Tools and Tactics That Help Small Game Studios Nail Big Results

[Music] This is Peggy Unsaltz. This is Pocket Gamer. And this is the opportunity to also congratulate Dylan Aguar who is managing director Griffin Games because you've done it. You have just brought out a new game in December, so very very recently. Yes. Um, first of all, how's it going over there at Griffin Games? Uh, it's going good at Griffin Games. The team is really strong. They're putting a lot of effort into the game and we're optimistic that it's going to work for us. Well, I will give you credit for this. It's a mining game as we were chatting about. You know, you mine resources, you build your ship. There's a lot of events which is really important. So, you've done something really well building the game mechanic into the monetization model, which is what everyone's supposed to do, and you can't back engineer it.

You cannot backward engineer it. So, tell me about that. You have these uh events. What are you using those events for? Is it to test the game, understand the audience, make the money? Uh, a little bit of everything. Yes. Um, so primarily, of course, the main purchase events are there, the ad monetization events. Uh but for us it was important to understand how far the user is getting. Uh so in the early testing to what level do they get to uh to which planet do they get to and we found out early on people were finishing the game which for us was a positive sign okay we need more content um and then from there we we went on to understanding which events are people participating in uh what items are they purchasing. So this is uh in a way how it went. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's important input that will tell you how to expand the game. Um, I'm also hearing a lot in the industry about sort of like when do you introduce the monetization elements

because it used to be you wait a little bit and see what's resonating but hey, we have examples like white out survival. You just jump in there and start with the offers. Uh, it's a good question. For us, we waited a few weeks before putting in our monetization. Um, but that's because we first want to know the CPI and the retention, but it came pretty quick and that's the focus now. We're uh not a few hundred person company. So, for us, it's just one step at a time. Which new thing do we want to try? Which new type of monetization to see if people engage with it. So, for a game like ours, it was understanding, do people want to buy new ships? uh do people want to buy new weapons and then going in this direction. If they didn't then we could at an early stage pivot rather than putting in something that we know will work uh like a login calendar. You just started so we won't go there entirely but I'd be really intrigued to

understand you're thinking about the live ops and the events because you already have conversion events that I can buy and I can build my ship but later on you know speaking as a publisher you have to think of these things early. what are you thinking about now? Um, it's it's a very good question. So, we do have a long list of live ops you want to put in. Uh, and so, for example, for us, we started basic with an event that runs over the weekend. So, for three or four days where you have a special planet that you have to mine, it's limited time. There's limited purchases, limited ads you can watch as well. And it gives the players something new that they can do where it's a completely different progression. So, it's like they have the fun experience of starting from the beginning and they still have their main uh gameplay. Um, of course, we look for inspiration from some of the big publishers like White Out Survival or Archiro. Um, but it'll take time. Again, we're a small team to get in all of the live ops we want. The most important for us is we just do

it one step at a time, make sure that the players enjoy it and we'll see that in in the metrics ourselves as well. So there's also an interesting question around the content itself. I'm just curious how much you've bought into and thinking about yeah the AI tools and all the different ways of being able to scale it because you are a small team and I was talking to people and they're like you know hey we love these tools because they are superpowers for us. Yeah. Uh, absolutely. So, we are using AI tools. It's one of, let's say, the secondary foundations we have is to make sure that we're being as efficient as possible. So, for example, the team is using chat GBT often to make sure that it understands what we need to know. Um, we have used it as well in the creative side for marketing. So to make uh different videos or image assets for inspiration as well uh even a little bit in the game because it helps the artist uh just get through things faster. And

yeah, I mean it's definitely a very powerful thing that we're using. Definitely. It's also not just the creative, it's the marketing. I'm fascinated by how many companies are beginning to understand how they can use it to look for cohorts in a different way because you you put a different a different perspective on it. You know, it is AI but very much humanass assisted knowing what you're going after and then trying to figure that out and sort of again try to pull that back into a strategy. How are you approaching it at the market because you are you're not just managing director, you're head of marketing. Where does it come in in the marketing and the strategy there? Uh so one one good example is I had a vision of what we want to do for a playable ad. Um, and I have the vision. I understand what it looks like, but I can't code HTML 5 so well. And in this case, it was a good use of AI and it helped us make our first playable ad, which was working better than our videos. Um, and of

course, there was a lot of tweaking along the way, but it was through the help of AI that we that we're able to make this ad actually. Yeah. And ads, of course, they also give you insight into the product. Is that how you're using it as well to sort of understand not fake ads? I didn't say that. I mean just understanding the ad experience, how that works into the player experience and then you know making that into this this feedback loop. Uh yes. Yes. Actually early on with previous games we would use the ads to see, for example, should we make a game that's pixel art or should it be 2D or should it be 2.5D? And we would then uh change the game in the very early stage. And this helped us decide okay uh this art style works better for us. Um and this was using the ads to tailor the game experience because more players were engaging with this ad. They wanted to see more of this. So that's what we

made. So you recently launched it and there's a lot to learn from the data. There's a lot to bring out of that. But um when you're looking at where you want to take it, we can't ignore the fact that it's not easy for indies. You're not a major company. Not yet anyway, John. Although maybe who knows, this might be the interview that that's knocks it in knocks it out of the park. No, but seriously, when you're looking ahead to that and you're thinking about your team and your budget and everything, managing and balancing, how do you keep that balance? What's some takeaways for our audience because they also are trying to do exactly this. You're doing it in real life. What are some takeaways learning? Uh yeah, very good question. I mean, I think for me the number one thing as a marketer is to make sure you're doing things profitably and making a game that can sustain your business. Otherwise, you wouldn't really be able to do it. Uh so this for us is

an early indication and making a game that's fun. So something that you and the team believe in uh that you enjoy doing and just making sure that the end user experience is is very fun because for everyone it's uh a positive experience. So for example uh with Planet Crusher the team really enjoys it. We're looking at the numbers like daily together. We're very hyped for the weekly releases. Uh, so make sure you're having fun. Um, make sure you can hit, you know, the realistic goals you want. So the rorowes numbers and keep trying. So this wasn't our first game. Uh, we did many, many failed prototypes and that's a normal part of the process. Uh, and just keep trying with your next idea. I'm glad you didn't give up because I was watching the company before and this one this one sounds like a winner. You've got you've got conversion events, live up strategy. You know where you're going with this one, Dylan. I wish you all the best with your game. Thank you

very much. Thank you. This show is all about how to do your job better, how to make an amazing game, how to market it, and you have a say. So, if you have a story or know someone we need to shine a light on, then we would love to hear from you. We want to hear from you. We want to reflect the reality of the mobile games market in all its wonderful complexity and strangeness. So if you have any suggestions for us, if you have any feedback for us, you can always get in touch. You can email us at podcastpocketgamer.biz. You can find us on Twitter @pgbiz and you can reach out to us through the pocketgamer.biz website. If you're interested in listening to all of our podcasts, you can find them at pocketgamer.biz/mpodcast. and we would love to hear your thoughts on future shows and we've got you covered on all the major platforms. So subscribe to the audio podcast as Brian said, look for us on YouTube. If you

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