Meet the developer behind Bradley The Badger, The Game Awards’ most bonkers reveal

Hello. Before we begin this week's edition of the Game Business Show, I would like to advise that we had serious audio issues with this recording. If you would like to instead read this interview with Day foright, you can do so at the business.com. Limitations always work to enhance the creativity and usually make things better. At the same time, it's in the period of troubles, sir. Well, you had to come up with something new. Hello and welcome to the game business show with me, Christopher Ding. If you know anything about me, you'll probably guess what my favorite game announcement from the Game Awards was.
And it was in fact Bradley the Badger.
I love the new game.
A new game from Day for Night Studios. That's a new studio form from many of the people that worked on the Mario and Rabbids games, some of my favorite games. It's also co-founded by Christian

Cantamesa, who's a famous game developer who worked on Grand Theft Auto, Manhunt, Red Dead Redemption, Shadow of Mortal, who was also working recently on the Perth Dark reboot. Now, Bradley the Badger is a cute platform character that wakes up. Okay, sunshine
in a world that he doesn't recognize
FOR A NEW PLATFORMING ADVENTURE. WHAT?
But you and I might. There are levels based on The Last of Us. There's levels based on Bloodborne and Cyberpunk. It's very much a satire and a parody of lots of different video games. Um, it gives me distinct rare vibes. Feels a bit like Compass Bad Ferde. And of course, the game is composed by legendary rare composer Grant Kirko as well. But enough about that. I want to know a little bit more about this studio which is backed by investment from Ed Freezes OneUp Ventures and Craftton. And I'm joined by David Solani and Christian Cantamesa. Hello David. Hello Christian. Welcome to the show.
Thank you Chris. I know how you two pend

together. You worked years and years and years ago but your careers went to very different games um after that. So how did you two reconnect?
Um yeah sure. Um I'm going to tell you my son story and then I'll pass the baton here due to that day. But um we started doing the industry together um in the late 90s. Um I had done some previews at super indie games before but like really the the start of my professional career was with Milan and that's where I met from we worked together on on a couple of games there and then I sort of left for the UK. I went to work uh with DAI which then became Austin North and uh Date Ubisoft and then he also weirdly moved to the UK and can talk about later but we always stay in touch so it's not as much a drink that day. I started to like stay in touch. You were coffee as friends um

about the games that we were playing and the industry and all that. And um we actually really decided to take a plunge into something together. Um after wishing your daddy they got in touch with me to wish you happy birthday. Um and so uh I like responded to them. So they're like we bro something together man. And believe it or not, Ben very
of like casual comment that I'm sure many of my colleagues have said to their friends um actually was the anticipated for this invention.
Wishing in a happy birthday was one of the reason that we started speaking about bring something together. At the same time I think it was the right moment in time for both of us to have the maturity and the need in time of will of doing something very meaningful together [clears throat] and so that's

what we are hoping to do. It may have been the right time for both but it's a pretty weird it's pretty unusual time to launch Mr. Balcony into a digital board to A25. What's your secret? because you got investment and you got backing and you got support the time when most people were struggling. How did he how he pulled that off?
I think that we created something unique, something that stand out both internal story and gameplay mechanics. So they arrived there indust in the period of troubles where you have to come up with something new that's what they believe
VCs like to disrupt right they want something that's going to break into do something completely different and fight you is that is that what you found
in our view is the yeah that was pretty much the sentiment from the investors that we ended up working with but also

the investors that were uh H2.2 I think there's like two categories of of people that investing games. There's the more traditional and sort of like interesting in the trends and continuing these trends and there is the investor that takes bigger risks and bigger swings and at times it's all ups and downs and it's always there are moments where the industry is is very very appealing to investors and that was for example the COVID days and postcoid days and so there was a lot of investment but there was also a lot of investment that was like continuing trends that were ongoing with fresh money. Now, yes, a lot of the a lot of the money has dried up, but it's brought out of the woodworks investors and potentially publishers as well that are now trying to do something different and they're trying to be more innovative or disruptive or

yeah, fill the bar and that's why we managed to get fun.
Was there any fetication with any doubt that he may be off the time?
I don't think we thought about that. I I I I would love to be able to say, "Oh, yeah, we had like the great business case and we just went out there and we were super confident, but I think we just thought we have this game idea and we kind of want do something different than what we've been doing for the last several years and we never thought for a game. Then it was the wrong turn to do it. We we didn't look at the market. We didn't look at the financial from the old day and until it was too late until and like, oh, I guess we're doing it now and this is the this the situation we're in. So, we got to make it work, you know. So, I don't know. We're two creatives. Um, we're not business. As I said before, we are driven by

