Angry Birds RUSH: Rovio's next $1BILLION mobile game!

what I want to do is billion dollar games now.
Okay.
My mind is 100% of the time dedicated to finding a way to to make that happen. And that's why we actually, you know, like we are very happy to work with Bravo because we are in a very unique situation. We have the expertise on Battle. We know to make games that are like hugely successful because we we simply read, you know, like the the market. I've been doing that for 25 years. It's just part of my my my life. And we have the biggest mobile IP.
It's rolling the dice [music] with ads making those coins. Jack designs worlds chasing the sky with the [music] two and a half gamers. The midnight crew talking UA adverts and game design too. Mate [music] feel bringing the insight. We're rocking those vibes till the early day master eyes on the prize. Tracking data through the cyerspace skies. Felix stacks colors [music] like a wizard in disguise. Challenge craft realms lift us to the highest. Two and a half gamers talking smack. [music] Slow hockey sick. Got your back. Ads are beautiful. They

like the way. Click it fast. Don't [music] delay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [music] Ah. Ah. [music] Ah. I Yeah. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Hello everybody. Hey guys, thanks for tuning in. This is another special or no super special super rare episode. I mean, well, we have guests, so I guess this very, very rare. And it's going to be a live review of a game that we uncovered on the Soft Lounge Sonar in our previous episode. So, hello everybody again. My name is Matthew Lancherich.
I'm Felix Broberg. And I'm
We are your hosts. And we have two special guests as I've I've said. Uh we have Luis and Stan. Guys, welcome to the show. Please introduce yourselves if you can.
Sure. Thanks. Thanks, Mate, Felix, and

Jacob for having us. Uh my name is Luis, Lisa Camera, uh VP global marketing at ROIO. I run marketing for ROI. Been here now for about four and a half years. Um previously X Scopely, X King, XG Gameoft, X2K. So I've been around 20 years in gaming. I've seen it all from AAA to to uh mobile freeto play. Um been in mobile freeto play specifically since 2013. AAA console before that. Um yeah, based out of Spain but you know globally traveling see a lot of people from this industry at different conferences and so hey maybe Stan you're next.
You so I'm stand I'm the CEO of OBB. I used to work for game love for 11 years. I am the creator of the asphelt franchise which is I hope everyone knows about it by now and I'm also like the creative director on bad rush. So I'm a designer, coder. I do uh I do a lot of stuff actually and

uh I'm very um happy to to be amongst you because we are actually the team have seen your video and we have seen it a lot of time and when we we saw your comments on your emotion we were telling to yourself like wow this guy got it very right and we were like super happy to be invited to to discuss with you.
Nice. Yeah, the because we were like, "Oh my god, like minds blown." Like this is going to be such a great combination of stuff because
very excited.
Yes, very excited. So, thanks for for coming on the podcast and as you said, like we're going to talk about Angry Birds Rush. So, Yako, please if you can share the screen because I think the last time we only were talking about it like through the video, but now we actually narrow the gap. the screen this way. Yeah,
there we go. Yeah. Yeah.
Nice.
Okay. So, here we are. It took just I guess few months from softar that we are actually here live reviewing it. I think

it was the last one. Anyway,
so as we said on the sonar, we think that this is one of the most promising ROI games in the portfolio. That's why we're reviewing it. And [snorts] it's a special combination because it's more than meets the eye basically because uh on the surface of it and again we can get to it. It looks kind of easy and actually very kind of runner up where we have this. Oh, straight into the jackpots. There we go.
Where we have this kind of
surprise.
Yes. something like a runner or pretty much like very easy casual experience of Angry Birds being thrown around and getting coins. And uh yeah, let's maybe do like a more normal run. Uh the important part that there's actual control here that I can steer the bird left to right and there are actual obstacles as you see,
which is really hard by the way,
which is really hard and we'll get to that point. But uh as you see here like I'm collecting coins, I'm going around

and stuff like that. So what's actually happening with all those coins? And if we move further, here's the answer. It's our typical kind of coin looter meta, which is typical for something like Monopoly Go or Coin Master, where we are actually upgrading things, which I cannot upgrade because it's too damn high currently.
But uh yeah, if I would upgrade this village, There's a shield code on this version. You can click on the coins on the top.
Oh, really?
Yeah. Click on this. Just Yeah. Click click. It doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Okay. [laughter]
Live everybody.
Okay. Thank you very much for listening.
I also wish my account work like anyway. So I guess this is the typical like upgrade path of like the coin looter meta which is very very good and is extremely good LTV engine because there's not that many on the market. So there's pretty much the whole kind of

point of this where there's this very very interesting combination because that's what happening on the current market whereas coin looters are entering their I would say third or fourth generation of u let's say evolution I guess we'll get to that later but uh again the important part is that this is now Angry Birds franchise doing the heavy lifting I guess on the front end and then the coin looter at the back end so I guess we can again move to the questions and give a little bit more space to someone else than me as usual just talking product all this time. So Stan if you can begin here and just I guess do a little bit of intro how you come up with this and where where this kind of started from.
It's coming from. Yeah.
Yeah. So thank you Jakob. It came actually um from a distant past. I think like five years ago I was very much a big player of coin master and it seemed very odd because I'm a I'm a lot of people from the industry look at this game with you know a don eye at that

time but I was absolutely hooked on it. I was like a big spender. I had something like 12,000 stars on coin master and I was playing every day. I feel like the format was actually um very interesting because the ratio between effort and pleasure and dopamine was actually very very high and the this type of game was actually a very good fit with my life. I was looking at Netflix or YouTube at the same time and I could play this game and actually I was very very very hooked. So at that time we were working on on another game in in the company which was called first frag and it was like one of our biggest success. But I told to myself like there is something there is some beauty in this type of game. They were not called luck battle at at that time. There was no real name. We just I mean we called them like a coin master or whatever but [laughter]
yeah there was no job for that. And uh back that time we thought to ourel like

there is probably something to be done here uh because this jar is going to evolve. It's very pure in term of mechanics but the the slot machine and visual it's uh probably going to be a limiting factor for for the audience as everybody knows casino game has like huge CPI. So it was not a play we were interested in. So internally I think three or four years ago we created a game which was called go magnet and for us it was like a new generation of luck battle and the idea was we wanted to create a new game play which was based on bubble and merge and not inspired directly from you know like traditional casino game and bring a little bit of say added value to the to the concept. It was in our head. It was probably like a a generation three luck battle because other guys was already trying to to do something with that. During the soft launch of this game, we we were actually at the same time as Monopoly Go and we were talking with the team of Monopoly Go at that time. They had a way better

