4X (R)evolution part2. Last War: The biggest 4X in 2024! Crucial UA integration into core-loop

so this is just like how it looks like in metro station for um in Soul I mean there there there's more there's the gates creative right there by the way yeah by the way yes exactly minus three times two yeah it's and it's it's it's absolutely amazing uh but it's not the only thing even the offline creative is but but that's the thing like it's all the all the thing that you know it's all all connected uh but it's not it's it's it doesn't end there so let me just show you this [Music] this is a no [ __ ] gaming show where we talk about games and their revenue in great detail powered by our ad monetization game design and user acquisition Triple Threat expertise welcome to the two and a half Gamers the unfiltered truth served with a side of giggles

let's not forget this is a 400 a.m. conference discussion Vibe so let's not take it too seriously tune in now and stay two and a half steps ahead of the gaming industry hello Jesus Christ now I mean like this is a very different time than we usually um us hello everyone welcome to the sober conversation where we share ridiculous [ __ ] yes yes that's us so um yeah we today we have the the second part of the Forex um you're not doing the normal H and that's I I I I I wanted to say my name is Mel welcome H we are your hosts and we also work as consultants but you know that's a discussion for another time okay so what are we talking about to the what I already said we're talking about me sitting here and looking pretty I even shave for this occurrence because

you know as long as we do this Forex series I'm just here for looks and well that's good at least you are here for a while and then I'm like the I'm like the the hostess girl for these like '90s TV shows standing by The Wheel of Fortune I should have put on a red dress yeah that's how it works man but you know like that's uh what can we do it's it's Forex so yeah let's cut the crap um so we're talking about the biggest game in Forex category that's currently grossing there right now that's the important thing we need to talk about because last time for those not listening we talk about top heroes this other game which turned out to be a Forex game and this it was a double cross yeah exactly and this game even though it doesn't look from the stor three shots the creativ the initial gameplay as a Forex game is the same [ __ ] IG against where actually wa

wait what do you mean usans I have no idea what you're talking about I know how I knew like in the foui there's no ads and I'm like why are there no ads if this game is looking so like hyper hybrid casually it doesn't look hybrid casually at all there no hybrid at all it looks exactly like you you see all these hyper casual uh games uh from well from the past now apparently they are dead but they're not so I'm starting well you are starting of course you were like I mean kind of connecting connecting the dots yeah so let's let's do the connecting the dots conspiration meme guy so last war uh regarding its current revenue and downloads it's scaling like crazy already hit two nearly two and a half million a day yeah a day that that we see here in sensor Tower um regarding downloads it's still going very strong

not scaling up but sitting some for Forex game 240,000 downloads per day it's quite a lot yeah it's crazy it's let's just say it's completely crazy but yeah currently it was like launched in June and it's sitting at 25 million download it launched in June has a soft launch what are you talking about yeah that's that's the soft launch yeah uh then it started scaling in November last year and it's sitting at like 100 let's say 130 million all together yet but I guess they didn't just achieve their final form yet the conspiracy part is that you see the game even here in sens tower under the company first fun that is a fraud it's not a fraud it's a strategy because those of you that are old enough to remember the old days of companies like epic fun Bam Bam Bam who's that

was a big fun it's machine Zone machine Zone machine Zone exactly where machine Zone was launching each of their game which was literally a reskin of the previous game on different Company accounts so and these guys are doing a little bit of the same because we know that these are actually the guys behind top war and top heroes and top heroes that's was the that was the clue from the last episode where we had this top war River game HK which is I guess Hong Kong right so they they have all the all the companies outside of China in in Singapore or Hong Kong wherever else so the important part is that these guys are immensely skilled in Forex and they're actually putting the category one notch higher with their onboarding Shenanigans which is the ones that you see here as top heroes which would out turn out to be Forex but in the end it's

like an idle RPG in the start then you have top war if you remember when we covered it last time it's pretty much like a merging game they changed their to to like four times three or four times it was completely different per year yeah it's like like no Forex at all until some point in the game where again the merging game kind of becomes last war it's quite quite quick I mean I just rushed through the the on boarding I like immediately in the Forex so here's a top tip if you're playing playing a game that looks like a hyper casual creative and then you come across a hospital you've been Hood wigged yeah not even Hospital the resources on the side I can 2x my like my rewards after the level what's going on yeah yeah it's just like these small kind of hints that will immediately tell you that yeah you're dealing with a Forex that that's and also if if you look at how the top heroes UI elements are kind of built it's the same thing it's right right up

top right corner it's like a store or special offer whatever it's the same thing but this is the Forex kind of thing like every every Forex needs to have these things at some point and like you know you do it but honestly I like the Slovak Flag by the way I I had the same raising the Slovak flag I had the same thing I was like who guys this is interesting all right yeah but but just a quick comparison uh top heroes definitely hide the Forex layer much longer this game would unlock the map somewhere within first 30 minutes oh yeah minutes level three it's level three they get unlocked the map oh really no no no no it's level five at least it's the don't right afterwards but but it's like within first session it's it's very very fast it's very very for top heroes it would be like few sessions so that's there and let's start um like from the onboarding side and like how it looks for new players so

