🎮 The 3-Minute playable that pre-qualifies your WHALES!

You need to do that groundwork of like with a with proper designers and you know analysis of the playables and look at the competition and have like a game design document whenever you build a playable where you have some sort I don't know a number of principles that you follow and to me I'm like it's this is again if we look at someone like plays why does it work well it's because they do [music]
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Ah. [music] Ah. Ah. [music] Ah. Okay. Real talk before we start. This episode is brought to you by Potencus. And if you're a mobile game publisher tired of leaving money on the table, listen up. Potencus is a premium ad network built by people who have actually been on both sides of this industry. Game publishers, agencies, successful exits. So, they get it. Here's the thing. Potentis has direct deals with Amazon, Apple, Coca-Cola, Vodafon. It's not programmatic. It's direct. Those budgets land in your game at premium CPMs. No middleman tax. And they handle everything with their in-house team in terms of the critics. Plus, they've partnered with Playable Maker. So, they will take brands YouTube videos or static images and actually

turned into a playable ad or revert video. Proper interactive format built for gaming inventory. Brands getting a gaming native creative publishers are getting a higher CPMs. Everyone wins. Head to potensus.com to get started or check their creative portfolio in the link in the show notes. Thank you very much Potencus for sponsoring this episode. Hello everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of Two and a Half Gamers. Today we are talking about playables and playable trends as we started doing few months ago and we'll definitely keep on doing this for maybe few more months. We we'll see. Anyway, my name is Matial Lanchic.
My name is Andre Mosberger.
I'm Robin Cer
and we are your hosts.
This is actually amazing. So, as you as you might have noticed, we have Robin on the podcast. a new face. Robin, could you introduce yourself for the for the audience before we start?
Sure. I guess by now I am a playable expert. I now lead Unity Playworks,

which is the former Luna Labs Playable Solutions. So, I've been doing playables for like 5 years. Um, before that, I did some monetization at Chart Boost, did some UA at Chart Boost. So, I've been in the industry now for roughly 10 years, which just means I'm getting older.
Yes, we are getting older. That's That's very true. Ah, but it's okay. We can we can date ourselves. We can date ourselves. So, we're going to talk about fashion playable trends and some interesting stuff from player rigs and then I'm going to show you different things. So, if you want to kick us off Andre to see what will we are doing
I will do the regular
introduction. So again I will start with the same thing as I probably you know sorry if you're getting bored with it but these trends are not about you know keep repeating the same playable. So sometimes we are omitting on purpose something that we see you know too many times and we are focusing more on something that we found uh new something

that we didn't catch you know our attention previously or something that we keep like some sort of emerging or new pattern. So that's why those two topics will be today. So one is let's call it a fashion pattern and the second one will be let's call it playicks pattern and whatever you know the best practices that you can see in the playables that they are doing the so let me start with the fashion one the and obviously or I I say obviously we are all three good-looking guys and uh we like our fashion but uh the the interesting part with this was that it was like you know again the the drill is you know sensor tower new creatives playables all platforms and there was like every fifth every 10th like here and there there was this kind of uh let's call template or playable ad that was with this kind of topic. So I was just opening one by one in different tabs and like looking deeper and you know first there was something like this dressed game where this is literally promoting the let's let's call it the the core loop or core gameplay where you

actually you know are picking different options and and have uh the the styling for your persona and it's it's it's working fine. is working nice like there is it's
it's my own.
Now I know what my other co-host mean when you have the [ __ ] [music] loud music on the playable.
I'm going to explode.
Yes. So we can hear it because I'm pretty sure you have your website.
How can you hear it when I'm muted?
The website on your end is muted but if you share with sound we can hear it. So I'm I did it multiple times. So, you need to reshare again and then just don't share the the sound.
Honestly, this this is the story of my life. Whenever I do a demo, I don't hear anything. I'm I'm speaking to people and they're like, we didn't hear [ __ ] like the whole time this playable was playing and I'm like I Anyway,
yes, now it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Now, because I was always like, "Guys, I have no idea what you're talking about because everything is muted and they were just laughing at me."
Yeah.
I didn't know I I catch that. I didn't

know that it's a real thing. I thought it's like it's some sort of your setup like it's always your right. Not not anybody else.
Yeah.
I'm happy now that you gave the explanation of how that works because I never understood but that makes sense that you're sharing it and then that shared screen is is playing. Okay.
Yeah. The but the funny thing is that I was so so I mean sorry for prolonging the podcast but pausing it here. So basically
the last episode I was not doing that. So it's a really maybe it's a good topic for playables as well. It's the level of audio sound that you basically are triggering. Okay. and Andre, we just finished playables for for one company from like the internal team and the guys were like, "The audio is really loud. Let's let's work with with the actual like levels of of sound in the in the playable."
Okay, because that's actually to promote a little bit playable maker as well. We have this functionality and I never used it when I was creating templates or something like for example to you can specifically set the level of audio

