Are guitar games coming back? The story of RedOctane's return

Hi. Hello there. Today's the game business show hasn't officially started yet, but shortly after recording this week's episode, we got wind of a small story that I just wanted to try and sneak in. And it involves Digital Foundry, one of my old sister media brands during my time at gamesindustry.biz. And that little story goes is that Digital Foundry has become independent. I don't know if you don't know who DFR, they are one of the most renowned technical analysts of video games, hardware, and software in the media space today. They were formed 10 years ago as part of a joint venture between an independent gamer network and Richard Leb better who runs it. Um that part ownership was ended up being acquired by IGN when it picked up Gamer Network in 2024 and now Digital Foundry has bought themselves out and are fully self-owned. Um it's the latest development in what has been a a troubled year for the games media and certainly a troubled acquisition for IGN. Um there's been multiple rounds of redundancies at IGN. Uh, and there's been a number of Gamer Network leaders and writers who have left the company, including people from Eurogamer, Rock Paper, Shotgun, and my former stomping ground at Games Industry. Biz. We've also just had some of the biggest names from VG 24/7 move over to Eurogamer as

well. Now, this isn't an IGM problem. They remain committed to its new acquisitions. It just bolstered um Eurogamer and the GameStop. Biz teams. Nevertheless, they haven't managed to convince Digital Foundry to stay. In a statement to the game business, Richard Led better, thanks IN for the opportunity to go independent. and he added, "It's a highly volatile landscape for games media right now, but we firmly believe there's a role for independents, experts in their field to make a difference. Independent media fries on the support of its communities and I hope the audience is excited by the news and gets behind our plans and aspirations for the for the future and I for one wish them good luck." Anyway, let's actually start the show, shall we? Hello and welcome to the game business show. In today's episode, Guitar Hero developer Red Octane has returned under Embracer. A rival to humble bundle emerges. Xbox, Nintendo, Roblox, and Capcom and more [music] announce their financial results. And we take a look at the latest in the row between itch, Steam, [music] and payment processors over adult content. But before we get to all of those,

please welcome our guest host for the week, the manager director of Yogscast Games and renowned finder of hit indie titles. It's Simon Byron. Hello, Simon. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. Thrilled to be here.
Genuine. I've got a list of guest hosts and you've been on that list since day one. Now, for those that listening at home don't know Simon for some reason, he's found and published numerous hit indie games down the years, but is probably forever going to be known as the guy who signed Human Fall Flat at Curb. Um, today you're at Yog's cast, which is a move. Did you say we it was announced? We announced it, didn't you, like four years ago?
Yeah. Yeah, we're we're we're hitting four years first of next month. So, hasn't time flown. But the first interview I did was with you in your previous uh incarnation. I remember very well.
Look at where we both are now.
Yeah. Well, doing the same thing. You gave me some numbers of the games you've launched since you joined YSC games. It seems it seems to have gone well. It seems to be in a good mood.
Yeah. So, we are um an indie publisher of uh PC and console games. Always premium. About to launch game number 17

tomorrow.
And yeah, generally it's gone okay. I mean, obviously the market's uh turbulent and terrifying. And at the moment, uh, 25 hours away from launch, I am I always describe publishing as, uh, as a unique mix of, um, terror and excitement. And I've been so excited all week, but now as we get close to it, I'm terrified. But, uh,
you know, it's it's a heady cocktail. It's why we do it.
Yeah. Well, did you tell me you've had 16 games launched, 14? Is it 14 of them profitable or 12 of them profitable? Two of them really profitable. Yes, I've been very fortunate. Um, you know, obviously every game to us is important. Um, but uh, yeah, out of the 16 I've launched so so far, 12 of them have have been profitable and uh, and two of those have been have been mega profitable. So, as publishers go, it's it's not a bad rate. It's the it's the ones that um, have had slower starts that uh, keep me awake at night than most. Uh, but yeah, generally speaking, I think we're pretty happy.
Yeah. You told me this I've used this

line in so many interviews I've done with publishers down the years. who said to me, "A sign of a good publisher isn't the ones that have had the human fall flats or the bellros." And you know, those are there's a lot of luck involved when something like that happens, right? Um, but it's it's what they do when a game isn't that when it doesn't necessarily when it might fall over initially and what do they do next and how do they react to that and how they support it, which I've often used when anybody asks me, "Oh, what what do you think? What do you think of this publisher?" So, but they've had hits, but you need to look at the games they had that didn't hit. you know, when those situations arise, often studios sort of go, "Well, what can you do?" And if, you know, as if there's like a big red button you can push, actually, let's let's sell some more. Over the years, I've um I've had to have conversations which involve games that have had slower starts. and and yeah, you know, it's it's making sure that um studios recognize that your partners that there's no sort of one contributor to success or failure and that you know, you all put your best foot forward and that you all endeavor to to create the

best game possible. And if it doesn't go as well as expected right from the off, it's it's thinking about ways in which you can hopefully turn turn some things around. And so Yogs, we've had a few slower starts than I would like and I've said to the team at the time, look, next week's going to be difficult, but we did our best and now it's sort of what happens next. But um yeah, you know, those aren't conversations that I like having, but they are important to important to have.
Well, it has been a brutal well since you started brutal four years for the industry. You pretty much set up Yogos games at the worst possible time.
Well, it's it's funny. I I joined Curve just after the indie apocalypse. And it was funny because I've never been, you know, I started my career as a games journalist a 100 years ago and uh I was in PR and marketing for quite some time, but the ambition was always to work really closely uh with game developers. You know, I'm not clever enough to write games myself and so working at a publisher was the ultimate goal. And so I felt once I got there, I felt like I'd won a competition. Uh really excited. And then uh Indie Apocalypse just

happened. I'm like, what games sell this amount? Do they? It was a really good grounding, I have to say. You know, made me realize the importance of rolling your sleeves up and and doing what you can and find what you can and sort of being savvy. And I think, you know, that that attitude has has served me well. You know, we're still hustling. We're still we're still working as hard as we can with our partners and um yes, keeping those fingers crossed. You underell yourself a success, you know, two big publishers. I I I I get very strong impression from the people that are still at Curve, there's a bit of regret that you're not there uh anymore. I'm sure if if if they had a crystal ball, they'd have done maybe done all they could to make sure that you were. Um how are things generally on the small publisher side at the moment?
I'm still really excited about the work we do. you know, four years in, 16 games in, I think we're beginning to hit a bit of a rhythm in terms of what works for us and and types of games that are beginning to resonate with our network of content creators. Hopefully, that the audience that we're building as well. We

pride ourselves really as a publisher that will work with
small studios. You know, it's no coincidence that our festival on Steam is called Tiny Teams, and that's about studios that are five people or fewer. And that's really where I think that we can make a difference. And I was doing some numbers for somebody else recently and I looked at the number of games that we've published that have been from firsttime developers or first-time studios and it's over half and we really do pride ourselves in helping helping people that haven't made games before make games and and it's what we love doing. Um it really does give us a buzz you know being close to the titles that we're working with. I think, you know, one of the biggest lessons I got from Curve was that when companies get big, you know, often you can you can feel quite detached from what you're doing. We're a small team. There only nine of us fulltime at Yogs Games and and and all of us care passionately about the work that we're doing. And that idea of of helping studios that haven't made games before, you know, and and there's

