two & a half gamers session #24 - 1 year after IDFA Apocalypse. State of the UA, Admon & retargeting

[Music] welcome everybody this is no gaming podcast 2 and half Gamers session number 24 we are discussing latest news having fun and dropping knowledge but let's not forget and this is super important this is 4:00 a.m. conference discussion WIP so please not let's not take this seriously or too serious but then today we have Felix braberg here myself Matel an and not one but two special guests Kate Lovejoy and Neil Spen let's do a quick round of intros before we start I know Felix loves this but let's start with Kate this time sounds good hi everyone my name is Kate Lovejoy super excited to be here uh I'm the COO of the retargeting business at adic so very interested in our discussion today on iOS um yeah looking forward to to getting started

ne how about yourself yeah hey very excited to be here my name is neilan I had of Business Development for Singler so I work a lot with with platforms but also with customers and we talk a lot about SK at Network so very much looking forward to our discussion today and yeah thanks having me on on the show yay Felix how about yourself Mr try to keep you in line and everything to do with ads mobile ads and mobile games there we go there you go yeah and myself uh taking care of the all the UA fun stuff for different companies around the world and yeah let's I don't want to bore you anymore but today we're going to be discussing one year after idfa apocalypse happened and all these tectonic shifts that happened everything from UA ad monetization re retargeting AK Network 4.0 related so yes super

super excited so um yeah let's dive in and enjoy the wi so let's start uh with some some information about what what actually happened because one year ago Apple turned the mobile marketing industry upside down with the introduction of its at privacy changes predictions for the future of the UA and retargeting were Grim a little bit you know but the Doom Gloom forecast don't seem to have materialized so after all I don't think it was that bad right so how did your CH day-to-day job changed after the idfa happened guys like uh can can we start with that actually or maybe I can start I can start because uh everybody said like okay UA is dead and I was um a guest on multiple podcast talking about how U is not that and it's actually

quite the opposite I'm definitely enjoying myself and the all the UA uh UA campaigns and and everything that's happening since the the at changed it's just it's the same thing that before we just need to think about um different optimizations uh we need to think about how to evaluate the campaigns properly which obviously it's not super easy but you know it it just we just need to change the the lens a little bit how about yourself uh fix I know a lot of people also are crying about like how out monetization is dead as well because you know can't uh get a lot of uh a lot of money from the players without the idas I'd say the first impact was that my workload like doubled on iOS right so you have to have separate waterfalls set up for L and idfa traffic to ensure that you get the highest ecpm possible so then you know yeah twice as many

waterfalls on iOS to manage also increase the workload because you have to do work around what we're going to be discussing a bit later on on opt-in rates and how to maximize that but for me the Delta right now is not as big as it was kind of foreseen between L and idfa primarily due to fingerprinting I'm sure we'll discuss that later but for me the main issue was just my workload increased dramatically but there's a good thing no I mean oh yeah I love it keeping you busy love doing extra work because yeah there we go how to you guys yeah I mean on my end the busiest moment was really when it was being when all those headlines were were happening that was when things kind of changed is so I manage uh teams that are managing campaigns and really are strategic partners for gaming Studios out there at the moment of ID apocalypse with uh everyone kind of freaking out about UA we're targeting are gone forever that's when uh basically every conversation I

was getting pulled into every conversation that my team was having was really around what's going to happen how will we continue retargeting uh all of these things the interesting thing now is that I think we'll talk about this later iOS R targeting is uh very much the same as as before um based on the way tiva is doing it uh and I guess the biggest change now is we're doing a little more on Android I had to learn a little bit more about the uh Android ecosystem nice Neil singular was like the most vocal MMP out there when this this changed or this the it change happened so I guess uh you prepped quite a lot for for everything yeah no absolutely like I I joined singular about a year ago and before that I was working in an Android only uh platform so I was like you know why do I care what's going on and on on

iOS so when I joined it was a bit of a crash course into ATT like I actually remember like you know the first couple of weeks going through the slides and going through all the materials like really scratching my head and first of all I ask myself you know why are Apple doing this like you know fundamental question but I think like the way that that my job really changed is you know when you work in BD you you speak with with with partners that all of their own interests like and some of them even though want to speak about ATT some of them actually really are very interested because to have a customer base that may be very privacy focused um if you look at the customer level you'll be super surprised by the level of knowledge that that is around you will find people that you know are extremely analytical that know about data that know about you know how this can affect their business but say the the less versed UA managers or people that are new in the industry your talk track or like you know the way that you have to explain um you know even like we'll go

