How the Future Looks Like for Grand Games

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What does made in Turkey mean for Grand Games?
As you know, I'm Turkish and I'm taking a lot of pride in doing something that I love within my own country and I don't have to leave overseas in order to make that happen. I think it's it's an amazing feat and we all feel that as any part of Grand. So, I think we take joy in that. And coming back to your question, made in Turkey means for us and also most of the studios would agree is the highest quality. I think we produce really polished, really quality games and we take pride in that as a country as well.
Back in the days, not so far along, I'm from Helsinki, we used to be the the capital of mobile gaming. Still some good companies, but um what meant to me that that it was made in Finland was that we as a small country were able to produce game for global entertainment and that felt like

the companies that paved the road felt that like it's possible. Even though I'm here, far away from the Hollywoods of the world, from the New Yorks and the Londons, you're still able to do something that is equally or even higher of the quality because somebody paved the road.
I think for us it was Peak.
Yeah, it was Peak. Peak showed Peak Peak showed the way Gram pushed it and then Peak showed what's possible and Dream is like five x of whatever Peak achieved, which was already the peak. Exactly.
I think before Sidar and Peak Games, many successful Turkish startups were focusing on internal domestic markets. What Sidar and Peak showed us is that you can do amazing things here and publish it overseas and you'll have amazing benefits from that.
Yeah. Yeah, they've they've really set the bar so high that that you don't have to leave, you don't have to even think about outside markets. You can go as far as you can inside Istanbul.
And 10 years ago, I think his challenge was he had to create the talent. He had to create the Unity developers, he had to create 2D artists, he had to create

the product managers that is focusing on feeling side. I think what he did was amazing and he paved the road for us. He built the ecosystem, yes.
The other Turk of the of the Turkish ecosystem. Um what makes what makes Turkish developer then different than anybody else? Have you hired anybody else than a Turkish developer?
We didn't. We didn't, yeah.
You didn't?
Yeah. Of course since we are operating as really small teams and we take pride in impact and also ownership, any non-native speaker is like a problem for our culture. So we try to since every role doesn't speak English, it's a bit hard for us to hire from overseas, but it's not a big problem because Turkey has the best talent in today's world. I understand why gaming companies like I'm not going to name drop them, but have other offices outside of Turkey. It has of course some advantages, marketing marketing and also branding. I think these aspects are known much better overseas than it is compared to us. I think we have the best talent in terms of product and development side. What

separates us from let's say western or other developers is I think the ambition level is really high. The will to produce something that is really high quality, that is user-oriented is huge compared to any other gaming company overseas and what sets us apart I think passion and thanks to Sidar's talent-wise, we are doing amazingly well.
And what's really powerful in this ecosystem is that the government is supporting it fully and actually evolving the support. Can you talk a little bit about the other subsidies that the government gives to Turkish developers?
I think in the early days, there are a lot of support mechanisms when you are starting your own business in Turkey and these support mechanisms like actually increase the runway of any given company. Increasing runway every time means increasing the chances of success, so it's good to feel the support of Turkish government when you're starting the business.
And it's it's not only like support in terms of somebody clapping your back and

saying good good job and and keep the flag high. It's
Financial support.
Financial support.
It's financial support that helps you to take bets and shots on goal, which is very unique for these type of subsidies is that they want you to give it a try. They de-risk your try, so you can have more tries. They give 50% off from different types of tools and and app store payments just to increase your runway so that you find your once you find your success, the subsidies kind of end. It's only to accelerate you till the till the level and make sure you take the bet.
Exactly, yeah. And most of the most of the beneficial ones are the ones that you have listed. Like 50% off the marketing costs, etc.
If people want to read them to details, deconstructoroffun.com, I've wrote them already, so you can find what they have. But but but we don't have to go through line by line, but they are they are a benchmark for any country on supporting gaming, but also for other ones. It's clearly they are developed by listening to founders and

