A fireside chat with games industry legends Peter Vesterbacka and David Helgason

[Music] [Music] I'm I'm super super super excited about this this is I've been looking forward to this to this vote for ages we're kicking off our second mini track now it's kind of global put all there's a fire yeah cheers the fireplace we're kicking off a second me track which is focused on global publishing opportunities but but the first star of that is kind of real superstar session with two two genuine games industry legends and me so that's good so I've been fortunate so both on foot for many years and anyone who's ever used unity or flung an angry bird in anger or been to slash or various things will should need no introduction but and we do quit one anyway so on my left we have the Mighty Eagle himself no longer allowed

to wear this shirt but he still got red hoodie that's good whose CV inclu includes being a senior VP at HP co-founder MobileMonday founding slush and helping Rovio Angry Birds become the most iconic mobile game of the planet which I think Rovio announced they had four downloads just of the wink yeah you know a billion there you a saying this would be a billion downloads every was laughing so um and obviously and now you're the Calico founder or involved in in in light Nia and investor in various projects from from Chinese investment in Finland to tunnels to Estonia I understand so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna yeah just tell us what you're up to your now get introduced a whilst you actually missed yeah so basically I left the day-to-day operations Ravi oh boy a year and a half ago so that was come up once we had our first movie out made that number one in 52 countries so China us Russia a planet and then I thought that it's like a good time to start

focusing on something bigger and then I was like okay so what could be bigger I said okay there's this little thing called education so we happen to be really well known for that in in Finland so we probably have the best comic educational system in the planet and I think that's also actually why we have fantastic games companies because our educational system doesn't like kill initiative doesn't kill creativity so we end up with like crazy finish people making crazy games so I think education is super important and hasta la boca yeah but you know like as a business and actually education is the second biggest business on the planet after food six point three trillion so in you know talking to my Chinese friends and Asian friends they have a school system where you spend all your wake hours go into school you know so there's like school and school and like no life and then I look at my own kids they go to school like nine or ten in the morning they get home one or two and then after that they go out and play you know and and you know then they have like fifteen minutes of homework or so and they actually come back end up great and it'll make you know great games and

greats you know like new products in the future so I thought okay we can reduce the size of the educational market to have so go from six point three trillion to three trillion and then over the next ten years together with some of the companies that I've started or like just working together with we're gonna capture 10% because we're like modest finish people so that you know it's only three hundred billion a year so that's one of the big things and then I'm also building a tunnel but yeah let's see it's also bigger several so that's good yeah we couldn't go through toys TV we hear well likewise on my right I have David helgesen who's founder and for 12 years CEO of unity got bit bored of that I've been CEO for 12 years I'm still there well what's the secret so I'll see you can see the famous development engine has done more to their than any I'd be to democratize game making and enable cross-platform development and you have you guys UT offices all over the place now San Cisco Canada China Colombia Denmark Finland dinky Helsinki of course and the UK as well as well as

that though yeah you also serve on the board of like a lot of companies I was doing some research and some within as an investor an advisor some within games and some outside games I know you involved in quiz up or flail they've been sold off well you work was involved yes and raw theory I know you can be civil with that and and Lockwood there's a lot of and you do that on your own and all safety the Nordic makers group right so is anything else you're doing right now you can talk about that I haven't mentioned no I mean there's just you know since I you know stop being CEO of units you have a lot of time on my hands and so I'm sort of just kind of traveling the world meeting interesting people and giving them advice or helping them out with money and so on it's kind of a love affair with the entrepreneurial ecosystem which is a lot of fun creepy one so before we kind of look ahead I just want to talk a little bit about the sort of tipping points in the industry so far and it's something I've

