A 2020 Vision for XR: is this the Year AR & VR Break Through? | PGC Digital #1

this is the round table about XR so official title 2020 vision for XR is this the year AR and VR breakthrough we're also going to be talking about a bit of mr because i know some of us are interested in that space and work there as well but first of all we'll introduce ourselves my name is and we'll be hosting this panel and as alluded to earlier i also did a podcast earlier please do check it out it was very fun to do and then we go around the room so based on who is on my list kelly you can go first I'm from so real we're based in Byrnes hello and tell us a bit about so real as well because I feel like some people may not know what what it is exactly the et and then we have currently the fastest solution on the planet for making digital twins so whatever you put in at

one end comes out the other and it's game engine ready and it's just ready for you to use awesome thank you very much just you can go next yep some Josh Naylor I'm developer technology engineer a magic leap as part of the developer relations team so developer relations is obviously helping developers get onto the platform helping them on board until device and the Stan what mixed reality and spatial computing is in designing for it and and working with Tommy's team as well so they've they've shifts to magic leap application so far which is great excellent and Tommy I'm sure you need no introduction but if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself so my name is Tony Barton I'm the CEO and co-founder of resolution games which is a V or an A or video game developer I've been working primarily with with mobile video games

throughout my career but for fast five and a half years I've been focusing on on virtual reality augmented reality excellent and we do have another panelist who is supposed to join us at some point hopefully she and we can introduce her then but for now I do have questions sort of directed that I think for certain people might be interested in but I just if you want to join in any time please do just start talking after it will take it as a sort of free-for-all from there but I just wanted to start we're going to be looking at the 2020 market is this year 4xr and that kind of thing but I think it's always important to look back I've been set some context first so how was 2019 for the exile market across a our vrm are all the all the realities anybody feel free to dive in on that one go on Josh I mean it was very mixed I think it was it was very mixed so if you think of kind of separate into high-end and low-end via high-end wise obvious

who got the riff des launched in March the quest in May and both for those products I'm especially the quest actually I was standing I think they did something like 180,000 units and q3 of last year which is insane right for VR right now and I know we've been saying is you see your VR and they are for about six years now I think since 2014 and I think it's at the point now were a standalone very consumer ready at a decent price point unit is there it's basically it's a VR console you could say now it's plug in and play you've got it ready and and now we're just waiting for amazing content like that the hardware is finally here a good price point for consumers and it's great on the other hand I think a lot of people have shunned low-end via you know the oculus go you had a lot of mobile stuff and it's took in a massive

massive drop 360 videos people are very tenant the nose at that now and I think it can still be very engaging content like if you it's a big divide between people who are really into it and then people who are not all so we still I think I still need it in some ways for user education for getting it out there to people but again we've seen a massive downturn in that song I think what 2019 did is kinda offered is that sort of cusp between what you just talked about Josh and the direction that we're going in now so it's kind of like I don't really want to say this weird on there unrecorded but the go and 360 etc it's been a bit of a gateway drug for people to sort of go mmm well dip a toe in the water see whether it's really what we want to do and then would kind of go for it I think on my side I've definitely seen a heck of a lot of volume in terms of new Studios new businesses new ideas

and people really wanting to make a bit more of a difference in 2019 and so hopefully in 2020 I mean I don't want to preempt what we're going to look forward to but definitely will start see a bit more diversity because we're really lacking that kind of diversity in terms of content I think we're starting to get there now we're starting to move away from sort of horror VRA our experiences etc and starting to move towards more sort of immersive more story driven not saying the horrors and bit more room of touchy-feely type stuff that we kind of only dipped our toe into the water yeah I know I'm a very ugly over stuff it's very Arkady or very gimmicky and it's becoming more mature now I think yeah ami there's any any thoughts on 2019 market well with previous speakers there I think for for from our studio point of