volume. I always put it to max of course. Why not?
Yeah.
So, so, so it might be interesting like for example on the end card to really I don't know to put up the dramatic music a little bit louder than in the game play and so Okay. Okay. Not a bad idea actually for our dear listeners, you know, play with your volume.
Volume.
So your ears won't won't explode.
Yeah. Yeah. So if I now change tabs, it keeps the settings, right? So you will not hear the the the audio, I guess. Yeah, it's you're fine.
Here was here was the interesting pattern for me as a as a noob in this group in in gaming industry. Like this was another, you know, it's a different game from Crazy Laps, you know, it's it's all good. And there was this kind of like this hook or this mechanic that you need to please your boyfriend and in the end his mother and something, you know, you need to you need to figure out. There was no if and then. So I I tried many of these mechanics. No matter what you pick, you always end up with your uh angry mother-in-law.

Yeah. But interesting part was that then I was kind of seeing the same playables from different company which eventually we'll be talking about player riicks as well. So here is my nishish question. This is not these are not connected in as far as I checked in any way rights and kinetic energy games.
I don't think so.
Yeah, you get even the same model even the same you know CTA buttons same even the dresses and the options. So interesting. I mean I I understand this can happen even with template if somebody builds it from the from a tool you know but even using the same assets and everything this is something that we always say like templates are here for you to start and you should you know eventually you know play around and switch things up. So it's it was not happening in this case and there these were actually new creatives in the same month from these you know let's say competitive games. So it was quite interesting to see that there is this kind of it's a new it's not a new thing obviously to I'm trying

not to say the word steal creatives because I don't know how it happens.
No I mean I mean
to use the same creatives let's put it
stealing playables is pretty hard man.
Yeah that's that's the thing and then you see the same one so it needs to be a template right from a tool.
It feels also like this is just so simple that you have to do it because everything is there right you you you can make a choice. So there's that feeling of the user actually doing something. there is this emotional part of hey will he like me will he not like me so it's just a a really good template I think where you where you can go many ways
yeah you just switch around if you want Charles clerk or you know his mom
and and there was this what's what's his name the Spider-Man actor you know
Tom Holland Holland
yeah Tom Holland from Wish or or Charles from Ferrari basically you're picking from these two
eventually
eventually you will not win with their mom. So, but yeah, look, they have the same mom. So, doesn't matter which one you you picked. Uh,
it's funny they share the same.

It's funny that this is popular now because I've seen these templates like four years ago. We were doing this in like Luna Labs and like the the original templates were able to do this
which like which is what like makeover pretty much. Okay. Yeah. From from AppLin, right? Or like old game.
You had different ones, right? you had like you pick clothing or you pick makeup and then the makeup would just be like a PNG image on top of the eyelids and they would be purple, red or whatever and that's it, right? It was like there was not even a a playable was just the template very simple.
Yeah, but this is this is I think the the segue to the last example that I will be showing you that you know if you remember the first example is really a fashion game and I have it intentionally in this order. We are most more going now to merch category or match free category. So these are basically kind of hooks like in any any other playables where you are saving a character or something else.
Project makeover. This is what we are talking about. I mean
this is what we are talking about. So basically the this these guys for example for them we are now creating a

lot of new templates uh in our tool as well and you can see how many different older mechanics they're using with the same idea you know pleasing someone's mom or you're waiting for your boyfriend etc etc. But in reality you know it's it's match free games. It's it's not uh you know so this is really just you know you you will do something and then eventually you will just play your match free game and uh and you know win over your uh your character or or receive some some bonus clothing or something like that right a lot of times in this playables there is not even this match free mechanic but in some of them there actually are
obviously no no match free mechanic you know how it works with match free mechanics as soon as you show them
suddenly suddenly the CPI is super high
that's why that's why there is one one interesting template that even I think we were requested to do. Will I find it here? Probably not. Which is like there is this kind of hook that we are now looking at in all these different creatives that you you do your makeup or or clothing. And then on the very last