no right or wrong here, but you know, some publishers won't work with studios first games. My view is that if you don't have a first game, you can't get a second game. And so, you know, I I I I I I really do love the work that we do with first-time devs um and and helping them bring their games to a global audience.
Yeah. Take great pride in what we've done, you know, um some of the success stories that that that we've had and some of the lives that we've changed, you know, I'm I it's um with all the turmoil that's in the industry at the moment, I still, you know, I'm still really thankful that we're doing what we're doing. I feel lucky and fortunate to be working where I am and surrounded by the team at YSG games and the wider YSA cast network who who are just brilliant. So yeah, um lots to be nervous about sometimes. Let's talk about that nerve then cuz before we move on to the new segment, you've got you are launching a game to well I guess it'll be today when this goes live today. It's out now UK time.
I see the OGs cast content creators have been talking about it a little bit. It's a batro style thing. Is that right?
Yes. Yeah. It's a lanebased rogike deck

builder. So, um, it involves Batro, which is how I heard it was pronounced. Chris,
sorry. Terrible of me. [laughter] Uh, it involves Batrol Batro style, uh, scoring, but um, I know that there's some rogike deck builder fatigue. We absolutely love them. I don't think there are enough of them. And, uh, this one tomorrow is called the Royal R. It's very special. What's unique about this is it's got perade death in it. So if you if you play deck builders, key element of those games is managing your deck. You know, ballet tree, you start with a deck of 52 cards and and and one of the key strategies is to thin that down. Now this is a game in which you are building an army of peculiar creatures um who have traits and they have abilities that can create these sort of gamebreaking synergies and stuff. It's really exciting and you you buff them positively, but they can also get negative buff through each through each battle. But these effects are permanent, and if each creature uh

reaches the end of their row before the enemy is defeated, then they are removed from your deck permanently. Now, it may well be that you're sending some of them to their death because you want to thin your deck. But equally, you might have a character that you've been buffing over several rounds that through one one misplaced uh play um you know, ends up being removed from your deck permanently and then, you know, it's uh it's run over. It's it's a game I can't stop playing. Mhm. And so, yes, we're really excited about it tomorrow today.
My my Fire Emblem experience means I'm definitely saving and restarting a lot in that game. Um, well, let's talk about some of the news. Um, and this is a news that there's a reason why Simon's with us and your will come on to that because first of all, uh, the news actually broke yesterday that Red Octane is back. Uh, for those younger people out there, let me tell you why that's interesting. Um, Red Octane was um, formed back in 1999 by the brothers Charles and Kai Huang. It was initially a video game rental service. You ordered video games from

them, they sent them out, you sent them back. Um, some of their most popular rental products at the time were hit Japanese games like Dance Dance Revolution, Drum Mania, Guitar Freaks, Beat Mania, those sort of things. This prompted them to develop their own dance mats. And then they even ported the arcade game in the groove to PlayStation 2. So they got into software development. But the Hangs had a bigger idea in mind. They wanted to build a guitar game with a developer they knew called Harmonics. And the Huangs bet everything on this. Nobody was willing to invest the $1.6 million it needed to develop the game. So others put everything on the line, including their houses. Um the game of course was Guitar Hero. Um it had a successful appearance at E3 2005. Electronics Boutique and Best Buy agreed to stock. It sold out almost instantly. Nobody would invest $2 million in the company in 2005, but a year later, Activision acquired Red Octane in a $100 million deal. It was a bargain. Guitar Hero was the first game to become a billion dollar franchise, and nearly 20 hero games were released over the following 5 years. But then the

music stopped. Sales fell away. Activision closed Red Octane in 2010, and bar a brief reappearance in 2015. The Guitar Hero series was over. Um, anyway, now Red Octane is back. It is under Embracer and in partnership with Embracer's own hardware company, Cracked or CRKD, who happen to feature many original Red Octane employees. They've hired a guy called Simon Ebagger who um worked on Guitar Hero in the past. They've got Kai and Charles Huang in as advisers. The core development team though is being made up of people who worked on an open-source Guitar Hero like game called yet another rhythm game or Yag as they call it. The lead developer on that is Alex Jeff. He is the the lead developer on um on the game that they're making here. I said the proper fans of the game are working on it. Now I had the privilege of chatting to Simon and Alex plus the CEO of Embracer Free Mode, Lee Gunard, who was also involved with Guitar Hera back in the day just before this announcement went out. And so before Simon and I have a chat about this story, here is an edited version of that interview. Hello Lee, Simon, and Alex. Welcome to the

show. Um Lee, let's start with you. You're the CEO of this Embracer division. The big question, the main question, why did you want to resurrect Red Octane? Well, and you know, it's it's like anything. I mean, you you did a great history back there, and mine personally goes back to meeting Ken Charles in 2005, joining them in 2006, and kind of being last man out, closing the lights off in 2015. So, of course, you know, through that up and down road, as we call it, you know, there was a lot of sort of love, you know, for these games, but also a lot of learnings along the way as well. I think actually coming out of co believe it or not I sort of curious again about this because was downstairs in my house and one of my kids is playing actually guitar live on Apple TV and I was like what's going on here? Oh, we stole it off your wall and we're all having fun like, you know, so it kind of

got me going again as it were and and and through that time it brings people together and and I think um yeah, I connected back with Brian Bright who was a game lead on GH3 and beyond and we just started riffing on this and and it kind of led us really into the community because we didn't we didn't kind of realize that there was this community that was still there. It was still active and more importantly they were making their own games.
Alex, you were that community making your own games. You made a Guitar Hero like game called Yar. Tell us a bit about that.
I guess just to sort of start from the beginning. Um, you know, just as an introduction for everyone else, Jar is also known as yet another rhythm game is a, you know, open- source plastic guitar game that I made similar to Guitar Hero. Um, and for those who don't know what open source means, it basically just means that all the source code of the game is publicly available. You know, anyone can go about and modify it, make their own changes, and they can submit it and officially we can add it to Jar.

