The debating game

[Music] [Music] could I get you guys to introduce yourselves and who you are that would be a great step we could do is it work yes there we go hi I'm Dean I am founder of green light games which started about four years ago as a games mobile games developer and has now changed to a mobile games publisher and we do small projects to get investments and you a funding and we're also expanding to PC console switch DeHoff and anything goes you can get games on basically we have force which titles hopefully coming by end of q2 this year and free VR titles

coming by q3 this year does this one work oh it does work I can hear myself hi I'm Satara I'm the senior producer at dream reality Interactive we are an indie studio making VR and AR games I'm formerly from sumo digital and EA and I think I'm Keisha irani self-employed I work for myself so I think I'll be able to say anything I want and nobody yay and I've been in the industry 22 years now I've worked for Sony before that for straight eight years before that was Microsoft all engineering and technicals of magic divisions and techno Raptor olds and right now I'm also as a voluntary chair of gaming games which is the black Asian and ethnic minority in video games industry and as well as on the board of women in games sorry the mic wasn't on

but that's fine I'm sure you heard me okay okay so in case you didn't hear kisses the chair of Bayman games representing the black Asian and minority ethnic community within the games industry I happen to be the vice chair of booming games as that is coincidence there was that here next to each other is not intended just coincidence I will so to see founder of Digital Jam I have a long and illustrious career in the games industry amongst other things and I have worked with all sorts of wonderful lovely people like Jagex a mine candy and harsh and relentless and I just keep on going on bore everybody witless but they go go you have a massive podcast you should mention that yes alright and I also have a podcast called the digital jam sessions which goes out to about seventeen and a half million ish people give or take I'm Adam and with no coincidence at all I also happen to be vice-chair at baby games so

we've got quite a contingency during the day I'm game production manager at Azumi the safe entertainment advocates which combines games videos audio books in a nice fun environment I've also had previous Falls a Jagex Sega mini clip been going strong for about ten years so I've been around I'm going deaf my name is Mike I'm a developer advocate at Amazon and nothing I say up here actually represents the official views of amazon.com nothing at all he ever that says on this in this panel so actually I'm up here in my capacity as sole proprietor of Liberty crate gave a t-shirt company and I actually do represent myself in that in that capacity so we're ready to go awesome so let's get on with the rules

the rules are as follows each team will have about three teams we have the blue team and the red team each team will have three minutes to make their case they're not choosing what their case is by the way I've chosen for them what their case is and they have to make it so it's important to realize that the reason what we're saying the reason why we're saying that that these people are not going to be held accountable for they say is because we want them to make the case regardless so arguments do not do not represent anyone's opinion you guys get to vote and you're voting on who makes the best case and funniest works best case regardless but I'm happy to accept funniest the team with the most votes wins I get to choose if it's a tie or if I think it's close enough or frankly if I feel like it that's loud and the whole point of this is that it's all for the important

promise you we don't have a prize it's all about prestige so I might buy them all beer later but that's another subject in fact I probably will end up buying you most of you beer anyway because that's my life let's get on with it unless because obviously we're in a rush to throw it well to make this entertaining what made this fun and obviously feel free to heckle heckling is allowed and agreed okay in case anybody's confused on which site to register its to charge but there's always it make it easier for you to decide okay sure know what is singing later right are you ready question one develop a success it's getting harder or it's getting easier blue team you are going to have a whole three minutes to argue that developer success is getting harder starting now okay does this work okay so developer

success is getting way harder because now there's far too many indie Studios out there so everyone's competing against one another which means there's loads of games in the market which means the market is totally saturated which means that actually it's really really hard to make money on top of our consumers like everybody sat here our demands are like way up in the sky now so nobody wants to buy a bad game so if you have a low budget project it's going to equate to a bad game and you're not going to be successful so develop a success is getting hard yeah just like visibility it's it's to get visibility now because of the quantity exactly what you said it's the biggest challenge developers have it's getting hard so Apple have actually stopped selling phones and so as every other Android developer and babies are being born of them grown to their hand so primary school you're taught coding secondary school you're called unity unreal and own University or developing free fall