step, the match free is shown, but basically right after the first interaction, the first diamonds that you will just move, you go to app store, there is no CTA, no nothing. Basically, the playable ends with your with your first real match free interaction. and you know no no no no no way going back from there. So because I mean this is the this is the interesting trend that is I guess just repeating itself for this kind of uh playables that you can just use and you don't have to like like M said like use match free everywhere you can literally pick from from almost anything that is related to this topic and you know the users will will will eventually install it and see that they need
Yeah. Then then the the another part of the coin is to pair the the game metrics with the actual playable because I I I assume that's why they're showing the the match three as last step because this can be this can be very efficient on the CPI side but then those players are not going to kind of translate into very like hardcore players of the match three eventually because it's different

expectation but then you need to just find the the proper balance between the scalability of the playable and like how far from the actual core you want to go and like what is the actual game metrics because we're literally doing this similar exercise with one game in soft lounge and you would be surprised like how big of a difference this can make. Mhm.
Honestly, when Yeah. when you see these playables, you think it's like stories or sim or avatar, like the avatar thing where you
you make your own app character, you make your own house, and then you just go to like a chat room, whatever. That's what it seems like.
And then you download the game and suddenly you're playing machine. Yeah.
That's what I wanted to ask because funny enough, these things work for my older daughter. So, she's 10 now, right? because she don't mind that there is eventually the match free. She she's not interested in the match free or match merge or whatever mechanic. She's

interested in that story and in that character building.
So I guess it's also match a lot about the the audience that you have. Like obviously it will not work for you. You will uninstall the game eventually, you know, very fast.
It won't work for her either because well for her maybe because then eventually like this is only the on boarding for the actual match free game. That's the that's the problem. She will then churn because she will just do this for first maybe 20 30 minutes and then when she goes to match my tree like she's like what the [ __ ] is this? I want to just play around with the character and that's it.
Yeah.
And also 10 years old you know players are not really the core audience for match either eventually.
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Yeah. And probably not even the spender since I control. So the spend is exactly zero. So
So it's hard to it's hard to hard to measure I guess in that case. So yeah, I mean this is just a just a nice example that. So I don't know if this will become a trend and if more games will be
What do you mean like it's already a trend man? Like this is this is old as it it can get. It's just interesting that now Dress is actually popping up. I've seen the the app/ame couple years ago kind of growing but since then not that much and again like I think we are just coming back to the what we

discussed last last time and we're discussing all the time on all the creative trends. just borrowing the different mechanics from other genres to, you know, smooth the [laughter] this is amazing. This is why this is a great segway to to play actually.
Yeah, it actually is like it has everything. And this one has everything. I I missed this one when I was when [laughter] I was checking those.
I I just cannot look at the pull the pins things anymore.
No. Yeah, my god,
it's too much. I I think even for player it's in the app icon, right? It's in the app icon. They have the character. What is his name with the with the pin?
Austin. Austin. Yeah.
Has actually anyone made the game with the pins?
A successful game.
It's so it's in the player player.
Okay.
Is okay if this is true. I was once told maybe this is some myth, but I was told that player had those ads first, then people started complaining so much that they started adding it to the game. Right. That's that's actually the story. Okay. I wasn't sure if that was just

some sort of
Yeah, the story. I mean the story goes back to when they when they when they bought the the minority share in Hero Wars in Xers and Hero Wars was pretty much like doing all the pull the pin creatives and it was working so well like they scaled dramatically and then player saw it and like oh my god like this is working really well and then 2018 suddenly you see Austin in the river in like a random boat with sharks and pull the pin kind of puzzles in there and then you see it in township and you see it in fish dome. pretty much like everywhere.
And since then, yes, people were complaining, oh my god, like what the [ __ ] is this? I don't I don't see it in the game.
But then they started implementing it obviously, so people can't complain. It's it's fake.
That is nice. It's listening listening to users feedback, right? That's that's right.
I mean, well, you know, if people about like too much and it's working really well on the UA side, well, then you need to do something.
So, now the promised segue to uh to play Ricks. So I have this very blurred and ugly question for you guys. One of them

is township, one of them is gardens games and one of them is our homescapes. So you guess I will reveal it right after you you guess it.
I mean
so what you go first because I know already I can see it there. I can see it there.
So Austin is only in the second and the third one, right? So one of those two needs to be homescapes.
Yes, exactly.
I'll go with the second one. Homescapes.
Close but not enough. Did I say I meant third one? Sorry.
Exactly. [laughter]
Okay. So, third one. And then the other one was township, right?
Yeah. Township. Yeah.
I mean it will be nice if you will tell like fish dome but no it's township.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So this is this is what was I mean I again I'm not inventing something new here or basically we are this is this is old old stuff but this is something that actually I would praise them for like you have very strong templated work that we keep repeating even with material like have your let's say core loop templated you know logos on the template

