two & a half gamers session #30 - survivor.io global launch case study UA, GD, Admon view

[Music] welcome everybody this is no [ __ ] gaming podcast to have Gamers session number 30 discussing latest news having fun and dropping knowledge still let's not forget this is forign conference discussion Vibe let's not take it too seriously uh and we are not serious because yakob even shut down his camera because he's still in the co Cottage Place CO's Cottage undisclosed location biological Hazard which means we have yier here without the video so there's no delay as the last time Felix braber here and myself M welcome how are you you know Ma Ma I got a couple of messages saying Remo looked so good without his glasses last week cuz that was the first time we actually recorded when he was not wearing any glasses no well really I

didn't even realize yes because they were they were right next to me forgot about them there you go I'm just more vain I'm just more vain than you man that's that's why I even realize okay well good well now I can you know you know what I I will do I will draw a picture of you with the glasses and just put it on on YouTube face even better than the screen saber dud it even better yeah of course uh so we always have the fourth member which is the screen saver thank you very much uh mate for creating that and uh when I say mate I don't talk about myself in third person it's actually my motion designer it's always fun when I explain people and uh for those listening who have not been to Slovakia pretty much everyone in Slovakia is called either ma or Jack no not really I mean it's Martin actually it's Martin

Mar or and then we have I think like three mates in the gaming industry in Slovakia one is me and the other one is uh is my motion designer and the other mate is also motion designer but uh and I think it's Frey Artist as well but nevertheless we are here today to talk about what else then survivor.io Global launch case study because when he when these two guys went to Gamescom and I stayed home I wrote a global launch case study for Navi newsletter and uh and then published it on my website as well and well I'm pretty surprised about how great it's it's been doing so I figured that we could actually talk about this on the pot from the UA point of view ad monetization point of view and the game design as well because well I

expect this game to be making like 500k a day on LS which already Felix told me it's [ __ ] oh man like oh I've been wanted to say how wrong you are since like I read that blog you're so wrong but we'll get there get we'll get there we'll get there so so let's not talk about any news it's been an interesting week obviously with all the Snapchat layoffs and whatnot but let's let's not go there let's start with the Survivor IO but if you want to share how was your week before we do that please do so my week was actually pretty busy to be honest and busy is good busy is good week from Hell let's just get started okay okay uh think is great you know the co cotage is working perfectly and everything is you know nice and shiny here you have like mushrooms growing I'm

I'm going to propably go mushroom hunting right after the podcast really I hope to hope you can get some mhm fun ones yeah although I'm not sure if you you're going to eat those but that's it's fine it's fine uh so also guys thank you very much for sending me all the feedback uh it's still like pretty positive and uh you're also subscribing on the YouTube channel and Spotify and Apple so please keep doing that we really appreciate it all right let's uh let's start with the survivor.io and also um thank you very much for highlighting that I'm really speaking uh well not as loud as I should so I will try to be loud as [ __ ] this time okay so what survivor. iio it's an action adventure game uh which was developed by Hobby and this is developer behind the the great mobile game hit

called archero they released pball they released ker run and Survivor iio requires you to take the mantle of a hero out of the out to save the city from a zombie apocalypse so you are the only of the few survivors left in the city it's up to you to save the human Humanity so this is simple yet unique game which is uh minimalistic 2D Graphics it's really immersive gameplay experience I love it personally we yesterday talked about it with one of our friend he said he he's not a very big fan of it I'm not sure how is it even possible because this is super addictive this is super addictive you have to deal with large hordes of zombies they're always trying to outnumber you surround you and kill you there's uh the level level levels are

based on time so every five minutes you're seeing an a boss that is again trying to kill you and uh unfortunately you can level up yourself and choose different skills which helps you obviously to um to progress through the game so have you played it as uh is me or what do you think about the game guys love it it's so much fun it's so addictive as soon as you said we were going to be doing this analysis I started like playing it and played it quite a lot and I'm been playing at least two or three rounds a day easily yeah could we were saying yeah I would say it's it's definitely an upgraded version of archero and U you can see it in the design itself that what they did is that they took out the blank spots or pretty much the slow spots from archero where running around

the corridors exiting a room going into another room or having that skill automat pretty much plays in your face so they pretty much cut all of these kind of slow not that full of action parts and just slash it into this kind of a much more action pack game where it's pretty much the same I would say uh you don't have corridors you have this kind of endless space bosses still spawn and the monsters are still getting harder and harder as you progress so that the formula stays the same also this kind of a r Glide automat of you choosing between three skills that you need to kind of start following in some kind of a pattern to build a build uh as as you progress so that's that's all pretty much the same but it's much more faster and I would say it's showing on the engagement definitely that we can see even from the data that survivors is making more money on iaps than archero was making during the global launch yeah that's a that's an interesting uh

