🧶​ Yarn Loop Review: Puzzle Gold Rush continues with Spyke Games!

No, no. I mean, in my in my humble opinion, I would say it's anything between 30 to 50 rather than just 15 to 25. But what do I know? I mean, that's just my feeling
because of I'm basing I'm basing the calculations on 86,000 DAU and against and against uh 3.4 million a month in APS, right? since we have the context from the pixel flow episode and we know like how huge it was thanks to all the all the information that was shared and everything and it was purely applied. So if we apply that logic and it was 50/50 and we apply this logic here then it can't be just like pretty much lower than 40 or 30%. It's 4 a.m. And we're rolling the dice. [music] My day drops. Knowledge made of golden eyes. Felix with ads making those coins rise. Jack up designs. Worlds chasing the sky. We're the two and a half gamers. The midnight [music] crew talking UA adverts and game design too. Mat feeling shak bringing the insight. [music] We're rocking those vibes till the early daylight.

Master eyes on the prize. Tracking data through the cyerspace skies. Feeling stacks colors [music] like a wizard in disguise. Jack lift us to the high. Two and a half gamers talking smack. [music] Slow hockey sick. got your back. Ads are beautiful. They light the way. Click it fast. Don't [music] delay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [music] Uh-huh. [music]
Hello. Hello everybody. These two enough gamers again, your favorite podcast. when
this game we're reviewing today is a beast, huh? Like Jesus, it's massive.
So this game is like no one's playing it and it's just making so much money.
No one is playing it. I mean, no one is playing it. Come on.
Like 84,000 people and it's Yeah. breaking in all this money.
It's almost 2 million downloads. Come on, man. It's It's not not nothing.
The DA is tiny. It's like I'm reviewing

what I reviewing loop puzzle again. My name is Mati Lancharich.
I'm Felix Broberg. And I'm Yakub Remia.
We are your hosts. I love this. Very good. So, level comparison. Felix, you're level three. Four maybe.
No, no, no, no. I had played until uh where was it? Until 34.
3.
No, no, no, no, no. You're not.
I had to play for the ads, bro. Dude, seriously, you did not.
What's your your level?
Show me,
Matty.
Yeah.
What's your level?
55.
50? Ouch. Granny Matei strikes again
here. 55. Show me your level five, Felix. I don't see it.
It's 17.
Of course. I mean, seriously, you can't [ __ ] fool me. You have
I know. Oh, but it's still try. It's still great.
Yeah. Yes. It's a [laughter] It's a fair

shot
against Granny Mate.
It's a fair shot, but yeah, you could not possibly play [laughter] play until 30 is really hard. No, hard, but
takes time. It takes time.
Time
and few levels are actually hard. Yeah, a few levels are actually hard.
But it's like all these puzzle games that we review, the the harder and the slower they are to progress, the more IP revenue they earn.
That's a great exaggeration that I won't comment on. If you try, if you try to spark the discussion of piece of Yak, that's another good.
I know he hasn't slept a lot because his two kids is perfect. This is when you can pounce.
No, no, no, no, no. We should
Jurassic Park.
Let's Let's actually go to the game.
Let's try. Yeah. Yeah. Play.
So, what's happening here that if you're looking at the screen and you maybe like like are we reviewing Pixel Flow? No, we're not reviewing Pixel Flow. We are reviewing yarn loop which was fairly recently yarn flow.

Yeah, I wonder why. Wait a second. Yarn uh ammo bear.
Yeah,
pixel shooter. Whatever was that uh was taken down from the store.
Followup from Vietnam is not there anymore. Wink wink.
Oh, wait. Wink wink wink. I actually Well, not not I know I did not do the research, but Chad GPD did all all for us. Obviously, there is actually a lawsuit happening and it's all over the news, but I yeah, I don't want to go there, but yeah, a few interesting things.
Yeah. So, if you didn't live under the rock, Pixar flow, the new sensation from the puzzle genre, puzzle sword genre got bought off by Scopi.
Yes.
So, that's what we know and with all of its consequences, I would guess. Anyway, so we are now looking at Yarn Loop, which is by Combo Games. Who the hell
is that? H
I don't know. Oh, wait. We do. We do know. We do know it from December

because our friend Omar from Gameen brought this up in his December article and we might say Omar is also two and a half steps ahead of the gaming industry. So, you should be like him and you should follow Gaming as well. But you know what? like it's Spy Games and there let's say uh testing account.
Yeah,
testing account.
So,
it's a lot of revenue for a testing account.
We'll we'll Yeah, we'll get to it soon.
Some games on that account or somewhere else.
But the but the crucial part what we have here that again let's start from the core. So, we have pretty much pixel flow right here. But the giant butt is that instead of the piggies being thrown into the tray and the conveyor belt, we have yarns [snorts] which if you understand is like a big topic in puzzle from like 20 games including stuff from

