Steel Media’s Dave Bradley On Hot Topics, Hot Takes, And Surprising Statistics At PGC Seattle

[Music] thank you hello world welcome back to the pg.biz podcast with your hosts me Brian baglow and the ever wonderful Peggy and salts hello Peggy back from your travels I see yes I am I am I was at Mao uh so a week in Las Vegas um not just all fun of course quite a lot of work a lot of networking and a lot of good vibe hearing about our podcast we have people lining up now we have inbound Brian we'll have to be choosy oh that's real cake excellent so we'll have to employ some people I think just to make sure that the quality stays so let me just check Mao you're not saying meow like the cat for them monthly average users it was it was uh monthly active users now I think it's mobile app unlocked

it's not entirely only about games but games make up a great great percentage of it my in fact we're gonna have her over here I'm so excited we're gonna have faith price from Double Down interactive because I did a great Fireside with her all about soft launch and she came out with the things that we need to hear so some tough love there right about the timelines learning to love an MVP that's still an MVP of an MVP so you get it out the door getting it games out the door in two and three months and not two and three years and some interesting stats actually I'll bring this one up because it left an impression and that's something to be said because it was a you know jet lag and everything but I'm still thinking about it so she does her homework faith is amazing you'll see when we have her on the show Brian and um she's telling me that statista so she looked at statista numbers so there it is it's statista that's the source take it or leave it there's always grain of salt everywhere but before idfa roughly 2 800

games a month iOS released yeah post ivfa 610 and see further downward really that's a lot that's that's a shift well it makes sense because if you were launching a game and this will come back to what you're saying and everyone's saying on our series as well you know great games matter so yes games matter and before there was a way to sort of like Slide by and sort of play formulas and algorithms and figure it out with data well if that data isn't there user level data isn't there and you don't have you know you're not up for it then you're just going to drop out and I think that's what we've seen we've just seen that sort of weeding out of games that are serious about being games and games that thought hey let's just launch and see what happens yes crossing crossing your fingers and hoping for the best was never a reliable business model but I think we're seeing more and more Studios recognizing that the the making the

thing is only the start of the of the whole process but it's great to have you back thank you so much for for that and I'm looking forward to finding it more and talking some of the amazing people but of course Mao was not the only show in town when it came to world-class mobile events we have our video on Dave Bradley who has joined us just fresh back from the shores of Seattle where we had held the last PGC event welcome home Dave thank you very much I'm happy to be here thanks thanks for having me on the on the podcast but yeah we I I love Seattle's amazing place but I'm jealous of your trip to Vegas Peggy I've never been to Vegas I'm not even to see yes so uh Arthur remedy though clubbing this time Dave I have stories to tell oh what happens stays in Vegas Seattle's a lovely place too and while we were in Seattle for Pocket Gamer connect Seattle it had record high temperatures as well it was uh incredible whether we were out there um we uh I'm very very grateful to be

inside an air conditioned conference rule I can tell you it was a it was it was but it's very beautiful down there by the shores of the shores of the Pacific Northwest twice Seattle out of all the gaming hubs in in North America why why did PGC end up in Seattle that's a great question Seattle has an incredible Indie scene that's one of the big attractions for it but it's also got some of the biggest companies in the world if you think of Microsoft and Redmond which is just across the the sound from Seattle downtown Nintendo of America is based in Seattle so it's got this um incredible mix of real kind of Grassroots development talent in the Indie scene which is very well organized some great work being done there by uh uh by the Seattle Indies group and the idga out there but then also these uh this this Hub of um uh of big companies I mean it's sometimes referred to along with Vancouver which is really not very far away at all as the as the Silicon North as opposed to the Silicon Valley and there's there's lots of companies there so we were originally uh in San