passion. So, we were not caring too much if the situation was the worst one. If not, it was not the right period of time. If the game was like uh whatever, we were not doing a market research for it. We were just That's what we want to do. That's what we want to play. Let's go. I was a bit of a myth this idea that he stay. It's been cancelled sadly. also actually cut.
It's not like he would have been a safer option just to stick with it. Ed freezes quote I think he called it easily the most creative thing we've seen in quite some time and he certainly got that vibe from the trade show during the game awards judging by the answer he just gave me earlier and you're getting a lot of interest because of that. Are there's there anyone that's sort of going this is too weird where's my souls like
I think everyone was adding fun when we were presenting the game like people were laughing people were interested and some of them was like what exactly I'm

looking at but it was always on the positive side there it's not again forable and it's not game for all the publisher I don't get that and it's normal but uh no I think it was like a very positive reaction I just want to know how your mind work cuz I still don't understand where Mar rabbits came from.
Back in the days we said okay it doesn't make sense to spend time proposing to Nintendo something they already they are better than me doing it and they are already doing it and there's no sense in proposing something to that is already doing. So I wanted to come up with something that was truly uh innovative even if it was very weird at the same time. Initially we were code naming the the whole idea two word collide. We also spent like a month clothed in a mal bigger than this one coming up with different idea

90 ideas exactly. Then we stretch all of them until we remain with kingdom battle and we named that pitch mar kingdom battle. So it remain it also has the same name that we initially invented. No and it's it was something new. So people were like curious to know more about that but it's truly melody.
Yeah. Well I'll come back again the studio. How big are you now?
We're a small game. We're four year old. There's about 24 of us and we're we're going to grow in number a little bit, but we really want to stay small and nimble and kind of make this sort of games that are um taking a few more risks because also our capital investment isn't one of, you know, make or break company. So yeah, we're we're small team. But he sort of touched on my next question is going to be because of the situation in the games industry because

of the the investment situation because of the challenges and trepidation a lot of the companies that were given a huge amount of money from I don't know 10 cent whoever given a huge cash injection they went and spent it they tr because the locket was saying they should and then now they're in a situation where they're trying to see as big rounds as you receive the money is not there anymore and they and they've spent too much and they you they weren't necessarily being conserved at the beginning because perhaps they didn't fully needed to be. You've obviously launched a ton when investment you know investments is hard to find you know things are more challenging. Have you learned so should I say maybe from where things have gone wrong um or some of uh some of the other teams out? I think we're approaching development of this game uh using our experience um making massive AAA games and sort of selecting very carefully the things that work very efficiently for us and sidelining the things that we know never work and often

we were doing because that was how the industry was supposed to give things. Um, and so we're just using the benefit of our experience, which unfortunately is like almost three decades now.
And we're kind of like handpicking the people. We're handpicking the processes. We're putting in places the things that we always want to do. Like every fight in the whole team plays the game. If you made a feature, you're not allowed to play the feature. Somebody else has to play it publicly, but the very one things like that. that sort of like keep everybody just working on the game as opposed to somewhere off in a corner and adding uh you know that feature never really works because uh it's not being integrated properly and you know I I can go on and on and on but what's interesting to us is that um your limitations always work to enhance the creativity and the bound makes usually make things better and so whether it's

creative limitations or financial limitations resources invitations for us. They're just now here. I'm not a way to AFA.
But on top of what Tristan said, we are the C team. We have good team of V up work together for many years with some of them even 20 year. So we completely trust them. They are family. They know what to do and we are agile compared to bigger teams that are harder to manage and sometimes I ended up in my life working with people that I never met before because the team was like 600 people divided in six different parts of the world. Now yes we are working remotely but uh we know each other we talk to each other every single day and there is something else in what we are doing which is a gem every two months we let the team take two days off and create

their own mechanics for the game of course and come up with different ideas and I think it's very empowering I guess that's quite important part let's talk about the fact [clears throat] let's talk about the game because we just seen it the game awards I mean, you launched the studio a year ago and you've already got something. I'm impressed what you managed to put together in 12 months. Am I just naive about end development or has this been quite a seamless quick process to get something? Well, thank you. Yeah, it's been moving very fast. We got funded in late September 2024 and um it's also like like Dalia was saying we we managed to do very goodly because everybody knows what I'm doing and everybody knows each other. Yeah. It's been very straight because this you know I I was very fortunate in that I was bound I joined the MA design
at the tail end of GTA 3. So the last six, seven months in GTA and it was a