you would just go here through this road and like yeah I was expecting you to pull up a new uh game mod or whatever too much time we're just skipping just wait just wait until they show the bomb screenshots the bomb I didn't even get there you didn't get to the bomb no God no I just I like I rush through the tutorial I was like [ __ ] out like this as soon as I saw a hospital I'm like I'm not playing anymore this come on I had the full job for a week to play of course well that's your job man like come on like what are you talking about I I saw I show you this game like like three months ago yeah but like I you know I was still playing top heroes before and that was the other full time job anyway let's get to the game play actually I didn't know I didn't know yob you actually moved to Berlin and you are sitting like next to to Felix that is that you grandpy kid right there yeah look at he's sitting there how

and teenagers want to be me but I don't want to be me Shut Up by [Laughter] candy yeah so the game plays like this with this kind of a Gates creative I don't know how to call this kind of a modification G play qu already yeah but but it's very Advanced because actually what what we have here there's Heroes that are having their abilities on autop playay there's lot of mobs you actually need to kind of move from left to right and then suddenly like the whole screen gets completely whacked you later you get this drone that bombards the area or whatever you can't die physically impossible to man you can't die really okay you can very easily die you just didn't play okay yeah yeah true this guy will definitely kill me I can I can show you uh because this is the gating mechanic they have can you hear the drilling by the way no we can't okay

the important thing is that they also have this Chopper thing here with side modes of this get to the chopper exactly and this is actually the one from the creatives directly because no from the creatives it's only on boarding that's like but but check this one out oh [ __ ] I keep dying play this for a week and two times in a row yeah so see this is the one with the numbers so you need to actually kind of think with like what number to pick in and stuff like that oh my God you suck so much like why she so bad but it's actually hard he actually hard yeah well you're playing for a week and you can't but these are these are these are scripted so no you know why because you're playing with your mouse and you're cheating yeah I I told you and cheating yeah no no we're winning this one yeah anyway uh so this is the one that you actually play a little bit with the mat it always ends with this like we're shooting at some at the end of the level

but you need to go through actually those M creatives and whatever the gates mechanic and they what what what does that even mean what M the gates with the like mats and obvious fails whatever yeah doesn't matter but they have hyper casual they they have it a side mode here and they even have like oh you were better than 62% of the play blah blah blah blah blah yeah something something you only need a double the reward kind of place when they're there anyway so so you start the whole thing about you going around the base I'm already on my second round around the base and unlocks space so you have here the space because this Forex game doesn't have uh scripted Base building you can actually like go here and move the buildings around the base so you can play with it a little bit also how the game starts you actually you need to go you are now going around the base but you need to enter the base and those are like the hyper casual kind of easy uh the on I show you they they move into the chopper

here but you still need to kind of go around the base to collect these cards and like unlock more space like this for instance there was a block here and uh yeah actually the thing starts very interestingly because this is actually what's their kind of a first session tutorial where the guy literally tells you that the narrator girl is sitting on a and her name is Monica yeah Monica you know us eye candies need to stay together like I will not have another eye candy be talked to like that yeah so so Monica which is actually a hero in the game and a pretty good one she's like well yeah she's here she's a SSR staff officer Monica there you go yeah and and then like suddenly as you enter the base by the way she's sitting on a bomb with eight hour timer and you need to go again continue going around the base and collect these like uh whatever scissors or like wire cutters

to like cut the wires of the bomb and she just literally sit there for8 hours I was like what's going to happen when she blows up like I didn't have time to finish it like in my first session it's like I can get Ro yeah yeah yeah so so I didn't save Monica and hello you go back the next day another session Monica still sitting on the bomb without any timer so that's actually what happens it's just like no timer no timer and and you slowly see like you're cutting these wires and you're going around the base and then uh yeah and and you cut it out it gives you Monica unlock mon shs yeah Monica shards and and that's it but like yeah Monica won't blow up even if you let her so uh bastard you you should save Monica yeah you don't have time in the first session you know how much time it takes to kind collect all the all the things no I don't I turned already yeah because was the only one playing it yeah anyway way as we move forward

now the game literally switches much more to the Forex part again we have the world button you go there and hello it's our favorite Forex map again oh so here we are no way cat buildings and whatever assembly points yeah our alliance which is like by the way 15 strongest one on the server like as you see here are you showing off or like what's yeah the part which you didn't play as the usual of course yeah of course like is not for me then then starts the usual I call it like clicking on the notification badges part because all of these games are so massive that you're just basically clicking on all the notifications so you have like this the build one the build you for sure go and build something you know you need it anyway you you want like research something all the time by the way the research they literally locked a research three behind a monthly subscription there you go