success than we did. [laughter] Obviously,
it took them a long time that needs to be said.
Actually, the game is absolutely amazing. And I know I know actually the guy from Roio for for a long time. I know Luis of course from the game of pirate but I also know Alex the CEO of Roio and Ben Ben Mates which is the the Mr. Hungry Birds and actually they came at us because they saw what we did for for Google Magnet and they told us like we will be very interesting in having you creating something very creative with the brand. They didn't want to be doing something which was derivative know like a a very standard type of let's say a board game or or or casino game. They wanted us to reach the same level of creativity we had on Google magnet but for the birds. So for us it was like super interesting because uh for one in the history of the company we don't do derivative game. We are always trying to push forward you know like game design. I feel the world is just a

trajectory. You know, if you want to fail, you just copy a static point in time. But if you want to succeed, you look where the trajectory is going and you try to be a little bit ahead. Sometimes it looks a little bit risky. People feel like, wow, what are you trying to achieve right there? Because I cannot compare what you're trying to do with something that exists. But at the same times, if you copy something, you are guaranteed to fail. So I rather take the risk of new like pushing the design forward than just trying to do something which already exists and has like a low probability of of success overall.
So that was the that was the story and then we uh make actually six prototype uh before we selected this one.
Yeah. Yeah, just on just on our end very quickly on the roio side like we had um so myself and team VP of strategy were looking at different genres um and kind of where should we from a new game pipeline standpoint what kind of um strategic bets should we take and clearly the luck battle genre has been

fascinating you know kind of similar it's kind of following a similar trajectory that match 3 did in the past right which is you know it just keeps growing and growing as a as a genre um and and you know we know that from an Angry Birds perspective that that that having an IP generally speaking having an IP really helps you both in terms of you know marketability but also in terms of engagement retention and things like that and so you know for us thinking like hey is there a world in which we can merge our IP with the luck bottle genre and then how do we and then if we do how do we actually build that when we don't know have the knowledge or or the capacity internally so that was also a moment where we're starting to pivot to say hey do we really need to build everything in house can we actually find strategic partners to to team up with who do have expertise. And you know to Stan's point earlier, Alex our CEO, Ben the Angry Birds creative officer, myself, uh Medie who's the VP of new games, we all have a Game Loft background. Um and and so like

we knew Stan quite well and you the pedigree of of OBB, but they're also kind of smaller and scrappy and very ambitious. So like it was just a it was very interesting to see that like there's a possibility here and they really they really understood what we were looking for. So it was great to team up with them.
Nice because I I just checked we talked about this end of September as like a is in soft lounge and now we're here and uh I mean it's quite fast for where we are here.
We haven't even gone to soft launch yet in the way at least at least what roio calls soft launch. What you saw are marketability tests.
Yeah. Okay. and and early and early uh you know early engagement u metric tests um with a prototype that wasn't even which is like a fake prototype because it's built off a different off actually actually maybe Stan you want to talk about that like it's how we how we approach that
the game you are playing is actually not the real game this is a mod above Google magnet so basically we reuse like all the technical aspect of Google magnet and we build this game on top

but there is another project which is actually the real game which is actually much more advanced in term of technical features. It's too early to to uh to show you today, but the whole thing you see right there,
that's amazing.
It's just the prototype.
Perfect.
That's great because I mean
it's quite interesting.
Exactly. It's like
and this is actually this is one of the reasons why this is one of the reasons we wanted to work with Stan and his team is, you know, how fast and scrappy they are. Um and that's something that we value a ton as we look for new partners.
Yeah. Because like I mean it makes all the sense like why would you reinvent the wheel when you have all already have all the technical aspects of of the previous game and you just built this on top of it. Perfect.
We didn't know we we don't have the exactly the the new game.
That's yeah it's it's a bit early but the the gameplay capacity has increased a lot. there is like ton of cool stuff and uh we don't want to to I mean all the IB test we are doing on the prototype right now but the other project is more uh

like the the sustainable version of the game with all the technical aspect being done properly.
Mhm.
Here for the prototype we are just like we go for velocity. We we we have to make shits happen or stuff happen very fast in any way possible and it's the bottom line. on the other project is more like everything we build has to be scalable. It has to work. It has to operate at scale and it has to be like zero bug, zero default. But the velocity of course of this type of production is is not the not the same pace.
Okay. Um maybe if I can a little bit more again get back to the product itself because again run out of energy literally. I mean,
the thing that I wanted to mention is that one of the big differentiators for this game
I'm playing since we started again and I'm like level 42 and honestly I'm I keep getting free energy.
Free energy. Okay, I guess I get the offer. Anyway, I mean what I wanted to

say is that uh again we'll get to the I guess overall co market situation later but again if you've been following our channel we'll review like a lot of games lately and like this kind of bait and switch fake gets fake on boarding thing which is coming from Forex is going there. That's again what this game is doing.
What's what is fake man? Like seriously
we'll get to it. I guess I said we'll get to the marketing part. No worries. Uh but again the big difference here is that lots of these games they have very easy let's say on boardings as for there's not even like negative emotions or stuff that like you can affect pretty much is more automatic whereas here when I actually sling the bird I can steer it but I can also hit an obstacle which actually gives you zero. Uh even if you collected any money you get back to zero pretty much. Uh so one question is like how did you approach this kind of let's say player input thing because like yours this is essentially like the slot machine that's being masked within the

runner style visual the negative emotion that's being done by the player skill cap and then the other question after that when and how did you set up the assist feature which is by the way better than me as I'm playing this
obviously that's how I progressed like so so fast in last last couple of days
because it's quite hard at some point to steer the Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is a big one actually because it's it's let's say it's it's the the core of the risk we we are taking because what we believe is like battle jar is evolving and part of this evolution is of course low lowering the CPI through more engaging visuals but also more engaging gameplay. Actually, if you look at animal coins or tetris block party, you can see the trend, you know, like they they're trying to introduce a little bit of skills because actually people love love skill. People love games, but after some times it can be, you know, like a little bit too demanding for your life and you are very happy to have an automiz automatized game play for this type of

