Will Dislyte Be Lilith's Next Big Mobile Gaming Hit? | Deconstruction ft. Game Experts

hey folks lillith games has been an incredible success story launching super high quality and successful mobile games like dota legends aka arena art of conquest afk arena and rise of kingdoms lilith recently launched a new team battle rpg game called dislight this game was a fresh new take on the genre with a modern art style focused on modern culture and music in creating collectible heroes from worldwide mythology rather than using an ip like other games in the same genre for example star wars galaxy heroes or marvel strike force so how has dislight achieved some level of impressive initial success and what's behind the recent decline in revenue and downloads and finally what is the future outlook for the game well we have two experts who recently covered dislight harshal carvande is a lead game designer at rovio as well as a novick pro contributor at market research from navik we also have teemu palamaki a chief games analyst at game refinery and finally i was able to convince data.ai

the leading market intelligence firm and sponsor of this co podcast to come on and break down a lot of the data behind the game so we will also give you all the revenue download rpd and other data estimates for dislike covered by data.ai's gm of gaming gender u anyway without further ado let's get into it dislike deconstruction coming up right now welcome guys thanks so much for joining me um jinda i thought we could start by just trying to look at dislight at the data level in terms of what the performance is looking like and things like that so i was kind of following your uh lead in this this discussion where you were talking about um navic's article where they you know they mentioned that the slide has a much higher rpd in its early weeks of launch especially in the u.s so we took a look at our data and if you

see this blue line here this is the slide in its early days and actually we took the slide and their competitors all like the light games and we push them all to the same start line so no matter which when they launch we move them to the same start line so we it's a comparison of the of the first few weeks of all these games so yes you can see that in the us this light does have higher the highest rpd amongst these other games okay how but also if you were to expand this from the us to look at worldwide so now we're looking worldwide and actually their numbers are not uh top okay there are some other games like a dragon ball similar small raid shadow legends that are higher so we could also dig deeper to see you know uh for the worldwide numbers what what what's really causing you know uh dislike to have a lower worldwide number so if we were to look into this slide stats uh rpd revenue per down and we look at across all regions everywhere in the world and we can

actually see that some we just like hong kong singapore brunei you know some of these regions places with uh some some some parts of some parts of the population being ethnic chinese they they do have quite high rpd okay and then especially singapore as well you can see a very very high uh average time per user i think singapore is also where they publish the game from okay and so if they have such a high rpd in these places uh why do they have a overall you know when you look at worldwide it's just around four bucks so if if we can scroll down to the bottom uh you can see there are some um countries here you see like uh brazil 400k downloads okay and we just look at they have around six million downloads in 6.3 million dollars in total so 400k downloads in brazil that's around eight percent and eight percent of these players are paying a a average of four uh revenue per dollar is 47 cents and similarly uh mexico here as well also huge down numbers but not very high uh apu or rpd so these are some developing

regions that are uh you can say pulling down the rpd a little bit all right and let's quickly also take a look at dragon ball and raid so dragon ball has very high apu in japan hong kong and other countries you know where the ip's very strong okay similarly raid as well very strong in in parts of europe scandinavia and so on all right similarly they also have some developing countries where downloads are huge but the um like brazil indonesia downloads are huge but the the revenues are not very high hands of the overall rpg goes down a little bit but not to say i would i would not totally say that these developing regions do not have much revenue there are also like third-party payment providers like coda pay raiser gold and so on that provide third-party payment gateway services over there and also work with local e-commerce e-commerce apps and so on to provide more uh payment outlets okay yeah so that's in general are those are those tracked

like those third-party payment gateways are they track are they we're not tracking them as of yet not yet okay but we could also okay so since we were here i would just dive into a little bit since we were talking about apple and rpd as well um so if we were to look at dive into the in-app purchase the details of the in-app purchases uh we can see that um the the most too popular uh popular in terms of purchase volume the packs that i bought are the firstly the 99 item sorry this actually the purchase volume is not huge but because it's a lot of money so it contributes actually to the highest revenue and the second highest the second item that contributes to the highest revenue that would be the 9.99 item and uh lastly uh i also took a look at the cross app usage meaning uh users of this app which add other apps do they use and i found okay so i picked out some highlights uh they use a lot of discord i mean 40 to 50 percent 48 of them and this is based on indonesian