view the quest was fantastic it's the first time when we're seeing good retention numbers so we've typically seen with the other handsets that they sell people buy the game they like it but they don't stay on the platform they turn out they sell their heads up in the second month or or just leave it in their closet with the quest that hasn't happened at all people stay in it like Chris there in the background that's that's very very encouraging we have resolution games have massive growth in sales numbers due to that so so on games like Angry Birds and we released game called a Crone attack of the squirrels they've been doing super well and we're seeing not only from for a long time we have they're kind of V or enthusiasts target audience

which is often male IT experts people working with VR or wanting to work with VR but now we're seeing more much more families and people playing with friends which is great that's that's where we need to go yeah I feel like we're really hitting kind of like a weak moment where previously people who play games all the time were just console players you know hardcore gamers and when the we came around it was more of a family thing people shared it and people shared their experiences and then with the quest again like Tommy said you passing it around and you're enjoying it more together in families in social situations because it is so easy it's more accessible I'd also say as well that the players in mobile AR are really putting a big force behind as well if you look at Apple and Google releasing a our core and AR kit you know that

they're really pushing it with their marketing they're they're bringing it to the forefront of the keynotes and improving the technical ID are scanning that they're really pushing that that tech which is great like it means that it's more accessible on the mobile i afferent as well just it's really exciting yeah finally Apple has like got behind something and they're really gonna go for it and we're all really gonna get excited and then maybe they're gonna pull the rug out from under our feet I hope not I really do speaking of mobile IO we've just been joined by Christina hey hello if you could just quickly introduce yourself and thought fish and also we've just been talking about the 2019 market for XR if you have any any thoughts on how that's the 2019 was for AR that would be great as well okay yes so thank you and sorry for just

joining me now it looks like you couldn't find me and I've been in the cult from the beginning but now I'm here so okay yes we are so what we're doing is we are working in the real world they are space so hot pitch was finally with the vision that how awesome it would be that every game could be influenced by the real world so in order to make this happen we created a technology which is called koala like the koala bear it means context-aware location assessment and this is a software as a service solution where you can find any kind of real data point soviet geolocation whether in face prime transportation heights whatever is out there you can find at our platform and use it to change the gameplay and it doesn't only have to be visuals it can be any kind of features so imagine a farming game where it starts raining on your farm because it's raining outside and the thing with crops or stuff like

that and we are also the developing games on that to show what can be done in the real world genre so we are not strictly a re so it's not only about visuals that we're really thinking that AR can be really fantastic if we start not only thinking about visuals but also thinking about letting the real world influence what's happening inside of your app cool and did you have any thoughts about 2019 for AR sorry yeah so so we had so we are looking from from a bit of a different perspective because of our real-world approach so on the one hand side it was it was a really fascinating year on the other hand lots of expectation we're not met so when we're thinking about wizards unite for example people have so high hopes for for the title to to show that

the real world ara is a genre which can repeat success like Pokemon go and so far when we look at titles the tremendous success everyone was expected to English the next big IP title never happened it's not a really fair comparison because I personally think that nothing can compare to the success of Pokemon go and expecting that it's a bit too much but we still didn't didn't see the proof that this is this is working repeatedly I personally think that it will but it also needs changes when it comes to how people build that kind of games and what to use and on the other hand 2019 was very interested thing and exciting year especially for us because we have seen when it comes to the seeing developers using using real-world happenstances for their apps we have seen a tremendous influx of

developers who were just waiting for such so technology and people really jumping on it and really wanting to develop something and everything this stuff which is developed is so different from what we would have experienced that this is a we this was a really exciting year cool thank you very much and so we kind of touched a bit as everyone's talking about 2019 on your predictions for 2020 and how the markets gonna change and grow I was kind of wondering like obviously that's the you know we're only a couple of months into the year but the world has changed massively thanks to the corona virus pandemic and that kind of thing have your predictions for the future for this year changed all due to the to the sort of pandemic or as you still all sort of in the belief that things in the in AR and VR and M are are still gonna change and grow in the same way you always felt they would I think rose because we're kind of that we offer

