Frozen City vs Whiteout Survival, ad monetisation potential, UA, creatives & GD review (#56)

[Music] welcome everyone uh this is no [ __ ] gaming late night show AKA podcast two and a half Gamers session number 56 we are sharing actionable insights dropping Knowledge from our day-to-day user acquisition game design and AD monetization jobs we're definitely not discussing latest industry news but we are having so much fun let's forget this is still 4:00 a.m. conference discussion Vibe so let's not take it too seriously welcome guys uh it actually is almost like 4:00 a.m. because we're filming so late today yeah yeah this is late night show because you know uh we are actually what Sunday night right so yeah now all the all the comments and and whining about my voice and and volume uh now it can be actually relevant so let's see let's see whates to me now what do you

mean whining everyone complains to you like they can't hear you and you just choose to ignore it's like no everyone's wrong they who are wrong yeah exactly exactly come on it's fine because because those comments are oh well you know I can't hear you in the in the in the commute in the in the bus like what the [ __ ] of course you can't it's like it's noisy Jesus nevertheless uh we have yeah you're right yeah everyone everyone is wrong exactly everyone else is wrong yeah that's how it works anyway so we have uh Felix the you know the pro ski skier braber yakob Negative Nancy R and then mate mate kumbai so it's all good yeah welcome guys uh how are you yeah welcome back from ski skiing trip Felix thank you actually uh back from the sanctuary I would say yeah of course uh yeah we didn't do a lot of prep because we played Diablo 4 with Mr yaku over here

so so Felix which character did you choose and what's your level uh since I've been skiing I haven't but you know Diablo 1 and two was you know my favorite shouts of the game so I will start with Necromancer or sorcerer when I get around to it but 100% probably Necromancer yeah so now the audience and listeners can actually guess who is the half gamer yeah exactly what I was goinging to say yeah I was skiing with real what do say yeah oh we were you know we were playing with the aqu also playing with real people exactly AR those not real yeah yeah yeah so Sanctuary was fine kov Shad as well everything is fine so um yeah well what should we what should discuss oh well first Istanbul uh we were all all there it was amazing uh we even had the private Round Table until until 5 5 a.m so these are the you know usually at the conferences we are the the ones that

are real for conference really pays off yeah yeah getting getting the vibe and the inspiration for for the podcasts uh and talking about inspiration actually kudos to to yesper Gustafson from cybo uh he pinged me on uh on slack on thef slack about Frozen City and the their newest game um white out survival uh and I started looking into things and oh man here we are so uh we're going to talk about Frozen City a little bit because well W out City W out survival doesn't have any ads so feelings would be very sad like we like when we discussed everol [ __ ] before except everol was actual [ __ ] this one this game is actually really good what look look at these these guys and all these uh you heard me yeah all these sorry there's no anime titties Remo yeah what what's just to wait just to wait just wait just to wait what's that was it written on your

T-shirt uh Mr that one you don't know what this is no I don't squid game a squid game okay but but I asked there probably something like what was the the the song she was saying when it was shooting people like green yellow or whatever or hold it closer hold it mic closer when I can't hear you yeah he can't hear you no no no no was WR there yeah so now everybody will be complaining about you and not speaking up properly so all right what else is is happening oh GDC so uh no GDC for us [ __ ] it yeah uh next year next year maybe who's the half gamer now yeah oh what do you mean we're creating bots you know like you have a kid and then he can play games for you when you're on GDC is easy yeah exactly exactly no well you know the the game developers conference is not happening for that but the game that conference is happening for both of us with the a don't worry it's one of the you know uh interesting uh

interesting posts that I I published last year so actually people are pinging me on linked like hey so let's be that but GD is like yeah I'm not there what do you mean okay never mind um okay so we're going to again discuss the Frozen City and white um white out survival but before we do that uh we have this Sentry games company who actually uh developed both of these games and they have way more games so who the [ __ ] are these guys so they have actually over 10 uh over thousand employees in eight different countries not not a small company uh so they're developer and publisher what what nothing nothing so the small company and what's really interesting is in 2020 they were making around 1 million a month and uh now last month in February 2022 it's already 21 million and we don't we don't see the ads there