I believe I started working on the project late 2022. Uh, you know, just as a little side project. I got the idea originally when I found the old Guitar Hero Guitar Controllers in my parents' house. I had a lot of great memories with that game. You know, when I was a child, I played that all the time. And you know, I just kind of wanted to capture that feeling again. In 2023, after I worked on the project a little bit, I made Yard public and you know, it immediately caught the attention of multiple different community members in the plastic guitar community and you know, longtime players of the genre in general. And you know, I could tell even at that point, people really really wanted a new plastic guitar game. So, uh, you know, Yar was really refreshing for that community. because of the open source nature of the project, we had a bunch of community members, both longtime people uh and people like me who are a little bit newer to the community uh join the project and we kind of formed a team. As Y became more and more developed and more and more popular within the community, the AR team started to form a very good

relationship and you know good spirit of collaboration per se. Early around last year, the arc team and I got in touch with Brian Bright and then through him I got in contact with Lee and you know we had some meetings there. We uh he showed us the new guitars he was working on which was very awesome and you know at that point the question came up do you guys want to make a game and you know we're honored to do so and the rest is sort of history.
Simon you're leading the studio you've worked on so many Guitar Hero games in the past. Why did you want to do this? What what is your goal? I guess on a I'll start with like a on a personal level. The the goal for me on a personal level is to recreate what I felt when I was working on the Guitar Hero games. Um I loved working on those games because they allowed me to combine my organizational skills and my creativity in a way that I hadn't previously experienced in the music industry or in the video game industry. And I didn't

think that I'd have an opportunity to do something like that again until Lee introduced me to Alex. And I was just like, "Holy this is amazing. We can do this and we can do something great with the community and for the community that's been keeping these rhythm games alive ever since my days of working on Guitar Hero. So, I guess having said that, it's it's almost, you know, a personal goal and a Red Octane goal that I just stated. You know, for me, I want to recreate that feeling that I had of like making these really incredible games. The community and fans were really into. And as a Red Octane goal, I want to serve that community that still exists that's been keeping this genre alive for the last 20 years when they haven't really had much from us to sustain them. Now, Lee, there is another Red Octane connection. Embracer has this hardware company called CRKD or Cracked and a lot of the

team there are actually former Red Octane folks that worked on uh the Guitar Hero guitars. Now this sort of became the precursor to this move into relaunching Red Octane. Can you tell us a bit about that?
We had some young upand cominging you know folks who wanted to get involved in the game business. Um, one of them was a was a streamer actually, you know, was had left school like 10 years ago and had never actually had a what you call a traditional job. He'd kind of just streamed. Of course, he's growing up into his next phase of his life.
Yeah.
And then I said, well, I actually invited him into my incubation cell of, you know, just knocking around ideas. And that's how that came out of you know cracked came out of that in a sense where I paired you hardware was a place where we wanted to sort of explore and really that old GH team that old red octane team was still very active. We were still making things. We were still doing projects over the years for for

different companies you know in the background. So there we we we we formed we formed Crack kind of launched a product called a nitro deck in sort of 2023 and and we announced a product and it was a resounding success. I think these young folks just learn and and just build, you know, in a new way. [clears throat] Not the old way in a sense. Yeah. The old way is let's build some accessories, fire them up down into GameStop or Walmart, see how many we can get in and and and and fight to keep them in. And and the approach there was, let's go community first. Let's go direct to consumer. let's build a community around this and then and then kind of expand out into into other partners like Amazon and as such and and it was um it's been very successful and from that came a guitar of course where where we was like we're into this we we we really think this is a really interesting area and there was a small attachment for one of our controllers that we sort of tested with Epic called the Neos and from that

obviously the guitar yeah we had we had a route to market kind of things. So we kind of did the same playbook as what we had done with the Nitro deck but with the guitar and the reception was you know even bigger than Nitro deck. That guitar you made works with Fortnite Festival which is the rhythm game made by the original Guitar Hero and Rockband developers are harmonics but within Fortnite. Um has that has that influenced this move at all? It kind of it does, you know, open the eyes to to some of the younger folks who might be curious and then, you know, I think with with what we're going to sort of make here, hopefully progress them on to rocking out more and then I and and maybe even to to getting real instruments in the future.
The original Guitar Hero had a budget of less than $2 million and things have obviously changed quite a bit since then in terms of game budgets, but how conservative on you being with the investment in this title? It is conservative. It's not it's not you know

huge. But in the modern times for inflation I would say it's similar to the original gain.
Oh really? And I think you know the interesting thing and and some of the homework we had done is of course we were there throughout the period and we saw even even back then we saw budgets really bloating you know on stuff and and really developing features and things that you know in really quick timelines as in with a bit of an arms race going on between the two games right you know.
Yeah.
Where here we've actually been again quite thoughtful. though small team really fleshing out what we want to do with modern tools, you know, modern engines and and things, you know, I I think there is a path to making games at a reasonable price that have got high production value.
Simon, what can you do now that perhaps wasn't possible the last time Red Octane was around? You know, back when I was working on Guitar Hero, it was box product after box product after box product, you know, disc, put it in machine, play game, and the the ability

to update games, even even to provide quality of life fixes, let alone add features or new content was was incredibly limited back then. You know, one of the big things that we can do now, which which obviously any game has the capability of doing is the ability to more rapidly provide new content to players, new fixes to players, things like that. So, Lee, does that mean we shouldn't expect nearly 20 games in 5 years?
Yeah, we we want to build what we're building here as a as a as a sort of a forever game. And it's easily said a forever game, but you know, it's not we're going to build something, release it, and then the next year there'll be a new, you know, a new [clears throat] game in a sense. I I I think it's it will be built over time, but that will also allow us to build, you know, into other sort of music driven game ideas that we have and and test, you know, because we have this fertile test ground with with because we're so connected with the community. We are part of community actually. That was that was how this came about because we sort of

decided we'll just jump into the community, you know, sort of 8 n months ago and just just be part of it. Let's just be it and then and then see what we you know we can do from that, you know. So so so I think especially in the space that we where we're going I think that's going to be the thing that drives future modes, future features and things like that. you know, it won't be just us sitting in a room, you know, sort of pushing it down onto onto the world because we need an extra feature, you know, to to market this week. And Simon, how are you looking to work with the music industry? Is it the same way that you work with them in the past?
Yeah, it's it's very similar to how it was in the past. I mean, and and at this early stage, we're not at the point where we've established any like specific partnerships or anything like that, but we'll be doing music licensing much the way that we did in the past, going after specific songs, possibly specific artists to be deeper partners with and things like that. But, uh, we

haven't gotten to that point yet.
Finally, Alex, what can you do here now you're part of Red Octane that you couldn't do independently?
Well, uh, Yar was sort of more of a hobbyist project, right? We worked on it all in our free time. So, because of that, there is a lot of differences. Now, the whole team's working full-time on the project. So, we're able to actually, you know, do things as a normal video game would cuz, you know, the open source nature of the project means it's hard to like schedule things cuz everyone's doing things at their own pace. But, you know, here at Red Octane now, we're full-time. So, I'm very excited to actually get started and create something. Well, that was Simon, Alex, and Lee chatting about the return of Red Octane. And thank you to Embracer for that exclusive interview. Now, Simon, when I um researched that interview, I had to dig through my drawers to find an old MCV that recounted the history of Red Octane. I did this feature in 2015, and the big picture at the top of that feature was you on stage playing Guitar

