Panel:Are Ads the Right Monetization Method for Your Game?

[Music] let's kick things off i would like to work on our first panel to the stage on the subject of our ads the right monetization method for your game um and i'm uh going to be joined by uh joey tan from moby tony chow from ab lovin and josh nielsen from east side games so if you come to the stage chats and we'll um we'll kick off here thank you very much now we're going to be making some uh some time for some questions at the end so if you have anything you want to ask please do we've got some great knowledge and experience here so please don't be afraid to ask questions uh i'll specifically ask at the end but if you want to throw your hand up at any point

do i try and keep my eye out also i'll i will be monitoring zoom to see if we've got any questions from from outside the room so let's get things started we're here to talk about our ads the right monetization method for your game obviously we're the the games business is a business at the end of the day and we want our games to make money so we can go on making more of them um so in this session we're going to discuss monetization strategies for your game and hopefully share some advice about maximizing that and doing the right thing by your players and by your uh by by your game let's talk about the pros and cons of various monetization methods particularly ads so first of all i would like uh to invite you guys to introduce yourselves and and your company just a few words let's break the ice let's start down this end and uh i'm tony can you give us some insight into yourself on your game great sounds good so hi everyone my name is tony chow and i work on the north american business development team at applevin is a leading marketing software platform that provides tools for developers to grow market and monetize their apps

thank you and josh hey i'm josh uh i'm from vancouver bc the country way up there um yeah and i'm one of the co-founders of eastside games eastside games is a developer but also a publisher of uh games we mostly focus on uh near to vital games great thank you and uh yeah please hi i'm joby uh head uh global business development for gaming for in moby uh and in moby uh we're an ad exchange uh but we're much more than that we connect uh our content creators uh advertisers and audiences worldwide great thank you so um between our panelists we've got a a number of angles into there into the monetization options that that we have as uh as developers so let's start and this is this is a question which we'll just spend the whole often time about this one question i think what are the what are the forms of monetization that exist well what are they can we can we uh can we catalogue them there's a range as i mentioned but there's there's loads of

other ones so let's just throw some out there that are the ways in which you can monetize your game tell me what um tony let's just start with you but let's let's let's just try and come in a little bit of a catalog and be as comprehensive as we can what are your options well yeah i mean obviously today we're going to be talking about ads so ads is one of the biggest foreign monetizations you also have in-app purchases you also have subscriptions and so there are these different ways of monetization and a few more and so those are kind of like the top ones that most publishers will be aware of yeah exactly you mentioned their ads in-app purchases subscription um josh as a game developer on the panel what are what are you what do you use and is there anything else to add to that list yeah for our games that's you know our bread and butter is iap and then we have subscriptions as well but probably above that would be um rewarded video ads and the biggest change there i think is being uh especially since more people are playing games than ever is uh just to have

a good inventory and a good flow within your game and what's changed the most is the industry has just matured so much since we first started putting rewarded video uh in our games and you have to kind of like incorporate that into your game you can't just throw a button on anymore that says watch a video there has to be really be you know some sort of reason why the player would want to incorporate that into their game can't break up the gameplay for older games as well you see all sorts of uh types of monetization and games in there as well and i think hyper casual and you know some of those type of games they're going to use other sorts of ads banner ads interstitial ads that maybe aren't rewarded but players kind of understand that because that's a way that they sort of pay for the game just got to make sure that it flows with sort of the process that you have in your game yeah absolutely and we're going to come back to that topic about making it the experience work um but yeah so job is there anything else that we've missed other other forms of

monetization that you've got the short story of going last on this one by the way some of them would be mentioned already but is there anything we've missed yeah so what we're trying to do is bring like the tv experience to uh and have games uh um and you know have show a lot more of the branded advertisers out there i mean of course there's gonna be a gaming app install which we see quite often but uh um much like tv you want to see uh the big brands out there um you know that uh make uh the app feel more uh premium right uh tv experience a youtube experience and and that's where you know the the um banner ads will come out interstitials and even reward video with brands mixed into the gaming app install yeah yeah no that makes a lot of sense i see that there's um there's been a little bit of news crossing my desk of of immersive ads that are kind of if you like kind of non-intrusive or whether that's audio or kind of uh in in a virtual environment they're kind of in the background or you know that like