service so I think for us guys the coronavirus really is just put front and center in terms of workload because you guys are all working from home you you've already got your workflows and pipelines in place and your des source carrying on kind of as you are there certain number of developers who are finding it quite difficult to make that transition but a lot of guys that are involved in VR and AR and M are especially where completely flat out in terms of em are because museums are desperate for us to scanning their artifacts and they want us to really take a hold of and help them to kind of visualize the entire online you know marketplace for them because it's very lucrative and they want to be doing it now so for us we've had to really sort a ramp or a lot of the things that we do you see a x-ray related so you can get

the real sort of Superman vision you can see inside things you can go inside stuff so I'm doing everything from planning raves inside a piece of sushi to doing stuff over museums London yeah Visio is great keep it up it's massively accelerated any predictions anyone could have had because of the situation right like like Tommy said retention is a massive thing like people using the headset daily or weekly with by themselves or with their families it's just screen time basically like how much screen camp time can we get people into the headset and sales as well like we've seen many developers come out now saying they've and millions from from VR I like VR games like you know super hot over the Christmas period 7 days 2 million I think it was there's this half-life which is at 48,000 concurrent players all at once this you know a few

of us have announced like million sales in that in weeks which is great and it's down to players now have the time to go back to those systems daily or weekly and spend their money in notes so it's been it's bits accelerated everything which is great and photos that magically pits it's been amazing because you know our big thing is about being Co presence and collaboration and communication in different areas of the world all at the same time and now I can be in my living room with Holograms of colleagues all around the world and talk to them in a specialized environment cool I wanna I think there's one thing that is negative about this crisis and that's the several obviously but but from a V or point of view hardware is not shipping the way it's supposed to so we'll see a delay in the

market due to that but other than that I said previously we see more sales and more people acted on the devices because their home for the for the ones who already have it but when it comes to the quest the the sale cycle has been slow because it has been sold out in many places in the world so in in Sweden see in the background there hasn't been a big sale of the quest or we don't have magic leaps here so we look forward to to some some hardware also from the development perspective the coronavirus really is slowing down the development process as I said before so that's a problem because there's Tommy just said you know the sales are affected by the development so if there's no content and there's nothing there so you actually need studios tonight

just go flat-out crazy and just make stuff just find a way to do it because we need those sales to keep that VR and AR M are sort of general excellent high and up otherwise again we lose again against other market forces Animal Crossing so we've gotta keep going yeah when's that when's animal crossing in VR gonna happen that's that's the dream that's gotta be the next big thing surely next idea for you Tommy I think sorry if I'm a thing is a little bit different or the AR it's feared that the real they are because all these products they baby on people being outside and experiencing the outside and this is now completely breaking away I think this the soul crisis has won one benefit to this sphere I mean we see a lot of updates

coming for these kind of games where features are pushed which allow people to play more from home and maybe having having a feature of which draws draws the content to their place or maybe give them something to walk without being without actually walking and I think that these kind of features really benefit these kinds of games because we have seen apart from Pokemon go that players really don't like to walk so they don't want to be so it's ok to work because everyone works some places but people don't want to be hindered in progression so they don't want to be blocked by the game dictating that you now have to go outside to do this and that and so the one thing we are learning right now in that sphere is that if you want to create a really cool game then the being outside the walking there having the world influence your game is an add-on so it's on top it

gives you extra perks instead of being the base for your gameplay and this is something where the games are restructured right now due to the corner virus and this is very interesting from a game design inspector hmm yeah absolutely um well I could have answered one of my questions about revenues and engagement and stuff obviously those that those are improving and I kind of want to go back to so we was sort of talking about what kind of genres of games or genres the games that are now evolving like what what do you think is is going to be important in AR and VR especially now you consider that people are spending more time inside so location-based AI was changing is that going to affect the kind of games we see and was saying about horror games that are they going away like what can we expect in terms of games from from this year that you think are going to be big serving to everybody I was like start I think something that I

been very excited about all along his online games and more persistence and I think that's one of the great opportunities with both V or and a art actually if you have this sense of presence and be able to meet and interact with on people there is very meaningful but as long as the market been so immature and so small it's been very hard to do that so one of the big folks on from our studios been to to make sure that we get more social experiences together cool I'd agree completely like 100% I think you know persistence permitting we've got to be in a position where we can really drive the hardware and software elements towards more social footing and a social basis and me personally I'm a big RPG fan I want to do more RPG in exile I