Francisco every year actually but um we ran a few conferences in San Francisco but San Francisco is already very well served for um uh for events um you know you can just think of GDC we spoke after being in GDC in March so uh in 2019 we thought well can we take this Roadshow somewhere else somewhere where there isn't already a big conference taking place but there is a community of game developers that might benefit from us finding a venue and putting on a show and we uh we looked at Seattle and that's where we came there we realized that I took a trip to Seattle in 2019 and was made to feel incredibly welcomed by the local Indie Community um and also the big the big big companies opened their doors to me I went and visited Nintendo of America and I just came away thinking well there's a lot going on here and there isn't a GDC locally I mean it has some great style I mean taxes there and you know there's plenty going on but there isn't an equivalent of GDC there isn't you know that something there hadn't been I think um a casual connect have been there maybe in the past but hadn't been there for a while so I thought it would be a

great opportunity to bring that Community together and uh yeah they they welcomed us with open arms so we've been back every year since pandemic notwithstanding what about the topics there because you know when you think about something like GDC um that's already easy said very well served whereas we've got an indie community in Seattle maybe they're not already so excited about gen Ai and they're thinking about other topics that are more important to them I mean what was the mix of topics compared to the other ones or even you know PGC London for that matter that's a great question you know um I did a little research into before coming here I looked at the feedback we've received the sort of exit uh poll that we've done from people you have 75 of attendees have never been to a Pocket Gamer connects before so we had a lot of new people coming along and uh many and the most popular track for them was the indie track so I think that speaks to the big the very vibrant Indie Community there so the in terms of the the track topic mix um we did put an extra amount of effort

into getting AI content in there because it seems to be the hottest Topic at the moment we came away from GDC with everyone talking about it so we wanted to make sure that was welcome there but we had two stages we had different tracks throughout the day uh we had tracks focusing on the Indie scene we had the usual some monetization content had a bunch of stuff about web3 and blockchain um like I said the feedback afterwards was that the Indie the indie track was was the most popular but but there were there were you know a dozen tracks throughout the day with a slight emphasis on on new technology but the other interesting thing we did for the first time here in Seattle which we've never done when we were in San Francisco is we ran a series of round tables so we put aside a room we created a space um where these are more than just panels the audience were encouraged to participate right from the start we put people a few experts on every round table with a view to them being an open discussion forum we didn't record those sessions either so one of the things that we do at our events is we record the track room so you can't be everywhere you can only be in one room at a time so you can go and watch the recordings later but we said we're not going to record this room this is a

people should feel free and not intimidated to express opinions and and uh and to speak up those round tables went down very very well lots of positive feedback for them and the most popular one of those was about the layoffs that there's been in the games industry in America so we had a a big conversation about the the state of employment in in America about the states of um job seeking and uh and about the the economic impact on the games industry and that went that went down very well um we ran a a recruitment Fair uh in in the in one of the other rooms there again not something we've done at any of our um Pocket Gamer connects activities before we got the feedback already from uh my last trip to Seattle that finding work was very much on people's minds um the the fact that the games industry has seen its first ever slow down in I want to say 25 years Brian is that about right uh you know but it certainly is yeah uh a little um uh you know it's had a little bit of a blip um the economic

climate generally globally as you mentioned talking about Mao as well there Peggy that the fact that the number of games releases is has slowed a little bit people are finding user acquisition hard there's been layoffs this this you know the elephant in the room right from the start was that a lot of big companies including Microsoft and Amazon right there in the Seattle region have made layoffs so we had some open discussions around that the round table we had um recruitment companies like GG locators were were there and we ran a little recruitment there which I'm very gratified to say was supported by some big local companies the Pokemon company for instance came out they are apparently recruiting so they had a table there uh we had companies like very very spacious we had um uh like I said GG locators were there we had uh just just I think maybe like a dozen companies came along that are actually recruiting big fish are there you know the pixel Federation there they were there with big fish and and that went down very well so the the careers the Career Zone as we called it was was popular too and I'm pleased that we did that because I I think it was an opportunity for people to come along and

see that games industry companies are recruiting despite all the news of layoffs so um so so we were able to run that as well that's that's really very gratifying particularly because you're giving back and to your point there's Talent that's sort of um it's I'll say Unleashed I'm going to be positive about that right you know it's it's it's up for it's available and up for grabs and then being able to make that connection because they are they are hiring it was the same thing I saw in Mao it was like every every panel and then by the way we're hiring um so they are but uh it's just not getting out sort of the the normal channels it's not on every slack channel it's just not really readily available and here we are we have a community at pocketgamer.biz so yes and at pocketgamer overall so it's great that you did that is it going to continue with the others because we've got uh got you know more events coming up this year we have and you know we like to tailor the event to the specific region so we're not running a Career Zone in Dubai our next event is in Dubai