Improvement on the on the things so yesterday our friend Neil from mobile gamer. bis um took this case study and uh added some interesting numbers on top of it and it's he's saying that this is this game is already making like a million a day when I was writing this uh case study it was like 500k a day so it's already double and um yeah I don't even know like how it looks like from the ad perspective but we'll get there right so how and what are they doing on the UA side of things and from from what I check this is actually a amazing uh combination of multiple things so this is the minimalistic 2D graphics with immersive gameplay with a load loads of hordes and zombies so this in my opinion is is a great way of uh uh of seeing the results

from the marketability tests which obviously is the most crucial part and we talked about it uh in one of our episodes before and this allows you to gain like insights to you know to how well your mobile games Creative Concepts will perform during the UA and I've seen you know and worked with the different games uh using different types of creatives and there there are always some things that are in common I mean in common terms of the the best performance it's minimalistic design large hordes of units or crowds of people which you can see in the hyper casual games as well there's zombies and there is also like one hero versus a million whatever zombies tanks um units whatever so this is something that actually works quite well I've seen this as soon as we added zombies into dark fire heroes creative it worked super well when we did this uh

with battle Legion as well we just added like millions of zombies into the one creative which we called Mass battles and it was performing super well so I guess like if you combine these things into the game you have kind of like a winning formula and uh and I would like to continue our discussion from the last week about how to scale the game because you need to have uh the CPI versus LTV equation in mind so let's talk about the CPI and the UA part of the equation and I think Yak will talk about the C the LTV part of the equation afterwards so this is so this game um kind of what scales in uh Us South Korea Japan on iOS and then us Vietnam and Brazil in um in on Google Play but they started ramping up this uh

this scale and growth of the game like 9th of August which went from 10K daily installs to 100K daily installs and now it's is around like 400 and even 600,000 installs per day which is [ __ ] crazy is this is amazing this is really amazing so what are they doing at the moment is most probably like all the biggest channels out out there uh well they're not running anything on Snapchat and I don't I don't blame them but they're using Facebook Google Tik Tok Unity vangle iron Source app so yeah there's there there you have it almost everything and uh if you would need to guess what do you think would be the the biggest channel uh if you didn't know the answer already guys so let me guess here because it kind of matches who they advertise or like uh have their in up games with or

yeah monetize with I think Google is the biggest and Tik Tok and then app loving and then after that Facebook yeah yakob how about you any any guess and uh Felix is not that far away from truth my guess is if it's coming from China look for the answer in China yeah I know right so we still even though we discussed this uh this is all that we can see from the West uh we don't see anything from China and HBY is a Chinese developer which means in my book they are super big in China and they know how to do [ __ ] in China so uh yeah I would see easily like these numbers multiplied by at least like five maybe 10 but I'm maybe like too optimistic but yeah so it's not Google which is the the biggest channel it's actually Tik Tok then it's iron source and then it's Google so it was a big surprise for me when I

checked it and but when I actually checked it and then thought about it then I said like okay this is actually not a surprise at all because this game has everything it needs to have to succeed on on Tik Tok it's the minimalistic design and there's like the monetization strategy which I think it's I know it's more like skewed towards the Ina purchases but also having a loads of of ads in the game and immersive gameplay oh well okay okay we can talk about it you know like yesterday the guys said also like they they don't don't see or didn't see the Revival uh rewarded videos I I did we'll talk about that later don't don't okay sorry about that uh so yeah so I guess this game has everything it needs to to succeed on uh on Tik Tok let me let me say something here like so if iron source is that big that answers one of my questions because I was wondering if they're mediating with Appling ad mob or

iron Source but if they're one of the biggest UA Partners they're probably mediating with iron Source say so as well and uh I shared the case study with uh our friends at iron source to to get some data from their them let's see um if they can share something from their book I'm not sure but back to Tik Tok I opened up Tik Tok and the Tik Tok is just flood with survival iio videos everybody's making those uh like having the headlines they're like oh well now I have the Gatling gun I can kill everybody there like they they're sharing the the best builds for surviving the the most and even if you look at the the Tik Tok um creative Gallery out of 10 top performing ads free in the last seven days when I was writing this three of them was just