Hero. What was it? Was it download? Was it of White
because the White Festival on the main stage? Yes. We think there were about 35,000 people.
Absolutely bonkers. Such a huge game back then. We forget what a phenomena that absolutely was. And I can't believe it was only ever 5 years. Um so anyway, I thought I had to get you back. I had to get you on the show uh to talk about it. When did you get involved in in the franchise?
I was involved right at the very start before it was even um officially coming out in Europe. Um Kelly Sumner was um I forget exactly what
he was the CEO of Red Octane. Yeah. was this was back in the day when games would release um different times at different parts of the world. So it was already out in the States.
Yeah.
Wasn't in um Europe. And uh he was a friend of the company that I was working at at the time uh which was a PR agency and he'd sent it over and said take a look at this. We're looking for somebody to uh help run the PR in Europe. Um and so I took one look at it and thought I have to get involved in this. Was

immediately besotted with it. I remember it it came in like just before Christmas. So we had to write the pitch I think over Christmas that year. Um but Red Octane was was was Kelly and then in Europe it was uh Dave Noble and Jerry Tucker and that was it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And uh the company I was at Barington Harvey was hired to run the European PR which I led and it was the most fun I'd ever had in PR. It kept me at that job for much longer than it should have done. But yeah, I was there right at the start. So, you know, I remember going to see Gibson. So, the controller was modeled on a Gibson SG and but Octane had done a lot of work with Gibson over in America and I went to uh meet the uh guys in London and um we ended up working really really closely with them. The first meeting that we had was you know we sort of rocked up with this plastic SG and went brilliant that we're going to be doing this thing and they were like what uh you know what is this thing? I'm not sure that they quite knew what to do with us at the start. Um but yeah uh it was it was Dave Jerry and me

uh we hired um a lot of agencies across Europe but yeah we were there right from the start and I have to say those early days when you look back now it's impossible to think of it as anything but a a mega hit but I remember uh having a meeting where we looked at the first week sales in the UK because it was 60 or 70 at the time which was significantly more than any other you know, obviously a game on its own, but it came with a plastic controller. But, um, sales in the first few weeks were terrible. We were really, really nervous. But then, you know, going from those moments, uh, through to, um, I think by Guitar Hero 3, it was like the fastest franchise to a billion.
Yeah, it's it's the first video game franchise to ever hit a billion.
It was such a thrill. Um, and so yeah, I was working on it from before the first one up until Guitar Hero 5 and all the bits in between.
There was apparently uh there was 17

games released over that 5year period.
Well, that was part of its downfall, wasn't it? I mean, so when we did the first version, um, you know, that was all covers and again, you sort of forget about these stories. We first demoed it, um, me and friend of mine, colleague at the time, Leo Tam, we first played it public publicly before it came out. the MCV awards, we played um Take Me Out by Florence Ferdinand was the first time that we did it. And what I what I'd noticed with that game, whenever you showed somebody that controller, whenever they s put it over their shoulders, they would stand back a little and their legs would go further apart. And that was something that we always tried to do whenever we were introducing their game to press or public. And so it started off as like a collection of 30 or so songs I think that were cover versions and they were so accurate. There was a there was a court case by some of the bands that were suing at the time because they were too realistic through to 17 games. no one could keep track of them. And and in

that time, Rockband had launched, you know, and that was a game that was creating an ecosystem where one game would share libraries and it was always slightly awkward with the earlier GH games because they were completely separate. And yeah, and I think ultimately that number of games in that period of time with new hardware every major launch almost every year, it's probably what played a part in its downfall.
And this new one they're sort of taking in the approach of one game. Well, Gus, you would do right today. You wouldn't you wouldn't do that in 2025. Leo Tan, you mentioned my memory of him is on stage at Donington playing Guitar Hero.
Yes. You got to show me some stories. Well, you know, you work with some big names.
Yeah. I mean, throughout my career, I've always, you know, as as a fan of games, somebody spends too much money on games and plays them too much. I've always, you know, tried to to think about, you know, what would I like to do? And so when Gibson a few meetings in said um that they were sponsoring the third stage at Donington, they said, you know, so is there anything that you can think of to do, my first thought was, I would

love to say I've played on stage at Donington. So I said, you know, well, what we should do is we we should get some kids on stage. Obviously, I'm going to go first. We um and so me and Leo went up and did it. And um it was his first week in the job actually. Wow. As far as I remember, no one had certainly no one had done it to that degree before. I think that there there might have been performances or but well certainly you our first I think we introduced the first game by busking in Leicester Square um Leicester Square tube station. Uh but we're like okay cool. So this was the on stage of the had donington in the third stage. But so we had a brand new PlayStation, brand new controllers, right? So nothing go wrong. Um it was the first time we've done it. So we get on stage maybe a couple of hours before we're due to go on and we were going on the third stage at the end of their performances. Still have a couple of hours and so we go great. So we get a PlayStation 2 I think it was out of its box. Great. We get

these new controllers out of their box. And and of course the first time you turn a PlayStation, you have to set it up. And um we couldn't get past the language selection screen for some reason because we've not bought traditional DualShocks with us. And I think for some reason it like some of the controllers weren't weren't registering.
I said to Leo first week in the job, uh I said, "Look,
we're a music festival. There are bands here that will have PlayStations on their coaches. Don't know how you do it. Get into where the bands are. uh tell them what we're doing and promise them whatever you want. Uh but bring back a jewel shock and and to his credit he did.
We played on stage and we were we were really worried about it. Um I think we opened with uh maybe Ace of Spades. Do you forgive me if that's not right? But um we were super nervous and it went well and and when we when we looked out and saw a mosh pit forming, we're like okay this is pretty good. We got some great footage and I found out afterwards that uh Live Nation who run down festival you know at that time lots of

games companies were going to music festivals. So I think Ubisoft were there and yeah you were there and whatever and I and
yeah I got invited by Ubisoft to that festival.
Right. And so um I was talking to the guy that we worked with and he said we couldn't believe what you were doing and actually during that performance we'd all come up but to the side of the stage cuz we thought you were going to flop and they were like come to us. Come have a look at what these idiots doing. It went incredibly well. So when um when Gibson suggested that we return, we're like, "Okay, cool. We've got this sorted." So the second year, I think the key song from that was Sweet Child of Mine. Lee and I rock up next year. Doesn't matter. Don't need you. Don't need new controllers. Don't need new consoles. This is fine. By that time, we sort of got to know all the guys um that were on the circuit because a lot of these festivals with the same stage hands and stage managers working. Rock up. This is going to be fun. We start off. Leo was always better at it than I was. He was playing on expert and he'd start off with a I'd come here on bass. Boom boom

and then somebody threw something and I went, "Okay, did you see that, Leo?" He went, "Yep." And once somebody throws something at Donington, that's like an invitation's red rag. Yeah. That evening, because we we were we were getting journalists on stage as well. And if you search for Dying by the Sword at Donington, there's a fantastic YouTube video. I think 1 minute 13 into it, you see the first one get get thrown and then like everybody gets pelted. But by the end of it, by the end of that night, like so it started off as empty paper cups and then you know full paper cups and uh we had hub caps thrown at us. I had a golf ball cobbed at me. By the end of it we like the end of those couple of hours. I said to Leah, I don't want to do that again. and we and we left our equipment out hoping it would get nicked so we wouldn't need to do it anymore. [laughter]
But we managed to get through it. We were asked about back the third year and by that time we were working with Activision and we were working with um a friend of mine Ian Mlelen. He was very

