Panel: How Will Cloud Gaming & New Platforms Change Gaming?

i want to introduce everybody that's on this incredible panel coming up right now uh k greenvault how are you doing today hi kelly how are you i'm fine lovely to see you welcome you're coming to us today from paladin studios and you've got an exciting panel which is how will cloud gaming and new platforms change gaming so with you've got francis ingraham from plug-in digital alexander crook from soft games adam smart from apps flyer in the wonderful parent show from lego adventures so welcome everybody i'm gonna hand over to you right now okay and i'll come back in about i don't know 40 minutes or so and see what's happening have a good time thank you so much kelly gentlemen hey good to see you um welcome to our panel and welcome everybody else that's listening i'm very happy to be back on this channel thank you to

pocketgamer uh for giving us the opportunity to dig into this very interesting topic of cloud gaming as always i like to give my distinguished panelists a minute to introduce themselves um maybe tell everybody about uh what the cool stuff they do and what's going on um allow me to start this myself very briefly hi my name is kai i currently have the honor uh and the pleasure to serve as ceo of a mid-sized gaming studio independent studio uh in the netherlands ghost paladin called paladin studios we're working with awesome clients like apple zepdolab vandanamko nintendo a bunch of others that you might have heard before and um yeah i'm happy to be here i have some really really smart people with me that know way more about cloud gaming than i do um so why don't we dig in and i'm gonna go in the order of where you

appear on my screen and pairing your first uh brilliant um thanks everyone and great great to be here i'm paran i'm an investor with lego ventures um so i sit on the investment side so potentially some of the other panelists are more knowledgeable actually about cloud gaming than i am but we see we see a lot of stuff come our way um we are investors in learning through play uh which to us means fun active social meaningful experiences um so really anything social anything creative um and anything that sounds like the m word that everyone is using uh we'd love to see those projects um yeah that's me thank you so much karen uh adam you're next hi i'm adam smart i've worked in social and mobile gaming for around 11 years now mainly on the product side so i moved to appsfire about a year ago as the director of product for gaming i'm basically helping widen the gaming offering

tool of the gaming partners and also uh looking at areas for product innovation and growth essentially um i'm also running the level up ua podcast for appslower where we discuss a lot of the gaming initiatives going on at the moment yeah definitely audience check that out it's really good thank you so much adam um alex all right welcome here there we go uh so yeah so i'm alexander i'm the ceo and co-founder of stuff games we are an insane gaming company meaning basically we develop casual truly social games which can be played instantly across all devices and we work closely with facebook uh samsung and a few other partners uh yeah to craft the next generation of insane games which can be played by billions of people instantly awesome thank you so much alex and last

but certainly not east uh guillaume uh happy to have you on say hi thank you thank you to invite me well i'm guillaum i'm the vp and head of publishing for program digital and plugin tutorial is a company which has we started as a distributor we provide salesforce for publisher and indie studio on pc console and mobile and we are also running two publishing levels called java videos and pid games and basically cloud wise i'm a big content provider cool awesome and uh we're actually partnered up with you guys as well in this studios and we're very happy with that just want to mention that all right let's dig in um so this is a very big topic and uh typically um you know during the preparation for it and our talks that we had uh quick intro chats

before um you know it really showed that there's a lot to talk about um i wanted to very briefly lead in with with one paragraph and just put down some some basic thoughts that i had out of um you know gut feeling initially when i read it um so there's and and one of the things that i really want to want to start with is that there's there's a ton of uh definitions and interpretations of what what does cloud gaming actually mean right um to me uh as a not not a deep expert in the in the topic it's basically you know cloud gaming or gaming on demand means that games run on a server um and i play them on my device whatever that may be right um nowadays it could be a phone even or a console or pc or a tablet um as a concept this whole idea of cloud gaming has been around for a long time about 20 years i'd say with

you know some serious efforts like g-cluster on live guy kai i'm sure that that rings a bell there's a bunch of people in the audience as well but um i i feel like it hasn't really been that successful as as as intended or as wished back then but um now we have this massive reach of social platforms we have um you know the instant on nature of the cloud that that you can access right now as a player and as a user we have much easier distribution we have less barriers and you know for the instant on gains in cloud games also different acquisition funnels right that potentially bear some lower ua costs because that's the pain of our existence at least in mobile it seems the perfect time it seems the perfect approach um and um it seems to be now actually bound to be very successful heavy hitters like amazon playstation nvidia and others entering the market