games to start your own start to do so you come out University with four to five games on the market before you even hit events like this and I think it's crazy we have a hundred thousand new games every day going stupid like that the numbers are crazy and there's no way we compete though you start you'll get it's not you're losing so there's way too many games there's way too many kids playing games under the age of five they're way too smart they're outsmarting us and the next generation generation after that won't even need programming because I'll just think it and it will happen you've got a minute 20 seconds there you please train your children to play more games and buy more of our games please cuz then develop a successful wouldn't be so hard no-one's got kids you can surrender if you want you literally have a minute I think it's harder to make money in games now as well because there's too many games out there and a lot of people are skin not to get political I mean bother doing that but it's harder for us to spend money it's harder for us to make

money from advertising so there's a lot of competition so as a developer it's hard to make money it's expensive people playing it they really want to give you money and if is free and have ads you suck so they want to play your game you still so you're blaming austerity for people not buying game what you can't you're supposed to be in the market heckle I got both sides I think he's blaming Atari 30 seconds he's blaming the Tory government so Tory government are making developers success really really hard and he's hoary 15 seconds anything else seven six they're all done they're all thank you very much Ritter blue team so he go that was now obviously you've

seen the first round if you don't go up from here because that was perfect so we're now going to see what the red team has to say about why game development is getting easier sunny now so we live in an era where the World Health Organization has officially classified gaming as an addiction so if the entire population is addicted to gaming then it's really time easy to make money out of games and developing games should be really easy because everybody's addicted which is Telos come on it's easy so really too many games developers out there what are you in favor of a monopoly would you like there to be one game developer approved by the government seriously how about an oligopoly really no competition is good it raises everybody's game and when you have enough people in the market competing people like unity make frameworks that make it easier for artists to create fun games without all

the people in the industry you would never get flappy bird would you without the people immunity you wouldn't get flippy knife and yes there are a lot of competitors but because of these frameworks and the competition that raises everybody's game people who wouldn't have had a chance earlier can make successful indie titles today I can't believe you would actually support a monopoly in this industry and also just for the record how many of you in the room have a smartphone in your pocket right now right okay so everybody's connected everybody's got a device upon which to play a game the idea of a gamer being somebody who's in their basement a geek who doesn't interact with other human beings is a thing of the past everybody's a gamer the entire population hush-hush just because we are free coding a generation into being digitally native and savvy when it comes to technology is not a bad thing it means that they understand how to interact with our game so we don't have

to keep on reinventing new user interfaces or user you know how to use stuff you know you give kids lesson two years old or just trying to swipe a piece of paper then hey hey our jobs already done one minute I'll say we're no longer restricted to consoles so there are many platforms which you can dish beat your games on and with the wave of cheap Android tablets on the market plenty of opportunities to publish shovelware and something has to stick eventually while we've still got a couple of seconds left I would also say this which is Game Developers the whole point here is is that we're talking about game developers it's a bit being easier let's just remember we're making games games are fun we're giving people joy in their lives you don't want Joe in their life oh come on it's easy to give somebody joy in their life a closing point on a more serious note take a look at the increasing revenue generated by mobile games in the industry I believe in 2017

we ended up at what thirty four billion dollars I don't hear you reach someone's at forty six for 40 Thank You Oscar forty six billion dollars neutral arbiter guys even if we only end up with a relatively small slice of that they talk too much so now we're at that crunch point you've heard both teams make their opening cases that game development success is getting harder or easier I'm going to ask you guys to vote and the fate of these votes for door for success is getting harder please put your hand up now votes for developers getting easier hands up now please blue team okay you saying that looked like