like you you know um kind of billboards beside a racing game this kind of thing is that a trend that we're that we're seeing is there anything anything else that's kind of new that's been adding to the the arsenal of of uh monetization options uh on the on i i can't really speak much on the audio side of things but on the co-development side of things i would say it's another area of advertising so to speak because you're bringing the real world into events that you're having so you're seeing a lot more of that development which we kind of did a lot more back in the facebook game days where you have a popular show you weave that popular show into an event that you're having we're seeing that a lot more in mobile games especially with live ops that you want something that's tied to the real world so you're seeing stuff that has to do with uh sports playoff series you're seeing stuff that has to do with big events in the world and kind of tying that big event in the world with something which is uh more of sort of an organic way of advertising that i

think you're going to see a bigger growth in that area as well did you chip in there yeah exactly um so uh yeah i was just speaking to a buddy at ea and he gave a great example of in game ads like you mentioned the kansas city chiefs stadium the actual stadium they've completely sold out the inventory the ad inventory there so they're looking for the next big thing and what's the next big thing is to sell their virtual ad space on their virtual stadium uh on the on the madden or madden game right so um it's for additional uh ad inventory it's fantastic for that but uh in game ads it's still nation right it's still it's still fairly new but i think the the advertiser community also published your community are looking forward to that additional um ad inventory feels more authentic to you right yeah yeah you have a hoodie in your game you want it to be

you know you want it to be champion or or whatever versus just your you can get the real advertisement for that then players actually want that they want that authenticity um before we move on like i've got loads more questions is premium still a a popular format in mobile is premium an option for developers it's a good question uh it's that's fair enough it's a it's a it's it's uh it still exists right i think um okay let's let's um let's talk about something i'm just going to go to joshua but i think i'm getting water chipping on this because you mentioned it very briefly there about the the experience um how do you ensure that the ad experience is sympathetic to your audience um you know whether that's the rate or the frequency of the ads or the type of ads that you use or the type of options that you use or the way you do it you know how do you balance making a business out of your game with making a great game and keeping your players happy yeah that's a good question

over the years it really has to be with having a good relationship not with with your game team that's making the game with your ad ops team that's within your team and then with whatever company you're using to be a partner uh within that so you just have to make sure that you have everything fully stocked up you're on the same page in order to make sure that you're doing a collaboration i just went down the street and checked out the uh nike store and um they have a lot of collabs with like third parties in there but if they have their stuff on the shelf in that store you still are represented about that store so it's the same thing with with your games if you're gonna have ads in your games you have to make sure you're planning that from the beginning and make sure you're working with partners uh that and technologies that you can always have a fill rate if you don't have an ad fill rate you have to make sure that you're showing players ads from within your own games or something else because they'll want to figure that out you have to figure

out how to make sure people get paid out if they get that like for example in one of our games uh funko pop blitz um there's a wheel you could spin a lot of games have this feature and then if you want to spin it gain you can watch another ad in order to to to do that but if there's no ad for that it's gonna be a really poor experience it's gonna look like the game is broken just because you don't have fill right so it's stuff that you really have to think about in designing the game now right down to the technologies versus before we would make a game and then be like well how about ads like throw ads in there it doesn't really work like that anymore you have to think about that from the ground up absolutely i think we'll come back to that so um tony did you you know do you want to to chime in on that how you know what's your kind of experience on making sure that the ad experience is sympathetic to the game experience yeah i know for sure i mean like i think josh hit on some great points i think there are also some services out there for publishers who really own that brand safety element of their apps and so a lot of publishers will really think about like how to grow the games and how to get more users and maximize the