it's always a good sign because they're you know typically um think about this for a little bit longer so the first question i want to put out there is um and i know it's a big one but uh maybe you guys can condense um condense it a little bit on you know is this the right time um where do you see it go in in brief terms and um is it an area of our industry that you also would suggest young studios you know startups to look at um as an opportunity that is really right now developing fully um wanna go with this one around the table and i'll start in the opposite direction that we did the intros on guillen what do you think well we are already quite active on the cloud for four years now we like to see ourselves as a pioneer so we do provide enough content to was a the big names did provide act like amazon or

microsoft but we are also very involved with local partners like the telco operators many intel cores on local markets do have some cloud well it's cloud and subscription based uh system um so actually it's already a very nice income source for studios and some publishers it doesn't change the market yet i will not say that the studio will make his money out of club only right now it's not yet to that but still on the long tail we do we do provide our partners with very nice income coming from all the cloud and subscription based services all over the world so [Music] to answer the question yes it's the right time to to join that market for sure and there is some flows yet maybe we can we'll come back on that later but yeah the market is not mature but is it

generating money yes so you should look into it great that sounds like some good news and uh alex i know that you on you know soft games has been in this uh in this area for quite some time now quite successfully as well um so what's your take um you know where do you see it now is it a good time to get on board and where is it going to go um yeah so we're basically um so i said like on the instant game space which can be basically part of this broader as a cloud games topic in general but anyway still it's basically like an if you play on the server you don't download something uh you basically you know click and play directly and i think this is uh the the major benefit of cloud gaming in general you know that it's not like a huge acquisition funnel where you have to convince somebody okay hey you click on an ad you go to the app store page you have to convince the user okay hey this image is awesome probably the description is even better so i won't download this it's basically

okay i see an ad i click on it and i'm directly inside the game and this is i think the them like a huge huge benefit let's say um over let's say like the traditional apps business let's say uh when it comes to the question okay is it the right time to to start doing right now um when it comes to to say the broader topic cloud games obviously yes because it's let's say early days and also instant games it's a bit more mature because it's uh around since now 2016. so end of 2016 um so a lot of things have already happened uh but also there the platform itself facebook got way more mature um also like other players popped up with snapchat um or a set like samsung and the chinese one is uh the wechat thing so there is already like lot of a lot of opportunities that say especially for an indie developer um because now they are not they say like the big big players on board with huge marketing budgets i think this is like a really big benefit especially for an ndi uh and if you basically are able to

launch a game which attracts um the audience then you can basically yeah get a really huge leverage to the platform itself which in this case might be facebook because the viral effect is just just massive just think about 2009 with zinger who basically dumped the whole feed through with all these kind of fancy farmville invitations and now just take this in 2021 or 22 a little bit less intrusive i would say but still um there are billions of people out there who are playing are interested in playing games every day and if you bring the right content to them at the right moment and it's just one click away the opportunity is just huge it's just massive so definitely yes thing to look into great yeah that seems uh that's a very short hop to to getting a new client or a new player awesome thank you um adam what's your take on on it you know for me i think a lot of it depends on the context of

what cloud gaming actually is you know as you started off with i think if you're talking about sort of console on the cloud so you're able to access i don't know playstation games xbox games pc games directly through a different platform then it's an extension of that platform which gives potentially access to a lot more users so yes fantastic it's exactly the right time the for me the more interesting aspect to that is you know as alexander says and and he's doing the instance uh instant game side of it where you have the likes of facebook and snapchat and all of these kind of huge companies promoting it and really pushing it at the moment and i think there's a lot of momentum behind that cool awesome so also a good time to get into that side of things right definitely um parent from uh an investor's point of view um what does that look like it's um yes super interesting space i think it's worthwhile just kind of like

framing the the conversation the opportunity a little bit and to anyone kind of watching this who um you know young studio looking to to build in the space and and really create like a category defining company um i think working out what the usp is and what the value proposition is across you know infrastructure platform and content i think it's super important so what is that when you leverage that full stack which are the bits that actually matter to you and what is that experience that you're creating that doesn't necessarily exist right now and from i guess an investor perspective we're always looking to try and find especially the market as it is um the category leader within any given space um so i think a good example of a company trying to do that is is placo raising an incredible amount of money to try and define the space and it's still early um so they may not be the one but i think the the element of trying to find an arena that you care about trying to