spoken to you about in the past and and we've obviously you know we have launched into the mobile space and the arrival of mobile games is a massive point in the games industry generally we're allowed to talk not just about my pub and go beyond that so what else in your content your unities you see is they kind of look the major things that have made a big difference the trends it made a big difference I mean what's what's really wonderful about the game industry is that it changes really really fast yeah so I mean that you know that's that's interesting it's fun but it's also kind of creates opportunities all the time right so however you know nothing is as big and probably nothing well maybe nothing will ever be quite as big as as the revolution of mobile yeah just because you went you know from from sort of the biggest marketplaces in the world were like a few hundred million people and now you have something that's like half the world's population and we don't have another kind of growth like that ahead of us I mean you could have other big kind of things having like AR will be big and exactly how we don't know but but Mobile has been insane you

know we're excited about VR we're excited about AR VR has frustrated us at some level you know AR is tickling us but a lot of other good things happening just you know the opening up sort of partially of China has been really great a lot of opportunities there as well come on so many things well come on come on so that's our way so I mean I think that the first was just and is anything else what has been a mole was a massive 2.4 games industry it's helped it grow to this hundred billion dollar business it so anything else that's happened in the last couple of years you think all that decade that was the most significant significant that we can look back to before we look forward yeah I think actually it's it's very good to to look back at gone like whole mobile actually happened because it didn't happen come up overnight and and if you finish you know that yeah I thought was not the first football and I and yeah I mean they had like something to it but even even before like that red stuff going on but but I think what is very interesting that now

of course you know mobile is just like it's you know water or like the air we breathe and all that that it's like of course everybody has a smartphone I mean that's just like a given and it's like nobody even questions that but I been around for a while and I still remember when I you know tried to convince my American friends that this mobile thing is gonna be huge and then I was told at a theater in the US we have so many payphones we don't need mobile phones so you know that was of course a while ago I mean this was like late 90s when I was told that and and then of course you know that was when yeah they actually didn't have much mobile activity going on in in the US and then also I mean if I look at back at comic Rovio times that roughly was started in 2003 and actually a lot of the guys who know very very successful in mobile I mean like ilk on super sale and you look at the glass at King and you know all of that that many of those success stories the guy started building their first games and companies like 2000 2003 and and so on and then it

took a long time and then actually what kind of like then made you know like the ketchup bottle like open up was really kinda like the iPhone and the App Store and all of that but I think that one of the reasons why that was possible was that we have had a lot of these pioneers and a lot of course in in comic Nordic countries in Finland because Nokia and and we had a lot of that so people were ready and then okay now there's an opportunity let's go that and then Angry Birds four billion downloads so I think that now when we talk about AR and the ER and all that I mean for me I still remember when us at HP and I was doing this age people saw a program that we again we started in Helsinki and ended up doing a bunch of locations all over the planet China India us and and so on what's very interesting that I remember drawing all these pictures and telling people that actually the market of phones I mean we're gonna have a market where we sell a billion of these a year and then I was again told that a period crazy like a billion really billion

phones I say of course and now of course the market is much bigger but it's again I think that when you look at AR for me it's a mobile technology I mean it's again I always say that mobility is about people it's about us being mobile and then having access to all of these services you know of course games leading a lot of that but it's it's not so much about then like the device or some of that you need to think about you start with the people we start with all of us at the center and then we enable experiences being small screen big screen ARV or whatever but it's about just the fact that people can like tend to roam around and you know like go and invest in companies all over the planet and stuff like that so we are very mobile and in sorry it's very difficult to see that anything could be bigger than the mobile yeah so looking at look you starting to look ahead now and so we've been having people say that the Mobile's reached it's as in earth for a long time he lots of reports going all you know mobile massive it goes it's really there now it's been exactly but

then every year you know we're getting new zoom bill without having to rest and really advise their figures up and up again because it's not slowing down I mean it and so are we which will it be a point what it slows down was mobile gonna be the engine for growth for the industry for some time to come I mean and nothing can keep growing exponentially forever I guess you know of course the top-line growth in number of mobile phones in people's hands slows I mean you can't go from yeah there's another there's no more 10x of that like the amount of time we spend this still has another 10x ahead of it or five or whatever and then at the amount of sort of money and kind of you know energy and value invests although it has another you know several x a head of it yeah so no there's another silly another 10 20 X but already I mean if just take like okay you look at like blockchain you look at all the crypto stuff and you look at the AR I mean there's like definitely 10x or 100x or you know like yeah I don't know how big you know the opportunity but it's it's very very