game. In the end, people are playing like 80% to maybe even 90% in automatic mode because it just like know like a companion to the life but uh we believe like the UK was just much more powerful if you had a little bit of control. Then it's a matter of mathematics in in our situation. We have like two big change. One is the length of the session because in a in a traditional log battle game the spin only lasts for 4 seconds maximum. So here we have like maybe 20 second spin which create like some kind of necessity to rebuild the world economy around that concept and the other other issue is like there's a big variation of come when you do a spin you don't have like a deterministic outcome you have a multiple possibility in term of economy and in time of balancing so it's totally different most of the time I think like um this is a very big change a lot of people simply would not want to tackle this type of stuff and rather you know like copy there is like tons of friendly of copy

of monopoly go or master because it's it's it's way easier to do that.
Yeah. This is the iteration part. It's hard.
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. Exactly. And and trying to push things forward is always very difficult and not a lot of people want to to do that. the big B the big bold let's say move we we made and it was because you know like Roio was very much you know interested by innovation and wanted to to create something very unique and huge was to accept this this uh this extra difficulty because eventually it fit better with the with the bird on the on the on the wall audience there was there was sorry other prototypes which were different with less skills and much more random and Even eventually I can show show you some quick video of them and explain to you why in the end we we came with that game play. And in term of difficulty going back to your initial questions, we are iterating a lot of the control and there is like other version going on and uh

there is some kind of of course the balance here is is is very complex to find but the way we approach it is we believe like um the game is going to be so popular. It's going to attract various audience. It's a game for the family. So basically there's going to be people of my age. I would say middle age middle age people but people
yeah we're not getting any younger 10 unfortunately so yeah
that's that's all right on the truth and the truth is I think as I grow older my dexterity is getting lower so I appreciate a lot more games that are you know like assisted and you know like helping me perform and the older you get the more true this this become but when you are a little bit younger in your 20s 80s you are you appreciate a little bit of skills it's much more interesting because You feel in control of your destiny after some point when you are old. I think you just want to be rewarded for your for your time and attention. You don't want to be tested. Life is testing you way enough. You just want to be rewarded for your

time.
I mean, look, I think the more complexity or like the harder it gets. We saw it with We Are Warriors and it was hard from the beginning and the game made pretty much like a lot of money and was a big success as well. So I can understand like if this is going to be hard then it's going to attract slightly different audience but that doesn't mean it's it's going to
it's easy to do.
Exactly. Yeah. One of one of the things we can say about like as well like when we approach this from an audience perspective is you know we still have at the at the end of the day we still have very much in focus that you know we want this game to be highly successful with people that play the genre right so that's that tends to lean when you actually look over time it's actually funny if you look at like Monopoly go or even coin master they started off with a very young audience very broad audience over time the audience skues starts to skew much more female and older And so you know we we have very much in mind that that core audience that core

spending audience is important that this game really satisfies. So when we look at you know market testing etc when we do user testing research etc. we make sure that that that audience is basically ticking the boxes of like yeah this makes sense I like this or I don't like that getting that feedback and then iterating on that. But the beauty of the the beauty of our brand and and kind of the approach the design approach that Stan's taking is that we're also now widening the audience. So so we're widening that funnel. Um and and so like you know especially if we can crack the social side of this game which is you know something that Sam talks a lot about about like what made for example Monopoly Go extremely successful even what made Coin Master successful back in the day was is is that really that social experience and by widening the funnel the way we look at it is like if you're able to bring in all sorts of different age groups and demographics into the game at the top of the funnel and you get a certain level of engagement even if those are not high spenders if there's a real great social loop and they actually then bring in other family members or friends or whatever, but then that's a great

acquisition, you know, way to like bring in some of those high value players versus only buying them through UA. So, we see that with Angry Birds too, our flagship game, right? Where at the top of the funnel, we have very very young audiences. When you look at who's retaining long longterm and who's spending a lot of money, it's people 50 plus. A bunch of those came in through UA, but a lot of them also came in from word of mouth from like potentially younger people that, you know, said, "Hey, like check out this game I'm playing."
Yeah. You you put their collective album Facebook groups and then you're fine.
Thank you. Trading and then see you next time. Okay. Oh, it's very important. I mean, that's what Monopoly Go did really well, I guess. So, okay.
And that's why collectible albums are pretty much in every single casual game from that point. I mean
even at midcore these days by the way.
Yeah, exactly. makes makes a lot of sense.
Anyway, by the way, Stan, if you want to share screen, I guess this is this is the time.
Yeah, for you are going to see something that nobody in the world beside the roio team has uh has ever seen. Most of the

time company are very protective about that, but it's it's let's say um there was a lot of effort put into it and it's very fun to to watch. Some of the prototypes you're going to see are very ugly and they are very bad. But uh
functionality is what matters.
Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah.
Actually, let me let me give a little bit of context here as well because I think it's important so you guys understand sort of our perspective, you know, Roia perspective going into this, which was, you know, we when we when we spoke to Stan and the team, it was very important for us that whatever experience we built would feel Angry Birds, right? So like, you know, if we took Monopoly Go and reskinned it with Angry Birds, that would not feel like just having a little bird go around the board, etc. Yeah,
like that wouldn't feel authentic and it would just look like a gimmick, right?
There's already a coin mastery scheme of monopoly coin master adventure.
So like the point was with Stan is like one of the things that we did was really interesting is we actually sat down we like myself and Teemo uh and then and then Ben from from remotely. We had a

workshop in Paris where, you know, they explained everything they knew about the genre to us and we tried to really explain to them what for us it meant to be authentically Angry Birds. And that gave them a bunch of different things um to like play around with. And one of the big eye opening things for me was because of their expertise, they were like saying, "Hey, if you really want to do this genre, well, you don't have to do it slot machine or board game, whatever." Like the cool thing about this genre, what makes it a genre is the meta layer, but the core is actually can be very unique and it can be very like uh very highly um innovative. So that's kind of where we came to this stage where Stan and Stan and team played around with all sorts of crazy ideas.
Yeah. Because you look at the Carnival Tycoon and Top Tycoon and suddenly it's like oh that's very different on boardex thinking.
Yeah. Which is great. But that's exactly how how you can grow this quite heav quite successfully and heavily like that's what we see with

these two these two games anyway. I mean
um okay so what do we have here?
It's already on the time as well.
Let's go. I I need to to lower the the
a little bit.
I need to lower.
So this one was one of the very early prototype. As you can see we are not using the birds. We were using mice and cats for one good reason is because all these prototype were tested in UA. And when you work with a brand like Angry Birds, you want to be very protective about the IP. So we didn't want to put let's say in the open content that was not up to the level of what Angry Bird should should be. When we do this prototype, it's maybe one or two weeks of work every time. And uh there was no no way we're going to involve the birds into into our test
also because then you use you use angry birds and then suddenly you have very misleading data anyway, right? It's like it's
Yep. Yeah. We want to use the we want to we want to test with the with the with the IP once we confident in in the core

