June's Journey: A party to die for - The power of community-driven content in gaming!

so um we had uh more than 500 videos sent to us and some of the talents included um a Jun shoury tattoo we had songs Dance acting costume sewing baking you name it people people submitted it and uh some of the stuff was just so cool and of course that's that's just a really great way to win a free trip to the UK is a tattoo [Music] this is a no gaming show where we talk about games and their revenue in great detail powered by our ad monetization game design and user acquisition Triple Threat expertise welcome to the two and a half Gamers the unfiltered truth served with a side of giggles

let's not forget this is a 400 a.m. conference discussion Vibe so let's not take it too seriously tune in now and stay two and a half steps ahead of the gaming industry hello hello everyone uh this two and a half Gamers uh my name is mat lerich and I'm your host for today and today is uh again a very special episode because we have two special guests Ed from media buies in April from vuga guys welcome to the podcast can you tell us a little bit about yourself and then I'm going to introduce the the topic for today uh let's start with April let's start with you tell us who are you and what's the the small company based in Berlin that you're working for hi I'm and I'm the lead Community manager for wuga we're located in Berlin um we just celebrated our 15th year and we are the makers of June's Journey the

number one hidden object game in the world so we have a lot to be proud of nice Ed how about yourself sure I'm Ed I am the founder of Media bodies it's a influencer marketing agency that I set up 12 years ago uh we specialized in data user acquisition for mobile games predominantly uh with influencers across YouTube podcasts but then also we do some great creative campaigns with the likes of uh April and so um yeah thanks for having us on Amazing yeah so so we're going to talk about uh a party to die for so uh it's a five episodes of real life murder mystery backed by influencers so can you tell us a little bit more about like what is this because it sounds like a lot of fun um uh a party to die for is the name

of a video series we created to celebrate uh the sixth anniversary of June's Journey um although we did have influencers supporting uh we wanted to make our players the stars and the influencers we saw this as an opportunity to thank our players for the six years of passionate community and dedication that they've um provided us and we wanted to spotlight uh some of them some of our biggest fans and we wanted to share that with everyone as a gift as a as a way to say you know we um we uh love all that you bring to the table and how in influential you are in the game and this mystery that you get to solve with us is a a thank you for that as I just put pull it out on the on YouTube just to so we have some visuals as well

so because it's it's amazing I I was really hooked uh when we we started discussing this it's really really cool so can you also tell us a little bit more from from your end like how how did this this like came together from your end but from from well firstly it was you April and the and the wers um who who came up with the the whole concept and and this amazing idea of bringing June's journey to life and and creating a situation that you know that the the 12 contestants that were selected could enjoy but then also something that would be enjoyed by the whole Global Community we were sort of board on board um for a couple of different reasons yeah one we worked with wuga for a long time specifically on J's journey and the team over here just you know genuinely play the game a lot and have sort of massive Advocates and know the game you know that was you know I think a part of why

we had the the opportunity to work with these guys and we were um to work alongside their production team then also sort of research and Logistics and so you know it's it's it's uh it's a big task to organize 12 people from around the world their Partners all the various visas the location there's there's so many little details that go into it um some that we you can sort of foresee and quite a few others that you know uh become app parent you know a little bit deeper into the into the journey but you know overall we we love the experience and it was it was great to do with these guys well devil is in the details can you share a little bit more about the details I mean how many people worked on this because this yeah it's it's not a small actually as you said so internally we had um just a small team of people working on it we had a creative director um I was managing the social media side of things and then we had a writer um as well well as um you know uh people that

would um uh support and assist uh in align with CRM and other uh departments so uh it was um a big project and a relatively small team and a relatively tight timeline for us but um because we were all very passionate about the idea uh we really really uh pulled together and um of course with the support of media bodies uh could make it happen but we knew that this was more than we could do internally which most of our past productions are all done internally but this this was too too big so we uh pulled in media bodies and they really stepped in helping us manage the logistics and and um production um especially because we're located in Berlin and we wanted to film in the UK and that sets up already a few um problems for us to uh do you know sourcing local people to hold cameras and and microphones and so