revenue but i think core to that too is like how do you prevent users from leaving your games in the first place and making sure that you eliminate user churn as much as possible and so one of the services that max developers can use is something we call ad review and ad review provides user journey insight so that you know for every single player which ads they saw at what time stamp from which networking really gives you an opportunity to really action on those steps and so i think very much to josh's point it's just how do you make that experience as delightful as possible when you're partnering with all these different demand partners yeah yeah absolutely and joey do you have a any insight into that as well yeah i mean i i think the you know so something like uh max is doing a great job of allowing uh developers worldwide to work with different uh ad exchanges and networks uh and using them what they're good at right uh for example you know in moby we do well internationally we have a demand in nationally india indonesia and latin

you know places where android is huge so um you know somebody like a max does a real good job in making it easy for that developer to to plug in uh to us and and you know help them monetize their international inventory that way so it's it's working with that the correct partner and um uh utilizing their strengths yeah in fact actually that's a good point so on that note my next question is if you're a developer working on a game right now perhaps someone in ireland is doing exactly that and they look at successful games they look at supercell or something and they see that they only they only use in-app purchases or they look at another another successful game when they see that they're you know they're a subscription base but they might not be right for you so how does a developer working on a game choose what is the right model for them is it about the game or the size of the experience what would be your first piece of advice in fact you want to dive in there and yeah i i i okay i i think they pretty much have to pick and choose and they have to uh accustom tailor it uh right um you know uh iap is great uh in

tier one countries uh us uk it does a great job like i mentioned earlier in tier two uh you're out there in india and you know indonesia and malaysia and philippines uh iap is not gonna be as big so you're gonna have to custom tailor that and uh um you know show them some ads right and that's where we come in right i always love it when they when they bring us in so it's it's it the answer is always it depends right uh right yeah the gameplay looks like what the audience looks like and uh you know how that will go go forward yeah josh because you mentioned this as well and and um kind of got me thinking there as well but when the games that you make how do you uh how did you reach the decision about what was the best way to monetize or was it trial and error or did you kind of you know or did you have a model in mind to start with how do you decide what's right for your games yeah so i'll use trailer park boys example trailer park boys have been around for five years

it's one of the most successful narrative vital games uh around um and our fans have constantly just wanted more ways that they can engage and they could uh play in the game uh and we started with iap and then they wanted other ways that they could compete in events outside of iep so we actually have a lot of players that play and we've even tried experiments in the past where people think just because people are spending in the game for uh coveted items that they don't want the ads as well and and i think you just have to have that selection open and make sure that it's really just uh sort of baked into your game like for trailer park boys it's a really simple game but the ads uh will come up in a way that the crew will will be in different areas you see lots of games with this sort of simple fine game and then if you find it at the right time you could watch that ad and then you can get some premium currency

which you can use for the upcoming event so i think people really like that as well because it gives them the opportunity the choice to do that um on sort of another note on that side of things you have to be really careful what partner that you work with and make sure that you work with a technology company that gives you full visibility into what ads are going to be into your bidding system or your waterfall because if you have a bad ad experience that's one of the biggest ways that you can see churn of your players which is horrible so somebody might leave your game because they're not able to close an ad or they might leave your game because your ad is rated at a certain rating and you have something in your game that's totally not appropriate or the ad is misleading so it comes down to if you're going to have ads and you have to think about all this stuff now because it's very advanced you're not just going to be getting ads in your game for competitive games you might be getting outside of your genre you have to make sure that you're compliant so it's also a compliancy thing as a