clear that there's like really no limit yeah and I think that this is again of course if we look at okay how many smartphones will be sold of course I mean most people don't need more than one so so there is a limit and you know the population or planet is not growing that fast but I mean look at fastest growing market you know or or economy Africa so again they're still like room to do stuff there and they are actually jumping directly to convert latest and greatest technology so they don't need to do a lot of the stuff that we had to do in common developed markets so I think that there's massive massive growth always and and I think that I'm always gonna like very bullish on that then and we haven't even like touched on AI and you know we're gonna we're gonna concert so yeah we've got so much get to hear um so we talked about China a couple times and international markets again in as much as mobile as a massive you know China the Chinese markets been there the engine of the mobile market and that that's going incredibly and then again people been getting old China can't keep going this it's gone through

its Industrial Revolution it's gone this big and yet again it does seem to still confound things so it is China is a Chinese market going to be the you know the first market and they've the growth of the industry for the next sort of four or five years still or are we reaching a ceiling there do you think I think that it's very clear that cabochon is the biggest market and it will actually collect extend the gap to the to the next market so I think that's I don't I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be the case and and then I think a little sort of keep being the biggest market of all in our lifetimes right there's no there's no going back from that yeah exactly I mean it's just population and then you look at like the growth of the economy and like what they're doing so I mean again I mean I go to China like twice a month so it's just like their last week and then going there again on Sunday and then all of that and what I always like to say here is that what's a Beijing base you - us sela baggage in - Johanna you you don't sure whatever you hyper one may so I

studied Chinese for eight weeks and that's why my Chinese is not yet perfect but what I think it's very very important that in order for us to understand what's going on in the world and also to understand what's going on in games there's no way around the fact that you have to understand what's going on in China I mean it's as simple as that and and I think that yes it's a huge market it's also like different market but I was always the US and so is Japan and I think that we have this illusion because most of us cannot grew up with you know American TV series and movies and all that that we actually understand America and then Trump happens so you know like so I think that in order to understand any given market you have to be there you have to talk to the people and this is true for the US for the UK I don't understand you guys it's very much true for China obviously so I think I mean obviously from a user perspective

you guys you have a massive pool of developers so quite small developers and meet size bigs I mean we're talking that China is it is it those companies mr. boat what they do need to be thinking there will developers need to be thinking about about the Chinese market they need to get out there and understand it and see that that is going to be China first or is it maybe not China first but it's hard to make a game right it takes you know months years to make a game if you know if you don't spend like a few hours or a couple of days thinking about China like you're being kind of stupid okay and and you know I have actually just today been talking to developers that are like they put out their games just like they may like they make them with no modifications no localization and don't quite well I mean you can do even better probably if you localize I but but you should definitely be considering China and you can self publish to some level sort off I learned a hack that I'm not going to put on stage here but like about how to get into China of course

you should and by the way like you know you go back two years like it was clear like everything had to be free-to-play and very sort of aggressive in China and now they seem to really like premium games yeah there's a big so that's working and I've you know heard about indie developers with like very kind of neat beautiful games that traditionally had no play in China making more revenue from the Chinese market from them from the US market in China and other steams in China they will yeah okay um which is wonderful I mean like another revenue stream is kind of a god-sent to these guys we're gonna switch we talks about like VR and and they are a little bit now and I think that's kind of when we've got exotic connects here we're covering we've covered it for the last couple of years we've been in that space III think it's no great surprised people say it's been a little bit of a false dawn in some respects but I know that unity especially you know the tool of choice

