Subnautica 2 Devs Win Day One, ALL CAPS XBOX & Fortnite is Over(watch) | Games For Breakfast

Good morning, Matt. GOOD MORNING, WILL.
TO ALL OF YOU. Welcome to GameSager Breakfast, THE ONLY INTERNET TALK SHOW WE TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK'S GAMING and tech news, but then also I have a disturbing thing that I have to tell everyone right now. There has been a a problem in the great battle that takes place in my living room between Zoe and a giant plant. Uh but I think you'll all be pleased. I don't know if this will Oh, it's not going to key out. I found this this morning. And now Zoe has destroyed one of her one of her one of her nemesi somehow. There are more than of these, but uh as of right now Zoe has done a decisive victory in the battle against the plant and probably found a Korok seed. That seems reasonable. Did she like leave it for you somewhere or did she

just like
She left it like in the front of the She dragged it away from the from the the plant to put it like in the dead center of the living room.
Okay. Uh you know, Vendis here has a really great point. It looks like a free hat. Also free hat.
YEAH, FREE HAT.
I COULD KEEP it like right now it seems like it's working. I'm holding it though. It's not
Yeah, it does make it does go. Yeah, right. Yeah, it doesn't. It's gone. Although Frost is holding it up. We'll leave it here for now. Maybe maybe this will come back in some way later today. Who knows? Yeah, who even who who even knows? Someone had a really great question as we started and I wanted to call it out.
Good morning. Good morning to you Janet over on YouTube, Brad over on Twitch, and of course Rocky over on Nebula. Uh your friendly reminder while Will looks through this comment. Hey, if you're here, don't forget to do the like thing where you hit the little button and the thing arrow goes up and hooray. And also the subscribe button if you happen to not already have hit that over on the YouTube machine. Heck, if you're watching this on Nebula, please click

that follow button so that they you're alerted every time we upload one of these videos to Nebula, to the Extra Credits Live channel over there. Yeah, seems good. Oh, it was a great question. We are talking about the weight of memes. What is the weight limit on memes? And I'm so glad you asked second last. Here's the answer, whatever is funniest at the moment. Much like the way that card game rules work in animes, it's whatever serves the plot right now. So, the weight limit on memes is whatever the writers decide is funniest for this episode. Thank you for your so much for your question. So, right now it's 12 lbs. That's right. And this episode is currently full of about, I don't know, 4 lbs of memes. I mean, the pre-show definitely was. I don't know if we've actually filled the show enough with memes yet.
That's true. We do kind of like In fact, it's it's a little known fact that behind the scenes, during the intro, we take the pre-show bucket of memes and we just dump it out. And we have to start again during the

show. Not wrong. Well, actually, I I don't want to blame the weight of memes for the reason for the next announcement, but just a reminder to all y'all who showed up here nice and early to hanging out waiting for the show to start on YouTube with the pre-show on Twitch. We are going to be moving this show in approximately 1 month from Monday mornings to Friday mornings at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time for the live show and then and a couple hours after the fact over on Nebula for the for the VOD and whatnot. We are doing this not only just because the cost and to weight ratio of memes is actually more prudent uh uh on Fridays rather than Mondays, but that also we just think it's going to be a better fit. I don't know if you've heard us talk about this before, but it'll be a lot more fun to talk about the week's gaming and tech news as opposed to rounding up last week's week gaming and tech news. Yeah. It does It does work for John Oliver. It doesn't work for us. John Oliver has a big team of very cool writers and we have me. So,

I'm not as cool as
And me, but Will does the Will finds the stories. Yeah. Or you actually And this leads us into the other thing. Blue sky us. Blue sky me or Will or the Extra Credits channel to mention essentially what you what stories you want us to cover across the week. Will, do we have that graphic that we can throw up? It's dollar blue sky names.org. There we are. We're right there. TELL US WHAT STORIES YOU'D LIKE us to talk about and if you learn them throughout the week, chances are we'll be able to put them in the show at the end of the week. That's correct. Yeah. All right, Matt. Oh, and my last piece of business. I just have to do a quick shout-out before we get into the main under the sea story this week. Finally, if you watched last week, you'll know that I talked a little bit about the film Mortal Kombat 2 in theaters. The full podcast on the only podcast about movies episode of that is out right now on Art 19 and Nebula and Spotify. Links will be in the description in the show

notes eventually of this and I was also joined not only by Shaheer, but also by Jay mate over from Design Delve and Second Wind to talk all things Mortal Kombat 2 in cinema. So, if you want a very long discussion about the almost flawless victory that was that movie, please go check that out. You're allowed to say it like that? The name of the movie. What? I I thought I thought it was illegal to just say Mortal Kombat. Oh, you want me to scream it?
I know you HAD TO GO MORTAL [screaming] KOMBAT! NOT CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED.
NO, that's like important. That's like an important part
is important. Okay. All right, great. Excellent. Speaking [snorts] of flawless victories and liquids. Liquid. Subnautica 2.
WOW. WHAT? WHAT A BANGER. SO, we've

we've been following this story off and on, mostly on, since it [laughter] I just like that. I just like What if we're following it? We've been following this story off. Listen, just right off screen. Um so, I We've been following this since the initial lawsuit between Unknown Worlds and Krafton dropped and there was a whole bunch of nonsense. And now, we have finally hit the day of reckoning. Well, the day of reckoning for Krafton's wallet at least, because Subnautica 2 launched in early access last Thursday and immediately did all of the numbers that Unknown Worlds said it was going to do and Krafton was like, "No, it's not going to do those numbers. You need a better game." And Unknown Worlds was like, "Mm, pretty sure the game's good. Pretty sure we're going to release it." And Krafton was like, "No, we don't think it's good." The judge was like, "Krafton, you got to shut up." And then Subnautica 2 released and did a million copies in the first like couple

hours. Insane. Insane. And what a um What a great We don't
[gasps]
We don't get a lot of wins here. But, if you remember, if you've been watching the show for a bit, uh we kind of went back and forth on this entire thing. Of course, we have the um Uh
[clears throat]
look, we often do go a lot on vibes on this show and Krafton's vibes were, I'll just say, even throughout the course of this story, less than immaculate. However, you never know. And we tried to be as fair uh to the story as possible, putting out new information over the course of the weeks and months as this thing went on, because when you're getting drip-fed information, particularly um and meticulously uh drip-fed in various ways from various people, it's hard to sometimes get a good bead on exactly what's going on, which is why we kind of I I think until maybe a couple even months ago, we weren't like fully on board of like at

least where our opinion was of where this would land. Yeah.
Um There was There was Well, okay, so there were a couple of things that sort of like shifted it, right?
Um one of them was uh when when they went to Discovery for the lawsuit. Cuz okay, so so for anyone who who doesn't Yeah, I mean, amazing. Amazing work.
For For anyone who's never uh heard of the way that this works, this is how it works. So, lawsuit works like this, and oh god, legal legal, forgive me. This is going to be the most gross oversimplification. Lawsuit. I'm suing you because I accuse you of having done a thing. And they go, we did not do thing. And they go, I say you did thing. Judge, please do do accept lawsuit.
Determine if thing was done. Determine if thing was done. And judge says, okay, we will determine if thing was done. As part of this process,

both sides have to give everybody involved a whole bunch of information in what's called discovery, where you have to turn over like all of your like the relevant emails and financial documents and communications and any kind of record that exists. Like Slack messages. Like Slack messages between the CEO of Krafton and some other folks that he was real keen on using chat GPT to find a way to do an illegal. Well, so here's here's the thing. Uh we we should even back up a little bit further, I think. Essentially, the deal was when Krafton got I'm blanking on the actual Subnautica dev's name. I'm so sorry. On something Unknown Worlds, thank you. When they when they basically put them under their umbrella, part of the deal was Subnautica 2 had to hit a certain number of milestones, sales, etc. before a certain date. And part of the deal for acquisition was

there would be a $250 million bonus paid out to the entire team who made Subnautica 2 if they were to hit these deadlines. Yes. When it became very clear after a while that the team was going to hit these deadlines, one of the people over at Krafton decided to essentially not only use ChatGPT to ask it to formulate a plan to get out of the contractual bonus that they made up, mind you. And and had everyone sign. Krafton didn't get like tricked into doing this. They just made a really bad like buying Twitter level play. And the
[laughter]
And so they asked ChatGPT how to get out and around it and the some of the plans they came up with involved firing the three people in charge of Worlds, right? Like
Yeah. the And that was then brought to