um in June uh what we are doing there is tailoring the content around the specific um interests and needs of the growing uh Middle East games development community so there'll be lots about investment in the Middle East there'll be lots about growing an ecosystem in the Middle East there will there will be lots about trying to unlock the potential of the you know of Studios that are found being founded in the Middle East so we're um we're not running a Career Zone there but I'll definitely look at running it again in other territories I try to go ahead and check out a territory and see what the needs of that Community are and what topics is that you know everyone's talking about and create an event that works locally I mean there are some Mainstays of all our events we'll definitely be talking about the current state of user acquisition and monetization all of our events but just trying to finesse it for the local community is is part of the challenge and and so we'll be looking at what works in Toronto which is our July event after that see I I think that's one of the great strengths of the whole um PG PGC calendar is the fact that you can tailor and adapt the format to to the community that you're around

um and it's one of these these odd things you know despite the fact that is games are such a huge Globe spanning industry you know bigger than any other of the uh the creative Industries screen music Etc it can be really tough to just understand what's going on out there um you know despite the number of people playing games reviewing games writing about Games the actual industry topics you know the the kind of thing that we cover as our bread and butter on PG dot Biz is is not always white that widely known even by people in the industry so getting that opportunity to connect with people make those those direct sort of um introductions can be massively useful and bringing that sort of community together so I I'm thrilled and I'm not just saying that because clearly I want to go to Seattle next time around yeah it's a great City you know it's it's a very vibrant like I said we were there in the middle of a heat wave but even so you know like their uh Unity have offices in the region epic have offices in the region they're not the head offices but they have big offices over

the water in Bellevue um so there's a lot of talent there I was able to visit the offices of a company called shrapnel actually I think the parent company might be called neon machine but the but they're they're bringing building heavily around a brand called shrapnel which is a um a first person shooter loot extraction game with blockchain elements built in and that's a that's a a newly founded company um with some incredible Talent there drawing from the region they've got some ex Microsoft employees there they've got Mike Mercury who was in charge of um the user your blockchain project for Microsoft they've got some folk there who previously worked on HBO Max HBO streaming services are actually were actually built in in the Seattle region as well there's a lot of tech Talent there and so they've got some some Talent from there and that was fascinating just seeing them building a game I think a shrapnel will be available to play later this year so that was an interesting trip to their offices there but there's just a just a real interesting mix of of uh of games industry Talent there and I'd like you said Brian often people don't really know that I mean people think of Seattle they think of Frasier and grunge I think

is probably what they think about this yeah exactly or maybe Twin Peaks and Twilight there's also there's all the other building that goes on in the region as well but but actually an absolute Hub of uh of tech and and games Talent um in in the region just curious you say Indie Talent is it any particular genre or even monetization models is it a mecca for for some script budding subscription games I don't know I was just curious if there's something that characterizes what the opportunity there is as well very diverse lots of lots of different different lots of um creative Talent actually lots of um lots of artists musicians I have um always tried to synchronize my trips to the region to line up with the monthly Gathering that the Seattle Indies group have and they go to a pub called optimism Brewing if anyone's in the region they should call in there on a a on a Tuesday on the third Thursday of every month and I tried to coincide

with that you meet a lot of creative people there A lot of creative people there it's a real mix lots of people who are in these now but previously worked to um at the bigger companies and also people who have recently graduated from one of the regions uh universities digipen is there for instance of further education College specializing in in games in the creative art but there's also the University of Washington and so lots of sort of people get first of all getting into the industry for the first time I would say if I had to kind of characterize it probably there's more PC than there is mobile because that's just a general Trend everywhere at the moment uh but also I think lots of creative Talent a lot of people I meet are uh By Nature you know artists musicians level designers that kind of thing we need a lot of people like that that's brilliant Dave and I want to pull you back to one of the topics that you mentioned earlier which is the whole um web 3 you know blockchain nft it's all and so on and so forth what did you get a sense of out in Seattle because you know we've we've discussed EI we talked about that when you guys came back from GDC and I think that was kind of the Hot Topic but are we seeing any kind of movement on on the whole web 3

