🐷​🧶​ Unravel Master’s success explained: 25 key insights on modern Hybrid-Casual design

streak mechanic because that's been very popular in the puzzle genre. But here it's done uh I think very where you have this X-ray kind of a laser which enables you to see into the layers that you don't like see on the surface basically like a wall and then once you lose this trick you lose this mechanic. So yeah the question is how did you kind of get to this or what was the thought?
Yeah. So uh I'm really proud of this. This was like such a fun such a fun catch. So basically when we just started out rolling out this title, the competitors that we had were mostly screw games. We started out with not having the X-ray and we just had this talk at the office where I was just kind of wondering like why would they give this for free? It literally changes the game and is like a super booster type mechanic. Golden eyes Felix with ads making those coins rise. Jack up designs worlds chasing the sky. We're the two and a half gamers. The midnight crew talking

UA advers and game design too. Mat feeling shak bringing the insight. We're rocking those vibes till the early daylight. But hey master eyes on the prize tracking data through the cyerspace skies. Feeling stacks colors like a wizard in disguise. Jack crafter realms lift us to the high. Two and a half gamers talking smack. Slow hockey stick got your back. Ads are beautiful. Like the way. Click it fast. Don't delay. Uh-huh. Ah. Ah. Ah.
Hello everybody. Welcome to a special episode. And this is special because it's another live review. It's been a while since we done this. So here we go. My name is Mat Lancherich.
I'm Felix Robert.
And we are your hosts for today. And we have two special guests. Not only not one but two. Pas and David. Welcome to

the show. Could you introduce yourself to the audience?
Sure.
Ladies first.
Sure. So, I'm Paz. I'm the studio manager working alongside with uh IO, which is the studio creating the game that we're going to be talking about. So, I'm just kind of the directing the the contact with the studio.
Awesome. And the company you work with is
Oh, Supersonic. I should have mentioned that.
There. There you go. Yes.
One and only. There we go.
Uh, yeah, I work with Supersonic, who are a publisher or hybrid games.
And I'm David. I'm managing all the Supersonic publishing activity in APAC. And so if anything relating to China, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, you can ask me.
Nice.
That's great. We we just got back from Vietnam literally this week.
Yeah. Very interesting trip. Yeah. And what game are we reviewing today? We said it was a very special uh episode, right?
Yeah. We're doing Unravel Master. So

Yakob, can you show us the game?
Yep. It's going to be
I must say I didn't lose my whole life to the to the game because it is hard but I know how to play the game finally.
It is but since I know it's fine and I love you brought this to me and my attention. Thank you very much. This is a very special very special level for me.
Yeah, I saved the unicorn for you here. Uh
amazing.
Anyway, let's start just the basic rundown and I guess then then we'll get to the question more like a description start. So this is still part of the physics space genre pretty much. So something along the lines of uh screwdom or maybe like some some let's say dead lineage that's coming from the puzzles that are you pretty much taking things apart. That that's like one of the things there. Yeah. Very easy kind of a menu and very kind of usual start. So we

have the 3D space around to kind of hop in hop out. So that that's the first thing there. Then we have our usual bench mechanic. That's like one of the key things in in the category that's been I think iterated and perfected around like many many times. Like we had this tool boxes coming from left and right. Now we're I think the industry kind of settled on the motion that like yeah there shouldn't be coming around. It should be kind of more predictive and easier because even the puzzles that we see in this category lately, they are a lot more I would say easygoing on a first look even though they can get very very hard
on a first look.
On the first look there is there's there's infinite layers man like what you say is it's infinite layers
because it's very approachable but then it's you know pulls you in. So let's just say that. So again what we're doing it's a little bit of a onion layering. So we have the outer layers and we need to get rid of pretty much everything that's in the in the not the picture but the the object here. So we slowly