for a lot of the art development you know what what what what's your take I know you've also got VR investments yourself what what's your feeling about where where VR is and where when it will happen or if it will happen the way we expect it to yeah I mean it's just gone slower but it's still there like I think I think somebody predicted a couple of years ago that there will never be a time again where there's no VR headsets for sale and that's clearly true like they're not going away people that there's a few people that are making profitable like make making profits from their products which has obviously started a flywheel so that's not going away it's just damn slow yeah and you know we used to say then then AR is coming much further down the line and maybe it's being flipped maybe maybe AR is happening faster or will happen faster when it happens I don't know do you think either of you with vvr there's there's a thing that needs to happen is it a hard way seems to be the technology seems pretty decent I mean just good enough but like people don't seem to take to it like I don't know I mean yeah sorry yeah I don't know I I don't think

yeah there is not really like somehow some kind of like massive like pent up demand for like VR I think that it's it's a comment we as an industry have created a lot of that like demand that or illusion of that demand that is not really correct there and I think that of course I mean there are great VR experiences but I don't think that we're quite there yet where you have the kind of experience that you like have to go back I mean it's okay fine you can like experience for a few minutes but there there's not like we don't have the collective E or addiction going if you will and I think that that's something that you know we'll see and then if I look at the quality I mean it's very clear that we'll get to good discount like vision quality so basically it will be you know like with the latest like TV you know like screens and all that I mean no people are trying to pitch that oh let's go from 4k to 8k and you can't like see the difference if you're sitting you know like just two meters away or something

like that so you know why would I buy that and I think the bandwidth you need to deliver culinary experience is 24 times bigger or something like that and we all know the status of the network's in someone or even like very developed market so yeah good luck with that and but I think the VR will be at like this it will be as good as your eyes as good as your vision and then it's gonna you know and I think that that will happen on mobile as well like just look at the screen technology and all that so I think that the mobile side will be where them comic volume is that that's coming very clear then then the question is that okay when will that happen and if I had to predict I think that it's somewhere between like three five years before we start seeing something like interesting more slice it's just been three to five years for a really low or no so I used to say like five to seven so yeah okay okay well I didn't so as I

said the initial thinking was that VR was gonna be the Gateway and then a I was just thinking the future was gonna come down the tracks but it does they are will happen much bigger much faster and I mean we've got you know experiences now it's easier to say now but a retrospective look back and it like I realized kind of that you know mobile the mobile phone kind of killed VR for us because we're so addicted you know whether that's good or bad to having like this kind of input like and thing and so on and then yeah VR it's just not really compatible but you're right they re are actually comic takes you away from everything else and your phone I think that's might a good thing for us maybe maybe we need to be ok the day are it's coming fast and hard now yeah I see do you think like 2018 is gonna be a year of a art I mean obviously you've got things like Pokemon go which arguably a more location-based experiences where their appetites yeah and obviously there's the new there's

the Harry Potter was it's going coming and Walking Dead coming all those sort stuff but one thing here actually what I've seen that it's not about the technology when you look at games enlisted I mean again that's a big problem I'll have it VR and like all the you know like the hype that fine but show me something that I actually want to use and will want to come back to and I think what is very important I think Pokemon go fantastic fantastic example first of all I mean being a brand guy and all of that that just shows that you take a brand that is loved by people for like last 20 years so you have like the demand you have the recognition so brand and brand in collect matters I mean super important obviously we have hundreds of games sitting in the market you know every day so you can't like have to stand out and brand is quite part of that or it is that and I think Pokemon go then it also shows that you take something that wasn't you know like you know most of us would probably read it like as a game you know I like the execution all that

not maybe not the most brilliant like on board in like so it also shows that I mean if you have a fantastic experience people will go through a bunch of Hoops to come and get there and they are willing to tolerate that though you know like it crashes and it doesn't work perfectly and all that because hey I love this like experience and and I really think what was fantastic and khaleesi fantastic with Pokemon go that it got people out walking in the streets it got them to buy extra batteries it got to buy like a bunch of stuff I mean that's like fantastic and brand and a little bit of a new experience and okay it's not maybe the most brilliant example of like great game or create a or experience but it shows that you know adding a bit of a new flavor you can do fantastic things with an existing brand it's more of a brand play this pocket won't go to me it's like totally brand I mean it's it's a it's all about the brand I mean so many people who are khalaq moved beyond you know Nintendo