into this later like you know what's the difference between like know scan 4.0 and 3.0 that is how my job has changed really translating what is going on and and finding ways how it is relevant to whoever you're speaking to because to be honest with you the relevance is can vary in in in in in hyper degrees whoever you speak to that's so true Neils I think we we forget sometimes what what we're doing is is complex this industry the this thing and on our side we have to adapt multiple kinds of materials depending on you know who we're talking to which studio and how how in the weeds uh they are that really resonates yeah I always think that everybody knows everything about the UA and uh sometimes I talk in acronyms and it's like yeah okay so what does that even mean like oh sorry I thought you already know but yeah that's you know these 10 years in the industry you tend to forget yeah so there there's this report that was published by adictive which says that there is the opting rates are

about like 40% which is not a bad number actually and uh and Felix you you had some some secret tips that you shared on on one of our sessions before so can you can you please share these again and like why there is another question followup question like why should companies test out pre- prompts windows and why should they even care yeah so it's a very good topic to discuss and it's a very interesting topic but I don't think that many companies are currently doing it which makes it kind of yeah this exotic topic to talk about so companies really need to yeah simply put like experiment with the pre- prompt because you can really really push your op rate of users who like opt into tracking which is extremely like valuable to you as a gaming company at least from the ad side I know the ad side is not like as big as the I AP side so if you look at the Spectrum I would say the true Masters in our industry right now is the hyper cas casual companies they embraced this very early

on and started testing they started seeing kind of yeah the highest opt-in rates I would say in industry and when you move up more hardcore like titles or midcore it's not that many people that do testing on it but before I kind of go in on how to maximize it I actually pulled some data on a couple of the games that I managed so this is a sample size of around 18 million rewarded Impressions from the last 14 days so the ecpm delta in the US between idfa and L traffic is now 42% last summer this was around 20% so this like yeah the Delta is like increasing which me means that your yeah your idfa traffic is priced on average 42% higher in the states compared to yeah the L traffic so uh that kind of answers the question why companies should care about this because you can earn yeah 42% high amount of money yeah EX exactly so I would say that if you don't

have a pre- prompt or even like optimized towards like yeah anything or have any like yeah think like like thoughts put behind where to put the pre- prompt then you usually tend to average anywhere between 15 to 20% in opt-in rates that's what I've kind of seen and then when you add a good flow with opt-in rates opin yeah messaging you're usually able to get that to 40 to 54% if you kind of know what you're doing so pretty simple I'm just going to reiterate what we said on the podcast a couple of months ago uh there's three things you can do uh the first thing uh is that pre- prompts need to be shown as early as possible after first app open generally has to be before the tutorial and the shorter time like frame before like yeah after the app open the better uh the messaging in a pre-prom window is very important uh it needs to contain like maybe three lines of a heartfelt message that kind of appeals to your

users uh I had really good luck with uh we rely on your consent to make our games free to play please allow tracking and then we had some colorful game art on the side by this and then right after this message that's when you get your kind of yeah allowed to track and ask not to track and also the third thing is yeah localize this messaging in like your top GEOS and I guarantee you like this will get you an opt-in rate of 40 to 50% can do you know like what was the the difference between English text versus the localized text or yeah so we translated mainly to in the company I was in then we were mainly doing Germany and Japanese and the opt-in rate in Japan was 18% before and after that it was 38% and then we changed the messaging a bit because yeah cultural connotations and it's a bit different in Japan because it's Japan y yeah

and then I believe we finished on about 42% so yeah quite a lot better nice okay so let's let's try to think about how do gaming companies look at the retargeting in general like how was it before the idfa and how is it now is there K is there a significant percentage of their spend that's going to to retargeting do you know um can you share for sure I would say for the most sophisticated Studios it's 20 25% uh it's been interesting over the past few years uh I've been at adct te for the last four years and there were targeting SP space coming from UA before um and four years ago it was really the most sophisticated Studios were doing retargeting it was uh kind of testing experimental building Out programs and I've really seen a shift in the more recent years where it's becoming more mandatory to do to do retargeting where more people are considered at a a must

have to protect their UA cost to protect their payers most importantly um to make sure that they're maximizing their their payer base um so I think it's really become more more important uh than ever before okay um so there's a there's this one question like um if you're running UA and you are running also retargeting like how how do you incorporate this um cost into the into the campaigns like is do you see um um approaches from the sophisticated Studios like because this kind of like increases the cpis quite heavily if I'm spending 10K on the UA and then adding two 2K on top of it with retargeting then you know kind of makes things exp more expensive of course of course and so there's a few things that