trying to build a usp that is very very high quality games with depth on an instant on various instant platforms i think definitely sounds interesting um and you know gaming is a global industry it's it's growing phenomenally um there's definitely an accessibility piece here um along the lines of cloud enabling potentially lower cost and greater fidelity um and greater access and i think all of that is very very compelling and that is why you see you know social the reason why social platforms are caring about this is because they've realized that there is actually a lack of engaging content on their platform and they see that risk five ten years out even more so than now um so if you can really through cloud leverage um both the infra the platform side of things and the content side of things in order to create a category defining creative social experience that players can play together with their friends and and really strengthen meaningful friendships um that's like a winning pitch for me yeah very interesting um you know

listening to what you guys said it seems there's really like um quite quite a difference between or you know a a difference between streaming games you know like on a playstation or playstation games or high fidelity pc games and the more casual side of things right is that something that you guys um you know over the coming years see come together or blurred a lot where the lines are being blurred or is it just the medium and the platform that you know caters to completely different players that might not even be compatible with each other is that something that um that you can already see anywhere likes to like i can jump in there i i think it's predominantly it's been down to technology um and you haven't been able to play more sort of hardcore games on on uh ipad iphone that kind of thing um i do

think now with i mean you mentioned uh um placo you know when you were talking a minute ago and they made a fantastic acquisition yesterday of uh goodbye digital um and they they bought them exclusively for the pixie js engine uh you know which is effectively another form of unity engine uh another form of um uh unreal engine um which is going to become more and more important in the future and i i think it's uh yeah it's sort of very uh turning point time for the technology of being able to catch up to put more and more larger games on on smaller platforms i think when you look at how everything started in about 2010 and 11 with let's say these days were called html5 games uh and you compared to games which are possible right now on the platform uh

well which games are live on instagram games already you see that like the the evolution was quite let's say dramatic you know so we started like a super simple kind of flappy bird style of games and now you can basically you know simulate i want to call it like this or rebuild let's say like an uh like a deep um uh casual games game with like let's say like a core game which three or so whatever with a uh also um deep middle layer around this uh easily and basically if you would ask a customer like the end user okay is this an app or is this uh an instant game that would probably not even know about it yeah and yeah and as adam said as well like now with let's say major acquisitions happening in this space like the the conservation has started let's say in this space and mainly driven by plaque right now you will see okay more and more people now have to deliver uh including us as well uh now like um like an experience which basically uh

yeah is following um the expectations of of the user base you know they want not only like say hyper casual simple casual games they want to have also like this kind of deeper game game experience at the end today interesting um geo yeah i think player expectations are the key i think on the back office side technology can merge and be very closer and so you will have instant gaming with very you can have very hardcore games but in the enter platform uh you know casual players are not looking for the same games as our car player i think there will be should be a difference around that um the cotton provider will be will have to choose their target obviously um because i know my my my wife or my mother they do play in the same game on you know on several platforms they have no interest in the kind of game i'm playing so

you cannot mix the offer that the offer should be clear um and you have to have dedicated platform for different kind of players so maybe the technology behind would be the same or approaching but the platform would should be very different because you have to speak to the right audience yeah that makes sense um speaking about technology um i'm wondering if there's anything particular on you know in in the technology that you guys seen over the last you know two three years that actually enabled different game mechanics or different ways of play on is there is there something like that i i have to say i don't really play on any instant games um because you know when you're developing then you focus on the on the platforms that you're that you're on developing on and now active on but uh is there any particular cool thing that you guys can point out that uh came up with cloud technology

and instant gaming that we should check out i think i think one of the um i guess one of the implementations that we're seeing um in different places is the idea of kind of like real-time multiplayer collaboration um and so if you're if you're taking the idea of like generating you know robots obviously on a tear and everyone wants to there's a lot of people trying to build a company in that space um the idea of bringing multiple creators together in a space that feels very sandboxing allowing allowing them to create together i think that stuff is is super interesting and i think has a way to go almost making it as easy to create a game as it is to write something in google docs um and there are people kind of embedding that type of technology either within games or developing cool networking technology that allows that type of experience to exist and it's starting to emerge and um [Music] very interesting trend i think the other side of it is and maybe a little bit in it like taking this in a slightly

