The 4 Generations of Rewarded Ads: Personalization + LiveOps = The Future of Offerwalls

The perfect monetization solution is one that can use that data and show different games that actually perform really well for that particular source automatic
casual versus RPG.
Exactly.
Okay.
If you have an IIA based game on UA and you're optimizing for UA for IIA, right? And that works really well for IIA games on the off wall, then you want to show more IIA games so that you maximize the users and maximize
from that one. And if you have a UA channel that is optimized towards AP and those users are AP purchasing users and they suddenly want to play a game on the offer instead of making a purchase, right? You want to show them more AP based games because that will probably perform better, right?
Okay. So, yeah. And if you if you don't have the segmentation and you're buying from all these sources and then you show the offer wall which is focused on IA games to the IIP roas campaign it's going to absolutely it's 4 a.m. And we're rolling the dice but drops knowledge made of golden eyes. Felix with ads making those coins rise.

Jack up designs worlds chasing the sky. We're the two and a half gamers. The midnight crew talking UA adverts and game design too. Mate Felix Shaku bringing the insight. We're rocking those vibes till the early day. Master eyes on the prize. Tracking data through the cyber space. Felix like a wizard in disguise. Jacks lift us to the high. Two and a half gamers talking smack. Slow hockey stick got your back. Ads are beautiful. They light the way. Click it fast. Don't delay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Ah. Ah. Hello everybody. Welcome. This is a very very special episode. I mean or extra special episode. How do we call how do we call it Felix? Because we have Felix and me as hosts and we have Zeno on the podcast again because there is not

enough information about the UA channels and the last episode was actually really popular. Everybody loved it and also everybody loved your takes, you know. So, welcome back. Welcome back.
Thanks for having me guys. Thanks. What an honor that you guys uh still like me after the four last calls.
Yeah, I mean like we had a really great discussion about the demand side. So public or basically advertisers doing UA with these rewarded platforms. But today we're going to focus on a much more interesting topic which is closer to my mind which is essentially the monetization side of this or the supply side of the rewarded ad side. So yeah I'm very excited for this
which makes the money right. That's really the side the one side can give the money the other side makes the money right. So
I like both of them.
Yeah I like you how you improved the the background and the lighting and everything. So now you're closer to to us. Way way more closer to us.
Oh, I learned from you guys. You guys are real professionals, right? So I'm just I'm following I'm following your lead how you guys did it. So I'm just looking at it.
Well, I'm seeing in my daughter's room. So I mean, so I'm a bit far from there,

but yeah, but it's good. All right. So, uh, do we want to go for like the like what the history looks like and how how we got here? Because that's interesting. Uh, from like multiple p different perspectives.
Let's set the mood. You know, it's 2014. Top joy is just getting started.
Yeah. A good history. Let's let's start off with that. Yeah. Um Yeah. Cool, guys. So, you know, the the history of rewarded monetization was really actually quite a long one. It's it's quite as old as as you can say, right? Giving discounts or giving some ways of rewards to users has been like uh the number one marketing tactic since the beginning, right? But so you it's basically a true marketing tactic that always helps with getting people to get value from different demand or different products or different items or anything like that. And we just actually have that model that got copied into the the app world. But it started off very simple actually, right? So if you think about the old day of rewarded, it was really just a monation of an offer wall

where you can download a game and you get a little reward per install, right? And why was that monation tactic so successful? Why was it actually so good? It was really just to get higher in the rankings back in the day, right?
Yeah.
And that was the only reason why. And you had all these reward apps that were just there just to give rewards to users, reward them out to actually just download the game. And it was a very profitable mon solution in the beginning. That's really where like the iron sources really started off in in the industry, right? It was they did offer walls and did boost campaigns and that was a really big part of what they did. And that's actually where
that's right.
Yeah. Free my apps, these kind of things. And that was back in the day was like the biggest something like Yeah. And all of these different things.
Yeah. It was the way the main way to really grow your app because then you could get a lot of organic users because that was where most of the money was made, but it was also a great way to monetize apps and and monetize them. And that's really where it started off with. And that's when the the dark ages started for the rewarded sizes, right? That's when uh everybody was like, "Oh, rewarded instant." It was back then it

was called instant. We're not supposed to say those words anymore.
It's a no no word. Yeah. Yeah.
It's a no no word. We're not allowed to say that any rewarded, but back then it was still incense. And um the incense side really was uh was really blacklisted eventually. It was really a tactic that most of the the way demand partners didn't want to utilize because it didn't have any benefit anymore because the stores didn't allow to grow your app and grow your user base by uh just sending uh installs because they didn't use as a signal anymore only to actually um rank you higher. So when that happened, the entire recorded space basically fell to nothing and also the monstation solutions fell to nothing.
And if if we're really honest here, right, like there was a lot of fraud of those installs. They weren't really sometimes real, right? Or what was really going on because you got boosted up the charge which gave you organics and that's how the whole thing worked then. So I guess it didn't need to be real users, right? Or
Yeah. need to be exactly cared what was happening, where those insults came from, how those insults came forward,