I that I think about think about here um first is if you drive a an install and then they're gone from the app uh for you know a week or two weeks that user is gone so that uh that that's kind of a sunk cost at that at that point um so if you have a valuable player that is gone from your app for two weeks it's going to be much cheaper for you to acquire that Valuable Player again than it would be to run new new UA where some of the users will be valuable some will be less valuable yeah uh that's one thing I'll I'll say off the bat is I think there's this misconception that once you get a user they're in your app they'll be there forever uh they're yours they're never going to turn and it's just not the not the reality we see it in the data that once users stop playing for a week uh it's they've they've really lost lost interest so it's very important to send those nudges and reminders and you can really maximize uh your LTV that way

now when we in this case sorry to interrupt in this case like sending these nudges uh we can do that by uh sending push P push me messages right do you have 100% uh opt in for your push most probably no probably not but it's also like one you know yeah of course but that's also like free you know 100% I think there's not one yeah it's got to be multiple multiple approaches uh you've got to be doing push you have to be doing retargeting uh the thing that I think is interesting on the retargeting side is you can actually Target a user while they're playing another game little a little different than push you know for sure that they're in a game environment they're in a probably you know a relaxed mode where they want to be playing and you steal them away and and bring them back to your app oh yeah okay uh getting back to your your question though about the the costs the other way you can do it if you really want to look at it from a super

clean test uh measurement perspective is you can have essentially cohorts that you're retargeting at any given time of new installers so say you have a cohort of new installers for a week you can potentially Target those users for two or three weeks set a really defined window of when you'll be allowed to go after them uh maybe you know a certain number of of touches that you want to do a certain number of creatives that you want to get in front of them and then it's it's a little simpler to attach your retargeting costs to that um install cohort um I wouldn't recommend doing that long term because it's complicated to split up your campaigns that way but it can give you some you know clean measurement clean-ish measurement at least yeah okay in terms of the measurement uh Neils like how do you approach retargeting Singler like do you help companies setting up the the R targeting stack and like help them with

the proper evaluation because it's not like super easy to do and that's something that is really blocking companies from running retargeting campaigns yeah I think like you know blocking a company from from running a campaign that is definitely what we are here to to help people with not to do um I think you know first and foremost I think a couple of points what Kate mentioned like I sit in in quite a lot of qbrs uh with with large game developers and if you see the amount of of spend that goes to retargeting if you see the ROI that is coming from retarding as a channel as well we definitely see the importance of it and if you look at like you know vertical like Social Casino for example there's even jobs right now create that are like retargeting Specialists right that kind of indicates like how how important this really is now if you look at like it from a measurement point of view um again it's about the visualization of like what are you actually doing and at

singular I think when you go to the first step it's like hey what is the definition actually like what we're trying to do and I want to mention here like re-engagement um re-engagement is like where we start at it's of okay you're c a user that user then laps like Kate said as well like they may have been inactive for like a a week or something and when they then appear back into your app in this case a game this is what we count as a re-engagement and then it will be attributed to the same channel where that user is coming from okay now if you if you run specific campaigns to force that re-engagement then we are talking about retargeting and then you will have like a separate report that indicates hey that user is attributed for example to additive and comes from your retargeting activities and then you can do all the calculations that you want now I think there's a there's a bit of a difference I think in between mmps and the way that you can customize those campaigns um in singular for example the

inactivity window you can customize that the standard is is seven days um but if you ask hey you know like what do you advise as an MMP customers to do we don't advise them anything we basically say hey like you can decide what you feel is right for your campaigns and consult with like you know the retarding partners that you work with and then create a Level Playing ground and it's the point I rather make I don't want to be in that position that like we become a UA agency as an MMP we are there we we we are there to visualize the data that may be a bit dry but it's up to you know addic T to then you know see with their customers what do you want to measure and how do you want to measure it and how do you want to visualize it that that's where we yeah but you know like there are this um these these measurements where companies are creating the control group so they can actually compare um how the re-engagement um improves the numbers and what it actually does to the to the campaigns and if it brings additional um