concept.
Okay. Nice. But
so this one was kind of a Mario Party slingshot system.
So it's linking on the actual board.
On the actual board. Yeah. Exactly. And it was interesting but that time we felt it was a bit derivative. So we we we continue to iterate on that but it was it was not retained. Another crazy concept we had was this one. Sorry just I cut the music because it's very loud. It was just like some kind of tetris using the blocks, using the slingshots and uh basically if you do a combo it would you know like earn you coins on on there was something important for us in the brand is actually the the blocks. A lot of game in the Angry Birds universe kind of neglected this aspect. The bird are very important to the brand. They create a connection with the audience in term of emotion, relativity. You like the birds, but the reality is like in Angry Birds one or or two, the core game play is

based on your interaction with blocks. So for us, it was super important to be able to provide this physics blocks into the system. So we all the idea we had iterated around the concept of slingshot bird of course
obviously the the blocks.
Yeah. the picss. Your hero is only as good as your villain.
Yeah, this one was this one was like the original prototype for the for the runner. So, you can see the level of quality we had in in two weeks. There is some common uh common element and what we did basically is we uh we I will show you another one and we tested.
Thank you. This one might seem familiar, right, to another game out there that's doing reasonably well.
Yeah.
And we try that and then we iterated basically every two weeks we improved the we improve the the concept and we added the new ID. One of the new ID was uh this one. Basically, there was like a

big tower and you and you were starting to to destroy it and um there was something a little bit off with with that. I will I will get uh to that later. But most of the time Angry Bird in 3D doesn't work very well. The original game was in 2D and for good reason it works very well because you have antitration of your trajectory. But when the camera is align on this orientation,
you lose all the cascading the cascading effect and most of what makes Angry Bird actually great. So to my personal point of view, and I mean I'm totally okay if anyone disagree, but I feel like Angry Bird in 3D up until now maybe was not as great as it could be. I will show you something else. Uh I think this one was like fake. Oh, sorry.
I love the AI man. [laughter]
Yeah, this one was actually when we did CPI test.
We benchmark against a slot machine visual.
Okay. just machine.

Yeah.
Well, above or below.
I mean, if you if you were above this like then you wouldn't be having a job speaking here.
Exactly. But it's part and actually IA was very interesting for that because we were not going to build you know like our own slot machine video game. So, uh it was it was very fast and of course we beat we we beat this video otherwise we we will have make a slot machine. Just a pause here because people don't really realize like this is very powerful move. So you know if you're actually benchmarking in a good way or you are going in a very wrong direction like putting this into the as a control group is a very smart thing to do.
Yeah. We also this is a sorry sorry about the music.
I swear to God when I'm going going to go to sleep this this music is going to be in my head for sure. That means that means we should be using it in UA creative because that's like radio ads. You remember it forever.

We keep pushing we keep pushing uh all this one.
So you're actually pushing more prototypes simultaneously.
Yeah actually. Yeah.
That's quite interesting. So like few ideas are basically still surviving and being pushed forward to next stage
and sometimes new idea arise. So we had this idea of a very simple spinner like
Mhm. It's quite creative.
Yeah.
Yeah. But then you have the cards there which didn't help the CPI most probably.
Yeah. Actually it was boring.
One one thing one thing important message to m to to explain is like we were not only looking at CPI right. So the other thing we were doing is on the internal side is is Stan Stan and the team would provide us on the ro side builds that had multiple prototypes and then like a survey for us um to actually go and say like how much fun did you have? How much did it feel like Angry Birds etc etc. So like it it was a way for them to get feedback from ROIO so

that like as a stakeholder that they knew that that what they were doing was going in the right direction or not. So we were kind of had two angles, right? There was the marketability angle, but then there was like the how authentic is this to what ROI is looking for angle
also. And then when you were kind of testing these prototypes, marketability one thing and then you were you just collecting also like the build data like the play time and all the the different stuff or not really or the the game side was only for like roio internal part and then the marketability was for like this. Okay. Okay. and it was just internally but we also kind of let's say evaluate the team happiness with the prototype. It's very important to be honest you know like when something doesn't work especially when you are doing so much prototype the Tina has to be very honest like wow this this one is boring this one doesn't work this one even if the guy has has spend a lot of energy on the prototype uh we always cultivate this kind of you know

like sincere sincere truth there is no need to protect bad ideas the goal is to protect the game on the long terms and people need to be absolutely honest about that when they do a prototype and the prototype is not good it doesn't mean the guy is not good. It just mean like the idea we are pursuing is not as good as we wish. But we encourage like the the the fact that the people on on the prototype are separated. We we don't judge people based on that and the same person can make like the best prototype and the worst. But it's okay as long as people are in a in agreement with that.
This is like one of the hardest things about game design. You need to be able to kill your baby. That's the first thing. And it's an idea. It's not you. Everybody has ideas.
Sure. But it's very hard to do that like killing. Yeah. Exactly. Because you're very much attached to to whatever you are building and it's like, "Oh, it doesn't work." Oh, no. No. What the worst case scenario is it's not bad, but it's not great either. It's somewhere in the middle and like, "Oh, like what to do now?" And that's that's where you

should Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's okay. That's the worst that's the worst answer. What are the KP? I mean, they're okay. And after some some times we ended up with like only two prototypes that we really liked. And I will show you like the the two the two we we kept. One was called runner. The other one was called jumper. And this is the jumper. Sorry. Just let me keep
find this song. Yeah. But this is already roio style or like
this one. This one was one that was actually going like from our side was getting quite positive feedback.
Okay. So, it was starting to look like this could be an option as well.
No, no, internal for all internal. Felix,
now now I'm talking about internal feedback.
Didn't see the light of the day until now.
Yeah. So, this one was quite cool actually. The rhythm was fast. It was interesting because we could have like maybe 4 second type of run. But there

