TWIG #379: Roblox's Age Problem, Xbox Game Pass & Pokemon's 30th Takeover

There's also Pokémon collaborations with Tiffany and Co.
Love it.
[laughter]
POKéMON MARKETING. YAY! YAY! ALL RIGHT, CHRIS. GO AHEAD, throw up on it. Go ahead. Let's hear it. Hello everyone and welcome to Deconstructor Fun this week in Games 379. I'm Jen Danaher. I play the marketing and publishing role on the podcast. Today we have in for share Eric Kress back. Strange casting. And Laura Tarranto, puzzle product queen, still still reigning. Welcome back. It's been a It's been a month or so. Oh, GDC was the last time I think we had you on. This is great. It's good to have you here. All the The other guys are off. Yeah, thanks. So, I'm still recording, so we'll talk get to you at later, but I'm just focusing on my my favorite part of gaming, which is usually puzzle.
[laughter]
Oh, that's right. You're doing a specific puzzle monthly episode, right?

Yeah, so if you listen to the first one, anyone who who heard it, I wasn't on the first one due scheduling, but the second one I am on, so get get excited. We're talking about We're going deep on puzzle, which is great.
Oh, awesome. Sure, Chris can't wait to listen to that.
[laughter] [gasps]
All right. Well, here's what we have on today's episode. We are going to get Chris's feedback on last week's episode that he missed and talk about is AAA dominance eroding. I think many of you know his answer to that. Roblox is splitting its 144 million DAU into three age tiers starting in June and its stock is down 57% in the last 6 months. So, we'll talk about the new Roblox age gating sections of the game. New Xbox CEO called Game Pass too expensive in a leaked memo hinting at ad-supported tiers. Zynga stealth launched Borderlands mobile in in the US App Store with no announcement. Pokémon Champions launched on Switch, the fifth Pokémon product in

9 months amid a massive 30th anniversary marketing push. Guess what I'm going to talk about? NetEase
[laughter]
NetEase got a Destiny Risings monetization removing energy gates and gotcha locks after revenue dropped 80% from launch. So, we'll check in with how Chris is feeling about Destiny mobile. But first, Laura, did did you have something to start with? I do and it's super exciting news. So, Jen has been nominated for a Boss Mode Award which focuses on calling out and highlighting women who are pushing the games industry forward that are driving the future. It's an inaugural award series by GamesBeat to celebrate and elevate women leaders across gaming, media, and the technology industries. And just two little little note while I we go through this is I can't think of anyone better that I'd rather see nominated than you. I feel like you push things forward absolutely through the podcast, through the interviews, through the work you've been doing that you can't always share

on on the air, but I think this is a wonderful award. Aw, thank thank you.
Yeah. I'll go through a little bit more just so that listeners can hear. So, the nominees were announced in April 26th, so this month, and the winners will be revealed at the GamesBeat Summit in LA May 18th and 19th. So, we should all be cheering Jen on and I'll be waiting. I don't know if I can make it to LA, but if I can, I'll be there and then otherwise I'll be cheering for you from Seattle. Oh, that's that's so awesome. I cannot fathom that I'm in the same category, Chris, as Laura Miele, president of EA, my former boss actually, and she was only part of the largest take private ever in history. So, I'm I'm sure I have you know, I can go up against her, but it's such an honor. Thanks to GamesBeat for first of all just doing what they do to always support women. I've been going to their They do a women's breakfast every single year in LA for many many many years. And they're always such good supporters of women and underrepresented folks in the

industry and it's it's just it's like super honor. Well, congrats, Jen. Well deserved.
Yay! Congratulations. But of course I have to throw some shade. I read through the nominees for lifetime achievement and once I saw like Jade Raymond nominated, I kind of lost it. I was like, how can you give a lifetime achievement award to someone who hasn't released a game in a lifetime? You know, so it's like, how is that even possible, right? So, you know, anyway, but congrats, Jen. Well, thank you. Thank you. And I loved on my on my LinkedIn post you were like, sometimes on the podcast you call me boss, which is funny, or your work wife.
my boss, yes, on this podcast. [laughter] They're the same thing. Boss, work wife, I feel like interchangeable. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you guys. Let's go to shilling and so this is not out yet. It'll be out soon, but I just had to talk about it cuz it really feeds into some of our topics. So, I did a full Twig Junior podcast. Many of you

may have heard Rocky and Mickey. These are the Lowenfels, Henry Lowenfels' kids. They are 12 and 10. This is
[gasps]
This is the title of the podcast unless Mishka change it. Roblox has gone to was a literal quote.
[laughter]
That was Rocky's literal quote. So, I'm like, I think I'm going to make that the title of the episode. It's Gen Alpha's unfiltered take on gaming and we definitely get their unfiltered take. They were allowed to curse by the way. Henry was there and it was approved in case you're wondering why a kid said No F bombs were dropped in the making of that podcast. So, Chris, you missed it.
Absolutely.
[laughter]
So, the the best part is at the end is Chris, you were missed because I was only tied for their favorite host and I think they added that to be nice. Chris is slightly more interesting sometimes. No offense, Jen.
[laughter]
That was too funny. I'm sorry I missed it. So, I told them we would do another one in a few months and check in. I gave them some homework and it's they really

delivered. It's going to be like They must be They must be just aging out of Roblox, right? I mean, they're This is when kids go move on, right? Because this this platform is made for children. This is our third time to talk to them. Rocky, who is 12, he's almost 13, has aged out of Roblox. He started playing Roblox, playing Fortnite, and now he's a friend slot PC gamer. He has a bunch of other games that he's playing, too.
it's the evolution. I mean, I don't Why doesn't someone do some research on this and like show this really clearly that that's this is what happens.
funny you mentioned that. I'm working with Stan at BetaHat on We're doing a little deep dive into Gen Alpha. So, maybe at some point I can have Stan back and we can talk about what we're going to find. This was like the first of that journey for me. I mean, it was as a game industry, we have to be looking at the change in play patterns and needs and wants of the younger generation and how they are viewing games differently than what we grew up doing. It is different. Totally agree with you and I'm super