for yeah absolutely and then you and then from our side we had sort of a a team of researchers like step by step there's various sort of phases that that came through the project you know initially you know it's it's such a sort of grand idea and if you look here even on the video that's on screen you can see aesthetically if you've played jun's Journey you know the beautiful sort of you know imagery that's used throughout and that's something that you know obviously is is sort of um players immediately associate is is the is the Aesthetics of the 1920s to so even just trying to you know come up with a decision on do we find a property then we which we then dress and then have you know someone externally build sort relevant props and that sort of stuff or do we try and find you know a huge estate that's going to allow you know 40 people in it with you know over a million pounds worth of camera equipment to use without damaging these beautiful pieces of artwork sort of

dotted around this Grand estate you know that there no answer was you know without you know it its complexities so in we opted and and to to go for a place called Bron Hall which is sort of reference throughout to be honest is sort of Taylor Made It was so um beautiful inside all these sort of grand old pictures and these you know beautiful sort of statue marble statues and had all these different rooms which lent itself to the sort of like cludo you know was it in in the kitchen was it in the Library all these really cool you different spaces and then from outside so that was just the research piece and then there was the the production element yeah and we have an amazing production their side you with the guy over there called deolo in particular who sort of really stepped up and and guided and made sure everything was delivered as as as as was sort of desired by April and the and the core team and Zach the writer so total number of people depending how you know depending at what phase but you know it's got to be sort of over sort of 30

people you know probably in total by the time you take the wers you know then you take the various cameramen editors and you take the fulltime B's team so big big production for sure yeah we talk about the phases so I guess canny Walkers through the phases as well and I get the first initial phase the first even pref phase like where do this like idea coming from like bringing everybody or the players into like UK why UK okay uh we started with um internally we have a um a belief in our brand uh we really focus on storytelling throughout each aspect of our marketing and in-game we we think that this is the thing that defines wuga um games as unique and special so throughout everything we do we always want to tell a good story and from that we also wanted to uh start in incorporating our game into aspects of

players General lives so we want to get it's not just on the phone it's you know maybe a part of your day maybe it's where you have friends maybe it's where you know people this takes place online but also we want to explore taking this to real life um so something that we do is like we support events and parties um and through this we can sort of bring people to life and and have them meet and become friends in real life so taking from this initiative and this belief in our in our brand we thought that it would be a great way to give back is to take some of our biggest fans and bring them together so that they can really truly get to know each other and then share them as well with everyone on social media so um cons uh combining that with our love of Storytelling it be it was a pretty uh easy uh decision that we wanted to do a liveaction murder mystery which is sort of how we how we

pictured this with our players uh being the detectives because that's another things that we really really know our players we know what they like and they like to solve a good mystery so we wanted to give them that nice anything more about the the actual phases after or another question were you also involved in the in the the like ideation process oh so from my side a April was the source of the idea and and and really the the architect of the whole thing so you know that that is credit to her and the Ruger guys we bought in a couple of sort of third party people there's a a lovely um lady called Liz that you know who had a very specific skill set of how to build um you know puzzles that you know that were referenced by the writers and so in terms of you know elements that sort of supported their Vision that's sort of where we sort of stepped it in and and helped out and and finding those sort of

specific skill sets and um and how to uh take take what was you know a piece of written uh you know idea and also make it you know five episodes it's quite long to sort of keep people engaged and watch that episode genuinely I you know I really liked it just was a standalone piece and and obviously hundreds of thousands of others did and so having that uh you know storyline also visually engaging from episode to episode with these great Cliffhangers is um is uh you know another huge task in which you know April and then Zach you know very talented writer from their side you know had a big piece big handed yeah in April then uh the question back to you involving players as well in the ideation phase are talking to them no but uh this is not the first time we've met with our players um and brought them to meet with us and sort of um play games with them I

guess is is our idea so although we did not we're not able to ex expose any of the mystery or any of the idea beforehand um we did sort of have some past experience and just listening to our players online and knowing them really well really guided us but um we in order to find our 12 biggest players to invite to Bron Hall we had to um have a contest uh where we asked them to film a video of them doing their hidden talent is what we called it for our hidden so um we had uh more than 500 videos sent to us and some of the talents included um a June shney tattoo we had songs Dance acting costume sewing baking you name it people people submitted it and uh some of the stuff was just so cool and of course that's that's just a really great way to win a