an incremental Ro so if you have these type of things in in Singler that would be super helpful if don't of course like I mean that that's why companies have their own data team right yeah yep yep yeah in terms of in terms of the the the iOS and and retargeting on iOS like Kate how do you approach uh retargeting iOS and how do you actually measure it you know yeah mentioned there different uh reports on the on the Singler side but how do you how do you actually measure that on your side what's the difference yeah for sure so our measurement I I'll say that we we do incrementality studies on our end I do want to just mention that that we actually have a control group set on our campaigns that is verifiable I think this is very important I think we're the only retargeting partner that has verifiable incrementality so we very simply split the uh control group into two you know the control and the the target group and

we actually give our partners the formula so that they can back into how we did that split so okay just a little a little plug on the on the measurement side um but to go back to your question about iOS um so for us it's completely deterministic so the way we're approaching it is really trying to take Apple's Direction at at face value as we said earlier there's a 40 to 50% opt-in on on some of these apps when you're working with clients like you know to Amazon let's think about 40 to 50% of their user base there's meaningful retargeting to to be done there so we're really taking the deterministic approach where we're only going after users who have given consent um and for those users we're able to find them on on the publisher apps what we're seeing is that if a user opts into our client's app most likely they've been opting in uh elsewhere as well it's not that they're only opting in on on your app so we can find

matchat we look iOS there's a difference for those users who have opted in uh seven points less 7% less uh so really we can we can find those folks if they've opted in and in that way measurement is you know business as usual but why is not like nobody's talking about like how well let's say easy it is like why why is it happening the on the retargeting side we should we should be talking about it more yeah okay because yeah like everybody said like like I mentioned at the beginning like yeah well UA is dead retargeting is dead there's no way how you can actually retarget those highways users and then like nobody listens to anybody yeah okay so instead we we move on much more exciting headline to say it's the apocalypse it's the it's the cookies are crumbling everything true yeah all these click bites okay yeah okay that's true yeah yeah that's true yeah also like

like JK mentioned this um on his previous podcast like yeah this UA apocalypse and everything is is dead and like what what what do you mean that's like life and kicking and like better than ever like yeah but it's like not attention grabbing headline like ah okay I get it so exactly but like you know but like I see this still on LinkedIn as well like you know I sometimes think that like LinkedIn has become some sort of tabloid right it's like people just like shout things that you know grabs their attention and you go like you can really be a bit more original like I saw one the other day that also complained about hey Apple thank you for destroying your own business you go like what are you talking about yeah then you still click yeah of course of course because you you want to know like what's going on oh well well I need to think about how how we should name uh this session so it's uh appropriately the Ang the angriest you've been at me m was when I said UA was dead as a joke and you didn't speak

to me for like half a day brilliant but I actually wanted to follow up that okay I'm a bit curious like in terms of volumes that you're seeing in budget spend like when these headlines were flowing like did you see clients scale back significantly on iOS or is that back now or how's the split looking if the split what was the split before and what's the split now in terms of yeah overall spend I mean honestly when you know a year ago we made a concerted effort to shift a lot of budgets over to Android given that things were so up in the air we wanted to make sure okay we can kind of do business as usual on Android while we figure out iOS with with our partners and so there was this shift odor Android initially that we had kind of spearhead and now that we're seeing that oh wait it's not a 5% opt-in rate it's up to you know 40% in some cases over the year we've been adding back on those iOS campaigns and so for most of our partners they're now working with like a a fluid budget and we move it around depending on where the scale and performance is of course there's

less scale on iOS today I'm not going to pretend that 40% is the same as it was before but um yeah there's meaningful again there's there's meaningful retargeting to be done there it's also the same thing happened sorry Felix it's same thing happened like with the with UA budgets everybody was Shing their pens uh because you know of the the measurement and evaluation of the campaign so they just dropped like all the budgets suddenly and moved it to Android which created like two things iOS was really like competition lless like no competition nobody was spending there which created a pretty good environment at least for me so thank you very much for for doing that and then the other thing was like Android was super competitive and expensive as so like yeah thank you for doing that as well just create opportunities I know yeah I know right it's true and that's what's happening right now right it's a moment of opportunity I think on iOS where it is a field that's a little less crowded you