think it's like vitally important for us to be able to go down the road of total immersion and total storytelling is not about riding roller coasters or being in survival Horrors for me it's more about witnessing feeling touching and being more tactile in the environments that being created by these amazing developers yeah yeah the completely agree just more mature content like everything is being very mini game as kind of a lot of replayable content now you just get better as time goes on because it's being fast and easy for developers to make like most in development studios pretty less than ten people that were making stuff in VR where now we're seeing bigger teams working on our more immersive better engaging content and like Tommy said more social stuff like I just checked VR meet meet up right now on steam stats like twelve thousand people playing like I had a call scheduled and someone said

hey do you want to hang out in in VR track instead instead of a meeting and instead of a zoom call and sort of a hangouts so those type of engagements are going to start happening more and more and more and that's what we grow right that's there's the whole point of social is that people coming together and one person might suggest it to five other people and then you all in there together mm-hmm yeah I think that this also applies to to a are or we world a are so being more mature having having different mechanisms going away from more or less treasure-hunting so in one place click something maybe using that in a fight so exploring other other genres so exploring completely of the mechanisms and giving a deeper and more immersive gameplay is something we have to see and yeah and also not only using like having having the phone here holding it and then seeing something something on your desk there's so much more to it I think

with with a are you still see that that you're totally at the beginning making great things happen and I think that that we were learning so much from the different approaches at this point that I think that this year probably more next year we will see some really amazing stuff where people start thinking out of the box and not the I mean everything you see was so so I mean that was the natural fit but we have seen on the market so far in now now it looks now we have to look for the for the gems and for the new stuff no one really has thought about and this is I think also the beauty about AI or X I or VR that this is an area where we can explore completely new types of games but it takes time to explore yeah I agree I think a lot of the games previously were just ports or using existing IP and there was never built for that platform hey look at half-life now it's it's one of the biggest IPs in

games and they've done it VR only and it's also about how we're broadcasting now how people are figuring out ways to broadcast VR na our content like I said there was 40,000 people at peak playing half-life and there's 300,000 people watching on twitch and it's the first time switch should ever feature the VR game on the front page so that type of again people are now watching people play VR and and it's it's like with the the last panel was about eSports like how we can turn eSports into like a VR watching experience or watching other people play VR eSports as well I just want to chime in there I think I think that's a very good point but it's a developer's very frustrating because you're like V or has to na or has to be experienced and watching it from a phone on flat screen it looks like looks like an old PC game right kind of conveyed a fantastic

feeling or feeling when you're playing new half-life and it feels like the future this is so I hope we soon get to a place where people will figure out the way to get 10 cents on everybody yeah of course yeah I mean of those 300,000 people watching on twitch right hopefully 10% then pick up ahead so afterwards right are they they hear the player like wow this is unbelievable and they sell it to them it's like the influencer so I was actually a question I know we talked about half-life Alex quite a bit actually one of my questions was sort of thinking about that like has do you think it's gonna have like a huge impact on the VR market is it going is this the game there's always there's always the talk of like when a console comes out when it has the killer app like it is half-life Alex the killer app for VR or are we still sort of waiting until we see something else at this

point on something to push a few people a few more people to buy I think it's a it's a great production it's like a proper game I love that Valve did that you know a lot of people waiting for the next half-life and the ear it comes and it's exclusively for VR yeah and you have a chance to experience something in a new way that you couldn't releasing a new half-life on on PC would we extremely difficult to kind of take it to that next step I think the killer app of 2020 I think you know a lot of developers have now start up and taking notice of how serious you know the direction is that we're going in and one of the things that we're really excited about of course having sort of played half-life Alex and and working in the realm that we work in is being able to finally get rid of that