based on the tools that we see because my guess is that they were making much more we just see because it's from China yes yeah yeah okay so lucky you got me as well to estimate the ads so yeah we'll get there yeah so a few of a few of these games uh so one of their oldest game is actually Family Farm Seaside uh they published that one in 2013 and now they um they actually publish new version in 2020 uh which well not new version but I would say 2. 2.0 Family Farm adventure and they have uh games like uh Valor Legends which I mentioned on the previous podcast uh we recorded about Frozen City now there is Dragon Scapes adventure and there's this funny uh funny group on Facebook where everybody is posting like weird and uh really cringy ads and uh guess what so I just checking Facebook and I saw a

dragon capes Adventure uh very weird ad which you can see here uh in the in the right corner obviously we have new we have new layout uh and then uh I was like hey well I definitely saw this game before so it ring rank B and I was like oh there you go Century Century games here we go again so these guys are doing some very interesting Shady crazy fake is ADS uh and doing some interesting stuff on the UA side but also on uh on the the game design and well we will get there I guess we will get there uh the king of fads is saying that it's Shady I'm really looking forward to this part whatever they doing they're definitely making it right in a way of making more Revenue yeah yeah yeah so they're definitely doing some some interesting uh interesting work but they're in Hong Kong right yes but I've I was looking

into their LinkedIn profiles and only 166 people is actually on LinkedIn the rest is somewhere uh and they have gu on the Chinese alternative yeah they have uh well there there were some Hong Kong some Singapore I guess but I also saw Kev I also saw some some US based people and something else so uh yeah I guess interesting think a very interesting uh company so I posted a a an article about Frozen City based on the the esper uh ideas and uh and chat and uh that post actually blew up on LinkedIn and even the the C of the company actually added me as a connection so now we are friends so I might ask him some very direct questions after the podcast let's see yeah that's going to be very very tough

yeah okay so how was the the admo isation look like should I just start should I just start with my little Adon part it's getting late you know it's almost 4:00 a.m. yeah yeah yeah we need to go to the sanctuary as well afterwards exactly so Century games have absolutely been busy busy Little Bees and they have taken Frozen City to the next level in terms of Da and if you're not a DI hard fan of our podcast or if your memory is not too good during session 48 I railed a bit on Frozen City's uh admon execution since they only had two ad placements uh when we did that episode Frozen city was making about 6K a day from ads and I assumed then that they had an imp Dow of about 3.3 with an ad view rate of about 75% so that meant at the time uh they were making about 10 to 15% of their revenue from ads from Frozen City so

both me and Negative Nancy Remo agreed that that is like way too low uh for a game that's structured like this and we even offered some advice uh for some ad placements that we both agreed on would make a lot of sense to add uh I think that we estimated that they could have easily doubled or tripled Revenue ad Revenue by adding these and plus we also then talked about how Reddit like fans on forums were begging to add more rewarded ad placement so it just seemed a bit like a no-brainer you know F fans are asking for you to earn more money maybe you know okay what the fans you know get what they want so that was um a little over a month ago uh so what has changed in a month so obviously Century games has massively scaled up UA and the DA has now increased by uh 189% so yeah also our favorite data tool tells me that in the last like uh what was it four weeks active user base of

4.2 million players split evenly 50/50 on IOS and Android uh first of all well done on the scaleup I'm sure ma will be talking a lot about this and giving you a lot of Kudos but on the admon front I am just absolutely [Laughter] heartbroken so yesterday which is why we're filming so late today I was stuck in traffic in France for seven hours and uh because of demonstrations and I played Frozen City for almost all of it to prepare for the show so thanks for the strike guys uh I really love missing flights and having to rebook last minute ones really fills my heart with joy so you know glad I got to be a part of that nice little French strike anyway anyway the reason the reason uh why my admon heart is broken

is that Frozen city has pulled back on their ad placements and they only had two to begin with so they basically show one of the ad placements a lot less so with a DA that is this large this just represents a massive lost Revenue opportunity so maybe Remo like so Frozen city has two ad placements maybe you can pull up the one that we can actually show so the first one is a common chest inside the store um just no double resource at plac yeah we'll get there don't worry don't worry I'll I'll rant the rent gets there as well okay so anyway you go in the shop you open there and you watch the first one and then you can get an ad to watch the second one and then there's the ad placement right and also on a timer uh the second ad placement that have in the game is a precious resource appears at the bottom of the screen uh but since the last update I've only seen this ad