different context like where does the audience sit and what are they doing so if you if you think about a streaming audience and um people looking at their favorite influencer and wanting to engage with that personality through a game um the idea of having interesting game formats where an influencer is leading and the crowd is kind of controlling elements of the gameplay or assisting um those types of moments i think are really interesting and we look a little bit like leading companies in space like genvid and what they're doing in terms of the idea of different types of gameplay formats along along the idea of the kind of miles concept um that people frequently reference and how do games really change when they become [Music] massively social i think all of all of that stuff is really really cool and still very early um don't get me wrong and no idea what's going to kind of like win out there but it's really exciting to watch picking up this one as well like probably something what basically has

definitely not changed uh is that um still there you have to have you have to deliver like an instant instant game experience so basically uh the game has to be uh loading time between the click and the initial experience has been like within seconds you know i don't want to wait you know i don't know i just want to skip this kind of downloading part i just want to click and bump in there so what has definitely not changed since the early days of instant gaming is that you know you have to deliver this kind of instant gaming experience especially when it comes to the kind of viral play uh parent just just referred to um for example like um our largest game right now on facebook is being played mainly by um let's say countries where um they might not have let's say the most stable internet connection or the the best detailed devices that say uh so also there you have to keep in mind okay hey just creating like the latest biggest awesome 3d game which at least takes 10 seconds to download will probably not work instead of having like a

super slim easy to understand that's a game game experience i think that's that's something that definitely has not changed and what has changed is like at the beginning there were no tools at all now at least you have some tools yeah i i agree completely i think in terms of mechanic the biggest influence is obviously certainly from instant games is because of the the platforms that are pushing instant games you know so the the virality of those games the the um the shared play that sort of stuff is all part of the the social platform um so they're fantastic mechanics to be able to bring into games from from the start um i i do think you're right in what you're saying though like the the the biggest limitation of cloud gaming is is your access to it and i think that's you know when you start looking at platforms like um uh nvidia's geforce now that kind of thing you if your internet connection isn't good

enough you can't play the games you know that's that's that's the sole problem with it and i think that's that will we're still a good few years off being able to have sort of full quality aaa titles being able to play them over the cloud certainly well actually i i'm kind of already very impressed with what microsoft is doing with explain um that's something very very interesting in terms of user experts it doesn't change the mechanics so it doesn't require to change link also touch control better touch control can be useful right so maybe developers will have to have in mind that even a console or pc game should be playable with you know different kind of controller as they are right now but i i have to say that i'm already very impressed um on how easy it is it is to access like a game pass [Music] past collection of game right now and to

be or to be fair um i'm seeing games all day long when i come back to all my clients um and don't want to sit again in front of a computer and said since i'm using that service i'm i'm playing a game at night but you know for my sofa on my phone with a controller remote on it and in terms of user experience it's really bringing something it's not perfect yet as we say uh the connection is very important but i really feel there is something here in terms of providing really providing gaming everywhere that that will not be just a model uh it can be something really you do you find it more comfortable playing playing on your your phone streaming the game than playing on the console at the moment you know if you're sat on the side you must know that i i don't have any other alternative uh you know i i don't want to uh you know to occupy the the family tv at night my

wife yes so and i have the same problem yeah still i want to be with my wife so i can sit on the sofa so my experience at the gamer is is less good but i can play and and to be honest i i play very uh a lot of games that i i have my so i need to play that for for months or a year and since i'm using that service i can play again this is this is great advertisement for cloud gaming saving everywhere um this is cool um looking at the consumer point a little bit uh i want to touch on that because uh you know i'm i'm old school because mainly because i'm old uh i used to live in a time where you went into the shop and bought boxes and took them home and displayed them on a shelf and that certainly isn't happening anymore that much you know i think we all agree on that digital downloads are the thing and they're super convenient and easy and quick um if you have a good connection and digital is really the the paradigm

right now um i i one of the things that i um that uh that strikes me and that i i would love to hear what you um what you guys think about is is that that moving away from a physical object or you know even a digital object that you still have in your storefront or wherever you manage your collection um to something that's right there um is that changing consumer behavior and particular consumer loyalty to maybe not just a game but even a brand or a developer a publisher brand is that something that you guys are seeing or is it really not that important as well possible too i've been here like so basically like by um let's say by the folder you everybody would basically expect okay hey um it's a game it's just another one is just one click away so it's very simple to just jump from another to another to another like bit comparable to the web games