survivor.io they just uh they are doing so well and they don't [ __ ] around because you know you just take whatever works the best everywhere and don't listen to all these like uh well I don't want to say fake but all these like best practices that everybody says you know you need to show real people in the in the Tik Tok messages and you need to create Tik toks not ads well [ __ ] it you just see here it doesn't need any of the real people at all you just you know if you if you have the winning creative it's going to win everywhere even on Tik Tok even on Google even on Facebook and all the other um U channels even ad networks they just combine the the hordes of zombies and it looks really amazing when you you are this like a little little guy surrounded by millions of zombies and trying to survive they're using the headlines and the hyper casual um uh

creatives and that's it that's super easy I mean of course they're trying to to work on the on the creative side and use all these like um motivations like progressions and power and expertise and they they use all of these in the in the creatives but uh they're not listening to any of the F fake uh best practices out there so there you go I will pause here so you can also speak about this and then I'm I'm going to continue because I I already spoke a lot I don't want to I don't want to be AUP in yeah I would say one one one really one really important fact that maybe people are kind of missing is that if you look at the account of HBY you can see that Survivor IO was first time released on September 3rd 202 so it's pretty much been in soft

lunch for nearly two pretty much tomorrow it will be exactly two years so even Karan and pmall were released much later so my guess is that yeah the thing that you see the Beast pretty much clocking these numbers we are talking about is not really something like like I I I remember M saying something like oh they just copied this game and the other game was done on Steam and like they already you know have the winning formula look so there there was this uh there was the discussion on on LinkedIn and in the G in the slack channels that uh this game is based on um vampire survivors on Steam which is super popular and well when I looked at the data it's just not like that popular in my book it's like having 7,000 conent concurrent players and some 50k whatever streamers on the on the twitch so if I compare that with like any any other game I I think like this is super small to have any impact uh on

this and if you say this game was um in the soft L for two years then well that's even that's even better yeah the steam game is released December 2021 there so it doesn't make any sense they copied they copied the Survivor there you go in your in your face most good probably in your face yeah but anyway what you can see from their account and and it's kind of like a recurring pattern is that what hubby does great is that they build on their expertise and by expertise I mean their meta game of this kind of a hyper casual game where they run down the grow Glide metag game meaning that every run you accumulate resources and improve your character and then go on this kind of a progression of levels and abilities and a six slot inventory of a hero with merge like mechanics every other game

has that so what they're doing they're just pretty much Shifting The Core gameplay and fine-tuning it to to the best and how I would guess it is that even the whole company operates on on the premise that there are kind of multiple teams because you don't really need that big of a team to kind of just iterate the core gameplay if you already have the meta game building so probably those are just teams competing against each other with just different core game plays because kjaan for instance is a runner so we much more closer to something like subway Surfers and the pum ball thing is pretty much like a pinball mini game again like could be just a different team iterating within their own internal kind of engine and tools so really what they're doing is the I would say the most efficient strategy in free topl meaning that the frequency of the tries or the lottery tickets is the thing that matters so as you increase the frequency the better chance you have of winning this lottery so I think they're doing it very efficiently and yeah this is just and them collecting the reward now man you

and your lottery tickets I'm going to so how much are they currently spending every day on UA I have a question that idea that's the thing we don't know I mean uh it can be it can be in hundreds of thousands per day that's my assumption that's my assum let's just say let's just say hypothetically like let's say they're for argument sake they're spending 700k a day right now how does a game like habby like spend and 700k when they get paid net 30 for ads and net 30 for the App Store earnings net 45 do they get UA funding or is it like they have so much capital in the game like how does that usually work you have five four games in your portfolio you're earning the the money from and you have the money from rero which is still like making shitloads of money so you can you can use those money or that money so you don't think these guys need any like UA funding or anything like that no no also and I don't think so look so they're Chinese

company do you think Chinese companies take funding from any Western Funding companies I don't think so no no yeah there you go so they're using their own money and uh and this seems like uh the the payback period is short really really short because uh the the hockey stick we can see in terms of the revenues it's just like uh even even even if it's it's better than archero I still remember these rumors that arero had like 80% day one retention whatever and like really really low cpis which makes sense because it was a very like new game basically and this is very similar so I guess the CPI is super low in that case the LTV you know if they're making million a day and spending even if they're spending 700,000 they're getting the money back very quickly and I know in terms of the cash flow it's not landing on their account but they