placement like appear once every two days and before that used to like appear quite a lot more so they definitely like turned down the frequency of that so this leads me to think that the Imp Dow is no longer 3.3 like I said a month ago but closer to 1.5 probably an ad viewer rate of about 50 or 60% my God that's terrible yeah which means that like the the main RV placement is hidden in the store and not like everyone does click in there so yeah so right now with the current da uh I think frozen city is making about $35,000 a day or about a million month from ads currently which would be about 177% of overall Revenue coming from ads right now in Frozen City but you said it's 15% when when we talked it's a lot of big numbers man so like it's just because it goes up cuz it's now like they massively scaled up the da right so it's going to be more because it's just millions and before it was a couple hundreds of thousands of people right be easily like 5

million if they had like uh some more out placements with this da we're going to we're going to get here but like like let's be real here like no [ __ ] like if frozen City added three key ad placements which would be a welcomeback resource Gathering RV boost like when you come back and open the game which negative NY removal degree is quite easy to implement a main screen resource doubling for like x amount of time where you have to watch like maybe a cap of four ads where you actually double the resources for a time period and then maybe put it on a six- hour cooldown and a skip nighttime rewarded ad placements like these three ad placements would bring the Imp Dow to at least five which would mean like with the massive deu that Frozen city has that daily ad Revenue would go from 37,000 a day to $124,000 a day and here comes my face pal moment

because that would mean that these guys would be earning 3.7 million a month more in earnings which would be 41% of this game's I AP Revenue that means that Frozen city is currently leaving here comes a decimal place yes 2,616 50025 cents yes of Revenue a month on the table at these current d U levels like that's nearly 50% that's just being wasted and honestly like okay Remo I'm going to let you come in here in the end of this rant but like even a five imp down like for a game like this I would say it's quite low and it wouldn't surprise me if actually get this yeah if you can get this to eight so an imp out of 8.0 with an ad viewer rate of 70% that would mean that ad Revenue would be6 million a month which would be equal or greater to the current IAP

Revenue which was 5.4 Million last month and plus on ads there's no Google or Apple tax so like Remo please back me up here like yeah it's it's not a stretch right I guess I'm going to torpedo it a little bit uh so the thing is that they actually have double the ad placements only during the weekends because if we go here into the event which is pretty much the same city that just runs during the weekend we have a same separate store and the same hidden one that would pretty much go up here and offer me like whatever ALG or fish or whatever I need there so it's double than that but only during weekends and it's still like super hidden it's very hidden so but they have that but guys like it it's fair to say that like Century games adon's person either like doesn't exist or has absolutely no power but like the other thing I want to say is that is this all really a CPI ploy to just test

the CPI of the second game that we're missing here dude it's too much money to do that man like honestly if I was if I was going to give Frozen City like a score on their admon I would give him a like a letter score of B+ for Bad Plus terrible like the the only good thing is that they have seemed to updated their adup since the last episode like it do you know when they updated the app that's no no I just checked for the last updates of the last Unity lines which came out three weeks ago and they were in it now so they must have updated it quite recently yeah okay maybe they listen to the show yeah that's what yeah that's what I guess now they listen uh after the article but Remo come on like help me out here like yeah of course it's massively massively underutilized and like standardized and like whatever your first grade game design idle person would tell you like it's missing these three TI like Felix Bond hear it so of

course it's it's exactly like you said the thing that I'm still I'm I'm trying to figure it out like what what what has happened you know from December and like from all these they seeing like big amounts of Revenue coming in why they not optimizing it like you know blah blah blah so my guess is that after we get later to the white out survival I would still kind of guess that the whole thing is because they just don't care whereas the other game is just so much iip based true could it could be yeah it could be like if you don't have the knowledge in the comp if you don't have the knowledge in the company you really don't yeah there's there's literally like I didn't find anyone on LinkedIn like I mentioned like there's 1,000 people uh only 166 appears to be on LinkedIn and I through I went through all of them I didn't find any AD monetization person they have a lot of game designers and marketing people but zero out persons out people so I think uh yakob is right here because I was looking into the the