move uh the other thing is that they had uh yeah I think from the screenshot they have very very nice like initial events that you can go there and like just immediately shower you with rewards if you look into yeah here we are just like how many liveops events these guys are running all the time it's like there's so many like each of them probably have their own battle pass or whatever these are just the Forex yeah and then you have like yeah weekly pass whatever Pass lucky spins of course why not which is the you know the usual kind of mechanic we see all the time some other events like you pretty much get completely drowned in events that they're running each of them is like very money hungry and then you know comes the usual thing the good thing is the Raider mechanic as our usual it starts with the Raider uh similar to White out survival

or top heroes we have our Raider which again simplifies the Forex gameplay which in their case uh I think they added one more thing into it because I've never seen it in uh the other one maybe white out survival have have it but I didn't get there long far enough where you actually going and helping your uh clan mates where you literally can helping them with resources or whatever so this is something that I think was kind of new because all the other games they would just have your usual kind of objectives of bring this kill this go there whatever like for instance here like you know rally against this guy which I even cannot because like I need level 20 headquarters that I don't have so that's there uh then they have this track mechanic because you see that has like tracks going around on the map like what's what's tracks so this is also a nice addition that they added here is literally or let me let me go from the base that that's more interesting so if you go to the base and at some point if

you go around the second round they have this like train station and trucks so what you can do is you go there and you have two type of things so you can have your own tracks which which this is pretty much the Bounty mechanic from AFK Arena because you put like a long-term timer you put your Heroes on a long-term timer for instance oh yeah that's ultra rare why not so you you put your escort squat into it and the truck goes and arrives in 5 hours and it's going and it's carrying all these resources but the thing is that other people can attack it and take those resources and the defense of the track of course is depending on this like uh strength of Heroes yeah exactly and they also you need multiple Heroes to send multiple tracks so on so forth and we can go and check other people's people's tracks for instance this one yeah let's plunder plunder plunder and we can go there and literally steal their resources

nice oo yeah so this mechanic I haven't seen anywhere but I think it's it's really good because again it it's playing for fleshing out your collection you need more Heroes to send more Heroes as well and better Heroes as well to defend them so it's a great sign that they didn't dep is [ __ ] like exactly but it's a great sign same with top heroes that they're not not ditching the initial onboarding game play out they're playing with it in the like late game which means that it's very important to kind of still care about the heroes the gacha mechanic and everything it's not that just like one time thing on on board like it was in top uh top war right yeah top war it's kind of like merging and that's it and then they they can't completely yeah you even have Auto button there later so it's like not not that not that important now and I think this is what we're seeing and I'll talk about it a little bit later as I get to like competitors and stuff uh the Forex s will be much more

sophisticated it's pretty much you building these two games but they need to work together you just but it's even like free games already yeah yeah exactly but you know we don't see it that much for instance in the west at all even this whole kind of mechanic that we build this other game to on board users and then you switch to the other game but it's like now it's not not not only like you need to have both but you need to connect them and they need to work together seamlessly you know in order can of to move anyway you could you could now now draw all the core Loops next next to each other like yeah yeah it's just one giant kind of a core Loop schematic so the mechanic before you go on just um there there's quite a lot of Forex games on the market we covered quite a few of them right um yeah the Dow is always between somewhere between 20K Dow to 200,000 da right what like how many people in the world actually actively play Forex and is this million for last war the yeah no but

like you know what I mean like how many users in the world actually play Forex and actually are active in wanting to play Forex is it like two million worldwide you can you can check the the numbers for last Forex podcast it's way way less than than hybrid casual obviously so I mean you can compare man the the thing is that by having these streamline systems by having these very seamless boring you're literally increasing the number so let's say it's like five million worldwide or 10 million the hardcore ones the hard hardore yeah the ones that are then fighting with the clans on the map whatever but the important thing is you have all these other whatever Canon F people going in that's feeding them that's very like you and me Felix that's us yeah exactly that's us so you still stay on the map even if you play the game for some time and you know somebody comes and like eats you up or whatever so my guess is that by doing these mechanics and clever designs yeah we're food for yob yeah yeah

exactly so Jesus Christ so they're increasing the the addressable Market there they're literally increasing it because you know with these hyper casual creatives the very smooth onboarding because like yeah the the broad appeal kind of you know gets you there and until you find out that this is [ __ ] by way you could really see that they're using all of their same tricks that we see with top heroes for instance like these like no rewards like very shitty rewards they're just there to kind of have the badge there so like throughout the whole uis you go there for instance like yeah go check your VIP and like you did it I don't know five times but each day they put this like whatever shitty reward of like yeah literally nothing gave me nothing or like the the deals that have like again nothing there with them it's just like go like one yeah you need to just go there and claim yeah like claim 100 gems it's just like nothing and like yeah thank you but I've seen the deal already and like they do this every day so you just like go there and pick up your yeah the first session

is always just like a notification session yeah first session is literally like notification session then clicking on everything like everything is built yeah I need to click all of this all of this all of this yeah set up your timers because of course like you finish building soldiers you need to build a new batch of soldiers yeah here we go 7 hour timer again 7 hour five five hour timer whatever timer and like it is literally work then click all your rewards on the quest click all your rewards daily Quest no [ __ ] Jesus Christ is research or like what come on I'm researcher of the free-to-play experience can we be can we be a part of it when you make your first I yes can yeah like can we do it live on the podcast yeah yeah yeah I don't know if it will work through emulator but yeah let's see yeah by the way we excuse that you could have been using