interested to see that research for purely selfish reasons. [laughter] As someone who works on a platform that might also be talking to Gen Alpha.
[laughter]
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So, Chris, I I wanted to get your feedback on last week's podcast. It was just, you know, Twig for two. It was just Mishka and I. Did you hear when I tried to channel you like a seance and say, "I think what Chris would say is that $40 games are not the be-all end-all of HD marketing, PC marketing, that AAA is still where it's at." So, Chris, feedback? Well, first of all, I apologize profusely for sticking you with Mishka alone.
[laughter]
Ever. Ever. Like, no one wants that. No one wants that. No one needs that, right? It was It was lovely. I actually had a lovely time. We talked about consulting. It was It was lovely. I'm going out to Turkey with him for in May for this Laton Ventures Summit. Yes, I will be stuck with him for a while. Anyway, yeah, I thought I actually I didn't have any issues with the report. Guess it fine. Did great.

However, I will say that Mishka is getting completely subverted by Newzoo these days and I'm just getting a really annoyed at this false narrative that Newzoo has created and put it out in the world, right? I read this headline the other day, AAA dominance is eroding. 56% of PC gaming now comes to games outside of the top 20. And this is some research that Newzoo put out recently. And it was from WCCFTech, who I've never heard of. I think I Newzoo is doing a a real disservice or they're just trying to be more like the voice of positivity and I and I hate to be obtuse on these type of issues, but this is just flat wrong, right? Just generally speaking. So, anyway, their notion is that AAA dominance is is eroding and I think and the title is is absolutely ridiculous, right? Because that's just not happening, right? And I think Newzoo just needs to be more careful about how they present their data, right? So, here's the other

conclusions. In the western markets, this is from the report. In western markets, titles ranked 21st and below accounted for 56% of total PC gaming revenues in 2025, up from 48% 2022. This means that the majority of money spent on PC games now goes to titles outside the top tier. Console platforms are moving the same directions. Titles outside the top 10 20 represent 38% of PlayStation revenues and 35% of Xbox revenues in 2025, right? So, this is Okay, this is this conclusion makes no sense. The fact that games outside the top 20 are driving a bigger proportion of the revenue has nothing to do whether or not they're AAA or an established IP or anything. It's completely misleading and Newzoo is kind of driving these people to this these type of conclusions, right? What Newzoo needs to do and I talked to Ben about this months but right after GDC is they need to create a slide which shows revenue from

new IP as a percentage of revenue in the west, right? Every year, right? And or AAA games as a percent of total revenue in the west, right? That would show what is the most important thing to talk about is what the TAM is for the west for indie, double A and even AAA games, right? That's what's most important and they're not doing that. Instead, they're throwing out this data set like both from usage perspective and from, you know, the top 20 revenue that is misleading and bringing people to draw this conclusion. And the challenge right now in this business is the total addressable market for new games and new IP is very small across console, PC and mobile. That is what they should be showcasing in my opinion. Their response at Newzoo is likely going to say, "We're just putting out the data, man. It's up to them to interpret." [laughter] My response, be better.

There we go. Well, so Chris, to get to that percentage decline, isn't this because Call of Duty last year sucked? Like, isn't that the reason? I forgot to mention that. Yeah, the fact is that the data is very year dependent heavy, right? And they're likely not including any of the subscription revenue associated with Xbox stupid Game Pass, right? Which completely cannibalized the market, right? For Call of Duty in particular. And the fact, you're right, that Call of Duty was down so dramatically that that could have done it as well and pulled people out of the top 20. That's why you need to like cut it in a different way to actually get to the conclusions that people are drawing, right? Or to actually in this sense like contradict the conclusions that people are drawing from their data. They do a valuable service. They give us so much free data, which I love. But I do also think that you bring up some great points that like, okay, I think we need to cut it a different way. I think

in years where we have dramatic changes and swings in AAA when, you know, when Call of Duty doesn't hit, like that is that gap with a typical Call of Duty revenue and see if those numbers actually do change or not. I do think that there's a rise in double A games that are, you know, with Helldivers, with some of these other games that have come up. I do think it's kind of like, "Ooh, sh- this is shiny, look over here." But that's not exactly the case, right, Chris? No. Exactly. And and then then the classifications are questionable, right? Like, you know, like Battlefield as a new game? Like, I mean I I mean
[clears throat]
like, please. Really? Like, how can you even say that with a straight face, right? So, you know, anyway. That's a difficult one, yeah. For a game that it's a franchise, but it hasn't been out in a long time. You know, I I do Yeah, you're right. They might need a different classification for sequels, for brand new IP, new game, like Arc Raiders,

right? And I think Arc Raiders is, you know, it's the shiny new thing that everyone's like, "Ooh, $40 Arc Raiders." You know, like like let's everyone do that. I think is what is happening and I think there's even like a rumor that Disney and Epic are doing an extraction shooter based off of like the success of Arc Raiders, which I don't know. I think Epic has said that's a rumor. I don't I don't know. But I mean, this is what happens is the pendulum swings. Somebody sees something successful and then everyone chases it and tries to fast follow. I've already mentioned Arc Raiders a million times, but like that is not a double A or single A game. That That is AAA through and through, you know, like and so like you can't Yeah. Yeah, AAA development at double A prices, I think is the is the the headline. All right, let's go into Roblox. So, let me just do a little setup of what's going on. So, they're splitting their 144 million DAU into three age tiers and this is all starting in June of 2026. We have a

couple months. We're mid-April right now. So, the CEO called Roblox announced Roblox kids for ages 5 to 8, Roblox select for ages 6 to 15 with standard accounts for users 16 and older. There actually is like a little bit and we can see it on the screen here what it's going to look like. Reading the articles, Roblox kids is has this blue background so a parent when they're looking over can tell that the kids actually in the appropriate, you know, segment. So, kids accounts have disabled chat by default and restrict content to games rated minimal or mild only. Select accounts, so this is the kids 9 to 15, allows games rated to moderate and grant chat access gradually at age milestones with parental controls through 15. Parents gain new tools to block specific games, manage direct chat settings, approve content outside default categories, and view game titles and friends lists.

