The Complete Guide to Gaming's Fastest-Growing UA Channel

You need to understand that loyalty platform is a channel like every channel that you need to specialize in. You need to have the right events. You need to have enough content. You need to understand your game mechanics and flow. You need to understand what events are extremely important for a user to stick in the game. [music] us what is a loyalty app and how it is different from rewarded video or an offer wall. So a loyalty app is a place where a user discovers games that are obviously recommended on a personal taste that offers rewards based on progression within those games. And the way it's different from offer walls, there's a huge difference even even in the the basic of things. Like an offer wall is an ad placement at the end of the day. Um we are a platform. We are an

app that is located on the device. We can work with the user obviously and an offer wall can't. And the main difference as well is that an offer wall sends the user outside the game and we're pushing the user to stay in the game all the time. So there's a bunch of differences. Can you walk me through the the through the journey from players perspective like when it comes from a discovery to an install to becoming a loyal player on a platform like the one that you run vibes
platforms has their own different user journeys but in essence a user will sign into the platform once he will sign in he will get offered a bunch of games based on the documentation engine. Um, and with each game he will get

a bunch of um can be tasks uh that are based on time. It can be tasks that are based on achieve this kingdom kingdom or this uh level. Um and once he will press on the game, he will go to the app store, let's say Google Play to download the game. And once he started playing, as he progresses within the game, he obviously achieves more tasks and more eventually rewards. And once he accumulates enough loyalty points, let's say, he can then redeem a gift card like a Sephora, Zara, Google Play, doesn't really matter. Uh, real world rewards. So, it's essentially like an app store on steroids because it's like an app store with recommendations based on personalization and playing a game putting in the engagement in a specific game rewards you with not only in-game

rewards but actually tangible rewards outside the game. You can say it's some sort of a discovery platform as well like as you said an app store of sorts. Uh that is more interactive, more tailor made. Um as we said you get recommended to different games based on your personal taste but also you get different let's say tasks within different games based on your behavior. It's more dynamic. It's not like one sizefits-all. And how does this work as a business? Like I'm talking about the pricing because if your focus is on loyalty and engagement,
it's not really the typical let's drive as much traffic as possible because you're trying to keep the players specifically in these games. So what's the uh what's the business side of this? So we work with a lot of our clients on a CPI mo model and now we kind of moved to a a roas model where we tell them

don't give us a fixed CPI we will predict how much the user will be at value for you and based on that we'll price them and the end of the day you will pay us an effective CPI um but obviously because we're aiming to hit their KPIs and the Ross goals long term Um so we found that it's better for us and for the clients obviously to work on a noas optimization uh type of model. So they are paying for the long-term investment and engagement of that player rather than only based on the install in the beginning because typically if they would pay only on CPI install then that could be pretty high of a price. if it's also give them the ability to scale with us like we just um we we just talked about it yesterday with one of our clients like that we he was one of the design partners for the

was optimization engine so um we were kind of stuck for a long period of time because let's for the sake of the example he wanted to pay $10 CPI and he wanted to get 10% was day seven right so you are very limited with the type of users you can send his Okay. Right. And once you move to loss optimization and you kind of predict what users um will be worth what and how much you need to price them based on that. So it kind of opened him to work with all of our user base because some users are worth way more than $10, some users are worth way less. But that way he could have scaled and we just saw it like week after week he just like ramped up. And talking about scaling, can loyalty apps be a primary channel for player acquisition?
Oh yeah, 100%. Like I see today that even big companies are spending somewhere in the 25 to 50% of their

media budget into loyalty platforms. Um, and we're talking about like hundreds of thousands of dollars a day uh in spend in a specific platform. I saw that as well. Um so I think today it's it's a major driver uh compared to other years where it was I would say in the sidelines
and and how about the the classic criticism I mean I've been criticizing incentivized traffic a lot based on my experience which were not you know loyalty apps back in the days I'm holding up give it to me to be to be with the uh with the offer walls and every time we get an offer wall campaign going I would see it from the product perspective as a surge of new users and all the KPIs collapsing. Basically seeing that in my books incentivized traffic was the same as low LTV web stores. You've seen what good looks like, but have you seen great app charge

