High Guard's Downfall, Marathon's Release, Xbox's Future | Roundtable News 370

What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Game Dev Unchained, the number one game development about game development and the lifestyle thereof. This is your host Brandon Fam. With me, a recurring guest, you know him, Ray Graham. How you doing, Ray?
What's What's up? What's up? What's happening? What's going on? All right, it's been a while. A lot to catch up on, but I think uh we can go ahead and and get going here with the Roundt News episode.
Sure.
This is Qin. Uh as mentioned before, this is opinions of our own and not of the companies we work for. So, please share your comments in your opinions on social media or

whatever and let's go forward, man. So, the first we haven't talked for a few months now. I think the the main thing, the elephant in the room is that uh it came and it went, right? We're talking about Concord 2 uh.0 or as others have mentioned it, High Guard. So, High Guard, uh, from the minute of, let's be fair, right? I want to make it very clear that we're I'm not very much in kicking it while it's down. I was kicking it while it was still up to be fair, right? At the minute when the trailer showed itself, I knew that I mean, I I was voicing my concerns right away. It was just the art direction was everywhere, right? Not even about the design. The art direction was so confusing. You have like these knights riding around on ponies, not even horses and then you have the Excalibur as kind of like a like a capture the flag type

of thing. Uh and and it was just all over the place and I I didn't know what to think of it. And just kind of quick recap. Uh the high guard is uh the studio what was the studio's name? Um
wasn't it?
What is the studio's name? Well, it doesn't matter. Wild light. Wild light. Yeah,
wild light, right? Uh, dimmed very quickly. Uh, High Guard came out um on Game Awards as kind of like the last last trailer shown for the show and it got a lot of flack for it. It being the supposedly spot for for for the best game and it wasn't that. Um, everyone was pretty disappointed and uh, all right. I mean, that's enough recap, but like I want to kind of hear your your opinion, Rick, before I dig into it. I'm digging too hard.

It's hard. No, it's hard for me to have opinion. Like those type of games are just not my not my jam, right?
Yeah.
Um, but I played it. I played it and like, you know, like the base building part and like I kind of I I played the tutorial, right? Because again, like it's that's not my jam. like play multiplayer games with a bunch of random people. Um it's just not my thing. Um you know, artwise and all that. Like I think it looked fine. You know, I think it looked I think it was a good looking game, right? But like the the one thing about about it that was bothered me was like the whole uh the mining mini game was also kind of kind of whack or at least I just didn't enjoy it, you know. Um but I did think they were trying to like do something different, right? They were mixing like different types of games all together to try to do something different. Um, it's still it's still playable. Company still exists. They they just scale down huge, right? Like these just because you can you can't sustain a big team if you're not making making the numbers, right? Um,

and and like it's it's pro it's probably going to end up being killed off, right? But then um but Wild Light will probably figure out a way to pivot to something else, you know, or or how can you know try to come up with something that will actually hit, right? Um you know, there's a lot of things that were said on the internet in the wake of all this kind of stuff, right? Like in terms of like reasons why it didn't it failed or whatever, right? But I think the number one number one things like when you're making these games that was like, "Hey, I want this to become your new game that you play over Arc Raiders, over Fortnite, over Call of Duty War Zone, over, you know, like the list the list goes on. Um, it's just it's just hard to do that, right? and um and everything has to be really going your way in order to like capture that attention because it's all about attention more so right

and there's all sorts of like technical things get into oh it doesn't look like this blah blah blah maybe it maybe that's what um didn't resonate with players you know um but it also like just what they're trying to do is straight up just hard you know um and then now and then now it's imperfect and and it's just a perfect storm Right. And I think also we're in a time where it's kind of it's becoming um maybe fashionable for people to just start hating on games before they even come out. Right. Right. And and and a lot of it and a lot of that is is like there's there's some there's some player backlash against like the years of like really horrible practice that have gone on, right? Um and we're getting some backlash against it.
Well, yeah. I I hear that. I mean, I think over the years, the players have been kind of scammed, right, with these kind of big budget games and, uh, some even buying buying them and and playing

them and being disappointed. Uh, I mean, Concord was kind of like the the most recent similar case and they lasted longer before the layoffs. The server was up longer um, before PlayStation completely refunded players, right? Um, this this was a little different. Uh, like you said, I think it's like 80% of the team got laid off. There's only like 20 or 30 people on the team left that is working on the updates.
And uh, it is uh, I mean, to be fair, their server is still up. I think the last time I saw there was only like 400 concurrent players on Steam that was still playing. Probably the devs. I think it's I think it's now in the double digits. So
double digits. So it's been shrinking.
Yeah.
I I So I understand the the uh the argument with um

