Gaming in the Middle East: Inside Abu Dhabi’s Big Bet on Games

[Music] Marcus meller Havoc welcome to the podcast thank you so much director of Abu Dhabi gaming that's right who are you and what do you do uh s Marcos as you as you already mentioned I uh I'm the director of ABAB gaming so what that means is the idea for us is to build a gaming ecosystem in Abu uh and so we have a department called gaming and Comics under the department of culture and tourism which is an Abu Dhabi government entity and the gaming side is my remit it's what I look after so we have three main pillars uh which is talent development uh job creation uh and uh Community engagement community building right the whole idea of it is ecosystem Excellence ecosystem experience right so we want there to be uh a full kind of non-stop shop or One-Stop shop where you can get everything that you need as a gaming company or whether you're you want Talent or uh you you want to engage with the gaming Community that's uh that's

what we're looking to to continue building and it's really cool to have you on a podcast because like we're now in uh in abodam in Creative Hub so I talked to a couple of the founders we found you walking around the corridors pulled you in like hey let's do a quick podcast why not uh let's skip lunch and just guys after the TU so you're not born here I'll I'll throw it out there no no are you American no I'm not actually so uh I was born and raised in Brazil uh uh spent most of my formative years in Brazil uh my my dad is German so I lived some time in Germany I spent about two years as a baby in Germany but after uh when I turned 18 I went to University in the US I was there for about eight years I worked there and shortly after uh shortly after I started working in the US uh I was working for a company that they had never hired fresh graduates and it was an IT consulting firm and when the project finished they were like we don't know what to do with you we don't have another project and so they just fired me which was a very formative experience m and I didn't have

anywhere else to go and I had met through gaming actually I had met some uh some people out here and they were like come Toby so I said you know what why not so I packed everything I owned into two suitcases and I came to which year was this this was 12 years ago uh and uh I've not left so I had a 10day ticket actually I had I had a flight and then my leave date was 10 days later and I just never took the leave ticket just came in uh who were your friends so it was it was really interesting I met uh they were they were UA Nationals they were you know from here I met them in college uh actually I had asked one of my friends who was from here and he was like I asked I had no idea about anything here and I asked look if I if I go over there if I visit do I have to wear like the kandora like the traditional outfit and they were like no no no no one of my friends from Romania came over and he didn't wear it and I was like okay yeah fine and I just accepted that and then like an hour later I'm like how do you know someone from Romania like that's so random and then he got sheep as she's like oh well you know we play a game together I'm like dude you don't game like I game

like what are you gaming on and he mentioned World of Warcraft that was the game I actually got kicked out of university for playing that game oh no I went and became a professional World of Warcraft player while after being kicked out of University and then I obviously went back to University CU I got old and I couldn't keep up with the kids anymore so I I you know I met this guy and and that's when he was saying he's like oh you know I know somebody from that game and I was like yo like I play the same game and we became friends and and he came back he graduated came back to work here uh and then I came back and at the time he had some uh friends that were working at mubadala so I met some of them mua is the uh wealth fund correct yeah so one of the largest Sovereign wealth funds and uh you know at the time uh I he was working there uh actually one of his friends was working there and so he was like Hey I may know someone in the IT team so I said sure why not and then that was my journey that's how it started so I spent seven years in mubadala and then I spent four years uh in the Department of Education uh so there was a project to create a coding school

in Abu Dhabi because the whole point uh of what Abu Dhabi is trying to achieve over the next 10 years and 20 years is a knowledge-based economy and so education is hugely important which is one of why one of our pillars is talent development and so they brought me in uh over for the coding school which was a very disruptive institution I had told them never worked in education I have no idea about education they're like good we're looking for something different and something weird and it's a school with no teachers no classes so it was very different and uh through that that initiative I met our executive director Aiza who brought me on board and uh so I went you know I was like okay I guess gaming is is my calling and so the ability to have an impact into an industry was really attractive to me what's it like to live here because you lived here you lived in where in Brazil did you live s Paulo so Paulo you know not a small City no not at all not at all very different yes not haven't been there but I've have hired people from sou Pao and they're always happy to leave yeah uh so but but what it like

living here versus sa Paulo or where were we in the US I was in Florida uh not the greatest of places um but uh I the weather where the weather's good but there is the rumor not the rumor but there's a whole meme of Florida man right like it's a it's a pretty weird place yeah uh but so I was living in uh the Space Coast in a place called Melbourne Florida uh which is just about an hour east of Orlando and that's where my University was sounds humid really humid uh but really really cool when the space shuttles would re-enter the atmosphere and the sonic boom shake your house at like 5: in the morning it would like literally like an earthquake that would throw you off the bed it was awesome but the difference that I find in Abu actually is one of the things that I really enjoy which is a big little city right it's the the ABAB Community is very close-knit it's very small it's very family oriented uh I find ABAB really really welcoming and warm which is very similar to what I had in Brazil it is that Collective Society rather than than individualistic society that that part of the US was really difficult for me to build like

longlasting relationships like here your friends do become your family right because especially your expat friends are also expats here right so you're learning things together but your National friends are so welcoming and so warm and you know that was a culture that they grew up with and it reminded me a lot of Brazil but it wasn't s Paulo s Paulo is huge um and that's one of the things that I found when I was in s Paulo and actually uh visiting Tokyo was that you could run into someone in the street and you know for a fact it would never see them again right like 21 22 million people what are the odds of you running into that same person again just never happen so that that concept of anonymity in one way is fun but in Abu Dhabi your reputation sticks with you and so people here who are good and honest and kind are the people who survive here and Thrive here and stay here and I really appreciate that aspect of abhi I find that really really nice because it it allows you to really be comfortable and safe and secure and understand standing because the

community is so tight-knit because everything is so close and it's it's there's everything that you need Amazon delivers in one day uh you know you can get anything from anywhere in the world there's all the different stores in the Cuisines but it's not some giant Anonymous City there's history there's culture I love that so like 3 million people in the city right so actually in the city the city is just around around a million actually just maybe a little under so Abu Dhabi covers about 65% of the land mass of UAE and so there's also cities like Alain there's also the western region where you have Ru Swan and so you get these areas uh that adding up to a total of about 3.1 to 3.3 in Abu d as a whole okay but the city is actually much more intimate than that and so there's also it's also spread out because the city itself is an island so the main Abu Dhabi Island which is like you know old school Abu Dhabi and then you have all the ancillaries Yas Island where we are today sadad Island and then you have also Maria Island re Island and so and then you also have towards the South more the industrial area the the