yeah you can still play on a browser as well but interestingly it's like in our case uh we have like i don't know 20 games or 25 games live right now actively live on facebook we see that these are definitely um yeah having a very loyal user base uh so people tend to have some kind of routine they're coming back every day and if sometimes facebook is changing the entry point then they're basically like uh sending us a lot of them you may say hey i cannot access the game well what's going on and how can i get in there so um i i would say um okay like it's easier much much easier for for a user to get into a game again so when there's an app i can install on the on the device but even if it's not then still they they show this kind of like um traditional um they always find their way back to the game in general they're definitely not uh um you know um i'll say like what's

it called um um ephemeral um that's that's i think that i've heard for this one um so people are no people are playing the games like since two or three years let's say we see like like people were staying there very very very long time actually yeah that's awesome so there's some uh some loyalty there and i think that's great um and it's not all just uh hop and jump right we do have a challenge we do still do have a challenge here there will be loyalty to the platform but for publishers like us uh with so many games available so easily it will be very difficult to maintain build loyalty to uh to produce a brand or or even to a studio brand so you know like if i'm asking you who made that movie you saw on netflix last night and i'm pretty sure you don't know the producer behind it so so the risk for

for companies like us uh if they're spread that we will be just content provider to a platform so the user will be loaded to the platform because he's paying there he has his catalogue of content there but um will it be loyal to my brand and that's something very challenging for me interesting um do you almost see that um you know as a conundrum like uh that that triggered companies like disney and many others to actually put up their own streaming platforms because they didn't want to get lost in uh you know some of the other early ones i'm not in a disney position so so yeah i'm not sure disney has loyalty issue but for sure that's something they should have think about you know providing [Music] movies to netflix is not the same time owning the platform and i was saying uh loyalty will go to the platform over time rather than content makers or content producers or game

makers that's a challenge that we will have to face in the next year yes if that goes as big as we expect we will have to to face those challenges and i guess i can general problem right i'm like if i would be an app developer still i would have the same issue right i mean it's not just specific for cloud gaming or instant gaming uh um segment it's i think it's a general issue like uh you have to basically be good at building an own brand so that people understand ah okay hey now this is not games game so i have to go and find another one so it's all about like branding itself crossfit motion so that you basically keep the users within your ecosystem and not giving them the chance to leave immediately after they played one two three sessions i'd say i think like as a content provider general issue if i'm a movie maker or an app developer or an instant game developer or whatever else it is at the end of the day yeah yeah i wonder if um one of the other questions that popped into my head was

that is uh marketing is obviously a big thing right for any kind of content that you want to promote itself um is marketing changing um is um you know the difference of the platforms of instant gaming of cloud gaming uh is that something that will require marketing and you know sales tactics to change as well um you know obviously you want to leverage what the the platform itself like social platforms for instance bring but uh is there anything else that people in the audience can can look at and think about when it comes about marketing content on the cloud i think it certainly brings a lot more complexity um you know when you're when you're running across multiple different platforms every platform has a specific store or multiple stores that you're trying to sell through you want to collate all of that information you want to be able to see how you know paid campaigns are performing so there's definitely

there are definitely changes that will need to happen over time but i don't think we're at the point yet where you can truly play in any ecosystem so at the moment sort of instant games are held to snap held to to uh facebook um as soon as that breaks away from that container i think you'll start to see that that kind of thing happen more so so epic is a fantastic sort of example of this you know with with fortnite where you can play on pretty much anything um to run advertising campaigns for that you need to either run specific per platform or if you're if you're trying to target people you need to retain all of the information and understand how how those campaigns are performing and which platforms the users are coming into and all of that sort of stuff so there are a lot of changes that would need to happen over time i think also one observation i have is that um when when you're talking about the question on loyalty and i think it's tied to this element of like how do you actually you know the

cloud is meant to be hopefully solving for this problem of um you know the idea of the app store maybe not being necessarily fit for purpose and encouraging certain types of gameplay that encourage higher levels of monetization and therefore setting up this like ltv cac equation that isn't necessarily valuable um for the player and um you know maybe the cloud and instant gaming and and gaming on on the web is allowing more people to discover without necessarily incurring the same cost of acquisition um i think the one high-level observation i've always had is when you think about gaming going mainstream and the retention of um you know social networks for example if you compare the retention curve for a social network versus a retention curve for a game it's a dramatically different equation and so i mean when you're talking about games like fortnight fortnite is probably best in class in terms of month and month retention and people always come back for the events and they they generally don't have a problem when they're thinking about you know brand brand marketing um