is the direct to consumer platform backed by the likes of Supercell and built by monization pros from Moon Active, Platika, Huge Games and others. People who know the difference. App charge powers over half a billion dollars in transaction a year for top studios optimizing every detail. Deeply personalized web store offers, custommade design, industryleading monetization features, in-game payments SDK, and [music] more. 70% of top grossing games already have a web store, but the one scaling fastest, they're doing it with AppCharge. Learn more at appcharge.com. The main concern about
[clears throat]
um loyalty platforms it's the flatlining right everybody's concerned what's going to happen after the reward structure will be finished is a user still going to stay and I think that's like one of the biggest problems of the industry

today it's something that is being affected by so many let's say different things within the users's journey like how much rewards do you give him? What's the reward structure? How is it built? Is it linear? Is it not linear? Is it depressing? Is it declining? Is it rising? Like there's so many ways to work around it. What kind of users are you sending? And how do you recommend a specific user to the game that matches his taste? Um, so I think the way I see it is that loyalty platforms today can serve is a can serve as a major driver um for scaling for fast recouping um it will definitely be a challenge for let's say the games that

the recouping period is let's say a year, a year and a half, a lot after the reward structure is being done.
Mhm.
It's a challenge 100%. I think it's the biggest challenge of the industry. Um, and specifically, it's the biggest challenge of the big companies that take a lot of time to recoup, but we see that it can definitely work. Not just with us, obviously, I see it with other loyalty platforms as well that are doing great job uh by recommending the right games to the right users, by building the right reward structure. um in the sense that because you have to understand also within the reward structure you can create what I like to call an abuse. You can over give and you can build a reward structure in a way that a user can get frustrated but you can also build it in a way that it's I'm not going to say nice to have thing for the user but like an extra thing for

the user. It's not his main goal. I see that mistake with a lot of loyalty platforms specifically even the new ones. they are glorifying money too much instead of glorifying achievements and they try to throw more money at the user and eventually what it creates is obviously the flatline um and a big abuse.
And what do you think are the best genres both in terms of the best quality of players and and those that fit these loyalty platforms? I saw it work for almost all of the genres. Like I haven't seen a genre like that I can say well this is not working for them 100%. Like I saw it from casual to midcore to core strategy whatever it is like I see it. Uh I see the companies that are buying media from loyalty. I see the companies that are working with us. Um and yeah and it's working. I I

think it really it's a it's really a matter of not the specific genre. It's more a matter of um does the company that buys media from the loyalty platforms um let's say knows how to work with loyalty platforms.
What do you mean by that?
The biggest misconception that I saw a lot of the times is that loyalty platforms are magic. I'm going to throw a dollar. I'm going to get to 100% no matter what because I'm incentivizing the user. It's not the case. The thing is that you need to understand that loyalty platform is a channel like every channel that you need to specialize in. You need to have the right events. You need to have enough content. You need to understand your game mechanics and flow. You need to understand what events are extremely important for a user to stick in the game. uh you need to understand and see

that the user have enough time to get to those events like there's a lot of work to be done. Um and more and more today because obviously loyalty platforms are becoming such such a mainstream channel you see with all the major companies and also not the big ones you see departments of people that are specializing in loyalty. That's the entire focus working with loyalty platforms and making it work. Uh because it requires attention and resources.
Okay. And when it comes to these players that are coming through loyalty platforms, are they inherently different than the players that are acquired from traditional channels?
So it definitely behaves differently um 100%. It progresses much faster. Um, so

yes, in the short term the the players are different. In the long term, if you're doing a good job, those users will behave like users that are coming from every other channel. And the you will see it after the reward structure is done. Uh, I would say a couple of weeks after where there is no incentive. uh and I heard it a lot from a bunch of our clients that let's say if the reward structure is finished at day 45 when they look at the traffic at day 90 all the sources are behaving the same because the users that stick they just stick it's just like users um what what is different is that you have the ability in loyalty platforms you have the ability to work with the user you have the ability to push the users to do actions that you want and and I That's like a huge advantage if you know how to work with it.
Understood. And what makes like like I'm

curious like what makes these users stick rather than being reward chasers? Because I would assume that when you grow your platform, there's more and more users and you want them to install more games and engage more in those games. That's good for the platform. But at the same time, that might not be good for the companies that are buying users because the users that are best for your platform are the maximalist reward chasers. When I started Vibes, I knew there's going to be a challenge of understanding the balance point between what is best for Vibes in terms of revenue and what is best for our clients, right? Because the business model is pretty straightforward, right? The more games the users will download, the more money we will make. But as a company agenda, you want to create as much value as you can for the game