Rolik or whoever was there or like other Vietnamese supersonic as well.
Exactly. So there were a lot of puzzle games using yarn kind of theme theming let's say and they were pretty much continuing on stuff like screw jam continuing stuff like screw them so on so forth. So now we have uh let's say the most successful iteration on pixel flow because the ammo bear game that we talk about which was
that was a clone like one to one like this one this is an iteration. Yeah. Yeah. This is the most successful iteration which is still live on the stores which
Exactly. And I I mean if this is going to get sued like this that's too much. Yeah. Right. Because then you can't really look at the games
at all and then just get inspired.
Yeah. Because what's happening here that if I throw in this yarn into this conveyor belt what it does it's slowly taking on the pretty much the wool or whatever on the
Yeah. Whatever you say it doesn't matter. It's our usual kind of favorite

mechanic that that uh that we know. So instead of the piggy shooting into the picture, we are now getting the yard out of the picture which uh by itself adds I think a little bit of a difference where there's the like this kind of a layering which is now much more important compared to the actual like shooting. But it's like yeah, let's be honest. It's like
it's very very similar. Yeah, it's very very similar. Like mechanically, I think there's a little bit of a difference that this can take. But yeah, let's see.
I mean, like Jakob, the main difference between this and Pixel Flow, these images are cute and way more suitable for the female audience in my opinion. And it's more visual. Way more visual.
Granny speaking. Yeah.
Yes. Granat speaking because I was like, ah, this is this is nice. And they're using all their like this like minions from Wish which are not yellow but orange and they are also

the logo in also other games that they
Exactly. That's why also we know like this is pretty much Spike. Uh and yeah that's I mean when we look at the pixel and what we discussed also in the in the UA UA part is just like you know
Yeah. Like here look at this. Here's level 31 in pixel flow and it's a sword that you kind of have to think about for a while. Flaming sword. Yeah, it's just like I can see how this koala has a better CPI than this would have if you write another creative, right? [snorts]
I wouldn't say better CPI. It's just visually way more appealing [clears throat] and it's this is cute. A flaming sword. It's not. Let's let's call it
especially Minecraft one.
Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. So the only problem I have with this is just takes so much time.
So much a bit slower, right? Yeah. No, it's like Yeah, because h and also it's it's a cute
so much time like level levels are
the levels. Yeah, it's not not hard but

it's not even exactly it's longer.
So the level design is different. The mechanics are kind of the as for as for me as for like looking at it they are
quite similar but uh yeah the key thing I always wanted to know and which I will do now.
Yeah, it's it's the same. Yes, you can.
Is there the slinking mechanic? Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And yes, you need to use it. That that's also the key part
because when you have the hard level, you can't do it without it or super hard or super hard.
Slinging for those who don't know means that you are fastly like you're very swiftly rotating more than five yarns at a time which means that you can rotate five plus.
You can't do five plus five, man. You can't even like it's like five plus one or two max. You are not that fast enough. Yeah, but you still need to be fast enough. You cannot let them let them go and leave them here in the bench or you lose. So it's like it's this in [snorts] my opinion that's the biggest innovation that Pixel Flow did in puzzle where it adds this like very fast reflex based

mechanic into the into the rather very slow turnbased puzzle genre
and you still need to be quite strategic about the next yarn. I mean, the first 10 levels you click through, right, and you can't do anything wrong, but then suddenly you hit a difficulty curve that just makes it a lot harder and then you have to focus.
Yeah. I mean, I think first hard level is is the the actual hard one, which I did I don't remember which one which one.
Yeah, that was the one I think something like 18 17. Yeah, that was the one where I actually use the slinging mechanic without the boosters.
I haven't used boosters like I I never use it for some reason. And I have like in royal royal kingdom I have 50 boosters from each and I've never used it.
But then again like I'm old I'm old granny I always forget about it. [laughter] There you go. Bless you.
So you again you do this as as mentioned. You just slink these yarns and pretty much get rid of the picture slowly slowly slowly. And yeah, I guess