right? Nobody really cared that at the end of the line. The they did this boo boost campaign so that they can rank higher in the stores. That was their main reason really to do it. But you did have a lot of successful apps that were just rewarding users out just to download different games and not even play them, just download games and you get reward out of that. Um that was back in the day like 10 years ago. There was still a lot of apps that were there that you don't even see anymore now. But back then there was a lot of reward apps back then as well. So it was an interesting time to see the monstation solutions there. But you also had a lot of games with a pay wall next to it that had an offer wall from like hybrid source or fiber that really allowed them to monetize on those solutions and that was very very good for a lot of those games as well because instead of purchasing something you just download five games and you get your coins and you can go so crazy. Yeah. But yeah, that really started evolving into where KPI started becoming very important for a lot of demand partners, right? Oh no no no
guys came there and then suddenly just right.
So you had some brave souls in the

rewarded side that stayed there and were very hard-headed and that didn't want to didn't want to give up to it. So they they defined the new structure and that was the single reward do something action like a registration or a deposit or sign up for a subscription or something else. Um, and that really was a um, a big part of a lot of um, uh, CPA campaigns that still kept that industry really afloat. And that's where a lot of websites actually monetize their websites and a lot of other apps that monetize their pay walls by just like instead of doing a pay solution, just do this subscription on Hulu and hey, you get a free subscription with us as well. So that's really where that that industry from just the install came and then it it grew to that single reward uh uh um solution right and that eventually that evolved into single reward for games right but then the quality was not so good and then eventually the partners started the developing multi-reward and multi-reward is something that that's

where it was stuck for I think a good solid four five six years until misplay came around
I think that was really the first rewarded partner that actually did something innovative.
Can you just explain multi-reward just so people understand?
Yeah, so multi-reward is like you play to level 10, you play till level 50, you play to level 100, you play till level 200, level 500, right? You just keep leveling up and you get a little reward as you level up, right? So, and that was a very effective uh solution and that was uh for a lot of game companies that started becoming one of their UA channels and it became more effective, right? But it was still not really adopted as a mon search of mainly offer walls and some game companies actually hire offer solutions and that's really where and and that was the model where it really stuck for a long time right huge amount of time. Tap joy was a a big leader in that part right in in that area fiber as well and they built an iron source as well and then those were really the ones that did the multi-rewards really really well and that was mainly on gaming supply. So the gaming supply worked really well on that

side. So um yeah and as I said that's when the solution came into playtime right and the playtime solution that's the next really big innovation that happened and misplay was the first one really to make that happen right that was really the first app that was actually a playtime and that really showed the opportunity for what there is in terms of gaming and what games can actually do and what the returns can be on that side and that really broke up the world of monsation for the monsation solutions that are out there now right that's really where our monsation solution learned from them that they're the they're the grandfather. I'm not going to deny that, right? A lot of things that they did well as they do well, right? And they definitely showed a lot of good things. But that eventually that moved over to a solution SK solution now that
before we get there just what was the main difference with multi-reward and misplay just so our listeners get that right.
Yeah, good question. So what misplay really did is they started rewarding rewarding on playtime and rewarding on playtime but also personalizing the rewards to the user and they did that on

an app level right so it's a very important part not only play time is important but also the personalization for the users and so if there's more engaged they get higher rewards and they're less engaged they get lower rewards and they they've set up that process and they did that very well and they found built their system and their solution really well to get that organized well enough so that it actually generates good ROI for clients So iteration one level based, iteration two misplaced. I guess the grandfathers as you call them timer based. Yeah.
Right. Okay.
Exactly. Um and then the but that was really on the app level, right? So there was no really monstation solution, right? It was like just misplay, right? They had their app and that was it, right? But that gave birth to really like oh okay there's a lot of opportunities in the rewarder base and that's really where the SDK started evolving into and that is really where the SDK landscape is right now and the monsation landscape is right now is on offer walls that are able to personalize their rewards and play pay out personalized rewards to

users based on the quality that they provide so that they can meet the right quality KPIs for the demand partners and also monetize their users as effectively as possible And that is really where the rewarded space is right now. And that's really where it will keep growing more and more and more out from and it really be more of a datadriven solutions, right? Whereas in the beginning you had a single offer, there wasn't really any adaptability on that offer, right? You just had a single reward. Do this, you get a reward, right? It didn't matter if you were a female or a male or age this or that. It didn't matter. It was always the same reward. And then you had the the offer wall, the multi-reward that basically had the same process but then more rewards. So it was easier for the user to actually achieve it. And then the first personalization came in from misplay and that then is what laid the foundwork of okay, hey wait in reward space if you really personalize rewards and you really can personalize that for every individual user which will result into good results for the client but also monetize well at the same time. That is the golden area and that is

really where data has become the main part of how monetization solutions will now dominate further in the reward space. So it's the smart monetization solutions that will now dominate and that will now actually be able to provide good value for both the monation partner but also the demand partner because without that balance of of keeping the demand partner and the monetization partner happy at the same time, you're not going to monetize well because nobody wants to promote on you. And if you cannot monetize well, you're not going to get enough users to actually monetize and get enough revenue out of that, right? And that's really where the data will come in. And that's really where the monetization solutions are now. It's a much more datadriven personalized solutions that you see as offer walls um and SDKs that really monetize well. And that's basically where the history is right now. There's a little bit of the recap of what it is. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So basic. Okay. So level based, timer based, grandfathers are timer based. So how does adjo fit into this? Right. because I guess they're the would they be the daddy then?
But did they was there also like play playtime kind of oriented as well now?