unravel the stuff here. And the important part as you saw there was the physics stuff. So gravity still applies and is pretty much part of the game play. But then we have our usual boosters that that's there like that's typical. But again, the main uh you know, the main part of the show or like what what's important here is that we have these slots of the yarns that are pretty much being taken out as we go. And again, we can have more slots if you pay off currency or watch a rewarded video, which I'm guessing is the key key component here. There's also a counter here, which uh again just tells you how many parts you're going in. So, some kind of progression bar and a little bit of like outside of core loop progression in the meta. I'll get to it as I finish the level. But again, that that's pretty much it. So, I guess we we can go over to the questions and actually get our stuff called here because as I said, there's many nuances and many specifics here that we talked last and this is not the first time we're reviewing a game in this category. So, my first question is

not the last one.
No, definitely not. So, it covered super well. First question would be and as we talked like before like this this looked kind of very approachable and easy to get into but the difficulty ramps up even much harder than than last time I'm going there. So yeah, how would you approach this or like how do you approach the balancing of the difficulty and you know the push for conversion and how to get there? Because as I'm going like the main thing that I see as for the conversion push is of course these two like additional yarns that you can unlock because at some point you get into this position. Let's imagine that that there's like white one and the violet one and I won't be any surfaces that I could pull. I I I'm literally like guessing around like, oh, maybe there's something under this that I can use that's like let me get rid and pull the into the bench and stuff like that. But at some point like you don't have any choice.
Yeah. Good. I thought this was going to be a question.
Yeah. Yeah. Just saying like how how I see it and then then then then we go.

Sorry.
So So guys like D like you need to really jump into the question as soon as Yakob because
otherwise we have no chance of speaking.
Yeah.
Okay. So the the challenge of the levels are actually what makes this a puzzle, right? Like if there wasn't a pressure point at some point, this would have been just like a tap mechanic that you are endlessly kind of unraveling something. This being a puzzle, we do introduce some uh difficulty inside the levels mostly like towards the end. Obviously, you do want to get inside the level first. So there are like pressure points obviously and you can get around them with several options. You can either use boosters if you want to kind of you know go around it. You can just do I assume we'll talk about this later but you can either use like luck based decisions right like you just unravel the correct one or like the lucky one that gives you the the uh color that you

want afterwards and you can I don't know open another box. like there are a lot of ways to unlock that uh difficulty, but essentially yeah, it's it's a puzzle game, so it has to have some pressure point.
Is it the same level of difficulty for everyone or does it get changed if someone loses a bunch of levels in a row?
That's a good question. Uh so we do uh uh we do personalize the difficulty level. Like a player that does very very well and is very skillful in this would after a set amount of levels would experience a specific skill like personalized to them. Uh and other way around of course.
So
very cool.
The shape of the object remains the same but the layout and the the layering.
Onion the onion onion.
The onion.
Yeah. Very cool.
It's different.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course it's there.
Yeah. Yeah. So I al also want to say that uh like in the recent years because the game comes from China in the recent years Chinese developers tend to make a

puzzle games very very early very very hard early on because it seems like it's a bit hard to actually make a zen puzzle like gradually like adding difficulty but it's much easier to add the difficulty right from start and just filter the players want to play this way. So in the last two years basically all the game puzzle games coming from China they are using this kind of super hard difficulty early on. It is changing now but it has been uh industry standard uh locally at the least.
I think that's a really good point actually because like David says this about China but this is actually very fitting for hybrid monetization because we do need to have like day zero monetization to allow us to actually have
a title right. So this kind of fits very well together and I think that goes very well for our collaboration with Eio like it just fits to the model that we're trying to create.
Yeah, exactly. Al also the origin is the the same because in China you you need

to ISBN number to use IP in the game and a lot of casual hybrid games they don't have to apply for that. So they have to use the hybrid mod they have to use the ad model. So they push like as conversion very very early. So that's kind of the the reason why they are doing it this way.
One very interesting mechanic and want to touch on maybe let's skip to this one now that we have it on the screen is the streak mechanic because that's been like very popular in the puzzle genre. Everybody kind of uses it let's say in match three these days where you would have like additional boosters being put on the board once you have this streak. But here it's done uh I think very unique where this is again done through a mechanism specific to the genre where you have this X-ray kind of a laser which enables you to see into the layers that you don't like see on the surface basically like a wall and then once you lose this thing you lose this mechanic. So yeah, the question is how did you kind of get to this or what was the thought because last time we talked about this on screw master this was