uncanny valley and really putting by putting real things I think one of the things that I said on Twitter all the time when I saw screenshots from r5 Alex and then when I played it myself was why can't it's gonna be real why can't this be real why isn't this you know I am in it I want to be touching it I want to be near it I want to feel it and I need to have that connection and we're still not there in terms of that connection but we're getting it a damn sight closer than we ever were before it compared to 2019 half-life alex has opened so many doors for developers and so we've got to keep going in that direction yeah it's a giant giant stepping stone I think the highest vr concurrent game as of last year was beat Sabre about 4,000 people at one time and then bone works that was released recently like eight and a half thousand people concurrent getting good goodish numbers and then yeah half-life blow of what were 42,000 I still don't think it's the killer app I think it's

like I said a huge stepping stone a huge killer app is dota or counter-strike you know stuff that people are going to come back to all the time like League of Legends like it's the type of multiplayer constant like like the iteration loop of playing coming on every day or every week to play it but you're gonna play half-life a few times but you're not going to come back and play all the time are you saying Final Fantasy 7 really making VR like World of Warcraft's to come on VR only that'd be that'd be really good that would be incredible and also it's a while we're on the topic of VR and what sort of like driving the market I'm hugely interested in the oculus quest it seems to me like that's kind of where VR has been working towards is that kind of stand-alone headset that's the whole console and I'm desperate to buy one

that don't have enough money and now they sold out but it's like how important has that overall been to the VR market and is we is that where developers should be focusing their attention is that where the market is going towards or is it just still another part of the overall VR scape I guess anybody at all yeah well my opinion is we're still still very early day so we are I think for me the quest is the first the first decent headset that is solving a lot of the issues like when I now finally took time to to play new half-life Alex I took me a really long time to get it started diverse and I don't know what the problem was I'm a computer scientist and I've been working with games all my life and I just couldn't figure out what was matter with

and why it didn't work but finally I got to work but so many kind of regular gamers would be super super frustrated by that process of getting it started I think that's one of the great innovations with a VR only help set like the quest for you there is no drivers that needs to be updated just put it on go I would like to picture and because I I still believe that the right product is still the bet we're the right game is still the better driver then and you VR set so I have the pleasure of working working with the team really fantastic people working in the VR space but very very high level and also creating their own hardware which is not shippable which is not mass production but it's what you can do if you just if you have

all the time and good resources on your hand and you can create really spectacular it spectacular we are set and the difference is is incredible so we are it will still take us a long way until we have have havehad said which is which is so comfortable to wear which has such a super-duper resolution which is but just fantastic so it will still take us time to be there so I don't I personally don't believe that it's the next generation which is which is really pushing but it's the next product it's it's what what we have seen so your question was half-life so that is a much better driver because people people will want to do that people will not only want to have new glasses and for us to research and development one of the most important things is six degrees of freedom and that is really pushing research and development for us we have

created a demo where you know by using 60 keys of freedom we can now smash things we can really get quite a lot out of physical objects now that we couldn't before on previous headsets and with previous devices and when really being able to do both in in the physics side in AR and also in VR as well so it's very exciting for us to be able to ride alongside you know the technological developments that are happening now and that are coming as well but for me the most exciting thing over the last kind of three or four years has been the development of six degrees of freedom and I think we can really go even further cool so we'll go off VR for a bit and I just want to touch on mixed reality and that kind of thing for a bit so Josh prepare yourself this is all going to start heading towards you initially at least so obviously mix reality there are games

for it it is becoming a gaming platform but I I personally would still argue that it's more of an enterprise thing at the moment I mean first of all is that true and does is the are we gonna see like it growing quickly into becoming a popular gaming platform this year or is it can take a few years or you know what what do you see is like the the road for gaming in mr yeah I mean for me right now it's we magically pers worked with developers creators artists game developers all sorts of people to make really immersive content in spatial computing right but we know that the headset price the headset where it is right now is not suited for consumers it's not suited for game developed like game players who want to play regularly and the market isn't Asian therefore that so that's why we are focusing on enterprise you know we're working on solutions to to enable