brand-based advertising around either events or you know the valencia um type stuff that's they've partnered with right now like that stuff is like phenomenal done done very very well um i think the broader problem within gaming that we sometimes see is um there's maybe a bit too much focus on brand that takes a really long time to build up versus a focus on something that resembles more performance-based marketing and i think that's across the piece um so if you're you know and i would encourage people to kind of be honest as to why they're doing what they're doing so if you're developing a game for an intergame platform because you know cost of acquisition is really really low that's fine but you need to design in a certain way similarly if you're a roblox studio and you're you're building on roadblocks because there are you know 200 million monthly actives that's fine um but it means that the game looks like something specific to that platform versus something that maybe is a highly retentive product um like you know the triple hd would we put

out there or resembling something like a fortnite battle royale type game um so there are specific design decisions i think that match to what type of retention profile you're able to achieve and then these platforms themselves have to do more on discoverability as well it's still really painful actually in a lot of cases to play these games and they know that and they're great studios working to try and improve that and get the platforms to improve but all of these things are related i think it's not only on the platform side i would even say it's also on the on the truth side because like you know like it's in games has been a niche market so far let's say um but it's let's say like the general overall um way how it works is the same so you can grow a game through marketing you do ua and then you boost the game into the charts uh that's and i think everywhere the same probably the roblox the same on instagram the same and they have source for sure as well but i think what's missing there i don't know like there's a like a attribution tool right now out there who's no supporting for example especially instant games or roblox or whatever it is at the end of the day so that on the

just on the platform side i think it's also on the under on the oval two side you know it's not like that the ecosystem on instagames um is like when it comes to the the features that facebook is providing or snapchat is providing now they're evolving they're working on this but at the same time you know like when it comes to the kind of the whole marketing ecosystem there are a lot of tools actually we are missing it uh every time and we're always trying to push like various sites to say hey guys we need this and that at least hey and now so um i i i think um yes definitely like the retention curves are looking different but at the same time still just you know like user acquisition costs are way way lower plus you don't forget the social graph or the social the k-factor which is basically bringing like a huge uplift as well on top of it so for sure as always you have to think about a game which is like suitable uh for uh or adjusted to the specific platform um plus also like doing the the right ua uh um

stuff then then you can you can boost the game for sure i think you don't have to like rethink everything right now you know forget about everything what you've learned from from other platforms that's definitely not yeah it seems there's some uh opportunities out there in the tool area for for for that part of the industry there as well right um cool um let's uh let's save this the business topic uh for the last couple of minutes uh i'm really curious um you know it's it's very fairly well known how things work on mobile on for mobile mobile games uh in the app stores um fairly um you know pretty similar to how it works in the pc world or the console world for developers uh in terms of business models right you um either go to a publisher you publish yourself uh the platform takes a fee um and which also now uh in varying amounts which i think is a good thing um and uh and that's it um is it exactly

the same for the uninitiated among us out there in the cloud or instant game space um what are the differences and do you see new models maybe developing in terms of business models for developers um that the technology potentially will enable and allow for well obviously subscription-based services are new to us for you know pc and console producers so that's something that's both a risk an opportunity for us um it will be you know as a publisher you know one of my job now is to pick the right partners for the game i have being you know putting it on game pass as i said before we have many club partners on local markets do i go exclusive do i don't go exclusive so it's a it's a lot of new business opportunities that are that

benefits both me and the students i work with but on the long term let's say we have a few key players that that breakthrough like a netflix uh of of gaming coming in in the next year uh and and it becomes like uh you know someone i cannot avoid is like my main client it may change my business model over time but right now it's it opened a lot of doors rather than it changed you know it's business it's business development as usual with a lot more partner i would say interesting yeah i'm like generally i would just just to add like the business model itself from from the game side i think it's more or less similar to i mean like i can say on instant games or snap as well compared to their business so it's all about inner purchase or advertisement probably more more towards advertisement than than

inner purchase but in general you can also there adapt again that the learnings from let's say like as you've been like an app developer beforehand you can adapt this kind of learnings also to the to the instant games um um area i think this whole this whole space is it's kind of starting to form still so i would be more focused on encouraging like recurring usage and a user base that is growing um and almost like lowering the cost of delivery and once you have those factors i think all of the things that everyone's kind of talked about you know kind of like iap type stuff advertising subscriptions i think you can layer those on in a very sensitive way um but i think it has to be based around you know like the popularity of any given title um and and that is definitely something which we will see in this space for sure whether it's you know or within instant games or within some kind of like cloud