entrepreneurs and asking them what would be the right type of a system rather than trying to create some kind of convoluted or using consultants to create some kind of a convoluted system for subsidies.
I think that's that's the key part, yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about a little bit about your role models and where are you looking to take Gram Games because you're building Gram Games two and a half years, magnificent growth. What is the type of company you look as a reference or a benchmark? It doesn't have to be in gaming, but what's your model?
I think resilience-wise Nvidia is a role model for us because I'm not sure if you heard any any of the speeches of Jensen, but he talks a a lot about pain and suffering and also resilience that is building character for the company. And we take pride in that as well. So, we also see pain and resilience, pain and suffering as something good rather than just the bad stuff. I think that's a really good example for us. Dream sets the bar in terms of product quality. We are trying to learn from that in terms of that

aspect as well. And I think the last year I would say, which is the foundation of our culture, Supercell. Supercell's ownership and also providing it like multiple studios, multiple games, these are really amazing examples for us.
Resilience and tolerance of pain in terms of Jensen's uh Nvidia, the long game. Then you mentioned Dream in terms of focus on detail, on product quality, and Supercell in the importance and the foundational work of having a strong culture. That's a good trio. That's a very powerful trio. Um is there a founder inside or outside gaming that has changed the way you think about building a company?
Going back to my foundation, like foundation of grants, yeah, Nvidia CEO really changed how how I look into the things because for me personally, it was a bit rough time. I was going through a divorce. I

was trying to raise money living in hotel rooms. I I was just trying to make sure that companies run on good hands. I was trying to uh make the best decision in terms of product. I was a product owner of Magic Sword back then.
So, you're product owner that is divorcing and trying to get funding all at the same time while not having a home homeless at the same time.
Exactly.
Sounds fun.
Really fun.
Yeah.
Really fun. I call that chapter like pain and suffering and yeah, yeah. I learned a lot from Jensen back then because I think usually we treat pain and suffering as something bad. We don't see the outcome or the person we become at the end of the day. And his speeches and also vision enabled me to see the good side in living all through that. And made me where I am today, so.
So, obstacle is the way.
Yeah, unfortunately it is.
So, that's the belief that you've adopted. That obstacle is a good thing because it molds you to the other type of person and the type of company you

need to have. Is there a belief that you've rejected?
From other founders.
Yeah. Something that you maybe had and then you had to reject it.
For me, I think personally I heard that in order to be successful, you need to be a villain. Villain.
Villain?
A bad guy. You need to put pressure on every employee. You need to be really tough. I don't think it makes sense in today's world. I don't think it is something that can be done long term. Of course, I'm not name dropping any anybody, but I've heard that couple of times from really successful people as well. There is a chance that you can be successful and of course, everybody has their own path, but that is something that I don't believe in. In order to be successful, I think you need to be understanding your employees. I think you need to show empathy. I think you have to understand that like yourself, they can be going through something. And also being a support mechanism rather than just being the one that's shouting at them should be the correct choice. That's the thing that I'm
So, be just.
Be just. I'm not saying avoid conflict.

I think you have to have conflict, but you don't have to be a about it.
I think your own suffering has shaped your way of thinking that there might be something going on and that that creates that empathy. Again, obstacle is the way. You learn from your own
Yeah. The capacity for empathy just skyrockets. Yeah, you're right.
So, you're now at the again, 500 million run rate. Goal is of course to increase that. If the growth flattens, what's most likely the reason?
To be honest, it didn't flatten for like 2 years and I'm hoping it doesn't. If it happens, I think it's lack of focus.
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It always is for us. If it happens, I think the first to blame from my end would be like Okay, what should we focusing on and what are we focusing on now? I think we need to have some adjustments in order to do that. It can be like a a cap on our games. If that's the case, we can find new games. Like focus is the most important thing and if you feel that the main thing that would put you out of trajectory is your own internal, which I love. It's

not what happens outside. It's like it's internally. So, if you lose the focus How would you lose the focus? What would be like when you suddenly start talking about let's make a TV show and and a merchandising line and maybe invest into AI tool development? That Is that like what you see as as focusing away?
Exactly. Exactly. Our job is to make games and our job is to make games that the people love and also we love. And if we try to divert from that or try to find some new new stuff to work on, I think that could cause it. We have Magic Sword, we have Card Match, we have Block Buster successful titles. These titles require attention. And if you were to let's say go into Okay, even though we have these, let's make some three new games from these studios. I think that's like a suicide for us. So, I think we need to have that focus of Okay, let's grow these games as well and just focus on games.

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