data because they have a lot of place in indonesia um 48 of their players also use this chord and also a lot of them also use twitch which means they are kind of hardcore players uh who hardcore players will have higher apu and also they uh you know spend a lot of time playing and not are they also part of the community they contribute past the community and they also play a lot of hardcore games like pubg league of legends and so on another thing i found interesting was zoom i just i was i i'm a zoom user so i would say i work in a certain industry and i have you know i mean i'm not a blue collar so i think they also have a fair share possibly of white collars which also could contribute to the higher rpd and jinda can you also speak on the overall revenue or overall downloads uh to date in terms of the timing or is that worldwide sure yeah worldwide and i'll filter out the competition right yep

i know that when you were looking at um just like you you decided to focus on the us was it because of the strong monetization that you saw in the us yeah and also uh like some of the competitive games like they are uh available in china for example and that brings in like uh like that throws the numbers off quite a bit so i felt like us is like a good common ground uh uh let's own um you know all their games if you just look at their revenue fifty percent of it comes from china and then fifty percent from the us like you know it's kind of like an equal split so i felt uh without launching in china it's probably i think like yeah right and timo i know you did a webinar on dislike before jinda jumps into the numbers uh anything that you would be reacting to right now as far as

what you're seeing from the data um nothing that comes to mind right now we focused mostly on the like game features so so more about like what what the game is actually like and how it compares to what we see in general okay great so those are the numbers agenda so these are the global numbers for downloads and revenues so you can see downloads have come down quite quite a bit uh i think initially they were doing quite a bit of paid campaigns okay and then for revenues it's also come down but it's still maintaining at around a million dollars per week and this is uh net revenue yeah okay okay awesome thanks so much do you like to see a country break down or you're good sure why not yeah let's see a country breakdown so yeah uh the biggest revenue countries would

be you know us france hong kong uh germany canada and so on yeah but um the the downloads do not really follow the same trend got it some of these regions would have very high apple like hong kong and so on okay great all right thanks jinda thanks so much for sharing um it's it's great to see like the performance from the data and so now i i thought it'd be great to kind of jump in and have you guys react to some of what what you were seeing and i know harshal you've kind of done a you've one of the things that you highlighted in your report was just how well this light has monetized in the us relative to very strong ip-based games of a similar type right so star wars galaxy of heroes marvel strike force and so at least in the us um they seem to be outperforming those those games at least you know through a time period or an initial launch

and so as far as like how you guys think the game what in terms of what the game has done well to monetize in the way that we've seen from the data that gender presented you know how have they done so well and especially without the the top performing games in the genre which are supported by strong ip and maybe a harsher you want to start yeah so this light comes from lilith games and they have a really strong foundation with afk arena like leading the charge in the hero collector rpg space so i almost see it as a studio you know it is very tough in the current market and it's always been tough in the free to play game space that a studio who is really good at a genre is able to you know make a game that is bigger than their previous uh you know big hit so it it is something that you know the studio kind of like if you have afk arena performing so well out in the market

in the rpg space what do you create that is able to then perform better and compete with raid and sumner's war and all of those games which are kind of beating afk arena and i think in that sense they kind of succeeded it's still too early and too young the game is you know not even uh half a year uh you know life so it is quite early to uh talk about things but with the early numbers right out of the gates making something uh which is uh more successful than the previous attempt into the rpg space um you know you kind of go back to okay what did lilly do with afk arena that you know fk arena blew out of the gates as a successful game and they made this kind of niche genre a lot more accessible uh with the idle mechanics they made it uh like a little broader appealing and uh you know it this light is like a next step in that that how can we still make it more accessible without losing uh you know uh like having some

like lower ltv or losing some monetization aspect so having a very deep game but still continuing the trend of making it more accessible and you can see that from the decision making of just the kind of pop aesthetic uh the hero rpg games uh have start have always looked better and better these heroes need to look very collectible uh because they are the kind of primary monetization driver and yet still maintain you know all the deep systems uh for their audience so i think that that's what i feel like they have done with this game that they are able to learn from their kind of rpg roots and make a game that can then compete with the others and right you know have be a stronger bet than uh you know their previous big hit right and um great and so like some of that stuff in terms of so i i take it you mean like with the the like the pop music and the art style being more culturally modern and relevant that you think that's