court because they were thinking that essentially it was going to be because the they were trying to get out of this bonus. Turns out it was because in discovery, as Will said, it turns out that there were Slack messages of these people talking about how they were asking ChatGPT on how to solve this issue and get themselves out of the hole that they dug in. And essentially, all ChatGPT knows how to do is throw more shovels into holes. Right. So so it should also be noted two things. One, Oh, yeah. One, the Yeah. ChatGPT originally said it was a bad idea and only suggested this when pressed, which impressive as hell, uh that we found a case in which chat GPT won't immediately leap to lying or gaslighting or yeah, encouraging you to do stupid things. Um and then second, a reminder that he ran this by legal. The CEO of the company ran this plan by legal and legal said that's so unbelievably stupid, don't do it. And he went, "Well, what if I'm going to do

it?" And legal said, "Don't do it." And he said, "I already did it." And that was how it worked. So, I Listen, listen. I can understand typing something into a chat GPT and being like, "I'm not listening to this. Give me the thing." Cuz you're not paying chat GPT. Or if you are, then you're a whole 'nother level of stupid. But, the the then having your legal team, who you are paying, to say, "Hey, this is a bad idea." Don't And then not listen to your legal team that is under your employ. Right. You paid a legal team a bunch of money. You are a publisher. You pay a big legal department a bunch of money to do contract law stuff, because that's a huge amount of what a publisher does. Publisher does contracts with developers, publisher does contract for advertising, and contracts with like distribution partners, and printing, and all kinds of stuff. Like, a publisher is essentially just a giant legal department and a giant marketing

department. Like, that's it. And you didn't listen to your giant, very expensive legal department? Like, bro. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how big the legal department is, but either way, you're paying them. Yeah. Uh it's uh Yeah, I I cannot Nice, Andrew. Nice. Looks [laughter] like Grab got caught here.
SUNK COST. YEAH.
[screaming]
UM YEAH. YEAH. UH I I THINK what gets me the most here is in no world was this offer of the bonus from Krafton for signing remotely a good idea. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and you can see the people at Unknown Worlds just being like, Okay.
[laughter]
Right. Give us more money for the thing we're pretty confident we were going to do anyway. Yeah, I I I I don't I don't know. I

don't know, man. Um, and look, I I I hope I and nothing has been paid out yet, nothing is whatever, but they're well on their way. This seems like it it should be from at least how the case is now, and I'm sure they'll be legal proceedings to fight it or some other thing later down the line, but the overwhelming popularity of Subnautica 2's release uh, does paint a picture that even the arguments for holding the game longer than that so they wouldn't get the payout were cuz Krafton's argument was that the the the Unknown Worlds devs were trying to rush it out unfinished to get the payout, and it would damage the the sales of the game. As illustrated by selling a million copies on day one three or two days after the full game got leaked on pirate sites. Yeah, the whole game got leaked

and pirated to kingdom come, and then a bunch of people I I firmly believe that a bunch of people who pirated the game went, "Oh, hey, this is this is actually pretty good. Maybe maybe I should buy it."
Tyler, cuz I have not I have not yet played Subnautica 2. Do we know anyone in chat? Do you actually Emily was playing they were playing it earlier today. Do does is is 1 required reading? I actually don't know the answer to that question. Yeah. Yeah, it was the first million in like the first day and then another 2 million in the next two. Like they have they have sold the current estimates and and and Unknown Worlds normally wouldn't well, normally developers release milestone figures. So, we'll probably get like the millions. Um, the current estimate on uh, Steam DB for Subnautica 2 is between 1.91 and 3.39 million uh, based on concurrent player data. Uh, all-time peak of 467,582 with a 24-hour peak of 321,704.

And right now, there are 193,284 people playing the game.
And also to to be noted, Subnautica 1 is a complete game and Subnautica 2 is not. This is still is it still technically early access right now? Yeah, it Yeah. This is early access release. There are there are places that are unfinished. There are parts where like you will swim out and it will say, "Hey, turn back. There be monsters." And if you keep swimming the way that the game keeps you out of an unfinished area is it summons sharks that eat you. Like that's just how the game works and that's fine. Yeah. And apparently Medusa says, "What I heard from folks I know, Subnautica 2 is off to a better early start than early access than Subnautica 1 was at the same place of release." Yeah, because that's the the style like that's kind of Yeah. It seems like the style of this team knows how to do, which is totally fine. Yep. And uh, the there is a road map. They are they they to to the developers of Crafting, not the not the excuse me, not the developers of Crafting. To the developers at Unknown Worlds that aren't part of this corporate back and forth,

right? There's a bunch of people who have been keeping their heads down like just making a good game. Like that's that's that like they don't I I feel like that often gets lost in the sauce when we talk about like developers fighting publishers. It sounds like everyone at the developer is fighting the publisher like all the time with both hands. No, there's like a handful of people who are engaged in this, right? And they're generally big figureheads. And again, two legal departments fighting it out. Um And there are a bunch of developers who have been keeping their heads down and just
[clears throat]
making a great game. And it shows. Uh it's 90% positive on Steam. Uh I have heard pretty much universal acclaim for it. And selling more than 2 million copies already is a very good sign. Yeah. Uh now, uh was the game leaked by the CEO hoping to tank the sales numbers? No, there's no there's no uh evidence of that whatsoever. But it is interesting

that that's exactly where my mind went to and then I started digging for that just in case. But like it it there's no proof of that whatsoever. But the There are
the precedent of activity from the folks at Krafton would make it seem like that would be another type of thing they asked an AI if this would work. Yeah. Right? Like It should also be noted that the answer is no. Yeah, that there are several games that have leaked in recent memory. This is not the only one. This is not an isolated incident. Um the Lego Batman game and I believe a Forza game. There was one other big one. Uh all leaked recently. And so this is more likely connected to that than it is connected to Krafton CEO being um inordinately in favor of the cereal Cocoa Puffs. Right. Uh Yeah. I don't know. I I I'm glad that the devs of this game uh had a incredible win and release. And it

seems like even you know, even on the off times when the devs get a win on something like this, so rare is there truly a both public win and a hopefully upcoming monetary win. That would I like because $250 million split between the team and I know that the CEO is going to a larger chunk of that of Unknown Worlds and all that stuff. But I think there was a breakdown that I saw and I'm trying to remember where it was of like it's still like a near life-changing amount of money for everyone who worked on the game.
Yeah. And that is that's a type of win you do not get to see often here. Um And that's great.
And Jeff and I talked about this a bit last week on Design Club. We did like a sliders episode where we talked a bunch about a bunch of little stuff like a sampler platter sort of. Not the show the burger and if you're not from the East Coast of the US apparently no one knows what those are. No one knows what sliders

are?
Yeah. That was the biggest piece of feedback was that nobody knew what sliders were. WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT A SLIDER IS? And I'm not talking about the TV show. I'm talking about the food, the smaller food of another larger kind of food. I need to know this. I'm You keep talking Will and we're going to come back to it.
Awesome. So Jeff pointed out that this is while this is shaping up to be a win, we should not neglect the fact that there are definitely devs who burned out. Like this definitely burned devs out and the industry is a poorer place for this even if Unknown Worlds gets everything they were promised and more, the industry has been damaged by this because we will have lost developers to burnout. Sure. Right? Like and that those developers because they left due to burnout and they not get the payout which is like the biggest injustice in my mind but there's nothing to be done about that.
Well, maybe there is, right? There could be and if and if the Unknown Worlds

folks want the good press to keep running, there is no reason or I'm I'm sure it would be odd if there was a reason uh to not divvy out something to those people regardless from one of the larger parts of that fund. Like you want goodwill forever? That that That also, if you're one of the like top three earners of this $250 million payout that you'll never ever ever even notice but could change someone's life. Yeah. Just do it. Yeah. Like yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, uh chat um has has many feelings. I like I like this one. Americans would describing their food culture. So, imagine burger but small. It's so funny because normally Americans describing their food culture would be like imagine burger but big. Yeah. Except now we're backsliding into a recession. But regardless Wee! Wee! Now every burger is a slider.