revenues of both games now the wi out survival is actually uh earning more money uh it will ear much more later on iips already after a month uh being out so it's 200k already which is it will be only earning on I yeah yeah so but yeah you know I can ask this their CEO uh since we are now now connected thanks the first this this is this is the case like I'm glad I gave him that letter rating and then he's going to see the show like this is the exact case of like too bad to be true in a way that like why don't they see the ad placements being so easy to implement and easy to improve I'm just like again like trying to kind understand like what's happening there so my guess if you have 4 million that da like that is so much ad Revenue you don't know man like the thing is like they can be making so much more revenue from China that we don't see that it could be Lally like like our friends used to say m nuts to them yeah yeah yeah yeah but

then I don't think it's it's going to be that much money uh from China for the idle game honestly but come on guys like like an eight imp now that would mean you know that this they're earning the same amount like 6 million a month like come on who wants to ignore that that that's that's not like that's money I I was uh I was it's totally possible don't get me wrong it's totally possible that this game is just losing atrocious amount of money because it doesn't want to proove that's it yeah so I would yeah I would assume uh H well it's thousand people so it's not like they they're out of resources so they're not moving everybody to the new game and nobody's working on on Frozen City anymore so I don't think it's matter of resources actually yeah all right well anyway like you know if white out survival would add you know the same kind of like placement so I have like 1.5 that would mean probably right now like they would be earning maybe 7 Grand A Day In AD

Revenue so that would be about 6% so it's not as interesting but you know if they're able to scale that up to five Impressions per du it's never going to that would be about like 700k a month if they would manag to do that but since they actually don't have any games uh any AD placements in that game like I don't want to even speculate like just I Le leave that up to Remo in his part no let's let's let's uh uh let's actually continue with like with this have you seen any Forex game with ads no exactly and now Mr yakob is going to tell us why uh yeah my guess is that the economy is so deep there like it's pretty much the Mariana Trench of economies there uh where it's so deep that you can literally spend 100 thousands and still be kind of uh you know spending more throughout your lifetime there because they have this very very special mechanical destruction of property which is that what you buy can be

literally destroyed there and you lost it permanently for instance your soldiers that you have trained for so much time when you get beaten up and they don't fit into your hospital and you just you are just not able to heal them up they are destroyed so that's it like imagine like you would buy something in Clash of Clans or whatever Clash Royale somewhere and then somebody would the game or whatever your opponent will take take it out from you so that that's what they have there this kind of destruction of property mechanism which is very very kind of money hungry and can be super money hungry yeah but REM I don't buy that because you can do the welcome back ad placement and have the resources when you're offline and that would still the resource resource FL works completely different Forex it's not based on idol generation that much it's it's like uh and the other thing is that you sell time as as items you have all of those like increase timer by 5 minutes 1 hour 12 hours whatever as items and you sell those so I guess they're just kind of completely

catered to to the whales that they don't really care about the ads because it's all like well driven games anyway because the alliances and the Clans that fight out on the map and you get out they are just driven by these like super high Spenders anyway so my guess is that so so your argument here would be like you don't even should put any serving Logic on rewarded placements and just like yeah leave it as is um this would actually barant like a good quality AB test the problem is that you really than you oh finally you cannot really AB test Nancy Remo C yes so much so much people on the server anyway so I don't know but my guess is if it would work somebody who have already done it so that's that's like kind of oh this well this is not a good good argument man that's not a good answer I'm sorry this is no bu that's not a good answer so so you're saying like all the games the forex's that they're making like 20 million a month they're all missing on like ludicrously high amount of AD Revenue

that's what you're saying they had the same like if they had the same serving logic like baked in and then basically like really knew when people are spending and not spending like yes I think they would be able to earn a lot more money from rewarded ads because they would have them in the first place if you've built a mobile game for iOS or Android you've experienced user turn you can win those users back but it's getting more and more expensive even more so to acquire totally new users enter cross promotion with adct by identifying your users likely to turn early you can showcase another game in your portfolio before they leave forever transforming a lost user into a new user increasing your revenues learn more now at ad dict.com all right R's over you want to get on to like praising these guys cuz you know what they have done on the UA side is actually quite impressive maybe uh maybe so so let me take you to the