same CTA same loops everything but for me as a again for a user that I don't play these kind of games when I was just you know playing one by one I was after a couple of minutes like which one am I now in like I even I was lost uh and I'm not sure is it good thing is it bad thing no idea how this franchise is connected and everything so tell us have you listened to the to the episode we did with for township
yeah which was so I mean that's that's your answer so pretty much what township is right now is is not the farming game anymore it's match three with the far with farming/ simulation on boarding. So they they really turned it around. So it makes all the sense for them to use township playables for gardens caves and homescapes because they know like this is working so well in terms of the UA4 township. Then like they're trying to kind of replicate this for garden caves and homescapes. Most probably it's not going to be as effective as they're like pull

the pin like freezing families and what what not like this type of [ __ ] creatives. still like they obviously if they already have this for township and it's working super super well for years why not to try it for garden scapes right like because people are already used to see this is township and they know what are they getting maybe if they actually also tried the like a small like iteration of the onboarding in garc and homecapes and add like little bit of something from township there like maybe it's going to work better but that's just I think too complicated but I think like this this is why they're doing
also mind you like the playables already built, right? So it's like
exactly
it's like they probably this is like a a properly built playable like it's it's built in in an engine or in JavaScript or whatever. So it's like it's such a waste not to do this which
can can I just rant about that a little bit? Like everyone should be doing that. I don't know why no one is is using this approach. It's so so simple. It's so stupid and like you have a playable

doesn't work and it was like okay let's start over now and what are we going to do this is the and if you have a playable that works you need to you know squeeze it as much as you can can get everything out of there build different iterations just swap out assets it's so simple I don't understand why everyone is not doing this already
I mean but that's that's exactly the thing that we're talking about like that's what I'm calling templated playables or however you want to call them like this this is exactly that I think as well like uh If you see your winner, if you see that this is this is you know working out for you that you should definitely try and explore more. I was actually even I don't want to say so bored with some of them but since you know it was my job to go through a lot of them. Uh I actually even invented my own mini games in a couple of them where I was uh trying to block these guys that were doing stuff for me. I was like ah no I I get that you know flower for you and you know it was so I mean you can you can even invent new mechanics there if you want. But what do you mean in terms of uh Robin that you said like why

nobody else is doing it more like you think this specific let's say type of playable or the templated approach that you have one
engine stuff? No, I mean just building it in engine.
Yeah. Whether whether you're using the engine, whether you're using a template tool, it's just so easy. If something works, just swap out the assets. Like this can be a playable at night, this can be a Halloween playable, this can be a Christmas playable. You can just you can get so much out of this one playable build, right? And only a few that I know are doing this and everyone should be like it's it would be such a waste not to.
Also, you add more more space there. You can you can you know just enlarge the the whole map. You can put more buildings there. You can be like shorter longer whatnot. I mean still under 5 megabytes but they're already like so much like they're doing this for years. So it's so optimized by now like they they can do a lot of stuff. Andre is exactly what we are doing right now with with Erica and and Adrian like pretty much like building the whole scene in Unity. We just did it like we pretty

much like captured few videos out of that scene and turned it into a playable as well. And I mean like like efficient efficient really. Even with that one, the one you just showed, what's super cool to do, because I've seen that happen in the engine, um, is you can just change the axis of the camera and you know that isometric view you have, that can be like a third part, like a third person view as well or like top down. And that like really changes the the the look of the playable and the feel of the playable. And it's again, it's just the same build. It can take you an extra like 10 minutes to change the camera angle and have everything set up properly. But
Andre, which reminds me like we can do this with Martin for Robot Breaker and the playable he already built just like different camera angle and then you that's that's it. If that's possible.
Yeah, that's true.
Which should be
and suddenly you have way more iterations.
These play balls are also crazy long by the way. Like
you can play that like I I was so surprised like I was playing the other

day and it's like some are like two minutes like two three minutes. is and like you it's sad that the the progress you cannot carry it over because it like I already played the demo and I just wanted the
like you do it like a Final Fantasy demo and you can just carry over the the progress into the real game.
Yeah. But but like what how would you then then do it from like the technical perspective, right? like it's you could potentially do it with the deep link I guess that you can kind of transfer whatever. I guess it would be artificial kind of or made up whatever resource that you do because then it would be super technically complex to actually even like do it. But I I I'm I'm with you. I think it would be cool if you could be like, okay, in this example, right, of homescapes, you can kind of, I don't know, choose your character's outfit, whatever, or ch do your first upgrade, right? You have to fix the floor or choose your chair that you sit in, and then you have that plus the money you earned, right? The coins that you earned in the playable carryover. Um, I think that would be pretty cool. Even cooler if you would already be able

