Panel: Playing the A Game - How Can We Engage & Support Esports in the Region

[Music] thank you hello everyone my name is Dave Bradley I'm the CEO of Steel media and I'm going to be with you now for the next hour or so um Frank gets to stay on the stage because we have a panel now on the topic of how we can engage and support Esports in the region now um unfortunately one of our panelists has been unable to make it Rainer Abbas um from wixel Studios uh injured herself yesterday and has been unable to to travel so she can't be with us so um Frank and I are gonna are gonna hold the fort with I believe someone dialing in so I think we have Philip ride joining us on Zoom Philip you can hear us okay there I I hope perfect hi thank you for being with us

so I'm I'm going to invite our panelists to introduce themselves but uh but just to say we've got we've got two two panelists now and we're gonna dine dive in and put some uh put some numbers and some some topics on the conversation around Esports and how we can engage it in the region um uh Philip I'll start with you you're from Cheesecake digital can you introduce yourself to our audience in a few words tell us your background and about your company yeah absolutely so I've been involved in Esports for 21.5 years uh started at the age of 16 and I've been in the region for the past seven years um largely I've been focusing on strategy work for Brands and governments um so some of the the projects that I've been involved in in the region include supporting Blast for their Global finals in Bahrain in 2019 to the pif for the Evolve project which is the the network of gaming cafes they're building in the Kingdom I've just done the Minecraft

Esports schools clash as part of Dubai Esports festival and about to go and help blast with their Abu Dhabi World Finals coming up in a couple of weeks so a lot of the work that I've been doing has been said strategy and thinking about how we can grow the Esports community in the region but I'm also now starting to do business coaching and I'm creating Esports courses more around the business side of Esports not the playing side just to be able to help that next Generation as they're coming through that's perfect thanks great intro um Philip just before I ask um Frank uh Philip can you just remind us where are you zooming in from today which region are you in right now I am in Dubai so the region but yes I because I've just been operating the live finals in Dubai um and I was speaking at a teacher's conference yesterday I haven't been able to get to Jordan unfortunately no that's great thank you for taking the time Frank we were just on stage uh talking about e-polls but for those who maybe missed that or just to recap and set the scene

can you remind us yeah a little bit about your own background and uh and your company now um days um um I wanna a consulting company based out of Singapore specialized in Esports and gaming and where we have two pillars one pillar is a consultancy and the other pillars our own projects one pillar and this is one of our biggest client is Imports so we have these companies to to go and scale up and uh go in other regions add more games to it and of course um to get more fundings on the other side we have our own projects and for Esports it's an Esports team and then we are very strong in Esports education

one part is for the serious part of Esports that's Esports management and then the second part it's a training for gaming skills for different games perfect that's great thank you so lots of experience in the room so if you have any questions that weren't answered in previous panels please do save them up I'll have an opportunity to to come back to those so um I want to dive in here and talk about how we grow the Esports Market in the Middle East how we achieve that um Philip I'm going to come to you first because it sounds like you're you've just been right there in Dubai working on it right now um what needs to happen for um Esports to to grow in the in the Middle East how do we achieve it is it about investment or education uh what do we need uh both realistically I think education is is an interesting starting point because everybody in the region plays but those people who control the budgets don't

necessarily appreciate what's involved in Esports where the opportunities are and what it delivers to both the players and the audience so that education piece of helping people understand is absolutely important if we can get that level of education then we'll be able to unlock some of the addition you know funding and that will help in the leagues or the events or the ability to develop players all of those things work together but yes there's a requirement for a level of funding we're starting to see that in Saudi um you know it may have been already spoken about today but the strategy that was released by The Crown Prince and and how they're now focusing and putting budget against okay so that's a key thing Dubai has said okay we're going to have an Esports festival and we're going to look to do that every year and grow it so that they have something as a focal point in the Emirates um so we're starting to see it but there needs to be more of that the more people we can educate and help them understand

what Esports is and how it works the easier some of those conversations become around getting investment and growing the space and the other thing I just want to touch on is consistency and scale okay the region historically has been horrible at being consistent okay and I say that because I've been here for 7 years it's let's do a big event of nothing for six months we're starting to see that change but there needs to be more of it because if there's no consistency there's nothing to watch and there's nothing to compete in which means that as a community you can't grow okay the other thing is about scale this region historically has always been about can we do the biggest and the best tournaments but in reality that's not always the right approach you know people sitting in this room may say you know what I that sounds like too much of a challenge if I can create something and create a community of 100 200 300 people who are willing to participate in