Frozen LS of pure UA Excellence we will witness how UA score dude just wait we will witness how UA is not that at all for f for [ __ ] sakes and how things are done in the post idfl r no kumbai a [ __ ] but awesome job by their marketing team let me guide you through the amazing growth of the white out Survival how how about that about the the Epic intro because you were you were just starting ing these epic intros when we discussed Frozen City and I was going through that was quite good M I'm proud of you ah okay [ __ ] it uh let's uh let's start with soft laun actually uh they had very very very short soft line only two months from 5th of December to actually 12th of February and then uh well it's actually three months uh no actually it's more months it's June 28th the Android version I was checking that I couldn't find it

actually we found it on our other favorite data to other favorite data tool oh okay very good our favorite data tool okay because on my my other favorite data tool didn't have any any versions actually yeah so just for everybody Frozen CD was actually soft launch on December 21 24th 2021 and wi out survival was soft Lun on Android on June 28th 2022 okay that makes l well a lot more sense actually but they didn't do any UA actually uh at least from what I what I saw in those tolls yeah okay we are half blind that's uh yeah we're half blind that's the problem here unfortunately because I was checking the the Android version and uh it looked like uh they they had one week of tech soft Lounge in Thailand and Indonesia at least that's what I thought uh but there was no UA channs appearing in in these uh in these tools so I guess it was just like out

there uh and they added some some new countries on 13th of December just this uh Germany France Canada UK Australia Spain and New Zealand interestingly enough uh but I mean when I was actually thinking thinking about it wasn't interest that interesting at all it was just kind of logic the main Revenue drivers of the whole s Lund friend and Germany uh and if I think about it like yeah France and Germany are kind of still big countries in terms of revenues for strategy games and some other other genres anyway and then closely followed by Thailand that was kind of interesting uh then there was a little bit of spent uh appeared in Hong Kong but really really tiny so what I found out on iOS they were running only Google ads in December uh then they stopped the UA completely on iOS in January and then in Fe February restarted um UA on Facebook until Global

launch and uh more about the global La UA after uh a few more information uh now soft L Android Google Unity Facebook main spends happening on Google but closely followed by unity I bringing a little bit of Facebook here and there uh so I'm not surprised um uh well I'm not surprised about Google at all but I'm not sure if I missed something actually uh on Unity or I don't know like what the [ __ ] is happening but they are running or they were running Square videos on Unity as far as I know you can only run landscape and vertical format so either there is like a like beta in you on Unity which I'm not P of like hey guys can I can I get in unity hello I'm here so if if something is happening let me know I want to get in anyway game l on February 13 and currently making around 200k day which

we already mentioned it's NE to NE with frozen City and uh if we count that as well but um f city was launched in December so if we only look at iip revenues white have survival is already making more revenues per day uh than Frozen City in terms of the countries as you can see here on the in the in the corner where we also will show a lot of gameplay and we already did Show gameplay so it's Us South Korea uh Germany France again Taiwan Canada uh UK Japan Thailand and Indonesia so when we play Diablo with here Mr Mr remier during the weekend we actually discussed South Korea being on the top uh of the revenue spot uh but see it seems like us Won't Give Up give up that easily so uh that was interesting because Remo immediately told me like hey you know like what would you expect Forex in in

the Asia and the southeast Asia that's where the where the money comes from then I will start talking about the retention numbers in the UA part as well from now on so I'm going to um compare Frozen City with wide out survival because it's really important to mention these uh these type of numbers and what kind of numbers can actually all allow great scale which we we can see so because I'm I'm you know getting these questions like hey so this game is actually the same as our game how is it possible they earn 50k a day and we are only earning 5K a day well okay well let's look at the kpis oh maybe because your game is 30 35% day one ration they Day game has 60% they want retention what about day seven well you your is 11 and theirs is 30 and we can go on like 15% day ration whereas 2% ration well

guess guess why they're earning so much more money so uh how does it look like for um Frozen City versus wide out survival so we don't have long-term retention for white out survival yet but early metrics look even better than than Frozen City so Frozen City but for Frozen City day9 retention is 8% uh it's pretty good for idle game though it is well so uh so interesting but uh they won retention Frozen City 51% they won retention white out survival F 58% if you look at if you look at day seven Frozen City 22% day s 30% on white out survival even better then we have day 30 and day well day 90 is not there yet but day 30 is 10% according to uh our data tool on Frozen City 10% % and then white out Trav 9%

but I think that's going to be better um as we go because it's still like one month since the global launch it's not bad right no definitely know like if you remember the retention of other Forex games that short tactic it was like 14% day one yeah exactly I well how what could have been the difference yeah exactly uh how the how are they doing it well we will we'll know Felix question if UA is dead how have they gotten so many users on iOS exactly right man so the very quick answer they're running loads of spend on uplo and it seems to work quite well from the from the revenue they're getting uh like since the day one it's like just growing every [ __ ] day the same same thing is happening or was happening on Frozen