studio. So there's always the question like, okay, so when do I push the user to download another game? Um, and what I saw and what we saw in the data is that we don't need to push them. It kind of happens in a very natural way. Um, and in a balanced way. So, we don't really need to to push them to download more games. Even the flip side, the way we work and the way we build our user journey is that I'll give you an example. If a user downloads a game, the second he will come back to the to Vibes as an app, he will see the game that he downloaded or the games that he downloaded and we're going to push him to go back to the games because we understand like in a natural way if he'll get bored, he will just discover new games. He will download something else like obviously every other person. Um, so it's our job to push him more and more to be engaged with the game he

downloaded and create value to our to our friends and the game studios.
Stay ahead of the competition with Sensor Tower, the trusted source for mobile marketing intelligence. Whether you're tracking trends, benchmarking performance, or scouting the next big hit, Sensor Tower delivers the data that drives strategy. dominate the charts with Sensor Tower.
Okay. And when when do you see studios should be looking into using loyalty apps? Do like in what phase of basically their product? Is it something that you take on early when you're in soft launch because you know ideally you can improve your traffic quite a bit for for the soft launch by bringing these loyalty users or is it something that you reserve uh for global launch phase or even for the maturity phase where you're essentially know your traffic and you're uh focusing on well you're always focusing on ROAS but really focusing on

maximizing the the value from the game. So, I'll say this. Um, I think that there's a huge advantage of approaching loyalty platforms kind of early. Um, not too early because as we said, you need to have enough content. You need to have to some extent a mature monetization like you need to understand that you have the right tools to work with the user. monetization content obviously um the advantage is that like the way let's say loyalty platform work is that if you'll buy a user from Google for example right um a user might create I don't know 200% was LTV within two years right just for the sake of the example [clears throat]

a loyalty platform will give you 150%. But within 4 months, right? So you kind of sacrificing a few margin points in order to get a healthier cash flow. So it will help specifically smaller companies with their cash flow and their ability to grow uh and not wait too much. But the those the one thing I'll give it as an advice um and I always say it to all of our clients specifically the small ones you have to separate in terms of data the way um you save data from users coming from loyalty platforms to users not coming from loyalty platforms because what happens is you create a feature and you think it's extremely sticky and everybody adopts it and it's working amazing. But on the flip side, what the game economy or wherever it is

didn't know that those users are coming from loyalty platforms. So they're incentivized. So it's behaving a bit differently. So it doesn't really represents the success of the feature you just built. So you have to separate the data if you want to work properly and continue building your game features, mechanisms, whatever it is. That's like one of the biggest advices I think I can give some a lot of the companies also taking that to the next step. If you have the resources, you can give a different um let's say or a more aggressive monetization to users coming from loyalty platform.
So always track them uh differently. they should get a different treatment if it's doable and you should track them differently and I wouldn't say isolate them but yeah at the end of the day the other side the product person the game economist whoever it is needs to see the differences when he measures everything
okay how long does it does it usually

take before you start succeeding and I understand that so you take loyalty apps when you've sort of stabilized your game economy so probably not in soft launch when you're big changes because in order for loyalty app to work, you have to have a separate type of u rewards coming in from the loyalty platform etc. So that doesn't work. Now you're in a global launch phase. Um you you stabilize your economy, you're integrating the loyalty app. How long does it take before you start getting those benefits? As you said, the the paybacks are faster, but how what's the integration of the of the uh of the loyalty app? Like what's the time span? So, there's not obviously one answer. Um, I saw clients that it's it works off the bat. I saw clients that we need to do a lot of adjustments. Um, luckily for us, one of one of the things that we've built is the ability to AB test like two reward structure

simultaneously. Um, so it kind of shortens the cycles of learning. I see a lot of UI managers making decisions out of pressure. Now, they don't come with patience. Um, and I think that's like a huge mistakes because I don't really have an answer if it will take a week or 3 weeks or four weeks. I can tell you that I saw cases where
it took a week and I saw cases where it took like six weeks, seven weeks and eventually it was a major success. But luckily for us, the other side was patient enough and looked at other KPIs except for example A7 and he saw that in essence the users are good and it's not there yet but the material the raw material is good. You know what I mean? like he saw that there's what to work with and I think again if I compare it to other media