was one like maybe there was two big issue. One of them was it becomes very repetitive after sometimes and when we build a game you want to make sure like people want to play that for 10 years.
Not only you want your players to be able to play it for 10 years but you also want your team to be entertained by the idea of working on this game for 10 years and most of the time both correlate. If your game is is you know like after one or two hours it becomes boring. Maybe you're going to have a good day one but your day 30 of course is going to be impacted by by by that a lot. even day seven.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
That's the genius of like match three games, right? Like you can play a match three game for years and years and years. It's just the core is constantly every every time you play a new level, it feels like you're playing again from zero. It's amazing.
And then there was so
No, I was just saying that getting that like when you look at a core game design, you know, it's so important that

every time you play it feels like you're almost playing fresh again. So, let's see the runner then. And I guess Yes. Yes. I guess that's that's what this
quite quite close to what you guys are seeing now. And and it's like as Stan said, like he hasn't shown you what they've most recently built, which is really cool because it has all sorts of like cool new features like I don't know. I don't want to give too many spoilers there, but okay.
Grab a you can grab a like a helium balloon and float with it and you have carts that you drive around and slides and tubes and all sorts of cool things as well. Yeah. By the way, Stan, let's say kick a question. Do you know a game Burrito Bison? Maybe.
Yes, of course. Actually, actually, you are putting your finger on something which is absolutely essential to
Yeah, we were discussing like this looks exactly like Yeah,
I'm fan and like when I when I saw this like immediately
the absolute beauty of what we are doing because in reality we are not doing a runner. We are doing a slingshot bizone type of game. In term of visual, it look

as appealing as a runner, but we have like an unfair advantage. For this type of game to be successful, we need short session. We don't want people playing 45 minutes without ever losing or ever, you know, like having to to bet again. But the slingshot, the slingshot is incredible because in your mind it has a limited amount of power. So, you know, just like Nanaka Crash, Buron, all these old games, you know that your run is not going to be endless. and you know that it's going to to stop when you reach the ground and it's going to be over and you have to to start again. The most incredible aspect of this game is the fact we were managed to combine what looks like to be a runner with the identity of the brand which is slingshot physique blocks and make it match with the meta of of of a battle. And most of the time people will will will feel like oh subway server stuff like this but
that was that was my my first guess like oh wait a second it looks like subway

servers but only on the first side.
Yeah only on the first side and it plays a little bit like that and we have also you know like iteration of the control where it's lane based lane based is very interesting also it's more reactive easier to control. We are doing some AB test because we feel we are just liking like the the physical aspect you add in Angry Bird because it's very rooted into the brand like the way the bird behave in the original game. it's physic based. So when you move it the way you want, it's actually physic based. When it's it's lane based, it's more like it's a little bit different. But both are very interesting and uh we are still doing iteration of of of on the two concept and we we will see in the end which one is is retained. But your your point is is very valid and very well a very very very good observation because basically it was the reference for for the guy who did the prototype was
because I was playing look I was playing for 30 minutes basically with recording

and it's 49 already but my phone is cooked pretty much so I can yeah I can yeah I can make a breakfast on it right now actually mente one of the things that you know it's funny because This is what thing that we love about when we when we've been playing a lot with with OBB's product here. One of the things that we love on the Robio side is in the core gameplay itself, the flow state you can get into, right? Where you just want to keep going and you're like and then that means energy starts to become really interesting, right? Because you're like, "Oh, I don't I want to keep going and I'm out of energy, right?" But then the other aspect that I think really was interesting is that you said like we didn't notice that you were playing because you know you were participating in the podcast, right? Yeah.
And and that's and that is, you know, in casual gaming,
that's the holy grail, right? If you play as a second screen experience, you know, and um and do that in your daily routine, like whether you're on the bus, whether you're watching Netflix, whether you're, you know, you're you're in the queue for the supermarket or whatever,

like that's that's really um and you know, and it is has a little bit of skill base, right? And the fact that you can do second screen and it's still somewhat skill-based is I think it's something really cool that Stan and team have built there.
No, 100%. Uh
I think the the I would say the the the one the one challenge that we're still trying to figure out is at the end of the day these games live and die this genre lives and die by the meta. So if our core is so good, we're a little bit worried about like can we make people get as hooked onto the meta as as the core is. Um because normally it's the opposite, right? Normally in these games where people really get into it, it's because of the meta and um and the and like the core is kind of like whatever. But in this case, the the core is just fantastic. Yeah. Well, uh I w I worked on one game you previously mentioned at the very beginning of the of the podcast, which is close to one big IP and that yeah, the the core was really really entertaining. I was playing it all the time. So I wasn't really paying attention to attention to to meta afterwards, but I think like it works really well and now it's global launched

and it's it's kind of growing quite nicely. So I mean this is kind of an advantage. I know. Yeah, I've been I've been uh working with few of these before and on the UA side. Oh my god. So it's really hard. So that was going to be really interesting challenge for for you and and the team that drove you also at some point when you go to to soft launch. But before we go there, my main question about the marketability test is like how did you ended up with actually this product like what were what was the actual KPI that you like the lowest CPI or like what what were you looking for basically with this prototype that is actually winning now or one
which so like on on our end there's there's a bunch of things that we were doing um you guys look at breeding here now in [laughter] the meantime.
Um, so when we look when we when we um

when we're in early phases of a of a game, we have different we have we have a series of processes that we go through. One of them is obviously doing a market analysis. Does it make sense? You know, we actually do some market research and we um we try to understand the audience very well that we're building for. But then we go into the the actual tests. And so then we bifurcate in two types of tests. we have the early marketability call it you know CPI test. We actually had the conversation whether we want to do just creative testing or actually have builds. Um our our you know our feeling nowadays it's much better to have some sort of build even if it's time.
So I told my boss I made a playable [music] app with playable maker and he said to me what language did you code it in? And I said I don't know with playable maker all you [music] do is drag drop click and it does it all for you. So again he said what language did you make it in?
[music]
in I don't know English at the end of the day as long as a playable maker does it all for you why do you care [music] it's just like magic

playable but like have the install so you can actually get a proper CPI like the you know as much as I love Geek Lab you know shout out to Jesse and the team like and and and the you know and other tools in the past
it's just not real CPI it's not real CPI
yeah you're doing CPA campaigns right you're like you're you're you're doing impressionbased clickbased campa campaigns which you know are optimizing to click. And so then when you're looking or you're trying to create your your your CPI uh estimate, it's it's you know it's it's not relevant, right? Or or it's the only the only thing I would say in favor of those types of tests a they're cheap and easy to do. And it works in terms of not trying to get a CPI read, but just trying to compare, right? If you want to get
which way to go pretty much.
Yeah. If you're like if you have very very different routes that you're thinking about, those tests can work well. But ultimately at the end of the day, I've always been in favor of, you know, at least on Android. On iOS, it's a little bit harder, but at least on Android, you know, get like even if it's