City seems like uh Century games uh you know they found a very good appli in US strategy so um it's their biggest Channel how much how much what how much are they spending a day hard to say this is always like my estimation and I I don't have the like fancy EXO as you have no decimals no deci no decimals unfortunately and 50 Cent yeah no decimals but honestly like they are running basically what appin Facebook iron Source Unity YouTube and Tik Tok so pretty much all the all the big channels uh right there uh but I'm I I think uh they're going to spend way more on on Google um afterwards and then on uh on Facebook maybe like frozen City because on Frozen City they running like 120 uh creatives so let me actually share uh uh how the creatives look like

uh because because we're upping our visual communication yeah yeah exactly one sec where do I have this here is the comparison actually uh nice I've seen a couple of these creative they're really good for those watching on YouTube you can see it right there yeah you can see it right there there you go so here we have a comparison I pretty sure you can't say say like which is the the white out survival and which is frozen City because they copied the Frozen City but now you you can actually see it because of the hand screens but it it's the same thing it's basically the same thing same um same logic then they have uh this one as well so they're using this I called it anatomy of great uh or well performing UAV video H they have the hook the the beginning using like one or first one or three seconds

to actually grab the attention then they have the the meat or the game play using some altered gameplay in in some cases in some cases real gameplay and then then you have the hand screen and that UFO one is so funny yeah it's it's it's great and then um then they are kind of using the the hyper casuals as um uh they're main source of inspiration oh the golden goblins one and golden goblins one as well there is for sure so and this is only beginning so uh I was also very disappointed when we talked about the creatives for Frozen City from the beginning but then I realized I was looking at the I did very well from the wrong perspective because I wasn't checking all the um all the channels and then I opened up the Facebook ads library and then bam 120 20 creatives so I can stop

this uh actually uh and now so there there's like more uh so what they are doing um using the best performing Frozen City videos uh like lot of attention grabbing uh the first two or three seconds they're hunting whales they're trying to survive well who would say that right a lot of other games play and Hyper mechanics as well and um yeah hunting Wells players as well and they have some gam playay with uh with choices elements I'm going to share these these creatives as well um do I get the right that there's no Forex G creatives not at have guess yeah not at all um but I didn't even uh actually understand like this is this is a Forex game uh for some reason yeah for some reason but I was I was

doing this uh this research uh for the article and U I checked different fan pages and even they have a Discord Channel B the white out survival there's like 70,000 people right there which is interesting and then I found this uh this description on their um what was it fan page on Facebook a Frink Forex game developed by Century games like oh really and then somebody didn't update the comment section description section description yeah yeah because well I I have I have a screenshot which I'm going to show show here as well only if I knew where where did I put that screenshot okay so now okay I'm getting there so because I was checking the ASO part as well and uh it started with uh H where is it oh I don't [ __ ] have it never mind I need to I need to find out so they mati used to be a maven and

now we can't even find a screenshot yeah exactly oh well the mighty have fallen the mighty have fallen no no I have it so so they their um short description was uh help survivors rebuild their lives and then uh they change it to Idol strategy survival experience all fre up Frozen wastelands and I mean they even start with this yeah so that was the so this is Idol in the description yeah this is Idol in the description had more ads man just don't it's not real ID yeah it's not the real Idol it's not the real Idol so uh yeah pretty much uh interesting case but now is the most interesting part okay so Now's the Time where you see ail PUO sitting in the room and revealing the killer exactly let's let's find out where this rapid hole ends it was negative Nancy all along

exactly yeah because of the great success of last time today we're going to actually share screen both games at once so we can cross compare them and figure out yeah oh very nice I'll hold that my closer remote this is going to be a good part yeah exactly so the thing is that but you only have 10 minutes yeah let's do it so before we pretty much went through Frozen City and thought this is nice idle game pretty Innovative took the frost punan concept did that did this didn't really take much time with the ads as Felix said here but yeah that's it but the thing is that a month goes by another game soft launches which is global launches which is pretty much looking like the same game so what's happening here uh by the looks of it uh yeah let me put on my furnace here it seems exactly like the same game does it yeah because yes yes per mentioned sorry yes per mentioned that like oh well this is the same game but with the higher quality visuals like