Um Yeah, I don't know. I Yes, the the the actual burnout and the and the cost there is is also very real. But so many times in these stories that burnout is also there and nobody wins. Yeah, that's true. That that is true. Yes, absolutely 100%. That's that's uh why I kind of I don't know. I just I I I was not expecting the story to go this direction and and and I'm so happy that it did. Yep. I'm I'm I'm very pleased. So, here here's to you Unknown Worlds on your on your successful launch and I'm a fan. I'm so happy that this doesn't key out. Doesn't this look like a green that wouldn't work? It's It's a little too deep a green. And we I've got your I've got your key dialed in pretty tight. Keep going. No, I have a thing. I'm

going to see if I can do something.
Imagine. Imagine that I've done this for a while. Okay. All right. Well, this is this is this is where we are. Yeah, I'm sure every green's going to key out a little, but also it mostly keys out around the edges. So. Yeah, it didn't work. I mean, you kind of got like a leaf halo. Yeah, I don't know if I want it. Okay. Anyway, uh so that's that's the update on Subnautica 2. Congratulations to the Unknown Worlds devs. Uh Krafton pay up. Do it. You won't, cowards. Uh we will look forward to seeing the inevitable legal action when Krafton doesn't pay up um because that's the logical next step here. Unfortunately. So, we'll we'll we'll find out. Um people are asking, are we going to stream Subnautica 2? Maybe. Maybe. But there's a lot of other stuff going on. Part of the problem and and we're going to be talking about this on Thursday. I know I promised this three times now, but I promise we're actually

talking about the discovery problem this week on Design Club. Uh we got our schedules in order. There were some scheduling conflicts multiple weeks in a row, but I finally got them all sorted out and we're going to do it this week. Um with all of the games coming out, how do you make time for this? And as a Twitch streamer, how do you stand out among all of the people playing Subnautica 2? Right.
which, you know, difficult.
Maybe more plants. Yes, that's it. Yep. Uh-huh. Uh so, yeah, everyone and their mother is streaming Subnautica 2 is exactly correct. So, um we'll we'll see.
streaming Subnautica 2? Yeah, right. Woah.
Um so, we will we'll we'll keep it in mind, but it's a probably a no, especially because uh my my next game that I'm very excited for is coming out this Wednesday and I'll be streaming that. It's Rogue Core. Deep Rock Galactic, give me your best rock and stone because that's that's what we're streaming on Wednesday. I'm very excited.
Nice. Man, that birthday stream was

nuts. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Uh okay. Uh next up, in other news about making fun of corporations for not understanding how money works. Nah. Do we have two wins in a row today? Is this What is today?
Yeah, okay. So So brief refresher. Okay, GameStop said, "Hey eBay, we want to buy you for 55 and 1/2 billion dollars." Hey. Hey, listen. I'm really serious. Hey. I'm I'm so serious. I'm going to sell stuff on eBay to help pay for buying [snorts] eBay. It's an infinite money glitch. That's right. And Woo! WHO GOT JAGER BOMBS?
[laughter]
AND TO BE TO BE CLEAR, THE CEO of GameStop got his eBay account suspended for shady dealings as he was attempting to raise the 55 billion dollars on eBay by selling collectible cards and a pair of sneakers and some other stuff. He

also like made and this is this is how you know you've lost the plot. When the when the fake money go back and watch the episode I think two or three weeks ago. It's the one with this almost thumbnail on it if you're interested in the deep dive of the story. But when the monetary offer that was very very made up came in and that did not entice eBay. The CEO of GameStop made like an emotional plea to buy eBay? YEAH. I DON'T HAS THAT worked
[laughter]
like ever? Like is this a Christmas Carol but with CEOs? Like [laughter] what? I don't know, man.
you three ghosts of of insider trading did not visit the CEO of GameStop before this whole thing went down. Um I I I I want to read the quote because the quote of the rejection is so good.

Yeah. Uh oh yeah. Uh after reviewing GameStop's proposition, this comes to us from CNN. eBay board had concluded that the proposal was, quote, "Neither credible nor attractive."
[laughter]
That's how you never go to parties again. Imagine you're at a party and you're like trying to impress someone that you think is cute and they come fire back with, "I find you neither credible nor attractive." That's how you go home and you never go to parties again. That's like never show your face in public again. That's like move, change your name, and grow a mustache levels of like I Okay, we're we're we're we're dunking on eBay here and rightfully so. Uh a lot of a lot of boneheaded decisions and it's now a business that is propped up by meme stock and that is a dangerous position and the CEO is trying to I think get out of that position because it's probably not going to last forever.

Correct. Okay. Let's be Let's try to be helpful for once in our miserable lives. Why would we do that? That's not funny. And I I would like chat, both Brad and Janet, uh live stuff on on YouTube and Twitch and if you're watching this on Nebula, write us in on Blue Sky. What could a legitimate This isn't a wrong answers only thing. Like I'm actually interested in seeing like what would be in 2026 at the state of the gaming industry and GameStop, what would be a profitable way for GameStop to move forward? Now, I will caveat this question as the answers sort of start coming in. I don't think there is a way for GameStop to make all of the money. I just don't because that at the end of the day is near impossible no matter how many times people try to chase it. I'm saying become a sustainable business that actually functions and serves a

a need of the public while also making some of the money. Um Will, do you have any ideas or do you want cat cat cat bird? No. No. No. But very funny, but no. Um I yeah. I I I think the biggest one is um they need to invest some amount of money in making their stores attractive again cuz they're not. Mhm. The the image of the stores sucks. Uh and they also need to expand into all forms of gaming more readily. Right? They need to try and take on the local the FLGS and not just like other stuff. They have physical locations which means that all kinds of physical products, right? Pokémon, Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh. Uh D and D RPG books, you know, board games, all of the stuff. Right? They

need to they need to expand out into something else because uh as we'll talk about later, physical games not it anymore. Amazing. Um Well, physical physical video games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Physical video games, excuse me. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and it's funny like everyone's kind of saying the same thing and kind of what you were saying and what I was going to say things. Oh, this is actually good too Ramian like this might be, you know, having a mix of collectibles I think would be good rather than just like whatever loot crate has from 2019. Yeah.
Um branch out into tabletop gaming. Yep.
Uh go the Barnes & Noble model, cultivate stores where people get excited to go talk games and get good recommendations.
Yep. Um Like local gaming board games tournaments etc. Core and retro games. Happy fuzzy silver metal try.
[laughter]

Let's see. I'm just scrolling through a lot of them.
Oh, I like I like Medusa's become a center for local e-sports. Well, yeah, like so there's a lot like and Become a place that there is a reason to go besides spending money. And that's how you get people to spend money. I guess that yes. I mean that's that's the core of it and and that model we know does not make all the money and would not be sustainable for the branches that it does, right? Like but you could still become something that is smaller and beloved I guess than a large husk of a thing that people once really liked and now is just a joke. Yeah. So, lots of people are talking about their FLGS's. I encourage you to remember that those are not the standard. Right? Like there are big swaths of places that don't have those, right? Like I have an unfriendly local game

store. As an example, right? Like I have a get your crap and get out store. I don't have a place to go and play games. And the FLGS has been unreceptive to the idea that they would resume being a place to play games, right? So, as an example, I I think it is easy to forget that you can do like both and that this would serve more places than like just yours. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I think I and actually Gloom has the ultimate answer which is both a joke and true. Got a got a store cat. Yep, it's correct.
a store cat, that instantly ups your foot traffic by probably like 5%, so you're already you're doing something right. Yep. Yeah, I um it'd be really nice to like actually it's funny. I was home for the weekend for Memorial for my grandfather and we ended up going

shopping to this place that's like a consignment shop where I like actually my coffee tables from there that I got in college. It's a great consignment shop in New Hampshire. And uh but what I remember about it more than anything else was it was in front of an arcade. And I I there's no way a traditional arcade models are ever going to come back. Like that's just I think that's sort of out of the out of the zeitgeist, but there is something like the conglomeration of arcade culture and friendly local game store culture, like there's there has to be some sort of synergy there one way or the other, right? Like the or or even like I know it's a chain, I just don't know if it's outside of New York City. I imagine it is Barcade. Or I'm sure there's other places called Barcade.
there are yeah, it's I have heard it as a barcade like a kind of a place rather than a specific chain. Like if you combined like and I'm not saying I want,

you know, GameStop as is to get into food service or anything like that, but like something that turns it more into like a cafe that also has games, that also has events, that also has places you can sit down and play magic, that also maybe has a series of couches and and consoles and stuff where you can just like play games and hang out. Like that would move product. And again, that's not easy to manage. It's a different business model, but it would be something that I don't know, would get you some goodwill and it would be a difficult thing and a challenge like it'd be it'd be a fun challenge, I imagine. Yeah. I don't know. Yep. Anyway, thank you everybody for all the It's funny, we all kind of went to the same place. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. All right. Uh speaking of gaming business decisions that no one saw coming. I'm going to steal uh something that CompSci said last night. Hey, look everyone, it's overnight

FortWatch. Yay. So, if you look at this picture, you might think, "Wow, that's just Overwatch." And you'd be wrong, because this is actually a picture of Fortnite. So, Overwatch is coming to Fortnite.
It's already here. It's here. Yeah, is is in Fortnite. So, I don't have a problem with this at all.
either. I just think it's weird.
It's weird, but also, you know what I do have a problem with? Cuz this is a This is going to be I think they're saying that like the bundle for this is going to be like the most expensive Fortnite bundle ever. It's It's just like like these are two huge properties coming together. I would want a little more And one of the properties that is No, both properties are known for beautiful, large-scale uh announcement videos.