my events or follow my team and I can generate enough money to pay for myself and a couple of Staff members is that big enough potentially yes so I think there's also that consideration of what scale do we want to work at and how do we piece the different piece uh elements of the industry together that's great and a really good point about consistency there's almost no point in not growing a community and then trying to suddenly have a huge uh tournament once a year or something um in fact so Frank I'm going to come to you with the same question really um does what uh Phillips says reading true with you what's your take on how we grow the uh the the Esports Market here um in general I agree what Philip said I want to add two points one is experience the thing that's that's important that we have a knowledge transfer that we have experienced people and that's not only about Esports it's also about in this my second Point structure

um how you create a company how you run this company how you scale a company um uh what what Philip said if you want to have a continuity um how you do that so this is I think uh maybe not only in the region here important maybe in the general General in Esports but that's one point or two points what I see um it's uh experience knowledge transfer and on the other side structure interesting yeah the the knowledge and structure as Philip mentioned there's the investment for instance in um the Saudi government has put money into into Esports with a Target I think of being a global leader in Esports by 2030 is that right Philip and I guess that some of that needs to be about bringing yes it's part of the 20th yeah 30 Vision yeah um which is which is great but but Reno it says as uh Frank says requires people to come in with know-how and and experience

um uh let's talk a little bit about some of the challenges there on that Philip um Frank I'm going to stay with you one of the challenges of hosting marketing promoting new Esports events to the world particularly in the region but I guess the very similar problems where you know challenges wherever you decide to host an event um what's your what's your your kind of understanding of the challenges that are involved in in hosting and promoting Esports particularly here so hello what a huge topic it's uh no no it's it's a very good question and uh I laughed a little bit because it's not everything about money yeah as I said it's about experience knowledge um you can host here let's I don't know maybe a tournament for my mobile Legends and Nova will attend and even you put a lot of money into it right because you have not the reach you don't have the the community and so I think it's it's very important

to understand the market yeah um and what what I said uh earlier today yes you have to know the community the size of the community how active a community is for a certain game and work with this community and build on this um every time bring up the example from Peru um it's it's a huge market for daughter too and if I go there with a different game I may have no success but this is for me very important to see this and um the second point is for for Esports it's every time to be authentic hmm that's and work with the communities be authentic I think then then it's a it's a good chance that you can go it but you know from every business success is not coming overnight so you have to work for that yeah interesting um no no exactly Philip I'm going to

come to you same question because you've you've been hosting some tournaments around the region you're in Dubai right now are there particular challenges of hosting and marketing Esports events in Dubai Jordan and the Middle East or the same challenges as everywhere I think I'll speak to Frank's points slightly here it's the region as a whole is different okay more in the way that games are played platform preferences game titles so mobile Legends there you know Frank's mentioned it and Dota 2 okay neither of those are heavily played within the region okay so trying to come in and do events and tournaments for those games yes you're already on the back foot because there isn't that existing Community to tap into so if you do want to launch something here in the region your starting point should naturally be okay which are the popular games and how can I leverage those in the existing communities that are here what we are seeing and it's interesting

is that some countries are taking a almost the opposite approach and they're doing that though because of the global scene okay so as an event operator you will need to make a decision of what is your objective okay and I say that because you you need to think about a multi-year plan if you take a game that is less popular okay so Dota 2 again great example Saudi e-leagues and Gamers eight have both used Dota 2 as a game even though it's not heavily played within the region my I suspect they're doing that because they want to build the pathway to the global Community okay so that is going to be a multi-year journey for them to try and increase the player base for that particular game but if you were somebody who's coming in right now and you needed to set something up and you needed to get traction from your first events you're

better going for one that already has that Community because that's half the battle you know if you can pull in the existing communities that are there and then layer additional experiences and opportunities on top you put yourself in a much better position for Success can I just leap in with a follow-up question um Philip what is the most popular game then if if Dota 2 isn't particularly uh well played here it's more played outside the region what games are you finding a most in demand here for as Esports great question that actually it differs slightly from the Gulf to sort of North Africa and the Levant region which is I know where you are at the minute you know the golf pubg mobile yes big favor for apps and streaming stats uh fortnite is there but again as you start to move into North Africa there are a couple of titles that come through some of the PC titles you know lost you I think there