gaming type service with content that's aggregated or whatever else yeah it's definitely audience it's definitely audience with with instant games at the moment you know for the for the last few years it's been limited to facebook that was the only platform that you could run sort of instant games on um i think now as other platforms start to pick them up html5 becomes more usable in in the world i think you'll start to see more areas that you're you're able to access the content and then it's is it's exactly that it's it's being able to advertise that content and get get the user base there cool um with new platforms emerging and competition being introduced right um do you guys see exclusivity of content as something that's uh bound to happen as well or is it just not that relevant because you're you're addressing a a huge um a huge range of of an audience

will there be an uh a facebook exclusive or something else like that for sure for sure they will buy studios to to make exclusive content as well yeah and uh exclusive is already a challenge for platforms as it was before for consoles you know each console has exclusive titles i would say um any cloud gaming platform will have to have their exclusive content and and i think not breaking any nga we all have uh exclusive discussion going with several partners and and that's that's the way i would say the the challenge is both for us and but also the challenges platform on the platform side we need uh they need to grow and to force himself into market leaders and i'm pretty sure no one would become a market neither without investing massively on specific titles

yeah similar to what happened in the council for sure um that's a long game right and the movie world of course like going back to the netflix and disney plus you know you need the content there yeah yeah now it's all coming together apparently um very cool um i think we're we're slowly approaching our time and there is a kelly that just popped up um i do want to get one more quick question in kelly if you're okay to do that uh yeah i think we can yeah awesome uh just around the table here um i usually like to leave the audience with some you know quick round of resource tips from all of you uh if there is a particular website a blog a book um or anything else that you um you can recommend maybe a new platform that um that developers should really check out um i'd love to hear it and um so we can we can share that knowledge uh guillaume i want to start with you and then i'll just go around

well it's not only cloud wise it's more like a general uh business inside the information i really like the game discover.co uh newsletter they are providing very nice info around that it's console uh pc uh yeah it's all about improving your sales it's actually interesting cool awesome thank you so much alex uh yeah i'm just basically thinking about like where i'm basically getting more of the information from um so as we are working quite closely with facebook uh we are getting a lot of information directly from from them so uh i would like to open up some kind of color but i think uh i i will get into trouble um then afterwards um give me a second i would think about it what it would be like a nice thing but there are like several html5 blogs out there uh which i can highly recommend to follow um i just need to basically uh um because like they are popping up in

my my books always and uh i would basically recommend if you're interested in this kind of instant game space uh following on the one hand for sure like the the uh the facebook events and the facebook blog that's the one thing and then if you basically look around for for html5 game blocks there are tons around like at the html5 game def cool forum for example is very good uh where a lot of people help each other in terms of development questions around pixi and also phaser and um yeah there are definitely other other opportunities out there cool good tip thank you so much adam uh i'd i'd obviously have to say my podcast um but other than that uh we've i i saw actually um michael kakov the constructor of fun is a phenomenal podcast that everybody i would hope already knows about um but i did see he literally just released an episode with justin waldron from placo um talking about the the acquisition and stuff so it's it's it's a very interesting episode and worth a listen

yeah great tip absolutely um perrin what's your secret share it that was gonna that was gonna be my one um so definitely definitely listen to that and then um you know matt ball is amazing so just read it read everything he writes basically and then repeat them repeat all those insights on panels like this yeah matt ball is phenomenal last one i can't recommend matt ball enough yet cool well thank you so much gentlemen um really really appreciate uh you're trusting me with uh what's moderating saying goes to pocketgamer thank you for for being here and uh giving your your insights on on this on the topic i'm really appreciate it thank you kelly thank you thanks carl thanks and thanks everybody for participating and thanks for some really interesting viewpoints i suppose into the direction with which we're going in big screen gaming i think it's pretty obvious to

everybody from this panel particularly that the future is not quite written but it is sort of half a song so thanks everybody and uh please stay in touch with all of these fantastic people because follow them on linkedin follow them on twitter they've all got something amazing to say parent didn't talk about warm handshake but that sorry warm intro but i really love that as well so mad props to you um okay thanks so much for being here everybody we're gonna be back later for another track at pocket game and connects digital that means more great talks