gaming side of things and is it acceptance or are people still a little cynical everywhere I'm seeing this year that there's more a kind of cautious acceptance of web3 now I should say that that's not Universal the Seattle Indies group that I've just mentioned that I'm a big fan of do some fantastic work in the region they threw a party on the second night of um popular gamer connects Seattle and and like 150 people came along Unity back there it's very interesting but Seattle Indies do not support nfts or or blockchain work that's that's actually one of the the um the areas where they're very um open about not supporting that and and so you wouldn't expect to encounter people working blockchain at Seattle in this event and you know in Venice they've been very good at supporting our event and promoting it with the caveat that they've not been involved in any of the the blockchain talks I should say however we did have pretty much a whole day dedicated to web3 and blockchain activity and it was very popular uh a number of speakers locally and like I said I'm seeing

uh we mentioned this when we talked about GDC whereas a year ago I'm seeing lots of kind of web 3 projects that will focus on the technology and the kind of crypto side of things this year I'm seeing much more people who are building games from a games background and then exploring what blockchain can bring to that can add to that and the shrapnel game like I said that are based downtown in um in Seattle are a perfect example of that they're working with unreal they're they've got some Veterans of the games industry building this incredible first person shooter game that you don't have to ever know as involved in the blockchain but there's an economy there they've built a web 3 Marketplace there's going to be the the the the the the skins and the Insignia and the weapons that you can build um and the levels that you can design yourself are all going to be uh what was probably and nft was probably the word that would use but they're not using that word they're talking about digital assets and digital energy yeah so there's going to be a lot of that in there and that's the kind of thing that I'm seeing so yeah we

had a um a whole stage dedicated to web3 stuff it was very popular throughout some great speakers on it um really interesting part and people to your point right about people in past years pushing back against uh against it a lot more people asking curious questions I I was in a um a panel um I was in I was hosting the stage so I was kind of sitting back and watching the panel that was talking about bringing blockchain games to Market and there were some really good questions in the audience from Indie developers in the audience asking like what actually does blockchain bring to games I think and but I think very much not in a challenging what are you talking about more in a can someone please tell me you know I've come to find out I've come to learn and that was very good with people being very open about what can be added to to games um with blockchain so yeah it was it was fascinating from that and it's a Hot Topic it's also a very Hot Topic in Dubai by the way getting lots of requests for web free content for

conversations around what it brings I think the the uh you know for instance come to us are going to be there you know the um uh big company big in Mobile previously um the um the creators and Publishers of Summoners War and and um Korean company but with a huge us presence they're going to take part in popular gamer connected by they were at Pocket Gamer connects Seattle they've gone all in on web3 and that's interesting to see um and how they're basically taking a blockchain first approach to to the IP that they've been working with for years in other capacities as well and I you know and I think that's that's very interesting to see and it's interesting to hear the stories around that um and and I think we'll see more of it so we're bringing those guys out to to buy as well to to um uh to speak about it there it's always interesting to hear you know how people are connecting with this how they're engaging with this because it's um when you when you read the media to go back to the games media there does tend to be a polarization um and so you know a lot of people have decided we're just not touching it we're

not covering it but there do seem to be an awful lot more companies out there just getting on with things and as you see coming from a game's background with the game sensibility and asking no honest question okay what can we do with this is it actually useful yeah exactly exactly and also building sort of games first it reminds me of Mystic moose from uh GDC and some other interviews I did they're going to be showing up on pocketgamer.biz uh soon where it was basically we'll just have it there we won't talk about to your point Dave you know there'll be Indies or or companies they'll just be there not gonna make a big deal about it but it's there for an easy transition but it was built game first mechanics added sort of like the Intel inside and it will come when it comes maybe maybe even rename it I've heard a lot of people in the industry talk about how we need to uh rename quite a few terms you know play to earn is not cool so um so so others like that yeah exactly I think I think that's it you know it's it's definitely had a bad image so far