yeah we have a live live session on Wednesday actually so we can we can try we can try make you make you pay in the game you can try but you won't succeed yeah I will send you that like [ __ ] 10 or whatever will be dead yeah but interesting part is also that uh yeah in this this screen you would seen ads in the previous game and top heroes and you don't see ads here so what does this say about this game Felix three three 73 so so does it imply that they will make more money if they don't have it even with this giant one and a half million da I guess so what that was super easy come on man I mean like honestly like we've so many Forex games and it's just like man I'm so over this like dude always like when I do the same calculation it's just always the same like three or to two 4% of AD Revenue like but like why is it like so so low ad now

like you you have two million daus almost so how can it be yeah one okay well let's say one and half for me what I would say here is just like guys segmented like I'm sure you have so much data on your users like there is users that will never make a purchase so you know just yakob enable them to see rewarded ads right but like yeah yakob he should be actually able to watch 10 rewarded ads a day yeah like really valuable audience and like the iips will like make it more valuable they probably would be able to get like a global ecpm of like $100 probably but that's the thing yeah right so like there there's so many veils and like hardcore players are paying a lot of money since you know we we saw how's the community on this Remo what do you mean Community is it a big community on like Reddit or Discord of course they have very big Community okay that's why then because basically because their social is like very good and it's all just driven by the top clans later down the line like for instance my clan there's like 100 people in the alliance and you know 100 active people you don't play you get kicked out

eaten out whatever so it's like the social is very very big so that's why they don't have then because then that would be people would find that out quite quickly and people would be livid yeah but you know the the important part is that uh they're still increasing in the Au still increasing in N still increasing revenue and this is also one of my kind of assumptions here yeah we're probably going to die just well we not going to die you going to die yeah show you how how the gating works here with the Doom Elites but the thing is that my guess is that why for instance you know the big question that always was in when I was playing it why this is more successful than top heroes mhm and like few things that seems to be the case in my opinion is that this uh goes into Forex much faster oh quickly yeah exactly which means it's probably know better conversion faster scaling faster

whatever that's one thing the other thing is that the game play is just much easier this kind of the onboarding first game play of these mechanics is much easier than your even the simplified action RPG the top heroes has it's still it's still more easier than than that because you just move left right whatever like meic it's pretty much like you know very very easy uh then it's I guess a little bit more appealing because still top heroes looks like an RPG and yeah people just don't kind of like that that much so so that's there and then uh the last thing is the team top heroes is fantasy this is zombies zombies always works great always win so my guess is that even just like these three four things could be responsible for why this game makes like what like eight times more Revenue than top heroes a day so yeah that that's

that's my guess but the thing is that the important thing is that it's not really based on the premise that you need to hide the Forex that much because they're not hiding in that much it's literally hting the first session so so it's again abely obvious after down boarding like up up tutorial ended like it was really obvious that it's Forex game it it's about still like the first game that needs to be very smooth on on boarding like you know your first five to 10 minutes but afterwards like trying to hide the Forex so much like top hero does or these other things like yeah it didn't really help them like top heroes that much and also keep in mind that they had all the knowledge it's the same company top war top heroes last war it's the same company so my guess is it was just like a different team within the company that was like tasked with this and like one was like go last for the other team was go top heroes and they

just have different approaches and now we have a winner here so well but also what Haven told us uh I'm trying to find it like these these guys are all connected between each other in China it's like Forex for people Forex people yeah they're different companies but like same kind of almost like same teams uh I'm trying to find like what it who is it yeah because it was yeah camel games uh and then Lilith obviously yeah cled of Kings last shelter last shelter [ __ ] it's Monday morning because if heess top four last four top heroes it's like all like the same different companies but like fully related kind of gam if you look into the overall Forex category for last month yeah we see still white out survival with like 60 million a month being the first and last work breathing down his neck 56 million very close very we see like plora of Asian Games if I

understand the only kind of Western representative is Aon here how is that Western isn't it like it us company okay that's sorry sorry sorry sorry honestly like if you have any other like guys you're listening and you have more information let us know but yeah I'm pretty sure like everybody's worry don't ask me like I'm just I candy for this because yeah uh so so do I get it right of this whole is is pretty much Asian companies like the whole Forex genre is completely like the days of machine zone are over and there oh yeah 100% yes no no one here the important thing is you know you have these kind of U games that are doing these onboarding things which is white out survival and last war and if you look just last week data last war is already ahead of white out survival because as I said white out sorry last war is still scaling up and doing like two and a half million a day if you look at where we are a day a day still yes