to in the playable say like, "Hey, what's your player name?" you you write down Robin and then next time you open the game, you will be greeted with the whole thing. You have your outfit, you have your name there and maybe the coins you already collected. But
I had this idea pretty much at the beginning of the year if like all of these what you just mentioned would be pretty much happening, let's say on web, right? So you you go from a potentially like shorter playable, you you land on web and then you kind of continue playing the the playable which would be pretty much demo but it would be on on web because then you can do the web to app kind of uh shenanigans and different different options and then exactly you play it for five minutes. You you potentially you could even pay for your like a starter pack there and you leverage your web store. [laughter] So, I mean that's even that's even better than just capture more web revenue. Did anyone say web revenue? Oh, yeah. This episode is brought to you by Fastpring, the no drama D2C partner that's been

scaling with mobile publishers for over 20 years. They're fast growing, profitable, and seriously reliable, which is more than you can say about most vendors in this space. Anyway, whether you're launching a new web store, replacing your current D system, or adding a backup plan, Fast Spring is here for you. Visit fastspring.gg to set up your web store today. Fastpring.gg. Hello, Fastpring. Thank you very much, guys, for sponsoring this episode. So again, I don't know like if it's like too complex or people just don't care, but like this would be just a per perfect world. Definitely like interesting for for like expanding this.
Yeah, I think like even in a company like Unity where we have all that, right? Where we have a network, we have an engine, we have a playable

production, it just it's technically maybe complex, but it's also just a part of like everyone is doing their thing, right? and the network is focused on the network, the playables are focused on the playable and then to get everything together like that's that's quite an operation on itself already. So I think there's there's that plus the technical part plus you know where do we put the efforts versus where do we get the most value and then probably investing in something like a machine learning model is is worth it more than than doing that.
Yeah, but that's the long playables that we talked about last time like you know this is never ending. This is my mini game that I was trying to be just faster than this guy. You're still playing
and uh I'm doing
I'm doing it for three minutes. Still haven't lost the game. So, you know,
but you still but you have still like you have maxed out the
I know, but it keeps it he keeps ruining this tulips for this guy and he's like, "Oh, no." So, yeah.
I would imagine you to the store now already, right? If this is a real
Exactly. Yeah. Right. In the real world.
Yeah.
Yeah. I I mean we were talking about it

with the magic store last time like they have this play not this playable but you know this kind of unlimited or very long playable and and they trigger multiple versions with you know after first click after a couple of clicks then almost before the the final stuff is happening almost so but I never seen it here which I'm not sure if it's good or bad and we cannot really say I guess they know what they are doing but it's really endless and I'm I'm not sure if
but how can you make this like possibility they will I will be still installing the game and and willing to play, you know.
No, like that's the that's the thing like I was talking to Gonzalo from from Boom like a long time ago and he also said like look I know it's counterintuitive but like longer the players like play actually and stay in the play like they're like a higher chance of then kind of turning into really high like hardcore players and high high payers. So there is a correlation between like how long are you actually in the game or in the [clears throat] playable and even like uplavin says like the same thing like 60

seconds plus or whatever and then longer dur the duration is definitely connected to the kind of pre-qualifying the users.
Yeah, we see the same on on Unity as well. And what's even crazier to me is that some of these playables are the end card from a 30-cond video. So, they've already watched the 30 secondond ad and now they're playing the other like I don't know like like like you now like 3 minute ad as well which is crazy. And also like if I look at my son sometimes he plays a game and he's just going for the rewarded and he's just playing like six different playables and that's him playing a game like he just enjoys playing the different playables.
Yeah,
maybe that's a good idea. Maybe we should have a Tik Tok and then every time you scroll it's just another playable and we just uh it could be a good idea maybe. I think there was a product for it. I cannot say the name because I can't remember it, but there was there was there was some guys trying this kind of like Tik Tok for playables where everything is just a playable and you can Okay, now
there you go. Now now you're done.