co-presence and collaboration and training and healthcare but we have funded games we funded that will fund resolution we've worked on them with Angry Birds and glimpse we've done above everything that the main area that we want to push in a consumer or a gaming senses location-based experiences obviously that's not gone too well in the current situation but you know we're working it's in the UK with Factory 42 that I've got a massive big innovate UK grand for the Natural History Museum and the Science Museum working the Royal Shakespeare Company on location based things for them feel like Miss Midsummer Night's Dream so we still want to take the technology to consumers to allow them to experience what the future will bring whether that's in five years or ten years I the device is going to get smaller and more powerful and more accessible but yeah overall like games

are such an amazing medium to show off the technology the first thing that I give people is angry birds as soon as I give them magically for my triangle Birds it's so good because it's so obvious and easy and game developers as a whole just know how to onboard players a lot better than enterprise applications and it's more fun and engaging and the colors are great and the birds hilarious so the games are a great platform for educating and teach people how to use the technology cool Tommy you've been developing Emma the aforementioned Angry Birds believe was one of yours do you have any anything to add yeah well I really thank you for praise the the team worked really hard on making Angry Birds kind of true to to its original design it was it was one of these games on mobile that was very easy to understand and had its really made good use of the touch

mechanics the angle versus we did for magic was a quite small project but like my my old time friend our CTO was was working very hard with that people to try to make an experience that would be both kind of utilizing that's the spatial environment a little bit at the same time as being very easy to to get into and understand what you're doing so I think that's always a challenge it's very easy to see a new platform and and kind of think two or three steps ahead and forget how difficult it is for it for somebody who's new to that platform to figure out how to like what is the difference between trigger button and the menu button that brings you out into the operating system again and then they're totally gone and we had we had

several journalist meetings when we were showing it when people said like I don't like Angry Birds or I don't like magically if I already wrote my review and they came in and it checked it out and they changed their mind completely and said oh you know by the way this is amazing and that because it was such a kind of simple experience to get into I think now I do believe that that a or further online like the important stuff there it's gonna be the things that enhance me makes me Robocop half human half cyborg helps this like memory come power really quickly figuring out being able to work with other people in real time these sort of things that's gonna can't make humans go to the next step in our evolution but but games is gonna

help figuring out a lot of these stuff on the way like how do we do standard interface in a good way so people understand where to press them how to go on to the next six sigma very simple stuff cool I'm just looking I've hardly worked out where the Q&A panel is on our thing we do have a couple of questions that have been sent in so like so just quickly dive into those are never coming up again it's time but it'd be interesting so we've got one here a panel of investors yesterday said they were collectively holding back on AR and VR suggesting it's not as attractive as it was so with this in mind where is the investment going to come from for both large and small game development anybody feel free to fiddle at once I can start I have some experience with raising money in the space I think you

know venture capitalists and investors are very much herd mentality and they want to right now it's AI that's the big that's where you want to put your money I think that there is great investments to be made in this space but it is difficult to like it is going to take a lot of money because you have a very new type of platform and as was said previously by akeli a new type of experiences it's not going to be iterations of classical video games it's gonna make it's gonna be completely new type of stuff that we haven't seen before and that's that is expensive so as an investor it's good to be a little bit cautious I think right now we're seeing and the platform owners like magic leap and oculus putting them quite a bit of money into content development I think that's part

of where that money is going to have to be coming from like I think like you have some grants for instance I know UK has grants I think you're gonna be entrepreneurial and come gifts a little bit from here and a little bit from there in order to to new music so I think you're offering games as a service if you offer in enterprise platforms you're always going to come up against these issues where the big question from the VCS is going to be how are you gonna pass the cost on to the end user and one of the important things that we can't do in this space is we can't make this both more expensive than it currently is if anything we've got to work the opposite and so one of the ways to be able to do that is to use the available technology that we have and as Tommy said you know use these grants I'm on usually on you