what's helping it be become more approachable as you're calling it is that is that right yeah so i think with those uh the game makes a fantastic first impression that when you see it you feel the energy and it looks very modern and you know you might want to give it a try from the visuals and the look in the aesthetic uh but then if you step deeper the rpg games are all about progression and their main motivation is power and it's a power fantasy can you get stronger and even from that perspective this light having this you know pillar of god-like power like we all have grown up with different you know uh narratives in mythology and basing that as the basis of like you know your heroes are god-like beings uh yet they are very human because they have uh the human that there are human characters that get these godlike powers so you have uh you know the collectible nature of like waifu and husbando games so you have a very attractive uh you

know a motorcycle enthusiast and she gets odyn's power so how do you mix those two or there's a a podcaster named helena and she gets the helen of troy's powers and it makes it uh like really stand out in a very unique way and yet make it uh very accessible and drive to the core of power growth and god-like growth um so after the first impression the game systems do a really good job of nudging players into what do you need to do everything is available in game uh right now uh jender was showing us how discord seems to be a common app used because the slide integrates really well with discard through the app but the app itself has so many ways that it nudges players on what kind of squads they should use what kind of upgrades they should use there's a lot of community feedback in the ux and ui that tells you what other players have decided and how uh players

are kind of improving the chances of victory uh by uh you know using what kind of squad so the game kind of brings uh like you know all that information one step closer and in a very digestible way it's not filled with a lot of over information but it nudges the players in the right way that hey if you are for example having difficulties with the with battles nudge and see what other players are doing and the beauty of that is it's an organic system so as they continue to add more features and more heroes into the game it'll always remain relevant they have a reddit style weighted comment system in the game so if players find a comment useful and if you're having trouble those comments are weighted upward and it's really fantastically they build a whole social system uh in the world uh in the game and the app itself that nudges players so if you're new to hero collector rpgs there are a lot of progress vectors uh there are a lot of battle modes that you need to get accustomed to uh but this slide does a really good job of nudging

players in the right way uh uh and getting uh access to those right and timo what do you think in terms of the the monetization well well the monetization is um well first first continuing uh thought from that like i remember when i started uh playing this slide when when i opened it uh and started playing it i i said to my co-worker alti who we did the webinar with uh we we were um i i just had to say say to him that these characters they have so many different skills and and like everyone seems to have their unique status effect that they they put on the enemies and and i'm having a hard time following this and i play these games for for a uh but then those those kind of guides that you mentioned that the uh that you can see uh how players have used them and what kind of comments they've given for the

characters those really helped me to kind of see which character or which things to focus on on characters and and those can really help uh uh for for uh new players and like the first impression was really really good like when when i saw the game uh when i saw sorry first time and like you have these you have this musical music theme you have these uh street fashion clothes you have these gods mixed mixed in all this and what what is this game so it really picks your interest and you can again it can really get you in and then when you get you get in the game uh going to the monetization i think lilith game is really really good at uh monetization they really uh get you in into the game you you start getting really excited for for it it's easy to start progressing

and and you have a variety of ways uh to spend and say uh i think the god just might be a little a little bit you know uh kind of more whale focused that at least that's how it felt as a player that when you when you start uh when you want to get and get characters you only have the one option where to get them sure you have you can farm certain characters which is really nice feature i really like that and it's it's possible to get the the gabriel the one of the top tier characters you can get that by farming and that is uh really nice it makes you feel like okay this game really welcomes me but then when you want to widen your roster you pretty much have that one place to go and you have no options there are no there are rarely uh um like these the limited gotchas that give improved

chances to get characters so it gets really expensive quickly if if you're not paying attention and and when you're having fun you're not really paying attention so so uh i think they're really good at that and then you know the stamina system uh that's something that what i was constantly hitting like oh i want to play more but i'm out of stamina oh i i need to well i can spend small amount of gems to do that but then also like uh well it's not that expensive to buy it and i'm having good time here so you have kind of the low sprinter option and you have a high spender option and those uh make you feel like um you you get good stuff out of them yeah and jinda i know you're primarily oriented around the data but did you have a chance to to kind of play and have your perceptions as a player yeah i did uh just a little bit so i