channels Google Facebook well up loving doesn't really matter like if I would say what is the learning cycle don't really have an answer they have an estimation right like four weeks it can be two can be six it's like really depends on the game
and what's the learning cycle like like is it is it intensive for the developer. Do they have to try multiple different things? Because like let's say you take another channel then your learning cycle is running the campaigns not stopping them but also trying very large volume of different types of creatives. What is the type of a approach that you use with loyalty app?
That's like one of the the cool things about loyalty platforms. I think it's like the only medium left that you have actually something to optimize except creatives. Uh because everything is kind of like a plugandplay, right? Doesn't matter what kind of platforms you go

into. It's like selfoptimizing. All you need to do is just like replacing creatives a lot of the times. And with us, you have, as I said, the reward structure, right? And you have the different events. And uh a lot of times we also work very intimately with our uh game studios or with our partners to adjust our promotions to uh specific events that we're pushing the users towards. Uh we try to make it as intimate as possible. So at the end of the day it depends if the client that we're starting to work with has past experience, yes or no. if he has past experience. So usually we'll start with um asking the best practice, what does he know that works and then obviously based on our knowhow and our expertise we will adjust a few things and most of the times we will start running in an AB test with like two different structures like what do we

think will work best and what his best practice um and we track it all the time. We try to understand like the user progression if there's like a specific task that users are dropping before they don't have enough time to achieve or whatever it is. Um so there's a lot of optimization but most of the work is being done by us. We try to work with the client in terms of like getting the information getting data when we need it and get his recommendations when he can uh bring it to the table. But all of the work is being done by us by by our uh team and we recommend the client what we want to do.
And how do you work with events like can you use loyalty app to amplify the the seasonal events or different type of in-game events or brand partnerships that are happening inside of a game?
Yeah, 100%. So

we in terms of events obviously there's like let's say the given events within the game based on user progression and then as you said you have seasonality if it's Halloween if it's Christmas if whatever it is if there's like a special promotion a live op whatever it is so we're a lot of the time try to add those type of events because you have to understand with us it's not just like a flat reward structure like achieve level 5 10 15. It can be all of a sudden we'll give you like something uh in the sorts of um achieve the Halloween album within the next 5 days and win this and that. So we will push to do things more dynamically and things that are more I wouldn't say real time real time but more real time and season related and work with the client to to to push for those things. Game devs, here at Heroic Labs, we know that great

gameplay is what players [music] love. But integrating metagame features like challenges, progression, and rewards is crucial for retention and monetization. But coding [music] them is a tedious and timeconuming process. That's why top studios have turned to Hero from Heroic Clabs. Hero provides a complete suite of battle tested metagame features that are quick to implement, letting you spend more time on the core gameplay experience. Ready to ship fully featured, engaging games? [music] Check out heroto today at heroiclabs.com.
And when it come when it comes to the uh the mistakes that studios might might make with loyalty apps, like you mentioned, one of them is just expecting immediate results or treating it as any other channels. And you talked about how important is to track them separately, how important it is to give time to it. What other mistakes do you see studios doing when they're venturing out and using loyalty apps?

So I think those are the major ones. I think also the last thing I see um they try to give unrealistic KPIs because I think they think to themselves okay I I'll push him like 30% more than what I want and worst comes to worse he will give us he will give me what I actually want and and I think that's a mistake because a lot of the times and where do you call the bluff when you tell the client like okay amazing but and he says okay I I want more scale. And I was like, I can't scale. The KPIs are too high. So, it doesn't make sense. And again, it's not all of the clients. It's not even most of them. It's some of them. I think it's a mistake. At least
I understand. Understand.
I think, by the way, it's it's a problem with every channel in the industry. Like, you always say more than what you really want to get.
Yeah.