Yeah, all games are become all game. All praise game. Praise all game. Praise game. Um I don't know if you watched, Will, the the like announcement video for this. No. It's not It's fine, but then they have like uh Tracer, D.Va, and Mercy all say their catchphrases, but they're definitely just the audio pulls from the game and they don't make sense. Like like except Mercy's kind of does and then Diva just says Nerf this but like for no reason. She's not doing anything and I'm like what is Is it just reference the show the game the movie like is it Yes. I And so it's actually Cat it's not just skins. Oops sorry I had you up there. Um Apparently there are abilities and things that they have. There is a tracer rewind function that I think knocks you

into first person which apparently is very very cool. Yeah there is a yeah so when you use Tracer's pistols you can go first person and you do have a rewind function. Um and like Mercy has a healing staff or a boost staff and like they're like the functionality of the weapons and characters is present. And and it's I don't know it just feels so weird to me that like we have I guess okay. I have a thought after this thought. Yeah it it feels weird to me only because this feels like Coke doing a crossover with Pepsi right? Which like sure you could do that and it would probably be good for consumers but like it also feels weird man. Like it's there's nothing wrong with it. It just feels weird. Like you're like now with Pepsi flavored Coke and you're like I

DON'T KNOW WHAT TO do with this thing. It's weird. I'm not opposed to it. I'll try it but what? Right?
So so what this says to me and again I again not the the the target audience for this, so maybe it's fine. This to me, based exactly on what Will says, says about Fortnite, "We've run out of ideas." Now, if they have they've had an excellent run of ideas and IP to come through. Like everything cannot be innovative innovative and everything new forever. Like it just can't be. But this sort of this is this feels like an end move. Um because Overwatch and Fortnite are not the same game. But mechanically

kind of [clears throat] what you do in a micro moment-to-moment basis is pretty similar. Like there's a there's a novelty to seeing IP like K-pop Demon Hunters or Mortal Kombat or Superman, even though I hate that they have them carrying a gun. Like there's a novelty to seeing that ridiculousness thrown into here, but to have Overwatch characters come in and essentially do what Overwatch characters do in Overwatch, like even even John Wick, the crossover they did with John Wick, feels correct because John Wick is a movie where he shoots a bunch of people and this is a game where you shoot a bunch of people. So throwing John Wick in that it's it's an adaptation of putting John Wick into this different medium. This is taking the same mechanic into the same medium and skinning it. Yeah. That yes. Yeah,

right. Very right. And again, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT MAD at it. Right. So
But it feels bad because it feels like the last idea. Right. Right. So okay, so so here's the example. John Wick and Fortnite is Coke and Oreos. And they that Oreo flavored Coke thing and that Coke flavored Oreo thing, right? And like, okay. Not really for me, but novel and interesting and weird and a weird way to mash up those two things that don't normally go together. Okay, I get it, right? And so that feels different than this, which is like, "Hey, we combined weird drink flavors like a kid does when they like go down the like if you've ever done this where you like you take the
a graveyard. Yes, I have. Yeah, right. You just you do the graveyard thing, right? And like, that's what it feels like. Right? Cuz cuz it feels it feels uninspired, I guess. Right? Even if the team in charge of implementing, by all accounts, has done an excellent job because

according to everyone I've seen talk about it, the gameplay of playing these four uh Overwatch heroes and using their unique mechanics in Fortnite feels dope. Right? Because it feels fresh and different and new and interesting. And they are also making a bunch of changes to Fortnite at the same time.
Around it. They've they've eliminated um you can no longer die from fall damage. You can take a bunch of damage, but you won't die. It's a percentage of your health or something like that.
down to minimum one and um in no build mode, you now start with a pistol instead of with nothing, which is kind of interesting.
sense.
Yeah. So, like they're also overhauling gameplay features at the same time, which is kind of getting mixed up in all of this, but so to be clear, this is all conceptual thing. This is not a criticism of the what they've actually done. It's just conceptually weird. Right. That that I think that's my point. The the oddity here is this seems as though it's making the community incredibly happy. Yeah. Which is great,

but perhaps your two internet dads here who don't actively play Fortnite are just sort of seeing this and being like, "Are we in the end times?" Right.
Maybe we're maybe that feeling is wrong. We've tried to play Fortnite before. We never got out of the part where you're playing against all bots for the entire match. Oh yeah, we slayed. We did so well against all the fake bots. Yeah. Um But, yeah.
I I think Dark Wolf also has a really a really interesting other point, too, that really helps cement what I was thinking, and I didn't think of this, right? [laughter] The idea of buying Overwatch characters when I can just play them for free in the actual game is kind of insane. Yeah. That That is another thing, right? So, we've got the most expensive Fortnite ever for characters you get in for free, in a free-to-play game. Yeah. No, we definitely are Principal Skinnering here, I think, a bit, but like, I I think we're more likely to blame ourselves than Skinner is, [laughter] TO

BE FAIR.
1,000%. I mean, I I like reflecting on this stuff, right? Like, actually, you know what? Show of hands, most people here that are maybe younger than us? I I think a fair chunk of our audience is younger than us. That's why we're the dads. Is Is any like Who is By a show of thumbs up and thumbs down emotes, let's just make it real simple. Who's psyched for this, and who is like I just like a a loosey-goosey scroll-by poll. Yeah.
[laughter]
Like disfunc steak. It's the closest Overwatch will get to a good story mode. I know, right? Uh What are our ages again? Classified. Yeah, redacted. Most people don't care. That's interesting. Yeah, these are going by, and it's a lot of shrugs. Yeah. Or meh. Okay, so okay, interesting.

I also think that our audience skews far enough away from Fortnite, like Yeah.
that that like it's it's not it's not really the like we're not in the target demo for Fortnite either, so
we're in the target demo for discussing the machinations of companies that would do a crossover like this, right? Like that's kind of the I like I really like Trans Blue Bricks. I HAVE NO STRONG OPINIONS EITHER WAY. YEAH, RIGHT.
[laughter]
If you see my wife, tell her I said hello. Uh [clears throat] actually, Trans Blue Blue Bricks, that is you have just unlocked a super secret transitional uh phrase. Because you I don't know if you noticed, but you did write I'm going to put it back up on the screen. You wrote this if I can. Can I? There it is. You wrote this in all caps, which means you've unlocked our secret story meet THE NEW XBOX. RIGHT. So so now now

everyone remember, WHEN YOU SAY XBOX, YOU HAVE to say it really loudly and like you really mean it. It's in all caps all the time. Have you heard the good news of our lord and savior Xbox? Right. Yeah, right. Okay.
[snorts]
Yeah. Um so
[laughter]
Is it TIME TO GET XBOX? SO
[laughter]
I'M SORRY. XBOX TURN OFF. The one person watching us on an Xbox on YouTube right now just gone. Okay. So
[clears throat]
Xbox is making moves lately. So okay. So so this gets even weirder. So we've been talking a lot about the decisions that Ashley Scharff has been making as she like cements

herself as the new CEO of Xbox. And she's had a bunch of ideas and a bunch of things that she's done and changed and like we talked a bit about how she's pulling the co-pilot program out of Xbox and I think that's a good one. She mentioned like she said the quiet part out loud that people weren't valuing Game Pass anymore and we'll talk a little bit about that a little later. But so she put up a poll on Twitter on the 13th and it was Xbox with the normal lowercase or Xbox
X yeah capital X lowercase b o x or all capital letters in caps. Right. And that one won. And then they rebranded the Twitter account and potentially some other stuff as all caps Xbox. Which look it this could just be a cute little thing like it could not be changing at all but the internet has latched on to this. Right. Yeah, I think this is just like I mean it's working, right? We're talking about Xbox for no reason other than they changed the capitalization of their name but it's really funny. So