free trip to the UK is to tattoo yourself with J's Journey so um we uh absolutely uh were able to pick out people that we felt like really knew the game that were really really good on camera and that were really ready to dive into the mystery and that was that was sort of our assurance that we we could um make this mystery happen yeah nice so Ed again the phases tell tell tell us a little bit more about the phases you mentioned in the previous let yeah leave that to that and then April you can you can comment afterwards as well so terms of the phases I think there was um we popped over to to uh see the guys over in their Berlin offices uh you know a few of us flew out there which is you know important throughout the beginning I think the the first phase was uh you know what what you April's sort of this talk through there choosing the contestants and and they had we saw the videos and which was great also side so we saw sort of the profile of the people

that were going to be chosen really broad spectrum of of sort of talents available then it was going into what type of content they want to produce you know was it something cinematic reality TV was it you know what was that sort of um you know feeling that they wanted to give to those end users those end viewers and we opted for uh a more sort of reality TV kind of feel to it which you know I think worked really well um and then yeah there's phases that you know I think you definitely ask April on because we didn't have any idea but which is the you know I don't know how long all the acting took you know for example because uh which I'm sure um yeah that must have been a big phase and then we were talking about the specific cameras so we had a production through our side and then working alongside the the internal people at woger to decide know how many cameramen you know you know what sort of setup that we needed you know on the wcky of the building huge estate we need have cables running through all of these rooms that had you

know millions of pounds worth of um you know art everywhere that we couldn't obviously damage you know obviously had insurance but that's not the point and so there was um going in there CA chaos I think that would be uh not not very well received but so I think from our stage you know the phes were you know contestants the acting side which we we didn't we didn't know what standard it would be but obviously you can see it's amazing from from the videos the production you what the right tone and stylistically the setup and and you know the crew size and all the logistics around you know the internet having to you know work with you know bringing in um you know the the sort of um starlink the Elon Musk saying you have that sort of set up on on site there was there was lot and then costumes we we organized the costumes and that was a just organizing 12 people's costumes and multiple changes you that it's hot when you're filming there's lots of light in the room so many considerations but in

terms of in Terms phes selection of the contents the acting the production side and then all the sort of Minor Details in between but important yeah April from your end it was most probably a little bit different stages right uh yeah Ed Ed did bring up a lot of um the stages for us uh we started in April with um we always uh celebrate our iary with a big Community event and in the past we've done video series and in the past we've done contests and so forth so this was sort of in our wheelhouse and we knew that October 5th was our hard deadline that way so then um in April we um we did the pitch and um had to line up uh all the support and um budget that we needed and then from there we started to reach out to different agencies and obviously we chose as well with Ed as they knew our

brand they know our players and they were absolutely on hand to help make this crazy idea happen um I think for us internally one of the biggest questions was uh where are we going to do this and we did throw out uh you know potentially renting places here in Germany which would have been easier for us our France um or um other Italy uh but we land on the UK because the obviously the state manners are just such a cozy mystery Vibe it's very accuracy and all that so we we um but even still if we did not find the right place we it would not have been as As Nice of experience for our players are uh so easy for us to tell a story in there um but we got once we uh found uh bralon Hall we knew that we could actually pull this off it was wasn't until then we we weren't 100% sure but then we had to write the story which was for us a huge chunk of uh the

time uh Zach our writer really um did something I think I've never seen it done before um because um our actors were um they didn't have lines it was entirely improvised our players could ask anything they wanted so each person had a a pretty complete backstory they had secret motivations they had you know of course in a mystery they had things they didn't want to reveal but had to reveal in in some way um and then they all had relationships with each other that affected if someone was in the room with them so this whole Matrix of um story also had to be written out in the puzzles that the players would solve so the mystery would play out in both an interview with the characters are in like a puzzle they had to solve like how do I get into this box like where is this character going like uh these

little little things and that's where Ed and um uh Liz cable were such a huge help like we had a few puzzles that were just in a book you had to read the book and figure out an anagram or something like that or some were just customade uh giant beautiful puzzle pieces that the players had to break into and some of them were um so beautiful and impressive that was that was one of the coolest Parts but that had to align with the story so it was a lot of back and forth a lot of you know like limitations of what kind of puzzles we could include like we're in the 1920s so we can't have you know a digital clock or so everything had to be a little old school you know everything was keys and so forth so um and then it had to make sense we couldn't just throw a puzzle in there without having a story so it is very much like in our game where um we have puzzles um after each chapter and