the level design, the level design honestly is the key because this is also one of the things that like for instance games can be sued like if they copy the level design one to one. That's that's for sure definitely like a lawsuit happening there which is not the case here as it seems. So there
wait explain that a bit more. Yeah, explain that a bit more.
So if you literally copy the level design one to one, it's very
that's problematic. Yeah, it's it's it's very problematic because level design is one of the key things in puzzle that's like
that's pretty much your IP.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's you don't think a IP lawyer here could argue that since there's something going around an image and making the image disappear that that's like enough that they could try to take the game down?
Maybe they will just for the you know like for instance Pokemon company just use it you just because of the for the sport of it.
That's very much farfetched. I mean like I mean there is a mechanic that you you

took from the other game.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's I mean it's a mechanic that anyone can use. I mean
the mechanics are not suitable. Exactly. Like you know there's many games that are you know 90% of the top games on the market are just 80% of the previous games and there's some small iteration on top of them. Some some are just blatant copies.
And you know you just you you don't don't forget gaming industry is still a wild [ __ ] waste.
Yeah. Gaming industry is like Yeah. as we say, Pirates of Caribbean basically.
But it's just I'm wondering if like anyone who's doing a game like this, like you have to look at Ammo Bear and you know they must have lost so much money because they were scaling as well and they were earning a good couple of million a month. And you know the paybacks on this, right? So if you can't do UA, you don't get the IPS anymore. You still get the ad revenue when you're on the store from users that have your phone, right? But like you buy the users and then they can't do APS anymore, right? So then you're literally losing

all your UA that you put in, right? And these games
gets cut off basically.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's like cut off, right? So I I don't know like what's what's a good payback on these type of games you think about like 30 days, 60 days?
No, no, no. It's anything between what? Like
Well, at the scale of Ammo Bear, I would say 90 days.
Yeah, I would say higher
a little bit. What was that doing? Like 150 170k a day plus ads. So what? Like 200k?
200 a day at least. Yeah, something like that.
I guess a little bit longer. 120. But you know, you're the UA guy.
Well, you know, you're the UA guy. I would say still like, okay, let's say 90 to 120 even with this game. And then maybe on like higher scale it would be way more.
How much do you think they were spending per day? Ammo bear. I'm a better if
they're earning 200 and on 90day payback like they're spending 500 400 a day.
Could be. Yeah, it could be easily.
Wow.
Could be could be even more.
If I remember, they even have more US

revenue than Pixel last time I was checking it.
Wow.
As for the percentage,
I guess that was the problem.
Yeah,
that was that was the problem.
Yeah,
that was the main character.
No, no, no.
Let me introduce you to my new owner, Scopi. Yeah, exactly.
Anyway,
yeah,
let me just finish.
Legal team is fair and just
the the the the core here. We have the like usual thing. There's already like a liveop space mechanic here on the bottom rescue streak.
If we continue, there's an interstitial which start level 15 if I understand correctly.
But you can get rid of those. And you know how can you get rid of those? You turn off the
Yes. Yes,
don't listen to Mate. That is anti-propaganda. You should not do this. So, us pardon game. People can still earn
ad. You should absolutely do this and you know I flew back from Aliv and it was a 9hour flight and I played a [ __ ]

ton of lof on that flight.
Mhm. So yeah, thank you very much for not having internet connection and still having uh still being able to play the game because I played Pixlow until level 20 and then I had to be online to play more
because if you don't I mean I could play offline but I had to buy remove ads and then I could play offline here. It's fine. I can do it. So spike maybe a little bit adjustments here if you want to earn more money.
The thing is this is not a big ad revenue title but we'll get to that later.
Yeah. Uh one thing that you can notice immediately compared to the stuff that uh it was like during the pixel flow review that we did is that because it's spike spike already has its own template and the template is a puzzle template. So you