good job. I think I think it's just another way to sort of and I think this is a good good move on her part like stay in the news cycle. Keep talking about Xbox. Well, I have a feeling in the coming months we're going to be talking about Steam a lot with their machine. Yeah.
Uh and so while we're waiting through that do some Twitter polls and change your social media handles and capitalize all your stuff. Yep. I I like this one. Woah. My brain melted a little when I read that. Woah. That's like a gamer tag from like 2012. That's [laughter] the gamer tag that middle school me would have been like that's SO SICK. LOOK AT ALL THOSE X'S. WOAH.
COOL. YEAH. I I think um it's just an interesting like aside. This is like an interesting little palate cleanser story that we we thought we'd bring up cuz it's it's and amusing. Jay, actions do speak louder than words unless those

words are WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS. ALL CAPS, XBOX. YEP. UM Did
[laughter]
you Did you mean Cross B O Cross? Wow, this is everyone is going real See, this is this is why it's great, right? Cuz like someone mentioned, is this a successful how do you do, fellow kids? It might be. Yeah. But it's real good. Like it cost them virtually nothing. And it's funny and it's bringing people joy and like laughter at their expense maybe, but they are being talked about, right? This is sort of like an all press is good press thing in some ways.
and it's it's also an incredibly low lift. Yeah. Right, like this is a thing that unless they're doing like active like changing the boxes of that the Xbox is coming in, which I don't think they are at least yet, I don't know. Yeah. Uh I think it's totally it's totally just sort of a win-win funny silly thing while we're

waiting for some actual news on project uh project Helix. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that is an excellent spot for us to take a brief commercial break Sure.
before we head on for the second half of our Xbox-related stories. So, uh Brad is going to get ad for 3 minutes of ads for things that they can buy with their actual money, but like none of them are going to be good. Let's be really honest, they're Twitch ads, they're not going to be good. What if it's the best thing ever? And if you don't want to see those ads, you can throw us your Twitch Prime or subscribe or whatever. But everyone else who's not on Brad, aka Janet, and definitely Rocky, cuz you don't get ads over on Nebula, um you will get to see us fake sell you things that you definitely can't spend real dollars to buy for the next 3 minutes. So, please uh look forward to that, and Brad, we'll see you in just 3 minutes. Hooray! Will, would you like to go first or would you like me to go first? Um I got it. I got it. I got it. Okay.

Hi there everyone. Will from Extra Credits with Matt from Extra Credits, but I'm Will from Extra Credits, not Matt from Extra Credits, here to sell you Turn your Sticky Keys off. No. No, actually, you got to you got to press it five times and then you turn Sticky Keys off in Windows so that you stop typing in all caps. It's not Caps Lock. It's It's Sticky Keys. You have to Yeah, you have to turn it off so you can stop [music] typing in all caps. No, that's that's really Yeah. No. No, not like that. You got to like No. No, you You don't turn the keyboard over. You got to You got to press it a bunch and then you get the little beep and then you say no [music] or you can go look for Sticky Keys, but but turn your Sticky Keys off.
[laughter]
Okay. All right. All right. I think Hold on. Hold on. By show of hands, how many of you actually know what Sticky Keys is? Just curious. Anyway.
[laughter]

Okay. Chad knows. I didn't completely miss my target audience. Great. Excellent.
Okay. Here we go. Mystic, thanks for the prime. Hey everyone. Matt from Extra Credits here following up Will from Extra Credits over there giving his first thing that you can't buy talking about Sticky Keys, but what I'm going to sell you is something that not only ties into exactly what Will is trying to not sell you, but also completely does not. I'm going to sell you the concept of trying to sell you something that you don't know if the audience knows what you're saying. So for instance, if I was to say try to sell you a Flabbeldoo and I was like, "Oh, you got to make sure your Flabbeldoos are watered every 12 plovarks." [music] That means that you have to do it or else your Flabbeldoo will never get plovark plus and then you're never going to get the promised streaming service that you really want. So, buy that, please. If you smell toast, it's not just you.
That was like a two of 10. I didn't like that. What else can I do? No. I didn't like that one. I didn't like that one.

Plant. Hi, it's me trying for a redemption arc. Have you ever wanted to buy plant? Well, now I can sell you this plant. Technically, this is plant-adjacent. It's not connected to rest of plant. However, I will say [music] that our my scientists are hard at work to figure out if you can take that part of plant and put it back into other part of plant to make plant bigger plant. If not, no problem. Plant also works as hat. Plant also works as fan. Plant also WORKS AS FOOD. YUM. SO, PLEASE TRY PLANT NOW. THAT WAS BETTER. THAT WAS BETTER. It's like a four out of 10. I'm not doing well today. No, no, I feel like it part of the problem is we used a bunch of our funnies on the all caps Xbox thing. I guess. Yeah. Okay, great. INDUSTRY PLANT CONFIRMED.
[laughter]

ODIN'S THE REAL MVP. ODIN JUST BROUGHT my bid up to a six. Yeah. All right. Yeah, okay, cool. All right. So,
Dark Wolf should put googly eyes on the plant and name it planty mc plant face.
[laughter]
Old heads will remember Toasty McBoatface is a real one. Yeah. Uh Toasty McBoatface is the name of the toaster that's in the open, uh by the way. All right.
Real toaster. Yeah, real toaster. Um okay. So, Xbox, in addition to rebranding in all caps, has made a decision that I think is rather interesting, uh and I wanted to talk about it. Xbox has decided that they're going to bail out Discord. And and now hear hear me out. That's not what they said, but that's what they're doing. Go on. I don't know if I agree with this, but I'm curious where you're going.
Okay, so Xbox Game Pass now includes Discord Nitro. Or Discord Nitro now includes Xbox Game Pass. It works both ways.

Okay. And the reason I think this is Xbox bailing Discord out is A, Microsoft is an investor in Discord. They did throw them a bunch of money at some point. And Discord declined to get bought by them, but Discord is trying to get an IPO. And the other one is that there are two products, one of which is perceived as being a value, and the other one is not. Because when we we did a short when Discord announced their plans to start scanning people's faces to verify their ages. Okay, cool, great, awesome. The number and and in that short we suggested that the best way that you could send a message to Discord that you did not want them to do this was to cancel your Nitro right now. Cancel it. Okay? And the number one response we got on that video was, "I don't have Nitro. I don't know why anyone would pay for it to begin with." And that was for for a

short with a million and a half views, that was an endlessly repeated refrain that people did not value the product that Discord was offering. I value it because I'm on Discord too much. From the moment I wake up, I wake up and check Discord. And the last thing I do before I go to bed is I'm scrolling through Discords, reading what people have said, and then I throw my phone onto the other side of my bed, and I go to sleep. Right? I'm on Discord way too much. So it does have some value to me as a way to express myself, and because I support a place that I spend all my time. Um but lots of people said it wasn't valuable or wasn't worth buying. So, if you have one thing that people say isn't worth buying and a thing that more people say is worth buying, it feels like there is an uneven power dynamic here and that Xbox is taking a risk and bailing Discord out by allowing them to bundle Game Pass. And by the way, this is at a loss, right? Well, so okay. I

think this is actually Yeah, they're splitting it. I think that this is a way to bail out both of them. I don't think this is just Microsoft being like, here's a lot. And obviously Microsoft has more money than Discord. From a so a financial bailout, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But you if you have Nitro, you now get the lowest tier Xbox Game Pass, which essentially does two things. One, if the face scan nonsense knocked you off course with Discord or if you just never saw the value of Nitro, here's a value or here's a goodwill thing to get you to come back, right? Um so, that's good for Discord. For Microsoft, it's good because it is essentially giving a larger element of people access to the lowest tier of Game Pass instantly if you have Nitro. Therefore, if you like Game Pass and I I I have not

been on the lowest tier of Game Pass, but I'm guessing it's like the lowest tier of any service where it probably shows you all of the games, but you can only access some of the games. And then if you want to play day one, whatever the heck, uh you have to then upgrade your thing. So, all this is doing for for and I think this is why it's very, very helpful for Microsoft, it's taking a already devalued thing that people might not maybe the only story they've heard is Xbox Game Pass is too expensive. And now it comes free, cool. But all they've done is essentially inserted a storefront into the Discord you're paying for. You do get free stuff. There are free samples. You coming in the lowest tier of the Xbox Game Pass. No doubt there is value to be had there. But this does feel like moving an ice cream store into another store and saying, "Hey, all the free samples that you want, up to a point. But hey, check

out over here where we got all the really tasty stuff. That's going to cost you." Where they didn't have that advertising space beforehand. So this is a great move I think for both parties. I think I think they're both doing a decent amount of bail work here. Yeah. Joe J asked great question, which one cost less? They cost the same. They both cost $10 a month. So if they're splitting it, they're both getting $5 a month now instead of I don't know. But that I mean, who knows what the split is, but Yeah, it it feels odd to me, right? That both of them are $10 a month. That's not true of all locations. I've heard from some folks in the EU when we talked about this last week, ever so briefly, that it is slightly cheaper in the EU to buy one or the other. I believe it's Game Pass slightly cheaper. And I think the only time I ever had Game Pass, Will, was actually through a Discord offer. Yeah, they did that for back in the day. Yeah.