Musafa area and that's you know the the city has grown around itself go okay that makes sense because it's very Suburban when you drive right like there's a lot of uh tow houses yep you know there are highrises there are all of that but a lot of town halls it it reminds me of La a little bit yes uh in that sense like like people live in their own big houses with two big cars right yeah and and but the interesting thing about that is that you don't have to drive that far to get anywhere we drive fast like I I mean it takes me like 30 minutes to go from here to Sadat on like 100 km per hour yeah yeah I would say compar to European city true true yeah I could uh yeah there's highways and stuff like that but my work commute for example my previous work commute was the longest I've ever had it and it was 35 minutes yeah and so it was like I was like oh my God this takes forever but like there's people that commute like an hour and a half to two hours a day right in like places like London like LA and so in that case like I never get stuck in traffic there's no such thing you know what I mean like you

would have to really like plan poorly to get stuck in traffic here uh and that's one of the things that I really appreciate about Abu is that they take their time to do things right uh the leadership here is is very very aware and and really does take their time to do things properly and so there when there's growth the growth is measured and the infrastructure is in place to support and sustain that growth right so it's not like they're randomly like okay we're going to make this giant uh you know attraction Island a million people are going to live here we're going to put everyone there and by the way there's one Road in and out you know what I mean like it doesn't happen they they built the infrastructure first it's very well planned and thought out and so in that way it's it's really beneficial that you don't ever get caught in that oh OB is growing and it's changed and it's different no it's it's growing and changing in a good way the amount of construction that you see outside is insane yeah it like the entire neighborhoods multiple are being built at the same time cuz we were driving with uh with folks who came in for for the Google move yeah and they were like like we've never seen so many cranes

yeah so actually fun fact uh largest concentration of cranes in the world in UAE more than anywhere else we seen that explains a lot because of all the construction but you know uh interesting like my kids's school was uh was opened the week before school started like it was just built yeah uh when we were doing like we were do like uh we were going to go to do School tours like my wife and I and uh they were like yeah look the school's not open so we can show you the renders and so it was a bit of like you know there's that kind of element where you're like oh okay a little insecure about it but on the other hand you trust the fact that you know it's well planned out it's done by a very reputable company and so it turned out wonderful the kids love it yeah and interesting part about the building is because we're in the desert it gets super hot during the day yep so a lot of it is doing done overnight and so it creates this thing is like is things being built but like everything happens during the night yeah and which also doesn't distract from the traffic because it moves in the night so it's like an interesting concept yeah yeah it it it's like I said it's very well

thought out it's very well planned there's multiple different shifts and uh you know during the summer there's actually a break during the day uh where you can't be you're not allowed to work outside and things like that and there's actually regulations where if it's above 50° C there's that there's no labor work done that day yeah uh so there are there are protection laws specifically degrees Celsius and Fahrenheit for a lot I actually don't know the conversion exactly halfway from something being cooked oh yeah yeah we're talking close to the 120s is or probably even more than that yeah yeah it gets it gets uh steamy it's get it gets impossibly hot I've been here a couple times in the summer so but the worst thing is people don't know that there is there is humidity right they're like oh but it's a dry heat it's like no no no you're on the water right so you break a sweat the moment you open up the door yeah yeah yeah so that's that's where people are like oh yeah it's totally manag I'm like oh do come Orlando in an oven yeah exactly exactly as if you set the Hoven on high in Orlando but honestly you get used to it and everywhere you know again it's well planned out there's uh you know parking is underground and so then you you are outside of the Sun and you

know offices have amazing air conditioning system everywhere that's why I'm sick so yeah this is a intense air conditioning yeah they don't play around game devs here at heroic laabs we know that great gameplay is what players love but integrating metagame features like challenges progression and rewards is crucial for retention and monetization but coding them is a tedious and timeconsuming process that's why top Studios have turned to hero from heroic clabs hero provides a complete sweet of battl tested metagame features that are quick to implement letting you spend more time on the core gameplay experience ready to ship fully featured engaging games check out hero today at heroic labs.com so let's let's move back to Abu Dhabi gaming like why why so I'm a gamer right and the one thing that we get often is Gamers especially from the Western uh World in general are very fickle right whenever somebody is trying to get into uh gaming they're like Gatekeepers like oh you're not a real

gamer what we most often hear is anything that's coming out of the Middle East people think is is a cash grab or it's an opportunity to get a return on the investment or no honestly we love games we love gaming uh it's it's crazy like 87% of people here game right with uh with mobile being one of it's actually one of the highest regions in Mobile in terms of Revenue per uh per gamer right per user and given that this is such a passion even from the leadership that games right we have a very young people very young leadership they game they love it so then how do we create an industry around this how do we get people to understand that gaming is important that it is an industry that there are serious jobs that it's not just about playing video games that that you can develop you can there's all these ancillaries there's marketing around gaming but there's also content creation there's also you know Artistry and and composition of music and

storytelling and that's one component of it which is the industry component and the other component about it as well is that there just aren't enough stories coming out of this region right when you're talking about 10% of the population in UAE are UA Nationals and you have a a high population of expats it's very easy to lose sight of the culture and the history and the flavor that makes this place so unique and beautiful and another point that we want is to be able to make sure that those stories are being told that our founders our emirati Founders or our people that are working here are able to share those stories right and I really really love how popular Wukong got because that's a lovely story and it's a great well-made game and for me to have something like that come out of this region would be fantastic that would be the feather and the cap actually uh it would be something amazing to be able to preserve that and actually one of the initiatives that we have now Around Talent Development is a game Jam uh and this game Jam specifically with the Arabic language Center to tell stories as a way to preserve the Arabic language