have the money that's that's my assumption that's my assumption of course Fair yeah so yeah let's let's speak about the admon stuff and I'm going to then talk about the creatives and the the UA Channel mix obviously diversifying everything but now you can see like there it's pending everywhere basically so much admon you're wrong go ahead and said it ah you're wrong about your ad Revenue prediction of 500k you can't say you don't know because you don't see the Chinese data dude I don't know I don't okay so basically I was just about to say the one caveat here is that I don't have access to Chinese data so I don't know right but I've played this game enough now so it's very fun it's for sure an IAP monster but I don't think it's a very big monster or at least like as we said outside of China

okay so why you go so I only think the ad revenue is about 12% of the revenue when it was on 500k a day so hear me out now so I have racked up about three or four hours of G time now and as good as the game is and novel and it's definitely an evolution like we said on our chero uh but it's missing some of our ch key rewarded ad placements so I managed the admon for two R cherro clones back in the day when I was working for a publisher and the key rewarded placements for these games were the like Reviving uh after watching an ad after you died and the kind of mid-level upgrade your weapon or get another weapon Choice basically these two ad placements accounted for 80% of rewarded Impressions and Survivor is missing like both of these go it's you're wrong

because I'm getting that at placement almost every time I die and that's what I yeah that's what I said yesterday to yakob as well like hey I'm getting that placement I my ass was saved by that placement never going because you're most probably at the beginning of the game still I I saw that placement on I think like third or fourth chapter so not from the beginning Direct there you go so and I've seen it I saved my ass b i I have my model here on estimates so we can plug in like assuming that because basically the two Archer clones with those placements averaged a 4.1 Impressions per da with an ad viewer rate of 60% so let's just keep that in the back of our heads as we move on uh so uh so far uh in Survivor IO I've only seen three wed ad placements and they're always away from

the core gameplay but if you're saying it's in the core gam playay let's plug that in let's let's plug that in in my formula like afterwards because then we can actually work it out live here for our listen Okay so the ad placements I see was EDF supplies uh oneof ad placement to unlock 300 in gold and 5x energy to start levels okay so basically this leads me to assume that uh Impressions per da I guess for early players not later on players like yourself is two or 2.1 ad viewer rate I would assume is the same as the Clones so 60% so if we plug in the ecpm numbers we can start doing the maths on my assumption and we can plug it in for you so da I took from our favorite data provider so let's see what we have here so da I took on the day was on Android uh 1,700,000 people and viewer rate point6 impression per da 2.1 giving us

an impression per day of 1.3 million which on an average ecpm with this kind of geomix I put 18.7 on Android giving us 25.3k in revenue on Android iOS very good implementation also of L uh kind of opt in so I'm assuming 40% of users on iOS are idfa users 1.4 million iOS da same kind of AD metrics here giving us oh yeah ecpm L put 16 and idfa 27 because that's what I saw average last week on similar type of things so basically that would give us a total ad revenue of $61,800 like the ad sdks they currently have

integrated there's seven of them Unity Facebook admob app loving iron source vungle and pangle so if you have this kind of diu level I would expect you to have closer to 10 so what I would say is missing from this mix is probably DT exchange and mgal would for sure do some damage in this ad setup as well so that's like probably an extra like 10% on adarp out if they add that just straight across the bat so um basically I was going to talk now about the placements I would want to see to actually improve uh the ad Revenue so basically if I was in HBY I would push for come back to life as an ad placement uh and a rewarded video at the start of the level that would enable you to already upgrade your first skill and my kind of thinking here is first skill Choy comes comes around 15 to 20 seconds but if I could watch a rewarded out at the start I would totally do that to basically yeah boost my chances to

survive longer so those are the ones that I would push they have you to skill in the normal skill that you will get one more skill from the start exactly yeah exactly Yeah so basically uh if they have these placements right let's plug it in like right now so let's say that you have this end of the end impression per Dau so basically you have that one already right so Ma you see it how many times you click on it every time you have a session is it twice or one I guess one one time yeah one okay depends on if if I'm super loaded with all the skills and then uh nobody can touch me but the boss kills me right away all right so so assuming that you have one more so basically instead of 2.1 Impressions per du to 3.1 that would boost overall daily ad Revenue to $91,000 outside of China so sounds a bit more yummy so let's