can find me in the European Commission for video games I'm on the panel there every year and one of the things that we find is that and we've always got spaces open to be able to support people in prototypes you know it's wrong for venture capitalists to sort of say well we're not going to kind of invest in AR and VR this year when you look at the hardware developers really are putting a lot of money behind these devices we were just talking about Apple earlier they've really going crazy because they want you is the end user to be able to use their own device and use their platform to be able to scan and do all the stuff that game development companies are doing anyway it's just that you're not there yet because you're the end user you're riding the wave and we need to make sure that we just don't pass that cost on to the end user Apple might but I think getting developers generally will not hopefully and certainly device developers shouldn't either yeah I've certainly seen over the past year three four years all the hardware

platforms done a pretty good job in investing in content we've quite a lot of money to hand out to the right people and recently it's most the tooling that has been getting the acquisitions or getting the funding you know like 68 I just got by I bought mine in the antic I think Facebook bought scape technologies as well at geolocation Apple was talking about you know the rumors about next VR IKEA Group just bought a eye imaging startup so all of those toolings for the content is is doing pretty well and yeah I guess the the government's as well have done a pretty good job in getting out there and giving like you know series air funding for a lot of startups it's that I think it's the middle between those that's the big problem you know like it's easy to maybe get 50 to 200 K but how do you get 500 K to a million and that's where a

lot of people are struggling I think I think I totally agree with Josh so I think it's it will be hard to raise funds or for the next AR game or the art game or whatever it is at this point but when you're working on the and on the other side so on the technology provider side or two sides so that you can can have easier ways of creating new forms of content that is a completely different different thing so saying here in Germany we also see a lot of different kinds of sponsorships or the you European Union offers stuff like that and again the acquisition dimensions are something to take me serious cool take another question from the Q&A as well because I think this one's very interesting indeed and it leads into what I'm going to hopefully be my final question because I know we're gonna close to 7 o'clock is it so

is it about time we start talking about AR without saying and VR and vice-versa is it time we separate them the two are different experiences and most of the time different hardware and if we if so how do we educate ourselves to do that this is something I'm really have strong feelings for because I have been raiding onstage for years now telling people that we stop talking about a are in VR or there are so many so many working groups and and conferences who are talking about a VR and in truth I mean VR and AR and we are not doing a really great job and differentiating the two things I mean there are totally different different technologies you have other prerequisites you have a different gameplay do you have different ways of monetization it is these are two very

separate things I mean at some point at some point we will be going more and more in the future into the mixed reality thing but as of now we really really should talk about these things differently because you cannot I mean we have seen this today as well you cannot answer a question a question you are asking will always be answer it completely different when you look from the AR perspective or from the VR perspective these are two different things and why not label them correctly on the toss perspective it's all very relevant to us that we you know turn our attention the way that we do between a or via mr and we try to just you know catch all as XR the AR is like super important and again it's a really good place to get started and it's a really good place to as Christina said

meet with groups on there there are a lot of people that are developing for they are they're doing some incredible stuff it's not just about Google Tiger in Google search for an animal it's also about the other stuff Microsoft are working with 8th wall we're working with Microsoft as well on 8 walls and a our program there's some really great stuff that's happening but again the problem that we've got is the mobile phones that were using in the AR technology that were using it's becoming obsolete too quickly it's becoming like you know I got a really great phone last year I've gotta get another new phone now because I need that device optimization to be able to make everything with my phone so it's the devices that are really driving the technology once again and that is making people a little bit sort of uptight about oh well surely it's going to be cheaper for me to just buy an oculus well no I mean you get totally different experience if you're looking at stuff through the iPads but then if you're looking at stuff through an Android and if you looking at stuff

through where oculus so horses for courses in it but we've got to keep being evangelical and we've got to keep like driving this home because otherwise you know we're just going to be stuck in a mainstream loop like constantly when no content is going to be created no one's going to be doing anything and developments not going to get made yeah everybody else thoughts on undermining the entire idea of this socket general I do think that it's they are different things sometimes and sometimes they're the same like they share a lot of the same underlying technology as a video game developer some of the stuff we can reuse like we when we made Angry Birds for magically we emulated it in VR which showed us that we could make a great VR game outlets so we did but and going