high quality visuals let's talk about that yeah I was like oh well it can't be just that easy and that that that simple like no way so Frozen CT for those who didn't listen it's an idol game taken from frostbank uh survival concept you tend around your survivors need to keep the flame going temperatures the main like one of the main Concepts they have this like life mechanic being hungry cold sleep blah blah blah work Cycles produce resources and then you move through the map on different Frozen cities and they added this kind of a combat mechanic into it where you battle stuff in like a animal War style hyper casual thing where you actually battling like elephants and tigers like you see here it's like yeah it's great it's the same thing as as in white out survival just different camera angle yeah yeah it's like the same thing yeah but uh so they have like AO battler in it but anyway it's still an idle game and it is an idol game and here you have like event which is pretty much the same C you would run like through memories of the survivors when they were still like

you know not frozen blah blah blah like Adventure commy style event is in is an ID game but now let's move to wa wait wait there is the the temperature element yeah is is is there it's there but okay I'll get to it okay now we have the white out survival which seems like the exact same game and for first 30 minutes plays exactly like the same game exactly exactly uh maybe people here are kind of more resistant to temperature because if you have- 44 degrees here but it was everyone else dies okay there yeah but it was so smooth it was so smooth I I I was super smooth like one of the things that gave out the Illusion for me was when I was going here into the mail and I was like vce and Alliance what is this thing doing here really hey man there some shady this is not a hyper casual yeah because as usual as usual this kind of bottom row of

buttons was hidden during that whole thing so you don't know anything and what's this world think oh it was not there def Alliance definitely not there yeah so uh later down the line as this game kind of unfolds suddenly when you were playing your idle game oh there's this world Buton so go here and go into world and then oh there's this balloon mechanic and you can like assault other stuff on the map these was so good these were so good I know it's smooth so smooth transition it was like oh let's launch this balloon on level seven furnace and it would turn into different game yeah exactly I was like oh and and now suddenly I was uh I was um training troops fighting a three hour three-hour Mission I'm like oh yeah yeah so if you if you see these things like if you see a map with all these bases with these like bubbles on those the protective Shields like you're looking at the Forex it's [ __ ] Forex don't don't don't tell how it is not it's a Forex so they hide it very very well I would

say kudos to whoever uh devised this like devious plan of pretty much like I still don't know if this is the real thing here that they pretty because we know that Frozen city was launch soft launch much sooner than the white out survival if actually somebody in the company went like oh so we have this idle game it's performing really really well why don't we duct tape it on top of our Forex game to lower the CPI and then have a money making machine for the Forex game and really don't care about ads and piece of Felix in the process yeah yeah of course but thing is H they I don't think they knew um how the CPI is going to look like in the in the soft Lune that much so I I I need to check I I couldn't find any um any creatives from the soft line but I will check that actually uh and uh make again like AO type of uh investigation detective work and investigation because this is really interesting like this is amazing like you have the you have the Frozen City

here you know with like the frost Punk template of like a circle within a furnace and then we have the white out survival with the same thing but if we zoom out enough oh voila was this hero hle marks Camp Arena infantry Camp what's this doing here infirmary really yeah and then suddenly it makes more money in like [ __ ] 30 days than their lunch in in December for FR City so this is again the pattern that we have been seeing for last few months again and again and again where pretty much we have this smooth transition of another game being built on top of another game which is becoming more of a standard these days I guess because I don't get this like how how how whoever pretty much did that like you're pretty much building two games into one so double the capacity production whatever you have there you need to build this kind of smoothness which these guys definitely build through this beautiful didn't even know if if I if I wasn't a gamer and uh I I didn't know like oh

well war and Alliance in the world means automatically Forex I wouldn't even notice like oh [ __ ] this this is Forex game exactly I wouldn't even know and for people for instance for people that didn't ever play Forex before yeah it seems like oh this this is like Idol games Idol games fighting on the map and spending hundreds of thousands against each other where are the ads yeah where are the ads that's the question yeah um there as are not there and the economy is deep as Mariana Trench as I said like you can see here there and by the way by Forex I mean the latest of the Forex like these guys are definitely taking iteration from Rise of Kingdoms from lth where you have the hero element there uh actually I really like it there that this is great I yeah in Frozen City I'm stuck there as hell as usual I'm pretty much super stuck because I cannot even like paying start paying I cannot level up my hero which would unlock another worker our like which means that I don't have food for the whole city and everybody's starving