can potentially come in yeah I'm also like running pretty pretty great campaigns on on iOS for for different companies and you know it's it's slightly different UA mix than it was before and it is on on Android but still pretty reasonable and the scale is kind of nice as well so yeah huge huge opportunities why not to to leverage those and speaking of um opportunity and iOS um Apple recent Apple recently announced like this scan 4.0 and uh without going too geeky what can we expect uh Neils how how are these changes going to affect the the mmps and the measurements I kind of feel that I'm the geek on the show today because I I question right yeah no but uh without joking I mean like we did a we did a webinar with with a couple of weeks ago

and we did a very simple poll and we asked people hey like how do you feel about like your success rate with SK Network right now and I think 9% of participants said that they were comfortable with their performance right now means that like more more than 90% was sort of saying like hey like you know I can't make this work and that can have like various reasons right yeah now if you look at like 4.0 or 3.0 like in my opinion whatever like you know app is doing right now it is really going through a couple of iterations and I think that Apple you know itself probably has realized as well that you know it hasn't really made the work of UA manager better it simply has really put on more complications and Singler really jumped into that like with you know their product Suite but even like you know with the product Suite that we have like every conversation I have in Market your kind of standard reaction that you get is like I can't make scan work it is not performing and if you say for example but okay when you say hey

it's not performing you do realize that part of your data is missing yeah people sometimes go like oh I was not aware like yeah like some of your revenue is actually not shown which means that your actual Roi probably is a little bit higher yeah but but yeah but but but that aside I mean there there's a couple of updates that were made um in 4.0 and I think like the main thing is relating to to the postbacks that you can receive um so the the in in 3.0 you had like know one postp you could receive like within uh 24 hours and you could choose what postp that could be and you can then choose like your your model based on like you know what add your marketing as well for a game you're probably looking at you know at Revenue now the biggest update in in in in 4.0 is that like you can now receive up to three postbacks the first one is what we call a fine postback which is um you know the same as right now it can be for example um you know IP so so Revenue yeah and the second and the third which can come

like a couple of days later and then again one a couple of days later are what we call course and this is like one of the things like sometimes when you go into this presentation I like why can't you just use like normal human language because you know you need to translate this to like you know UA manager that you know maybe has like it comes out of uni like one or two years and study I don't know politics like they don't know anything about like data analytics so long story short the the the course uh values that you can get are kind of three um levels which can be anything from to me to good so say for example if you have an e-commerce app it can be a window shopper a first time buyer or a repeat buyer and these come in two levels so like if you then ask hey like you know what do marketeers need to prepare The Sims for it is basically an enhancement of of what you have right now and ask yourselves questions like if I can pre-qualify the uses that I want to to

to acquire if I then want to optimize based on like the additional postbacks that I can receive how would I group these um last point that I have to make here is that like know we are SES a company iterating on like how are we going to adapt like a product stack uh to this changes I mean we're doing this as we speak uh we made some res changes in in three point here about about that later but you know what companies need to talk about is like the additional postbacks how can I use that based on like you know what information they they they give me if you've built a mobile game for iOS or Android you've experienced user turn you can win those users back but it's getting more and more expensive even more so to acquire totally new users enter cross promotion with a dict by identifying your users likely to turn early you can showcase another game in your portfolio before they leave forever transforming a lost user into a new user increasing your revenues learn more now at ad

dict.com all right um and you mentioned there there was this uh draww webinar like is is there any is there any tip that that you could share that might help the other companies with skn uh yeah I think you know there there there's one problem right now is of of course like about creative Roi because like you know a scan doesn't allow you to to to do that now if you have the data flexibility and if you can actually combine your your Android data and your scan optain data iOS optain data then actually you get a more complete picture of like how your creators are actually performing and like that's what Ro are doing right now um and this you know for me was a was a good takeaway it's what I can recommend other people do as well nice yeah I'm seeing on Facebook like all these like modeled conversions on Creative level which is I mean sometimes very far from the truth but at least something that you can uh you can take into the creative meeting and brainstorming and at least like say oh