5050 and I said well I hope you're not doing your games forecasting it's a publisher is allowed to exaggerate anyway come on no one's accountable for what they say on this panel including me right in question to AR will either fail in 2018 Oh explode in 2018 please let's we gotta start with red team this time red team you have to explain why they are is going to this is a gift for you Podcast with 17 million people this is gonna be the Tanya I think other people will have conversations you have three minutes on it now

so unlike VR which is really complex for people to get their heads around and for actually the majority the mainstream population who don't even realize they have to buy a laptop or a PC you know just to make a HMT work Hale doesn't require any of that stuff you can literally just do it with the mobile phone so people who already have the devices it's really damn easy for somebody to hold up a phone and be able to seed data lay it over the top of that plus we've had Pokemon go so we've had the watershed moment that we needed so VR had oculus rift AR has had Pokemon go and now even if you don't really understand what AR is if you say pokemon go people go ah and they get it so it's really really easy that's the location game it doesn't matter that it's a location game for the mainstream public in for the corporates you won't have to put money into this industry who have no clue what the hell it is anyway they just always Pokemon go even though it's not but that's not the point they at least have a vague understanding of what AR could or should be and therefore they're more open to more

people are willing to spend money want more people are willing to develop things so as a result AR is going more mainstream more people are willing to at least talk about it in a way that they weren't before it's getting their second wind and if you actually listen to the trend news at the moment everybody's saying that this is the year for a of us as we are so he's talking about how all we have you guys had its moment and now all moving on to AR because you know they've not seen the revenues in the vo or they've not seen the huge explosive success they were expecting in VR so now that we're talking about AR because you know abandon ship as quickly as possible people whatever looking at AO is being the successful thing so actually you know what explode in 2018 because just frankly more people are willing to talk about it they're more open about it and I know that Amazon's got something to say about this too please well I don't follow that well I think the system requirements will definitely make AR explode but honestly it's no I think every once in a while something truly exciting comes along in the games

industry and this is one of those things one minute you can really immerse yourselves in the in the environment with your games it's not not just about being locked away in a headset somewhere also the other thing that we should remember as well is that whilst most people look at VR in assume gaming with AR they don't assume gaming they automatically see the other productive benefit value in other verticals like fashion Ameet ale or travel or real estate or whatever the thing is they immediately realize that there are other applications for a are unlikely are 30 seconds they are broader market beyond games lower cost of entry for both consumers and developers easier to develop more compelling experiences and AR versus VR I don't think it's an argument you can you can you guys can call Pokemon go whatever you want to but the bottom line is that kind of overlay on reality augmented reality drove real customers into real brick-and-mortar stores and that connection between

reality and I'm son role of so cruel I know I know it's so mean now obviously we've heard the red team it's time for the blue team starting now so AR will fell in 2018 for video games it they've argued their case very very well that it'll work very very well in everything else which I agree but video games is where then it ends up failing and this topic is about video games AR it's good it's fantastic I worked on PlayStation Vita when he was launcher so it was the killer device for AR it was saying did because result they are will not we've done that we've been before and how can it read it self in video games I can't see AR ever succeeding in video games it will be a gimmicky device but we are definitely for sure I so I work for an AR developer which

means if I think hey I will fail then it must be too right so a ARS going to fail in 2018 because have you seen what's happened to the iPhone X or thinking about canceling manufacturing over nope nobody's got and a are compatible device there's probably not a lot of people in this room who've gotten our compatible device today so AR will fail in 2018 because it's going to take off in 2019 because everyone's gonna go buy their phones this year and then it'll take off in the long term in a longer lifespan okay so ai ai ai ah I think as a as you want to a waste of time we've got VR we've got a are no Murray knows which is which and now we've got this random thing in the middle they're gone oh let's call it m are really clutching straws and trying to and grab the mark here we've got lots of games like Pokemon go very successful location-based game and I thought you know what let's add this gimmick and they put it a are they chucked it in it never really worked so they looking to take it back out anyway so it doesn't rush go absolutely rubbish again it's a