something that was actually omitted from the loop because in screw them it's there and again it changes the difficulty pretty dramatically on balancing side.
Yeah. So uh I'm really proud of this. This was like such a fun uh such a fun catch. So basically when we just started out rolling out this title the competitors that we have were mostly screw games. So screwdom is a very good example but obviously we have a school master as well
and we just had this conversation like at the office because we started out with not having the x-ray just like we did in school
and we just kind of played around like I always play like I don't a third of my day I play like the competitors and we just had this talk at the office where I was just kind of wondering like why would they give this for free? It literally changes the game and is like a super booster type mechanic. Why would they offer it for free? And then we just kind of had this idea of doing a streak where you get a prize where it

completely changes the game from almost luck based to like soft strategy which is much more you know um skillful I would say like it adds that layer to the game but you know let's monetize it. So obviously the psychology here is a loss aversion. So we're just giving something for you to to have. And usually most players get it on day zero unless they fail obviously. But like if you do come up with the streak and this entices you to pass those levels, you would get them near the end of day zero. And then basically just do whatever you can to not lose that ability.
So it must be a pretty big monetization point since it's not behind a rewarded ad then, right?
For sure. Yeah. Oh yeah,
it's actually uh it's actually such a strong we had tons of tests on this and it's such a strong point that we are already seeing competitors kind of copying this. So like a a total ego boost. It's very unique. I'm again I never seen

this before because again as I said lots of u like the philosophy and the paradigm is kind of the same where it's like if you keep your string you get more boosters but never done in this format because this is again like a very special mechanic just typical for this specific core not the usual puzzle core and stuff like that. So yeah that's that's perfect. Yeah, my other question would be as this is as I said uh pretty much a second or a different game from the category on your side. What would you say would be the biggest learning that you took from Screw Master and then apply to this game as you were kind of progressing within the genre?
So I think with this title we came uh with more knowledge and I think a bit more strategy early on like we already knew that we're directing this to a more in a purchase oriented title. So not just ARS and this was basically the decision behind you know removing the Alves from the main pressure point that we have which is the revive screen and this was essentially just a business decision right because you almost can't

maintain today a title with such a high CPI with a low output on day zero so this is just something that we thought about kind of addressing the the conversion of the title and this was a strategy from the very beginning like we had everything in mind before going into this instead of just kind of testing out and making decisions. We had a very clear strategy.
I want to say that uh like PS helped us a lot because in the first game school master we basically are bit conservative because that's kind of our first uh Chinese title and the monetization strategy is bit different and the result is pretty good. So I'm a bit free to change it totally but the path came and help introduce a lot of new ideas and they work out like extremely good. So I think here the team also our team like leveled up before that is also a bit like a smaller team working on one game but with unravel we really create a task

force with all the different roles and they can help the game from all angles and helping us to test like features that we couldn't test before. So everything leveled up in this in this game
watch that's there. Uh yeah, like I think you could really feel it and I think it's just like the current dynamic in the market that people are moving away even from the let's say the hybrid monetization and all the hybrids are kind of switching to either casual or midcore games whereas IP ad ratio is just moving in in favor of IPS at least that's what we see or like that that's my usual kind of setup even with clients that like help us make more IPS instead of at revenue. So yeah
revenue is getting squeezed.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely last one from my point until I get to the
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, but would you would you say because I think uh it was way when we talked about screw master, it was more like like 70%

inapp inapp ads versus 30% IIPS. Would it be like the other way around here?
So, it's like very much in favor.
Yeah. Blink ones if you if you agree or
it's not no
starting out we had a very high in a purchase share with this approach so a lot of conversion and then obviously like players are this is a very addicting mechanic so I have like you know my my upstairs neighbor plays this without knowing that I'm into it so we keep seeing like people really really sticking to this title And um so recurring purchases are something that helps us a lot with this share.
Okay.
But I think we are kind of trying to reach the 60 40 50/50 is still a hybrid title.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Allow players to kind of choose not to pay if they don't want to pay. If they don't want to be that type of player,