3ds and that face so then when you could get that Pokemon experience that you had as a kid on your phone hey of course and it's free and hey great I can teach my kids me then it's also like good because now we're gonna be walking the streets so we're gonna get like a bit of exercise so I'm glad you can talk about you know obviously pecans and intend oh they proto but Nintendo um Nintendo just kind of come up with something nobody saw coming at all we send in like the labo cardboard thing which is amazing I mean my son is watching that video on repeat like he wants me to get it as early as I possibly can get it it's like the most exciting do you think that's you know there's been a lot of different kind of toys to life type stuff and construction type I mean you know mine cuts construction game you've got you've had things like Skylanders and infinity and then Legos Mindstorms as a toys where does that fit and this is you know obviously it's of a console bullet but it could be is that going to hell the whole new way of interacting with kind of games or or kind of play or is it

just a Nintendo doing something that only mint and it can do I don't know well I mean you already have a lot of toys like there hasn't been this kind of maybe Pokemon go moment of connected toys maybe that's it I don't know but I think it's it's again I mean you said that okay it was like totally unexpected but I think that it's also if you look at Nintendo is it's again carlac it's what you expect don't intend oh guys to do and I think that that's III think that why most was in the industry love Nintendo and like what they're doing because this is exactly what is needed I think Pokemon go like also a schematic example of again showing that hey actually creating car new experiences can be quite fantastic and we don't all need to copy the same like free-to-play template and so wonderful they're sitting there in the basement and Kyoto and they're just going back to first principles yeah let's just think deep about this it's kind of weird like with Wii U yeah you know like it was kind of

like soft launch form but I think that again I mean they don't always get it right and a GameCube wasn't like you know massive success either but it seems like every other generation they did something amazing stuff I think again you know why wouldn't she do that and I think that Nintendo has to claw and they have the brand and they have the presence to do those kind of things and it's what they should do and it's also colicky which all like their responsibility to create these guys yeah yeah I think it's you know so there surely I mean there's no reason why a tablet or mobile I mean there's there's gotta be a play there that's not purely an intent at some point I want to segue from that into something that's obviously close to it so it's your meal as well which is his games education obviously like near that's what you're about using kind of games and gamification to educate um and I think you know I can see my son already plays minecraft at school what's the thing they do this virtual lessons

around it and and I know that I'm sure things like that I will be be there I know that you know there's a lot of Education where do you see games and education going in a couple years you think it's yeah I think that it's it's a massive massive opportunity but then what I always say is is that I mean if you look at light near so yes we're making learning games but we are unlike pretty much all the other people out there because we are not using learning as an excuse for like a crap game so you know I've heard so many times that Oh Peter you have to understand that it's a learning game that's why it's not fantastic it's like yeah good luck with getting any kid playing that game I mean it's it's like kids are not stupid so you know if they have a chance or our choice or playing a learning game and then you know like say Pokemon go or Angry Birds or a clash of clans or whatever then you know we all know what they will play I mean it's pretty obvious so we like no we actually started by okay bringing on board some of the guys who are involved in building Angry Birds so again the idea best

character designer best game designers on the planet and then we teamed up with CERN so we got like the best scientists and then University of Helsinki anok's force or the best pedagogues so you know game designers might not be the best pedagogues the pedagogues I'll tell you are not the best game designers surprise surprise and didn't brought all of this together and then we create this first game that is now like soft launch in a bunch of countries called Big Bang legends and and it's actually been fantastic taking it to schools and then we let the kids play the game for 50 minutes and we actually go there with like so much fun in Singapore where they're like a bit like serious about education so so we went into this classroom then we asked the kids okay so do you love playing games and they yeah of course and and then they have you played games in class there's like yeah more games and then you could tell teachers in the class that oh no we let these crazy Finnish people into the classroom they're destroying the children but then we let