also League of Legends in Egypt as an example uh free fire on the mobile side in North Africa challenge sorry you still hear me we dropped out for a second there but we caught up actually I think so that's interesting very interesting and actually before I move on again same question to you Frank obviously on the e-pulse platform what what do you find uh is there a great variation in what games people are playing from territory to territory yes of course um if I'm coming back to Georgia in this case but you can can replace us with Cisco with every game please you have to know the game and the game Community where about um and that means if you if you're talking about the community it's not not only about what they are spending it's also how long they are playing which game they are playing maybe on which level they are playing um and I think important is is to know

what I mostly mentioned and intoxices um it's one one example if you have a Life podcast when I come back to them to answer the question if you have a live broadcasting from sports events yeah um golf for example on the on the old-fashioned TV um four out of 10 people watching this tournament are themselves playing golf right if you have soccer football it's one of out of ten I really love football and playing football maybe I'm too old for that if it's coming to games what do you think how many people are themselves playing games watching games interesting I I I I would inspect most of them but I don't know who was the 10 out of 10 is that right yeah yeah okay this isn't now coming back to it so it's not only about that they're playing the game they're also watching the game interesting so if

you can then do some analytics about and the game and the community where it is then you can follow if it's regional even local follow where are these communities are and work with these games and may then you can go out in other regions and so for for us this is very very important um to look uh in into games and uh to to mention that it's for epos it's not only in Georgia too there's fellow and uh on The Cisco of course the platform and other games that's interesting I'm going to stay with you actually Frank on while we're talking about um uh about Esports as a as a sport and tournaments just on a more General note does does Esports now feel legitimate as a sport because you mentioned there uh like soccer and so on I um Esports was recently removed as uh as um an activity in the Commonwealth Games

it had in fact been in there briefly with you know with much fanfare but it's out again uh and I hear anecdotally that Esports players find it harder to get visas to travel than regular sports players this morning in one of the conversations here we were talking about how maybe here in Jordan having a career in games is not so well expected accepted as it is in patch America where everyone is kind of aware of the size of the games industry do you think that Esports feels like a legitimate way to be a professional yet Esports is a very young industry and if you compare to any other Industries they are not really established structures we are growing and this is the opportunity everyone has yes we are living in Singapore for over 10 years now um and this is a small country and and then Singapore

parents hope that their kids are becoming a lawyer yeah um doctor accountant a doctor so if they come up and they'll say no I want to be a Esports athlete yeah they run an end problem but it's it's changing it's changing because the the government institutions are behind this and secondly it's it's so important that not only Esports organizations also sports clubs Brands Association shows that it's a really industry but yes we have to go out and this is when when we started when I talked about structure we need these structures what other industry or maybe Sports already have and I think it's the same year in the region that you need these these uh enthusiasm activities from the youth to

go into this area to follow this dream maybe not be the I don't know next lawyer maybe to be the the next Esports athlete and this was one of our clubs for example there's a player from India he he owns a lot of money yeah um only playing games and gets and maybe advertisements marketing partners responder partners yeah interesting and and um and Philip is that your experience as well uh does does Esports now feel legitimate as a as a sport as a professional sport what's your experience of running those tournaments in Dubai for instance um this is actually a challenging question for me because it depends on how you look at the world and I say that because yes we've had the Commonwealth experience and there are some

similarities to what we see in traditional Sports and we see a lot of the traditional Sports roles now coming into Esports whether that's you know the team side or the business side and there is an experience there as a player and competing and playing on stage but you could also say It's Entertainment it's like WWE okay so it's like does it need to be legitimized as a sports does it need to be legitimized as entertainment is that easier for people to understand and okay what does that mean for the future I know in some countries for example if it does get classed as a sports that can actually open up Government funding right okay so there's an opportunity there and and the UK is one of those examples I know the British Esports Association have been looking at that because they know they'll be able to get additional funding if Esports is classed as a sports so I think there's a challenge there of saying if it is a sport what are the positives and negatives of that is it better to

position it as entertainment and actually Esports athletes at the top level are entertainers and does that make it easier to get visas and participate and do everything else we want to do I think the other thing that we are starting to see and and it's probably another five or so years is that my generation okay so I'm 38 uh slightly younger than Frank at least I'm sorry I I disagree a little bit about Philip said percentage chainment I think Esports is guiding Sports how to entertain through Sports interesting if you're looking to Formula One For example and I think everyone agrees that formula one is sports if you see to this they start on Friday and it runs until Sunday and the real sport is two hours on Sunday night everything else is entertainment and then let me ask the question if it's in attainment or Sports