it's fine. We offer them another way out usually. But you would just have to kind of I don't know kind of decide which way you're playing because in the level itself you can choose to watch Albies and you can choose like to not get to the revive screen. But once you do it's just like it is what it is.
Yeah. Yeah.
Definitely.
So the next game it's going to be more IP. This is more like in the middle 5050 or 6040 and the next one you will go into the way that the mentions instead of going 50/50 just go more more towards IP. What do I know? It's just
so I actually so I came from uh casual gaming like before uh getting into hybrid I came from casual gaming. I have to say this is so much more rewarding like in casual you maybe convert the players somewhere around day seven and it's only like 2% 3% of players
maybe yeah maybe
maybe
like if you're a good title so I think this is so much more rewarding and we can actually see engagement with the

aries as a way to measure what players like and don't like. It's not just like giving them a reward for something. You know that they would choose to invest in something at least to invest their time. And you can literally see how players like to play and adjust accordingly. And this is like it's an amazing resource to understand player behavior. So I I love this uh type of hybridization.
I'm pretty sure UA team loves it as well. I do. I do. I do.
I'm just curious before moving on to to the admon questions. It's just so when you said that thing in the start about the difficulty, do you just look at how long it takes players to pass levels and decide difficulty based on that or the amount of fails?
The amount of fails.
Okay. Okay. Cool.
APS curve as it's called.
Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. Just finishing the feature set here as we went out of the level. So there's the let's say the soft progression mechanic of you getting points and anything actual let's say environment. Yeah. like as close as to

like a renovation mechanic as we can get because there's like again few shapes that that you can get here and I guess you continue but again it's very soft and most of the game is still concentrated heavily in the core so it's not not one of those like we have 20 different metag game layers it's more of again the core is the the king here okay yeah last one from my side it would be the UA question or like this is pretty much the topic and the theme of the last years now where UA is getting into product And it's getting more and more prominent than the product itself actually because the only thing that matters in the end is scaling the game through volumes of users which are extremely expensive and their CPI is extremely high and then games actually implement stuff into their product on boarding funnel and even themselves are kind of catered towards like how can we best help the UA team in order to kind of scale this up. So what would you say would be now like again this is again not the first game that we see here in this like knitting yarn wool style kind

of mechanic which I guess works a little bit better. What would you say would be the the product market fit or like as you were going forward with this when you were thinking about like should we do this? Should we do screws? Should we do physics? Should we do maybe something else?
So I think the yarn mechanic the yarn theme is obviously CPI related. we saw that there's a trend and this is how we come up with like new ideas to test out and obviously this is this is something that Eio introduced to us um but deciding on like we have other titles that we do take on the the yarn theme obviously for CPI reasons the the screw came before right yarn is just kind of a byproduct of it so I think that there's like trends that we see and we try to like we have a good mechanic or we come or we find a good mechanic and we just try it out with different themes with different kind of I don't know looks and and um you know art style stuff like that and it just

like but this is I think this is beyond like the unraveling part is much more beyond just the trend it's like so fulfilling right it's ASMR
it's very satisfying
it's very satisfying
yeah so it's just like more than the actual um you CPI or creatives this is just like there's something about this
actually your games worked in hyperaro ages like a long long time with us so finding low CPI theme finding things that are super satisfying is their nature it's not something they learn today is like they used to test low CPI prototypes DIY games with us for a long time so they know what they are doing they don't need to learn anything like they naturally knows what is satis That's why
nice. That's very important.
Yeah, it's extremely important these days.
Extremely important.
No, because also it's very important to be one of the first ones on the market because now it's like what like 20 of

clones and then the CPI is not as great anymore for them.
Yeah. If you're not the first,
timing is is Yeah. Yeah. Timing is pretty important.
Yeah. did we did try to scale as soon as possible because even before the soft launch we started seeing like we were already on the market but not scaling just yet and we already saw competitors looking like level one
exactly level one
and what would you do in these cases like then like is is there any anything besides measure rush it to to the market is yeah exactly like what do you what
David and I actually had like a long
like we had long discussions about this, right? Because on on the one hand, we started out without like the whole mechanic with the core, the win streak, the X-ray, and we were debating a lot whether or not we want to release it before. And then like already being on the market, change that uh direction. And we were so kind of frustrated