think i'm i'm i play a few games like a few like two or three games so i'm not a heavy gamer i don't really get paid to play games the whole day i wish that there would be true play to earn you know so okay but i did try it so you can consider me a mid casual mid core player okay so i think two things that stood out i mean i think i played it around five times uh stood up for me just casual observations first it's one of those very few games very rare games that actually asked me to put on headphones to experience and i did and it was wow it was surreal it was something different you know no game ever asked me to do that you know uh the other thing was uh i'm a busy person or just i or maybe i'm just a person with short attention span whenever i see stories animation i skip so i skip and then they give me a summary wow that was a very cool i thought that was a very cool small innovation i could skip all watching uh two minutes of animation but i can still get the gist of what's going

on and still follow the story and i think hashem mentioned the narratives i think that's to be bought into the story that's one reason for you to want to pay for exceptional characters or skins yeah and i mean i think this game took a number of well maybe not calling it risk but the key differentiation between if you were to look at the existing players in the market that have the biggest success star wars galaxy heroes marvel strike force although raid to a lesser degree but we're talking about the music right how many people with mobile phones have headphones on or listen or don't just turn sound on or off i don't know maybe that's changed the the narrative although they provide you the option to turn it on or off just the art style and how relevant culturally relevant and modern it is and then four no ip now there's also raid which is original ip but if if you're like a game exec you typically be thinking should we get an ip or not so um i like the originality and i like to your point gender about

all those little small innovations that they kind of integrated into the game but when when you guys think about ip um like how did you guys all also think that was a big risk i mean there is also raid out there but how did you guys think about what maybe any of those risks whether it's the music the narrative you know the not having an ip um if you were to think about that i mean i guess in retrospect we're seeing it's it's still doing okay although gen dead to your point like things are starting to come down one of the things that marvel strike force and star wars galaxy of heroes can count on as continued organic downloads based upon the ip and things like that but do you guys have any other thoughts in terms of some of those key points of differentiation yeah i i can i can go first on this so the whole idea of far light games which is a kind of branch of lilith games uh their ceo spoke about their goal of global

localization is the term that they're kind of internally using and though the game is not launched in china so this is a problem in the way that the game can actually be advertised differently in china compared to the rest of the world like if you look at the ua for the game currently they're using heroes like loki who kind of looks like his marvel counterpart with the with the long horns um and heroes that could kind of appeal more to the western uh players but i can see how well you know because there is a like one of the mythologies that they use is chinese and there are a lot of chinese heroes and iconography in the game they would be able to kind of broaden you know this kind of divide between western and eastern players and really kind of uh customize their message uh by getting players across the board and one example that always comes to my mind is the breadth of expansion that empires and puzzles managed

if you think about that game it is fantasy but it is fantasy in such a broad aspect that it is fantasy like lord of the rings it is fantasy like harry potter it is fantasy like game of thrones and having that kind of breadth really helps you know scale games up uh very effectively um and if you comp that to you know the next game that small giant which was puzzle combat it was so much narrow in you know this military aesthetic that they had going uh it did not scale to the scale of which you know you have empires and puzzles as you know you learn a lot from a game that is live and being so successful if you have the same systems can you make a bigger game by having you know a less wider theme so i feel uh this light is kind of managing that with their you know the mythological worldwide uh uh penetration of uh those stories and heroes team engineering go ahead yeah uh well the game doesn't have an ip

but like like just mentioned it has these gods so in a way it has this kind of universal ipa you have you have gods from china you have gods from nordics you have gods from egypt and and and all these so there are things that people feel familiar to even if they are taken to like they take a different twist so in in that sense it's kind of using a soft eyepiece so so to speak uh that that can help and one thing it also does like it has really wide net uh for for players uh especially these days it's hard to find that specific narrow niche audience uh because the kind of uh well targeting the advertising is getting more difficult but like uh what what this light does is it's it's really diverse in its