just a survey in the build,
you know, like and just a thank you message like, hey, thank you. This is just a concept. Give us some feedback, but get an actual install read. That's one angle. So, yes, looking for CPI. Um, the other thing we do is play test, right? So, we actually, you know, whether it's play test cloud, etc., we get c we get you know the right types of users in um to test the prototypes and give us actual feedback. We don't do that when we have lots of different prototypes. We don't do that when we're starting narrow down a little bit more. Um but once we have some more more clear focus areas is when we start running some tests. So I don't know stand if there's anything you guys want to talk about some of the tests you guys ran um with support roio there. For us, I mean, um, on top of everything you said, for us, just from a gameplay perspective, because we are providing something new to the market, we wanted to make sure like people will get into the into the funnel. Basically, people could react positively or negatively to the game. And there was two stuff very important for us. One, of course, is to

get the the fan on board. For us, I mean, I know it sounds uh it sounds very classical, but it's a reality. We we started to get in touch with the top influential Angry Birds player in the world. We have like a secret discord where we talk to each other and like we submit them like a lot of the content actually and we get feedback and we try to improve when when they are not satisfied
because this brand is like so popular. There is like a a very let's say very very dedicated part of the fan base that has a lot to say on the way the game should be should be made.
Yeah. And actually one thing one thing about Yeah. And actually actually the guys the guys I talked to, they don't know it's me. So I created a fake character which is called like the mystery bird.
Oops.
And they're probably they're probably watching this by the way right now.
Yeah. I don't know if they're watching this, but I will send them to to them because I I've been talking to them for maybe six six months or seven months now.
But building with but building with an IP, this is an important topic because building with IP is not like building

without an IP or or bringing a new IP into the thing. you have a you have an audience out there that can be very passionate about what you do. And the reality is with Angry Birds, there is a core fan group out there, some of them very influential on social and on Reddit and and and Discord, etc. They they basically hate anything we do that is that is nonremium. So they they mostly hate freeto play,
of course.
They don't like anything that's not like slingshot classic Angry Birds. So when we do, you know, match three Angry Birds, normally they're not, let's call them, very enthusiastic about what we're doing,
right? And obviously we have a business to run,
but this is exactly why Ben and Stan um decided to go down that route. Like, you know, yes, I'm CMO, but like it's not, you know, not no credit to me. This was really Ben and Stan. You know, it was like Ben raised the Ben, sorry, again, is our guy who is kind of in charge of all the creative around Angry Birds as an IP. um he's the one that's most in touch with these folks and you know and

he knew that like if we didn't get them on board they could easily blow up this opportunity right because like let's get let's be honest like luck battle is borderline casino and it's
you know this could have gone really really wrong
it but I think what Stan and Ben did was a pick the right people to talk to first you know people that we knew that were not going to be pure toxic that people that were going to at least you could actually have a conversation with because there are some people,
you know, no matter what you do, they're going to hate on it. But there are those people kind of in the middle that depending where things go, they can be positive or they can be destructive. And and the important thing was that that Stan and the team were able to demonstrate to them that they got it, that they understood the IP, that they that they understood what they cared about to and explained how they were approaching the design in a way that was embracing the IP to to the extent of, for example, including a character called Ruby, who is actually a fan

created character who now is the
Yeah, that's clever. That's clever.
But anything anything you want to mention about those conversations? I think it's really fascinating.
That's really good.
They were actually very valuable because sometimes your your biggest are actually the people who care the most about your product. So it's very important to to lend the ear and try to understand what's going on. And actually the the initial dynamic was a little bit aggressive of course like they they were saying like well what are you trying to do? But then after a while, no, we are like almost best friend. They are very positive about everything we do and they provide like very valuable, you know, like feedback that we we take in account. We change the design of the characters a little bit based on on what they ask and we we ask them for like um nostalgia is very important, you know, like to make a successful game. And basically like these guys, they know the the brand.
Yeah. through via all the current.

So they g like this little ideas of little characters or little special moment that they want to to to life again within the game. So in term of branding, what we want to do is is to create a love letters to to to the birds. The the birds were absolutely, you know, like a big a big part of the of the history of mobile game. My my kids were playing, you know, like on their iPad the first bird every day. And I mean a lot of us have like a personal connection to to to the brand. I think this has to be respected. And if if we manage to to to make that alive into the game, then we have like an incredible product for for for the brand. And that's why we are fighting so so hard to include all these little ideas and nostalgia point in the new prototype. Uh, I mean it's not a prototype anymore, but on the real project there is even more like um let's say link between the past of the of the brand on the on the game.
Yeah. I mean, that's great because you basically prepared the ground for you

releasing the new game and just got in touch with the the most influential guys just to be kind of on the safe side and then as you said like if they started to hate this then you can just close and then move on which is not an ideal situation. Okay, very good. So, but then then like the big question is we are now it's it's February basically and you said also it's not in soft launch. So when is that gonna happen?
So this is where this is where we come in and and you know and put pressure on Stan and the team. No, like look to be to be to be to be honest like we would like to get it out as soon as we can, but you know, as Stan mentioned earlier, they everything that you've seen is sort of smoke and mirrors built off another game's engine and and infrastructure. And so they've had to sort of build everything in the ground up. Uh again, for the sustainability of hopefully this game being a 10, 15, 20 year game.
Oh, hello. Hello there. I didn't see you. Thank you very much for coming to

this episode. Uh, it's brought to you by our sponsors, PVX Partners, the simplest and most effective credit line for marketing. If you're scaling your business uh, and need funding, here's the deal. With PVX Partners, you can grow your game easily and your business. There's no equity dilution. You can repay as you get paid, and it's flexible and fully tailored to your growth. So, you can secure funding in 30 days and get a term sheet in just 24 hours. Don't you wait. take control of your UA budget without giving away of uh a piece of your company. Visit pvxpartners.com and uh see how they can help you grow your game faster and stronger. Don't wait. Go to pvxpartners.com. Um that being said, it's not like they're just doing that and that's it. Like we're still writing tests, we're still iterating on things, um etc. But I don't know, Stan, like uh maybe summertime hopefully.
Yes. Which year? Which year?