this is performing uh good or bad uh or you better than nothing right you could you could test it on on retargeting on your users who have opted in test your different creatives see what the top performer is for your payers that might translate to UA as well oh how how how how is that working can you share a little bit more that's kind of interesting so um I think I mentioned before we don't support actually SK ad Network or I should say scan doesn't report doesn't support retargeting uh so because we are we're we're working just with opted in users so we have all the device ID data we don't have to worry about scan we have full LTV we can see how how cohorts mature all of these things uh attribution Works same as before so in some ways it's a great testing ground for things so we have Partners who will run creative tests with us try out different um themes different characters things like that and then those

learnings can be fed back into their user acquisition campaigns okay that's kind of nice yeah you know if if you can you can run also like you can run creative testing on on Android and then take those learnings and then use it on iOS as well if you if you don't run retargeting campaigns of course of course all right so you don't need okay so you don't need scan for anything in terms of the ret marketing all right yeah okay that's nice so um Felix uh retargeting the opting rates do you do you have uh like any any information about like which game genres have the highest opting rates that did you could see so first way to answer that is if you're doing something around the opt-in rates that's usually like whichever game has the higher opt-in rates but if you're more reliant on ad Revenue those are the ones that tend to have the higher opt-in rates hyper casual winds here are like like quite by

a lot and then you kind of see it decreasing exactly like I said before um yeah you need need to do some work around on it yeah you know like they're always trying to find Loop holes because um Everybody in the industry already said again the the hyper casual is dead for like three years I'm I'm hearing that and they're still again like live and kicking so uh they need to find these okay and and um except the hyper casuals any any other games like what like idle games maybe or or some some others yeah yeah it's around the same but yeah i' would say hyper casual are always kind of the ones leading it because their margins are so dependent on it so absolutely like yeah those are the ones leading the charge okay also uh since we have here uh Neils um I'm I'm seeing some some new product Innovations coming into Singler can you can you talk about that as well uh because I know I've seen something

around the conversion schemas that you can help like calculate where how it should be changed and and some some D7 R calculations as well y y absolutely this is what I was referring to uh you know Innovations in like you know 3.0 if you can call like that it's what you know what what K touched on as well it's like hey like you know on scan you can't actually calculate like the day seven rowers on on your campaigns um you can to to like know but but like we we did this and it's like 95% U accurate okay it's data analytics um so like if it's at scale you can actually calculate and model the the conversions that you're missing or model the revenue that you're that you're missing um I produced a guide or not me the marketing team produced a guide um that I share with you mat as well that really explains you know what it just look like and and how does your reporting look like as well um but you

know the customers that we have that are using it are saying hey like this is basically like you know bringing my job back to like you know how I did my job two years ago because I can simply you know have a a single source of Truth and really rely on my my data and and and it's working for them yeah well watch out with a single source of truth that's one product with uh with from another MMP also very CL I think I think the single source of Truth is probably a copy of like you know singular but uh probably probably probably some contention in the industry but you know you know how we like to poke at each other of course yeah yeah of course of course of course we were first but MMP space known to have the sharpest elbows in our industry right yeah b i I actually have a interesting question that I thought of just now actually since you know I have you guys here it's a bit more on the gossip and speculation side but we love that very good very good so you uh the asteroid impacted last year you

know most of the dinosaurs if not all the dinosaurs are still alive we went through this quite well you know it wasn't as bad of an impact we thought like with them getting rid of yeah the Privacy changes on iOS but if we look up into the sky there is another asteroid like right outside the atmosphere which is that Google has announced that potentially the G dayses are also numbered I think they numbered yeah not numbered but essentially like said that there will be some kind of impact so I wanted to ask like nil you have a good pulse like on kind of the industry what have you heard about Google and then I would probably like Kate to chime in because you are the CEO of a big retargeting company like how are you actually interacting with Google on this but yeah let's start with NS yeah I mean like I'm not the person that actually sits at the table with Google in my organization like I'm not like senior this is I should I should I know I know I'll BR I'll bring this up too much to my CEO to see if we can arrange this you a long