there's player fatigue and hating is kind of popular,
right?
But in a case like this, it is valid. The game does suck, right? And uh I mean from the get-go, right? the it did not resonate. Uh, which was concerning. And then I I just hate how popular it is now for devs to respond to bad criticism or to to criticism.
Yeah.
But saying like, "Hey, just wait like as if they're going to show something." I was like, "All right, you can't double down."
Yeah. I think Yeah. I think a lot of I think there's a lot of mistakes that you that are there, right? Because I do I do feel like I do agree with this one thing, right? Game developers have to be willing to go out on a on a ledge.
Yeah.
And stand by what you make.
Yeah.
You have to be willing to do that, right? Um but you also have to be willing to to hear when people are like, "Nah, that's not it." Right. Cuz

sometimes you have to show people the way, right? Like this is the thing that's dope. And then people like, "Oh, yeah. I see. I see."
To train them a bit. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because that's how new things get made. A new thing that you just come up with out of whole cloth. Nobody asked for it, you know, like innovation is not asked for usually and it just it just happens and then people resonate with it, right?
But what but what you should do is like actually ask people if this thing I'm making is going to resonate with you and see what their reaction is, right? And and and do that before you spend a ton of money, ton of time, ton of ton of effort, right? To make sure that you're building towards the right thing or you're you're getting close to the right thing. Okay, now we need you guys to help us continue to get close to the right thing, right? Um, so like the whole like approach, right, has to change in this day and age, especially with so much so much competition and like straight up getting hate and then being like, nah, nah, don't worry about it. It'll be dope when you see it is kind of is kind of like it's the old

school way of doing it, right? It just it just isn't like that anymore, you know?
Yeah. Let me check something. I did read a quote, but I don't know if it's true. I just want to double check that the High Tiggard CEO was infamously saying that he didn't want to play test the game because he was so sure of it or something like that.
Yeah, there some there was some talk like who I don't know it's like rumors and like I don't know if it's true or what, right? But there's some talk about that where where like specifically some early play tests were like nah, we're not doing that. Um, and like if that's true, you know, back in the day you could do that, you know, um, now now nowadays that's like no, you can't you just can't do that.
Yeah. So, yeah, just to be clear, Dusty Welch, co-founder of Wildlife, uh, led the decisions to skip public play testing or beta before the games January.
Again, rumor and speculation.
I'm reading it. It it seems to confirm

by Game Informer at least.
Yeah. Yeah. the in the game like this is just I've been saying this there's an old guard that have seen success before like the studio was kind of touting how they were like ex respawn guys ex Titanfall creators
right right there on the their site and then days later after the launch they removed it quietly which is kind of hilarious but uh there there's a lot of like these 2020 kind of auh finance gains that we're seeing just imploding. Um, and it was one of the uh curious things that we brought up like me and you personally on our round table was like I wonder what these games are going to be like
around co and because everybody was just paying for them, right? Money was
to be grabbed everywhere and so far it's just been so bad. Yeah,
in fairness to all this, right, is like when you go on a crazy spending spree

and just like give anybody I I I shouldn't even be so critical like I don't know if it's anybody money, but you give out a lot of money to a lot of different things. Um, the way that this model traditionally works is like a a very large percentage of those things
are always going to end up in failure. um is just this how it works is only like the top the creme the creme at the top are going to return return anything and so I think like we're seeing the the fruits of a lot of those labors coming right now and so it seems like oh my god so many so many of these games are getting canned or running out of runway or like a lot of layoffs a lot of studio closures right but I think it's like you have to call like a lot of that was some of the early spending that might have been done without due diligence and like proper proper vetting of the ideas or just like hey go off and you know make something

cool right without really thinking about what will the landscape look like 3 to four years from now you know um which is also why a lot of people are more are more focusing on like how to make smaller games in a really small timeline um because then you could react quicker to like what's going on in the market you wait three, four years, like the market will be completely different by that time, right?
Yeah. That's another controversy that they ran into after their game flop. You know, for years they were touting like indie passion projects vibes, right? They were like, "Hey, we're indie dependent studio. We're basically self financed." And then shortly after the game stunk, right? it it's revealed that Tencent was financing the studio secretly behind the doors the whole time that it was
so not at all. So that's also
the whole discussion about that's dumb personally in my opinion, right?
And and I and I and I think it just