Over 50% of DAU and 65% of US users have already completed Roblox facial age estimation scan powered by Persona. Oh, I can't wait to talk about that when I talk to Rocky and Mickey and how the kids are getting around it. I'll I'll get to that later. Uh
[laughter]
attorneys general in eight states including Texas, Florida, Louisiana filed lawsuits against Roblox. This is not even to mention other countries that have filed lawsuits. Roblox plans to transition its content rating system to the International Age Rating Coalition. So, this means that ESRB, PEGI, that framework is coming later in 2026, which makes sense, I think. So, that there's standardization in our ratings. And then, Chris, this is the point we'll talk about later for you. Wells Fargo cut its Roblox price target on the stock from 97 to 78. TD Cowen dropped its target from 70 to 54. And some of the articles I read were citing declines partially tied to this ad

verification friction that it's adding. A bunch of others have also reduced their costs, but you know, we'll get to that in a second. So, Chris, I wanted to get your take. I know that we talk about Roblox a lot and we should. This is big news that they are segmenting the app features by age. So, what do you take away from this? This is getting into a broader issue that we're probably going to talk about in a bit. And I think what they're trying to do is get ahead of this issue so they're not like caught up in all this like social media like age restrictions and all this other stuff. You know, kind of taking a target off their back to some degree. So, they're being proactive and doing this, but the key issue remains, honestly, is how these age verification processes are going to be circumvented by these dedicated children [laughter] that want access to content. I mean, they're like the, you know, they're going to do whatever it takes. And now you can just do a quick search to figure out how to circumvent this right? But

there will be restrictions, like pretty significant restrictions on this type of stuff under 16, which I think is almost inevitable. But anyway, they will likely have a structure in place to comply with many of the rules that are associated with these legislations going forward. So, that this kind of helps them prepare for that. So, that's what I would say. The masters were just on. I will give them golf claps for finally doing the right thing here. But honestly, I feel like I feel like I'm channeling my Chris child safety should have been at the forefront from the beginning. If you're going to make a game that is predominant audience is children, then you need to be thinking of safety first. I think these are table stakes that are coming that are long overdue. When you have any type of interactions or available interactions like chat where you have children potentially talking to adults, you need to be thinking at the very beginning when that's when you're proposing that feature, how do we protect our main audience? I think that yes, glad they did it, but I think at any UGC platform at scale, I feel like

trust and safety for Roblox is coming in way too late. I feel like this should have they should have had this a a long time ago and they put together a product design spec, it should be at the forefront. Again, glad they're doing it now and I hope that everything they look at going forward has like this now same lens of general player safety. It should have
been done sooner. However, like let's applaud them for like do This is hard, especially at this scale. Like they are at a scale that is bigger than Fortnite and some of these other games combined, like 144 million DAU is is not an easy amount of people to kind of wrangle. They're doing the most impossible thing, which is to corral kids into age-appropriate lanes. They're facing lawsuits and more importantly, they're currently skating on the edge of this global social media ban that we're talking about. And so if you're not following this, I think there are 10 or more countries that have now banned social media apps for kids under 16. Right now, they are not included in that, which is interesting. I don't know

how long that's going to stay that way until legislators realize that kids actually use Roblox as social media, but that's I mean, you know, we'll we'll see what happens there. You know, I'm sure they're just trying to stay out of this and and they're they're doing the right thing, which is to be getting ahead of it. And then you mentioned, you know, the biggest issue is that kids are being little shits and they're getting around the age verification process. I I told you about my step kids when even I mean, they are 20 and 17 now. So they've been playing Roblox since they were like eight and five. They were doing the skirting around the issues back then. For Zach, that that was 12 years ago. So I'm going to spoil a little bit of the Twig Pod the Twig Junior podcast that I did. So we got a whole section where we talked about Roblox. And you know, first is they get approached all the time by creepy people, not just in chat. Yes, voice chat, but also in like text chat asking for their address, asking for their telephone number and their credit card information. And you know, if

you're not an astute kid, like you're oof, it just it's super creepy. So then the other thing is we talked about how they're getting around age verification. So the kids would take pictures of older people and use two phones. One kid put a mustache on, like a fake mustache and got through it. Like sneaky sneaky sneaky little shits. Like And so this is not Roblox's fault. This is like, you know, welcome to like kids. So but it was just interesting to talk to them and and also see how they progress. Like we mentioned earlier, Rocky is kind of progressed to becoming a PC gamer versus and leaving Roblox behind. Sometimes he'll play some of the games with his brother, Mickey, who's a little bit younger, but mainly he's aged out and he's 12 and he's almost 13. But Chris, the the point I wanted to dig in a little bit more is, you know, your expertise in the stock implications. You know, with their stock down 50 or 7% over the last 6 months and 29% year to date, you know, it's trading around 57 to 60 when when everything dropped.