assume then that they will also implement this starting rewarded out of placements because you never seen one of those right no not really okay yeah so that would bring it up to 4.2 Impressions per Dau and that would be around $123,000 a day in ad Revenue so I guess now they're making somewhere around 90,000 a day they could be making 123 if they put that new ad placement in as well uh so that would account so basically right now if they're making $123,000 a day that would mean that this game monetizes 25% roughly from ads and yeah I still believe it's it's more than that what I believe doesn't matter because you are the the one with the data and all the calculations of course exactly data is beautiful but I wanted

to ask Remo as well like do you think adding these two placements or one placement that they haven't added do you think that would have any like Implement Implement implications on the overall gameplay and make it worse um I would say would slow down on gameplay because even during the main tutorial you could see that they immediately want you to play like the whole intro is just like two screens or something like some rat jumping at some scientist and some zombies and then you immediately start play so I would rather put the rewarded video at the end of the level so you can get the fixed multiplier on the currency reward that you get out of the level because in the end they already have the same placement in the shop that you can go there and have like a free gold boost for an ad so that would kind of wouldn't interrupt the pacing that much in a way or if we want to really really be kind of to the game play of itself I would rather have

you have one more go at the golden train mechanic or pretty much like the lottery mechanic that increases your whatever load out that you have there so for an ad you can have let's say one more spin which it already pauses the game itself anyway for like let's say 5 to 10 seconds so there shouldn't be that big of a problem but definitely at the end of the level I would say that that would be like the golden shop there because you want to upgrade with the gold immediately and you're going out of the level and you are going to to upgrade and for me the most stingy thing in the whole game to be honest is XP that I'm getting very very low XP and it hinders currently my progress within the upgrade treat that I have tons of gold but I cannot upgrade anything because I'm not high enough level dude I I have like not enough gold at all and I'm always trying to get more gold to actually be able to upgrade my uh my skill tree and also um I forgot what what I was say are you speechless you're never

speechless I know I know right no yeah I I wanted to say that there is the the at least for me and it seems to me they're AB testing a lot on the ad placements because you are saying you are not getting those out plates I'm getting those and I'm maybe I'm just far from you guys in terms of the gameplay because I played it for longer time than you are so that's that's one thing also what's your level like actual level actual level like 14 or 15 okay okay you're very much further six please I'm fours [ __ ] noobs come on like can we just do this again when you actually play game play the oh I I play I played it for a lot because uh I saw those ads on Tik Tok because well we are on Tik Tok as well

two and a half Gamers and you have you know we have the Tik Tok account now and they're actually targeting me and um I also saw those ads on Facebook and then on Instagram as well and then in other games which brings me back to like uh what kind of um U channels they're using which is Tik Tok iron source which was a surprise but then uh when I thought about it it's not the big surprise because uh iron Source inventory has a lot of hyper casual games and these game stes to look as hyper casual so um you know it's really also they're probably mediating with iron source so they can utilize a data like that probably makes me yeah they must be on iron Source then otherwise that would be yeah the biggest ones yeah uh and then the third place is is Google and uh and also when I checked Unity on sensor Tower uh oh I I said it so when I when I checked it on on senser Tower I was seeing uh mostly on Unity

like mostly like Chinese creatives which is kind of like interesting because um usually when you use Unity you don't use Chinese creatives on different uh different GEOS and and then I actually was targeted by creative which was Chinese on Facebook as well I think they're using these worldwide campaigns with a very different uh language settings but yeah okay well you know if you are making one one million a day you can do whatever you want uh but um what what I wanted to say like this is like this game using all these channels is really amazing to see like how the UA landscape changed over the the past couple of uh months and year because when we always talked about like what are you using in terms of the the UA Channel mix it was always

Facebook maybe Google then here here and there some some ad networks now this game utiliz like almost all the big channels out there so this is very like very good UA Playbook that I think a lot of other UA teams can learn from and it's not always about Facebook and and Google anymore you know if you want to scale your game you need to run a profitable campaigns on multiple U us sources and diversify as much as you can uh or as much as your LTV allows you to do so uh which we talked about last week in the scale your game episode so so that's that and uh in terms of the creatives it's really interesting how have they added any ASMR creatives no no ASMR is my favorite I use the I only used it or talked about it uh few