boils down to a couple things, right? Um what does indie even mean anymore? A lot of people are asking this question. I think like a lot of people
it doesn't it doesn't mean 10 cent, that's for sure.
Let me get to it. we get to it. But there's there's there's um people that get funded by publishers.
Yeah.
And they still call themselves indie or indie publishers, right? And it's like like what is that what does that really mean?
Indie means like indie like is supposed to mean like you have no ties to any sort of organization at all. And you you you pulled up your she your uh your seat cushions. You found the money in the in the crevices and you made this thing on a shoestring budget. three, four people, you know, uh, but now we're having like indie studios, 50 people funded by, you know, some some publisher, right? And and I think like the whole notion of like 10 cent secretly, I think that's just dumb, right? Because a lot of times a lot of times too when you sometimes when you have a publisher,

you cannot
publicly state who they are.
Yeah. legally until until some point in the future when when the game's released or you want to do a marketing push behind it and there's like there's some agreed upon time frame what that could be you could let people know that right but it isn't like you know so there could be some legal reasons why right is what I'm saying right and it's not like some nefarious
cabal it's like that's how people making it sound and it and it's just so stupid right so so it's it's not that right um
right Right. I mean, it was probably known after Tensent yanked funding with the two and that's how we know. It's like, oh,
and then suddenly they're indie. They were very Well, now they're very indie. They're about 20 developers.
We probably
Yeah. Well, more indie than before. Let's just say that.
But yeah, it's it was all types of mess, right? So like

Apex Legends was famously uh just dropped out of nowhere and then had like insane success.
Yeah.
So obviously they tried to replicate that with with what they were doing with High Guard
to the opposite effect. Uh because what Apex did was rare as hell and you know the timing of it was in the middle of battle royale and it was basically the third biggest one right
uh behind Fortnite and PUBG so it's different and high guard like I can't it's a it's a first person shooter basically right uh it's a crowded market right and it seems so stupid that they did it the way they did without any like proper testing before like
y
their their best stuff were was presented at Game of Wars, right? That's their best footage. That's their best

captures, right? And within an instant, everyone across Well, it's just Well, usually when you're doing a trailer, it's your best
You put your best foot forward. You try. Yeah.
And within a second, unanimously across, everyone's like, "This is shit." Like how much in a bubble do you have to be within that studio to not see any of that? That's crazy to me. Like how can you not see that this is ridiculous, right?
Like it's so out of touch.
Yeah. I wouldn't I don't even know like cuz like I that's the other part of it is like when that trailer came out
I didn't even see I I was like I was like off the grid. I didn't even see the the trailer at all. So, so I couldn't I can't even form an opinion on what like what my reaction would have been um upon seeing it. Right.
But but I but I also think like hating on something or being like this doesn't this isn't what it is just from a trailer alone is usually not the right

way to judge whether something's good or bad.
Yeah, of course. I mean, if if developers have their way,
but I do say that it's on it's on the developer. Of course, if you're making a trailer, that trailer has to sell your your thing, right? Like the the trailer has to make people go, "Wow, I want to I want to play that."
Well, every time you share about your game, you're you're asking the buy in slowly, right? That's the idea of marketing, right?
And if your first trailer is just turning away people in disgust, right? Maybe that's not the best move.
Well, that's the thing. I don't know if that was the full reaction, right? Like I just don't
I was disgusted, man. From the artistic standpoint, I was looking at it like I'm not complaining about the technical. Obviously, that team is talented
technically, right? But the art direction and the culmination of what they put together, it was just so random. It was just
It's the definition of horseshit. That's what I saw. It was just so random. Like

you wouldn't put ponies with knights in sci-fi like that. That's how like what I just described to you.
You keep saying you keep saying ponies, right? But these things are mounts and they have different types of mounts and like
what I saw in the trailer was a pony. It wasn't a full horse, right? The guy's feet was touching the ground while he's riding.
No, it wasn't even a It was What was it? Let me look at this thing. I'm going to look at it now. I'll I'll play the trailer so people can
You're going crazy right now about
It's been months, so people need a refresher. I'll I'll play the trailer.
In the hero art, there's literally like a bear that somebody's riding and stuff like um Yeah. Come on, bro. Let's Let's be Let's be reasonable.
Yeah. Play this. I'm playing the trailer right now.
I'm seeing Yeah, he's on like uh he the main dude is on a horse. It is a horse