What's kind of going on as we go into like rest of the year? Roblox is a hedge fund hotel. [laughter] It is not trading on fundamentals. These are not big institutional investors that investing long term in Roblox health and wellness. It's up and down, in and out, right? People are making tons of money and losing tons of money on these big swings. So put your money in the VTI. I think what what what's kind of happening is engagement trends are starting to fall, right? And they are still spending a ton of money to service the 120 million MAU or DAU, whatever the hell it is. And all these lawsuits and child predators on the platform, you know, lawsuits about child So they they're defending themselves, right? Consistently. Again, they have a truly impossible comp with Grow a Garden and Steel a Brain Rot coming in the next two quarters. And the guidance implies much stronger back half performance, right? So people are questioning whether that where that's coming from given the tough comps with Steel a Brain Rot and Grow a

Garden. Second, and this is more nuanced, is that looks like I was almost dead wrong about Manuel Bronstein liv- leaving. So my assumption that he was leaving to pursue a CEO in another role in another company because he knew Baszucki was never going to leave, right? And my assumption was that he would Baszucki would continue Manuel's monetization strategies and try to grow revenue per user. It's starting to be clear to me, anyway, that there is a shift in strategy more towards the high fidelity type of experiences.
Yeah. Which sounds good on paper,
[laughter]
but will be absolutely almost impossible to execute or at least very challenging to execute in my view. I think Manuel had a much more pragmatic approach to chasing advertising and other ways of monetizing the existing audience as opposed to trying to build the dream and ambition of Baszucki cuz as I've said many times, it was not Baszucki's ambition or dream to create a child torture video creator,

right? And then meanwhile, every country in the free world is talking about limiting access to social media platforms, right? For kids under the age of 16, right? Which ultimately will include Roblox cuz by definition, Roblox is a social platform, right? For children, right? But of course, they're only going after social media right now, but this is Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and then in Europe, we see France, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Germany, Poland. UK is still kind of on the fence. They have their online safety act, but no no no active ban. And US is always, you know, leagues behind, but 41 state attorneys have sued Meta alleging harm to children, right? So it's only a matter of time, I think, before Roblox and the rest will get pulled in. Oh, and for Roblox specifically, the Netherlands launched an investigation in January 26th whether the platform was safe under EU standards. France's High Commissioner raised concerns about pedophilia and

sexual harassment on the platform. Australia is scrutinizing Roblox activity. They did not include it in the online social media ban for under 16, but the commissioner reserving the right to reclassify it. The Texas AG sued Roblox accusing of a breeding ground for predators. Other lawsuits in Kentucky, Louisiana, Florida
[laughter]
are filed. You know, the the wagons are circling, baby. They're coming after them, right? After all this time. But could you imagine? Sorry, this is the this is the last part. Could you imagine what would happen to Roblox numbers if they restricted access for under 16? Dude, it would be apocalyptic. It would absolute carnage, right? I mean, how are the 40-year-old Brain Rot players going to torture children without the 16-year-olds on the platform, right? Allegedly or uh figuratively tortured, not actually tortured. It's not figurative. They're torturing them. They're like emotionally torturing these poor children on these games, you know?
So what I will say and interject from

talking to Rocky and Mickey, again, the kids was that they literally said to me, it is these Brain Rot games are addictive and they are just money grabs. And there's still some social pressure to play them, but they talked about starting to move away from the Brain Rot games because they're recognizing a lot of these Roblox games are just out to get their money. So I don't know if there's going to be a cultural shift in addition to what you're saying, which is, you know, more of the like outside the app shift away from these types of thing. Anyway, If they go after this idea of creating more HD versions to age up the audience, like there is a certain sensible strategy to that because that audience spends more money and they can they can make the assumption that they will get more revenue per user, which is really what they're should be focused on in my opinion. I think what they are focused on is revenue per user. The challenge with that is that the I cut foot still fundamentally believe that that audience is not on

Roblox. And so I think that's going to be a big challenge for them. Meanwhile, the cost of building and the cost of delivering HD content is far more than existing [laughter] content on Roblox. So anyway, it is it is a tough position to be in, generally speaking. And if you look at what the way Grow a Garden and Brain Rot monetize, they monetize extremely well on the platform. You could see that in the data that they reported for those quarters. So they're going to be comping not only a tough comp from a bodies perspective, MAU, this metrics that don't mean anything, but they're also going to be comping a really tough revenue number for those quarters, right? And so I think people will wait until there is more clarity there before they buy or they may buy the stock just in anticipation that something will happen. I don't know. You know, like again, don't don't invest in these things. On a side note, I was at an event in San Francisco discussing AI and social media access for kids and it was a very high level one, but it was like, you know, the Open AI, you know,

PR person and then the Stanford professor on AI and then it was like this weirdly weird group of like French like Nothing against the French? No, no, [laughter] this is something against the French. Sorry. I I mean, It was it was like four people for this consulting think tank thing in France. Okay. There's like literally one AI company in France. So I'm not really sure where their expertise is coming to and they were completely outmatched by the people that are actually living it it, you know, at Stanford and Open AI. I don't know what the they were doing up there is what I'm trying to say. And yes, this is another disparaging thing to the French. But anyway, the point is that it is seems to me almost inevitable that the research is very damning on the impact of social media on kids. I mean, I think that's kind of a given right now. There will be a ban probably in the US and UK ultimately. That's that's the way that this is going to end up happening or some restriction that

parents require access, etc. The thing that was really interesting was that it is too early to know, but it almost feels like AI tools will ultimately have the same type of issue, right? The early evidence shows that cognitive development may be reduced by integrating AI technologies too early in child development. Now, I am no expert on this. I'm just saying what they were kind of implying up there. And ultimately, like these tools may be restricted for kids under the age of 16 so that they can fully develop their cognitive abilities by the time they're in that age. So, anyway, that's what they were kind of implying. I just want to throw that out there cuz I was at this thing. It was really interesting. That makes sense. I think there's going to be so much more data on that. It's just like how we didn't know the impact of social media until now. Now there's enough data and it is difficult with correlation and causation. I get it, but I mean, at some point it's kind of obvious, right? Like what's going on here? And what I think will happen is that the regulators will draft on the social

media conclusions and apply those to the
AI. AI. That makes sense. And it'll be much quicker this time around in my opinion. But that's that's years from now. I'm just kind of throwing it out there. No, I I think that makes sense. The thing I'll wrap on on this topic was just going back to Rocky and Mickey when they talked about a couple things on the on the AAA and the high def kind of aspect. This was my hypothesis I've been saying on the podcast for a few weeks now, which is higher fidelity equals I have to try harder. Therefore, I don't necessarily want to engage in that. So, that might be a challenge on the Roblox platform. They did see some performance issues on sometimes when they have games that have way too many people, the games will crash. And so, I think because Roblox runs on lower spec devices, there might be some challenges in getting those AAA experiences in. So, that kind of came up in the conversation. Anyway, when that comes out, it'll be a super interesting if if you want to hear about like how Jen A is viewing it.