So the agile guys really they did very good um and they learned a lot from misplay solution right so they looked at the misplay solution and saw hey you know that looks really good right and why don't we make that into an SDK
right and they were the first ones really to to jump in on that
and build on that side but their main main model was really on playtime and mainly focus on playtime for the large part of their solution so it worked really well on IA based games and more hybrid games right um but their their solution was really built from from the misplay solution from what I can see right I can't can't say for 100% sure like if you look at like how misplay works and then how agile works you could put some kind of connection
there are some sim similarities yeah yeah
um yeah they were actually the first SDK solution that was implementing playtime yeah so they they are definitely in that part right and they
good I don't have to ask then who's your daddy so good we covered that already
so that's basically like the the history guys of the reward space right and that's really where the reward space is

how it's it's really a heavily personalized reward experience for every user and the more personalized you make it and the more you can adjust for on a user level the rewards the better the monation solution will work because you can target based on using data right instead of just showing the user every single offer wall the same offer wall across the board and
so yeah
if I can ask a question here so from both an advertiser perspective and a publisher perspective what is currently wrong with the solutions that exist on the market Yeah. So, a lot of the solutions that are on the market currently are still following the historical model with the multi awards and um they're using that as their main foundation. But as the users, you're going to have some users that are whales, right? We know that in the terms of of UA, right? You're going to have some users that are going to be dolphins, right? The small purchasers that uh do a $1 or $2 or $5 purchase, right? And you want to make sure that you can maximize the whales

possibilities and you want to make sure that you maximize the dolphins possibilities, right? And using personalized rewards to engage those users, right? And engage those users to the maximum that you can. That's really where the market is going and that is really what's going to make the difference between a lot of the awarded solutions that are out there. A lot of them, they don't have those capabilities of personalizing and segmenting their user base in an effective way to actually use that to target that and and show that correctly. So you have a lot of players right now that are out there, right? A lot of money that's coming in from VCs and that's really stimulating that a lot right now and and pushing the the market very heavily into a territory that is heavily growth oriented but not really profitability oriented.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course,
it's an industry that right now is being subsidized, right? It's a subsidized industry. So the the solutions really that you see a lot of out out there right now, right? a lot of them are actually not running profitably from what I can see from what my I can see from my side. So the the solution that is going to be actually work well right

it's going to be profitable for both the demand partner and profitable for the monation partner and for the company at the same time and that's the the balancing act that's going to be working out right now.
Yeah. So, I guess that explains why some publishers I've worked with, they've gotten some offers from companies in the space uh to integrate their offer wall in their games. The sums that have been thrown around are kind of staggering or eye watering is like Yeah. What's going on there? Cuz it doesn't seem like a sustainable.
Yeah. So, there's a lot of integration bonuses going on on at this moment, right? So,
this is just a good old mediation fight again like uh it was a couple of years ago.
Yeah. this new.
Yeah. So really there's a lot of numbers being thrown around, right? Trying to get integrated with publishers, right? Trying to get them integrated with their SDK and doing exclusivity on that side, right? And then giving there's different solutions that are being thrown around like revenue guarantees, integration bonuses, scale bonuses, right? You you hear I don't I've heard so many different deal structures now that I'm

like, okay, what what is actually the most effective one? But yeah, I have a lot of different partners that are out there right now. They're throwing all kinds of different solutions out there and different amounts out there, right?
It's fun to be an admon consultant again. I can tell you that.
Yeah. So, yeah, but there's there's different structures really, but in the monation solutions that are out there now, right? It is very interesting to really be able to understand what is actually a good monsation solution and what is not a good monation solution, right? Like if you if you look at it from a moniation point of view, right? You have no way to really know, hey, is one solution good or is one solution bad? Even if they give you let's say an integration bonus or a revenue guarantee, right? If your users are used to a certain offer wall, right? What like it's not like it's like like switching a rewarded video ad. Yeah. If you have a rewarded video ad, like if you have one video or another video, right? We all see the same video ads across the board now. But an offer wall is a more personalized experience. It really is an is a something that the user gets used to. It's a user behavior,

right? If you make some changes from one month to the other month to the other month or the other month because you have integration bonuses, right? It might impact retention, right? It might impact performance, right? So choosing a good mon solution is actually extremely important because it's not just a rewarded video ad. It's not as I can switch from AppLoven to Unity Play and then actually get a diff get the same rewarded video ads and about the same experience. It's a very different experience as well for users. So, how do you actually choose different?
What should I what should I do then? I mean, how what kind of questions should I ask?
He knows list what to look for as a publisher.
Yeah, that's fine. That's good. We can we can we can definitely go into that that list. I would love to hear.
So, to be straightforward in terms of a rewarded partner, it's like the rewarded partners that are out there that are there uh at the moment, right? It's really engagement is a huge aspect of these monstation solutions of how well they can potentially engage the user base because that will have a direct impact on your retention and your overall profit. Right? So a good