complete gimmick I mean it'll never succeed thank you a neutral negotiator it's a waste of time no one knows it's called no one's investing in it and it's never gonna boom we can't put one minute any of our games it will only work on mobile and games these days are draining your battery as it is you can't afford to then switch your camera on and play at the same time and then you down to 20% and then your phone dies you don't we going so you get lost I have to pay fifty quid to get a cab there on your hardware's it's so fragmented I mean yes one you know apples release that they are we work on that run Android is just thing works on a very tiny proportion of devices or so on top of that more confusion on the mr bit which is actually why I put on and thereafter you've got more the confusions of it whether they are fit in not yet at all whatsoever in 20 night 18 future yes maybe so also did you notice how tiny you said Oh a arse a big thing in the news the news lies everyone knows the

news lies there for and you can afford the battery life when Apple are stubbing in the back and cutting your battery life in half intentionally and now getting sued for it you can't play over an iPhone could you know apples around oh wait that was enthusiastic okay so back to the plot we are going to ask you in the audience will AR fail in 2018 or explode in 2018 based on the arguments from our illustrious panel votes for its failing in 2018 pretty handsome now however those who think that it will explode in 2018 put your hand up now come on make

your mind up man okay that's unanimous so we know what all won't we that's not bad so bad it's gonna turn about the strategy of read supporting us so that you guys are wearing red knew what teams they run by the way oh yeah this is deliberate to confuse you anyway question three does everyone know about who classification two basically who have decided that there is such a thing this games addiction after many years of saying the games addiction was behavioral and therefore not something I would classify directly they have now said that it will be classified directly who has who's on first what's on second yeah who's decided that's right know

what's on second anyone who doesn't get that joke is too young seriously funniest sketch in the history and I'm English and I still think it's a finished sketch in history it's about baseball I don't know why I'll get a strategy there it's your fault as always so the argument is blatant American that's my that's my American life yeah that's my whole premise in life is to blame the Americans Trump who classification is this an opportunity for us hell yeah wait for it Blue team is gonna go first and you are going to start wait for it wait for it start now so hell yeah it's an opportunity right so let's think about

addicts okay so people are addicted cigarettes people are addicted to alcohol and the alcohol and cigarette industry make loads and loads of money that means it's an opportunity for games to get in on addicts as well because we can basically sell sell sell to the addicts so yeah I think I think it's a good opportunity for absolute positive opportunity for us all serious no to so that it basically saying games matter before it was just video games who cares about those so such an important organization classifying as this is an area we need to now worry about means we actually matter and I absolutely believe yes there is some addictions I know sure about the date etc so but some organizations saying this is an issue we should take this very very seriously in the industry and let's do something about it or so rather than just saying that just just another sort of problem which we will talk ourselves out of so a very very good friend of mine who have

known for long long times the kind of friend that you would happily sleep hiddens how live when you have a sleepover his name is Felix you might know him by the name of PewDiePie I don't know some songs do YouTube basically he makes a ton of money playing games and he said to me one day how can I make more money and I was like well they've just come out with this game addiction illness why don't you sign on as a game addict kind benefits for it so you can double your money because he needs more money who needs a job anymore you can have a game addiction you can get paid by the government to play games you can get played by games companies to test games oh my God look at that full circle there's an opportunity everyone just quit your job now well if we go back to the responsible side of it as well it's an opportunity as well because we can help Alex so we can put things in our games like loading screens which say hey you take a break from this game so actually it shows that you're really responsible medium and we can help

people get better absolutely I mean anything in life you can make it addictive I mean some addictions are great probably people who go running or but mess up their needs or so everything in life or video games one its interactive we can actually make a difference by telling people by the way I think from your patterns you are actually getting addicted to this or so and pretty signs up etc which I think this is a great great opportunity for us to actually make sure we take this very very seriously the second thing about this and moving on from identification after you can get R&D tax credits for helping the government find people who have addictions and then supply them to the NHS so win-win really does not represent me or I take this off Mike and it just means a free health service by Casey dinner or it's not quite free to pay for it thank you very much that was