small team. It was it was a long time ago but I think it was about 30 people working on that game. Maybe a few more people now will go on mobile games and we'll be like it was this many. I remember it being very small team and moving very quickly
and playing the game together and being in love with the game and I'm feeling that same vibe now with 50 and I haven't felt that in a really long time. Um I think that sometimes um it's easy to
turn you gain it all into a a job. Mhm. And um you know for us at least for me is as in the NFL when getting up in the morning and being like oh here here I'm going to my job it feels like just an adventure every day and so that kind of makes you just want to get going and do more stuff and you know feeling excited and happy about it.
I will be super quick. First of all there's more correction because you see platformer and grab we are an action

bure
with some element of police. Oh, I saw I saw the lion cut from Ghana.
There is a little bit of platform in there, but it's a national bed. So, it's it's it's a bit different. But, uh, as I was saying before, we are agile and we are family each other since the very beginning and this is changing everything in term of fiber but also in term of our personal goal. Our personal goal is not to become rich. Our personal goal is not to become huge as a studio. Our personal one is to do something meaningful and something that we truly feel could be a game that you would love to play. I mean, you know, I would love the uh the but I feel like that you are embodying what I think the industry needs, which is the third option. I feel that so many indie people going into game development now or maybe they want into game development. They sold two choices. either start a very small indie studio and make sweet belly indie which

is wonderful and great but it's super challenging and money is hard and it's competing money in it and um unless you you know come whatever and then there's the other side of it where you work these big 600 10 person teams and you're sort in the factory having a midsize team 12 is not exactly midsize but certainly a bigger team where you can create something and be everyone's involved in development but it's something a bit more sizable or properly funded That's I'd love to see the industry have more of that um in it. That wasn't a question. That was just the um
Well, we agree. All actively agree. [clears throat] You know, we just hope that we we keep the richness of options. So, like I there are a lot of people saying AAA is a dad and all that and it would be
I'm dreadful shame if that was the case because AAA brings uh something major to a table only. No pun intended. I mean, I love to play those games and I love to see the technological prowess how those sort of projects and I like the animation, the Indian animations that

come out of Naughty Dog, right? You just you're like, "Oh my god, here goes the B." Um but then but then also I love the one person beler and if I then you know I I really believe in people playing games and if it's an in game I really believe that people find it will talk about it. I know it's harsh and I know it's hard but um but these gems always managed to to come out and then someone somehow like of the flake in the middle again. Where did this idea come from?
Well, it it came out from our conversations about I mean you you saw you saw the show on the beginning. It's clearly apparently it's a satire of the video game industry and of games and you know the project came out of our passions and desires and experiences and trials and tribulations. So in a way it

it it sort of like it just felt right. It also felt right for us at this juncture in time for the games industry to have a component of satire cuz there isn't that much of it out there. And if you look at every other media um you know there is a healthy amount of you know discussion and irony on the on the techniques and on the genres and on the people themselves that make these sort of things from books to to movies. And we felt like maybe we, you know, we could contribute something for the game's mistakes as well.
Yes. So it would be probably a classical way to respond you, but uh it's a long letter in the game. It's a game that speaks about video game, about the people that are doing the video games and about this industry. So there is a bit of our self in there but also about the people that are working in our team

and I I truly believe that those experiences are shared from also other indie team and other people on type A games and we want to talk about that but we want to do it on in a fun way of course.
Yeah.
Well it's got a rare vibe to it. I mean I don't think that's accidental. You've got Grant Ko. That's a big compliment.
Yeah, [laughter] we've seen it deliver. You've got Grant on the team. What is the connection with those games? What is it? A fan? Is it What is it?
Uh, no. I think it's a fun.
Yeah.
And there is something new that Grant is doing for this game. [clears throat]
No, I won't go that far. But anyway, it's uh it's not time to speak about it. But Grant is doing something fantastic about this game. So uh when we will be ready to speak about it, we will deal more. But uh I I I spent like the last 15

years working with him and even if I always joke
online about with him, it's a it's truly a friend of mine. I love him. I love his work. is truly passionate at what he's doing and uh I think we are getting along super well.
I don't know if I told you this Christian and I think I've come down this years and years ago. This is just after Game of Battle got revealed. I really wanted to interview you. I think you'd rushed out of the room when I was in a room with you. You a bit worried about the game's reception because haven't been announced yet. And um that was a pre Ubisoft fit and um afterwards I really wanted to do that day. uh it would be great to do it with grants and so um I orchestrated this into and the two of you just you know were mean to each other now I got the joke right but after that I called up from a humanoft PR person to try they do really like each other [laughter] that is amazing but they do fight all

the time um but that's part of the charm of having grant work on on our game and you know like a rare a rare wear you know it was such such an inspiration for us. I I want to say growing up we we were kind of grown up a little bit already when when we were playing their games. I mean, obviously I was playing games from Ultimate Software and on my on my ZX Spectrum, but the whole point was that they hit a point that was like a creative apex of like of gaming with Banjo Kazoui, uh, Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, uh, Cooner Back for Day. These are I mean apart from my work on perfect dark at which again sort of like speaks to my um devotion to like uh the rare of the 90s the the whole that whole string of like action adventure platforming games were you know seminal for us