because we we knew that we had to do it like we had to change that direction before we go scaling. And it was just like a rush to get there. We just worked a lot and the developer were amazing. Like they they worked so hard on this to get it to be first or I assume we were first at least in in our like Yeah. Like in in this variation of the game for sure, we were the only ones. We're just now starting to see copycats. Yeah. It was a long debate like everyone pulling for every direction but we just we knew we had to get it right.
Do you notice these copycats are taking your revenue share a little bit or it's just like
CPI annoyance
really.
Yeah,
it was more of a concern. Yeah.
Yeah. I think with all these puzzle games everyone looks more or less similar with each other. It doesn't really matters. You have to compete whatever you can. And also I think school really gave us the the patience

because like school didn't arrive to the market as the first one they but they perform pretty well. It means if we take time to improve our game even if we are not the first one to the market we can still be successful.
That's very true.
Right. Do we want to do numbers while we do admon or should we save that for after the admon questions? your view. All right.
Yeah. I I want to I want to see how Yakob struggles with playing this game.
All right. Okay. Let's let him play.
Yeah. Yeah. Let him play.
So, last time we had Super Sonic, they were talking about how they were looking at ECPM values of cash ads to basically determine if to serve an interstial or a rewarded ad. And that was quite interesting on the mediation setup, what they're kind of doing there. What kind of mediation tricks are you guys doing on this title? We we don't actually have any tricks.
Not not a big secret. We just, you know, we we do like waterfall mediation. We

avert resources to what works and reduce sources to what doesn't work. We keep being very vigilant on every campaign that we do. But there's no like, you know, there are different campaigns for different type of users to to kind of get them, but there's no tricks here. We just
I think even though we have no tricks here like uh Supersonic has been a big big publisher for years and we actually practiced and tested all the setups. So even though we have no tricks but we are pretty sure we are up to the best practice of the industry. So probably that's why we think there's no secrets but we just using all the bikes the best practice we get from our partners.
Cool. So it's pretty much a regular setup with biders. some networks on placements and then maybe some bid floors as well for some geos.
I guess we avoid all the mistakes.
Cool. And how did you decide on ad frequency? Right? Because every time I play a level, the first thing I do is watch one rewarded ad to start off

because basically that decreases the difficulty quite a lot. But how do you decide on the frequency when to start with interstitials for example?
So we're actually just now starting out even discussing and testing out interstitials. So I don't actually have an answer just yet. For sure I will maybe in a month or just inside you know we might decide that this is just not the the direction but we offer RVs mostly. So inside the level itself we offer you the ability to choose to watch an RV for you know to create whatever level of difficulty that you want to engage in. I know that there's a lot of players that right off the bat just open another box to make it easier and some like the the pressure and like the the skill.
I do it at the end at the end of the level. Come on, man.
I do it at the start.
I just start at the start.
My heart is broken, guys.
We have the debate about it, but I play the same way. I start two boxes right

from the start and also our team leaders. Eventually, we find the less than 10% of players are doing are playing that way. So, it's not a big issue.
Unique. We're unique, Jakob.
We're just minmaxing. That That's
You're not minaxing. You're just you're just the noob version.
Yeah. But the majority of players do like the the the pressure and
Exactly.
aspect of it. And uh like I'm the same. I only open a box when I absolutely have to. Using boosters, like whatever is necessary. So much more kind of puzzle, like classic puzzle. But the thing is that we're just a player that learns the game, knows that they can use whatever is necessary to make it their own, right? Some players just like the zen of it and then they'll open the boxes and just, you know, unravel away. And some will like the pressure and the difficulty of it. So we just offer them to watch and choose to watch whatever they want to make it their own like