I think this is what the gaming industry and the Esports industry can deliver and if you look how many sports stars Steph Curry from from the Warriors the king from they are playing not so good at the moment from the Lakers um James everyone invested in why are sports NBA as an association or even sports clubs went into it it's marketing yes but it's entertainment yeah and one last question is especially NBA when they started to work with gaming Esports they realized that gamer or Esports athletes or Spectators watching a game from a different perspective so what they did was I think it's three seasons ago they changed the

camera angle because they learned for a live streaming of a game that Gamers watching in the different from a different position so and then again I I'll again the question is this entertainment this is sports but for me it's very very clear that Esports gaming shows the way for sports into entertainment and that's that's very that's very good and in fact there are other things that Esports does very well that uh let's say regular Sports could learn from the uh the kind of the conversation that goes on between participants that that kind of thing the the you know the the actual live viewing of it and chat and things like that um uh we've got um we've got about 10 minutes left so I am going to see if anyone wants to ask any questions from the audience but I'm going to come here with a with another question there you mentioned I think both did briefly but but Philip particularly mentioned this the the kind of roles that are involved in Esports that are coming in we spoke a little bit about investment and education but we you know all the roles

that come into support the Esports ecosystem how are professional players ported across the region at the moment and maybe this is true interesting about the whole the whole world but are we finding that there are big differences in things like um their um Sports psychologists media support contracts all this kind of thing is there that the all the industry that surrounds players in the Esports industry are they getting the support that they need and is that different here in the Middle East than it is in say America or Korea where where Esports are already huge Philip what do you think what's the whole kind of support structure like for for Esports players right now um if we take the global scene then yes those pro teams have the additional roles in place you know nutritionists psychologists Fitness coaches all those sorts of things are now starting to be put in place to support the well-being of the players you know Peak Performance is what the

teams are looking for if we talk about here in the region it's starting but there's a long way to go and the biggest reason for that is if you were to list all of the top teams in the region for the different games you would probably say six maybe ten could be classed as proteins okay which means then there isn't necessarily the infrastructure there for those teams because they're focusing on okay the players getting to events representing the region you know that's been there their key Focus so there's additional roles while they're being introduced globally to proteins that have you know had a 20 million dollar investment rounds we're not at that point yet for the region so it will come but we also need to build the rest of the infrastructure and create more pro teams and then we'll start to see more of those roles and opportunities yeah that makes sense that makes sense uh Frank obviously you run a a platform for hosting tournaments so you're part of

the wider ecosystem what's your analysis of all this sort of support structure that goes around professional Esports uh do you agree with Philip is it there already is it coming it's coming yes uh it's uh and then some parts yeah it's there I think a lot of um governments institutions um have to learn about the opportunity not only in Esports and gaming and then itself because for me gaming in Esports um it's nothing but you can separate okay and um so I think it's it it belongs to both a little bit how strong the games industry is uh acknowledged in a country from a government if you're looking especially to Esports um I can for example mention Malaysia they created in 2018 where we helped the

government to establish a pathway for use in Esports this was a project from the government and they put it under the family and youth ministry because why because I served this chance to create jobs and if we are looking to to to Esports is based on games so it's it's not only Esports has to do even maybe this with local gaming companies with uh Global gaming companies and everything around it so I think once a government is much more more behind that um then it's a good chance to to get this and why happened in Malaysia there was a lot of players right and they played and there was a lot of Gamers they watched an uh live streaming they watched

I don't know games content and saw that the the the the government and I think every government is uh observing the country what happens especially in the development of Industries and says okay there is a huge interest there's a change what what Philip says as well he is a younger generation they grew up with games they play they understand it more and more the government's maybe more younger people so they understand and see it um so yeah it's it's it's a way but um it's I think together games and Esports that's I got a follow-up question actually you mentioned this um before just on your previous point that you made about how it's 10 out of 10 people who watch Esports probably played games as well and um to your comment you were just making there about games and about um people engaging with games as a developer and there are many developers in the audience today making games how do you balance the need of regular

if you like regular multiplayer games with it becoming an esport um is it uh when is there a comp some kind of balance that you need to find as a as game makers and game Publishers um the the game can remain fun for amateur players as well as being something that's viewable as a professional sport that's a very good question I think Esports management causes it's not everything about Esports it's also about game development yeah because of Es as an Esports manager you have to understand the game development and if you work together so very simple it's the API to get it into an esportsana platform to to capture data um it's one step I think there is a big connection