Uh
So. It's just interesting. And again, I I'm How do I put this? I have no ill will toward Discord. I don't like what they were trying to do, nor do I want them to try to sneak doing the age verification thing through again, uh you know, and I don't want governments to force them to do it, etc., etc., so on and so forth. Discord is also something that I use a lot. Uh I canceled my Nitro, um but I still use it, right? Um, this there there is a world where this is nothing but good for the consumer. However, precedent has shown that that world is fleeting and in approximately 9 months to a year and a half there'll be some form of enshittification coming down the line that raises the price of everything and it gets it you get used to it and then they slowly drip feed you up in price. Like that's that's what we we all

know that's the plan, right? Like that's not I'm not this isn't like a shocking revelation. This is what happens now. So, I think right now, I think hell yeah, take advantage of that. If you're going to pay $10 anyway, get Nitro, sure. Like especially because they've walked back on those practices, but I think it's on us to be a little more and I think I think overall the public is getting a bit more vigilant on this like you know, canceling subscription services when large shows aren't out that you aren't watching. Like trying to like I think there are ways that the enshittification people are noticing it and and not being as quiet or subservient to it. Not enough, but I think it's coming. So, just it's just sort of that's my future future bad stuff matters like, "Ah, man." Like you can see down the road how this is going to suck. But right now pretty good. Yeah. Go play Fallout 4 for free. Hey. Or free. Free. Okay, speaking of digital games and I

think we talked a little bit about earlier about GameStop being maybe in a a touch of trouble. Let's talk about a report from Capcom. So, Capcom recently released a report that I'm going to have this up somewhere. Here we go. Um their fiscal year 2026 uh quarter three results? Yeah, quarter three results. Um that so far over the past 12 months 93% of all of Capcom's game sales were digital across all platforms. So for every 100 game sold, they sold seven discs and 93 downloads.

Which I think we might have had an intuitive understanding of. But is a I think it's very interesting to put a like specific number to it and just say like this is one of the leading game developer/publishers. And this is where they're at in 2026. Because we keep going back and forth on like the is the physical media relevant thing from like a general general industry standpoint, right? Cuz like a lot of people here Matt included, me to some extent, let less less me than Matt. Um But that's because you play predominantly on PC and it's so you can't even do it there. Well, and I've never been super big on it because I don't I have a really hard time replaying old games. Like it has to have been a game that I love and many years, right? So

um Uh lot there are large number of people members of this community who are very big on physical media, which makes sense. But this isn't that's not the the industry standard now, right? Industry standard now is that 93% of Capcom games get sold digitally. Yeah. Um there's also, I'll put on my tin foil hat uh for a moment, illustrated by this plant. So, there's also the fact that Resident Evil 9 didn't get reprints of physical media until a month after they had sold out very, very quickly. Now, there's two ways to sort of look at stuff like that. It is a supply and demand thing, right? Like uh of course I I don't think even if if there was an infinite number of physical discs, they

would have sold the same as digital. But, I wonder Yeah, yeah. Uh chlorofoil hat. Um but, I wonder if this is also sort of like a move to move this number so that they can kind of do this as well. Like, it's like a knock-on effect that they caused while doing a cost at at best while doing a cost-saving measure and at worst kind of a planned thing to sort of move the number to see this, right? Like, "Look, why would we even bother doing this? 93% of our uh game sales were done digitally, you know? Like And again, I I don't know if even I fully believe that, but it's it's an interesting it's an interesting sort of note as well. And then, I mean, how do you even classify I I clicked on um I forget who it was in the chat who said they were going to buy uh Quint uh was going to buy Pragmata on physical for a Switch 2, but it was a key card. So, like, is that a physical game? I'm going to say yes, because it's a physical skew, which is while I guess

while it's downloaded, right? Would be classified as physical media because you still versus an all-digital pur- purchase where there is no physical media, right? Because those are classified differently cuz one of the advantages for all of the disadvantages of the game key card is that you don't need to attach it to your account. Yeah. Right? And that's what different that the whether or not the game is attached to a singular account feels like the defining feature in the line between digital and physical, right? So, I would say the game key cards count as physical even though they have many of the attendant weaknesses of digital sales.
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um for the purposes of this categorization
the purpose of this categorization, while I do agree with Ajax that like because the servers go down the key card will be useless. Yes, but at point of sale, I imagine it is being counted as a physical thing with the skew that was scanned at a store that you bought, you know, like
Correct.
Yeah.
For this categorization, game key cards are in the 7%.
Yeah. Okay. Um

and
Um Yeah, so I mean we kind of knew this was coming, but it is also an interesting this sort of thing to see like a company be like, "Nope, look." I also think that there's another big shift that's presented in this data. Um which is that in uh 2022, a third of Capcom's games were sold on PC. Okay? And in 2026, 54 and 1/2% of Capcom's games were sold on PC. That is not a small shift, right? That is not a small shift in at all. It's really weird cuz Capcom sucks at PC ports. The Pragmata port sucks. I love Pragmata. I think it's a great game. I think it's a beautiful story with fun, interesting mechanics, and everything else. And if you have a graphics card that supports frame generation and you turn frame generation off, the game

crashes. You have to play with frame generation on if you have a 40 or 50 series card cuz it doesn't know what to do with itself if you have those drivers but don't use frame generation. Right.
I'm not kidding by the way. Their PC ports suck, but now comprise the majority of units sold, which is wild. Like it's just it's so weird to me that we're beginning to see these things. I think that we had a bit of an intuitive understanding, but now we're getting like I really think that it's important that we look at this as a hard data point that Capcom has no reason to cook these numbers at all. Right. They're not using them to justify anything. This is a fiscal report, right? This is literally a fiscal report from Capcom.
again, put it if I put the chloroform hat back on or the chloroform hat back on. Chloroform hat. Wow, that Um the like you make a report like this to reference when making plans later. I'm

not saying they're doing that, but I'm saying the data being shown here, which I think is very real regardless, will be used in that direction to justify different things moving down the line. Yep. I agree. So anyway I'll be really curious what um I I feel like and this is bad. I feel like we're one console generation away from just not having anything digital. Yep. Or you mean physical? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Wow. I think that's right. And and I wonder and and and the reason I say this cuz before I'd say, "Well, absolutely not. How do you get to regions that have really bad internet, right? Like or don't have a or the internet connection's not whatever." I not to I hate getting hate getting political in a medium that has no politics in it whatsoever, but in the current makeup of at least the United States as economy, um I think gaming is going to become more and more uh

a thing that people cannot afford to do. and with that with that sort of move into different spaces, I feel like the idea like yeah, you're going to lose sales on not having physical, but you're going to lose sales regardless because no one has money to spend on it. Or not no one, you get what I'm saying. Like I think the two forces are going to happen at the same time and it's going to become a more niche thing that might not be as accessible and or affordable depending on the time period in which video games are being sold. Yep. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that's not true. But it feels like the market forces are moving in that direction and I think new consoles are probably I mean the switch two is going to be around for a minute. Um I think the PlayStation 6 they were talking like 2029. Is that right?
Yeah, which is probably about the timeline for Helix. Yeah. They tend to move together. And the Steam Machine already digital. Yep. And doesn't exist yet, but you know. And and doesn't exist yet, but we know it's

coming.
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I know Larkey. I I had to install one. Super pumped about that. Yeah. All right. Speaking of games that are ancient and somehow still kicking. Oh yeah.
Purely digital ephemeral things. Let's talk about a 24 year old game. Next year this game can drive a rental car. For those in Europe you have to be 25 in the US to rent a car.
Of course. Let's talk about Final Fantasy 11. This clip this image comes from a really wonderful put it in the show notes. Um Uh essentially a um a trailer for the event that Will's about to talk about that's done like a real old school anime uh and it's lovely. It's a delight. Yeah. So um Final Fantasy 11 is the precursor. It's not a direct prequel, but it is a precursor to Final Fantasy 14. And as a result of its crossover with Final