right to tell stories that were originally told in Arabic to continue telling those stories and that's the outcome of the game Jam for University students so kind of two points one was that people love games here yep so gaming is a massive business we're talking about multi hundred billion dollar bigger than movies bigger than TV bigger than than exactly music all Al together exactly and the part of it is the diversification of economy Absolut going in from oil to all the other sectors gaming being one of them and the second part is that uh culture storytelling through this medium that people here enjoy and using it also to uh to promote your own culture 100% And gaming is also very in a lot of ways very technical it's uh you know you need a specific skill set for it which also helps create that knowledge economy right so one of the ideas that we want always is to have that kind of knowledge transfer right to have people here that are able to pass that on I I actually love the concept of gaming as an apprenticeship where you build that

experience where you have to you know cut your teeth into it it's you know especially nowadays yes there are stories of these breakout Indie developers that come out and just do it and nail it at first and that's great but there's also all these stories where he's like no you know I spent two weeks modeling a trash can and that's that's awesome I I love that stuff because that's those are the ones that really help develop and shape and build that discipline and and I love those stories and I think it's wonderful to have that in no h I understand your vision but what's your mission as a director so so obviously you know like you mentioned our vision is to have a uh a presence in the global stage of of gaming to be one of the the gaming economies that people pay attention to uh that has enough presence for me really what I want to do you know as uh as within Abu gaming is to have an impact in Abu so my my mission specifically is to increase the GDP contribution of gaming into the economy of Abu Dhabi and as a as UAE as a whole and doing that via like I said creating jobs attracting companies uh

developing Talent here so the concept really is that you develop Talent right and then the the companies that want to come here they have a talent pool to draw from but they also bring talent that upskills that talent and does do that kind of apprenticeship as well right and then from the community side we build the consumers right we help them be aware of what's available here now in general they're already game consumers but they may not be aware of what's being created right here in their backyard and that's our job is to make sure that they are aware of what happens here of what is happening here and so they feel that connection you know what I mean that oh wow that that's my homegrown team that's what I want to see more of that's what I want to support and so companies then will even though that market already exists they may be able to tap into a market that they weren't able to do so so directly and so that's what we're trying to do is to facilitate that growth of this uh of this ecosystem that is you know Talent uh and then the talents have somewhere to go to work and then what they produced is consumed by the consumers that we have here The Gamers that we

have here this is a fascinating topic because we're were talking about growth of an ecosystem in order to grow something you need multiple different ingredients it's not only one like if you only have water and you pour it on sand that's going to be over but if there are certain elements of earth and other ones then things start growing and then you're turning the desert into uh into a forest if you will but what are the elements CU like we know that that uh UAE is an affin Abu Dhabi especially is is the wealthiest of all the Ames by far uh but it's not money alone that can give a birth to something that is self- sustaining because that's the whole idea of an ecosystem is to be self- sustaining you need the investment but you need the talent and you need the companies and you need the small you need the big uh you need the the platform companies you need the content companies like how do you think about this like how do you how do you get this this Maze and and understand where to start what to prioritize because there's so many components that have to happen at the same time yeah over a longer period of time cuz that's another one is

like how much leeway like when do you need to show the results cuz it takes time for ecosystem to grow decades it's not easy yeah and so like how do you think about this cuz I'm like even just talking out loud sounds incredibly difficult yeah and not just like oh they got billions it's fine they can do whatever it's like no you can waste billions exactly yeah I mean you can set fire to a whole bunch of money but that doesn't mean that you have an impact right so one of the things that we want to think about is impact specifically it's it's like starting an engine the starter keeps turning eventually spark catches the engine starts and starts running and it goes from there and you know what we've looked at when we benchmarked other gaming ecosystems that we found out is that in general most of the ecosystems had this one breakout like this one company that started it all and then it's like a mushroom right it sprouts big and then it it drops down the spores and then more come and more come and more come and we were kind of like okay well it's hard to manufacture that like how do you create or how do you plan a breakout it's actually quite difficult to do right because in a creative Medium as a whole there's also

an element of chance yes you can you can make your own luck in some ways but there's a good portion of it that is like okay well this random game went viral for what perfect timing perfect recipe perfect everything but a lot of times a game that all of a sudden everybody thought would be amazing gets pulled after two weeks perfect example the new PlayStation that game that they released and then Sony pulled it within two weeks they're like nope uh and they spent you know hundreds of Millions on and so it's not a uh spending money is not a guarantee of success right so you have to do it very wisely number one and so fiscal responsibility is a must absolutely a must you have to be very responsible into how you spend your money you have to evaluate it into into a good way and for us that responsibility carries doubly so because when you're a when you're a government that money could be deployed to the benefit of of people directly you could send someone to medical tourism if they need to and so we have to be very very very responsible and very careful into okay this money can't go to waste we can't just set fire to money we can't

burn it so if we're going to do something smart the idea is to break it up as a strategy and look into the individual components so when you're talking about capital for example we've now noticed that there's multiple pieces of the capital value chain that are uh that need filling so a company may come in and they need a venture support which is they have an idea they're an individual but they don't know how to get that idea in concept into reality right that's the Venture the super early agage the one guy who may need a couple more friends to put something together okay then there's the incubation side okay now that's actually a game but they need to fund the company they need to get marketing out there they need to be able to launch this right then there's the accelerator part where they may already have a game if you're talking about in funding right you have the the very early stage and then you have the kind of preed seed and then you have the series A B series C if anything right and that's the accelerator part and so when you notice and identify that okay where are gaps and then let's look at

the market leaders that can fill those gaps those are the conversations that we have and that's why Google move is so incredible for us because then we're able to see okay what kind of companies do we want to bring here that are able to attract and fill these gaps and it's not we go to them and offer a bunch of money that's not the case right it's a strategic move we have to understand who they are what they're looking for what they want and how Abu Dhabi can fit that Niche to be completely honest it's very easy to sell Abby Abby has a great environment for businesses it is in a great location in the world right so tons of people fly through AB in Dubai every year MH so it's very very well placed geographically the weather is not bad there's no crazy amounts of snow right and the summer you have six months of great weather we're on the water so the education here is fantastic healthc care is amazing so it's not a hard sell it's not very difficult for much I heard from a police officer that there's as much crime here in a year than there's in one day in New York right exactly so