very kind. Uh we'd had the meeting with John Goodings at the White Festival and so my first thought is to say I played on the main stage of the White Festival. So yeah, let's get some kids up on the main stage and um by that time uh we had uh wireless controllers. We had kids up really enjoying themselves that that year, I forget his name. There was one young boy who absolutely owned that crowd. It was it was fantastic. But to see it go from having a meeting where you're like, "Shit, hasn't sold anything to, you know, 35 40,000 people like genuinely rocking out somebody playing a video game on stage was was absolutely fantastic."
And falling foul of Jimmy Hendricks's estate. Is that right?
Yes. Well, so by then we were uh working with Activision and we were reporting into the US and you know it was it was an odd time. I had to explain what a podcast was a few times. But in order to announce the partnership because we were a headline sponsor that year and there's a statue of Jimmy on the island of White Festival site. So what we did for a photo wob was we went and we put the Guitar Hero color controllers on that

guitar. completely inappropriate these days because you know as everybody knows he's playing a Fender and we were using Gibson's and so um but we put the controllers on, we took some photos, it looked great. Yeah. But the word had reached you know this is this is sort of pre social media what have you the the whispers when they crossed the Atlantic people people had heard that we desecrated Jimmy Henderson's grave like yeah not not quite. Uh but yes, very very good times and um getting to work with people in the music industry as well who suddenly you know because uh world tour coincided with the ability to download and buy songs as well and when the music industry realized that they could be selling uh songs directly to gamers. I thought that was that was a that was a real shift.
Yeah. You worked with the Metallica Sex Pistols. There's a story there, isn't there?
Yes. So by that time, Zack Fountain was running Red Octane. Somehow either Himori and somebody um encouraged the Sex Pistols to go back into the studio

to re-record some of the songs uh Anakin in the UK, a couple of others um because they had lost the masters. And as part of that, they had to support a food PR. So we did some uh they were doing some comeback gigs at Brixton. So we did a press conference um at the Hawkton Bar and Grill. Of course, me and Leo opened. Um, and um, [snorts] uh, Zach said to me, he said, um, he said, "Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure whether I should sort of say I should introduce. We're working with John Leen." He said, "I'm not sure whether I should introduce him." I said, "Yeah, no, absolutely." Like, this is brilliant. We had we had loads and loads of press there, cameras, radio, etc. I said, "Yeah, yeah, do that. We'll we'll play, you come on, say a few words, and then John Ling can come on." So, so we did that. Le and I opened with Alec in the UK.
Zach comes [clears throat] up and he welcomes everybody there and excited about it. It was a bign name partnership at the time. Welcomes John Liden to the stage. So he walks from the back and the stage at Oxen Bar and Grill is quite

narrow. Um and Zach couldn't get off it. So he he moves over to as you're looking at the stage he moves over to the far right. John Lie starts off okay but it's clear that he's not thought what he's going to say. also a bit grumpy about being there. This was just after the indoor smoking ban had had come in as well. So he sparks up uh the venue come and find me. This is Simon. He can't do that. We're going to get fined. He said, "You've got to go and stop him." I was already stood at the back sort of biting into my controller because some of the stuff that he was saying. [laughter] I'm like, "Okay, cool." So I walk up, he's got his bouncer protecting the stage, guy called Rambo, obviously. Um, and I'm like, "Look, you've got to stop him smoking." He's like, "Best of luck with that, mate." Uh, wouldn't let me do it. Anyway, he ends up um smoking on stage. He starts flagging off the country. Um, he starts, you know, showing some of his political leanings. Uh, he throws a

microphone at a journalist and then ends it, you know, by talking about this country, etc. And then talks about and get get your bleep ready. then gestures to Zach on his left and goes, you know, and we end up working for people like this American and Zach just put his put his hands up or waves and I'm like by uh I mean it made the newspapers the following day and they say they say all publicity so don't know but yeah I had an absolute blast and I'm I'm pleased to hear it's back because I felt like it was sort of unfinished business really because Guitario Live um the most recent one you know that that idea Kieran Gillan once wrote wrote a piece which said that more than a feeling was one of the greatest ever levels in a video game because these stages were so well choreographed to make you feel like you know that idea again of people putting their legs slightly further apart leaning back whenever they had

this controller over their shoulders you know it was visible and and it like even if you you know it was only when we started with world tour which introduced the drums you know cuz it was quite hostile you early on from the music press go that's not really playing the guitar is it like no obviously but you know it's about rhythm it's about timing it's about the feeling right all right but but when the drums came in you know that is actually playing the drums you you have a high hat you've got a snare you've got a bass drum couple of toms uh you know we actually worked drumming project at the time and that was you know it's fantastic but um that piece talking about more than a feeling was like you know again great so you're not you know it's not correct you know what you're doing with your left hand and what you're doing with the whammy bar and that you know but it but it felt like it and you know that was why it was such incredible design whether you can play the instrument or not people generally understand left hand further away low notes high notes you know left hand coming in with guitar live where they move to um three and two so you

know like more accurate certainly didn't make you feel like you were playing it like it felt like a chore and somebody from me loved the series I picked it up I'm like what is this sort of lost essence, you know, since then you start to reminisce and of course if only I knew then I've I've had loads of controllers pass through my house and got rid of them and I've come to the you know several times I've thought about buying picking them up from charity shops and and getting involved in that in that open source version where you can mod your join science. Really really pleased to hear it's coming back and and and can't wait and yeah wish them the best of luck.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's not guitar era they're doing, but it is clearly the um um and obviously there still there still exists. There's still Fortnite festival harmonics are still there. Epic. Yeah. Doing its thing and there is a community for this stuff and that controller. So that's CRKD cracked. They call them cracked. It's not how you spell cracked. The they um they have made a Gibson controller. They made it ages ago. It plays on Fortnite Festival. You use it on other you know Y and other

games like it. And um and that's where it sort of started for them. So, I'm I'm also quite pleased they're not banking on this. I think Guitar Hero Live, Activision, they don't make anything with the idea of it being a small niche thing. Maybe they do now, but you know, they still did a Tony Hawks game just a month ago, but there was a time when they were, you know, these things needed to do billions of dollars or hundreds of millions.
Yeah.
And um I think the fact they're starting with are we're going to make a game for the community and if it goes broader, happy, great, awesome. But if it doesn't, we're fine. I think that's the right approach. Um, you know, and you know what? There's they're still, you know, Kelly Sum is still working in music.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So, they're still around doing their thing.
Let's get the band back together.
Literally getting the band back together.
You're going to have to step away from publishing and move back into PR, Simon.
Yeah. I will say thank you.
But, but, you know, I I would be very happy to reminisce.
We could talk about that forever, I think, but I do have another story to get to. There's also another little game business exclusive. Greenman Gaming, the digital games reader, has launched its