Fantasy 14 in the recent Alliance raid series and introducing the Final Fantasy 14 players to some of the bigger moments, bigger characters in Final Fantasy 11, Final Fantasy 11 is doing better than it's been doing in years. They had to shut down character creation on several servers because so many people were coming in and playing the game and making characters. Um they have now the the the game has a little bit of a a facelift planned for their website and their front end. You still have to mess with PlayOnline to make an account and that still sucks, but Square Enix has never been good at letting you make an account. Mog Station is like the worst MMO interface ever. It's real bad. It's not good. I love Final Fantasy 14. I'll die defending Final Fantasy 14. I cannot defend the Mog Station. Things sucks. Um But the most interesting thing is that after all of this time, Final Fantasy 11

is changing their free trial. And I know you're like, what? It's a 24-year-old game. So Final Fantasy 14 used to have a time-limited 14-day trial. Yep. And now it is an unlimited time trial up to level 75. Which is a really interesting change because it brings it in line with Final Fantasy 14. And is just like an interesting parity change and shows that one of the oldest running MMOs is still down to make changes and catch up and do things. I've not played Final Fantasy 11. But a free trial up to level 75 that I don't have to keep up with for exactly 2 weeks, it's kind of attractive. I might I might have to Yeah. Yeah, it will Yeah, it will become that. It hasn't kicked in yet. Yeah. So I'm They're really and they're pushing to make it to their 30th. Like I think that's the goal here is to keep it alive until 30 years for an MMO, which I think

will be really really uh really impressive. Yeah. And of course this comes immediately on the heels of Final Fantasy XIV announcing that one of the best expansions actually one of the best JRPG stories ever told is now free. That being the Shadowbringers expansion for Final Fantasy XIV. I will hold Shadowbringers up against a great many like single JRPGs of equivalent length as being an immaculate story. Of similar length? Well, I mean Is there one? I mean did just Shadowbringers. Just Shadowbringers is like 100 hours. That's long. That's long. Dude, for a JRPG that's short. I feel like maybe I just don't play enough of them anymore, but even like I feel like Final Fantasy like the main line Final Fantasy clocks between like I don't know like 40 and 70. Is that right? But there are longer ones. Tales games tend to be longer. Persona games tend to be longer. Yakuza games tend to be infinitely long

because you will get caught up playing mahjong for you know 50 hours and you know I mean and I've been playing I've been playing the Final even the Final Fantasy remakes and rebirth because Queen's Blood is my jam now the the mini card game in it and I just play that. Sure. So. Yeah. Um So yeah, just an interesting note and update on an MMO that's you know old enough to drink and almost old enough to rent a car. It's really fun though. Which is great, right? Cuz I I do think when we talk about games like stagnating or not doing things or shutting down or whatever when we point at Square and like hey they're making it easier to get in. They're doing things, right? Like and they do know on which side their bread is buttered as it were. Um On the side with the cheese. On the side with the making them the majority of their incoming cash. The cheddar, if you will. That's where I was going.
That's That's correct. Um their MMO

division is what's paying for the rest of the company to keep screwing up.
[laughter]
No, but AI's really going to work this time.
Right. It's really going to work this time. Really.
I asked it if it was going to work this time and it said, "I don't know, man." And then I was like, "No, but be positive." And it's like, "Okay, sure." I mean There are two companies where the head of the MMO division gets to drag the CEO of the whole company out on stage to make the CEO swear in front of the player base they're going to keep supporting the MMO and it's Blizzard and Square. And that's it. There are no other companies that do that. And Blizzard and Square both do that regularly. It's kind of fun. Yeah. Kind of nice. Yeah. Kind of like I kind of like it. Um all right. Speaking of something else I really kind of like. Mixtape. We're back in the news, baby. I talked about it I think last week or maybe the week before. Um what an absolute delight, but we're not talking about I can't believe this game has like so many like little micro

uh controversies at this point. But the But the latest is about people theorizing um basically that this game will eventually be delisted due to licensing deals uh for songs in the game going away. Um this sort of like just started a bit I think it sort of like a grassroots idea of like of because it the president here is not inaccurate. Like I mean you can even look to like Crazy Taxi and things like that. Like licensing deals for music traditionally um have a shelf life and then you can't keep selling it anymore. Granted, it changes now that things are digital and not just on a physical disc or a cartridge or anything like that. But this game, Mixtape, uh revolves around a playlist of music, a very specific playlist of music that the main character, Stacie, kind of takes you through. Um and people were worried that they were going to eventually get delisted, especially because, and this is a minor spoiler, there is a track from a famous

uh band headed by Stan Bush, basically that's in a Transformers film called The Touch. Um that is in this track as well that has been notoriously notoriously litigious for its use in things and been taken out of things before. So, the fandom kind of got or or the people who want to be mad at this game anyway, I don't know if they're fans, got um worried and started like saying that oh, the everything's going to get delisted to the point where um uh Annapurna did react and say, "We hear some people say Mixtape would be delisted due to music licensing expiring. That was a lie. Have a great weekend, everyone."
[laughter]
And I was like, "Okay." Apparently, what they're saying in in truth is that they have a a license that does not run out. Now, They have a perpetual license. That is A, hard to nail down for music, notoriously, and B, very expensive.

Um but other than a couple songs on this list, this is not like it's about like sort of like '90s Cali culture, right? And if you grew up there, if you were a '90s kid, you would what you'd listen to this and while there'd be band names that you know of, Iggy Pop, Smashing Pumpkins, Devo, uh you're not hearing Bullet With Butterfly Wings, you're not hearing Whip It, you're not hearing you know, anything like that. You're hearing sort of like because the character of Stacie is sort of like a a music head, you're hearing the things that are like the subculture popular songs, not the radio hits. Right. Which are cheaper. Regardless, um, I thought this was an interesting sort of like another swing at this game. There's there's all sorts of stuff that's sort of happening around this game, which is so strange. Again, Well, one of them is that Oh, what do you got? One of them is that all of the reviews

are fake and that people got bought off to like review the game well, but I've talked to personally who I know has played the game has been like, yeah, game's great. So, I find that one a little hard to believe. I I I want to I want to kind of, um, I'm trying to figure out, maybe people in chat know this too, like why people are coming down so hard on this game, and I think it's because truly the gamified elements of it are are limited. It is a It is essentially about a 3 and 1/2 hour long movie that you get to do fun little interactive bits in. And I don't know if the advertising for the game played it off in that direction, but like, uh, I would argue oddly, I'll say it. I'll say it here. Dispatch has less control over characters, their movement in a

moment-to-moment, than Mixtape does. You can The story you can branch many different ways in Dispatch, but I'm talking about like the elements that make it a game. I would say Dispatch has slightly less. That doesn't make it better or worse. I love both of these games infinitely. Um, but I find it like I'm wondering if people just sort of started dogpiling on this because like maybe that wasn't made enough clear in the marketing. It is only also like a $17.99 game at this point. I I think it is enough off the beaten path that people don't recognize the place that it has to just be itself and nothing else and not be accountable to like trends or market forces or anything else. Like it is regardless of how much money it cost or who that Annapurna produced it or like whatever, it has the indie sensibility of like I made this game because I

wanted to make this game because I wanted players to have this experience over the course of 4 hours and that's the only reason that it exists and it's here to be capital A art. Right? It exists for its own sake and to exist as art and that's it. Yeah, right? And and that confuses some people in a world where we're getting Overwatch crossover with Fortnite. Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Actually, Larkey goes, "The biggest critique I've heard of this normal game is how insufferable the protagonist is but never played it myself." Yes, Stacy sucks. The main character sucks, but there's a reason that she sucks. Like that that I I've heard that argument, too, and it's it's interesting because you she does things in this game where you're like, "Ugh." But she's also not the only person you somewhat control in this. She's the one you control the most. Um the And then actually to to Milo's point, there's also a really Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. There's also a really lovely sort of queer allegory in it which I'm not going