it's also incredibly safe it's a wonderful place for you to live you can leave your doors unlocked your cars unlocked if you forget your wallet and there's news stories every single day of some Taxi Driver handing in $10,000 that they found in their cab and they hand it in to the police right like the these are the stories like that really really help to make this a very very welcoming environment and so it's it's an easy sell step into the future of game monetization with exola the premier partner for game developers seeking to expand their reach and revenue exola provides a robust Suite of tools designed to enhance user acquisition manded subscriptions and streamlined Payment Solutions worldwide unlock new markets and maximize profitability through their customize secure payment architecture and dedicated support team exola powering game developers to achieve Global success [Music]

it's just about matching what that company is looking for versus what LW has to offer and what we are able to do we have incentive packages with when it comes to leases to salary subsidies but those are really about bridging that gap of the cost of living depending on where they are right so uh you know in some places where uh development gets outsourced to yes the cost of living may be higher so what can we do to tackle that to bring that Talent here right and that's where uh that's where Capital deployment comes in and that's where we look into okay how can we subsidize this how can we do this and then when the company comes here our goal is to facilitate as much as possible for their business to grow as Su as more successful as these businesses are the better it is for our GDP at the end of the day obviously it's not a it's not a direct benefit for me as a person but it's a direct benefit for El which is my job at the end of the day and so when we when we we want these companies succeed we want them to do well a question that I consistently ask my team is why aren't our Studios all hundred million in Revenue and what can we do to create

that what can we do to help that to facilitate that uh and that that's why it's it's very kind of an easy sell to bring people here and to attract them to and the idea for to answer your question in a long way the idea is to fill the gaps uh strategically at first and then when that happens it automatically attracts more right because success breeds success right and so you have people that are then going to go to their Studios and say look I've worked at this studio for 5 years now I want to make my game I see that there's a gap in the market here I want to make my game and then oh I've met all these people through Obby let's bring them on board that I'm already here let's let's create our game yeah right and that's what I love about the gaming industry is that it sprouts more because everybody has an idea it's a creative medium it's so free you can express whatever you want right through gaming and so it it allows for that creation of further companies yeah and then there's so many third party tools the engines and everything but the start is is just getting easier and easier especially with AI tools exactly and and also we have a partnership deal

with unity uh we're we're talking with other uh engine manufacturers as well and and uh you know platforms specifically to leverage the size that we have to guarantee them a certain amount of Revenue that makes this place attractive for them or something that they would otherwise not consider uh in order to help our Studios right then we leverage that scale that economy that size that individual Studios might not have but we can leverage that in order to benefit our Studios to give them that acceleration that leg up uh so we have great programs that we're working on like I mentioned with unity that we've had for years where uh they actually help with you know Studios hey you know there's a better way that you can monetize or hey you know what there's better ways that you can make your game more efficient and they actually do these reviews uh priority support you know these are kind of ancillary benefits but these are things that can be the difference between a studio being successful and not what is the typical negotiations that you're having with different companies who are looking at at Abu Dhabi as a destination like what kind of a help can they expect sure uh

so you mentioned subsidies that's one but like what does it mean in in practice like you can bpark it I understand the deals are company based each one is unique and specific each one is unique and the bigger the company the more impact the better deal they can negotiate I get it but like ballpark like what are the elements that are coming to play so one of the things that we don't do uh which may surprise people is actually we don't do capital investment we don't do Equity investment we don't do debt Bas investment we do not no we do not go and say Here's a you know I'll take 10% of your company for this we don't do that at all actually we really enjoy that companies here are fully owned by the people that bring them here uh our facilitation aspect is specifically hey bring your company and be successful uh and we love that so we like to think of it as facilitation right there are salary subsidies that we do which is you know something we can do in the you know let's say let's call it a bar Park figure of 20% right so we subsidize 20% of your salary as an adjustment to your cost of living and we do this uh every quarter and we do we

pay it out right and there's a couple of requirements tax rebates Cash correct yeah cash which is this don't have tax also uh so there is a a minor corporate tax but it's very friendly right it's 9% how much 9% 9% 9% right so it's it's actually much friendlier than even other areas in the region uh which is you know great for us uh so it's you know uh we do offer that kind of cash as in like okay you've paid your employees here's this quarterly kind of review that we do uh where you sub submit a claim and then we go and and pay you out your cash we also offer lease incentives as well right because of the way that uh free zones in El work when you get incorporated into a free zone you need a physical location within that free zone whether it's a hot desk or an office space depending on the size of your team and so we we help with that right so we're in Yas creative Hub which is part of the Creative Media Authority free zone and so we want people to be here because also the more companies that we have located here the more likely that knowledge transfer is to happen you bump into someone getting a cup ofof right start talking about what you guys are working on and so these organic

conversations is very important for people to be around the kind of the similar area and so we do offer incentives around lease as well office space and and somebody wants to to grow their team they need a bigger office okay talk to us and then also the facilitation like oh hey I really need help with this government entity or you know what I'm building a it's not necessarily a game but I'm using a game engine to build a uh a healthc care app to train Healthcare uh let's say cleaners into hosal Hospital cleanliness right okay great let's put you in touch with the Department of Health and because so centralized and the government is so well connected it's very easy for us to open these conversations and say Hey listen one of our Studios here's who what they're trying to reach oh you're trying to do something in education and gaming and gamifying education great let's put you in touch with the Department of Education right so these these conversations really make it to where we are facilitators at the end of the day the main element of any ecosystem is Talent right like in the end right how Abu Dhabi does not have the quantity of talent yet

to build Studios yeah I'm talking today correct 2024 correct correct does not have right what are you doing about that this podcast is brought to you by apps flyer in today's Digital World understanding your app's Journey from Discovery to download is more than just insightful it's essential enter apps flyer the leader in Mobile attribution and marketing analytics that allows you to measure the full potential of your marketing efforts making every ad dollar work smarter with apps flyer that's your new reality dive deep into Data driven insights that reveal exactly where your users come from and how they interact with your app app sler where your app's potential meets performance so actually that's one of the things that we've identified as well and uh so we're looking through holistically end to end like what does talent mean in what level does talent mean uh alub is doing wonderful when it comes to things like ICT schooling and