own charity bundle initiative. It's effectively a rival to Humble Bundle. Um, and they've hired industry veteran Paul Herren to run it. Paul spent 11 years at Humble Bundle in various leadership roles. He's also overseeing uh Greenman Gaming's expansion to the AP pack region because he's based in Australia. Um, the Charity Bundle project is partnering with Special Effect. It's doing lots of things with local charities. That's a big focus for them. And there's a whole load of details here about how they're going to do things differently and stock trackers, getting codes out for people instantly, that kind of thing. But I actually caught up with Paul Herren earlier today alongside Greenman Gaming CEO Paul Suok to talk about this a little bit. And here's what they told me. Welcome to the show. Hello.
Uh hello, I'm Paul Shuok. I'm the founder and CEO of Greenman Gaming.
Hello. I'm Paul Herren. I'm the general manager of Apac for Greenman Gaming.
So you're launching these new the Greenman Gaming charity bundles. Let's start with the obvious question. Why? Yeah, holography bundles have been around for a while. A lot of people do bundles, but the charity element of what we're doing is more money going into charities and good causes around the

world is obviously a positive thing. With how the world is today, it's always good that we can do a little bit more. And obviously competition is good for everybody. The the addressable market for games is is is huge. And that's having our own green gaming slot and that doing something that's a little bit more customer focused. And you know there's pain points with any retail operation. So we're trying to smooth those out and make it better for the day customer. But ultimately at the end of the day it's for publishers is a way to you know there's a there's a life cycle of a product as we all know and we want to add another area that Green Mountain can deal with or monetize that that life cycle. Well, for consumers, it's just another place they can go, another destination that they can find a bunch of great games, discover stuff that they probably wouldn't have seen because there's was it 18 19,000 games released last year on Steam.
You know, it was really difficult for people to see those. So, the goal is to create those really well, work with great charity partners globally, and try to give the customer something they

really want. But obviously for the publishers, it's driving that incremental revenue. It's driving that exposure. It's driving players into your game. Um, and and all of the above. What Greenman Gaming does very well right now is we're we're very very strong on uh pre-orders of a new game coming out. We're very strong on the launch of a game.
We're probably number two to Steam. And we're very strong at first a discount. What bundles does is is allows us to be able to support and the life cycle of that game. Allows us to be able to support the publisher when the game is not new, when it's not first to discount, when it's out of promotion. It gives us another string to the commercial bow of a publisher or of a of a studio in order to be able to monetize a product that they put so much time, effort, and love into producing. Great games don't always sell. And part of what we will do is try to obviously create the best games that we can find, but give them that opportunity to to find an audience to to drive as Paul said to make sure that they spend a lot

of time making these games that they they find a home that they find an audience that we can obviously drive some sales for them that they you know keeps them going to the next um project whatever that may be. How are you going to be different? That's the that's the question is what in there are the bandals out there including um um your former employer Paul H. How are you going to be different?
For me, it's looking at what, you know, years of of doing this, looking at what some of the pain points are for the customers, looking at some of the things that I've always wanted to do. We sell globally, but obviously if you look at the charity side of things, you want to deliver locally. Um, and cliche as it is, but if I'm purchasing here, I'm I'm based in Australia. I want to see something that I recognize if I'm if I'm giving money to Gangamia is going to help a cause that's close to me that's dear to my heart the same if you're in in in North America Western Europe or in Asia you want to do something that so our goal is to do that deliver locally and do something different there those pain points for customers you know it's

ensuring that you get your game get your key straight away that you can activate in that you can do all these things that that that can sometimes you know not always go smoothly it's also about the curation is about making sure that the the content is really what what is going to drive the success of these bundles and what the customers want to see. So, it's an evolution of what's out there. This is really exciting for Greenman Gaming
and I've got to say, you know, the whole team is behind Paul in what he's trying to achieve. Uh, every time Paul comes together in a meeting um with be it our engineers or be it the operations team or the trading team, there's a general excitement around this. We as a team genuinely feel this can make a difference. We're genuinely looking forward to uh being able to support charities that we would like to work with and actually also be able to uh support our customers and our studio and publishing partners as well. So we think it's it's a good proposition. The time

is right um for us. The time is right for the market we feel uh and it should be a very interesting couple of years. That was the two pools there talking about their new um bundle initiative. Um look, it's it's a tough market. Humble Bundle has gone through a number of changes um in in the last 12 months or so. There's been a bunch of restructuring over there under Ze Davis who own Humble Bundle. Um so it's it's nice to see other places getting involved. Simon, do you do a lot with bundles as Yolks?
We do. I'm a big fan of them. Always have been uh both as a consumer and also on the publishing side as well. I think um you know they can do really well for good causes. Um but equally you know from a from a company point of view they can they can get you into a broad audience. Um with games like Plate Up which is which is our biggest game we've given away so given away we've bundled probably 100,000 keys. Oh wow. Here and there. Um through various initiatives and that's a game that lived through its

community. It lives through word of mouth. lifts through people playing it and and so that can be a really good way of getting games into the hands of lots of people while supporting good causes and potentially you know bringing in some money as well. I think that the challenge these days is that keys are becoming quite difficult to get hold of. The economy of them has changed over the years and as a publisher you're not always able to participate in as many bundles as you would like. So yeah, I mean obviously I'm a big fan of both the pools. um and uh would love to have a conversation with them about how we how we how how we can help. So yeah, very very excited to hear more.
Yeah. Well, I mean I didn't realize they play such a useful role in the life cycle of a game, you know, in terms of like cuz this is I I'm cuz I'm you know me, Simon, like MCV days. I've still got this hat on that, you know, you release a game in a box, it ends there pre-owned underneath all of this causing all sorts of havoc. You release a game in a box, um eventually it goes into some sales and then you create a budget version maybe down the line. But obviously

digital has its own version of this in terms of that's what bundles are because that's what subscriptions and services are as well. They all sort of play into that different avenues and different ways of getting your games in front of people. To me this is obvious I suspect to half my listeners. So to me this is like oh this is interesting. Yeah. You know I think that so when you're launching a game you know it's all about your you know how you're supporting it through marketing. And so that can be through content creators, that can be through press, that can be through community and that can be on platform activity. And these are all things where you you at that moment there is there is a there is a lot of interest right you know where you learn launch on storefront you get various placements etc. You are newsworthy and you're also sort of now and and you know that idea you back in the old days press used to be uh used to be the gatekeeper. Now you know games spread through many ways. content creators certainly one of the most important equally word of mouth

right so what are you playing now you create that demand at the start through you know hopefully hype right it's it's uh and and and through quality right so I am playing this I'm really enjoying this you tell your friends you could tell them you know literally through word of mouth you could tell that on forums on discords on Reddit um or or or you can you know it could appear as your friends list Chris is now playing this um etc. And that's you know that's how you create that demand right at the start. Now what do you do um after that launch momentum has uh died down slightly? Well, you can update your game. That's something that has worked you know particularly well things like play up human for etc. providing free updates ideally I think um you know sometimes paid you sort of risk splitting your audience then but actually what you want are people playing your games that's the strongest endorsement that you can have and so you you know planning that in through you know so you have price promotions you can have content updates and then

figuring out where bundles play now they are a different audience like in in all bundles you will have headliners where people have been waiting for those games to reach a certain price and that they'll buy it and the rest will come as part of that collection. But the hope will be that by suddenly getting your game into, you know, tens or in in in some cases hundreds of thousands of players hands, you know, they're going to start playing it. If you're also then price promoting elsewhere, they're going to tell their mates who may have missed that bundle to to uh pick it up. And hopefully you can you can continue that um you can continue that awareness then. Um so yeah it's um they are part of the publishing ecosystem. It it is tricky right because the whole market I believe is um is incredibly priced driven out of a launch phase. Look at uh some of the data from like think like last week there were over 400