a spirited statement and of course now we're going to go to little skeptical side of the of the fence and we're gonna have the red team telling us that we need more data starting now gambling alcohol tobacco marijuana cocaine and fun the evils plaguing Western society and when these things happen the government steps in to protect us from gambling alcohol tobacco and fun my God who wants fun for God's sakes yeah if the Puritans would be proud of you guys my God why don't you just go make everyone dress head-to-toe and white for goodness sakes I mean really if we're gonna say that we need to regulate fun for the good of the people what's happening to liberty and freedom in the Western world guys come on we can't do this to people we're going to we're going to ask for another series of

revolutions do you want that blood on your hands or do you want to do a little bit more research I mean is there a more apt phrase so jokes are bad my question is my question is who I mean bacon bacon as Bacon's as bad as cigarettes waters as bad as petrol Mario makes you jump down pipes I mean what next I think this is fake news it's sad there's bad people on both sides we need more data if we wait long enough all that's gonna happen here is they're gonna come back around in like a couple years time and say by the way we were wrong just like they keep on saying eggs are bad for you oh no it's a good for you oh no eggs a bad for you oh you can't eat this you can't eat that it's good this gives you cancer that doesn't give you cancer whatever the thing is at some point in time they're just gonna change their mind about the

whole gaming thing anyway so I say just hold hold fire just give it a little bit of time and it will all just disappear anyway you see we didn't have a whiplash problem like you guys because you guys were bouncing from your seriousness to your fund it was perfect quote to bring in this boy Marcus brick start said if video games affected us we were rolling around in the dark listened to repetitive music and popping pills oh wait do you have any further rebukes or are you done well just thinking about the reputation that video games has had in the past I mean you know GTA was causing kids to run by and you know video games make you violent but over 20 years worth of studies into video games prove that video games were not a bad influence on the general public so I do think that articles like this about you know let's classify video

game addiction as you know know alongside other things like gambling I really do think we need more data and more time to actually consider what this actually means and if it's genuine well if we wait a little bit longer I mean in less than four years have been disbanded so we are now back at the voting period it's up to you guys to decide blue or red we're gonna start with blue as always who classification oh we got a question from the audience the question is who classification is it an opportunity votes up now oh okay we need more data you can't vote twice I saw that that's a big red team win okay

moving on swiftly we are going to the joys of cryptocurrency will cryptocurrency save the world oh is cryptocurrencies chocolate teapot that's my Chitti and our once um so we're gonna start with Reds team going first tell us why cryptocurrencies a chocolate teapot please start it wait wait wait wait wait he says he's trying to get the timer game starting now I believe it was in the 1500s that the tulip bulbs in Holland became a de facto currency and that worked great as long as everybody trusted that everybody would accept a tulip bulb finally someone stood up and said the emperor has no clothes it's a freakin tulip bulb and thus a fiat currency collapses now how different or

cryptocurrencies than to the bulbs well instead of being able to dig a turnip bulb out of the ground we have computers digitally creating things and we promise that computers will never lose or get the data wrong yeah computers will never make a mistake with the blockchain nobody's that we're gonna hack it and nothing bad could happen right because computers are involved so somehow we should all just trust all of these different providers of cryptocurrency that are coming up these days seriously are we actually going to believe that these little blockchain bits of imagination are even going to be worth more than the tulip bulbs they were left with them Holland and let's also be real for just one second here which is that cryptocurrency in general is a pyramid scheme which means the sin you get in the more money you make so for the poor fools who are getting in after the initial early adopters they're basically screwed because they're never gonna make as much money as a person you gotta invest anyway but they're too ignorant to understand actually how cryptocurrency works because most people