in that puzzle you know the player has to they're all different you have to do a small task you have to figure out how to do it and then um you can move on but uh so it was kind of like that where everything had to line up um so that was that was um for us that was the big Triumph and the big feat to have all of these different storylines and um because that was the other thing with 12 players you have it's a it's a lot to manage and keep them engaged so we wanted to break them up which means that we needed three Paths of the story and we needed those stories to interconnect at the end but we didn't want it so that the players could reveal too much in the beginning and full the whole thing so we had to keep things pretty tight in the story and hidden away until because they were be talking they were talking constantly they were sharing throughout all of the dirty details everything they uncovered they were like look at so we had to make sure that that no one

could figure it out until the last minute and then it was only after they all had all the information at the very end and shared it that they could they could solve the mystery that that was that was probably in my mind the biggest chunk of our time was spent trying to figure that out yeah so you said started a in April and October was the um the anniversary we filmed in September and then we had one day of editing yeah so seven months okay and uh and how long did it take to actually film the whole thing like how long have been in the in the dimension we were only filming for two days oh so we uh we knew that we didn't want our players to get too stressed out we wanted to you know Give Them Enough downtime everyone can relax they're on vacation you know um so we sort of like scheduled out um a pretty elaborate

intensive schedule of um of what scene would have be happening and what room and then with the three uh concurrent story lines interweaving so you know at at like 1:30 I had to bring my team into the green room then that team should have already left so there was no you know conflicting storylines happening um so this was also a Monumental feat of um production that its team really helped us out on uh and uh so this we would film I think the the plan was we didn't want to wear them out so we tried to keep the filming as short as possible with a lot of break between so we had the we brought them into Bron Hall to meet um Sir Charles are uh the Lord of The Manor on uh Tuesday and then like Wednesday we had the mystery solved so they're very good detectives they solved it pretty fast nice okay and uh uh when did you film this in

summer I guess because the weather was quite nice yeah it was September okay nice in September so you okay you did all everything in September and then like the one leave so much room for like post production I mean it's quite tight quite tight yeah that's some one reason we were um happy to have our editor Alex uh on set but particularly with something like this we did not have we had an outline of what we needed to achieve in each scene but we did not know what the players were going to say or do and sometimes they they did the opposite of what we thought they were gonna do so um you know we just could not anticipate 100% what was going to happen we knew what we had what we needed to tell the story but they gave us so much more like they were so fun and engaged and I I mean I could we could have had like you know hundreds of shows with all of their funny comments

and and crazy um conclusions and they really got into it so it was really helpful to have him on set watching it all go down to be like marking down yeah I need this I need this and and his like sort of like intuitive way of knowing what he wanted to present uh particularly when it comes to this sort of like reality show filming it's a little um challenging uh to to tell a story just based on the comments and everything so he was a big help with that all right yeah it's it's pretty pretty amazing uh also you're talking about the whole like um anniversary kind of uh activity here like what were the objectives for for you guys besides like bringing the players in and celebrate the anniversary um well we mostly wanted to test the reaches of our ability on social social media like uh you know how

can we um what's you know like what kind of reach and engagement can we go for when we have sort of high production value um Community Driven content uh we really feel like this is um uh you know not just it's not just an ad it's it's a piece of something that people would naturally want to get into if they were into Mysteries and 1920s and everything like that so we were really pushing the boundaries because we believe that this could be the future of marketing is to do content-driven um stuff that that would inspire people to play your game in a less pushy or like advertising kind of way okay so and this is on YouTube so you said social media or you shared this across how many and which networks uh we our main channel is Facebook um so we obviously yeah we have we posted on

Facebook Instagram and YouTube okay nice any any short form content for Tik Tok um no we have not found a lot of success on Tik Tok uh you know our player base is is slightly out of the way and I know that Tik Tok is skewing older um but we just have not found um our audiences there at this time yeah so we do do Instagram uh reels and YouTube shorts and we have some success there with our current audience um so like for this we would post one episode every other day in between we would do a reel that was either a preview of what's coming or um a look back at the episode to remind them um and on top of that like each episode concluded with um a question uh that we would POS in the post itself so you know uh players could participate with each Post in order to win a prize or share their guesses um

and the guesses were really all over the place so it was really fun time there was so much engagement and um a and the reach was really uh quite is more than we estimated I think it's a testament to how good uh you know storytelling can go over on social media and you know even the longer uh episodes that we had we were really happy with with how people engaged with them and really quite pleased with the reach that we got yeah if you so this is what we we're looking at like 25 minutes long episode but the others are like 7 11 15 17 minutes long have you found like any differences in terms of the if the episode is longer then you think that the engagement is lower or the other way around yeah I think the longer episodes do um suffer a bit and it was not Our intention to have it be that long but you know with time constraints it's