uh training around technology which is awesome there's actually about 5,000 graduates per year in LW Alan uh in kind of uh technology related fields 1700 of with are very very close to a gaming kind of potential upskilling so we've identified about 1,700 per year that could be upskilled to work in gaming like within 6 months uh with 70% of them being UA National which is fantastic right this is a way to Foster that talent build that knowledge economy and they have that interest because they're exactly right so something we're very proud of but the idea then is okay well how do you upskill them so this is where there's been a lot of of work done via the Ministry of Education Department of Education into recognizing micr credentials and standardizing that which is these certification trainings but then you know recognizing that and and uh accrediting that and having the government see okay this is this one is recognized this one is uh you know something that we need a little bit more time so that's that's one of the things

but that's more towards the higher education right getting more gamification into schools getting them exposed to game engines and things like that we have Studios that are partnered with us we have e Stars we have endless Studios that do game jams and these initiatives that really help from an early age to help educate them and say look gaming is not just playing video games right there's a whole industry that you can build on it and then you get wonderful initiatives which are around the Arts as well which people may not think are related but when you have people stories comping you know I can I can guarantee you some of the most memor games you have had wonderful sound tracks and amazing storytelling right like I still get Shivers when I hear songs from okarina of time those are iconic and so you have you you've had to think of it from a holistic standpoint but we're not just doing that in a way that we're just looking into okay well here's what we can do and let's combine these things we're also actively talking to programs and universities that offer game development game design or Fine Arts uh

degrees that are in those fields that can go into gaming and we're looking to find ways to attract them here right and so we're actually very close and uh do stay tuned uh there will be announcements on that uh soon but we're we're actually looking into saying how we can do that because it's not about the talent today it's not like okay you're talking 2024 we have to plan for the companies that are coming in let's say 2028 2030 right so we have to start now so that they can go through those four-year programs or 2-year programs are you know to be able to be ready those companies are at a decent size they are looking for talent and then that Talent is now ready to go into there so timing is also very critical talking about the companies that are scaling like how do you how can you help those because they're actively looking for not only talent but they're also looking for Capital how being here is beneficial for those companies so that's exactly one of the things that we do is to to facilitate uh you know Capital Investments for them so putting them in touch with the right people that are looking to do the right Investments right so Esports team have come here and have found a lot of sponsorship

opportunities a lot of that through uh ABW gaming kind of opening the doors and making some introductions to them right A lot of these companies are looking for this kind of venture capital funding and stuff like that and actually really interestingly being here is a benefit to them because even if the venture capital is outside of UAE the fact that they're able to offset some of their cost to us really makes their a bit a lot more attractive right and so when that happens it's much more likely that not only are they able to attract funding from Venture Capital but they're also able to retain more own ownership of their company right because their cost structure is much lower because of that offset offered by the subsidies and incentives uh and so there's you know it's a multi-prong benefit uh to being here for a company and also we have a global market which is a huge kind of financial Hub that we're trying to build uh actually we're trying to build What's called the Falcon economy here in Abu dby specifically early December we have Abu dby Finance week if you're interested it's you know where you see the the startups and the capital and the funding that is happening in the region and a lot of it you know they're very good at investing here it's just along

of okay you're you're great at investing in general now let's look at a different industry which is gaming right and putting them in touch with the right platforms and stuff like that and when you see the Venture Capital funds that come here that do gaming investment now the other funds that may not directly do gaming investment now want to go in with them right so you start creating these funds of funds that are really able to unlock Capital got it because the gaming specific funds have the expertise in this area and they can share their exactly referrals to due diligences with the bigger funds that trust them ex and they can come in because otherwise they don't have the investment thesis to make for gaming exactly right so they may not have that uh that confidence to say yeah uh why should I invest in this gaming company over this gaming company but when you have a company that does that they'll just like look whatever you put in whatever you put in I'll match and we go in you know 50/50 on this deal and then but you're the one that kind of is doing the expertise of of filtering out those deals how about Talent so as we said like yes yes there's there's schools being set up there's New York University here you were setting up a

coding school so that is the early phase but also when you're work in such a competitive industry as gaming you also need senior Talent abut you need the experts absolutely and you need the access to worldwide Talent exactly how how does Abu Dhabi gaming gears up to support relocating Talent here so when when the companies come here and they set up here you know they usually are looking into okay what operations can we do here sometimes they'll have a hub somewhere else and so working between those companies what we want to do is incentivize them to bring their people here and have their people work out of here because it helps them it helps the economy and most importantly then we try to get that really early stage Talent those interns to put them in touch and do that apprenticeship right so we have a lot of programs around internship and and pairing and matching inter turns with companies specifically to get that knowledge sharing and uh you know something that we want to do more in the future is exactly that focus more for these companies and offer higher levels

of incentives to the right profile that we're looking to attract here and also we're looking soon to potentially uh maybe no confirmation yet but uh to launch specific gaming visas uh that allow people to come here with their specific Talent uh that would be more attractive for them to come in it gives them more security to be here right their visas last longer they're not tied necessarily to employment so they feel more secure they feel more stable in being able to come here yeah that's a that's a big part because relocation I mean you came in with two suitcases that's easy but when you have two kids yeah that's not easy CU then you have the added stress and if everything is tied up to your workplace right then that just adds more stress especially if that is a startup the the need for security is not only for the security on the streets but it's also the security of of of a job or ability to stay yeah or ability to stay here and not kicked out of the country if company goes under if you lose a job that's exactly right

and so that's why you know it's not just Abu gaming it's Abu as a whole right we need to have make sure that there's you know uh available affordable and uh you know high quality living and then education right so you want to bring two kids you want to know they're going to good schools right so it do we have access to education here how difficult is it to get the kids in school these things all of these answers is the uh kind of efforts of the Abu daab government as a whole which is why you know even though we play a small part in a very large industry and it is you know we're pushing that industry along with Abby it's the entirety of the infrastructure and ecosystem of Abu DH that makes Abu D attractive rather than just the gaming industry for example yeah I've I've relocated people to you know working in the US relocated them to San Francisco relocated people to Berlin or relocated people to Helsinki the success factor is not only if the the person who relocates and and they're able to succeed see them their job but what affects them so much is spouse Y is