Yes. Let's say there will be the new version of the game which is going to be available probably, you know, under the radar for sometimes around summer. But our target, you know, to have like a finalized product which is able to to scale is more around the same time as the new movie is going to to be released by by the end of the year. It's it's not it's not I mean the the movie is not t of course to the
It always helps, man. It always helps. I mean,
exactly. It's always better for everyone to be, you know, like a to have a media hotspot where everyone is talking about the the brand on the game. So, this is what we're targeting. But this game,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But if the movie is live or the movie is coming up,
Movie is Christmas, which December
the game needs to be worldwide then, not soft launch because then you get nothing.
Soft launch, I guess, as I mean, again, St. I don't know how you guys think about this, but you know, we want to run, we obviously want to run tests before that, but again, it depends on

what stage the actual game is in and so forth.
So, I don't know, Stan, anything you want to mention about that or
Well, the the movie is uh the movie's release date is actually my birthday, so it's a good uh it's a good coincidence.
So, you know,
that's all I can say.
But the the reality is this game build over time. Right now we are like building a game at high speed because uh
yeah we have done already a lot of tests so we know what we're doing. We have already numbers retention finels everything. So we know we we are in the good. Uh so the question is oh I can we go with the with the final product. And then there is another question is this luck battle on social game don't behave the same at low scale and high scale. This was particularly true for monopoly go and at low scale the capis were actually just a fraction of the the game when it when it was like a worldwide hit and there is one big reason for that is when you play with someone you know your

kpis are just like three five time betters. We even in Google magnet which has like a small volume. We look at the the court of people who retain the most and people were playing with someone they knew they had like 35% dert. So uh I mean basically you want to have this chunk of player to be as big as possible and you have to saturate a little bit your market in order to to get there. To do that you need like a very strong social core into the game and this is what we are also building. Nobody have seen what we are going to do on that but
that's good.
Yeah it's going to be a very important aspect to the success of the of the game.
So again soft lounge win
summer kind of or like
after summer I guess
after summer I guess. Okay. There will be quick test quick under the radar and then you know I think you you mean the test you actually pick up was supposed to be absolutely under the radar you

know it was on dark matter account
well two and a half steps ahead of the industry I mean stand you can't you can't really hide stuff from us I mean seriously
yeah dark dark matter it's not I think we need to rebrand dark matter now as well
yeah we we were just having fun like oh dark m like why is it there like of course because it's just it should be yeah undercover man like who would just kind of try to find
a lot of the core Angry Birds fans know dark matter now for years. So like it's it's kind of it's kind of defeating its own purpose by this date, you know, whatever.
No, but one of the things also one of the things that's also interesting is how we are thinking about, you know, being a little bit leaner as a business as well when we think about testing. you know, historically when you feel like you have a build that's good enough for soft launch, you just kind of you run with it and you you know, you just constantly try different UA and you see what you can do there. But, you know, we're also trying to be a little bit more like try to operate more like a startup um and and really think about

like what what are we actually trying to prove? And so like what's the budget needed and like what what KPIs are we looking for? You know, is it a day seven rorowass? Is it like uh is it a you know day seven conversion and arpoo and how many how much users how many users do we need like do we really need to kind of have that as an always a turned on faucet versus like can we just you know be very bespoke about what we're actually going for. Yeah. So, so like soft launch as a concept is something that we're also thinking internally about like what does it even mean nowadays to really do soft launch and then when you have a game that you can actually get real rowass from like you believe that you can get ROI then it's you know is that is that even soft launch is that just low scale and then you do a scaling test in a specific market etc. So, you know, we haven't fully explained exactly how we're going to tackle this, but we are trying to rethink a little bit what what that means.
Yeah. I mean, like the soft launch means very different things for different companies. I mean, for you especially, it's going to be very different than for any other gaming company. A it's Angry

Birds in Roio. So, I mean, you already have you're going to have some
organic
fan base and then yeah, like the like skewed numbers. But even even before going global and the movie is released, you still need to have some kind of KPIs on the different scale just to be able to see what you can expect and even if you don't do in the US or under market. But I guess like the monopoly go strategy would be very much in place because then you need to conquer one country to see what kind of snowball effect you can get from basically having everybody in the in the country and then like they're playing with their friends because then you can understand like what is the difference between players playing with friends and what's what's the KPIs and how much improvement it can get
which you can then afterwards kind of take into the global launch strategy. So
yeah it's a great it's a great point. I mean we we traditionally will do like a Philippines or whatever just for tech test you know is it broken is it not broken um and then and then we run normally a different country and then

when we're looking at rorowass there's always the great debate of should we just go to the US directly um and then at that stage can you even call it a soft launch because you're already exactly market but you do bring up a great point about what what Ben sorry what Stan was saying earlier about how important the social loops are and you know you need to get to a certain level of scale in a specific region to really get the KPI read on that. So yeah, something we'll definitely look at when we plan um the next steps for this project, but uh we'll be sure to make those of you guys.
Yeah. Yeah. I think we all uh we'll uh wrap it up very very soon. But still, I mean, Felix had like few questions about ad revenue, but honestly, I don't see this game having ad placements.
Yeah, there goes Felix with ad revenue.
Yeah,
this is a this is a game that um you know, this is good. You know, the genre is AP genre.
Exactly. It's an IP genre and and that's how we're approaching it. Um, and I think generally speaking like Roio Romeo games um have material ad revenue, but we're still an IP based free-to-play um

business. So, you know, while the ad revenue is material, IP is really what moves what drives our business. And then on top of that, what we're seeing is a bit of a trend where especially the top games are are are not having I ads in their games. Now there's some that are like I think you guys mentioned uh I think is it coin master secretly doing it in certain markets or whatever. So for certain markets it might make sense you know the Indas of the world but but what I think in the like US and and and other markets like that at the end of the day like what we really want to do is we want to protect the users that we that we get right and so there's a little bit something ironic about you know hey spending a ton of money on acquiring users finding these really high valuable users and then start showing them games of our competitors right so it's a little bit you know and and the reality is like ad we know that ads and other games work well from a user acquisition standpoint meaning people react and go to new games. Um, it's something internally from a roia

perspective where we're actually thinking strategically about what what's what's our what does our future look like in that because again we have a material ad revenue business but at the same time retention is more of the name of the game going forward and so it's something we're really figuring out at the moment but at at the end of the day this game specifically in this genre we're going to live and die by if if doesn't work add revenue like whatever. Yeah, it's most probably just going to add like 10 15% on top of it on top of the IIP revenue and yeah, is it okay? Yeah, cool.
Just uh let me just kind of frame it I guess for the finish here. Uh like what what we're actually looking at and what's the genre. So of course we have the monopoly go coin master sitting on the blog here. Uh doing
genre I mean all those two games right there.
Yeah. All those two that's that's that's the kicker here that all those two games is not really all those two games because we have the entrance as we talk about here because we have the
let's say the second iteration which is stuff like animals and coins uh fish of fortune my home world and like these coin looter games. Where's the car one?