All right. So, getting to the next topic, this is I actually hesitated to bring this up cuz we talk about Xbox all the time. We talk about Game Pass a lot, but this was in the news and it was covered pretty broadly. So, this is from The Verge. New Xbox CEO Asha Sharma called Game Pass too expensive for players in a leaked internal memo signaling potential pricing changes ahead. So, Sharma wrote to employees, "Game Pass has become too expensive for players, so we need a better value equation. Game Pass Ultimate currently costs $30 a month." This is up from $20 a month after two price hikes within 15 months. And I think we covered a lot of those saying, "Woof, that feels rough for consumers." Sharma's long-term plan evolved Game Pass into a more flexible system with ad-supported and lower cost tiers under consideration. I think I have been saying this. I've been pointing to Netflix saying, "Look over there." And then, where is Mr. Eric Seufert when you need him? Xbox Game Pass is about to become an ad an ad network. Does any of

you say everything's an ad network? Well, here you go. So, Microsoft may bundle Game Pass with Netflix as one option to boost appeal for casual players and families. Game Pass has 37 million subscribers as of Q1 '25. Updated '26 figures have not been disclosed, shocking. And then, Kress, for you, you get because we're going to time box this, you get one sentence. What is your What is your one sentence response, please? Xbox Game Pass is too expensive, no duh. Let's see where this goes.
[laughter]
Okay. All right. So, I'll give a little bit longer take because there's something about this I wanted to point out. So, whenever I start a new job, hold with me for this non sequitur for a second, I always reference a book called The First 90 Days. And this book is by Michael Watkins. So, basically, it's a guidebook how you should approach a new job. He gives you like, here's what you do in 30 or 60 or 90 days. And the one

thing I always remember from this book is that you aim for a quick win in the first 30 days. It gives you credibility. It helps you build trust. It helps the teams that you're working on know that you're really coming in and making an impact and people aren't like, "Well, why did we bring this person in?" So, this is often what I like to call a no duh. So, taking something that's obvious and turning it into a win so you look really smart. So, this memo feels like that for Asha Sharma. So, what I'm saying is that she took, you know, basically a no duh. So, she took Game Pass prices are too expensive and they turned it into, you know, what's going to be in a sense a quick win for her. What they should already have been doing and probably were already planning is making it an ad network or adding an ad tier. So, Kress, what I think is to quote you from a couple episodes This is um This is um apex predator Jedi mind tricking and I love it. I love it. By the way, also want to say is I talked to folks around the industry that are starting to interact with her at a number of the companies. They have very positive things to say about her. Her

onboarding has been really good. She's very open. She's very receptive to feedback. She's very interested and she's listening. And so, I just love to hear that from someone that we have criticized as not being a gamer, not having game industry background. That at least is the right way to approach it. So, anyway, I'll let you have a response since I limited you to one sentence. Are you Are you trying to incite a riot here?
[laughter]
I've already used my my one sentence. I'm going to leave it at that, but Okay. All right. I thought you would like my apex my my validating your apex predator. I do, but the notion that folks in the industry are receptive to her, you know, embracing her wholeheartedly is Well, I I I don't know if I'd go that far. I I I said she has made positive first impressions, which is all you can ask for at that stage.
If If you're talking about people at Microsoft, dude, they're like held with a gun against their head, you know, like against their temple, you know? You talk

to anybody in industry during GDC, opposite opposite view on her reception at GDC. I talked to like a dozen people about it. So, anyway, Well, yes. I'm well beyond my one sentence, so let's move on.
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this was really interesting. Zynga has quietly and surprisingly launched Borderlands Mobile as a free-to-play looter shooter on the US App Store without a formal announcement. I think this is like I think it's testing. I hope it's testing, but you don't usually launch in the US like this. So, anyway, the game features its signature franchise elements including campaign missions, a tower of terror mode, and a circle of slaughter because, you know, you got to slaughter things in Borderlands. Development is attributed to Natural Motion, the UK-based studio known for Star Wars Hunters, the other huge success that Kress Kress's favorite. This release marks the first time Zynga has utilized IP from Take-Two Interactive portfolio since they had the acquisition Well, since actually Take-Two acquired Gearbox Software in 2024. The title is currently a regional exclusive, so it's only in the US and not, you know, anywhere else. And then, I did a quick Sensor Tower check yesterday or actually today. I think I did it this morning. They're at 103,000

downloads worldwide. I mean, it's only in the US. And zero revenue, so I guess monetization isn't on. I would hope, I guess, question mark. So, Laura, what did you think about this one? I know I know you're the puzzle queen, but you're also the mobile queen. What What do you think? There are very few launches like this that I can think of. Like a stealth launch for a normal normally premium title on mobile to me is uncommon. And as you said, as you mentioned, it probably think it's a test. I think it's a test, too. So, for anyone who's watching can see the same chart we're looking at. My first reaction was this has to be some sort of drive or desire to get early organic, quote unquote, air bunny quotes feedback more than they want this like large marketed mobile release. And you know, since revenue is zero, my first instinct is they may not even have monetization in this. Now, granted, I have not played it. Before you come at me with pitchforks, I acknowledge I've not opened this game yet. I'm too busy playing Picopia. I played like 100 hours on that. But the revenue being zero is to me a high indicator of that. Also

what came to mind, this reminds me of anything of more of a Supercell approach. Very limited market release, have a read, make changes. But it's strange to be always strange to me to be doing it in a market like the US unless they're super confident in what they've built and they expect few changes. Cuz once you launch in the US, it's usually your golden cohort somewhere in there. So it's like, are you spoiling that? Are you How much do you want to sacrifice that for the read cuz it makes a it could make a larger launch after the fact once you take those changes in much more difficult. Yeah. Yeah, Chris.
Chris. Yeah, made a lot of faces there.
[laughter]
First. First. First. First. First, this game is being built by Natural Motion as you said, the devs that brought you the Star Wars MOBA on mobile. Which basically means this is a redemption story.
[laughter]
So it's a weird launch, you know, US and Apple only with no revenue, you know, and seemingly no way to actually spend money in the game. I mean, are they trying to light money on fire? I mean,