characters uh you have a variety of skin colors you have men and women you have different side sizes or body body shapes you have uh old you have young you have living you have undit you have these human characters then you have these furry animal characters and and it just appeals to your uh white white audience and and in my bubble i i'm really into like uh drawing stuff uh i i i i studied like game graphics before i joined game refinery but but like uh i i really like looking into like what kind of fan arts uh uh are made out of games uh of different mobile games because i enjoy looking at them and and when looking at like what kind of fan art is available uh on this light it's it's a it's a lot of

uh folk focused on the different characters that an animal themed characters uh because that that kind of those people are really into drawing fan art and then they kind of share about the game uh with with their friends and then there was a lot of these hot uh young young boys as well so those are really also popular among fan artists so that gives uh to some extent some like organic visibility just by characters existing in in the game and in in my small social media bubble there were uh these uh posts about like players comparing ganshin impact uh skin tones uh to what what they have in this light or what they have in cookie run kingdom and and they really for those people who who that matters a lot uh they they really um make the word go

around that here is a game that is really uh inclusive and and you can find something that uh you you feel uh really related to yeah i thought you might have made a couple of good points there team especially like by using gods i mean that saves so much time in terms of character design as well right because it's like you just need to riff on it you don't have to come up with original concepts things like that by using gods of different countries you also have like set collection uh categories and things like that but and to your point i thought the other interesting aspect of what you had talked about is if you are making an art style that is that is modern and relevant for then you're basically creating an opportunity for fans to then virally promote through rifts and things of that nature so that's that's that's super interesting as well um jinda any thoughts or should i move on to a point actually that you made in

the data that i'd love to like hear your thoughts on i think these guys have already got great points uh detail points uh it just because i came across a quote from the ceo i think it's from from some time back uh he was referencing uh one of the earliest titles dot arena several several years back and he and he was talking about the success and failure of that i mean success because it was huge and then failure because it faced all kinds of suits and stuff and they had to pull it down and then change the name and so on he said that he couldn't believe that the game's success had so much to do with the ip and because of that they resolved he resolved and his company resolved to double down on creativity or innovations and to hopefully eventually create their own ip so that was i think one of the driving motivations from that big lesson and maybe we could actually yeah that's a super interesting backstory i mean there's i think gina you know some of the backstory of of my influence on fun plus and things

like that with uh dota legends the original name but um but yeah like in terms of lilith itself like how much do you are you guys familiar with them in terms of like the type of studio they are um what do you guys know if anything about lilith the studio and and kind of you know their their history and what what that history may have given them to be able to produce a game like this light okay so they've come a long way since a lot of other hits like rise of kingdoms and afk arena and so on and i think one thing that we've known about them is that they have an exceptional uh strong publishing team which is and they're very good at localization i think hashem mentioned that as well uh what they do is i think they sometimes employ quite creative ways for marketing in ua and they don't just believe in you know taking successful high apple games in china and then uh just localizing the language everywhere they believe and i think hashem mentioned the word global

localization and that's what they put a lot of focus and time on uh to maximize the the arpu in every every country yeah and also they launched a new publishing brand uh far like in singapore and i think this because singapore has a base to push for international expansion uh that's also an increasing trend so actually there seems like not to mention they're close to google and facebook here yes it seems like there's some historical context to what you're what you were talking about jinda when you said you know like during the during the you know kind of uh uh dodd arena dota legends the other historical contestants well they learned the lesson that they should own their own ip but even going back like they they actually had a lot of difficulties working with their chinese publisher and there was a whole yeah i don't know if you because the original game that came to the us their publisher actually kind of ripped their code and did whatever so now from that lesson they're like okay we need to publish our

own games because we got hosts so it seems like they're kind of learning from a series of painful lessons and based on those lessons they're pivoting to to you know build their own internal capabilities right right yeah and the other thing was i think they were one of the earlier ones to realize okay in china it's going to be dominated by a lot of tencent alibaba netease and so on and if you don't have the means to distribute um it would be very expensive to do this in china so they were one of those earlier ones to try to go for international uh uses and repairs i believe the original team came from tencent i think they were like four years attention and they kind of jumped but yeah i i have met the ceo before i was very impressed when i first met him uh the first time i played you know dota legends i was i was stunned so they definitely have come a long way since that time but um definitely very impressive one of the few studios really