see that live ops kicks in quite fast and there's also these let's say carrot on a stick unlocks that are already hitting there on level I don't know 20 or something where we have for instance the first event which is the rescue streak
which was quite soon and we have this like hang challenge beat seven levels without losing which is the lava event that pixel flow introduced first on something like level 100 something plus or like very very late and that was the only event that they run with in like in the beginning of the And then you have missions from level 40. So yeah, this is their let's say advantage here that they are iterating the core and putting it already into their let's say template because if I'm correct here and yeah I'm you're
of course we can look into this small slide.
Hello
from my presentation where we can see already their template pretty much being evolved here. So this is the one that

they use for tile busters. This is the one that they use for blitz busters. This is the one when they use cube busters. You can already see the like orange meaning from which character being there. And like notice the icons and everything that you see here.
Yeah.
And if I here exactly the same. Yeah. Similarly to grand games, both spy games and ground games are running puzzle templates. Same as hobby does. So well done guys. which gives them the speed the the speed and like saving time and all these other things. Yeah, I'm guessing that this is not the one game that they're testing on this other account. They probably tested multiple games that we don't know even about on even different accounts or something like that because they have
obviously we know we know Remy
we know everything.
We know we know everything because Remy the co-founder
Serena's brother has his own iOS account for this
that's there. If we continue again, for instance, this one, you see immediately that that was the hard level. Now it's a relief level because immediately from this level, you see
Yeah. But this is still going to take

like 7 minutes.
Yeah. Yeah. It'll take quite some time. It's just like, you know, the thing is that it's also very, how do you call it? very yeah it's very relaxing and also very enjoyable in a way that like it's it's this haptic mechanic similarly like when the piggies are firing the projectiles the whole phone vibrates which I guess this is the same thing where like haptic feedback is quite important here and it's this kind of very very like uh we call it satisfying feeling of you putting stuff on the yarns and like pretty much it's it's based on this like cleaning your room game design setup which means
would you put stuff into order which produces gratification.
Yeah. Could you say it's ASMR feeling
a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's just that, you know, people really like structure and they like to kind of clean stuff, do stuff in in like a very structured way that they know what they're doing and it's it's, you know, pretty much gives them dopamine. numbers as we said this is

definitely a hockey stick here
which is 155k on March 22 Sunday
and I was talking about this last month and it was 100k per day now it's
based on the trajectory of this this this will hit like to hit quite fast
I hope so
downloads curve is a little bit more let's say
well stable
conservative so something like K per day and active users which Felix mentioned is slowly rising to something like 100K a day a [ __ ] filter applied of course it's US more than 50% US which together also goes on the
did anyone say web revenue oh yeah this episode is brought to you by Fastpring the no drama D2C partner that's been scaling with mobile publishers for over 20 years. They're fast growing,

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Venue which is 66% US. So it's basically or tier one which means even though as Felix said it only so few players all of those players are pretty much tier one where some like what's the like let's say first tier two country that I see here like what Brazil here or something. Yeah, that's for creative testing
like everything else

I know spike the the Brazil is just creative testing.
Yeah. So, so that's there. The other interesting thing if we look at the actual Spike portfolio on their main account like what's what's happening there and what's the the status of that. So of course they were quite successful with tal busters but that unfortunately have fallen off at the end of 2023 from its peak and then there was
we're talking about spike. So there is a spike. Thank you very much for listening. See you next time.
Well done. Well done. So then came Blitzbusters which again scaled to something like 1 million uh a month again falling off. Then there's Cube Busters which if I understand correctly is actually scaling up on their main portfolio.
I would be careful about scaling up.
Let's say just moving into the right direction. Oh, okay. Already peak stagnating. Not really.
Yeah, this is the this is the attempt to

do block blast on APS level based.
I mean not bad attempt though. Come on, man.
I don't know. Like I said, like I would definitely like it was it was completely a logic way. Grand also has this on their portfolio. This exact same attempt to kind of go there. So yeah, I guess like it was an attempt. Let me just say that.
But overall like pretty much the main portfolio account is not scaling anything currently which on the other hand is because it's already if we just go or maybe let's go this last 30 days, it's what pretty much 5 mil a month already.
You know what you know what's funny? If you you are testing a new game like this
and suddenly it's becoming a hit. Nobody knows it's a spy it's spy games
it's like suddenly like oops then you have a problem like hey but this is us like sure yeah yeah
so if you look at the overall genre because as I said in my prediction sword genre is where the heat is on the puzzle.