quite difficult to write a mystery yeah and in just a few minutes because you have to have red herrings you have to have a number of characters otherwise you solve the mystery immediately so the nature of it is is just going to be a bit longer also um you know because we had an outline of what we wanted to achieve in each video but not the actual footage until we were editing you know some of the some of the videos were longer than what we wanted but I think um uh it so the third video was was pretty long it's also my favorite though because I think it's got I don't I wanted more and I think that people that were into it they also wanted more um so I you know you might have lost some of the more casual viewers but uh for those that were interested they were all in nice um yeah you you mentioned this uh engagement m in views and I see like

first episodes and even this one is like 1,00,000 and more views is that all organic or is it also like UA uh we did spend um a small amount uh I I mean I I can't give exact numbers but it's okay don't worry good it's not that much okay uh I'll start um we did spend a small amount of money to pay promote we targeted though mostly our current and engaged players um that are linked to the app and so the Impressions that we saw and the reach that we saw greatly exceeded that and we even saw um a large number of players being re-engaged through this so maybe the algorithm picked up you know former players and stuff like this but we um were able to reach people that we were not targeting and it ended up pretty well because uh re-engagement is always a bit of a mystery sometimes and we felt

like this sort of approach really worked well for that we also had things installed in the video series to drive people to the game so um it's a little bit different than we had um that people saw the video and they just wanted to play yeah but in the videos themselves they we had QR codes uh like just yeah it was just in the in the frame nice yeah and then they provided little gifts for Eagle eyed players so the idea was they were sort of hidden in there and only if you're a good detective will you spot them um so that people really enjoyed that and they once word got out they were definitely um coming through the videos for Clues and QR codes nice yeah I mean I can imagine I can even imagine using these videos in um in Google ads campaigns because from what I saw in terms of the UA long long form videos work quite well and this is definitely something your audience likes

because I saw a lot of positive comments in the comment section so what was the the overall feedback um more I think was the overall feedback they want more of this they um and I mean I'd love to be able to give it to them and in fact we are going to try to do something similar uh more of our seventh anniversary is starting pretty soon so we hope to provide them with more Mysteries to solve and more player engagement um online and with Shady characters and um you know puzzles and so forth so uh yeah we we also want more um and we'll see if we can make it happen again nice okay I mean all like the the comments in the in the YouTube sections are everybody loved it basically everybody loved it uh in terms of the seventh anniversary any

drama can you tease anything or like uh players can can look forward um yeah we um I I don't I don't know how to do without spoiling okay okay okay okay I can say this um so um so in the 6th anniversary all of the actors that you see in the video series are woas so they all work on the game that the players that were there loved and they also happen to be amazing actors as well because they are phenomenal ni so um we just today started having internal auditions again for more ruga actors so hopefully you might see some familiar faces or brand new faces but um it will still be everyone you see in the in the video series will be um um creator of June's Journey nice I mean this great I mean I

guess I'm trying still like think I wrap my hand around uh the measurement and uh and and everything but this is way different from any UA channels you you are running I mean not way different but I know I work with uh with your team on the on the UA side and like you run like all like TVs and and podcasts and then Direct like traditional UA and this is definitely not traditional UA so it's great to see these things happen yeah I I hope to be able to do this again because uh for me uh you know we we just want to share uh with our players this unbelievable experience and it funny when we called some of them to let them know they won they kind of didn't believe it like it seemed too good to be true some of them said they didn't believe it till they had the tickets in their hands you know we yeah

we had players coming from Indonesia and Australia and South Africa and like all over and um the the one thing that really made this magic for me was to see them getting together and like it doesn't matter who they are where they're from like we're we all love a good mystery and um just really diving in um as soon as they started like they walked in and we had this first scene where we introduced everybody yeah and then we had to walk into a room with them and there was the whole cast there there was Sir Charles and his wife and like the the Butlers and everybody was in this beautiful room and I just I knew what was going to happen and I got chilled like I just could not believe how cool this was and like to see their faces they all I mean it took a minute but then they they definitely dived in because it's sort of unreal this whole experience but uh from each of them I mean we're we're all still in a chat