because we were working on
action adventure platforming games actually back [clears throat] in the day we we were doing platforming games for the game caller and so we're working on our games and we're like playing banjo and going like well that's it we should just go home we should just you know find another job make coffee somewhere and so the idea that we can bring some of their magic back from some of that you know Rio is off to great great things now but we are still in love with the olden days of their productions and if we can capture some of the magic again that would be like the the best I got a very conquer vibe. I guess cuz there's a par there's a par.
But you are you are not you are not wrong. There is a conquer vibe. There is a there is a vibe. [clears throat]
Many things that we are doing but starting from also other game not just this not just this one. But to be

honest, like Tristan say that was a point of reference for us and I remember that back in the days when we started Mar plus John Marana which is now the managing director of uh uh [clears throat] the the studio where we are working with them but back in the days was a producer of Marav told me we should uh call rapo and I said are you crazy that guy is going to he's going to ask us for millions and millions if he rich and and a legend. We can't that guy and and then when we sent him a simple mail, he was like super easy going. I couldn't believe it. But the first two months I was completely scared of sending in any any feedback. I was just saying yes. It's fun that really [laughter] the origins of the industry great romance that well I mean I'm a conscious of the time but obviously I know it's not well games action adventure platform game it's conqueror was as well um but

obviously it's it's an interesting genre because they're so you bar platform games astropot all that kind of stuff the bar is so high and they do well but they're not they don't often do I mean actually Mario you know super mega mega well how time for you and the bit with that with this project. Are you trying to beat set expectations well or do you think this could break out? I mean, I know you're creatives, you probably don't think too much about it.
Yeah, I I hate to be like the broken record, but we really [clears throat] don't think too much about those things. Um, we do like the distinction from platformer to action adventure game because we generally have more to offer than than just a platformer. And I'm not saying just in a reductionist way. Astrobot is unbelievable. Um, and rightly so game of the year, but what we're doing has add-ons. Like you can see in the trailer they're doing combat like uh and and it's a combat that I can say having played conquer many times.

It's more sophisticated than conquer. Um, and we have more [clears throat] than that. And in addition to that, we have our um crazy tool that allows you to apply sort of game developer powers to every unfinished object that we have in the game. And that alone adds like a whole new like you can almost make your own platform, right? So that alone adds a whole new uh gameplay um free form aspect that is as weird as this example is going to sound, it's almost more like GTA 3. So that smaller open world game that was really just a sandbox before it exploded into a million of activities and a million missions and very cinematic. GT3 was just that very contained little set of islands, parts of the city where you could just go and create these crazy combinations of things and miraculously they worked. Um,

this game kind of feels like that is that sort of sandbox. Yeah, the whole game rather [clears throat] the badger is built upon the principle of being systemic, completely systemic. So all players will find their own way to solve any environmental challenge and puzzle they will find throughout the game. Uh so I think and what you what people will see in the trailer is just the type of the iceberg of the mechanics that we have in plan for the game. So I think uh the the the innovation around the mechanics is one of the strength of our game.
Good. I'll ask two very very quick final questions. Are you looking for a publishing partner? Are you working crafting stuff? Is you looking for a publisher at the moment for a game?
We are um in conversations with publishers. We are in conversations with um investors. We're um yeah, we're not settled yet on what

we want to do next because we want to pick the best partner for the game and we're lucky that we're a few doors have opened for us and so we just want to be very um very considerate in in our next move. So I'm sorry that I can't answer [laughter] that question.
If the answer is the answer is yes, you are open to it, but you're not it could go anywhere. It could it could go it could go in a number of ways and trust me I'm one of the people that want to answer the question as soon as possible. Um my last question obviously you have this amazing the game how how exciting and that must be for you but it's great but what happens now you you're going to disappear into the uh into the shadows and tinker.
That's exactly what we would do. We're going to deep diving and not reemerge for a while because we need to finish with extra care what we are doing and then there will be a moment in time

where we will rest our face and speak again about the what we are being something even more meaningful. I'm looking forward to Madden Badger tomorrow. You know that. Um, good luck with it and um, yeah, thank you for your time.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Chris. Thanks a lot.
That's it for today's episode of the Game Business Show. Do obviously stay tuned for more news, analysis, and interviews over the days and weeks to come. I've been out in LA. I've done quite a few interviews, and you'll be seeing many of them over the days to come, not just before Christmas, but also after Christmas as well. So, do make sure to sign up at thegamebusiness.com so you don't miss a thing. Until next time, thank you for tuning in.