Well done with the prediction, Yako. Well done.
It's only March and your predictions are coming true.
I predict the water will be wet
in April. In April, I am never wrong and I have designed entire worlds cuz I'm a game designer. So there's Arrows which we covered which is adriven game nearly 5 million downloads. Then we have Magic Sword, Pixel Flow, Water Match, Da D. Yeah. as as we go here. Sand loop here is by the way
by the way. Sand loop since our last se episode.
Wait arrows puzzles for mini clip as well.
That's lessmore is mini clip. They must be pissed.
No, no, no. It's it's mini clip. It's just less more account here.
Yeah.
Uh it's the same arrow puzzle below on number six.
Oh, this one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess they double tap it. Dude, if I got bought by Mini Clip and someone like copies my game in the Mini Clip portfolio that screws with my earnout, I'd be so pissed. Like

that's an interesting way how you think about
Yeah. So if we go revenue, which is the important part. So we have Pixel Flow doing 22 mil
which is amazing.
IP only.
IP only, which means it's much more to begin with.
Yeah, I think it's like 3 mil.
Yeah. The curve is still going up, but it's switched into like from here like until January, it was like the Turkish lion and now it's Chinese dragon.
Nice.
I have no idea where
Chinese dragon is this kind of a slow inevitable takeover of like we'll go up and you know slow hockey stick basically. Yeah. So then there's magic sword which is in close call go right after it. I just want to see the shape of the curve here. And yeah, it's going up. Record revenue basically hitting 300K just now.
Yeah, another 30% on ad revenue there. You know, they start scaling it out.

Downloads. Downloads. Something happened to downloads because I I know that I seen it. I think there like first in downloads. Yeah. Yeah.
Was saying
shut up Gork. So, they're really pushing it up now. Finally. Maybe they started paying attention to UA or or I know I know what happened.
Or maybe they called PVX partners
the simplest most effective credit line for marketing because if you're scaling your game, they they are here for you. And if you're scaling your business and need capital,
maybe PVX partners.
Exactly. Maybe PVX partners. No equity dilution. Flexible repayment as you get paid. You get M sheet in just 24 hours and funding in 30 days. It's fast, funer friendly and built for growth. So call PVX partners and take control of your UA budget without giving away a piece of your company. pvxpartners.com. So here you are. Maybe they called, maybe they not. We will never know. But you can get that money for scaling.

pvxpartners.com. How was this advertisement before? Like this cosmetic one? Like is it natural? Oh, it's this like is the growth natural? It's PVX.
It's PVX.
Anyway,
makes your hair looks long. Yeah, PVX growth.
Anyway, so there's Sand Loop, which we covered, which is now uh if I understood, one of the biggest games on Voodoo.
I don't understand. I didn't think that would keep growing if I'm really honest.
Yeah, it's it's I was looking Yeah, I was looking at it I think two weeks ago. It's actually quite interesting. It's the biggest IP game in Voodoo Portfolio now. Wow. I was I was quite surprised as I was looking into it. But yeah, it actually grew out a lot.
I guess they they listen to our episode.
Yeah, Sand Loop is first. Yeah, as I said, and there's Castle Clashers under which you will see soon anyway.
Or maybe you listen to the episode and then on fourth spot we have Yarnum. So

PixelFlow first pretty much doing giant numbers first leak competitor. Then we have Magic Sword with less than half the size 8 mil plus plus ad revenue. And then we have Sand Loop. And then there's Yarn Loop Net Puzzle around 4 mil. Oh, sorry 3 something. But it was 4.5 plus 30 days. I think this is the if I go through they're still scaling up. So we need to a little bit wait until they hit again the
Surely must be all over this, right? They must be trying to get them down, right? Yeah, if they see an opening that they will go for it. The question is that if if they're already here, maybe there's no openings because you know this is not some random company from Asia or or whatever. So like it's quite easy to reach reach.
Exactly.
And then we have Yeah. Just like under it stuff like Gecko out which is Role. If I understood correctly, this one is going already on downward trajectory if I'm not uh mister. Ah okay. Record revenue sorry 100k a day already. Yep. I've seen seen few clones of al also of