forward looking like 10 or 15 years into the future I think it's going to be same device does both beorin and they are in some occasions but right now yes I think other conferences might benefit from from deep diving into a or technology I think AR is super super interesting and there's a lot of things that's gonna happen there eventually but it's a little bit further down the line I think one of the interesting thing with this talk is that there is stuff happening right now but we can act on as developers and them as consumer you very soon be able to participate yeah I agree I can be the same in some ways and completely opposite in others I think the main thing I take away from it

especially in game dev conferences is that a lot of people see them as the same and game developers are generally at the forefront of the new design processes like they're always thinking about what's different about this platform and how can we adapt that to our design and the amount of enterprise companies I encounter that don't really understand that I don't know how to onboard a player or to make use of the hardware and I just say find a game developer and they'll be able to do that for you as quickly as anything because we're used to you know changing Hardware all the time we're used to different players understanding how to bore people how they consume the technology so it's it's it's always great to to have game developers at the forefront of this technology because they can do amazing things with it and just a sort of wrap

up and talk point back to something that Tommy was saying about everything going to end up on the same device I mean are we is is it are we soon going to see because the so the talks I've heard and the things I've heard is it's kind of at some point everything will be on the same device and the worlds of arv are NMR or can I kind of blur together and you'll have all that just on like a pair of glasses or I saw somebody saying there's going to be a chip installed in your brain and that's gonna do it and they were very serious about it so I'm excited to have that installed in my brain is that something that is definitely going to happen are these gonna remain separate technologies with different capabilities forever always is it all just gonna to merge into one big XR thing I I think it's it's very clear to me at least when you think about what what a pair of glasses that has a computer attached to it and then the

internet can do two to your life if it's there all the time and can context to be contextually aware of everything that's around you that that's something that we're gonna work one we're all time so we're heading into that future those magic glasses and I don't know how long it's gonna take I think it's gonna be several small component I think what they call ear your Apple efforts efforts airports thank you or a good first step when you have something that's very comfortably there and you can talk to in the hasp to help you do certain stuff so I think it's gonna kind of be divided into several components for it for some time cool I mean it is I think it's or in in

my view that's also clear that a art cannot cannot be the way we are using a are right now so if you're if you're thinking about using your mobile phone to holding it all the time in front of your face to see the AR visuals I mean this is the most uncomfortable thing you can do this is totally stupid so if we would have had the opportunity to change that we would have changed that and I personally also think that glasses are okay for everyone who already wears glasses but for people who are so lucky that the eyesight is still so good that you don't need glasses it will be a big hindrance to wear this these things on your nose because they are heavy sometimes your ears hurt and so there will be the wish for contact lenses or the chip if it's in your brain we don't know maybe somewhere else or if it's

only a little thing you clip behind your ear which is projecting onto your eye I don't know what it will be but I mean this is this is what science fiction is talking about for centuries now so for so so long a time and this is something you know being about so I personally believe yes it will be and there is no difference I mean at some point if you if you want the real world to be shown with your glasses fine if you want to shut everything down and make everything dark and have only the experience and VR so why should the glasses do that so but the point is so what I'm really excited about is figuring out where we'll be where we will be at some point when we are not talking about glasses anymore but the context then is the chip the net on your head or whatever it is so this is this is the thing which gets me really excited if you build it they will come there's obviously a very very very long

way right like I mean I'm still waiting my hover skateboard that was promised about 30 years ago that's done that I'm still not here so when we talk about chips and heads is it's a long way I think it's also about how the world understanding of these devices right it's we need to think of how we are going to interact with the world around us and the devices that understand the world you know like our device can scan objects in a room and tell you how many table surfaces are in the room right now or how many posters you have on the walls and star persistent locations and anchor those locations that the digital objects to those locations like how do we use color in the world with the camera on the device to affect gameplay or interaction that's the thing that excites me the most about this technologies how the technology understands the world I think that is everything I wanted to talk about thank you very much everybody

chris is going to rejoin us with his very cool glasses very much I've been thoroughly enjoying this