the ability to find a Social Circle exactly uh the the schools the kindergartens when one of those things doesn't work if your spouse hates it you're not going to succeed in your work no you'll be there two to three years and and then you immediately want to go out exct even though you're great at your job exactly you love your job but if you come home and every day you have to listen to you know your spouse not liking where she is is then then that's uh that's going to be a no-o and the same thing with like we've had issues with you know you know even like in Berlin kids not being able to go to school or the school is like super far away or the school is like like one of the the person had to put their school in half Spanish and they were not Spanish oh wow and but that was the only school that they could have got and it's like now it's hard for the K maybe it's a good thing for the kid long run they they'll learn a very valuable language but if German and Spanish are being taught to you at the same time as a kid that's going to be a hard couple

of years as a kid really difficult right especially if their primary language was like English for example right yeah so no I think I think what's really interesting about W is is the fact that there is also all different kinds of schools right you have French schools uh you actually have British schools American schools you have uh I believe actually they just opened up a Japanese school and a German school so like you know that that kind of uh is there right these communities are there these uh especially when you're talking about XS as a whole you band together and you find your friends and you end up having this uh this kind of multinational group of friends where you have people from South Africa from Ireland from Russia from you know all different places where it all become friends and it's it's really fantastic uh it's it's one of the biggest benefits of being here is just how your worldview changes how much more open your mindset is because you start seeing things from all different lights and all different opinions and and all different types of effects and uh it's great to see but I agree with with you completely if you don't have all the pieces to be able to live then you know

why Why move for work at that point because you know today more and more people are they work to live not live to work right and so that balance is super important and that's one of the things that consistently LW is doing great at is looking at okay let's do Parks they just opened up well not just for me just but a couple of years ago they opened up hudat Island which is a 10 km beautiful cycling track and then a public beach that is super nice there's food trucks all over there ample parking right like it was planned out really well and it's a great place that you can just go you can go at night go to the food trucks there's like cycling races all the time it's there's never any cars right you can't have cars there it's a dedicated cycling track it's awesome right it's a 10K Loop and then a 7 kmet inner part of it it's awesome and then they built adventure parks so then they built a mountain biking C circuit inside of it and so they were looking at it and saying okay well these are the things that are lacking here what how can we do better Yas Bay they put a ton of

entertainment there a ton of restaurants a ton of things like amenities very similar to what uh London did in the O2 I just recently was there for the O2 at the O2 Arena and there were restaurants all over it and people were going to the O2 not for an event just to go to that area thatas Bay and atad Arena right so these these kind of things uh like I said very well thought out and really put up at the Forefront of people then thinking okay this is somewhere I can live this is somewhere I can be happy how much do you deal with misconceptions like of what Abu Dhabi is my personal experience of this i' I've been coming to UA since 2010 yeah and uh and when when I suggested to my wife wife and she was like very much against even though owned Dubai and she had like a very strong sentence of what it is without ever being there yep based on media and understandable things but but that felt to her 100% and the only reason how we got it over it was like her friend ended up with going to living there and having a child and like all right we can try

and since then like every year we just come here but but there's that there's that very strong misconception especially in the Western countries especially with women of what it is like to be here so you're not a woman but what it is like here to be for for a woman uh you know it's it's actually interesting there are more women in leadership positions in up than anywhere else in the world uh funny enough H that's just that's not just government companies that's in general across the world across the area in boards in anything I've never I've never been somewhere where I've seen uh women being taken so seriously in general not only did like I said when I was working at the coding school we had uh about 35% of UA Nationals that were students of those 35% 65% were ladies they are so educated I've I cannot tell you the number of times that I've worked with someone that has a PHD as a woman from here uh versus the number of men I've worked with with

phds I'll be completely honest like I cannot it's it's 2x the the the higher higher level of Education from from the women here and it's it's fantastic to see not only are they taken very seriously but there is a very very strong push to put them in very high level of executive positions not just my boss today is a woman my previous chairwoman a woman as well a very very powerful one part of the executive Council uh chairwoman of the Department of Education also a minister right so this these aren't one-off stories uh the minister of Happiness of UAE also a lady minister of Happiness yes yes one of the few countries in the world that has minister of Happiness right that's pretty much it right but that is that is what's important which is what other why are why are some places where people live are people happy and why are some places where people live not and then exactly and then how do you quantify that and then how do you do better yeah right and so that's that's exactly one of the initiatives and and so you know a lot of misconceptions I spent a lot lot of time on Reddit a lot of time on Instagram with people like dude you don't know if you've never been you

don't know uh and of a lot of people had to come out here and be like okay I really didn't know uh you know but even in the beginning I was there was a bit of a culture shock where I'm like okay what what is modest clothing what what you know and it's like okay you wear pants and a t-shirt like oh okay fine or shorts and a t-shirt okay that that fair enough right you know what I mean or it's like uh you know if you go to a government building wear pants yeah it's like oh okay well that's actually the same in Brazil you know what I mean so it's not it's not this kind of weird alien world it's actually the same as everywhere else the laws are pretty much the same as anywhere else uh it's it's absolutely one of the easiest transitions I've ever done I I found that in the beginning when I was having to actively think about it the more time went on the more I was like oh well this isn't something I actually have to waste any brain power on this isn't something I have to consistently think about you know everything here makes sense and everything here is is well explained and open and you know it was actually one of the few places where I was pulled over uh for speeding and I was 100% speeding

and the cop was apologizing to me he was like look I'm really sorry to pull you over I'm like dude no you're doing your job like thank you like yes yes I was in a rush I was feeding I apologized he's like no no I'm sorry I have to give you a ticket I'm like no no no no trust me you're doing it's your job like so polite so nice about it and so you know it's not one of those things that is just a kind of this like you know scary thing I I the media likes to paint a picture because that's kind of where what where their business comes from right like their business comes from clicks and so they have to be divisive in a way and so uh it's very easy to tell stories about oneoff incidents or incidents where people were completely taken out of context uh but the stories that are missing are the ones that you see while you're here which is you know I've seen countless stories and just following the news on Instagram countless stories of the leadership here pardoning people who had committed crimes and just sending them home you know what I mean even though they had jail sentences NOP pardon go home I've never seen that anywhere else you know what I mean like I've never seen