developer and you don't want to get flagged from one of the networks for having something in your game because that's still content your game you still have to own that yeah how do you manage that relationship uh obviously we've got two great service providers here on stage too but as a developer do you have to have a dialogue with the with the network that's providing your ads you know what's your how do you manage that exact situation that you've just been describing making sure that the ads are appropriate it's uh yeah it comes down to you have to have now in your in game teams you have to have somebody that's sort of responsible on your team that watches that that meets with people on the regular and you're working with companies that have uh good like there's lots of companies out there that have really good dashboards that could be full visibility on how to do everything from reporting an ad to getting that information from a player there's other companies that well let's say not so good so you have to vet that out and see what works best for you as well i mean when you're starting out you don't have a lot

of choice when we started out we we wanted to put ads in we were doing it as simple as possible or doing it maybe right from the easiest option like a unity or something because it was just easy to do and then as we grew something you're going to have to grow for as your game grows and scales in order to watch that because we're seeing people like one of these guys would know the average but sort of we're seeing people consuming anywhere from five to two eight ads uh per day and you have to make sure they're good and high quality like that's a big touch point so you wanna make sure it works if you had people going to your iap five to eight times a day and it didn't work for one of those times that would be horrible it didn't work for two of those times that wouldn't be a good user experience at all uh did you want to chip in on that tony you're just the uh the yeah the uh how do you uh how do you how do you manage that relationship and how does a developer here know that ads are the right thing for them yeah no definitely i mean very much similar to josh's point

like i think preserving that brand safety element to each of your apps is extremely important i think it's really been like a growing trend over like the last five years and so i think safety was one of the first services made available a few years ago and i think that was really kind of like the turning point to publishers realizing that like oh hey there is like a piece missing in like my daily operations which includes protecting the ad quality element and so for nowhere it's like app 11 and maybe like like um mob as well as you know we have a ton of advertisers running on our platform and so you know it may not be a match advertiser to specific publisher and so that's when we kind of come in and really offer like these services to make sure that like preventing as much malicious ads to the content that's made available um you know it may fit for like another ad or app i should say but trying to make sure that like we prevent user churn as much as possible by providing these uh insights is very crucial so i'm gonna sort of stick with you and we'll we'll we'll go down the um the panel and get different perspectives

on this but at what point do you have to decide how you're gonna monetize your game i'm i i'm not a developer myself but i assume you have to know from the start but but is it possible to be working on a passion project you know making on a game you've got a game idea in mind that you think might be great for premium or subscription but then be able to pivot that to ads later on how when when can you when do you have to decide and is it possible to change your monetization method if you're wrong yeah i mean that's a it's a great question i myself am not a developer as well so this may be a good question for josh but i think regardless of what the monetization model is for every app i think user acquisition will always have a big role in how you grow your apps from zero to one and so every publisher like our creators at the end of the day they have an idea that they want to make and iterate on and create these delightful experiences and so the way that user acquisition fits into some of these publishers pipelines is really how do you find the right audience to market your games to in like this you know increasingly growing crowded space where app

discovery becomes much more challenging and so there's a ton of different networks that offer these platforms apple open provides different campaigns where you can run campaigns that can fit whatever users you need to and so essentially every dollar that you put in should bring back some relevant relevant users that make the most sense and so we're very much performance based i know in moby's also like uh brand based and so i always recommend advertisers to have a good demand mix of where they uh plan to advertise your apps all right great and financially yeah let's let's ask joby first and and then go to to just but what's your take on that you know when you're developing a game at what point do you have to make these decisions and can you change can you change how you monetize your game later right i think you have to take a look at your game type also right uh and even as far as layout right are you using portrait layout are you using landscape layout um where will the ads go i mean can you fit a banner in a landscape right will that look funny out of place and

because usually you see them in portrait layouts right and then you'll also have to take a look at uh session time and session depth but uh if you value if you have a high and longer session depth and like a award game or a puzzle game people play for like 20 25 minutes at a time then that's a captive audience right yeah you can show them uh numerous ads and and they could either engage with it as they they want or ignore it just like you're watching soccer or football and the ads there by the score right so it's something that you need to take that in consideration as well i mean does it fit in with the real estate of your your game that you're showing yeah yeah it makes sense uh yeah josh what's your take on that decision-making process yeah i wish we were on a zoom call so i just turn my camera off and go in my other room and just cry for a bit when i'm coming that's it's it's it's uh