Yeah. Um, so I'm just going to unravel or not unravel, that's a really good uh saying here, but I'm just going to talk about what you said because I think it's very important, right? So that's one of the the biggest trends that I've seen probably in game development the last two years, right? So interstitial ads absolutely crater your retention, right? So if you can get good ad revenue, which I think you have on this uh uh with only rewarded ads, that is so much better than to even involving interstitial ads, right? So now I guess the interesting thing is how are you guys going to be unrolling interstitial ads or how much you're actually going to be doing it because I have a feeling here the impa is somewhere between five and seven on the rewarded side probably on 60 to 70% on the ad viewer rate if that's roughly correct blink once. No. All right.
So the the interstitials were a debate.
Yeah.
Here for sure. Like I love the aspect of the player choosing to watch it. We are testing it right now and the idea is

just to have like I think when introducing interstitials first of all it it cannot be too much and I think there has to be a habit to it like some kind of a rule that the player can predict and it doesn't catch them by surprise. So like if we introduce an interstitial at the end of every level if it wasn't like immediately after an RV, right? The player knows that at the end of every level there is an interstitial and they kind of anticipate it and so it doesn't bother them as much. Of course it depends on when you introduce it and you have to like test it out and for sure paying users will never get an interstitial for sure. I think that I I agree that it does damage retention obviously, but there's a fine line between trying to get like as much alpo as you can and and you know, I don't know, you have to balance it, I guess.
Yeah, it's a trade-off.
Yeah. And I've long been for last six months, I've also been talking about how

banner ECPMs has been absolutely dropping off a cliff in the last two years, right? I also noticed there's no banners here, right? So what's the kind of decision- making behind not having banners? How do you feel towards banners right now?
That's also a debate.
Yeah.
So I kind of agree. I think that the whole kind of approach to this title was just to have the level be at you know the the center of attention like the main focus and everything that kind of blinks or you know draws attention is something that I would rather not have. But again, at some point in the in the lifetime of the game, you have to introduce things that blink, things that, you know, draw attention with offers with, I don't know, live ops, whatever it is. And at some point, again, it's just a balancing act. If it's worth it, I'm sure we will test it at some point because you have to I have to know whether or not it's worth it. But I wouldn't damage the game experience for it. I think

maybe maybe interstitials could be so annoying it would actually increase the conversion rate to payers.
True. And that's also a good approach like a lot of um old school I don't know how old but like old school hyper that's what they did right the only offer that they do with no ads pack. So that's also maybe something to to consider. It just uh occurred to me as well, right? Since you have such a high uh percentage of APS here, would you also consider at some point offer walls or is that uh step too far and you don't think it would work?
I don't know to answer that right thing that we're considering right now.
All right. So before giving it over to UA, you don't need to answer this, right? But I think based on my estimates here that this game is earning anywhere between 10 to 12k a day in ad revenue from the rewarded ad setup. But in the last weekend uh since it was Thanksgiving, I think that probably number was close to 16 because it was Black Friday in America.
So

don't need to continue if you want.
Yeah, I don't need to answer that. But yeah, that's what what I'm saying, not what you're saying, right? Oh yeah.
So I haven't actually looked at just us for the past weekend. We have an amazing monetization manager who is already kind of dissecting everything and looking into it. I can get back to you. I maybe
no pressure maybe.
She's she's true like we we never check us individually because we are more product people. We more focus on how to improve the product. So us alone we truly don't know.
Yeah. I think I think it's enough. Let's just go to the numbers. You are struggling with that level for past 15 minutes.
I I do have to say though just like just something on that specifically that I do think that during the holidays we won't necessarily see more ad revenue. We would definitely see more inapp purchase revenue but not always uh like there is if we average it then it would be about the same for the DAO. We would see a

higher DA we would see better installs. we would see a lot of like improvements in the game, but the average especially for ads basically stays well it doesn't increase as much as you would expect but still like the overall is obviously better in during the holidays.
Okay, here's your favorite metric Felix. I think that's that's the estimate based on KD dau and then uh download a day. It has to be definitely very pricey and uh you can have your part and then
you see
yeah 20k I think there's some kind of artifact here or I don't know what was happening with the sensor tower data
you need to do episode with the sensit yeah yeah yeah
because I kind of like feel like especially when the CPI is high the doll is low cut this part because I feel like if the doll is low their data getting more and more skilled.
Yeah. Yeah. That's always like the the