don't really understand how it works anyway so yeah you're probably better off just getting a chocolate teapot because at least you things consumer and enjoy it I'm not a pro when it comes to cryptocurrency but it is a currency and if you've seen the news you know unlimited growth of Bitcoin it's amazing is gonna make us all rich and then you know the next month it crashes just like the dollar just like the pound I mean it's the same old thing Walmart you can't have unlimited growth thank you anything else you went out to that you have a whole minute you're good oh good so if you're happy I'll actually is it no I'm perfectly fine if the red team wants to go ahead and support a tulip bulb economy again go right go right go to redhead Blue team 30 seconds on over we're

switching over it's now time by the way the red tie is a hitman ties that's one wearing it and you were confused let me go into cryptocurrency on not the Western world so you're looking at sir oh well okay Western well but we took my Latin America Africa so your currency is made by your government if you don't trust your government then your money is as good as what cryptocurrency a lot of what we're thinking you will be it's just a bit of numbers or so so in emerging markets or so they will adapt cryptocurrency whether we like it or no because it's far better than what their government or whoever else is providing the financial sort of aspects of it and one thing about we sort of covered about security etc of some bitcoins exactly

already talking one of the biggest flow of cryptocurrency is actually when it gets converted to real money before then blockchains and I could talk forever technology about blockchains it is very secure it is absolute sort of one instance can always exist and nothing else this is a macro background explanation anyway I will give more people the chance to with a cryptocurrency I like to think of Lord of the Rings right one ring to rule them all one currency to rule them all so why not have a currency that you can use just ignore what's going on over there why not use a currency that you can use all across the world doesn't matter which country you're from it's not managed by your governments because nobody likes that government right so I think we should take a lesson from Lord of the Rings and build bridges not walls okay so crypto currency crypto currency

as a games industry we're already adopting it we haven't the the cry coin so the very very popular successful crisis CryEngine quite Tech cryo-em they're making their own currency because it's working already so these currencies are not regulated by the government there's no tax there's no there's no way of getting it stolen out of your back pocket watch you're walking down the street we you know as a as a race are already moving away from from notes and coins and we're starting to have you know online-only accounts with our banks but you have to have that law attitude I'm not gonna name a bank but Bank a bank B Bank see you know some of them suck whereas you can just have your own quit moment see that you manage on your own wallet and you can bounce around it we're internet way as you'd like and there's nothing to pay for it it's all yours and it's secure and everyone knows that the news lies so everyone's saying don't touch it it's gonna fall off they're all going I'll have some more cryptocurrency please keep in mind your majority of your audience as you developers are kids and

kids the last thing you want to give is money in handa so cryptocurrency is virtual and again you would trust a kid with cryptocurrency also with your game rather than real money parents would so you should as well built-in cryptocurrency within your systems online transfers when you bank international transfers 20 percent or twenty pounds fee five percent fee cryptocurrency no fee instant yeah PayPal two percent fee or just name someone o P two percent fee anyway it's free it's making money and you can bounce serve up thank you very much so frosting cream we've finished votes now join relatively recently this is not entirely serious nobody to be held accountable because it's intended as a joy anyway so back to

the plot we have Chad to sterling arguments one says the cryptocurrency will save the world the other says that jit cryptocurrency will be a chocolaty but I'm going to ask you as the audience to vote if you think that cryptocurrency will say the world put your hand up now please okay come in the room who think that cryptocurrencies are people put your hands up memories I'm gonna try that one more time if you didn't put your hand up before I'm going to slap you with a kipper not really nothing that said here is real to remember said that okay so could you please but one more time put your hand up if you think cryptocurrencies will say the wrong place the Bray's yeah I think we have a winner

trust in divides over now we don't want serious argument about to each I think now if I if I remember correctly someone who knows what the score is please tell me because I forgot I think it's 5-1 to us oh yes right no chance okay it's the last one cause I know we were cutting close to time and I wasn't sure and because we need a tiebreaker so what better than to talk about loot crate's I mean there's anyone bored of loot crate's I mean it's not like it's been discussed in the news regularly and in debilitating way that's basically shamed our entire industry or anything like that Star Wars anyone thank you I just want to stop however however the other side of that is of course it is actually something there's an intrinsically valuable thing about the game design it's an important part of what we do to be able to graduate the access to goods in a way that makes scarcity exciting so the question is are