like what what's happening, right? Now, this is a limited test through the end of April. So it's kind of like a alpha? I don't It is just not how you do I mean, actually, I'm I'm working on a project for a client and we just did a huge play test analysis of like, how are mobile games actually coming to market? How you do pre-alpha testing, getting to alpha, how you then move to different betas. And by the way, there are different kinds of betas, especially on Android where you have, you know, you can get a reviews or not reviews. I I'm questions.
This is not how you do it. I'm not sure I I'm not sure I would stealth launch in the US, you know? I mean, you only get to offer a two to launch once, you know, to the biggest market in the world. You know, why not do a traditional test like in the Philippines or somewhere else, you know, if you're particularly if you're not even testing monetization, you're testing network tech and other stuff. It doesn't even make sense. So the fundamental thing is you're potentially losing your best customers

with an unfinished product, you know, like the the early the early golden cohort are the ones that like are downloading your game organically almost, you know? So I don't know. I'm sure there far smarter people than me that are trying to figure this out at Zynga, but maybe not. They did you a MOBA. They did do a Star Wars MOBA. Like I mean, how smart can you possibly be, right? Anyway, the game is great though. I actually played the game. If you download the game, the game is amazing, right? Like it is a truly a Borderlands game. And, you know, it's mission-based, the shooting is really cool. Like I think they did a good job with that. It's really super high fidelity. And what's cool for mobile is they do have a bunch of activities that are like built for short short sessions, like so it was built with mobile in mind. So I I would also say that Borderlands is actually a really fun experience in general, right? It's a little bit old school. I don't think it's meant for mobile at all in my view. I don't think that's the right I think it's much better on PC and console, which seems like obvious. But the problem with the franchise, and I've

said this before, is it is not really contemporary anymore. They keep redoing and arguably improving, but keep redoing the same formula over and over and over again. But I think the audience has kind of moved on from this. And the fundamental problem with Borderlands 4, the last iteration on console and PC, is it just didn't retain for right? And it didn't sell as many nor did it retain because their live ops design is not contemporary at all. So we'll see how this does on mobile, right? I in some ways I'm actually a little bit more positive to see if they can actually get this thing moving, you know, without the monetization hooks, it's really hard to know. But the gameplay is actually pretty good, but it just yeah, it doesn't seem like it it's likely not going to go anywhere, but I'll I'll we'll see when they start launching with actual monetization.
Was that Tiny Tina game built in the Borderlands universe? Am I remembering that correctly? From Take-Two? Yes.
Or sorry, from 2K. Some kind of 2K launch?
[clears throat]
2K owns Borderlands now. Well, 2K's

always published Borderlands and now they own it. They just bought it. Okay. The other interesting thing to note is I didn't get to play a lot of it. I opened it up is it's made with Unreal Engine with a big splash screen, which I don't even know why like it was so weird to see splash screens in a game. Like I so it felt like so 2018. The other thing that felt 2018 was it opens with a minute or so long unskippable video. And I was like like like poking myself in the like nobody does that anymore. Please, please, number one is remove that. It also asked me to pick a character. Stop it. Just stop it. If you're making a mobile game in this day and age, there's almost no such thing as like these unskippable videos, these pick a characters. There's almost no such thing as a fait accompli anymore. The games that work best on mobile are ones that drop you in and guide you through as you're starting to play the game. You're engaged, you're giving like signposting

and direction, but we're not relying on this stop, let me have a thing on the screen and tell like it's just we've moved on from that. At least in my experience and what I've been seeing, especially in games from China, especially which by the way, they I think there was a report that seven of the top 15 games worldwide were made by Chinese publishers and Chinese developers. It's like crazy. We should be learning from how do you get quick to the fun? How do you drop me into playing? So Chris, I don't know, are you seeing that as well? Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, it's super old school design that's what I was trying to say. It's like designed just like Borderlands has been forever, right? And you choose character with no context by the way. Like you have no idea what these characters are. They're not introduced in any way. I mean, I don't even know if
for me. Pick Who cares? It's first person. You can't see your character anyway.
Like collect players. Like yeah, do do what mobile people do, you know, like
Yeah. This is the hardest thing that I see in development when you've got HD or, you know, you've got the triple-A,

you know, brand and IP trying to come to mobile, there's too much of that bleeding in to what works best in mobile. And I think I don't know. It My impression in the first few minutes of doing it was that was like it was too it was too triple-A. Yeah, I Dude, these guys built a Star Wars MOBA. Like after like Don't get me going. Like But the game was good, wasn't it? I mean, the game itself, the game I mean, I don't know. Just it doesn't work. Okay, anyway. Let's talk about a game that is great. I was going to say it's called Pokémon Champions, but in my mind I was thinking it's Picopia. But I want to talk about Pokémon Champions today. So little summary of what I pulled. So Pokémon Champions released in April 8th last week for Nintendo Switch and Switch 2 as a free-to-start battle simulator. The Yeah, the game serves as the exclusive home for Pokémon video game championships, also called VGC, that competitive format going forward. A mobile version is confirmed for later

this year with the Switch version receiving a starter pack bundle option. So why did I pull this? It actually it sent me down a rabbit hole looking at kind of Pokémon as a whole cuz I was like, oh, they're coming out with a lot of Pokémon games. I just want to take a look here. What I think is interesting is the trend of Nintendo, rather the trend of the Pokémon company that I'm extrapolating from looking at all this, moving from a franchise on a single console to the start of a cross-platform strategy. I think they were going to move in this direction eventually, but I feel like they're start we're starting to see the beginnings of it now. So for some context, in 9 months there have been five Pokémon products spanning a wide berth of player types. So all these games that they're coming out with, they have a casual game, they have competitive games, they have tournament event games, they have an RPG game, they have a cozy game. And this is starting to feel more like a platform rollout than individual releases. I feel like they're trying to change the narrative here a little bit. What I don't know is