But I don't know.
Yeah. Well, especially with every new channel like studios looking for growth and in order to stand out the new new channels come in and say we can deliver the better traffic than your previous channels. But the problem is is that these new channels are new. So you don't have experience with them. And it probably takes time before the traffic is as good as promised. And when you're comparing them against your existing channels that you've mastered, then it's not as good. And that might be the time when you're just saying, "Okay, this is all [ __ ] It doesn't work. Let's just double down on the channels that we know."
Yeah. But at the end of the day, you open more channels because you want to have healthy infrastructure to scale, right? And every channel behaves differently. And I think that, and now we're I'm taking a step back. It's a very let's say philosophical um conversation at the moment of like all the time the way I see it is that a lot of the times and I see it with

uh let's say small networks is when companies ask for too much like extremely high KPIs what it causes sometimes I saw that it creates fraud because those small networks just wants the client and they want to make them happy. So, and they're saying, "Okay, I can never achieve those KPIs and actually make a margin. So, I need to do something, right?" And I think that's like one of the things that are pumping the FUD in the in the space. And again, we we saw it in a lot of cycles in the past 15 years, but that's why I'm against it. like say what you what you really want to get and attach it to what the game can actually make because sometimes okay you want 30% day7 amazing does your monetization structure supports that is it doable like so

that's the that's the way I see again personal opinion
talking about the the future of loyalty apps like how do they see how do you see them evolving from today.
So I think today I think it we're just scratching the surface. So there was a couple of years where loyalty platforms were at the sidelines. Now it became a mainstream thing. It became a major traffic driver. Obviously that created um a situation where different companies are putting people that will specialize in loyalty platforms and now that there's enough attention from the loyalty from the game developers to loyalty platforms um and it's worth the effort. So now we always think like what's next and that gives the the stage to bring to the table more products. So,

one of the things that we're doing now, for example, and it's going to be interesting to see how it will evolve is we just launched a monetization product for game developers based on the loyalty engine. So, it's going to be and that's like a new product to the market. We see it works extremely well, but also it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds in the next couple of years and how it it progresses. uh as I said working more intimately creating special treatments to users um connecting as we said like promotions live op stuff like that uh as in real time as possible um that's like a bunch of examples obviously I don't know what I don't know I just see that I'm getting a lot of feedback like I see our partners are thinking very strongly how can they get more of us and what kind of products we can build for them based on the existing

platform. So I think that like would be the basic of driving let's say loyalty platforms to the next step. Um and obviously everything uh becomes more sophisticated with more sophisticated models from prediction to economy to whatever it is. So I don't have like a clear answer but like I see why it will go to the next step.
How do you see the effect of the app stores? So both the play store as well as the u the Apple's app store evolution affecting loyalty apps.
Um I don't think they give the value to the user that we give. It's it's a different offering to the user. Um obviously as I said we work differently with the game studio. We work very intimately with them. Um don't really think it will affect it's like it's a it's a different product.

It's very similar but in theory but it's a very different product.
Okay. Because there's there's evolution coming into those app stores. Like Apple released their new game app store. I forgot what it was it's called. and Google is always always trying to improve the uh the experience on play store for it to be more personalized now with AI assistance etc. So they are clearly taking some notes on how the loyalty apps have been developed as well. So I I don't know I don't see it affecting in a bad way. Um to be honest I don't I don't see let's take it to the extreme. I don't see that Google Play will give real world prizes to users. Uh obviously I see a bunch of experiments here and there but I don't see it happening.
Okay. What do you see the effect of AI being on loyalty apps?

We treat oursel as as as a game studio. Um, and the effect it has on us is just I would say behind the scenes being more efficient like creating from creatives to building code. Um, being more efficient there. That's like the way I see AI affects us at least at the moment. Uh, it just makes us more efficient. This podcast [music] is brought to you by Appsflyer. In today's digital world, understanding your app's journey from discovery to download [music] is more than just insightful. It's essential. Enter Appslier, the leader in mobile attribution and marketing [music] analytics that allows you to measure the full potential of your marketing efforts, making every ad dollar work smarter. [music] With Apps Flyier, that's your new reality. Dive deep into datadriven insights that reveal exactly where your

users come from [music] and how they'll interact with your app. Apply where your app's potential meets performance.
How do you take AI into account at Vibes? Is it part of your processes or like are you pushing it for more or just being more of a follower? Um it's because there's like different types of approaches.
No, 100%. So, I'm not like riding on my flag AI first. Everything has to be AI. We have to implement AI 100% and everything. Uh, that's not me. I'm I'm trying to kind of um I think like a lot of people, I'm trying to kind of understand uh what are the benefits and not force it just to say that I'm AI first. Um as I said we use it in our engineering team, we use it within our marketing team. Um we try to use it where we see

value and where it makes us more efficient and we adopt it like step by step. We don't have someone that is entire position is to adopt AI tools and experiment. It's not the case yet. uh maybe one day
there's just different approaches and I see some of the companies especially with with tech companies they are pushing everybody to explore the ways to use AI to validate the tools that they are building essentially. So it's a it's a it's kind of an interesting way [laughter] to find the product market fit is forcing your clients to do it for you. Um,
also, by the way, I think I think because um my partners uh love it so much and they play with it so much is that I feel comfortable not pushing it because I know they will find the things that are relevant for us.
All right, let me finish this up with five rapid fire questions about loyalty.
Okay, let's call it loyalty lightning round. [laughter]