and if you look at wiow survival wiow survival is still also scaling up still going up but on a scale of 2 million a day yeah so they're just growing faster and it's probably also because the downloads just work better because they have double the downloads like double or triple the downloads a day to White out survival yeah and they're also quite new uh white survival now kind of reaches its first year which is still pretty impressive and last war is what like three months all kind of in this scaling game so you know they have better um starting point or current situation but it's also probably because this whole kind of a you know game play created out of that Gates creative mechanic is just probably more hyper casual more appealing whatever but but other than that like for me the game plays a little bit better than top heroes regarding the

onboarding regarding the like daily yeah like top was super slow super super slow like okay well I was just waiting okay when the [ __ ] Forex hits me in the face and then it happened afterwards but yeah this is way quicker and as I said they had these kind of other mechanics that that are like going on like in the Forex map like the track whatever thing like some of the things I I I thing I never seen with the Forex game yet or because I haven't played them that much but even the map and like everything they have here is I would say a little bit more fleshed out to me at least like some things like with these like other special buildings on the map and everything and the alliances are like they are a little bit more massive to to me like seems like they just have higher da that's why like I have like 100 people Alliance that I'm sitting in currently in top top top heroes uh I was like sitting in like a 50

people one or something so yeah it's just kind of bigger better stronger the usual thing but the the kind of the big uh lesson from all this is that yeah these guys exactly know what they're doing they've been doing it for many many years like 10 plus years I guess and they just perfected the Forex genre to like one more Notch higher which is the current biggest problem Forex gen user acquisition so again user acquisition dictated the product and especially the product on boarding there yeah but this that's the thing uh companies from China coming and being five 10 steps ahead of anyone from West because when you say oh let's implement this hyper casual creatives in your in your game everybody's like oh no no no no no the game is like losing it's premium field immediately blah blah blah it doesn't fit the brand whatever else well guess what makes money

money makes money nobody cares if you implement it correctly and it kind of put it in the game as you see it here then yeah then suddenly you are scaling like absolute absolute crazy so it kind of helps right very interesting thing like they literally put uh an offer for like ultra rare hero as a building in your base you can move it like it just sit there and and there it is it's just like that's your offer hellim you can buy Kimberly for you know one something well it's nothing it's just like super cheap super cheap yeah and it just sits there sits there all the time and as I said they make sure that you go and click on all of the offers with their shitty shitty rewards just trying to get rid of the like the badges you program from social network anyway it's it's done very very well and as as I said like whoever go go goes into this game even though they're not the Forex player just by clicking on all the things

rails follow dots yeah just click click and then suddenly it's you know I'm playing the Forex game exactly so yeah outstanding job and yeah I think we're looking at the Bigg ex Forex game in the category yet yeah and honestly the one looking for looking at like a this year and even having kind of confirm like they are on a very good track to to be the the top one this year for sure because you can already see the revenues yeah and I can I can kind of take over here uh at least for for uh a short period of time when I just want to show you a few things because I was looking into this uh and then you know oh let's start with the actual revenues you showed but I just want to see slightly differently because this is more important cuz then there was like few different twists and like huh what the [ __ ] is happening so we have yeah we have this it's last war right so you you

showed us this but if we are looking at last six months we in the last 12 months doesn't matter that much but yeah it starts it started to look quite interesting but this is Weekly right so weekly and then it started scaling November it's like who the [ __ ] scales games in four in Q4 but I guess these guys but anyways it was a interesting start and then they just continue scaling this most important part is well you you have us right there as a top one but then you have South Korea Taiwan Japan and then we have the rest which is Germany Hong Kong France UK Canada Australia but US versus South Korea so I also kind of was wondering like what the [ __ ] is happening in this because we saw here kind of mid what was it mid January or start of February like what why is kind of South Korea suddenly

scaling like hell I was like okay well let's let's kind of contact our South Korean friends and then suddenly uh so thank you Ino from uh from South Korea uh he he he told us look so you know they're actually running a lot of out of home um marketing activities so this is a metro station um offline branding offline yes by the way they're using the same IP stop War these guys with blue helmets Yeah Yeah Yeah that's the same same thing I mean it's quite connected so this is just like how it looks like in metro station for um in in Soul I mean there there there's more there's the gates creative right there by the way yeah by the way yes exactly minus three times two yeah it's and it's it's it's absolutely amazing uh but it's not the only thing even the offline creative is well but that's the thing like it's all the all the thing that you know it's all connected uh but it's not it's it's it doesn't end there so let me

just show you this let me just show you this right away which is a TV commercial so we looking at TV commercial and again playing playing the gates creative on screen with the real I mean it's just like it's amazing there you go yeah it's so good it's such a good commercial and I think they have one more um but I'm not sure if I can I can show it somewhere but everywhere like never there is shown Forex game it's like everywhere just this Gates mechanic everywhere on the Billboards in the creatives even the actors are playing the gates exactly it's just like it's so good it's so so good and so so well connected to the onboarding and everything so you know like yeah why