this one and then there's nit out which is again Role and then there's drop the cat by
number seven. Well done again rolling and then beats out way. Yeah, we'll get that later. Anyway, so we're pretty much on top of the whole category here as we reviewed most of the top ones and yeah obviously talking like sword is the way to grow the puzzle. Ooh, way to grow. Of course, way to grow. It's great.
Felix, anything on the UA side?
UA side? I wouldn't even know, but I can talk about Admon if you like.
Ah, sorry. Admon.
Yeah, you can go UA. It's fine.
Yeah. So, uh, if you go just to if you open the main page on PixelFlow and then yarn loop, I'm going to show you one thing and that's what I'm basing it on here. Right. So click pixel flow here at the top
and look at the session length here.
Session length
50.3 minutes a day, right?

Mhm.
And then if you open up yarn loop and show it as well here, you see here 11 minutes. So like if this is true, this is heavily affecting the ad revenue, right?
It's
I don't know how much we
look how can it how can this be true? you played the game. It's It's impossible. It's 10 It's 10 minutes. It's not even one level.
The levels are quicker on Pixel Flow, though. So,
I would still consider this since the Tower still needs to like reassess the newly grown explosive growth.
Yeah. So, basically, when I did the calculations, I came up to 15% ad revenue, which is a function of the 86,000 users, right? And the super high AP revenue, right? So when I did the same calculation on a lower AP, so like earlier in the month, it's pretty much like 25%.
So it's more of a function of that, I think, but it's still earning a lot of

revenue, right? But it's still it's not going to be a lot of ad revenue when it's only 86,000 people, right? It's all based on DAU. And if you don't have
Yeah, but it's that's nothing compared to how much adap revenue is earning. So it's always going to be out of whack until they grow the user base, right? So yeah, I put the ad revenue as a total somewhere between 15 and 20%, but it's not going to be more with the small user base.
So you're saying that yeah, 20 to 15% now, but with the like projection of bigger bigger
earlier in the month it was like 25 27%, right? So closer to 30, but
like as it looks right now cuz it's making so much IP revenue like it can't be that high as a percentage.
But the percentage in your opinion will increase as they grow in scale. Not the revenue. Revenue will of course grow but I mean increase with users, right? And then it's going to be a bigger portion of the overall cake. Right.
Okay.
Mati has something I know he probably can't say. like I can't I can't say

anything but my
my feeling you know like
I like feeling feelings are good mate share your feelings.
No no I mean in my in my humble opinion it's definitely it's it's more I would say it's anything between 30 to 50 rather than just 15 25 but what do I know? munitions am I feeling
because of the
I'm basing I'm basing the calculations on 86,000 DAU and against and against uh 3.4 million a month in APS right
think about this
Jacob go you know what [ __ ] it just give me the screen
you know what we discussed with Pixel what was their main uh app 100% Yeah. So if we look here as well, let's say not there, but here and we do like first few ads, it's pretty much all up.

And even if we go here and do a little bit of
Oh, wait a second. It's pure [ __ ] up loving
like 90% uploading. Okay.
Yeah. So
and I know
Yeah. Think about
I know for a fact right that blended rorowaz campaigns like out of all the top spenders is pretty much everyone who does scales on blended rorowaz has interstitials and if you're scaling on blended then you're really scaling and you're loving life right so then it can't be 15% ad revenue there's no way
exactly [laughter]
that is at least 40 to 60% ad revenue
so basically sensor tower data is not reliable
no no it's not like it's it's reli liable, but you need to still have the context. And since we have the context from the pixel flow episode and we know like how huge it was thanks to all the all the information that was shared and everything and it was purely applied. So if we apply that logic and it was 50/50 and we apply this logic here then it

can't be just like pretty much lower than 40 or 30%. So it needs to be anything between 30 to 50% by kind of like the upk.
Yes. No,
exactly. Because I was I was talking about this last Monday and I thought like it's okay. It's 2 million per in last 30 days. If we do 50/50 then it's four already four. So now it's definitely more
right.
You know you know what I think then as well I think the DA is probably double
at least because I double the DAU then we're at 45% pretty much right in adven that you know that recalculates.
Yeah. it was already recalculating and and a lot of different uh different games were recalculated after we kind of started looking into it. But again like I mean it makes all the sense that this is pretty much a huge game. So kudos to Spy Games.
Although again if you want to scale you can't have four 624 creatives guys.