that this could be category flooding. Like right? So how many it's looking at are there enough different types of players that like Pokémon and then all all in these different types of player behaviors and genres? I think so, but TBD. I think that we'll see soon. The VGC, so the video game Pokémon Champions, pulls out competition from individual games and places it into its own space. So usually you when you battle in these games, your your progress in battling is kind of limited to the game version you're playing. And going back to the point, so now it's really depending on how you want to interact with Pokémon, I feel like they've completed the card set. Picopia, which I keep mentioning, is you want to casually hang out. Now, Champions, which is new, is for the arena. And I put Legends for the story adventure. So this also got me thinking, this feels like the call before the pokebattle.net storm a little bit. I I'm giving myself I was chuckling when I that came to mind.
[laughter]
And if I was to guess as to what's fueling the Switch 2 popularity, usually we think it has to be Mario, but I feel

like there's now a distinct move from Mario to Pokémon based on the US eShop's number one number one charts. So it is now number one on those top charts for games where usually, I mean, I'm I used to see like Mario Wonder whatever new whatever new thing's coming out. I'm assuming in a high attach rate for this and like just for the games in general, like the Pokémon games that have come out and jumping a little bit back to Picopia, like these games I expect to do really, really well. Um for cozy sims, they have retention rate, I imagine is incredibly high because Animal Crossing did well. And if we think back to Animal Crossing in the height of COVID, that was I mean part of it was COVID that led to so much engagement cuz you what else are you going to do? You're going to build a little house. But, I feel like they're making smart moves in the space overall in terms of how they're approaching players and how they're approaching things to do. I don't think Nintendo's surrendering to mobile yet. I don't think I know we've been saying Nintendo's quite focused on console, they need to be more mobile, but I do

think they're hedging their bets here. And I was picturing in my head there was this boardroom boardroom was debating the point on whether to include mobile as a platform and thinking, "Well, there's a lot of our player base on mobile devices. It could be helpful to long-term engagement in markets that it can't afford the $500 Switch 2 price." So, I was like, "Okay, yeah, that that seems that seems legit. I feel like that's possible." And what has of course set a little bit in terms of what was a not really big news, but there was a quiet system update for Nintendo for stability. And when I think about that in the context of everything they're releasing, it makes sense for these hypothesized future plans for Nintendo, which is their plan to scale, scale, scale. So, that was my my take. Jen, what are your thoughts?
[laughter]
Well, question, isn't the Pokémon Company separate for Nintendo? Cuz when you said mobile, I was like, "Oh, Nintendo's not doing mobile, but Pokémon Company is different." And so, you know, obviously through Pokémon Go and other mobile mobile games, they're highly successful.

And so, they're building a franchise. Like, they're truly building a franchise with a franchise And you ask can can Pokémon as an IP go across multiple subgenres? Marvel does it, Star Wars does it, except in Mopas. You just have to view Pokémon as a video game first IP that yes, is able to expand to other subgenres. Anyway, the thing I wanted to cover a little bit of the of the massive 30th anniversary marking campaign. So, this campaign is called what's your favorite? And this is where I tell Chris to get ready to throw up because I'm going to talk all about brand marketing and how I think this is actually pretty cool in what they're doing and leading into like if you're going to do this, this is how you do it cuz Phil's going to be like, "Where's the product? Where's the revenue going?" Laura just talked about it. Listen to all the games that are coming out in addition to all these other collaborations. And this might be one of the biggest brand marketing campaigns outside of what I typically see in Call of Duty. And what I love about this is the audience.

They are going nostalgic and they are also still doing kid. So, they're doing both at the same time to really reach and reignite like everyone's interest in this IP. So, it all started in the US, we have this thing called the Super Bowl. And so, the Super Bowl ad had, you know, Lady Gaga, Trevor Noah, like all these other like famous people that are too cool that I don't even know. And by the way, they were global. Some of them even spoke in their native languages in that ad, which was super cool. So, it was about these celebrities who grew up with Pokémon and have an attachment. And Lady Gaga actually did a duet with Jigglypuff, which is pretty cute. The ad buy alone was probably 20 million plus and you imagine celebrities and production, you you know, you're getting to like 40 million probably for that ad. So, Pokémon night out is this really interesting concert in LA and London. It's going to be Marshmallow plus Alison Wonderland. It's a EDM kind of, you know, idea. And so, this falls under

their night out events, which is targeted again, nostalgia, older fans, which is separate from day out, which are family-friendly. So, again, like super cool way that they're segmenting the audience. So, other things they have going on, brilliant LEGO plus Pokémon. Historically, when I was in the toy industry, these always sold incredibly well. They have three sets coming out in February. They have a ton more the rest of the year. There's McDonald's Happy Meal that's happening in March. Uniqlo has a 30th anniversary collection with like watercolor artwork from '96. Again, nostalgic. So, really trying to go after multiple audiences. This is what I might have to do is Adidas Originals so you can get your Samba with, you know, like Pokémon on it. So, that's dropping in September. Adult and kid lines. They have a Natural History Museum Pokology pop-up in London. Laura, is is one of your favorite places. So, it's going on now actually through April Oh, well, through April 19th. So, it ends in a couple of days. They had, you know, they'll have all So, what's brilliant is