episodes I definitely talk more about the UA divers diversifying the UA channels more than more than ASMR creatives but they just it looks like they use a lot of gameplay but when you play the game you know those creatives are actually fake they're they created their those creatives on the back end from their like level editor or whatever editor they they use uh because it's uh it's or maybe it's very like uh progressed gameplay from like chapter 10 whatever but it all comes back to really minimalistic design simple gameplay variations they are per perfectly crafted by the developer that's something that um comes into my mind they alter the game play to Showcase huge amounts of zombies use memes headlines and Hyper casual creatives and also they have fail

scenarios which means you play the game you lose you come back upgrade I I saw like they just immediately uh showcased all the best possible skills and U the items you can you can wear then come back to to the game playay and actually win plus the the skills upgrade Concepts and that's it it's super simple I mean simple as it sounds but then uh it's uh it takes a lot of hard work to actually create those and produce those you work the same came together if they would uh if they would launch the game in 2020 when it was first put up on the stores in the like you know before Corona time if if it would work of course I mean what's the difference between 2020 and 2022 it's still oh well okay you're right most probably most yeah exactly Tik Tok most

probably um the channel mix would be different which doesn't mean the game wouldn't fly because even Archer was launched back then in the in the good old days which is not that far away and that game just you know [ __ ] our minds so it would be just a different UA mix but it would still like uh be pretty successful because what happened in 20 like in between of 2020 and 2022 the player base just matured and moved from one channel to other channel and that's it or from one platform which is Facebook to another platform which is Tik Tok easy think we summed it up there ah did we well so what do you think uh where this could end or where this could Peak this game like what kind of like daily

revenue you think they will uh they will get ad placements once they finish this AB testing because now with that information that we're seeing different ad placements they're definitely testing it out meaning that they probably will end up somewhere around 4.2 to five Impressions per duu on a rewarded on non-payers so that probably will mean around 150 to 200k a day an ad revenue on this game if they maintain this da which probably will increase as well so I wouldn't be surprised if this could be one of these ones at is Peak making quarter of a million A Day In AD Revenue now I AP Revenue that's a bit out of my depth so I'll pass the ball on to you guys for that one what do you think yakob is this like I'm also very very curious where where where this will had regarding the design because if you remember the original archero what they did there is

they at some point started to add another hero or let's say multitudes of Heroes but this is like one of the problems of their whole model uh that roll Glide has that you can only use one hero at a time and that Hero has six slots which means your whole kind of a deck load out is confined to that six slot inventory so you can still add slot to that inventory and I think they even added that the pets in archero don't know if they were there from the start or not but they can started to increase the inventory slots but in the end then you were supposed to kind of have different Heroes so this game will probably suffer from the same problem that your inventory is pretty much your LTV and if you kind of want to upgrade something else on top of it you need either switch a hero or some kind of different thing but I would be really curious if they would have some kind of a really really proper PVP based on the io mechanic if you would be able to actually play The iio Arena PVP with your kind of Survivor character that

would be really interesting okay so how much do you think that could actually increase the LTV I think it could increase a lot like just you know remember the good old times of the games like whole IO or all these other kind of agario and pretty much the hyper casual craze that was all based on this kind of a PVP even though half or pretty much most of it were BS but it was really really engaging back then so I I still think it could kind of give them a lot uh like LTV increase but yeah let's see because my guess is that it won't fly this way and they will probably do the same thing as with archero that uh they don't want to increase the depth of the mechanics rather than just itemization will take on more and more power as you grind through the levels and they pretty much need to throw stronger enemies at you m okay well I'm pretty optimistic I would

say they can end up on like two or three million a day um not sure what the China Revenue will be but let's say yeah let's say uh you're muted Felix let's say it's going to be like anything between two to five meal a day and that's super optimistic if we are seeing like now like one million uh one million a day with China numbers I I don't know but I'm still kind of skeptical if it can get higher than archero because it's already higher than archero like I've seen like 800k a day or something just in iips so my guess is if accounting ad Revenue it's like maybe they can go even to 1.5 alog together but I wouldn't think so it can go that much higher because the download seems to stabilize a little bit so if there's not some kind

of viral sensation or some kind of external Factor hitting I guess they're kind of Hit the hit the peak and then if if you look at the archero profile it's pretty much just downhill from from this point on not that like the downhill is bad like they're still making millions a month of course but it's it's not going to go up anymore okay all right then uh I think with that in mind uh thank you very much for listening we are definitely looking forward to hear from you feedback and see you next time bye-bye see you [Music]