and maybe and rightly so they're they're absolutely they were uh you know some bad projects and some outright scammers involved in crypto from early on but but that but the the solution to that um the solution to there being bad games using uh web3 is to build good games that use web3 so uh so you know we're seeing people doing that now I think Dave you mentioned can you shake in the format I've been having these kind of round tables sort of a far more interactive element which I think you said had a really good response and I think um it's not common to have those sorts of species at industry events where people can talk honestly and and actually engage rather than just you know sit in your butt listening to somebody on stage um is is that something you think could be a regular feature of PG uh PG connects events moving forward I would love to have more of that yeah absolutely I think so it Bridges a gap between the two things that we do very nicely which is we have some great content some great speakers some great

panels and we're also are good at creating networking spaces I think people places where people can kind of hang out and they can talk and they can do business things and the round tables feel like a natural extension of both of bringing together of that kind of very personal um that Personal Touch where people can speak uh openly about things but also bringing experts to the room that can you know that can be uh that can be quizzed yeah I like a good round table for them we did uh an event that wasn't um a pocket game connects it was it was much more kind of Boutique in scale it was a Leader's Summit that we ran um in Riyadh last year and we actually had a round table one of the first of our kind of Round Table discussions in the desert around a campfire if you believe that which was a which was a very atmospheric and a fantastic way to try out the format that was the very first time I think we've done it at one of our events and however the timing managed to work out we uh we we took it onto the onto the sand dunes and um I've got a very interesting conversation going with some with some folks about what was needed to kind of grow an

ecosystem in a in a new territory you know like like the middle least so it felt like a very appropriate place to do it which is around this uh with just pulling up these chairs around a fire in the desert under the stars I can't promise that every single one of our events I think in January in London it'll be a little bit chillier than that but maybe but maybe we should take it to a pub ride maybe that's what we should do in London maybe that's the the London equivalent of uh I I suspect you might be blurring the lines between the round table and the fireside chat Dave you know but um absolutely absolutely up for that whether it's a pub with a nice rolling fire or halfway up a hillside in the freezing colds and sleet um you know should we ever come to Scotland I guess I'd be happy to suggest a hillside but um but yeah you've got the oh sorry just to turn this around you've got the Scottish games week again this year haven't you isn't that on the agenda I I do I do finally um it all got a little bit shaky um a couple of months back because the whole of Scottish politics caught fire failover bunding sank into the swamp but

um I would say that yes it seems to be getting a little bit more momentum a little bit more more um traction uh this time around so it will be coming up and there's probably a chat that we need to have about that at some point today very soon um and I might be stealing the uh the the taking people out into the desert idea yeah well that's I mean find an equivalent of that I mean you know Scotland's such a beautiful country and you've got some I mean amazing cities where you're where your activity took place but you know what a great opportunity to take some people to get them together and have the round table I I idea there yeah absolutely do it okay what is that Brian it's the very end of October so it's October the 30th to November the 3rd um in the three sort of main Central belt cities so Glasgow Edinburgh and Dundee at the moment um with additional you know online satellite and Fringe events TBC you're taking place over Halloween so there's uh there's obviously some kind of October the 31st activity to take place I think I'm sure you're already thinking

of thinking of that that could be fun I haven't decided to make fancy dress mandatory yet but um I think you know and and of course in in Scotland we were carving vegetables to put candles in long long before we ever got the pumpkin um so traditionally it was a tournament and if you have ever been seven years old and trying to carve a turnip with a dessert spoon you know that we had to work hard for Halloween um unless naked Woods in a way Dave you know it gives also pg.biz another sort of remit another sort of area which is um bringing these together I mean you can imagine companies looking for talent or recruiters or even people wanting to polish their personal brand a little bit it's almost like going out dating again you know when you have to look for a job you have to get ready for it so it's almost a bit more of a I wouldn't say a side gig but it certainly fits in really well you know one is having the