cranking out like hit hit hit hit so super impressive on that and harshal and timo i don't know if you have any other thoughts in terms of lilith the the company and organization but if you do love to hear any of your thoughts so i've been having this really strong feeling that you know the chinese devs are taking over the world it is absolutely impressive uh what they are able to accomplish um at a technical scale which is unprecedented like gangshin impact running that well on day zero on devices all over the world on platforms all over the world was absolute insanity and uh you know blizzard's uh diablo also runs so well on on mobile devices and uh this light and limited games uh you know they run so well uh i was just thinking about for example the server tech for these games in this light when you have a server error the action still gets completed

you know it kind of come there's a screen which comes up like there's a server connection error and you say okay and the action still gets completed i have never ever felt this in a you know a free-to-play mobile game that you know when there is a server disconnect the action usually is cancelled and you know players usually have to then do the action again so i feel there's a lot of little nuances uh that that this company is absolutely excellent at and um one of the things i wanted to mention earlier uh maybe now's a good time is with the energy system so you need stamina to partake in battles and there has been a trend in hero collector rpgs that stamina only gets consumed if you are successful in battle so if you lose a battle they kind of give you 90 of the stamina back so any energy that gets spent in a game is you know positive for progression um which is very different like i work in puzzle games so usually you lose energy when you lose levels so it's like absolutely the opposite of that

and then if you think of the merge genre that's a very positive progression genre like energy only gets spent if you progress you know you have more items on the game board so one thing i wanted to talk about the battle system was they have this absolutely incredible minimization mechanic that if you get into grinding some levels or you know you want some resources you can start grinding and then you can minimize the battle in real time and then you can just move on to another boss battle and if you think about it from a player experience perspective it is doubly rewarding it's almost like playing dislight on two different devices at the same time and then gaining the gained progression together so i would expect a lot more hero collector rpgs implement this parallel battle system that while your heroes are out battling and grinding farming resources you the players can then spend their active time in either getting more heroes upgrading them or uh investing in like you know the harder battles which need them uh to actively

interact uh in the battle so again it goes back to the tech that you know it's so seamless that when you're using the app you can minimize the batteries and with the tap you can maximize it back and you know the heroes are battling with all their animations and it's like zero load times between those and teaming maybe like is harsha mentioned the stamina system and maybe we can come back if you want to highlight any other important points of differentiation but when you do compare the genre against the other games galaxy heroes strike force raid any of these other games uh dragon ball d do you guys see any other key differences or timu would you call out any specific differentiation as as far as whether it's the implementation of the gotcha or anything else from a feature perspective well um most of those games are analyzed by other analysts game refinery so i mostly have japanese rpgs so

um i can't go into details because of that but um overall like this light has very very solid feet um sorry very solid uh feature set it has um it takes all the boxes it has the same mechanics that that successful games have but it really does uh exceptional job at some of some of things where it um goes a little bit further just like marshall mentioned like the way you can grind uh twice at the same time like leave the game grinding and then then go grind yourself another thing that that is really something that i love i've seen it in a couple of japanese games before uh it's it's wonderful system in in one i i think it was played explored that i

played in japan uh i could put that game to grind like for a whole night and then come back and be like yes i had i had good good good progress here and it was fun to progress in that game uh but but that that that system makes makes playing this light much much easier because it is a very uh grindy game and then when when you're grinding uh twice at the same time or or you're grinding auto grinding and playing yourself you're spending double the stamina so i i suppose that's good for monetization like that's why i constantly ran out of stamina and ended up purchasing more okay great well maybe like um the we kind of left at a cliffhanger when when jinda showed us the data right so there was like the big spike and it was kind of coming down but you know in terms of based on what

you guys know from a features perspective from the data that we've seen what would you expect the longer term outlook for dislight like how do you think it will ultimately do relative to the other leading game titles which i've already mentioned uh revenue like whether it's downloads or revenue life of product um what do you guys think how well will it do and maybe you can even even highlight what are what would be the biggest risks to the game uh maybe starting with you marshall yeah so one red flag for me is the game has actively avoided a lot of conflict by which i mean like player versus player conflict that drives like the whole power fantasy you know comes to the highlight when it's beating others right becoming global number one country number one becoming the best and uh it it felt odd to me that this light almost all of us social features are