this happened I mean they started pushing so much in the in South Korea and you know it seems like it's it's working so well for them in the in terms of the revenues that was like the time when we actually started talking about last war I saw their ads like so many times um during I think end of the year and beginning of the year I was like hey look this is the game we're going to talk about oh we'll see we'll see and then suddenly Mr y over here saw the revenue I was like whoa okay but then I was like okay well who the [ __ ] are these guys like why is like so why is it scaling so much and I open the game the game and then the loading screen says River game HK is like oh my God here you go connecting the do immediately like now I know like why is it is this scaling because it's like an iteration on top War I guess it's an iteration right yeah it's an iteration on top four definitely using the same IP everything yeah same and then uh but the creatives

are way way better I mean it's can you tell me guys oh Jesus Jesus Christ it was so loud so this is like a combination of different things so do you know like which games are these kind of uh creatives it's uh Mob control maybe or was the original one the uh the shelter one yeah last year could be but no like this is Evon uh these barrels and the gates and well Gates barrels and and even these uh numbers on top of it but it's like all all of these and they have like so many different kind of um version of this version of these yeah and this just like also like slightly different visual Style but that's actually in the game play like if you if you go around that base and you

play that there's literally rolling bellers that if you destroy the barels they will give you soldiers to kind of you know yeah they give Soldiers the upgrades different uh um weapons as well it's it's all there it's all all there and this is just like look so this is also from from different game which you had on the on the screen uh we can we can take we can take a look at it afterwards but uh let's see right there because I also [ __ ] I also I was talking about this game uh in Istanbul for uh on our like mobile gaming unpacked event uh when I was talking about creative Trends so they using all of these like different games and it's like all of like Gates which is hyper casual kind of um concept with all these um numbers and then there's Evony there's like they have even different hooks in the in the game in in the creat Le so okay but this is all all the same

there's like James Bond music who James Bond music of course James Bond music uh we can we can check so they have look so they have mainly appin obviously scaling so much but the YouTube and Google is quite big and then they have Unity Facebook oh let's see Twitter what the [ __ ] what is it on Twitter oh nice oh it's all kind oh nice no but this oh there's a yeah yeah this is good this is really good he going backwards yeah they're going backwards which is also quite good and this is all like man when I when I will show you the what was it age of origins or um the the war and something which we discussed yesterday and it's all it's the same thing it's just this is more soldiers they had zombies and different uh different things but I I really like the combination of like this kind of going backwards and this is heavy iteration in Creative World very

heavy iteration man very very let's see what what kind of Tik Tok they have oh it's quite quite a lot ah okay this is this is perfect man this is press Yes again now we have you know what we have zombies it's not only it's not only about uh the the heroes or what like the soldiers again like hordes of zombies it's just like you know like we were discussing this a long time ago and always it's zombies lots of zombies and Gates and Hyper casuals they have all of this in the it's pretty much like you know doing everything you can to to like go get those uway checks like take this take that take take this exactly it's just like yeah if if you don't do it then I mean yeah you don't already losing already losing the edge oh V version yeah winter version of course winter version like that's like

what they really talking about it's it's all there and you have all the Z all the nice oh you're shooting better weapons now yeah yeah yeah yeah look upgrades everything it's like they're not [ __ ] around at all okay it's it's it's working really well it's like again and and then we have the last kind of wave with all the monsters all the like the heroes and everything and then obviously uh obviously it's oh my God these is my favorite H playing games people say a fake five okay now we need a better gun oh that was close we need to get right like come on the usual like making fun of yourself being fake real exactly exactly so we're not do this is not fake you know what's the best part of it it's actually not fake because this in the game there's the thing like this is actually in the game so you can't say like this fake I think it's over yeah we can't beat this it's just like it's it's not fake but it's like all these um ugc type of videos as well and we have

some is an actually oh my God like this is so so much fun looking into this they have also uh different hooks as well I'm going to add this these different hooks in the in the post production so you can you can see them as well because they have such a good uh combinations of creatives and I would say it's it's on pair with uh with wildart survival as well it's just uh so many different I mean look they're all hyper casual kind of um Concepts but from different angles different perspectives different you know like it's going backwards it's you have different uh barrels you have wood in here you have different um weapons and then you have that's the big difference between white out survival white out survival mostly goes on the golden goblins creative which is like stacking of the resources but it's not in the game like there's simulation everything but it's not exactly in the game these guys have exactly in the game

exactly and they build the game play out of it that's that's the thing like here oh my God this is so good do you see the that hook at the beginning is just like it's it's amazing but the guy the guy is's ball on the map actually that's the thing right so so this is not like only not even like this is not altered gaml right it's not altered this exactly I mean it is point but not with Minun oh okay well I mean come on who cares about details these days anyway yeah exactly come on like that's like nobody cares about these but it's like it's mostly mostly actually about the whatever is in the game that they are showing in the creatives and that's kind of works super super well oh what oh that's a nice h sh oh wow we looking we are looking at loads of loads