Now so if you will not be doing stuff that I will be doing probably in one minute you will you will achieve that. the different levels. Again, nothing new to you guys, but you know, for example, just modifying this uh this last step if it will be for 500 bucks or for 50 bucks and know triggering the the update sooner or later and making more faster and simple. So, a lot of lot of things to do there. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh
can you do the fro like freezing families? I think it was one of the one of
Well, you have any of these like uh on the top of the ones that you just had like those
I was actually this specifically I was already playing. So I think this is this is this is quite one. So we going
I I think also here with the long playables the same is true as we said with the templates. You might as well just build the long playable and then from there cut it at different points and then make different iterations. Right? So you have the shorter one for wherever whatever network supports that better. you then have the longer one for wherever that works better. So you might

as well just produce that three minute gameplay playable anyway and then just go from there and you can cut out the beginning, you can cut out the end, you can just play around with it and do so much just from one playable build. I mean we get like pretty big push back for the long playables in like on LinkedIn in my some of my comments. People are like, "Oh my god, like this is every like you're you're look you're watching 60cond videos and then then you're playing this for 5 minutes and it's just like the bottom of whatever like ah it's terrible." I said, "Well, terrible for who?"
I guess they're just not the audience. I mean, it's the same when I tell like I'm a gamer. I guess some of you are as well. And I'm like, I'm not making a purchase for gems, you know, just to when I hit a payment when I hit a payment wall in a game and I need to do this upgrade now I pay five bucks and now suddenly I made it. Like that's not gaming to me, right? So I'm not the audience, but there's so many people that will. And it's the same with the playables. It's just just because you're not the audience doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Definitely

works.
I checked this one. I'm not sure how how it's in Unity, Robin, but I I remember quite good that it was forbidden in most of the networks. You cannot have this kind of for example audio triggers and audio elements on the screen visible. So it needs to listen to events like if the device is actually logged and after the first click you can play the music but you should not be able to have like this kind of UI. So this one is interesting as well. I think I think it should listen to the device first, but then the button can be there. So you can kind of override it manually, but this changes like every six months because then they figure out like the the are lower or the performance is better. So now we add that in there and then suddenly they're like, "Oh, it's not allowed anymore." And then
but the performance is good for so it can also be like there's some exceptions there. I think it's the same with like auto redirecting users to the store which was also not allowed but then during hyper casual was was working pretty well to get users to the store

automatically so then it was kind of allowed so I don't know like it's hard to keep up with that. Yeah, that that's what usually is happening quite a lot like that people are asking for questions and things that are officially kind of not allowed but you know they are working so I always tell them like okay if it's working and you know it's working if if the ad you will get some warnings or something then you can deal with it you know later so
I also don't understand how the approval works like you like
you submit it you you cross your fingers and then
I like the some like the most wrong playable it goes through and then you have something where like it's just a gameplay thing and it doesn't go through because some some reason or you know
some policy that you're uh
you're not meeting.
No, I remember I remember a lot of source I think now I can tell them because they don't exist anymore. It was iron source. I think uh that u when we were starting a couple of years ago, we had a long long issue with with something not working and then they sent us a video and it was clear that the person was testing it on unsupported

iPhone like 10 old 10 years old iPhone or something like that like huh okay we just didn't know that we should support these in some sort of resolution or something was just very specific like
they were only saying like oh it doesn't work like what the [ __ ] like what do you mean doesn't work and then this was the issue
I think they have to do that I'm not sure but I think they like this certain devices that need to be supported. Even though like
well it makes sense you know they probably you know everybody's reading data and if if you know that uh how which devices are sold and used across the world that's those are the ones that you will be supporting with your you know ad network or game or whatever it is right
I like this playable by the way I think it's really cool the part that you also go swimming I think it's a nice nice touch
I mean that's the only thing which is connected to fishome actually the water and the swimming
in in all the fish dodom it's basically still the same sorry for the word templated or basically the the game engine that you mentioned, but but the the difference is that it's always about swimming or you know something like that because

the tulips won't run for you.
Yeah.
Yeah. Another another thing we did with with an advertiser at um at PlayWorks or Luna at the time I think is you finish this playable and then you say pick next level and then the next level you have like four tiles and it's like I don't know like winter there's something scary something else whatever and whichever one they pick that's the next playable. So whichever one they pick the most we have the tracker for that and then it's like okay that's going to be the next playable
which uh Okay,
nice. Yes, that's that's a great uh that's a great information.
I was it's it's not exactly the same story, but I was encouraging one customer and they they eventually did it to create a playable with I think like four levels because it was simple game something like puzzle or something that you will easily fit four levels inside of one playable. And then basically we did very good thing with them that okay now make another versions of these but you know after the level is finished go to upto then after second then after