It's just not going to cut it anymore.
This is not great. This is a starting point and as you know and if you're listening to this podcast and I know you are then you need to aim for d at least double then that need one more digit there at the beginning. I mean, kind of like look look look. It's I mean, it's a big company and they know what they're doing and they scaled few games and they're really solid Europe, but it's like if you do 6,000 creatives, it's a lot of creatives.
You don't want to do so much scaling because there's like this inevitable
there's risk, right? There's a legal risk here.
Yeah. So,
yeah. Come on. Like, if there was a risk like why would you just launch this game?
Yeah. But would you spend 700 or 800k a day if there was a legal risk and there was a precedent that another game had been taken off? Like would you open up your company to that risk?
It's a very very denment.
It's a slippery slope. Maybe.
Yeah, maybe. I mean, maybe still.
Yeah. I mean, we will see. Although, you

know, like if we do this is just 50. They said I couldn't make ads without [music] the dev team. They said I couldn't understand the tech. Guess what? I just made a fully working [music] gorgeous top to play while eating noodles and watching trash TV [music] and taking care of my daughter. All thanks to Playable Maker. No code, no stress, no [music] [ __ ] playables, which is already three times more than the last last asylum. So maybe this is pretty good for for Apploin, right? So I mean if you're scaling on Apple and you have the blended ROS campaigns which is fine then you of course you don't really need thousands of creatives but you will need it eventually and where you should start already now or yesterday right so this is fine like all the different videos we can see like okay this is scaling now here
that's great it's really nice

good yeah right it's pretty good it is pretty good and obviously this is not in the And but it's really high quality.
Yeah.
Really, really nice. I have one.
You see?
Stop. Sorry. Sorry.
You see what's there? Go into the creative if you notice something that's not matching something.
Yeah. Yeah. I Yes. I believe
you see it, Felix.
Yarn flow. Yes. Which means it's not yarn loop.
Yeah.
Anymore.
This this yarn flow was
the original. Yeah. was they
Yeah, that's what I'm saying that they're still using the creatives from the
the old creatives. Yeah, they were using the old creatives. So, I mean, it was Yes.
But one second, I want to show you this.
Oh, there we go. Hello.
Look, man. Like, look at this. Like, this is such a great concept or let's call it inspiration because look.
Yeah.
Is that their character? They're ch Oh, that's great.
This is this is amazing. This is amazing. And you know,
going to copy this next. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Well, man, I'm already I'm already using this for one match. That is like
I just saved match three 100%.
It's like I came I came
I already did this. It's just
It makes all the sense.
Yeah, it it works like it's all near danger near that situation. Neat.
Near that situation. The thing is like this is pretty much Oh, well, you don't you didn't see this uh this level, but I already played it in the game.
Is this chicken from something? Like I think this see this face
like this chicken face. It seems like very familiar.
This is how you look like when you wake up.
Anyway, no.
Right into that one, [laughter]
literally.
Yeah, the but the chicken is actually uh the level in the game. And I'm not sure minion is good. You're right.
Fake minion is great. Yeah, this as well. There are also like these minions in the in the actual game. So you have
Yeah, they already had I guess all the art from the previous
Yeah. Like like why would you change

these or Oh, here we go. We have all the
It actually reminds me of the match factory red minion if you know.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of match factory or whatever. Like it's for which I'm guessing like it's an evolution of it.
Why is this not in the game? This is a great concept.
So
like it doesn't need to be in the game with much. I mean,
I know, but like I would have to be in every fifth level.
Yeah, like a mini game. Yeah,
you don't really need to have this in the level, man. Like, you still you're doing this.
No, I want to play it.
No, no, man. It's like the thing that offsets the fakess of the creative.
But then nobody cares. This is not as fake because
What do you mean nobody cares? Play every [ __ ] Player game. They have the spin puzzles like every third level.
I know because there it was it was too that was that was fake. You are using here the main mechanic of the game. you're using yarn, you just you just added one layer on top of it, which is the dragon and the near dead experience. Of course, I well, the thing is I'm not