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to.com else where the leadership consistently and I don't mean once I don't mean twice I mean often enough that it pops up and it's like 70 uh pardon and sent home you know it's not a small number and it just goes to show you that this isn't what people think it is H this isn't some kind of you know scary otherworldly place where you know no not at all I've never ever ever felt safer do you uh do you have friends who come in from from outside who have never been to to UAE and have certain type of a perspective and they come in and it's going to be different oh yeah oh yeah especially you know a lot of family from uh you know my wife's side from the US uh my side from from Europe and Brazil there's so many people that come here and they're like wow I had no idea right and even interestingly enough a lot of people that I've spoken to recently uh were kind of like oh well you know I I not sure I could ever go to a place where I can't speak freely I'm like well that's cuz you've never been because you

can you know what I mean like that's it's this misconception that where they are there's all these amazing freedoms and then when they come here they're like oh okay yeah this is just the same as where I was uh or better and it's like yeah that's that's exactly right and I love that honestly my favorite thing is breaking these misconceptions I love it when I ever I'm talking to someone and they're like you know I don't know what next move to do in life and I'm like I will duby I got you like if if they want to start a business or something but this is not for everybody so just like not every city is for everybody right and when I would when people would ask me for example about UA I or Abu Dhabi I would I would ask them like what's your where do you want where do you like to travel if you if you love Berlin for example you might not like it true if you love Singapore you like it true so there are you know if you like Bangkok probably not your Vibe here yep uh and and and kind like my question is like more like what kind of a profile what people are you looking for to to bring in not only from from Talent

perspective but is it more like family and then more people in their 30s and up that or is it just everybody like like how how do you approach that is there any kind of a look in that like who who assimilates the best because there's also Dubai 50 minutes away that has a very different profile of very different very and uh and if you want a party like it's not far away it's less than an hour away I mean that's one of the things I do mention between Abby and Dubai it's like where what kind of what do you want for your life what where where do you want to live right if somebody's convinced that they want to go to Dubai there's very little I can do to convince them to come tble duby right like that's uh and very easily you can you can live somewhere drive somewhere else but to be honest for me you know like I said very easy to sell the idea of OB because it's a wonderful place but when you're talking about a profile like especially with Gamers there's a there's a very specific type you know if somebody loves going to their kind of these grungy gigs right in the middle of uh like at the basement of a pub you're not going to find that here right like that's not very like not a lot of small bands not a

lot of Grassroots stuff or Raves or Raves or things like that right so uh it is you know there there there are things where people if they if that's their core value they're not going to be able to find here necessarily and that's that's totally fine you know that's acceptable I had a heck of a difficult time in Tokyo because everything was just so foreign I crave consistency and I crave routine and walking into 7-Eleven looking for gummies and staring at the candy aisle for 15 minutes translating everything and walking out empty-handed cuz I couldn't find freaking gummies like that's when I was like I would never survive here like this this just this is exhausting uh and that's fine that's compl F oh was great to visit I'd probably go back you know we went there for Tokyo game show I would 100% go back but it was one of those things where I would come prepared I would be like okay now I have to you know I have to know that this is going to take some brain power that like you know what I mean like I'm not going to be able to relax but here you know not only is it a great place for a specific

person and and where their the what their values is and what they're looking for but it's also close enough that they can travel anywhere that they want that has those things and so often enough I find that people are able to bridge those gaps just because of also the geographical closeness right you're craving snow aeran is 3 hours away and there are beautiful mountains that you can go ski in you're craving a specific type of party Thailand is so close right uh hours away 7 hours is not bad 7 hours to Europe as well you go Europe or Thailand I flew seven hours to Finland if you were coming if you were coming from London how long would it take it to get to Thailand uh exact exactly exactly right but exactly so this is exactly halfway between Thailand and there and so it's great right you get you can go to Singapore you can go to all the different places but you can also go all the places in Africa yes it's pretty far for Canada the US Brazil South America Etc it's direct flight Australia yes they are direct flights so it does bridge that Gap uh but it's it's very very close to a lot of things and so

that's that's where you know okay you're looking for a gig okay go spend some time in Finland right like that's what you guys do that's your jam not the first thing that I thought about gigs but but this is a recent example right I was talking to someone in the UK they're like yeah I just went to like three gigs this week and I'm like whoa like that's so foreign to me I I never even imagined that but that's super cool right like that's cool that you like that and I you know that's really interesting not something that is that and here but that's super cool right and so yeah it is it is a different profile but not necessarily someone like you're established you have a family okay W's for you not necessarily you're 18 you wanted to go there's great universities here you can come study like NYU Etc uh let's say you're looking to get in with a specific type of company or let's say you're at an at an older age there's a lot of people that actually actually come here as a Reformation like to you know I have some experience I want to try something different I want to come here or I want to start a business yeah wolfred from Audi mob like he's a he's

he's quite young CTO single yeah so so yeah we we talked about it in in a previous podcast yeah yeah there's there's those those elements but but I do believe that there are different phases in your life sure and there's different cities that fit you in your life I absolutely loved San Francisco in my 20s okay it was the dream uh I I loved you know almost every day living there I was terbly happy and I hated it as soon as we had a child became the worst city to live in when when one phase ended and the other one started and it became so bad as a as like a father and with a small child that we left W but it went from like this is the best to this is the worst like that like almost like that inside of a year of like understanding how difficult it is with with that so so that's what I mean it's like there are phases yes in your life and it's not necessarily based on the city but different cities fit you I loved Berlin when I was in my 20s in my 30s I'm like seen this I don't like I don't need this

and uh and now I like other things that in my 20s I thought would be so boring so incredibly stupid like oh I'm going to go to supermarkets drive a car drive my kids to hobbies and stuff like that sounds awful and I'm like I love that yeah exactly that's so that funny enough I came here towards my late 20s right and I was living in an apartment I met my wife we have four kids and so from there I we were actually able to transition and that's one thing that I really appreciated is that when we were in a younger phase we were living more into the City and then we do did move out a little bit more to the suburbs and you know we had now there's a house and the schooling and stuff like that I can drive my kids to school I can uh take them to their Hobbies right play dates that are around they can ride their bikes you know inside uh where we live and and so that transition for me was actually really interesting cuz it was it was fairly easy right when I was in my 20s now to be fair I never went out that much you know what I mean it wasn't it wasn't like at the end of the day I'm still a gamer uh and so yeah I mean you