one of the questions since we started publishing that we get a lot but there's definitely it's definitely possible but there's a time when you can go too far down one road to change your game to something else and it might be better at that point just to build a new type of game that's not saying you can't build on the same franchise it's a different thing but you definitely now when building a mobile game have to sort of plan that out for what you actually want to get to at the end you can't have something for for everything i think that's one of the reasons why we we moved into publishing and we started having some success in building games out is because there's all these great development teams and they wanted to make great games but they didn't really want to deal with the business side of games which we can help you do and storytelling a game so uh our narrative idol games are great for just for for telling a story if that's rupaul's drag race superstar or the office somehow we manage or if that's trailer park boys um

these are all great brands that needed to uh that wanted to reach a wider audience but the games that they built before didn't really fit with um business model of games yeah yeah yeah um i'm going to come back to tony there because you mentioned the [Music] in your answer a moment ago about user acquisition and can you tell us a little bit um from from abroad's perspective about how ads and the monetization methods you choose fit into your wider growth strategy tell us a little bit more about user acquisition and the role that the ads play in that and the whole process works yeah definitely i think the best way that i would describe applevin's software is that we're really a 360 growth platform so app discovery is our user acquisition platform that helps advertisers find more relevant users to play their games on the flip side of things we have our own in-app mediation solution called max which is a central stack that helps manage your ad auctions and so ultimately i think with max our goal is

to really help maximize the arp dials of every user that plays your games and as you increase your arp dials you increase the amount of revenue that you can reinvest into user acquisition and so it's this 360 growth cycle that we really like to preach and so i think part of that too is making sure you have the right demand partners on the monetization side and then i think on the user acquisition side is making sure that you know what goals you want to optimize towards whether that's let's say return on ad spend or you want to find users that can hit subscription events i think this is kind of where we come in more it's like growth consultants to figure out what makes sense for your games and then capitalize on it yeah great great thank you and joey you're from in moby's point of view similar same question to you you know what's the what's your what's your take on that and how does it fit into an overall growth strategy oh well and in moby uh you know we definitely do uh some user acquisition um campaigns as well but as i mentioned earlier we're very brand focused so so

you know we don't drive uh as much new users as some of our the other uh exchanges and networks out there but we definitely push forward with our brand relationships and and diversifying the uh the ad experience that way um and also we're uh um starting to boost up our uh discovery piece um you know in the news there's been uh our new product called glance uh which is a lock screen uh product that's on over 150 million handsets right now start starting out of india and indonesia and there the user can you know discover uh new apps discover new content and not only is it just user acquisition and discovery it's re-engagement right so right engaging throughout the day um showing them uh this level that they're on or or this

game that they've been playing uh to check it out because you've enjoyed it in the past so um so definitely boosting discovery is a is is a key and and the re-engagement is huge i'm gonna throw this question to the whole panel um one of the big things that happened last year was uh the idfa situation with uh with apple making it harder for you to get uh data on the game and a lot of mobile performance uh is about data um and google following suit and and it's you know it's an increasingly big topic how has um this changing idea how has that had an effect on how ads work uh and about you know any lessons that developers have to learn now about their their use of ads with with the change in the in the way the data results stick with you joey and then we'll if anyone else wants to weigh in it definitely has uh uh you know had an effect on us especially on the ios side um but

not as detrimental to the business as everyone first feared um especially with the the brand business that sure ford um and uh um you know these past few years with the with the rise of the android traffic and more affordable handsets globally and uh strength group globally um you know we've been able to still deliver that dollars that way so um i i can't say it it's uh negatively affected us that way yeah that's interesting i think that you know at conferences over the last couple years it's been people have been kind of catastrophizing about what it might mean but actually there's still data out there and it doesn't affect everyone right and josh as a developer as has those changes at that level of the the idfa had an effect on what you're seeing and what you need well i think as developers you don't like anything new anything new is like going to be the new disaster but you know i'm being around from the before times with facebook and it was the same thing right