to break into if you're interested in sort of like looking at it through that lens and it's kind of overt in certain ways. Um Essentially, I don't know. I feel like people might have bought it thinking it there was more game than walking simulator game and maybe got upsetty spaghetti. Yeah. Um regardless, I'm This is just another story of like And and again, I'm glad that that they came out and be like, "Nope, you got this." In fact, the second the second this gets released on a physical cartridge like on the Switch, I will buy it if that ever happens. Limited run, etc.
I will be beyond shocked. Well, I don't know. Are they going to release a physical mixtape? Like like a mixtape?
a limited run would make a If they could if they could get the That license is probably more expensive, right? Like
Or put it on vinyl. Oh my god, mixtape soundtrack on vinyl? Yeah. Yeah. The amount of Yeah. That would be cool. Anyway, Also, to end this, Milo also

says, "Stacy sucks, but I hear her mom's cool." Yeah, she's kind of busy. She's got it going on. Yeah, right, exactly. Okay. Uh let's talk about one more story and then we've got some dessert. Efs and Stream Elements. So, uh it
[laughter]
So, there are two companies, two large companies, that sort of form the one of the backbones of the um of the streamer space that aren't Twitch or YouTube. One of them is Streamlabs and one of them is Stream Elements. And Streamlabs has a whole bunch of problems including trying to run their own fork of OBS, which doesn't work very well. And Stream Elements has had their own sort of set of problems uh that has not been the most conducive. We were on Streamlabs, then on Stream Elements, and now we've moved away from both into

like ultra niche third-party locally run stuff that runs on my PC and like We're getting homegrown organic world tech.
and more hipster with the way that we run this stream every year. Um but Stream Elements recently had kind of a disturbing-ish trend of not paying creators. And then they were the official sponsor or they were the official partner for sponsorships that were being sourced through Twitch. And that went away. And then they released a rather cryptic tweet about uh the um about their sort of state. Um we're in a positive discussion with potential acquirers working to find the best path forward for creators, customers, and our team. We'll share more updates soon. We've spent over a decade building for creators. We'll do everything we can to keep supporting this community.

That sounds a lot like the song that the band plays standing on the prow of the ship as it goes down. Um So, yeah, it's not Yeah, StreamElements, yeah. So, this is sort of an interesting moment. It will be interesting to see how streamers respond. I think a lot of There There's currently a problem, which is if you've ever squished a tomato with your fist, Don't do it. They are They are expensive right now. Okay, great. Excellent. So, just trust me when I tell you if you squish it, it goes everywhere. The The goo goes everywhere. Well, this is a large tomato that just got smashed with a baseball bat, and all of the creators are going everywhere to all of the different platforms and making their own solutions. And I've seen more, "Hey, do you need StreamElements? I've made a clone of StreamElements that does what I want it to do." And no one can settle on anything. So, this is sort of an interesting moment in the streamer space. We'll see where things congeal. We're mercifully not really affected by

this. Um with the limitation of a couple overlays that I hadn't moved off StreamElements that we use infrequently. So, I'm going to fix those. But, you know, it's just kind of interesting to see an industry that's as unstable. Like, we have so many load-bearing tiny companies in the streaming space, any of which could get flicked out from under us at any point. Quick reminder, if you do happen to and I know it's getting fewer and farther between, have a couple bucks, uh I I and and do appreciate streaming, toss a coin to not only your streamer, but to the OBS Patreon. Yeah. Uh because that is the one of the the the the pillars that holds up this entire functionality. Correct. And and it's hold OBS holds up more and more things every year. Like, OBS is open-source software that the world is beginning to run on. I I still support a bunch of people on Patreon, but I've I I also in the back of my head

have always had the like, you know, okay, if I happen to can't do this anymore for some reason, what is the order of operations of drop-off? OBS is the last one.
Right. OBS is also like two bucks. Like, it's it's a it's a volume thing. OBS is like
you yeah, you know what you get for it? Continual updates to OBS. Right. [laughter] Great. Excellent. Yeah, I'll do that. Um so, yeah.
We'll put a link, Meredith, we'll put a link to the OBS Patreon in the show description or the or the notes. Yeah. Uh okay. And then, last, but certainly uh by no means least, uh on our list of of gaming uh shenanigans today. Get the net. He get get the net. So,
mental? You can't You can't officially play Smash online. Well, you can't like original Smash. But, what if you could? What What if you could play original Smash online? What if not only you could play the

original Smash online, but you could play it with rollback netcode? Or? That's right. The thing that everyone's been waiting for fighting games to have for forever because the US internet sucks has just come to one of the most popular ancient fighting games thanks to RMGK which is a fork of the RMGN64 emulator. Um it its purpose is to do rollback netcode for N64 multiplayer over the internet. So not only can you play Smash with rollback, you can play Mario Kart or Mario Party with rollback netcode better than some AAA fighting games that have released in the past 5 YEARS WHICH IS BANANAS. YEAH. YEP. I'm just I'm so happy that like nerds,

man. This is one of my favorite things where they're just like, "Hey, we're bored. What can we do?" I don't know, man. We could make rollback netcode for a game. Nah, too easy. What if we made rollback netcode for an entire console? Yeah, that seems good. All right. And then they did it. And I'm so happy. YO, THIS IS ROLLBACK NETCODE for GoldenEye. This is rollback [laughter] FOR GOLDENEYE. LIKE, WHAT? ANYWAY, there's a tech demo in the Kotaku article of them playing with a simulated 320 ping uh and it's not noticeable. Like, the rollback netcode makes it so that both players can play reasonably For those people that don't know what this is, it basically means you can play these games across the internet and have a clean clean multiplayer experience.
If you've ever had like a um a moment where you've been playing like particularly fighting Fighting games get it the worst because they have such small and precise windows where um you do something and then the lag hiccups and then someone warps around or

changes or the game state isn't what you thought it was. The The Kombat Legacy Collection suffered a lot for its netcode at the beginning for the various games it was trying to put online and it has since fixed a lot of it, but yeah. The the That's because there's a disagreement between the two computers and the way that it attempts to resolve it is that one of them gets priority. Generally speaking. Rollback netcode says this is a whole it's a very precise setup to make it so that you have a little bit of leeway where people can disagree and the game has a system for resolving it such that both players understand what's going on all of the time. It's very cool. It should be in every multiplayer game, but it is more time-consuming to make. Yeah. Then regular netcode apparently and now every N64 game has it and I'm happy. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. Until Nintendo comes and mucks it up, but that's okay. That's

not today. That's that is not today. That is another day. Have we hold on. I want to go back down. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. There's only Well, there's only two stories that even remotely have a negative bend this week. That's unheard of Yeah.
games for breakfast.
look the industry is not in a great place, but right now people are breathing. And I think that that's like the biggest the biggest thing. Yeah. That's pretty great. If you have other good news stories that you'd like to share with us, don't forget you can hit us up on Blue Sky anytime during the week. You can shoot either of us a message and be like, "Oi, I found this thing. I think you should talk about it." And then we'll probably talk about it. Nine times out of 10. Eight out of 10. Seven. 6.4 out of 10. Some amount of times out of 10. We'll really IGN this. Yeah. Yeah,

right. Exactly. Um So, uh that, I believe, does it for our show for today. That's true. Will Hey, great great show, buddy. Thanks. Look at that. Ready to high-five about how great the show is?
Sure, buddy. 3 2 1 KACHOW! YAY! THAT was magical and totally in line. That's what happens when netcode doesn't work. That's right.
Um But no, thank you so much for joining us for Games for Breakfast. Um is any other last-minute things we have to tell people, Will? Uh a reminder, the schedule is changing in June. Please look forward to it. Uh with the we we had some questions asked in the Discord about why we're changing the schedule. The short version is we think it's a better show on Friday than it is on Monday. We know that lots of people will miss the Monday shows, we will, too, but we genuinely think that if we're going to make this the best show it can be, uh it it it's better as a Friday show. And Design Club will also be moving, so we're not doing a stream on Thursday and a stream on Friday over

on YouTube. Design Club will be moving to Tuesdays. So, Tuesday Design Club, Friday Games for Breakfast. We have a little break in between so we can get everything um all set up. So, Well, I guess the only thing that's left is to do our patented goodbye, uh sending us all out, the Games for Breakfast community into the week uh with positivity and just joy about these overall positive gaming stories. Uh again, for those of you if you've just joined us for the first time, we do the same outro every time to foster the sense of community to make sure that everyone can do the same outro at the same time as us so that we can all go into the week together and just have a really good time and all the energy is in the same place. So, thank you for watching this week's Games for Breakfast, and as always, if you have to end something, just replace yourself wherever you are with the plant. You might even plant it, you'll say, and just kind of Here, hold on. Wait, wait, hold on.