third you know and then all of a sudden you just don't have just one but you know same playable can be you know 10 playables in in couple of seconds
don't matter which which tool you are using for that
but uh you know this is this is something that a lot of people are missing when they're thinking about like what should I create next like as you can see in these examples it's not just about what but just you know where will I cut it how which I will let the user to play. What will I add? What will I leave? And let's say it's not creating new from scratch.
What we always recommend is if you have trouble with deciding, okay, what's the next playable? There's a few sources, right? You look at your best performing videos. You look at your best performing past playables. You then look at competition, look at what's trending, and you you borrow some inspiration from there.
Yeah, of course.
Um and you can look at what's working well in your game. And some studios have this whole methodology for it. I know you spoke about it also in the in the last episode where you have like so much percentage like 80% focus on the the

real gameplay and then there's 20% which goes into that right which is just making a new playable based on a video or making a new playable based on what the competition is doing or just random crazy ideas and and that's I think a very good approach and again I know one studio they have two different like different responsible people in the team one is just doing the gameplay play playables. The other one is just doing the the
crazy stuff,
the authentic crazy stuff.
And what's funny is that engagement rate is quite similar for both of them, right? So they everyone is playing the playables. So that's fun. For the nonauthentic ones, the CTR can sometimes be double. Rowas on the other hand, again, right, that can be similar, but um or it can the other one will be higher. the authentic one will be will somewhat higher but I think there is a fine balance there where you can really even the non-authentic playables can sometimes work better on rowas so%

if you're thinking about like hey we shouldn't do this as a studio you're wrong you should
absolutely should yes absolutely should and I totally agree because then the like finding the balance obviously like hard no [ __ ] sherlock but you can have a good playable which is scalable and even if you kind of sacrifice a little bit of ROAS maybe or lower game KPIs and get higher scale and more players into the game then you have higher chance of just getting more players eventually. So I'm yeah I'm definitely all for that. But I remember like a couple of years ago there were like this like don't do anything in playables which is not connected to game. It's a very no no. And then and then like you see all the fake playables and fake videos and whatnot and it's like okay what the [ __ ] I'm supposed to do?
Yeah. Yeah. And there's also some companies that have like more like a brand image around it and then they definitely don't want to do that. I think it's fine. I think again right there is a fine line or balance you need

to find. I think you should in any way try it and see what
100% 100%.
Are you still all right Andre? just playing everything that's out there.
This is No, this is great because you know like you have the visuals and you have all the different playables that they are doing and we are kind of talking on the on the back [laughter] of the country is playing.
No, you would be surprised. I'm not making any business out of this but uh I was asked at least three times after we did the first two episodes that can you actually find my competitor in sensor tower because you have the access to it and just share me the screenshots of what they are doing. I was like I don't know like let's see.
Yeah. No, no, no, no. It's it's good to look at something while
Yeah, let's a little bit more about like we talked a little bit about like best practices, things you should definitely try. Um, again, the non-authentic playables.
Now, there's so much around the production, right? Especially with AI, everyone's like, "Oh, we want to produce faster, quicker, better, whatever."

To me, it's like there's so many studios out there now that are like, "Oh, production can be faster. we can do all of this, but I'm like, where's the where's the foundation? Where's the knowledge of like how to design a pro playable? Where do you get the ideas from? What what does a good hook look like? What does a good reward system look like? How do you send a user to the store without frustrating them? And I'm like, there's so much of this knowledge which I feel sometimes is lacking while you're looking. It's like, how do we produce more? How do we do that? We can now vibe code. I'm like, "Yeah, you can, but it, you know, it doesn't mean it works." Like, I probably in theory am very good basketball player because I understand how that works. It's, you know, you need to you need to do that groundwork of like with a with proper designers and, you know, analysis of the playables and look at the competition and have like a game design document whenever you build a playable where you have some sort, I don't know, a number of principles that you follow. And to

me, I'm like, it's this is again, if we look at someone like Player Rigs, why does this work? Well, it's because they do that. They have that solid foundation. They understand where do we start a playable with? What does the progression look like? What's how do we make it juicy as well, right? Like you have this big stack of like money on your back or whatever it is, flowers on your back, like the juicy part, like like they understand the the basic principles of what makes a playable good. And once you have that, you can talk about, okay, can we do something with VIP coding? How can we scale this? Right. But I feel like so many studios right now are missing that foundational first part. Yeah, of course. Because they it's like it's you don't realize or they like people don't realize like this is still a mini game. It still needs to have kind of like you said progression or revert system or a loop pretty much and it needs to make sense and needs to be still motivate the players to actually play the game eventually. And if it sucks and you don't have the principles then you're just clicking somewhere.