lower it gets the the less the accuracy. But just one thing last thing that I wanted to point out which is like the category itself which is like this is Yep. This is physics. Yeah. We we're there as as as usual. If we go by
save the pets.
Yeah. Save the pets. Uh if you go taxonomy which is physics based there's Angry Birds there and then you are right there basically on the third sport in the category. Yeah. Yeah. So revenue wise only like without wise
of course. So IP revenue and yeah if we go by downloads we see a lot of different things basically from save the pets to yeah
well I guess whatever that is.
I hope this is not forex
because it could well be.
I hope it is. It's it's brave starts. It's not going to be
Yeah. It's not going to be Forex. Okay. Because we've seen multiple games going.
Maybe in five years it will be right.
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. Maybe maybe. Yeah. But good job overall like uh St. I think M you can

take take this over.
Yeah. because we're going to do latest favorite kind of KPIs and comparisons because we're talking about the creatives and UA and stuff and I'm going to go to questions but our favorite new metric is the the number of creatives in the last 30 days which usually says a lot and like kind of shows the scale and the UA potential and all all the all all around it and based on the numbers that the Yakub mentioned which is like K revenue in the last 30 days which IIP only 1,000 creatives is very solid number. So what was the how did you allocate the the budget between the different different channels?
Yeah, so I mentioned this before. Basically we just work with channels that our UA team has already like has knowledge of but we also are trying out new new channels and new approaches. But essentially we just allocate budget to

campaigns that work and you know
you know sources that work and then decrease budget for those that don't and then try to maybe revise and try again like this is
better way to put it is we are a datadriven company.
Of course.
Yeah. Of course. Nice. Yeah. I mean makes sense of been we've discussed this quite a lot with uh with your colleagues and I think you are the same company so you know how it works. Uh well you know what let me share actually this this type because sensor tower doesn't really show the Facebook properly and I see a lot of different creatives on Facebook which are really interesting. So let's say let's let's look at this one. So do with ice.
Yes, there's very interesting uh effect right there and the hook obviously. But we have more more of these. Wait a second.
More of these. Not only ice with

chocolate as well. Yeah,
we have more pigs. So do pigs work?
I guess I guess they do, right?
So the the pig is a is is a funny story. We had the campaign with the pig essentially before all of these effects and it did so well like that specific character. I I do not know why but it was just it was such a good campaign like such a good creative both in in what and retention and I think that kind of just like like look at what a cute character that is and things with it. So I think it just kind of took off, you know, it branched out. Uh that specific piggy, we use that character a lot probably in live ops. You will see it in like other things. But yeah, it's just such a good character. It just came came out of nowhere. But we saw that it does very well with the players.
Like there was a fun story of this pig.

There was a game I think in 2022 we tested on Supersonic with other publish developers. The name also have a like in the title of name also have unravel something and when I was searching for initial idea for this game I saw that game and that game has the highest ECPM on record for supersonic. So I immediately share the idea to the developer so they recreated this the peak is their choice but the concept of video
is from our past experience like a video. Pukan J is like I think they have something like 80 eCPM on iron sauce like all time high for supersonic. It's like a Yeah, it's a legacy from hyper carro ages.
This is amazing.
That's a lot.
That's very huge.
It's a lot. Yeah. Felix, can you benchmark this for people to understand because I don't think so they understand. I've gotten I've gotten $80 eCPM on one game and it was basically the competitor to Empires and Puzzles

and they had a 9% rate.
Yeah, exactly. And they were getting $80 ECPMs and they were only showing 001 rewarded ad per DAO and very low scale, right? And they were getting $80 ECPM that they're getting that at scale is absolutely nuts.
Absolutely insane. It's insane. This also we're looking at by the way like on two minute long version of the pig
unraveling piggy. This is perfect. Yeah, this is this is super satisfying and also like is exactly like how it should be because you saw 10 different versions and now we see also a long version. So this this is perfect. Also, what I'm looking at here is also like two minute long and it looks like an like AI I
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This was definitely okay. This was definitely. So, what's your what's your approach to to the AI kind of side of of this creative