monstation solution, a good offer will will allow you to be able to get much higher retention from your users that might churn because they don't want to purchase and they get stuck. Um so what is an engaging offer wall? really an an offer wall that is engaging is one that actually has rewards that are nice and easy for the user to get and not too difficult and doesn't look like a hurdle to get those rewards. It's actually more gified, is more of an experience that actually makes the user feel like, okay, this is just part of the game, right? It's just a little bit different game, but that's part of okay, I'm also incentivized as the different things to engage me and actually uh can engage the user to keep engaging with that offer, but also with the app that they're on. Right? Now that's a little bit vague, right? So what does that mean?
What am I actually saying? Right? Just gibberish or I actually have something to say here. So the main thing really is like if you look at games, what makes games engaging, right? It's the setup that they have is is live ops, right? Is how can they engage user? What are the

biggest game publishers out there that have the most success engaging their users effectively is solutions that have good live ops environments and good live ops setups, right? deals, things that they can do like a current tournament or something else that really engages the users to keep playing. Those are things that can bring your users back. It's new content, new things that they can actually see. Those are things that will actually keep your users engaged, right? So, an offerable solution that has a good live ops environment that can offer deals that can engage users and can help you engage the users and activate the users is an extremely important aspect of a good monstation solution. And without that,
basically what you're saying is like you need to have an like for example when Arbor Day comes along, you need to have an Arbor Day event that basically does a pop-up from the offer wall. Is that kind of what you mean or Yeah.
But also like why even if you have a pop-up from the offer wall, what is an incentive for the user just to activate something or play something or start something, right? What is the what can you do to really engage the users that can differentiate you from other games

that might not be giving certain specific rewards on particular days like Fourth of July or something else. So a live ops environment is extremely important because you can engage the right users the right time and you can push the users to engage and and give a a special offer that you might not be able to do with rewarded video ads. And at particular days where the user has more time and more activity that they can do certain things that's the moment where you want to maximize your monation right the weekends or in the night times or the different times where the user has more opportunities to actually do certain things right and has the time to actually engage with an offer wall that would one bring the quality for the client for the demand partner that wants to promote and gets ROI from it but also at the same time would engage the user so that they monetize enough so that the monsters actually generates enough revenue for the the partner monetizing with So live ops is one of the most important things to look for when you're evaluating an SDK partner, right? An SDK partner that doesn't have a good live ops environment and doesn't have an

environment that can actually engage the user outside of just the general offer wall. Just ask yourself, right? There's so many different offer walls. Why would I engage with this offer wall compared to that offer wall, right? Unless there's like some kind of special reward or something else that can really engage the user to get back and and play on those offer walls, right? If that makes sense. Yeah, I mean it makes sense, but I think most offer walls offer this live ops stuff.
It would surprise you.
Okay,
not a lot of them actually have a lot of very huge amount of live ops opportunities. They might have a currency sale or something like that, right? So, a currency sale was a very traditional way of engaging users, right? But what about engaging users to download a game for the day or do a tournament, right? Or make a purchase on any of the games and get a small reward. different things that can actually stimulate the behavior of the user that would one benefit the monsation solution partner by generating immediate results by them doing events but also generate higher quality for the for the for the client so that they can bid at more aggressively on that same placement and you'll be surprised there's a lot of SDK

solutions and offer wall solutions that do not have a very detailed or very personalized engagement solution
live ops okay
what what else
yeah we did a lot of offer wall with east side games when I was the admon manager there and it's very spiky like the the revenue right and it's always when you have an event and that's when you find out events that you never really heard of like Arbor Day.
Yeah. Yeah.
But it works you know
it does work. Yeah, that works well. The goal is that if you can really personalize this on the user level and say okay these users are the ones that we will really want to engage because those are the ones that maximize the results for you as a monstation solution but also the demand partner so that they can bid more aggressively. That's really where the personalization works on the live ops environment because those live ops environments are generally just for particular days, right? So fourth of July event or harbor day, right? That the one that you mentioned. But if you can personalize this on users and actually segment this on individual users and only do it on the person on those individual users only and activate

them at the same time by push notifications, inapp messaging and other things that are all managed by a monetization solution. That is really where I see the difference between a a traditional offer wall and one that is actually able to help you maximize the results out of it.
Now we talking about Android only or now finally on iOS as well.
Android and iOS. So iOS recently they became a lot more laxed a lot more easygoing with it. The iOS apps cannot primarily be an offer wall but they can have some kind of offer solutions in it. Yes. A lot of games that are actually approved we also have our own iOS app is that rewards app with shopping and other aspects in it as well. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. But the second thing I would say is really, really important and that is something that I've heard a lot from a lot of different monation partners is really the transparency that a monsation solution can give you. And you mentioned it yourself, Felix. You said there was like spikes, right? And you're like figured out, oh, that's maybe Arbor Day, right? But maybe you have also experienced drops, right? that