the kids you know play the game for 50 minutes on their like tablets and phones and we just ask them that okay what do you think did you like the game and then you know of course we'd gain some love love the game and some not but we've gotten feedback like from one fourteen-year-old girl like a couple of weeks ago in Finland said okay best game ever and all that so it's it's a good game but then then the really interesting thing is that then we asked him that okay you know played the game for 50 minutes did you learn anything and consistently in Finland in Singapore Argentina Slovakia so are like soft-launched markets the kids always say now we didn't learn anything and then of course then then we didn't we're of course at of 20 people in Helsinki building this game for like two years and this world for two years that oh oh no we cannot totally fail but then we asked the kids and I'll ask you as well so do you guys know how many Forks in a proton how many here no I had it up my tongue I'm a tongue nose but there's actually

three quarks in a proton and guess what after 50 minutes of playing game every single kid in the class raises their hands as 3 after 50 minutes then we ask ok cool so could you name it like five atoms you know five other characters that you found in the game this is actually neon 10 protons by the way anyway so uh so then they say yeah of course and then they go hydrogen helium lithium and then the teachers reaction consistent every place we go Wow yeah never seen the kids learn so much so fast and they were having fun so short answer is that you put your same chemical change education everywhere okay says big opportunities there III pursue a couple questions before we tie so I'm gonna I won't talk also about the role of games in others affairs I mean I know that unity have been working with the kind of film industry and

the engine for prepping and in certain games and and sorry films are there I know you can't to create stuff you know do you see the in the streaming so so for a really long time we had a feeling there would be something there and and like you know the film in distress could have been using unity for previous and for sort of all kinds of stage planning and set design and whatever but that's been exciting and fun to us and some of the really famous directors have used unity personally which is cool but then there's no money there like there's nothing you know come on it but I think that that's it's very clear that that's where the world is going so I think that again it's about creating these worlds and that's comic movies that like small-scale of course games at big scale exactly I think that that's an overlap and as the technology is getting there now they really see that they can produce in real time and like producing in real time is amazing because then like making their films just becomes like puppeteering or live acting which is you know way cheaper in so many ways for so many reasons exactly and and and then you

know it's kind of you know VR and AR has been good to us because it sort of pushes them because they realize now oh there may be a world like soon where we cannot live in only like pixels because you know maybe it's not interactive but at least people have to be able to look around or move their head which forces 3d or like forces interact like real-time so yes so they're all a lot of them are working with real time experimenting with unity and then we go and work with like Neill Blomkamp with our atom demo well we made it at them on the research gave the assets to Neill Blomkamp and the needs to produce the series of shorts from that and sort of proving that you can do it no this is this is where the world is going but I think this actually you know it reminds me of someone like experience had when we're involving like movies and all that and I was told that if we're not Ranaut come across questioning some of these Hollywood guys that's ok that you know sounds like the business you're doing it's like pretty risky and and like not a very good business and then I was told that Peter you don't understand it's the

movie business that's like yeah so like why would I run like some kind of bad business just because it's the movie be and I think that there's a lot of this kind of problem that when you come from games that then hey you don't you know David you know you guys you don't really understand it's the movie business you can't like it's like this is you know like especially with many people in Hollywood they're like used to being kind of like top of their car like food chain and and then why why they're like looking down at you in games and they've your other business because hey guys you know we are Hollywood where you know and I think I think that this is one of the big obstacles but I think it's absolutely clear that there is a huge they could have right out of VR and AR yeah but I think that also that it's it's a games industry I mean we actually have a lot of people who know how to create these worlds create these fantastic characters and all of that so there's comic no different but I think that the games industry is much more