of different ways of zombies oh yes okay so now I zombies ball of zombies yes exactly it looks so epic this looks really good it's really good and obviously all all kind of ends with fail but you know what uh age of Origins let's let's look let's look at these the competitor here the competitor but let's see games that is like what like fourth fifth biggest you know can you can you see the like kind of like where is this coming from yeah it's just like same same thing all over again just again zombies you're killing them and I think it's either do you know what was the game that I thought look oh this looks really interesting and you know there you go now they they're using the zombies they're using

the soldiers different you know from different sides like obviously they're going to die you have the you have the bridge like it's like all there it's all there it's just minor kind of iteration but it's all all there it's just like this is something that works so well well let's see I mean we are we were talking about this so let let me check if I can actually oh some Survivor IO mechanics in it of course that's what I said that's what I said as well like they they really know what they are doing and like the game Survivor IO kind of gameplay really works uh AG of Origins is currently fourth biggest one in the category doing like 20 22 mil a month look mhm do you know like where we where where we where did we see exactly this like a few seconds ago from like last war yeah just then like it kind of ended in the the hyper casual kind of um oh wow world yes yes

exactly but now let's see where's the yeah for those listening we're looking literally at 20 different versions of the same creative from for different games but you see the you see the the the ball of zombies it's exactly there and then you you see this like coming from the left it's again and from the right it's the same [ __ ] thing it's the same [ __ ] thing oh man I I would really like to see like these two UA these two companies UA departments going for like a casual lunch or something like yeah we copied this thing from you it didn't work and yeah we copied the other three guys we also didn't work no but the thing is like what what also haven't mentioned that like the the Chinese companies are really good in Forex like kind of squeezing the most out of the players anding all there is to it like there's no other companies than Asian companies doing in Forex genre okay like if if I if I get it right the

last one in the category is what scopely Star Command Star Trek it's like what like 10th 15th I don't know like somewhere at the end look at this can you can you say like uh like come on [ __ ] same thing it's the same [ __ ] thing just uh it's different era different era right it's like horses and like different weapons yeah sorry medieval Knight shooting mediev yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah catapults and like things like it's it's all there it's just like like we discussed like they're all connected so you know like if if this kind of works in the one other game like they [ __ ] like they they use it in the same again of course look it's the same thing same same it's all all the same thing and then even like the of the hook is there and then the change or the the closeup to these like soldiers and then again like going from left to right the zombies like it's like it's it's it's it's it's brilliant and this is

this is what works and you know where is this coming from I I remember these like Mass battles I I kind of took the inspiration Lord mobile Lords mob Lord it comes back to Lords mobile always they were like really really big um with these like all the hordes from left to right and like Mass battles and obviously just if you know the game or if you know like those creatives like it's it's really coming there maybe dear listeners if you know any very good Western company that we omitted from this review let us know in the slack we would really like to know because I'm missing oh man like this is even here this is actually creat yeah it's really upgraded need to check that at some wow okay so if no let's not go let's go through this Rabbit Hole yeah yeah we'll be here for a long time about this so okay so what do they have uh uh which I

already mentioned kind of it's not actually that many uh many UA channels they're super big on on appin Google then even Facebook which is quite surprising but yeah uh definitely this type of creatives work on Facebook a lot uh but I would maybe how much do you think they're spending daily for like 150k downloads a day on Forex man I still think like the cpis are not as low uh as you would expect but it's not definitely like in within like 30 50 dollar so yeah they're making cannot be it would be too much that'll be too much I would say they're spending at least like 500 to, to 1 million a day mhm at least at least at least so half a meal to one meal a day maybe that's like two conservative to be honest it's like too conservative like there's now maybe

yeah okay well let's let's say conservative tip uh or bet is like 1 mil and maybe a little bit more realistic is what like 2 2.5 uh million a day mhm okay I would say something like because they're still like on the growth trajectory but we still don't see all the sorry we still don't see all the channels because the [ __ ] up like you see with the offline branding in Soul in South Korea TV commercial blah blah blah they're not counted here in Sor Tower so no not lots of span that that we don't see here yep that's true that's true uh but still kind of let's see can they are still growing it's like slowly and steadily going there and if we look at like monthly yeah 51 for February Jesus Christ yeah and it was still like like 29 in January so it's like it's quad like I would say like this maybe even 70 yeah of course it's so yeah interesting to see

like how this we should definitely look it up later during the year how I mean like this is the first time anyone is actually talking about this game which is again us because we're kind of looking at this quite closely but I don't get this why nobody's talking about this like you know much more because it's literally like the biggest game of this year yet if I correctly half of the like March yeah yeah like I'm not counting Monopoly go into the equation but just giving blow drops Monopoly go and not taking care about anything else yeah so could be like the the biggest is definitely the biggest forest team yet look look so we we were talking about white out survival last year and now finally some other people from the gaming industry waking up like oh there is a big gaming you know company Century games from China like hey hey that's all the big Forex companies course yes welcome to to the gaming industry guys