one day your performance one week is really good and the next week it's down by 20 or 30%. What is actually happened there? What is actually
usually that's usually when the partners when like we need to target more of your payers.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's where the obliqueness and the the fakeness starts and you'll be like okay well okay maybe let's target more of the payers now. Okay. All right. Um but the what we've seen a lot with a lot of our partners right is that they don't really have the tools to really optimize their offer wall. they have maybe a specific cohort that they can set, okay, I'm going to segment my payers and my non-payers, right? Or I don't going to do a currency cell. Really, that's where it stays off and stops. A good monstation solution is something that can integrate with your UA and actually allow you to optimize the journey of of the offer wall based on the sources that you're buying from. Meaning, if you're buying traffic from Apploven, for example, right?
Or you're buying obviously traffic from Unity or from Google, right? These users have different user behavior, right? But

they all see the same offer wall currently if you're using a traditional offer wall provider. But what if you can actually show different user journeys based on the UA channels that they're coming from? What if you can actually show to the users from Google a different solution that would actually maximize the earnings from your Google campaigns?
Yeah, that that's what I would like to do. Definitely. Yeah, you want to make sure that the the campaigns that you're having and the UA that you're doing, right, that you're not if you're starting new UA channels, right, that that might not that that doesn't hurt overall earnings as an offer. Let's say you're starting a new traffic source, right? And this traffic source is horrible quality, right? But it looks really good from an offer solution because you're getting a lot of revenue, but the quality is really bad for the demand part, right? What is going to happen for your mon suddenly going to get a drop of uh quality and you're going to get campaigns passed. That's where you're going to get the 20 30% drop and that's when the offer wall solution is going to tell you, hey, we need to target more payers because they don't actually know where the traffic is coming from. They don't really know if the Google traffic or the apploven

traffic or the other traffic source are actually the ones that are providing them the quality that will actually benefit um the modation solution,
right? Like let's say you knew that ad row campaigns from like these group of users came from a Google ad row campaign and these came from an AP purchase campaign from Apploven. How would you ideally or how would they different for those different users or group of users?
So let's say you have a two different solutions, right? You're you're buying let's say on the UA perspective. Let's let's put it from a perspective. You have like different campaigns running on Google, right? One is optimized for IIA, one is optimized for AP, right? You're you're targeting you're trying to use their algorithm to target different user segments, right? And those different user segments have different behaviors because that's why you're targeting them on that behavior. But they're also going to have different behavior on the offer wall itself because one is more focused on AP, one is more focused on IIA and one generates more results based on that particular campaign. So basically you have different behaviors from those users and if you have one user group

that has a bad behavior that can pull down the entire monstation solution by affecting the other segments that actually perform really well on the offer one. So, let's say you have a campaign that's only focused on installs and those users, they come into the offer wall, they just download something and they don't do anything else. That's going to be very bad performance. It looks good, right? Because maybe you're being paid out on the install. So, your ROI is going to look good, but the quality is actually very bad. And what the result is is that you as a placement, you as an offer wall, as as a as a source, let's say you have a game, the entire offer wall gets affected, not just the individual source that gets affected.
Sure. But what's the difference on the offer wall side then? How would you kind of differentiate the the offer wall between like that those segments because of course like we we like like the Felix as like we have the campaign for Adas on a Google which is one segment then there's another segment which is IIP appla and that's like huge quality difference what would the adas offer wall look like or the solution look like and what would the applian campaign

solution look like?
Cool. So the perfect monetization solution is one that can use that data and show different games that actually perform really well for that particular source automatic
casual versus RPG for example.
Okay, if
you have an IIA based game on UA and you're optimizing for UA for IIA, right? And that works really well for IIA games on the offer wall, then you want to show more IIA games so that you maximize the users maximize.
Okay. So that's the difference. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And if you have a UA channel that is optimized towards AP and those users are AP purchasing users and they suddenly want to play a game on the offer wall instead of making a purchase, right? You want to show them more AP based games because that will probably perform better, right?
Okay. So yeah, and if you if you don't have the segmentation and you're buying from all these sources and then you show the offer wall which is focused on IA games to the IIP roaslavin campaign, it's going to absolutely suck. It's going to be very damaging. Okay. Okay. And what's going to happen is on the

Monation side, right, you're going to have suddenly have a drop of revenue and you don't know where this is coming from. And because also the partners and the Monation partners, they're not very they don't really want to showcase the data like, hey, this campaign got paused, that's why performance is going lower, right? And a good Monsation solution is really your partner. It's really someone that, hey, you know, I saw my revenue drop by 20 or 30%. What's really going on? Can you look in it from your side? And it can give you answers and tell you like, yeah, we saw a new source that you activated, right? it's this source and they're bringing really really low performance right I would suggest not to show these games to the off wall not to these sources so it doesn't affect your overall monetization solutions and it doesn't affect the overall monetization impact that the good sources are having and that's very important because uh we've talked with many different game partners and different offer warall solutions right and they have they have sometimes very good months one two three months good months and suddenly they have 20 30 40 50% drop in revenue and then they're like where is it coming from and if you don't have answers is how can you fix it? Right? If you're never going to get