they have exclusive merch at every one of these. They have exclusive cards. That's actually sold out so you can't go. And then, I think the final thing I had was Pokémon Presents. So, this was back in February, product announcements that Pokémon Wins and Pokémon Waves, so the new main line RPGs for Switch 2 as you talked about, Fire Red Leaf Green re-releases on Switch, Pokémon Pokopia. I can't even say the the game that you love and Pokémon Champions. So, all all of this wraps up into what I think is like, "This is what I talk about when I talk about franchise plans. This is what Phil should be on saying, 'Jen, you're right. Look at the product tied to the marketing. Chris, can I convince you maybe this one time that this is the right way to do it.'" There's also Pokémon collaborations with Tiffany & Co. Oh my god, so high-end. Like, BRILLIANT. LOVE IT.
[laughter]
POKéMON MARKETING. YAY! ALL RIGHT, CHRIS, go ahead, throw up on it. Go ahead. Let's hear it. I'm good. I I I I think Pokémon's become such a

massive success out there that all these activities are probably leading to the overall zeitgeist around Pokémon. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to like crap on this stuff because I do think this stuff makes sense for this particular IP. The problem is that [laughter] people are going to these marketing consultants out there are going to use this as an example to justify all their costs and expense, their hourly cost,
[laughter]
their fractional CMO to build out all these activities for IP that doesn't make sense. That's what I would say. Yeah, thank you for on what I do for a living. Appreciate it.
[laughter]
You asked my You insisted. You insisted.
[gasps]
Oh, no, I'm kidding. I actually a lot more of what I do is like the strategy work for products, but I just love that on the record I got you to not on a marketing campaign and say it was actually the right thing to do. So, I'm going to walk away with that as a as a huge win. Huge, huge win. Okay. All right, let's do our final topic because pulled this for you,

Chris, cuz you're a Destiny player. So, this is NetEase. NetEase overhaul Destiny Rising's monetization in its season 4 update, removing energy gates and adding free-to-play pass to characters after months of declining revenue and players. So, here's what's been going on with Destiny Rising on mobile. It's earned 11 million at launch in September 25 and then revenue dropped 65% October and 80% by November. Oof. So, as we sadly predicted, it was not on a good path by how we saw the launch going. By March of 26, Google Play monthly active users hit 9,000. Oof. Roughly 7% of the game's September 25 peak. NetEase cut two core monetization mechanics at once, replacing paid gates with free progression systems. Players are calling this Destiny Rising 2.0 as they try to, you know, like get the paddles out and shock it back to life. So, two simultaneous moves away from revenue

could signal a desperate pivot or maybe like a last effort for NetEase or bet that happier players spend a little bit more longer term. So, Chris, have you been paying attention to this one? Is this going to help? What do you think? This game is DOA and I'm waiting for Destiny 3 on PC for sake. But, I'm not playing this stuff on mobile. You're out of your goddamn mind. No.
[laughter]
Let's just Let's just wait. Let's wait. I think I think they got one more in them, man. They they got to prove themselves cuz evidently Destiny 2 is in the too, you know, like PC and console. I have heard that. Well, they're in middle of trouble. And then, Marathon also struggling from what I'm hearing? Yeah, it's over. Yeah, it's over. Totally over. I just I was saw an article, I didn't get to dig into it that said that Marathon's asking its dropped an update to ask players to be nicer to each other.
[laughter]
Because apparently the game is so sweaty and so anytime I talk to anyone who's playing, they're like, "Oh my god, I I need like I need like a calming after

cuz you're just so hyped because it's so sweaty." But, yeah, our
[clears throat]
our IP to some of these things. Yeah, it's the Bungie situation is not good. Not good at all. Feel for those guys. I really do. Well, Laura, lovely to have you. We'll have you again in a in a month or so. You Love when you guys are cool. Yeah, everything else good for you? Any any life updates? Any, you know, Seattle in summer is coming up. If I could turn the camera around so you could see outside, it's it's full-on rain. And right after this, I'll be driving to the office. So, we're in the we're in rainy season, but after rainy season comes flowers. So, it's hopefully summer's on the way. Things are good. Just trucking along. I got my emotional support water bottle with me at all times.
[laughter]
Oh, I did I was in Florida last week. I didn't talk about Florida. Well, we were in Florida with my son last week visiting my buddy. I forgot what I was going to say. Yeah. And uh Yeah, I was wondering where you you know, I I forgot the reason why you weren't on the pod last week. So, what happened in Florida?

It's Florida, right? So, you know, it's beautiful. Like, it's brand new. We were like at West Palm Beach and like we went to Miami. It's It's a beautiful place.
[laughter]
I can't picture you at like Nikki Beach in Miami, Chris. Do you have like your white linen outfits that you were donning for that?
[laughter]
He was in a speedo for sure. Of course. I Of course, it was absolutely overcast and raining the entire time we went there, but
[laughter]
it cleared up enough to go see a lot of the things. Um What's interesting about Florida is it like it's all kind of brand new in a way. It's really clean and these houses on the beach are so insane. It's like Atherton on the Atherton houses on the beach. Like they're just absolutely massive. West Palm Beach is kind of up and coming for a yuppie type neighborhood. But man, it is disturbingly white. I I I can't stand places that are so white that it it makes me uncomfortable, right? Like it is it is so ethnically non-diverse

in these places that it is Miami was supposed to be very diverse, you know, a lot of
All right. Sorry.
Cubanos, a lot of Latinos, Asians.
is an exception, but West Palm Beach and like all these beach towns and I saw Mar-a-Lago. Oh, wow. Okay.
Oh. Now, I actually have context as what that place is and where it is. It is absolutely in an insane place on West Palm Beach. But yeah, it was it was really nice. It was it was it was great. It's a great place to vacation. I would not want to live there and I certainly wouldn't want to raise kids there
[laughter]
cuz that is like
That's unacceptable. Yeah, that's all I got. All right, that's all we got. All right.
good. We're going to be wrapped [laughter] on banter. It's We We did the podcast in reverse today. It's great. All right, everyone, thank you so much and we'll see you next week. You did it. You made it to the [music] end of the episode. As a fan of the show, it would help us out if you would subscribe and leave us a review on the podcast service of your choice. Those stars and likes, while a small action on your part mean a lot to us and

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from the Deconstructor of Fun content creators. Thanks for listening.