Yeah, here it is. Where again we already got this kind of like additional different core on the on boarding and and the ads to kind of sync that up. And then we have the high LTV uh engine meta which is the coin master/ monopoly go one. And then we have these again even more aggressive kind of entrance such as stop tycoon carnival tycoon. And the last one isn't even here which is the Sunday city from kafir which literally has like GTA city in the front
and then in the back end is basically con master meta also. They they are kind of I guess quite scaled now. Something like
Yeah. But if you look at top top tycoon is
Yeah.
So this this this idea didn't really nice try. But
yeah, but again uh I'm guessing that like this kind of a pack will be the main thing to kind of break through. And then the question is if it can like attack the top three which is that's the billion dollar question. Are you I mean

obviously you're aiming to to get to that like first two spots but I mean realistically realistically what what's the assumption?
We'll be happy if uh we'll be happy if we hit dice streams but our ambition is very clearly to to to to be up there with Monopoly and going coin master. It's how we think about things ambitiously at ROIO. We haven't had historically a game at that scale in the freeto play side of things. Um, you know, Angry Birds 2 has been our biggest game. Um, and it still is. Um, and that's more the 100 million or so mark. So, you know, we have, you know, we we have big ambitions. I know Stan has very big ambitions, but um, so yeah, let's say
that's the spirit. That's the spirit.
Say J streams would be a would be a decent success, but but we love to be, you know, we really focus on trying to be much bigger than that.
That's what I want to say.
Anything you want?
Anything you want to say? Web revenue. Oh yeah. This episode is

brought to you by Fastpring, the no drama D2C partner that's been scaling with mobile publishers for over 20 years. They're fast growing, profitable, and seriously reliable, which is more than you can say about most vendors in this space. Anyway, whether you're launching a new web store, replacing your current D system, or adding a backup plan, Fast Spring is here for you. Visit fastpring.gg to set up your web store today. Fastpring.gg. Hello, Fastpring. Thank you very much, guys, for sponsoring [clears throat] this episode.
Can add something to that? Actually, it's um I have one life goal right now. When I created Asphalt franchise, know it's like the biggest racing franchise in the world. It's 1.7 billion installed. So, I got that going for me, but that's not

enough. What I want to do is billion dollar games now. So, my mind is 100% of the time dedicated to finding a way to to make that happen. And that's why we actually, you know, like we're very happy to work with Bravo because we are in a very unique situation. We have the expertise on like battle. We know to make games that are like hugely successful because we we simply read, you know, like the the market. I've been doing that for 25 years. It's just part of my my my life. And we have the biggest mobile IP which which exists which is familyfriendly which is absolutely perfect because we can attract older parents and eventually they can play with with their young if they want. Then we have um the most efficient meta that exists today which is you know like the L battle meta is absolutely perfect for a lot of reason we have not discussed today but there is a lot of good things about it. And then we have a runner visual which has like the the highest audience possible on the

the the cheapest CPI. Everyone with lighting, you know, like in term of advertising, they use this type of visual with the camera going forward and and stuff like this.
Yeah. You add gates on top of this and you're fine.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But maybe we have maybe we have gate in another prototype. You don't know. But basically it's it's too exciting. We are in a very unique situation. So of course you know like nothing is guaranteed. It's up to us to to make it work. But we are in a good let's say um we have reason to be optimistic and we we we just have to prove ourel we are able to to pull it off. But if I if with Roio we we pull this off, it's going to be a game changer because it's going to create like a a very interesting game for the next 10 years and I will be like super super happy to see uh to see one of my game you know like getting above the the billion dollar mark of revenue and a small stuff you know like on the number you were showing us sensor toward

doesn't account for direct to consumer revenue.
Yes, it doesn't. Right.
Yeah. The reality is the market is actually way way way way bigger for for Napoli.
On Napoli go has his tycoon club. We expect something like north of 20% plus definitely flowing to that. Midcore friends have 50% already. So even more as you say.
Yeah, it's definitely there.
Yeah, we know. We know. And that's like that's also like the biggest part of the of the the strategy and the revenue. Honestly, I when I'm kind of looking at you and you talk about the game and then the vibe is amazing and I've and we don't even know the numbers and you know the numbers and you're like, "Yeah, this is going to be good." I could see it on your faces. So, I'm really looking forward to actually like see the well see it out and worldwide and then you know we talk again [laughter] we talk again because it's very exciting. I have something I can tell you about that. The prototype is very early. So like we are not reading day 30 stuff like this. But there is one thing we are absolutely obsessed with is

the retry rate. When someone play one round, is it going to do another one? And basically for a game to be successful, of course you need the highest number of people who are actually retrying. And the question is how fast people are are retrying close to 100%. And for this game, it's quite actually quite impressive. better than most of the stuff I ever seen. When you do a run, you absolutely want to do a run, another run, but right from the start. So, basically, your curve of finel is very, very flat. So,
nice. Okay.
Yeah. So,
that's the difficulty tinkering right there. Like that that's the expertise.
Yeah. Thanks. I just want to thank you guys for for having us. Um like on our end, we we're very ambitious about this project. Um, you know, we're looking for we're looking for people to come join this hopefully rocket ship.
Nice.
And, you know, especially on the game economy side, game systems design, things like that, which at the end of the day are fundamental to this genre.

So, you know, if you've worked on uh if you've worked on Monopoly Go, if you worked on Coin Master on Dice Dreams or or one of these games, like hit me up, hit standup, hit anybody up at ROIO or at
OB. Yeah,
we're looking to have you guys uh become a a member of our rocket ship. So, please please do
your podcast is an ad.
No, no, no, no, no. I I wanted to ask like if you want to share something with the audience, which is exactly what you just did, please. Perfect. And then we'll put I guess your contact details or any like links in the show notes so that everybody can can reach reach out to you and then just build this.
Yeah.
Oh, thanks guys. like really this was amazing and uh I'm looking in I'm looking forward. So, thank you.
Thanks guys. Thanks.