games that were launched on Steam. Now, even if everybody never bought a game again, we'd still not have time to play everything we've already bought. I think that's a that's a common uh theory. Um so, you know, how do you how do you then bring people on once once our game is launched? And it's through content and it's through price and that price can be as an individual um uh sale or or as part of the bundle, but it's keeping people playing is is is the way to maintain those sales.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've talked about that quite a bit um on the on on the show. Um and I guess that's one of the advantages of subscription as well. But anyway, those are two main stories of the day. Um Red Octane and and Green Man Gaming Bundles, but there have been a few other stories that have happened in the last week. In fact, because we didn't have a new show last week, I took a holiday, Simon, which is obviously outrageous. Um but quite a lot has happened. And so, we've got a couple of smaller stories to talk about. Not smaller stories, but non-exclusive stories. Uh stories that happened last

week. But what would have dominated the show last week uh was the situation with Itch and and Valve uh which we saw around adult content or not safe for work content. Um uh though their stuff was de-indexed from the itch it io store. Steam has also changed its rules on what can be published on the store. It's all linked to pressures from payment processors, namely Mastercard, who are in the headlines at the moment, uh, which forbid merchants to sell illegal goods, which is fair enough, or goods that may damage the brand, which is where things are getting a bit tricky. Mastercard denied it was putting restrictions on the sale of content. But Val said that's not true, and and that Mastercard had communicated to payment processes and acquiring banks to put pressure on Steam. Valve said, "We replied by outlining Steam's policy since 2018 of attempting to distribute games are legal for distribution. The payment process has rejected this and specifically cited Mastercard's rule 5127 and risk to the Mastercard brand. All of this comes following a campaign by a group called Collective Shout, which has been campaigning to get what it calls rape and incest games removed

from digital platforms. Pretty much every trade body has issued a statement of some sort condemning the intervention from payment processes. The German trade body said that any restrictions imposed by payment service providers or gaming platforms must not exceed the legal limits. and they alongside the UK have been pointing people towards the the age rating system. Um, now clearly regulation and protections against online harms are essential in the modern digital world, but I'm not entirely sure that payment processes should be the ones making those decisions. Um, Simon, this is is this I guess this doesn't really affect your games, but this must be a
No, but anything that affects the wider industry and certainly that gives power to people that shouldn't have it, I think is terrifying, you know. Um, yeah. awful situation that unraveled in a way where there was no clarity really like people didn't know what was going on or or sort of why why it was happening is had to be unpicked subsequently.
Yeah, I it's it's it's it's terrifying to think that um these sort of things can be can happen through pressure groups elsewhere. Um yeah, I I I I hope

things settle down um and that uh you content that is legal um continues to flourish.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's been a bit of a gamers are gamers are are out there in force. So hopefully that'll there's certainly been a bit of brick with it. But you know there are this is another story that's happened last week. There are some government le protections. The online safety act has been introduced in the UK which requires users to verify their aid online for accessing certain online and digital services in pornography uh websites are the main ones there. But games are included in this. Xbox has now made it mandatory that all users who list themselves as 18 or over on Xbox need to verify their age if they want to access Xbox uh social sort of the the sort of social services that they offer. Um I mean the law is quite sensible. Where things get a bit I guess uncertain is for smaller studios. If you've got things like open chat lobbies and stuff in games um this law then might impact them and there are some hefty fines to pay for non-compliance. Um, like anything with

this, anything big like this, there's a lot of stuff that will inevitably need working through and uh it's a good time for lawyers to uh to try and uh sort of thread a path for a lot of these um things. Is it is it anything that any of your titles uh need um people to scan their face to prove they are over the age of 18?
No, not currently. I mean uh um you know our our titles are um all uh published um on other platforms. Um yeah, it's been um it's been interesting seeing the consequences of of this work themselves through. Um I think the you know nobody disputes the fact that you need to protect kids from harmful content online. Um but again going back to that idea about you know what should be outlawed or restricted
through moral reasons is clearly wrong. The real worry though is you know isn't necessarily through the platforms about how they're going to do it but it's the

trust in the data that you're handing over.
Yeah.
You know it's like um some stores and platforms are choosing to do it in different ways. You know some are taking common sense approaches. I've, you know, I've read some places have gone, well, if you if if you've had an account for 13 years, then then you're fine. Um, you know, you uh you are probably over 18. Others though are saying, look, you know, send us your your data and and you know, it's not not a week goes by without hearing about hackswhere and your your data can potentially fall into the wrong hands. So, it's, you know, I think it's it's it's people need trust needs to work both ways. Yeah.
Um and uh yeah, you know, I hope I hope these these consequences get ironed out.
And although I think things such as, you know, porn websites and stuff are completely right. There is an element of this there's there's potential where do you draw the line between protecting children and sort of you know there's this idea that a playground like you know playgrounds kids are supposed

to fall over and get hurt but you know they they they'll get hurt. they won't get hurt that badly because the way they're, you know, set up. They're not just, you know, um, and that's sort of you kids should be testing boundaries and making mistakes, but where do you draw the line there? I think I mean, I say some of it's quite tensible, but it's just, uh, yeah, it's making sure it's it's there there's, as we've said, there's just stuff that's going to have to be worked through um, as as we go. There's a lot of GDPR and all the other [snorts] things that came through,
but these protections should not replace parenting, right? you know, like, you know, as as as as a as a father of two, uh, you know, very different ages. I've got one who's about to hit 17 and one who's seven. Um, I've been going through with my seven-year-old, you know, putting things in place as she begins to enjoy video games and different platforms here and there and and and and actually being aware as a parent rather than offloading that to the law.
Yeah.
I I think I I think is absolutely key. And probably the kids of um you know people in the video games industry get

treated a little bit uh more harshly.
Yes. Well, and it's big. We are quite savvy. Like I'm already like my 5-year-old has got into video games quite a bit now. It's just literally just started with sort of Astrobot and Donkey Kong
and I'm sort of and I've got my you know my wife sort of going I'm not sure they're playing a lot of games. It's fine. It's Astrobot and Donkey, right? you know, it's when he starts going, "Oh, I want to play mobile games um with loads of advertising and you know, microtransactions or when they want to play when he wants to watch a lot of YouTube." There's nothing wrong with these things, but there's an element of education that needs to go on there cuz it's it's it's it's a little bit different. But anyway, we could talk about that because different subject for a different day, I think. Um well, let's let's wrap up with some solid financial reports that have actually gone out. Um Nintendo uh numbers came out. They reported big results for Switch 2 selling through 5.8 8 million consoles since it launched on June 5th. It's the fastest selling console ever. We've talked about this before in the show, as we discussed two weeks ago with Matt Piscetella. Uh the rest the real test for Switch 2 is um is when it's trying