more collaborative comparative help each other and there isn't a lot of space in the game for conflict or you know comparison in the way that you want to get better than other players it's mostly been that you know you can take ideas of other players and helps you progress or share their characters and that will help you progress uh and even the clan system uh you know it has this activeness meter so as long as you're active in your own way your plan will kind of progress towards rewards so i do feel that as a red flag primarily because i feel uh you know competition systems drive like you know long term engagement and monetization uh players kind of if they want to be first and top of the leaderboards for this month and every month uh get all the characters max them out uh that really drives uh you know uh a certain subset of uh really really valuable players um so i do expect that the game would add them as we go forward

uh but with the amount of uh time and energy that has gone into all the other supporting systems right now the game is very uh pve centric uh that makes it also very friendly that you're getting all the help from other players and you're you're not getting nudged into how how the games work but i i would see it evolve into more you know where are the clan versus clan systems for example um the game has a real time battle system so you can actually battle other players in real time but it's relegated almost to a isn't this fun to try out system it has no rewards to it and you can just have fun with it so i would expect them to kind of lean on those systems more and it really did surprise me that you know in the long term the ability to have different squads uh to be used in pvp so that you reign uh on the pvp leaderboards is the kind of super charging factor like yes you have your events you have your heroes but the the overall layer is social uh which

keeps players long-term and the monetization really uh supercharged so now that is a red tag i'm not sure how much is that uh intended decision that they would want to make a game more accessible and hence avoid pv uh pvp as much as possible but if you compare to the other games uh they do have way more robust global leaderboards and this kind of social comparison that drives players to you know to better and uh really really increase their engagement and uh just long-term ltv of the product now in the old days i'm a little bit dated from working on this specific type of game but there used to be certain perspectives in terms of a game should only be pve or game should only be pvp or it should be pve then shift to pvp um do you have any thoughts on that do you think they could pull off in in today's day and age you can be kind of a healthy mix of both pve and pvp and certainly i think like you did see a little bit more of that mixing in some of the 4x games

where it you know it's kind of started off all pvp then they started adding like pve elements and shoot in some shooter games like tarkov you have like you know uh npcs and things like that as well but like do you have any thoughts on the mixing of those moves yeah um well i in in the rpg space itself you can see that you know like the base building of empires and puzzles and the story and campaign mode sits very comfortably alongside the alliance and the alliance wars and uh you know those systems so unless you know somebody's making a game uh which is central pvp like maybe clash royale is a good example like every battle in that game even though if you want to just progress through the uh different uh uh arenas it every battle is still a pvp battle um i i do think that there is enough space um if the question is you know do they need to pick a lady

you're saying you can make it we're seeing more we're seeing more examples of that yeah i mean you know broadly is there a successful free-to-play mobile game without competition you know or without social comparison and i i feel like you know it's very hard to argue for games that have i i will say this there are some games that are very successful that people think are pvp games that aren't but we can leave that for a topic for another discussion but okay t-move same question long-term outlook for dislight well it's it's going to need a lot of uh i i think more variety to be uh successful right now like i i've been playing it a lot so

it's it's been just the same kind of crimes grinding the same same material same equipment the equipment system uh is getting uh kind of tedious i have like with a 2000 or something to sort through and see which ones are relevant you know you have like there are games that have that kind of system that you have these relics that you assigned to the character that gives stats and stats are randomized but i think they they made it a little bit more complex than what i've seen for example in cookie ranking denmark or uh well some other games uh so you have a variety of these um different uh i items that have different stat things then then you have like for four different slots for for those and then you have randomized stats and

you know for some characters it is relevant to have like a strength strength focused equipment for some it's speed focused and so you kind of want to keep keep them all uh just in case you get that good character that actually needs it but you don't know which one so there's a lot of like recently when i when i started i i felt like this game is great it's a lot of fun it's something new but the more i played it it's like uh this is very grindy this is kind of tedious i have to leave the device open i can't do anything else with the device sure i can crank two things in the same game but but but like uh i i think it needs more variety beat the pvp or or be it some different kind of uh pve elements like afk arena has has surprised me in the past it has diversified its game you know it has max 3 mode for for some reason it has dice