It's like h okay fine whatever and that's it. which eventually you will not not gain on playables but lose on playables if you don't know like how to do it properly.
Yeah. But still I think it's something very close to what Robinson said like there will be probably teams that has all these knowledge and all these teams eventually it doesn't matter if they will be vi coding the playable or using you know the tools for it or or you know doing them inhouse they have the knowledge and they will probably do everything right. But then there are smaller companies you know sometimes one person companies that are trying to do playables and you know there they are you very often our customers as well that's why I'm I don't I don't know if AI is just making you a little bit like you expect it to to think for you as well but you will be surprised that I I get these questions from time to time as well last week eventually actually that uh they were very happy with playable that they voded in our tool and they said like okay but I want the hook there I Well, you need to tell AI what hook

you want and it will insert it like it will not just say like oh Robin I you did nice level and now I will make a hook for you
had the hook.
Oh yeah that's that's true. Well yeah I mean so it's not just the knowledge might even be there but sometimes you just somehow expect everything to be done automatically. That will be the the important topic that I think you started the whole idea with it like what's what's going to be with the future with the tools that everything is automated everything will be done for you like eventually they will be reusing the same hooks because they will be measuring the same data that is that are happening and some someone needs to come and create new stuff and you know give the create the new hooks as well right and then you know they will be again reused and repeated and done again but again somebody will need to come and create something new so it will never die off
so the prompt cannot be make a playable that performs well. It's not going to work
only if it's that that easy. What's the What's the the the meme that you know the like the couple like head

GPT make 10 10 ideas business fast no no no investment needed no investment needed
fast day 24 hours high return so
high return exactly
it's not working like that yeah
on the other hand I do think there is a future I don't know if it's near if it's far away where where the the prompting and everything is happening in the game engine and where it will where it will take everything from the game and even the data as well right where it can say like hey if this is uh garden scapes right now people enjoy level 10 because of this data points we know that that's the case this is the playable for you which is just representing level 10 right and then it will start somewhere where you still have to you know do the finishing touches to make it an actual playable but I I think there is going to be some future where the playables will be generated from the game engine. I'm seeing this maybe next year because why not? I mean, you have pretty

much like the exponential curve of the of tools right now. You can do a lot of stuff with uh with cloud and codex. I don't think it's perfect yet, but it's almost there. And if you look at what Cens 2 did like a couple last couple of months like the whole video AI AI video production just exploded thanks to one model
thanks to one. Also mind you when like maybe like two three years ago it was when we were just talking to Chy PT and it was like oh you know like we ask it something and it answers us that's so amazing you know so
it's it's definitely true that this this will exponentially uh develop.
Yeah but a lot of people you know that's that's what I was saying a lot of people kept stuck there like they expect they just give a question and receive a final answer and you know believe it. So let's see. I mean I'm I'm I completely agree with Mat that probably in a year you will be able to connect different tools your game engine whatever is playable engine and stuff like that and

eventually it will just it can in that case do something just automatically
but
but yeah I mean
you actually gave me an interesting idea now
you're not going to share it here. Okay, I understand.
No, not yet. Not yet. I'm usually I'm usually sharing uh stuff when I have at least something which is working.
Yeah.
But now I have it in my head. Okay. Anyway, I mean even like I think even like from one month from now uh when we when we record the next month episode, it's going to be already like a huge improvement from where we are at the moment.
Yeah. See, I'm the only thing that not concerns me, it doesn't concern me, but that I'm just being like questionable about the AI future and everything is just the cost. Like I have no idea at this moment like where and when will we achieve the point where people will be actually saying like okay will I do this with my you know developer or or will I use the tool for it. So it can slow down the automation because the automation itself in the end can be very expensive

if the prices will go as as the way that I think they will go. So, it might be a stopper for some, but let's see.
Let's see. I think we we covered pretty much everything we we should.
Please, I don't want to play any more playable songs.
No, I'm I'm just Yeah, I I want I want you to play more. I want you to play more. And Robin, thank you very much for coming. I mean, this this was great. And it's really I can see like when we are talking with an expert of on playables I see the the level of discussion is just like 10x from from when you're talking to a person that have have a team that maybe sometime in the past made the playable. So you're asking right questions and also adding really valuable insight. So, thank you very much for coming and also listeners, thank you very much as well for watching this video and comment under the video in the comment section what you think about the playables and if you like playing these and whatnot and see you next time. Thank you very much.

Thank you guys. Cha cha. Bye.