let me let me let me share the screen for one more thing I'm going to for yeah go for it by the way yeah we lost Felix because he's actually work to do yeah yeah yeah so there you go with the Consultants life but yeah there's this other company we got the tip uh do you want to go there or we just wait until we kind of see how it evolves we can just show two screens okay yes okay go yeah yeah yeah so uh without me uh showing you actually what the game is I can just show you how it looks like and and and and you see like oh what are you showing us like there's this pixel IND the game or or whatever is there like like what like what's this like this is like stard valelly or Terraria or whatever so yeah we see other companies doing very very interesting moves in

their you know hidden portfolios like you see here for instance yeah because would you say like this like even remotely is a Forex game like I wouldn't at all and then uh then you have to join Alliance on the right top corner it's like ah maybe maybe it is if we move fast forward a little bit and let me keep the keep the secret not spoiled here it's fine you can spoil it if if we move fast forward like oh hello where's this kind of a map thing going and what are these mechanics and oh there's like deliver queue suddenly something something so yeah it's a Forex it seems and there's like yeah those are all the games that are pretty much currently being done and at some point they will roll into the Western Market and you won't ever know that these games are Forex but they have like you know unlimited spend UPS there have giant onboarding funnels done from these kind

completely different games g on man like you see like how the game looks like as well it's like not going to be that easy yeah it's not going be it's going to be more like in the in the top heroes kind of category because like that that's what we got to keep from like these are these games are going like for the top heroes kind of feel so let's see if if this kind of succeeds but you know it's in the soft Lounge very early on we'll see how it goes sof for like more than a year I of course I mean look it's a massive game it's a massive game it's a massive game and just you know like look at like how long last tour was in the soft lunch right it's like in June like six eight months and it's just and this it was already done in like in a in in a way as a top war so now they took kind of lot lot of learnings from there so yeah but I wouldn't be you know surpris if this this game for instance goes for crossplatform also get slapped to steam or something yeah yeah yeah it look IND the

Trap Yeah so basically what I'm saying like this is a game from one of those companies in the top 10 Forex list yeah uh but you won't see under their name of course because that's the you know the rule with Forex that you never publish game on your own account until it scales yeah so yeah definitely very interesting games are being done and are waiting to kind of enter the Western Market and I think what we'll see for is that we see more of like the proliferation of this trend of on boarding game actually integrated in main game so you basically will be required to build two games one for UA purposes one for the LTV purposes and it will be like that kind feeding each other they feeding each other they're feeding each other but but the main point is that I think this will spread to other genres it's not going to be only Forex as we were already talking about you you remember ex hero and all these like funny things which is like absolute RPG super fantasy core game and

then in everybody's doing it everybody's doing in the west but they're doing it very not in the West in the East yeah but also like man it's in the west already like just on the duct tape version you just duct tape hers it's a duct tape version even even Lily's garden now has like pin pin levels in like in the on boarding like you know save the whatever dream pin whatever but it's just like duct tape bear it's but it's also too late to come on like man like was like when bought shares next which was before that was the time when you used pins now it's too late it's really really too late but now now is the time to build a second game which is the onboarding game and integrated into the main game that's that's the thing you he it here first like nobody's talking about it yeah yeah I mean we were talking about like two years ago and now like now I think it's it's again again more and more kind of uh important because it's going to be mandatory in current UA market like you don't have a plan to kind of do your UA

Shenanigans these days you cannot scale period you cannot scale yeah yeah you you you can go get your IP maybe you like one thing what's great we we're going to definitely talk about this game uh later down the line there is a one game from coming from China obviously which they had in the onboarding first they had the the pimples uh whatever uh and then they changed the pimples for drawing creatives and they just you know switch on boarding like this easy like top four just change change it and then you go like then obviously it's not connected to the gameplay that much but still kind of serves a purpose but you cannot do these things like if you look at last war if they would change the creative suddenly from the gates to something else they would need to completely redesign yeah exactly like half of the game so yeah but the game creative work so well I mean I used the gates creatives like 2018 even they they bet the whole game on the yeah yeah yeah yeah well I mean like you know 60 million a month kind of you know get a

good bench yeah yeah it's a good bench mark H maybe they're right maybe they on something all right all right so I think that's that's that's it uh for us today going to show um well not show but um push this live as soon as we can because we're recording Monday morning which is usually time when we yeah it's 9:00 a.m WIP not 4: a.m. yeah yeah exactly why yob Ying but uh it's also GDC week which means gaming deaths conference again uh and then we kind of pushed even more to G ging that scottage at the end of the end of the week so yeah stay tuned we'll definitely uh keep you posted a second come on and and the teaser for next week is of course we'll be sharing the game we're playing in our slack that there's like 1,00 people plus so if you know want to know the game go there but I'm going to do a little bit teaser it's a game that is very very close to a game that we

already did literally like one to one some of the so you'll see and if you want to talk to us live uh while we kind of record the podcast it's Wednesday 600 p.m. this Wednesday so March 20 600 p.m. which is what like 9 or 10 Pacific I don't know anyway 6 PM C just come to our s Channel we can go discuss it there and then yeah until then see you cheers byebye have a nice day guys bye [Music] [Applause] [Music] bye [Music]