together like we're all still like supporting each other and they're all still playing the game and I think it's just been a really really wonderful way to say thank you and then also to share their enthusiasm with everyone else and to let everyone else admire their you know detective skills was really really beneficial nice it's are you doing these um like um type of activities often or was this like one like first or one time thing for you for you guys in in media bodies we've got a we've got a creative team uh you know media bodies that work across gaming so we the first ever sort of big gaming thing that we did uh like a third party location we launched Doom the game going back about 10 years we had a warehouse in Hackney and there was like a 100 computers set up there was like 50 influencers footballers turned up so I think this one was the most complex for sure and uh and uh you know

the the 12 different nationalities you know the the the the extent of like a complex storyline having to make that you know come across in a way that was as entertaining you as it as it you as it turned out which is amazing you really great series and so what what we're big Advocates of of you know we're a very performance-led business you know overall but you know you know but it does you know get slept on as they say you know that the power of community content as a performance uh you know uh Initiative for mobile gaming companies because ultimately you know you the users and especially those you know high value users that love the game the most they want to sort of get deeper in you know into a game's law a game like June's Journey which has you know such fantastic storytelling and as its core you they want to sort of get deeper and more and more emotionally involved and so the more you can give them to support that the more you know ltvs retention those sort of metrics that are less hard

to sort of quantify on a global scale when the game is as big as June's Journey but ultimately you know that that's going to have an impact on on you know you advocacy across especially when you've got you know millions of views across these different platforms so yeah we see you know from us as an agency this is like a a crucial part that all mobile gaming companies should be aspiring to this being sort of right at the very very top in terms of you know quality and and and sort of you know and finished product and and ideation but it can be done you know with some kinds of ours you budgets where it's just you know we started working on ideas with weer on you know a chocolate here making a a chocolate cake of of um of June and we've done all these other smaller sort of community content pieces and that's typically you know what we do quite a lot with with various clients but these sort of grander ideas um you know are uh are amazing if if if um if the client comes on board but you know really we've never you not the same on the call APR

you we've never seen something like this in in in Mobile gaming ever or you I can't think of another uh industry and that's why you know this this campaign you know got um you know recognition of you know major global awards as well yeah because I just wanted to add also I mean it's not very easy to do these things when you're a small company right so you need to have I that's I mean you don't need to say anything about budgets but I think it wasn't really cheap production so if you are thinking about small to midsize company it can be quite challenging to to do these things but then as you said that um I guess it can go and you can do a little bit smaller things here and there just to engage the engage the community now any any yeah he bro I was just going to comment I um I agree that this this was a big project and a big budget and all that stuff but we have do a lot of

things that cost almost nothing like I think good ideas are good ideas we were so lucky to be able to have 12 players but in the past we brought over five players you know just smaller things that that are easier to manage but um I I think a good idea doesn't necessarily need the budget I I hope that it can you can always sort of get your idea out there without having to um be too limited yeah I think that's a very nice way how how we can how we can finish uh any any last comments towards uh players game developers or anyone or listeners April um I just uh I'm I'm so grateful for uh my uh chance here at wuga to do something that I felt was genuinely um not only a creative and fun

project but something that really impacted people something that you know really gave back and really showed that we cared and we were in touch and we knew what they wanted and we wanted to give that to them so I'm I'm really grateful for the opportunity to do it and yeah can't wait to do it again nice Ed anything on your end no likewise as you know a out we're very grateful for the vision that those guys had and to be brought on board with it I think it's sort of set set the Benchmark for the industry we had a a lot of um you know I think a lot of people are aware of of it you know especially in in the mobile gaming space I think every company s look to it as wow sort of you know look what these guys have done and to be sort of associated with that is is obviously great for us as as a companies so we're always going to be eternally grateful for the trust they gave us and um I think you know power more power to sort of you know you know the the community content side because you know April said it doesn't have to be you know large lens you know a good idea is a good idea

and April and she has you know a couple of you Rodrigo and Dario a couple colleagues of hers that you know if you go on their YouTube channel you'll see them uh you know appear in content that's you know love for Their audience as well so it's just having that real nice mix and and understanding that you know your your your players do love that you know the game but also occasionally breaking that fourth wall and or or or creating something for them is you know so well received so you I think you that that will be my final comment nice thank you very much for for coming Guys April thanks thanks Ed and also the listeners thank you very much for for listening as well pleas if you have any comments please uh share them on the YouTube or in our slack Channel and see you next time thank you very much cheers [Music]

[Music] [Applause] [Music]