an answer of where the results are bad or where the what channel is actually causing that, um there's no way to really fix that and get out of that, right? So that's an important second point. So third and final really is the personalization of the off wall and really engaging the user in the offer itself. Right? So we have the live ops environment to engage the users, get them activated, right? we have the media source data that it can be used to optimize on and really make sure that it doesn't impact your overall performance. And the third part is really the personalization where you can gify the experience for the users um by when they are more engaged with offers on the offer wall that they get higher rewards automatically. And it's not a general offer wall that you have level 10, level 50, level 100, level 200, level 500 that everybody has the same reward. No, you want to offer the users that are going to bring more value for the client higher rewards and more engaging rewards and maybe leveling systems or anything else to actually engage the users to maximize their engagement with the offer

wall so that then the advertiser will be more comfortable with bidding more aggressively and monetizing also better. So the the hyperpersonalization of the offer wall is an extremely important part right how to personalize the rewards for every user that comes onto the offer wall. How do you how does that moniation solution do that? Right? And if you have good answers on these points that gives you all the tools really to maximize the possibilities with of a monation partner and a monation solution. So those are really the three points that I would say that are very important for any monation solution to have at this time and at this moment in the
Can I add one?
Yeah, sure. Good.
Four, aesthetics. Some of these offer walls look like absolute Man, it looks like from like Windows 95.
Yeah. Yeah. 95.
But Dino, then uh what are your answers to all of these questions? The answers from your
million dollar question.
Let's do the OM.
Oh, yeah. Good, good, good question.

Yeah. So, on our solution, we actually launched our version three of our SDK. And this is something that um if I look a little bit at the history of our SDK version, right? Version one was a single reward solution that we had. Version two is where we had multi-rewards and playtime integrated. And version three is where we have built hyperpersonalization for every individual user. live ops implementation and then also the implementation of being able to send us all the data that you have media source data and allowing to customize every single journey that you have engage users from different sources media sources all from our live ops environment all from that solution within one month solution right so we basically built
how does that work like from the like do getting the data from are you communicating with the the MMP SDK or like directly from the game or like how does that
kind of data when you start off the offer wall, right? You can actually send us that data. It usually comes directly from the device. You just send it straight towards us.

Okay.
We actually receive it and we can personalize the offer wall all the way to the creative level. So, let's say you're promoting on five or 10 different creatives, right? And one is focused on social casino, one is focused on like strategy games or anything else. We can personalize it on the creative level. So we can see based on the data and the more data you provide us you can see the channel level you can see if it's incentivized traffic or not and all that data we can use and that will be fed into our machine learning system that basically recommends based on those on those media sources. Yeah,
personalized offer feeds.
Nice.
So if you get app loving traffic, if you buy from Unity or you buy from Google, everything is personalized to the dot that maximizes based on the quality for the client and that's automatically done. There's nothing that you have to do manually, right? Because who wants to do manual things in 2025?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody. Nobody.
And so yeah, it's all personalized based on that data. So the more data that we get, we actually are able to um blacklist or white list on that manually, but we focus more on the

actual setup of of personalizing this with machine learning. So um yeah, that's a huge aspect for us for what we think is very very important.
I'm only waiting when you say AI and we are done.
I mean machine learning,
you need to say AI for the investors, you know, otherwise you're not going to get any investment.
Yeah, that's that's AI everything. Even the the creators were designed by AI. [Laughter] Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's really where on our side what we took about a year time to really look at all the feedback that we got from our clients and our clients have been amazing being able to give us a lot of feedback in terms of what they think of the rewarded space. One of the m major problems that we saw from a lot of our clients was that long-term progression was not good and a lot of clients were complaining like okay hey is this the second uh second dark ages coming for the rewarded space or is there actually a new opportunity coming where a lot of a lot of growth can be happening and that's where I see the solution that we've built to be able to allow personalizing those rewards engaging them with live ops and

customizing the the journey with our media source data as a solution to be able to customize everything to the dot and and powering that with machine learning to actually make that happen impossible because doing that manually would be impossible.
No, right. It's all Yeah.
So, this is the fourth generation then of rewarded, would you say, or is it fifth or fourth? Fourth.
Maybe one day I'll be the grandfather.
Yeah. Yeah.
What What does this look like? Do you have any examples? Cuz big words. I'd love to see what it actually looks like.
Show an example.
Of course.
So, let me love examples and we love uh visual stuff on on our podcast. So, yeah. If you have anything to show, please do.
So, I shared a quick few slides, not to make it too too long. Our slides normally like 20 or 30 slides. So, I did a little bit easier. Let me see my my screen if I can share this. One second, guys.
Don't worry, I will cut it out. Nice. Yeah. Okay,
let me see.
It's blue.
Yep. Yeah, we can see it. Yes, we can see. Awesome.
On uh So, basically what we have here is

the uh update. So, we actually took a lot of time to update uh everything from scratch, but also make it possible that we can make very quick updates and new feature releases without actually having to update the SDK. So, it's a one-time integration and you integrate it and everything will be available and also all new features will be available for you right away. You don't have to invest more tech resources to actually update it. And that's something that was very important for us because we saw that integrating an SDK is one thing, but then you also have to update it sometimes when it gets updates, right? And we want to remove that step alto together. So we took more time so that everything actually can just be updated integrated once and you never have to update it again. And we basically have the design. This can be fully customized right to your look and feel. So you have the the header. If you want to make that blue, if you want to make that black or you want to make that light blue, you can change that. You can change the premium colors that we have. Um and you can change the the button colors. So basically a majority of the colors you can make towards your local brand and really brand it for yourself. And we