loot crate's great value or are they a bad design choice and we're gonna start off with the blue team any second now wait wait for it start now sorry so let's let's look at the elephant in the room in the news be EA or in the news lately for something that they did that was apparently really really bad but let's be honest they had a huge IP that was owned by a company that now owns all of the major companies that IP was not cheap it's cost him tens of millions to have that IP it's then costing more hundred I'm saying hundreds of millions yen let's go now hundreds of millions of then go and develop that game and you can walk into a shop and pick it up for forty quid how cheap is that so to help these guys get their money back from development and maybe if they're lucky make a bit of revenue they had

loot crate's for those of you that are happy to purchase them you don't have to we're not forcing them down your throat we're not standing outside your door when you go to work in the morning saying hey loot crate time it's up to you if you want to buy loot crate by loot crate support developers that are struggling thank you so I guess to follow on from that a lot of developers are working with lower budgets now so enables developers to create games with a more sustainable and a longer term life cycle as well also who likes playing the lottery I mean I know people don't like gambling but let's pretend everybody likes playing the lottery right because it's kind of like playing the lottery so it's like a game within a game so it's like more game for less money game exposure no nope no publicity is bad publicity so if your game put loot crate's and you'll be on headline news this will be our title we will get

exposure basically do it honestly you will bad press is good press and don't forget you know a lot of people moan about their governments not doing anything you know we pay all their money and they sit back they don't repair our roads they don't check on what we're doing with our money so we throw some loot crate's around keep them on their toes and they're active and they do more for you so Frank your government for loot crate's as well blue crates look nice as well to be fair like they open they sparkle and stuff oh no shall we move on let's our delightful people on the red team tell us why loot crate's are a bad design choice it was given off

testing didn't work last time so the blue team went blue red the other team your good argued in favor of the who classification on video game addiction now they're saying that a gambling mechanic is okay I mean there's a bit of a contradiction there do you think but but let's be honest it's this is not a Kinder Surprise I mean this is an aggressive monetization tactic when you've usually already pays loads of money for a triple-a game [Laughter] yeah so the reason the w-h-o wants to regulate games is because of things like loot crate's I mean really what are you guys gonna do

next fill it full of cryptocurrency I mean seriously you've got to get a guy on these things that are bringing lightning rods to our industry do we want to remain a free and open industry we need to fly under the radar of government less we get regulated to death like the other industry is similarly regulated loot crate's are that lightning rod guys we need to get this under control we can't just go crazy and pretty as they may be that attracts lots of unwanted attention so tone it down a bit I'm not saying cut them out entirely but really you're defending loot crate's because it helps really big company IP owners get their money back let's get loot crate's for the big guys really no right now not anymore love it's our turn it's our turn hold on a minute hold on right so I don't actually gamble

but I will say this why bother with a luke frame why not just put a spinning wheel of fortune in the middle of your game and give people a straight-up transparent opportunity to gamble because that's all they're doing anyway so just give them the option behind a little box it's Spock was for crying out now just tell them up front by the way we're gonna make you addicted to gambling I work for kids at and I think of that desperate we should call it quits no I think we have to actually sort of find out what the audience thinks and again if anyone's entered this room and wonder what the hell is

going on we're having a bit of fun and we're trying to explore things and none of it is to be remembered ever so back to the point loot crate's do we think that loot crate's offer great value or are they a bad design choice if you think the arguments made by the blue team which often if we take the great great value please may head up now oh ok ok ok if you think that loot crate's are a bad design choice but you're headed now nice job thank you where's that in mind I can now announce that the winners of the debate game or 2018 poker game Ellender and why the red train thank you very much the gallant losers being the blue team but I think that has to say none of us really are winners so oh no

no I would like to thank you [Music] [Music]