production?
So, we we did tests initially with AI and we are you know embracing whatever is new and we are trying out new things. I I think generally it's like we approach creatives in general or how you would you try out everything that is available to you and you see what works and when it does work you know invest more time or money or resources into it and if it doesn't I don't know maybe kind of scale back and try again at another time if you have like different um capabilities or something like that but I do think that the we will see like an increase in our uh usage of AI in 2026 for sure.
That's our prediction basically right there.
Yeah, exactly. That's
50% creative done by AI. Sorry,
I will say that the creative that you just showed like the weaving thing that's actually a really cool collaboration that we did with the

creative team. Uh we had that. So, this is a mini game that Eio introduced to us, this weaving mini game, and we added it to Unravel, not just for extra content, but also to be part of the creatives. And we just tested it out, and it proved to be really like
this one, right?
Very well. So, this is actually something that you'll see now in Unravel on the stores.
This amazing.
How often do you show it? Is it between levels or when do you decide to show it?
So, it's uh it's not a live op. It's not like a town based mechanic. It's a mini game that you unlock levels for this weaving miniame by
advancing in the core levels.
Okay. Very cool.
When do you when do you introduce like level 20, 40, 10, 15?
To be determined. Still testing it out.
All right. All right. All right. All right.
I haven't seen it until level 10. So I guess it's kind of late because levels are very long.
Super long. Super long. I mean we makes

sense. You know what also it's great that I can also see it's a mix of different well different it's thousands of creatives and we also see playables which is exactly what I always want to see when we're talking about different games. So I mean this is this is well done guys. I mean good job because we usually you know like the usual problem we we face when we discuss games is people are just scaling and they are just getting to 2 million monthly revenue with 10 ads and they're like, "Oh, wait a second." And then suddenly we see a huge drop off of spend and then the revenue goes down as well. So here, I mean, this is like preparation how it should be because this is one one playable, second playable, so many different videos. Look at this playable. Oh my god, I'm Yeah, I love it.
Our creative team is is amazing. They're supporting us so much like they they

give us
and they should how it should be.
This is how it should be. Yeah. It's because then you have your static images. Perfect. Yeah. I mean all of this. So if we have thousand creatives and if we go just new creatives only for last three days it's 741. Thank you very much.
Wow. Yeah man.
So yeah kudos to the team guys. really well done. So I think
Wait, last question. How many people in your creative team?
Many.
I don't actually I don't know.
Many. Okay. A lot.
There's a a creative team for all of Supersonic, right? And kind of uh with again we allocate resources according to needs. So I don't know how many people are actually working on at any given time.
I assume a lot.
Yeah. funny funny story is like once I visited the Talib office notice someone's like

having phone calls all day. He's he's like a 911 like a receptionist taking phone calls and I ask people like what what does he do? Why does he like taking phone calls all the day? And it turns out he is like managing all the creatives production or communicating with the creative team. So, it's like a full-time job taking phone calls and
yeah,
nice
managing all these things.
You need to coordinate people to get these types of creatives. This is so funny. This is amazing. Now, I wasn't really like this excited for so long when we talk about different casual games. Recently, they are scaling so much. So, again, like kudos to the to the UA team and the creative team and also kudos to you guys for just making such a great game.
Yeah, well done. innovation, preparation, everything looks like it's firing on all cylinders. Really cool to see.
Yeah, strict mechanic twist is really interesting that I must say.
Clever.
Uh any any last comments you would like to share with the audience like where

they can approach you or just if they want to talk to you or how can they find you?
Of course, we're always looking at uh people approaching us like new studios to work with and uh we're very happy to to kind of be talking to new studios. There's a supersonic um like general email that they can approach us for anything. There's also the the site for supersonic where they can just kind of approach us either with kind of uh prototype ideas or just for whatever.
Yeah. And uh reach us on LinkedIn, we will reply. So
perfect. I will add your LinkedIn profiles into the show notes.
Awesome. Thank you very much for coming. Also, dear listeners, thank you very much for for listening until the very end, please join the Slack channel. If you have any comments, any questions, please comment under the video and see you next time. Thank you very much.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye.

[Music]