highlighted this premium section which is really the games that we want to have the users to focus on. And we have different opportunities that we actually have that you can integrate as thumbnails that you can actually integrate into your app in different locations like a top five offer list or something else to engage the users. And basically this is what our old offer wall looked like. So it was really really ugly offer wall.
Come on. I've seen I've seen way worse. Like this is this looks this looks good.
Ah thank you.
They're worse ones. they're less you're less critical than me.
So yeah, we actually updated this from version two to version three. Um with that we basically made these updates and one of the main parts is really the live ops environment that we implemented. So as I highlighted um is is something that we uh spent a lot of time on on our side is that we can actually reward the user at any time at any coord day with any at any moment of the user's engagement. So let's say they installed today or three months ago. I can still make limited time offers to keep the users engaged.

This is really this is really cool. This is really good.
So basically just to clarify like you like I have a game XYZ game and then I install this offer wall and this is essentially what the users see if they click on the offer wall.
Yeah. Basically if they activate the game, right, this is basically the first thing that they will see on their site and and we can actually engage them with these hot deals, right? And these hot deals are basically rewards that are outside the normal reward structure that you have, right? You have the normal multi-reward structure and playtime. But these are like hot deals that we can use to engage those users at any time, right? So let's say we see that the user is churning, we can automatically engage those users with our limited time offer solution and get them back into the offer wall and back into the game and actually engage those users, right? So let's say you have quality issue or something else that's happening, right? Instead of the monstation solution coming to you, hey, we need to target more purchasing users. We can do that from our solution and we can engage those users for you and help you out to actually engage them and activate them with limited time offer like download the game, open the game a little bit and

play maybe to level 10 or make a small purchase and that can be done from our solution fully uh built in. So you don't actually have to do that from your side. We can even send the push notifications, the inapp messaging, that can all be done from the reward solution itself. So this is a um important feature. This took a long time just to be able to give that versatility in there. Um and we see a lot of good results already with this. So since we've been launching it and we've been testing this out, especially with early KPIs for our UA partners, we're seeing like a three or four times increase in early KPIs, but also on longerterm engagement. We're also able to get those users back and engage for those longerterm cohorts, which we know is important from the UA side. And then this is basically the active offer section, right? So this is basically how it used to look, right? And what we try to do is we really try to make it into more of a storage format. So we have the hot deal section, right? That's the the live ops environment. But this is really the area that we can use to where the user will see all of their active tasks, their daily rewards, see their overall earnings that they have and basically see everything that they need to do so

that they can actually progress into the game. And we wanted to make it very clear like if there's some task that is uh um getting to the next time limit, right? you can see, hey, complete this within this time frame so that you don't get user complaints, right? So, we wanted to make everything crystal clear from the user's perspective. Whereas in the past, it wasn't very clear. You didn't really know what campaigns were showing what or what was happening on that side. And we wanted to make that user experience just that much better and easy to navigate.
Spicy question.
How do you know this SDK 3.0 is going to perform better than 2.0? Have you done any tests or like a user feedback or anything? Because I mean it looks way better but will it convert better?
Yeah. So everything is AB testing with us. So everything we test out we do on our own rewards apps first.
Nice.
We tested everything and and and tried this out. It took us about a year to develop all of this, right? And why did it take us a year to develop all of this is really that we tested out a lot, right? This button here, making sure that this button actually shows correctly. We don't get user complaints

from this. Okay,
that's really we spend a lot of time just on making sure that hey is everything really clear for the user, right?
We know that if something is not clear on an offer wall, the first thing that the user is going to do is give you a onestar review, right?
Yeah. Like bye-bye, see you never see you.
We want to make sure everything is crystal clear. That was very important for us and that's why we took so much time to really try to make this as clear as possible and really test out if we have this design, how many support tickets do we get, right? It's not only does it monetize well,
but also that part. Yeah,
that was exactly the answer I was I was hoping to to get. So
that's amazing.
Yeah,
listeners dear listeners AB test everything. I mean this is very important. This is very important like this is also like datadriven decisions not like oh wait this looks better because I feel so no you need data.
Okay.
So I guess the next slide is going to say thousand eCPM in the states.
Well that's I think that's what most of the off walls say right?
Yeah. So I think all of them have the same message on their website, right?