and food just buy food watch an ad you can't I can't buy buy the chest [ __ ] sake yeah talking about so the stockness is out and you use these Heroes to F on the map you don't really care about the whole city anymore that much like you still have some kind of a mechanics here where you get like resources but even if you I like go here for inst let's upgrade something like you see here like let's upgrade a bed which like takes like 100 w.7 million wood beg the thing with Kingdom Rush where pretty much resources are pretty much inflated to the nothing that's exactly what what came into my mind like I can upgrade this like for eternity like all the [ __ ] because it's meaningless this whole thing is completely meaningless it's turned into nothing like and I I immediately uh remember like what were you saying about the the kingdom guard and their resources like you were getting some interesting resources from the the Tower Defense but it was like yeah it meant

nothing basically exactly so here we have by the way the also the game that the auto battler that slap on on it anyway but yeah why not I guess exactly why not because you're building now multiple games in in one game basically yeah but this is this is like super smooth transition man like we went from Hero Wars pulling playable creatives into and duct taping them into the funnel into like actually merging the like BAS map of idle game with a BX game it's so smooth like it's happening so quickly as well so good Chef yeah exactly so this is like a primary example of where the current market is driving like UA is driving the game design actually here of course like I I don't get this why why anybody would do that because in the old games like even rise of Kingdom let's take rise of Kingdom K didn't do anything of this like they just you know did a pretty good Forex game and they they pretty much own it and they're great and everything their base look more something like a Clash of Clans nowadays

not really the game of war thing but still like performs well so why didn't these guys do that because probably they were pushed by the latest UA environment so here we are and I guess this is becoming more of a norm or like the new cheesy trick that Studios will be kind of for cheesy trick it's Geniuses at all like it's what we have to do now geni this is not cheesy at all I I love it I really and this I think it's so exactly but do you see how the production requirements was raised So High by this Mo that you now need to build two games and smoo out the transition we need to we need to look into Fiona's Farm uh and also um one of their other games which was called what was it I had in here somewhere the the family family storm shoot no no no these Century games so the the family fire Adventure because that makes almost like 5 million plus uh per month yeah that's close to family Island I

guess we look into it a little bit Yeah I need to check yeah but for anybody the summary is here that we have pretty much two games that are starting exactly the same very very similar visuals very similar gameplay completely same funnel and then one turns into Forex the other one turns into Idol and Remo will agree with me now that that one needs more ads definitely it needs more you thank you but the thing is what they did with this Dragon capes Adventure uh I need to play that game as well but I'm pretty sure that they they duct taped this make project makeover game on top of the their Farm um SL Dragon whatever battler they have because the first four screenshots are just makeover uh screenshots and even the the weird weird ad fake ad was about makeover so I'm I think like they experimented with this in the past and now uh this is just another uh another level by the way this

this's one last thing I would say whoever did this balloon mechanic [ __ ] genius because this is exactly the conductor that pretty much teaches people that weren't into Forex into attacking stuff on the Forex map because if I click here it actually translates me to the Forex map so it's like a handholding feature for those that are coming wherever from and let's turn him into thinking it's an ID game yeah exactly and it's so smooth it's so good no yeah as soon as that balloon just went up I was like oh Jesus this is genius this genius should we finish on the that balloon yeah I think so yeah the I think so uh so yeah um all in all yeah we're pretty amazed like how how these things are are done these days and I we are preparing actually one article about the New Frontier of the game development and I think this definitely should this is one of this is one part for her yeah um

and hire an admon person really like God of course if you if you make 20 million or 21 million a month uh it can be like easy 10 plus on ads right yeah for for all all the games all the games so yeah uh thank you very much for for listening and also uh if you were listening uh to this on Spotify or apple or any other um well podcast uh tool just go to YouTube and check the check out the the game playay and all the all the graphs and and all the all the screenshots and Spotify as well no yeah true okay so Spotify is video as well but uh definitely keeps uh keep subscribing uh we love you and apparently you love us as well so uh let's let's keep this relationship let's go to bed now we're going to Sanctuary yeah we're going to Sanctuary yeah all right thank you very much cheers bye-bye right

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