So, uh let's start with the first one. What's the best way to spot a low quality loyalty user?
You will see it within the progression between tasks.
He will just drop. He will you will see it immediately.
It's very evident
through engagement KPIs.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, let's talk about KPIs more. What's the single KPI a game teams ignore but they shouldn't? Um was progression
raw as progression.
Yeah. A lot of the times it's like flat like day seven, day 14, day 30. Okay. Divide day 30 at day 14. See what's the progression. What are the jumps and maybe it's not exactly hitting your KPIs but maybe it's being progressed very fast or very good. Um I think it's something they should look at as well. Is that same as uh shape of the curve of the LTV per cohort?

Meaning sometimes you would see a cohort coming in and they are going pretty fast towards payback or might even cross it and you'd say, "Hey, this is great. Let's push more of this." But they actually flat lines quite quickly after after hitting payback. And then there's sometimes depending of course on a game and and a channel you would see a cohort coming in and they start lower
but the shape of the curve not never really flattened. It keeps on continuing slowly and those
because the cadence is healthy.
Yeah. and and they stick and they play and and they continue and those are actually the best type of users because the shape of the curve is constantly increasing meaning that the players retain and they continue spending even though the early spending is not that high and early engagement is not that high.
Yeah. Um 100%. Sometimes even if

let's say a cohort doesn't hit the let's say dry KPIs that you want but and it starts lower and it even doesn't hit the KPI that you want the day 30 but the progression is super healthy so like the curve would be good right I would just say like it's something that it should be I I mean, I look at it internally. I think all game studios should look at it. I assume some of them are. Um, [snorts and laughter] right. Well, let's move on to the next one. What's the one genre that you think loyalty apps will completely transform?
I don't think there's there's one genre. I do see that um casual games are getting a lot of benefit

uh because their recouping cycles are short by default regardless of loyalty platforms or shorter uh and loyalty platforms can even make it way shorter for them. So all of a sudden they have like a very good engine to scale
in a healthy way.
Okay. And what's the biggest myth about incent um incentivized players that you think is out there?
If you've been like me in the industry for 15 years, when you hear incentivize, you hear cheap stalls in 10 cents,
users that open the app and if you remember back in the day, post campaigns and stuff like that.
Uh so that's the association. I think it's a myth. It's not relevant for today. Today um we lure in to our platforms users that are extremely high-end uh and we pay a lot for them uh and it's very good users.
Last one in one sentence why should

every developer test loyalty platform this year? So, as we said throughout the podcast, um f fast learning curves, fast recouping, uh I think that equals healthy growth.
All right, Eido, floor is yours. What's going on with Vibes and what should developers expect from the company in near future?
So, a lot of good things are happening. Uh we're growing pretty fast. As I said, we just launched our monetization product as well. That looks pretty promising. Um, we are hiring. So, if you're a talented person, uh, look us up. Um, accept that.
Just good things. That's it.
I assume
grinding, growing, and monetizing
100%. [laughter]
All right. on on those three notions.

Thank you for giving the 101 on loyalty apps and thanks everybody for listening. Check out Vibes VBS and link in the description. So, thanks everybody.
Thank you.
You did it. You made it to the end of the episode. As a fan of the show, it would help us out if you'd subscribe and leave us a review on the podcast [music] service of your choice. Those stars and likes, while small action on your part, mean a lot to us and help to grow the show. More importantly, are you a member of the Deconstructor of Fun Slack group? If you have 5 years or more of games industry experience, go to deconstructorofund.com/slack [music] and apply to join. Join the games industry best professional community filled with peers always willing to lend a hand or [music] subscribe to our newsletter to get all the latest insights from the deconstructor of fun content creators. Thanks for listening.

[music]