story short you know like our one of our co-founders Ki launched a blog post and this as well I think what Google are doing which is which is very interesting is like they are really listening to the industry and they're really like taking their time to speak to several Partners in terms of hey how can this affect your platform like how does this affect UA because in the end of the day what they want is they want to drive users to the Google Play store and they want people to actually you know work um with with the Google tools and like make Google a profitable company so they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot um and this is you know that is kind of like high level feeling that we get from Google one of the things that that we can already point out is like the creative level Roi that you don't get with scan is something that you will get with Google privacy sandbox um and you know in the gaming space that is already super important to have yeah and uh Kate yeah are you being heard by Google we actually are and that's the the shocking thing to me I mean there's such a huge

difference from the way Apple approached privacy to the way Google has I mean we we met with Google on Monday of this week and their team presented what they're doing with fledge asked for our feedback you know was talking about how it impacts our platform came with Solutions we'll meet again on attribution we're talking about um you know partners that we can work with bringing in a studio to kind of beta test things they're releasing all of the technical materials way far in advance before they're going to enforce anything so we're looking at a 2024 roll out and you know they said that in their initial press release and they've they've held to that so I yeah they're continuing to work with advertising Partners just as they they said they would so it's been pretty great I'm very confident that there'll be a good solution for retargeting on Android based on just their willingness to to listen and share what they're up to yeah I'm not surprised because they said that they they're going to work with different uh parties and until

everybody is satisfied they won't um they won't go they won't move forward with the Privacy send BX so if it's going to be in two years three years five years we'll see but yeah two years pretty good yeah very developer first very developer first yeah that's all right nice so the Google asro is just a mere pebbl then you I like how conversation like went from like you know the dinosaur extinction that's what everyone thought it was going to be that's everyone going be look the the idfa apocalypse wasn't actually an apocalypse after all yeah so all the dancers are still pretty much alive yeah you know like from the from the U perspective as well like uh just going back to what you mentioned NE about the day seven Ras and the calculations so on iOS still up until this day you had at least

like first 24 hours of of data thanks to scan and um even with that you could build really nice prediction models based on the the day one that you could then use and model day seven day 30 day 60 day9 whatever it's pretty good accuracy actually so that's what something that I was using before so you know like they you have these like different approaches to to measurement you have either like media mix modeling increment reality tests um real TV predictions or if you don't have anything or you don't have the the capacity to to work with different companies or you don't have the data team then there's one approach left which is Blended approach you spend X you earn X Plus 100% And then you try to to measure what's the what's the Delta between that and what what are the margins simply as that yeah so any any last tips tricks comments recommendations for for the companies out there that that you could

share okay I mean wa let's see let's see I would say first is first thanks guys what gentlemen um I would say my top tip is Target your payers sooner than you think you have to and measure the incrementality if I could get in front of every uh gaming studio marketer and tell them that that would be my number one advice uh there's such a short period typically between when folks are making purchases that if you target them within three days say of your last purch of their of your of their last purchase that sounds crazy it sounds like you're cannibalizing organic but the reality is you can make them W make them make way more purchases and add a higher Cadence and the incrementality backs out so test it experiment with it would be my number one tip yeah well you have the control group so you can measure actually if it's cannibalizing or not exactly so try it

try it and iOS isn't dead that's all I I have to say exactly exactly Neils now you can now now it's my my chance to shine but I'm never gonna outshine Kake this is for sure no like I I was on a panel a few months ago with all of the mmps on stage and there was a bit of a conversation about the future of of privacy and and um I think my tip to UA managers especially is like you know there is definitely a a tendency that U you know the industry itself is going to be much more privacy Centric which means that yes it can actually be quite annoying to read into SK Network it can be also quite annoying to read into like what are Google planning with Google privacy sandbox I would still advise everyone to spend a little bit of time in just like you know updating yourself making yourself bit more knowledgeable because who knows like you know a stor may be Brewing you know you know in some more updates that

that Apple May release in in the future where you know scan may become a very very important uh you know part of your dayto day um and you know as we all know it's better to start sooner than later that will be my piece of advice nice feel anything from from your side just experiment exactly like Kate said but you're not going to make your opt-ins rates any worse by trying and putting on like different messagingsenderid can actually leverage not only first 24 hours but more days of

data so definitely sit down with your game team and try to try to prep for for everything in advance all right yeah I think I think that's it guys um so thank you very much for coming thank you very much for sharing everything it was really real nice nice session and for our deal listeners please hit the Subscribe button on YouTube Spotify and apple and until next time thank you very much byebye bye bye byee [Music]