but in the end of the day all of uh i i think all the mobile networks uh you know apple google um just want to make it better for developers so they want to make sure you know these rules are put in place because bad actors come in and they push the line on things and good developers aren't doing those things so the biggest change though would be uh that we haven't really talked about today is just how we have to make ads more entertaining more interactive in the tv world there's people people will watch shows afterwards about super bowl ads and they'll watch them and they'll stream them and they'll watch youtube channels that are just dedicated to great ads so we have to make it if we're going put it in our product it has to be amazing in our product and it has to be funny like some of our engaged uh ads like the rupaul ads that we have people watch it even though they don't play the game they'll watch the ads because it's funny and it makes it's just great entertainment so we have to make sure

um you know uh a good panel to see would be go back 10 years ago and look at what the top performing hats are and put it up today about what the top performing ads are now we have ads that are um you know the biggest the the best ads i think are the interactive ads that you can play and you can have a quick snippet of the game and play along with it and see kind of what the game um will will be and i think you're just going to see more that we have an entire game team at eastside games that just works on building really great interactive ads that have to do with the brand i get approval from the brands that um then roll out and people really love them so um you can no longer just throw out a whole bunch of really um uh crappy ads and hopefully you're gonna get clicked through and it's gonna be fine you have to really spend some time and measure it and get proper tools to do all that stuff yeah the role of the creative itself right that's the important so sorry yes do you want to speak to that as well yeah i mean i think josh hit it like right at the point especially with like

the user acquisition side what we've seen is that creative tests thing has just been like a much more critical point towards like every marketers day-to-day operations i think also on the monetization side now you have all these different app partners that have different ways of buying idfa users and non-idfa users and so as we give users more power over what data they can share i think it also really will push the industry forward in terms of how they innovate and how they can leverage the data that is available to them so so a good example of that is um apps like even outside games apps that know what you want so putting that back into the control of the user if they know like you're going to go shopping for sneakers and you walk by a place that you've liked something in real life on there you like their app they'll be like hey you should check out this or give you a coupon for that place i think we're going to see games doing the same as well to have stuff that's a very opportune time if you have a game about if you have a game like

about the nba you probably don't want to be pushing um to start playing the game right when um they're gonna they're gonna start the game because you're watching the game you're not gonna play but at half time or something that's a good time to hit you with a push notification or an ad to say you should check this out in game yeah yeah that's great that's exactly it we're coming to the end of our session time um we've got just a few minutes left um we haven't received any uh questions over the zoom cause remember we're already broadcasting this but i'm watching that does anyone in the room have a question for our free panelists we've got a lot of expertise here yeah i can see uh someone over there in the czech shirt yeah um yeah so for the people who who couldn't hear me maybe at home because you haven't got a mic the question was what what kind of expectation you can have

about the the the the level of revenue for ads and you mentioned specifically i think working on a strategy game there but but generally how can you kind of yeah reach a reasonable expectation for for ad revenue yeah i mean i think on that question like every game genre whether it's hyper casual or casual the ad revenue or the ad revenue to ib split can usually will trend the same way but sometimes they can vary drastically different so i think like the great part about max is that we have a lot of benchmarking metrics and so i think this might be a good question if you like we want to chat after this like i you know we can exchange contact infos and you know i can go back and see if there's any relevant insights that we can share based on what app you're trying to make in the specific content that's relevant to its other apps um does anyone else want to to uh to reply to alex's question as well yeah the answer is going to be it depends also right it depends on which countries you're you're targeting that's a big one you know how long your user sessions are how engaged your users are you know do you have other forms of monetization and they're um you know iap