got kicked out of college for playing I wasn't expecting anything ma exactly and and you know I am a home body to be fair uh to be fair but there is you know it does there is a little bit of of everything for everyone you know if you can if you want to oh go out in moderation but and have a good social life you know in moderation and also stay at home and also have a family it caters to all of that it's when you're thinking like oh I want to go out every single day and it it better be a happening Club every single day like good luck that's not going to happen here that's going to be Dubai yes exactly exactly or or or somewhere else or or a different city and so that in that it's just kind of things that you have to keep in mind it has to be a I would say it has to be a conscious decision right you don't just accidentally uh oh okay well I I'm just going to pack up and move everything right it has to be something conscious for me it was different I happened to find what I wanted by accidentally moving here but that's not the more more common story yeah there's there you know again different pH but also just thinking about like in terms of like you

know you're coming here to build something yeah and if I'd be coming to a city to build something I would also like a little bit less distractions yeah like it was great in San Francisco working because I worked at zingo and it was a campus so they made it so that I could I was there from 8:00 a.m. till 8:00 p.m. because everything was there and like my San Francisco was like one block I lived one block away I would walk there and I would spend my whole day there and then then on the weekends I would go otherwise but I would not see the city or anything because that one place provided everything so I could concentrate on what I was trying to build right uh and everything else was taken care of you can even bring your dog like don't worry about it you don't have to go in the middle of the day with your dog just bring your dog here and like that's the type of approach and so I appreciate the sort of U like everything is is done so that you can focus during the week and on the weekends do whatever go wherever have fun relax you know uh whine wh out and

then on the weeks you don't have to worry about anything right yeah and I think that's that's the interesting thing here where there is you know there are services for everything that you need you can do whatever you want and then you can you know on your weekend if you want to go somewhere else you can you can visit you know like I said you can visit dub Dubai you can uh stay here so there are numerous different options here and and that's that's one of the most beautiful things of living here is exactly that do you want to uh travel do you want to rest do you want to station vacation go to the beach whatever you want that's all here yeah well all right to take it home like what's your advice for people listening to this and be like okay I'm interested to to see if my company would be a fit to to this location you either obviously can reach out to us and we can have these conversations directly where it's kind of like okay let's see you know what are your questions what are your doubts how can we solve them how can we appease them or or you know maybe find that decision for you totally fine as well that's you know that's exactly what myself and my team are dedicated for on

the other hand as well if you're ever curious about the UAE or or specifically AB come come visit uh come see what we have here uh come to one of our events Formula 1 is around the corner it's a wonderful time uh you know there's endless concerts that happen during Formula 1 as well there's UFC here happening all the time it just happened now we have the NBA here which is awesome uh you know there's musicals now comedy gig trbe TR find that interest you one of come out and TR to see it and a good week looking at aabby looking at the different things go Dune bashing in the desert uh you know go uh go fishing you're on the water uh go take one of the boats and go fishing uh there's endless endless things to do there's endless opportunities so I would say experience it make up your own opinions first see for yourself and I think that's when you really start understanding the the possibilities yeah I would say listen to to people who are here because I had I had my misconception about Abu Dhabi like for

for over a decade I didn't come here cuz I was like oh it's probably like something like Qatar like I'm not into that I like Dubai it's cool it's it's you know it's hip things are happening and only only as I started we're planning an event here and I connected to locals here yes uh so people who had moved in and then I asked them about like different things and they puted me out to to certain hotels and so we're like hey maybe we should go there for a for a family vacation with someone other our family friends we ended up here I'm like this is like you know seed for yourself yes that's exactly right listen to people who are here yep uh and and yeah just like with everything you're a smart person make up your own mind check it out 100% but there's also a ton like Facebook groups there's uh Reddit uh you know/ great with kids I'll be honest like we loved it the uh the aquariums here the zoos everything is so kid-friendly designed like it's all about feeding animals and fishes and like our kid were like just loving it and then like we were in an aquarium go I just finish up we're in an aquarium in

in Spain like we stay a lot in Spain as well and we're like this is so raggedy compared to Abu Dhabi like you you get to that that level of like aquarium and Abu Dhabi is like next level Y and any any other aquarium is like this is late to add to that just before we finish this summer there was a petting zoo that popped up in a mall like there was a there was an area of the mall that wasn't built yet they just opened it up they brought in a bunch of zoo it was a petting zoo for the kids it was inside a mall it was air conditioning uh you could feed the animals you could hold like snakes it was awesome they watch a caged animal they want to feed a lamb like an elephant or a camel or a Gira they were like feeding on and a horse and like every animal they were just feeding I'm like this is what is needs to be about my even my son he he just turned forward and he was like okay my birthday I wanted to be in the aquarium we took him to the aquarium he loved it looked all the shark was able to feed oh so cool all right well let's wrap it up yeah so for everybody here uh

I would say come and check it out especially family vacation I'm 100% sure you will love it and then once you're on a vacation maybe that leads to something of a conversation meet up with Marcus come check out creative Hub here for the first yeah Robby gaming that is in here uh but overall like a a very good destination for tourism during the winter time absolutely so take your kids here check it out come to find out if if it's too cold where you are like Finland for example come out here the winter is uh very very mild it's cold all right thank you everybody for listening Marcus's LinkedIn in the description below connect find out more about Abu Dhabi gaming and uh thank you for listening appreciate it for having me on thank you Marcus thank you so much you did it you made it to the end of the episode as a fan of the show it would help us out if you'd subscribe and leave us a review on the podcast service for your choice those stars and likes while a small action on your part mean a lot to us and help to grow the the show more importantly are you a member of the deconstructor of fun slack group if you

have five years or more of games industry experience go to deconstructor of fun.com SLS slack and apply to join join the games industry best professional Community filled with peers always willing to lend a hand or subscribe to our newsletter to get all the latest insights from the deconstructor of fun content creators thanks for listening [Music]