community and the other is cultivating the community you've just I think you're absolutely right and I want to speak to that but you've just given me an idea if someone doesn't have a recruitment app where you get to swipe right but right or left on uh or companies or opportunity then someone should build that straight away there's a free idea for somebody there there's your job Seeker you've got jobs if they should be job Seeker without with just the r on the end not the ER there you go that's the there's someone someone can go ahead and build that on that it is tough out there to find to find work and but but going to conferences and events and festivals uh is absolutely a great way to do it you know it's uh networking counts for a lot I know um you know in a lot of Industries people say that's not what you know what you know it's who you know and that and I don't think that's true I think you do have to know your your subject matter you do have to know how to you know you have to know your business you won't get very far if you don't however it's all about the meeting people does come in with that's how you found about find out about what jobs are available what companies are starting up where you get to know what's going on in the industry what the trends are and

certainly I think every job that I've heard of since I first joined the industry I I heard about it first from someone else before I saw the job Adam and and that's the way to find out about things and and if events do have um job fairs at them the chance to go and meet people in person and get them to look at your CV in fact one of the things I like at conferences and they do this a lot in American events as well it's as well as you know a recruitment fair in itself even if there aren't vacancies on the table things like portfolio reviews there are many mentors out there in the industry that are very welcome to share their experience to look at you know your art portfolio or your programming portfolio and give you instant feedback on your resume and so on and getting an opportunity to do that is is is important and and uh and so yeah things like that are very very valuable at events fantastic okay um so Dave you have mentioned a a Dubai coming up um you have mentioned uh where is it injunct a July sorry Toronto in July in

June and Toronto in July that's it yeah fantastic yeah we've got that we you know we're doing Lots around here we're going to be very busy we've got um I'm looking forward to Gamescom in August which is not one of our events but we always go that's in Cologne and we will be running some activity alongside that um I don't think it's anything I don't think we've announced it but I don't think it's any secret that we'll be running on another one of our top 50 mobile game makers events there if we can and we're looking at that at the moment and and then uh we'll be running an event in Helsinki in September uh so we'll be looking forward to that that'll be the 12th and 13th of September um and then yeah and then obviously Scottish games week and then into the the last couple of months of the year hopefully we'll be back in Jordan is the plan so um watch the space and of course games come in my backyard I'm right of course yeah yeah we'll be done and I was going to pull a couple people down in there for some interviews and uh podcast directly from the studio last year I unfortunately missed helsinger which was the band for Gamescom so I

thought maybe maybe see if the band will come over and do a couple things for us as well you never know great people great people you know you know what this is looking like Peggy it looks like we might actually get to do one of these live and face to face at some point who knows oh I love the idea love the idea yes we'll get as close to that as we can definitely building it for that reason so it'll happen and I've already had people say hey I'm over I'm coming over I'm coming down so great that's really good by the way I should say um you know I love going to it to a to a good conference I'm actually um going to attend the generative AI conference in London so there's a there's an AI Summit taking place in London in June as well and that's not again that's not one of ours but I'm gonna gonna attend and I'm uh hosting a uh a fireside chat on stage with guy Gaffney of Charisma I'm looking forward to having a chat with him about the latest day yeah or maybe think of it yeah yeah he's a great speaker on the subject so what he's in your games industry

veteran as well but but on the on what AI can do you know you know in an ethical way but just to enhance the gaming experience what they're doing at Charisma I'm hoping to uh to take that to the to the stage yeah in um on the 15th of June in uh in London so um yeah that's another conference I'll be out so it just remains to see Dave thank you so much it's always a pleasure to hear from you so we look forward to having you back thank you very much for having me it's a pleasure to chat with you both not at all not at all regular thing and and you know so I have to buy after Toronto we'll get you back we'll we'll talk a little more we'll find out more about the finger on the pulse and the the situation on the ground in in those cities Great and um we will look forward to seeing you here at some point in the next several weeks perfect thank you very much how nice to see you thank you and I look forward to coming back this show is all about how to do your job better how to make an amazing game how to Market it and you have a say so if you have a story or know someone we need to shine a light on then we would

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Peggy Ann saltz and that's a wrap until next week