um do you have ads as well so um yeah it just depends on you know who you're targeting where you're targeting um and what yeah and then i think also like one point to add on to joby snow too is like with every app and you know every app that is ad monetized in subform it's making sure you have like the right demand partners there too to kind of add competition and obviously add competition you know you kind of maximize the value of every impression opportunity and so every apple different like what are the right demand partners to have and it kind of ranges on a scale of like minimum to maximum value and so i think that's also kind of like where joby and myself and these other network partners will come in and so i'm happy to provide insights on that too after great thank you um oh we've got a couple of questions going oh i think someone's got a mic over there there we go uh hi i was just wondering i guess because i've definitely played mobile games before where i can tell like they're just give me your money essentially so i guess how as the

developer designer do you figure out where that threshold is where you know you are they like the player knows they are still playing a game and it's not just like sort of a money making operation i mean even though it is i guess but you know i get yeah how do you how do you present that in kind of the most like seamless and uh you know sort of good experience for the player yeah that's why we started being a publisher because nobody figured out i mean you have to listen you have to listen to your players um the the biggest one of the other biggest things that i've seen um companies change is when you start a game studio now people are building out from the ground up uh qc so really good um qa really good balance testers and a really good community team so you really need to be in talking your players all the time and communities really change too so you're using new channels like tick tock to

talk to your players and make sure they get the new bounce changes but that's an ongoing every build you have to make sure that you know your ad your monetization and your player flow that that's all being looked at and that everyone's playing your game as well so uh it also becomes a culture when you're building a game building a game studio um that you have to make sure you're playing your game seeing that all time i think that's why you also see sometimes you'll make a game uh and you'll get a whole bunch of clones right away and they don't do as well as you because i don't think they have that heart and they don't have the people playing it to really work with the team to see how that works and being open and transparent with transparent with your um players just to say um this is what we're building together and a lot of that comes out in the live ops event so building along with them to get those exclusive rewards and in the liveops events you're either going to have to

look at ways that you can monetize with iap or ads or put in the time in order to do that and it always amazes you how well people can play your game they'll play it way better than you could ever play it it's like in order for them to maximize against this event they have to be checking into the game every two hours and they do that and they become at the top of the leaderboard and they get those prizes but um that's just something that's ongoing and that's the hardest part about making a game you know we're um we're effectively out of time but i did see one question from over here so let's let's try and squeeze that in you get a mic over there please thank you hi my name is christian villarreal i'm with topalti we make a lot of payouts for gaming companies uh we also make a lot of payouts for affiliate networks as well and uh one of the problems that some affiliate networks have is it takes them a while to get the money from affiliates or from advertisers before they can actually pay it out to affiliates sometimes that lag is 60 90 days

something like that i'm wondering if for gaming companies there is a consideration as far as using ads versus like tips or subscriptions uh free or premium and if there's a consideration for that and then how does that inform what your monetization mix is for a game was this about the the kind of timeliness and efficiency of payout as a deciding factor in in is that kind of where you're driving from right so yeah so to repeat that if there's a if there is a perceived problem with getting money from from advertisers does that drive choosing a different advertising or monetization method

yeah um it like a you know we work with so many different uh you know advertising partners out there and advertising dsps uh sometimes direct sometimes indirect uh they all have different uh um you know schedules so you know i can't really comment on on that uh but uh you know it was definitely a a problem maybe like three years ago four years ago and even when i started in this industry in 2011 right because uh you know the this livelihood for these developers is to get paid on timely matter and and they're looking to sell that ad space that they have so they want it as quickly as possible but that and these days uh you know an exchange like us were uh aggregating you know maybe a few hundred sometimes uh uh advertising partners to get that revenue to you to that one

game studio so you know um sometimes that does take longer than most uh but uh that's that's part of the service that's that's what we bring to the table is to to make sure that we maximize your revenue by pooling all these different advertising sources right i'll tell you what let's leave it there because we're out of time but um i'd like everyone to help me give a round of applause to joey tony and josh you