dynamic and and open to new ideas I mean it's it's why games is much bigger and I mean just like the Apple App Store is bigger than Hollywood box office so yeah like it's it's very interesting and this is almost just like a special case of a sort of great macro trends we've been living through sort of I guess through our lives most of the people here which is the move from sort of a you know 2d and non interactive to 3d and interactive and and and I remember when we were starting out with unity like these investors were people who knew the world as it used to be they would tell us like yeah you know it's it's so expensive to make 3d it's so expensive to do interactive versus like the and yeah yeah yeah until it's not like every every every form of medium every form of Industry every form of production has a potatoe point driven by tools and so on and unit is part of it but there's many others that are needed for that where we're like making a 3d experience and making it interactive becomes cheaper yeah and then when you go a few years out and as we already

like touched on that it's like as good as your vision you know your eyesight then you know it becomes pretty interesting so it's again I think that these comic things will will there's very interesting opportunities there for sure but one thing I would actually contract on the interactivity part that that also like coming from games and all that that I mean sometimes you don't want the interaction it's just like somebody delivered a story to you and you can just like lay back and like okay enjoy the story and you don't want to be like oh do you pick every story should be like some multiple-choice thing but during the production and then you can very quickly create you control the camera with with a joystick oh yeah of course I'm not saying old storytelling has to change okay this this cone flowers I very shy kid but I've got we've got about eight minutes left so I want to give a chance to people to ask a question I've got I've got a leg more questions so it doesn't matter I don't really care if you have a question but

it only feels fair so the patient's head of time oh we were getting taller so anybody got a question for Dave and Peter about champion yet talks about eSports or AI or - er trip so so has anybody got a question got elite immolated it's quite there's a man at the hands there who needs a here we go Eric's gonna hurt he's got a mic coming to you next Rendon please if I mean we can't all do cardboard things and distribute them yes I'm being so negative here and we're making that more poor in Finland there's plenty to go yes isn't it yeah totally yeah and and okay so we are hesitant or or we're seeing is is VR something that that has his uses in specialized areas or so so what's the next big thing in games beyond cardboard so we I'm really excited to hear what Peter says I think the great wave of tooling at least this AI I mean that's just that's sort of what excites me the

most and you know unit is really kind of bubbling over with AI you haven't really seen it yet but there's like people in every department of unity playing like experimenting we've we've hired some really tremendous people from the sort of best you know AI companies out there and I think you'll see sort of every every product category will have you know AI in it somehow we see that like I think more start most of the startups I invest in or even meet and I'm interested in have some AI component so for me that's the biggest thing Peter do you agree disagree what something else yeah yeah but I would actually like totally agree with that and many of the companies that I'm talking to our are also actually somewhat a more like right there in the middle of like AI and that's what they do but I I ca I in in pretty much everything so that's that's definitely something that is not only cobbling under but it's like pitting big time and again China sixty percent of all the research paper in research papers in a I already like year before last very

Mandarin so again you know it's it's comically interesting so we need to come back again to understand what's going on in AI understand China as well but then then I think maybe you're on this like cardboard example and all of that I mean not everybody can afford to do and has the presence of a Nintendo but I think that it's it's again great example of really thinking about the experience first and not doing what everybody else is doing I mean intended did a great job with the way back in the day you know Sony and Microsoft you know going off and they still cannot do that okay which one has come out to bigger and better processor and what have you so I think that it's a good reminder for all of us that let's not get carried about away with you know arv Rai whatever hi but actually always always start with the experience and then just like pick appropriate technologies and of course technologies are enabling us to create better experiences but I always a Travian with Angry Birds Roy said that hey we're not a technology company I

mean we're delivering fantastic experiences and that's where that's kind of never gonna change I think that's when you keep that in mind you you know do fantastic things okay so you some quickfire ones then so we haven't we've got about three or four minutes to get through is the messenger games we have lots of talks about layers we're not going whole thing yet what do you think is that something that's happening now it seems an obvious undoubtedly yes absolutely like it's hopefully just kind of just gonna be another beautiful wave of like extra opportunities and growth and Papa you know right now it's super simple games in a few years it'll be really big games or like more advanced games yeah that's you can say China begins messenger market and anything like the tension which at guys are doing and it actually doing very interesting things as we speak and I mean Facebook we dare messenger also interesting stuff so a short answer is that yes it's definitely happening it's been happening for a long time and maybe even you know taking off bigger way as we speak our Facebook are