With personalization, we can actually achieve higher than that. It's something that with the right personalization and showing the right campaigns to the right users at the right time, you can actually get much higher than that. So we've seen on our side with our own app about in the 2,000 range for our CPMs. That is something that we, you know, with personalization, this offer wall solution just gets better and better and better, right? Because you show only to the right users at the right time, right? So the chance that they're going to be that the advert is going to be happy a bit more is only going to increase on that side. So the next one is really the uh new offer details. So this is really what I highlighted on our side is really the personalization of the offers. Right? So what you can see here right now is that we have a leveling system that is built directly into our off wall solutions. And that leveling system basically allows us to reward users and and give them bonuses based on the individual user basis. Right? So let's say that individual user is playing the games more. they they actually get a level up and they get higher bonuses. So, it gifies the experience for the users so that they when they they do more things in the app, they purchase it, they make purchases, they're more active, they get

increased rewards from that and also level up. And what we focus on on our side is not only to be able to have this leveling system, but this leveling system can actually be dynamic for different users. So, we can actually show to one user one leveling system and to another user another leveling system. And what we try to do with that is we try to see what leveling system actually engages the users more to purchase more to be more active and to be more engaged and we do different segmentations of that and that gets not only AB tested it get like three four five times to 10 times different solutions tested at the same time so that we can actually see what's actually engaging the users more with what type of reward level and leveling system. So we can customize this on uh the the offer wall. Not only what the games that they see, but also what the offer structure will be and the reward structure will be. All these different things that are really hyper personalized in the offer wall itself that allow us to really tailor the the view to that particular user. And that's something that is very difficult but

super super cool, right? I it's super super cool to be able to do that.
And I guess like fundamentally, right, this looks really good, right? But right now, what would you say would be the main criteria for your game that you need to have for like Offerables to actually make sense as a monetization solution? Like you're not going to be working with Voodoo for like Yeah.
Yeah, that's a great question. So, the why is really the most important part of this. Why would I actually want to do
a Why would I actually want to try to get the reward? If there's there's no not a clear why from the user's perspective, it can look amazing, but the user is not going to do anything on it, right? So the incentive is super super important to be able to monetize correctly on it. Right. So if you have a hyperpersonalized IA based game, yeah, that of a hyper casual IA based game. What is the incentive for the user to actually engage with an offer wall? They can just watch a rewarded video ad and they're going to get their next level opportunity and and go fur further from there. It's not really going to monetize well. But for apps that are AP based or

hybrid, the incentive becomes larger because instead of purchasing something or playing or buying something, some users will just drop off. Now they can actually engage with the games and play those games and get their coins and their rewards on their game just by playing other games. And that's really where the monsation solution will have a big impact that the if you can if you have a a monsation stack that uh where the user is more incentivized to actually engage with an off walls so I based games or payw wall solutions or other thing then an off-wall solution like a monstation solution can work really really really well and that's where you can segment your users and say okay hey I don't want to send my wheels here I only want to send the the users the non-payers and maybe some dolphins right and try to maximize the value out of those because normally they don't purchase that much, right? Push those users to get the maximum out of their monation stack. So an AP based game or rewarded app, right, these kind of solutions work really really well with a monstation solution like this.
Nice. Okay. And then is there like a

requirement on the like the size of the DAS or MAUs or like it's doesn't really matter that much?
Yeah, of course. Like the more DAU the more happy I get, right?
I mean of Yeah. Yeah. But um no the it's really important if you're very small right I would say don't start with an off wall solution right from the get- go it's your AP based users are always going to be your your biggest uh um monation uh opportunity right so making sure that you monetize your IP based users and making that to near profitability or profitability from a UA perspective is going to be of course very very important this is a really an add-on to maximize your monation how I would see it. If you start with it, it's it's it might just be too it wouldn't be the best solution to start off with this, right? Especially on this beginning phase, unless you want to try it, right? Of course. But I think making your game work well for AP would be your first objective. And once you get that and then you want to maximize the earnings for a particular publisher, that's when

from your monetization stack, that's really where an offer wall comes in and fits perfectly into the mix.
So just so our listeners get an idea of perspective, right? What's the average revenue share of the clients that you work with that you contribute to their overall revenue? Is it 10%, 20%, 5%.
Um, so it really depends on the the genre. So what I mean on the category, so if it's a rewarded app, right, we have a quite a high uh percentage of that of course, but if you're looking at a game, right, it can range from 5% to to 30% of of the revenue. So um that's really where it depends how you engage the users really and how you can get the users to actually engage with an offerall solution and how much impact of that will have on in terms of percentage but yeah I can definitely have a good percentage impact of it.
Yeah. How can we implement it in into all the games that we manage? Should we just drop you an email?
Yeah, just drop me an email. Who's your daddy at?
Yeah. Who's your daddy at your ads? Right. The new grandfather, right?

New grand.
Yeah. New grandfather. Grandpappy. Grandpappy tier.
No, but that's basically you can always reach out towards me and I can connect you with my team. So my emails, you know, at tads.com on LinkedIn, you can also find me. I usually answer to all my LinkedIn messages, especially if there's opportunities on that side. So reaching out to me on LinkedIn or reaching me out on on my email or opportunities really to get the most to to to allow us to help you monetize your solutions and um yeah that's it.
Nice. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you very much Dino for coming again uh on the podcast. Dear listeners, you you heard it all. If you have any questions, please uh either reach out to Gino on LinkedIn or we'll put the email into the show notes also with uh some other links and also yeah questions comment sections. It's all for you guys. So, please ask there. Comment if you like it or not. Join the Slack channel and I think see you next time. Thank you very much.
See you next time, guys.

Thank you so much, man.
All right. Thank you, man.
Bye, guys.
Cheers. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]