to speak to the broader audience. Is the price okay? Is the lineup compelling enough? There's only so much you can tell from the launch window really other than that they made a lot of units. Um but you know, good start. You can't you know, it's it's Do you do a lot indie indie publishers seem to do all right on Switch too? It's the bigger ones that tend to struggle a little bit or Switch generally Nintendo. Simon, you play up do well for you and
yes. Yeah, very very happy. I think um you know the early days of Switch were um were fantastic. I think the first game I published on Switch was the Flame of the Flood
and um you know we're in there early and it did very well. You know it's good to see the improvements that Nintendo's made um with the ecosystem. The store is much more uh much more accessible. It loads quicker. They've got personalized recommendations which they didn't have before. Um, you know, previously your your store placement outside of the key featured areas were just chronological. Um, and now there are more more areas that you can appear in. And yeah, um, everybody gets a personalized wish list updated every week. Um, it's it's nice

to have a snappy store. Thank you, Nintend. [laughter]
Well, there's still still work to do. I understand. But yeah, it's a good start there. Um the another platform but a different one entirely. Roblox I mean sensational results. I mean terrifying results. Revenue up 21%. Bookings up 51%. I mean it's still losing money but growing exponentially. It stock is proving hugely popular particularly with hedge funds. The firm says it wants to capture 10% of the glo global gaming content market flowing through its platform. I mean it's growth just extraordinary. Um uh yeah. Um you don't have any Roblox games. Do you coming Simon? Are you uh you telling?
No, but we have a Roblox player in the family. Um yeah, I mean I have to say it was it it was a world which I um knew nothing about and the more I've been exposed to it. Yeah. I you know I think um it's it's all that it's all that the

kids are talking about um and you know there are games that are popular variations on sort of other parlor games, party games or what have you. But um you know I I watch my daughter play it. She has a great time and um I have to you know she's locked down on it. She can't spend any money. No one can speak to her that's not within her friends thing. I I can see everything that she does and you know actually she's really enjoying herself. So
yeah sure I I did a BBC I was on the BBC a couple of weeks ago talking about Grow a Garden and they said have you played it? And I went of course I haven't. I'm 40 years old but um they said could you? So I that was my introduction to Roblox was grow a garden and of course naturally well I thought it was awful. Um the but I mean I didn't I could understand that game loop's compelling enough. I've seen it enough times but there was a part of me you know where as an old man I'm like I don't get this at all. Um, and I know they're talking about they often used the statistic that, you know, more increasingly people over the age of 13 are playing and and all that sort of

thing, but I mean I I people that were coming up and talking to me and the experience I was having, this isn't meant for this isn't an adult experience. It's not it wasn't what, you know, I don't want 8-year-olds telling me about their turnips. Um, but the um the uh but um but anyway, that's me being an old man. Uh it is obviously absolute phenomenal results and and and big growth there. Um uh sticking with platforms a little bit and get through the last two of these. U Microsoft gaming revenue is up 10% yearon year. This is a little while ago now. Hardware sales continue to fall. Game Pass annual revenue has surpassed $5 billion. The Game Pass has received a decent boost from price increases plus the introduction of the Call of Duty into the service. Um obviously the big conversation everyone loved making a big deal out of this. Six of the 10 bestselling PlayStation games during the last quarter were Microsoft titles including Forsa Horizon, Elder Scrolls 5, Oblivion, Equal of Duty, Black Ops 6, Minecraft, Doom: The Dark Dark Ages, Indiana Jones, and The Great Circle. Um, uh, everyone loves pointing that out. I mean, only one only two all of those are acquired franchises that launched on the

PlayStation before um, apart from Fors of Horizon 5. Actually, Forsa Horizon 5 has been the biggest hit. It really has done very well, which is great news for um, for that game. I, you know, it's it's nice that that's um, still going. It can feel a little bit like whiplash covering Microsoft. One minute you're reporting mass redundancies, game cancellations, and studio closures, the next the company's delivering double digit growth. So um obviously these things aren't related. Um but um um not completely, but it's um uh yeah, there some some decent numbers there for Microsoft as they as they become this publishing mega corp. Um
yeah, and you know that idea about um everything being an Xbox, I've got to say when I've been playing stuff recently, the ability to hop between, you know, cloud TV um you know, I've been playing Xbox on my TV, Luna on TV is fantastic. I finished Star Wars Outlaws on Luna. Um and it was incredible to think about that I was just running it on my TV without a console. It was brilliant. Um uh yeah, you know, like the I think the more

people playing more and more um more pieces of hardware can only be a good thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Their multiplatform strategy so far seems to be working and that's good news for them. But finally, I'll end on Capcom. You see, Capcom's financial results that they were good. They had strong back catalog results. But the interesting story is this is what's happened with Monster Hunter Wilds. Um the game was Capcom's fastest selling game when it released back in February. Like eight, it's like 8 million copies in record time. Um, but it's taken a big drop since then, uh, with a bit of fan dissatisfaction around the difficulty and just some of the stuff that's in the game. As a result, for the last financial quarter, which was its second quarter on the market, it delivered soft results. It only sold slightly better than the previous Monster Hunter game, Monster Hunter Rise, which released in 2021 on Switch, 2022 on PC, and 2023 on PlayStation and Xbox. It's a bit of a rare misstep for Capcom, who have been often used as a bit of a poster child for AAA game development at the moment. um uh they tend to be normally in tune with what their fans want and what they're after and they make sure they sort of deliver on that. Um now obviously these games

live for a long time. Um there's plenty of time to update this and turn this around. Capcom has a history of doing that too. Um but there's clearly work to Monster Hunter Worlds that so um um uh and and ultimately for them it will also be about protecting the brand a little bit. Not that Monster is a bad game in any way. It's just that it's clearly upset. It's a negative reaction at the moment from fans and you know the fact that the people are still buying the old Monster Hunter games suggests that they they want to make sure they do right by them. Yeah, it got a very strong critical reception was initially very good. So um there's clearly something there. I think something to be worked on. If you played Monster Hunter, Simon, are you a Monster Hunter player?
I' I've tried many many many times and with Wilds they almost got me again. It's like Dark Souls. I'm like, "Oh, this sounds good."
And then I tried not for me. I'm sorry. Uh, but Monster Hunter Wilds is not either.
No.
Um, but I did buy Street Fighter on Switch, so you know.
Yeah. Well, so you are contributing. Yeah. I'm I'm a Resident Evil player, so I I'm the same. I had reviewed Monster Hunter 3 on the 3DS, and I didn't get it

at all. I don't get this. I don't get this. And whenever I say it to certain Monster Hunter people, they look at me like I'm Devil Incarnate. Like, it's whatever. I I I'll Yeah. Um, well, that's Look, we've we've gone so much so much uh uh long episode this one. That's it for today's episode of the game business show. Thank you, Simon, for joining us. Um, I loved your stories.
We should do a We should just do one every week of the Guitar Hero anecdote. We'll be back next week with more interviews, news, analysis, and data ahead of a bumper week of Gamescom coverage. To make sure you don't miss anything we do, head to the game.com, stick in your email, and you'll receive our handy newsletter. Until next time, thank you for tuning in.