sure if you implement this in the game, it would help you in some way because there were there were examples when people actually implemented the fake miniame into the game and it did absolutely jack [ __ ]
Man, you can ask Royal Match. Well, but the royal match I didn't say anything. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. Maybe. So, again, this is great. This is also pretty great. I'm just guessing they don't have that much time for optimization
optimization
of this of like early funnel like they're most probably they're struggling with like keeping the content cadence on the like new levels and
sounds more like yeah like a content problem right now and then as soon as you hit plateau at some point where or well I'm still thinking like the retention is pretty solid. Yeah, by the way, seems that this this is probably already their biggest game because I'm looking here at Tile Busters which

peaked at 190k IP in 2023.
Not everything is in sensor, my friend.
I know. I know. Just saying that what we see.
Yes, I can tell. Not yet. I don't know for sure. Maybe I know.
Wait, wait, no, no, wait, wait. I I get it. I know it. Wait, wait. Mate, how do you feel? It feels like you want to talk about some more feelings here.
Yeah. Yeah. I my gut feeling is very strong and I I usually listen to it. So my gut gut feeling says it's not there yet but it's going to be if this is going to still like keep growing
which should be playing like David Hasselhoff like hooked on feelings during these speeches.
Well maybe maybe we can we can put it in the back again
and get demonetized.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, fair. I'm not saying so that like the the UA is solid everything is like it looks good. Can it be better? Sure.

Will it need to be better?
Great.
Yeah, this is amazing, right? They have different concepts. So, I mean 50 playables in the last 30 days. That's that's good. Obviously,
if you scale to more than like a couple hundreds a day spent, which they're not there yet. Well, maybe they're already there yet. Now I when I was kind of thinking about it and and writing it in the in in the article, I was kind of thinking what like based on the based on my like feelings I think like the daily spend was something like around like 100k per day. So the daily spend 100k because it was still early and scaling and again I think like the the early like let's call it the the first two months of like testing it was like less than 3 months payment period because if it wasn't like they wouldn't be scaling that much right and now they're close to whatever three to four maybe and if they grow like

maybe it's going to hit like six and it still is going to be like amazing because if this hits like six. I mean, it's can spend way more money and it's still going to be viable. And this is an absolute AI person.
There we go.
Yes. Yeah. It's 100% AI, but still I mean
looks quite good.
It's amazing. Yeah.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these discussions where like, you know, ammo bear got taken off and how you basically justify or like how you decide how much UA you're going to spend, right? Because As long as that payback is not paid back, you know, it's a real big business risk, right?
I still still can't believe they were going to take they're going to be taken off the store.
Why?
I mean I mean I don't know how these lawsuits work. Like I don't have enough insights there. I know they're done in America. That's all I know. But like Yeah.
Yeah. I don't I don't I don't believe that. It's still I mean it's solid game

inspired there. Sure. But it's still different
certain extent. So yeah.
Yeah,
pretty good. And they're definitely running a lot of Wait a second.
Yeah. 50% on there. Yeah. 50% double the DAU and add 50% more like double the ad revenue. Right. I'm I'm I'm betting that they don't uh don't get taken down.
Too different.
Also look, let's call it this.
This is not some random company. They know what they're doing. They have giant investment behind them. They have the legal team. They not shooting.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. in this way
neighbor
bro
or you know come on
no bro Turks man they're notorious for fighting each other
sure but this
doesn't make any sense man
let's cut the crap so
it's it's Saudis now let's let's be let's be like clean here is is Saudis now and the the other thing is that if if you can you take your chances that that's normal so I'm just guessing that this is is safe from from from the take

down
anyway.
Anyway,
I don't know enough about legal, so I'm not I don't even think I'm entitled to an opinion. Let's end it here, though. I think we're just going to talk ourselves silly.
But we we'll definitely keep an eye on this on this whole sword genre. Maybe we'll do an emergency episode if this gets taken down again.
You mean again? Maybe. [clears throat]
Like Emma Bear.
Oh yeah, sure. So, great stuff. Spy games. Uh amazing game. Fingers crossed you can grow this
smart iteration. Finally paying off the pipeline and the template. Kudos to the team.
Perfect. Thank you very much guys for listening. Please if you have any comments share them in the video and join us.
If you have any feelings
Yeah. If you have any feelings
feelings
please. Your feelings are most appreciated.
Tell us on Slack or in the comments.
Tell us on Slack.
Waiting for your feelings. Can't wait.
Thank you very much. Ch.