game events it has like card game type of events and and so i i expect um to see like diversity like that but like when when they have add new characters that are featured in in the main gotcha uh the events that come with those are really really nice and really really fun to play and you know the zora event had like uh the events uh unique progression system that you unlock not nodes and and you get stat boosts for just that event and i i think that was that was uh kind of exciting and and and different so yeah i expect uh more more different things uh in in order for it to be successful and jinda what about you like the the the data that we saw from from you was a little bit

uh grime i i think okay firstly let me address uh pvp first so i i think it's pvp is definitely fun and it makes sense uh as a game mode and it makes everything a lot more engaging i think it makes sense uh were you know especially where skill skill makes difference you know like uh how do i play this first or that like do i buff up the whole team first or do i attack this one person focus attack or attack all three enemies at once you know this little these things sometimes skill can override you know uh the the the attributes of your characters and that's where um players with stronger uh skills could overcome other players so and the other things like unique characters unique skins helps some players who want to show off they don't look better you know so this has the ingredients of engage this game has the ingredients for for being to have an engaging pvp game mode so again if i look at the

the data so i think this game has only been out of soft launch for say two to three months and i look at their paid downloads data uh they paid ua it's down to a trickle let's say just 20 30 000 worldwide every week this doesn't look like i mean for a game that has high such high apu and owned by linux with such huge budgets this does not seem like end of story at all i think they're just uh waiting to uh push the push the pvp into the mainstream to the main gameplay but i think they probably tuning some stuff here and there as well because to push pvp you need tons of players online at the same time especially if you're doing synchronous play now it's a terrible experience if you just search for a game and you wait 10 minutes and there's nothing people don't come back uh some of the very huge games on day one uh either they have lots of players or they put lots of bots to make it look like oh instant connection instant player building the machine learning basebots takes a while with a lot of investment like the

kind of more the scripted ai is a little more straightforward so maybe i could ask you guys one last question i'll just open it up for anyone if anyone has any thoughts but basically what would you guys expect to see from dislike in the future or or maybe even from lilith in the future any any thoughts on that now this will be the last question well uh one thing about this slide like we talked about the kind of social systems integration or almost like a social media platform integration into the app itself uh i just wanted to say that you know these characters and their collectible nature leads to this you know there's a subculture of wifo and husbandos and people have actually gotten married to these fictional characters and you can it's yeah it's quite insane but the internet is as internet does and when they pull the internet into the game most of the kind of help sections are also

just filled with like thirst tweets for each and every single character across the game and uh you know it's it's one degree one degree of separation less right it's right in the app uh you can go to different forums and you know there are uh places in the internet that you can find these but now it's like right in the app so uh i do feel like uh the i can see the potential for the game in in the way it is um from lilith i would wonder that you know are there any other genres in which you know not being in top 10 is not good enough like they have to be in the top five you know because this light seems to be a move on that like afk arena is massively successful in the genre that it competes in for them to say that hey we can do better i would worry about you know the other genres that they are in and i would expect them to you know kind of double down on those like uh i guess rise of kingdom kingdoms is number one so i don't know how where do you go from

there uh but they have the other some other genres which you know they're not uh in top five and you know probably they would kind of double dip on that that you know uh genre mastery and learning that you know we have something that we learn from it is successful but not the successful scale that we think we have potential to bring it to so i would expect them to kind of double dip on those uh genres yeah and jenda you had mentioned that they did start far light publishing so we probably should have an expectation of additional title output things like that and in addition your comment on maybe the the pvp focus will come once they accumulate enough users then they'll potentially have a stronger emphasis on pvp but all right any other thoughts guys or should we should we call it a wrap uh you mentioned you know things i may expect from them or hope to see from them this is a long shot yeah but you know me you know i i i've been uh in blockchain since for a while and i've been involved in game fight i would love to see when they become big uh hashem

mentioned collectibles they could turn some of the characters into nfts uh and mix and introduce some gameplay elements especially since far lights based in singapore it's a hotbed of blockchain tv so that would be a very interesting thing for me personally okay so a far light character collection far light board cl yacht club something like that okay awesome all right guys well thank you so much for your time and for our audience we will catch you later bye thanks guys thank you [Music]

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