um and yes you can create with tournaments much more excitement um but you also can create is retention so people coming back or engagement and then you can spread it out and content and tournaments whatever you want so from my perspective this is why I'm here and why I think it's it's it's a it's a good opportunity and thank you to to to you and then Chris and the team to have the opportunity and open a little bit more the space to see what opportunities are here for game developers and Esports platforms to work together to create more business what we want everyone but also a create more excitement for your community that makes sense thank you and I want to give people a chance to ask a question but Philip did you want to to Wade in on my point yeah so I'm going to be controversial and take uh almost an opposing view and and that is developers and the Publishers don't determine an Esports

the community does Esports was built by passionate players who wanted more a lot of the tools weren't there in the early days and although we're starting to see developers and Publishers put them in place it's still based on whether the players wants to adopt them do they set up their own communities do they set up their own tournaments what's the participation like you know then a developer and a publisher can say okay there's interest here for more than just the traditional play style or playing of the game that they've created once they have that from the community and the players then they're in a better position to try and create an Esports structure around it if they come out of the gate and say this is going to be in Esports we've already seen examples where that's failed horribly from a number of different developers and Publishers yeah very true very true and we're we're coming almost to the end now we've got a couple of questions a couple of minutes left for questions so do we have any questions from the audience for our experts oh one in the middle there system

uh oh hello I've got it thank you very much if we yeah if you wait for the mic then they can hear you on the on the camera and in the booth as well so thank you uh first I'd like to thank you um hi my name is Yusuf and this is my friend uh Khaled uh this question is from both of us as we have seen governments are taking Sports more seriously every day and the the gaming industry in general so do you think that in the future there will be the same tournaments that happens in real Sports such as World Cup or maybe there will be Esports League such as in FIFA or the NBA but that great question thank you so I'll open it up to to our our panelists um uh yeah did you catch that will will we have a a World Cup for uh for Esports as it takes on more as it gets the investment and support from governments and is taken more seriously what's the uh how far can it go

Philip do you want to launch in there well I would say we already have World Cups they're just for each individual game so this is a question of are you trying to bring multiple games together and actually determine who is the best game across multiple titles to claim a World Cup because we have the the pub pubg World Championship going on in Dubai at the minute we've just had the worlds for League of Legends you know that there are world championships for different games going on all the time I think it's about what is defined as a World Cup does it need to be something that's brought together and it's you know one location or multiple games at the same time that's going to be challenging because of the IP owners and and the games themselves is it about trying to bring more properties to the region that's starting to happen and I think it'll be a case of needing to grow the local communities to be able to have the

governments justify saying we want to bring these events because we now have the local following we have the community historically over the past couple of years the region has brought those big events but they've not been well populated because they've been for games that aren't popular in those particular countries so I think there's there's a challenge there of what you choose and how you choose to do it I think the the second part of the question was about the role of a big Global unifying organization like FIFA or or something like this was that the question and and whether such a thing either exists or should exist for Esports as well does that factor into what you're well you have the government or the the entities trying to be governing bodies so you have um iesf and Frank will be able to add into this as well and you've got you know very something you've got some player buddies you've got um wsf and and it's like okay there's

there's a mix of people trying to do things but you still have that same challenge FIFA is just for football okay in gaming and Esports you have 25 different games if not more who have different Publishers and different owners so getting them all on the same table to have the same agenda is going to be a challenge and that's where Esports it's easier to say you know what this is a world championship for this one particular game okay and if you're a fan of this game great you're going to follow that you're going to be aware of what's going on that's going to be your focus thank you um yes Frank what's your take on that um I think for the first part of the question that what I mentioned in the beginning structure um and this is coming not only from a publisher so also from a community what the community wants to to achieve with that so what what Philip mentioned

that it goes from from from the community so every every game needs the Grassroots to to grow I think that's that's very important so that you can establish a structures if we look in this case to do tattoo there's already a leak structure if we like it or not that's a different question but there is we have it and secondly um I have a very strong opinion on on these Global associations um that's everything they have all not the interest for for for players or teams that's that's private companies they want to establish tournaments um if this is the right way the future will show it I think it's much more a collaboration between Community leaders or communities as Publishers how to set up structures if you need a world cup with uh or like like the Olympics 25 different games at

one time I don't know I think that's more up to the The Gaming Community to to find a way for that um but yeah I think um the the good thing isn't I think that's Philip and I agree on it is um that we we need we need the the Grassroots the community to stay authentic to be active with the support of Publishers and Developers perfect well thank you very much that takes us exactly to time and we have three more sessions of the day to go so I'm going to stop there um and suggest if you have any further questions probably you can find these guys around certainly you can find Frank around the venue you can probably contact both guys uh through uh through the meter match or online but uh let me give a round of applause with you all to uh Philip ride and Frank spilka thank you very much [Applause]

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