actually talking as a couple there's a talk later this afternoon all by in semesters game so interesting that come of that what chain encrypt so we got a whole track tomorrow about that obviously Bitcoin yeah cryptocurrencies mental block chains the future everything I know I mean I've invested in it I I could tell you one thing about blockchain if you can lose money very rapidly in currencies if you what with that I can do there's a lot of interesting things going on there my contention is always like you can run all of the entire blockchain ecosystem and one well-tuned instance of my sequel so it's kind of frustrating that we're burning now like you know as much energy as Denmark where you could just have like one sort of reasonable server doing the whole whole work but yes now there's interesting things I've invested in a couple of companies there's this no doubt that some kind of new things are being created that could not run otherwise agreed okay and finally and I'm have one more question it's close eSports I mean I in a way it's not a trend it's here but you

know is it gonna I think I filled my investments possible for I can see the engagement is incredible the the maybe the the revenue hasn't hit in the same way that people expected it to as yet you see eSports Mobile eSports I think these eSports as a gonna smash it all far too little about eSports to really say anything about it if it's big I believe in it I have friends who are doing very interesting things in it and sort of can explain it to me and then I forget because I know but it's really a thing you must know more about yeah I think that it's very early days of over eSports I mean of course we have some some success stories there already but I think that it's it's kamek waiting for comic it's big comment breakthrough and I think that it's gonna be around more casual experiences so come on everybody can play and I think that already I mean what he'll Consumer Cellular guys are doing their with flash photolysis

a step in that direction but it's still not like super casual so I think that there's still room to to come a crow that and and and I wouldn't come back forget about the comic traditional sports so you know take something like football or soccer as our American friends would say there's quite a few people who understand the rules of that game and watch those games I mean we have you know like one real classical games you have I don't know 500 million to a billion people watching so you know if you have that for an eSports thing and you will in the future so maybe combining some of the traditional like sports and there is a reason why all the traditional teams be it you know football or ice hockey or basketball they're all dipping their toes and even a bit more in in comedy sports water so I expect these ports to be massive actually so the the most interesting thing I learned about or like the thing that worked best

for my brain to understand eSports was actually reading Ben Thompson was an analyst his articles on sports in general and how sports instead of the linchpin that holds real-time TV together yeah and sports is actually in a in a sort of a dive it parts of sports like the people like the Watchers are getting older so so real-time TV sort of reliant on eSports to happen so I think that explains some of the energy and money going into it what that means for the future I don't know but it's but I think that also I mean I think we can learn from like traditional sports but there's also many things that are not like it's a little bit like the Hollywood guys that you know have their attitude and I think it sports also that you know they're so as to why sports yeah it's always been done in a certain way and I think that we need to come like learn how to do that in in new ways because with the technology there's new opportunity and and but anyway it's it's definitely gonna be okay very big final final final very super quick answer we talked about positivity all opportunities biggest threat the industry right now everything's rolling

along we get the games indices going you know biggest some industry world big big big big a what what could could knock us off you know is it gonna be custom apathy is gonna be over supply is it going to be is there anything that you know we should be wary of anything keeps you up at night no yes no abusive monetization like and let that leads to regulation yeah yeah that's that's one but then I think just like this like race or dislike general like ignorance and and of course like you know Trump and breaks it and like it a lot of these kind of things that are you know big threats like on a pretty high level because it's it's like super difficult to understand why that is happening and I think that that is something that I mean also in the games industry I mean we have our fair share of like ignorance and I think that that's yeah super bad and something that we need to come back fight it's it just makes you know more difficult to

bring people together to you know okay create great games and also enjoy great games okay that's really I've taken too much time the next panel apologize to a big round of applause please for for David and Peter thank you very much thank you [Music] [Music]