idea that we'll come out of the gate and have 100,000 concurrent players is probably nuts right but as an independent studio we don't need that and we can probably you know both survive at a lower number and then spend the time it takes to grow it so I think I feel much better about them abandoning what seem to be very healthy numbers in favor of chasing crazy numbers.
I think as a smaller studio as well, we can really focus on the player experience more than the monetization. Like a lot of times when you know and we work a lot of us have worked in large companies, it almost it almost starts out with the monetization and they back into a game.
But from our perspective, it's like okay, what game can we make that's going to be awesome for players? What game can we make that people are going to really be excited about? And if we do that well, the money's going to come.
But doing it the other way, it's really, really tough. And people I think pe people gamers and players in general

they have a good they can smell
Yeah.
And so it's incumbent on us to make something that players want. And a players that feels good, it looks good and is going to get people excited. And if we do that well, players are going to come.
I might just leave it there cuz I have to say I was I wasn't expecting that game. I have to [laughter] say I was I was fully like I was setting up talking about
sticking with the old the old the old the old way of making games and the single player and magazine and it's like no, we're going young. It's the joke that the, you know, the old dog hopefully can learn a new trick. Yeah, we might complain about the trick, but we can perform it.
Yeah, the trick might hurt, but but we're going to try and pull it off.
We'll say this that we obsess with generations, but really we talk about we talk about gen alphas and genenzies and all that kind of stuff and millennials. Um, I often think that's largely a marketing construct like cuz when I was young, I played video games with my friends and they watched me play and it was then it was controllers passing. Now it's the internet has allowed us to do that online, but I think there are adults that like consoles and their kids that like consoles. My seven-year-old's Nintendo obsessive. And I think this idea that, oh no, kids are all on Roblox, they all do this, and adults

don't like Tik Tok because they're all about I don't think that's actually true. They've got different times at different stages in their lives. A 20-year-old is worried about different things than a 40-year-old. But that was true ages ago. I think to the is it the living years? You know, every generation blames one before. Like it's it I don't think it's all that different. I look at that and go, "Yeah, you're chasing after a younger crowd. You're going after a broader audience." But actually, we've played those games.
Yeah. I don't I don't think it's the way you interact with it. I think you're right. That's a continuum. I do think tastes change. You know, like I was joking before sometimes I feel like we're, you know, we're in a jazz band and everyone wants hair metal. You know what I mean? It's not about playing the instrument, it's about it's about the style. Um, but I think we found a really nice sweet spot where we're excited to make it. I think there's a gap in the market and hopefully the audience likes it too.
Brilliant. Thank you. Good luck with it.
Thank you.
Thank you. I just want to note that Patrice Desle of course was the creative director on Assassin's Creed 1 and 2 and Alex Hutchinson there was the creative director on Assassin's Creed 3. I'm going to tell you that that was planned. It was not planned but um but anyway before we wrap up well there's only one thing left for me to do which is round

up the news from the last week and there was a lot of news that wasn't related to Gamescom. Xbox is testing a disctodigital feature. It's letting owners of certain physical games unlock a digital entitlement for that same title. So, players just insert a disc into Xbox One or Xbox Series X, launch the game, and they can claim the entitlement. Most Xbox One and Xbox Series X games will be supported. The physical disc will still work afterwards, but only one digital license can be generated per game disc. Elsewhere, Rockstar has broken its silence on the GTA 6 leaks. In a new statement, it called the leaks heartbreaking. It told fans, "We want to thank everyone in the community who has reached out with messages of support this past week. Your words have meant more to the team than you can imagine." Obviously, so much of the game has been leaked online by this leaker that's demanding physical copies of the game. GTA 6 has now been fully revealed on Netflix. I haven't seen it yet, so that's why it's not in this episode, but we will be talking about that next week. Journey Developer, that game company has formed that game publisher. It follows the success of its game Sky Children of the Light, and it's looking to fund emotionally ambitious titles. Sega is to

close Roio Copenhagen following the cancellation of Sonic Blitz. The mobile game was worked on by around 20 people. We don't quite know how many people have been laid off. If you watched Here's the Dring, which is our paid for newsletter and podcast that comes out on Monday, you will know this already, but Focus Entertainment will publish Clutch, the new AAA racing game from Maverick Games, which is the studio formed by a bunch of Fors of Horizon veterans. The game was funded by Amazon, but the retail giant dropped it earlier this year despite it being nearly finished. There'll be more on that in a couple of weeks. We've got a big interview with them. In the US, console hardware revenue fell to a low not seen since July 2020 when PS4, Xbox One, and Switch were in short supply due to the CO9 pandemic. Because of these price rises, Sakana said that sales rates of PS5 and Xbox Series SNX have been significantly impacted. Um, generally July US sales of games hardware accessories were down. It was down 10% to $4.5 billion compared to the year before. Mobile was the biggest reason for the decline with console and PC content also down as well. A few other stories. VC firm Makers Fund has closed its fourth funding round and has

$250 million to invest in startups that might define the future of video games. Makers Fund has had enumerous successes in the past, including with Royal Match developer Dream Games. Riot Games will end active development of its free-to-play fighting game 2XO this December. Servers will remain online beyond this year and offline play will not be affected. 7 First Light has now sold 4 million copies worldwide. Congratulations to the IO Interactive folks there. And that's it. That's it for today's episode of the Game Business Show. Thank you to all our guests for joining us today. We will be back with more news, analysis, insight, and interviews in the days and weeks ahead. If you want to become a paid subscriber to the game business until Monday, we have a summer sale on. We get 25% off a paid subscription. A paid subscription gets you access to our weekly podcast and newsletter. Here's the drinking. It also gets you access to our monthly market report. And you can come along to our live events for no extra cost. You can find out more on the gamebus.com. But that's it for me today. Until next time, thank you for tuning in.