mount which is like
that's that is a pony dude
when you first make it
like the fact that the trailer starts off with him like jumping off the cliff
Yeah.
was not a good uh omen.
Oh lord. Yeah. No, it's fine. This is fine. That's a full ass horse, dude. What are you talking about? Anyway, all right. Enough of this. Enough of that.
Right. So, um but no. Yeah, that's that's a horse he's riding and there's bear and there's a there's like a
it's tough, man. And like the then finally we get to the design, right? The finally we get the design part and it's three versus three on a huge ass map.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like how do you fail on everything? Who thought that was a good idea?
Like I said, like I said, I think I just think in this day and age, right, you you have to come out early with this stuff. You definitely have to do play testing.
And I think and I think it's such um like it's such a thing with AAA games or

like super high quality games where it's like no no like we need to be in our complete secrecy or complete bubble and then like planned marketing like but if you're going to do a pan marketing release and all that kind of stuff you could also work in like okay when we do the planned marketing like hey let's have a look little early version that people could play maybe right. I think like the way we approach this stuff has to change a bit. Um, just because of what the current landscape is and how crowded it is and how many games are out there, you know what I mean? Um, it's it's just it's just hard, right? And so, like, I just think they were kind of operating under the old school, right? Where it's like, no, we'll come out and wow you with with the finished thing and it'll be dope because we think it's dope, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Call that misplaced confidence.
Hubris. Some people call it hubris.
Um.
Yeah. I mean, like that's not to say I

know the developers work really hard on it.
Yeah.
I'm sure you have friends on that team that
are not on that team anymore because of it.
Yeah.
Um, this is where LinkedIn is gets pretty dishonest. Like as soon as like the like in the middle of this backlash, right? Everybody's hating on it clearly. And then you we have friends on there like, "Hey, check out our game. We just, you know, released a trailer and it was like, "Oh, it looks so great. I'm looking forward to it." It's like, you know, it doesn't look good, dude. I kind of want a burner account. It's like, why are you lying to him?
Tell him to start applying somewhere else. You know, it's bad.
Some some people probably meant that, you know, and and that's what I'm saying. Like I I think um that's
like me me I'm not a I'm not like an artist by any by any stretch, right? And I look at the art and I'm like this is all very very plausible art now. Art direction and like the difference between like styles and all that kind of

stuff that's going on in the game. They were trying to merge like two different styles, right? And and but
Frankenstein art design. That's the problem.
Yeah. It didn't really
It has no soul. It was soulless. That's the problem.
Yeah. It didn't really mix, right? So, but like you know, but it's like people trying trying to do something and and I actually
Yeah.
You know, they built something, they try to make something, they try to do it. You know,
obviously the core of as this game developer, I'm like, kudos. You know, you did something, you dreamt of it, and you shipped it.
Yeah.
All right. It's always going to have my respect. It's very hard to do something.
The fact the fact that a game exists at all is always is always a miracle.
It's amazing, right? Not to kind of downplay that at all.
Yeah. But you know, but it's like, God, guys, can you take a second, you know, just look at your game?
But also think about like the challenges behind like building a team from scratch, you know, and and trying to like
do something like with some sort of opinion and like team hasn't worked

together before.
Sure. There's always always a challenge just the the team dynamic of things.
If not, that's probably the biggest challenge aside from the vision of the game, right? Yeah,
like a small team uh can can deliver a vision better, but then you multiply that with 80 plus people
to and that's why and that's why like early looks are important, you know, and I and I and I think that's um like an example of that going the other way. I don't know if it's on the agenda to talk about, but like Marathon
Yeah.
Right. Who knows where it's going to end up like cuz it's undergoing like active stuff going on right now. Like like the Steam the the server slam is going on right now, right?
But um but like when it first was shown, a lot of stuff happened between when it was first shown and now, right? And now a lot of people are like, "Oh, it's a lot better than it was, right?" And they still have more feedback and they still have more more things they would like see changed, right? but they're like,

"Oh, it's it's a lot better based upon them actually listening to some of the feedback that we gave early." Right.
And that's that's why that's important, right? Um
Yeah. So, I I'll conclude the the high guard with this, right?
Um obviously, this is not on any of the developers, right? But collectively, right, you guys failed because there was an echo chamber, right? that wasn't uh that that's the thing that frustrates me. Obviously, there was a bubble in the echo chamber and they were constantly play testing this game internally at least, right? Not publicly, but internally
and they kept congratulating each other saying this is awesome, this is great. Like I think it's more rare to have like 80 plus people in a room to agree on something, right, than to disagree. And I'm just very surprised that 80 plus people maybe because of political power dynamics or just because you know the

CEO the founder have such a a pedigree of a resume that it's hard to kind of question right.
I would also I would also I would probably add other things like I would say like it's probably there might have been a culture of like yeah not
Yes.
not being challenging, right? could be culture. That could be
right. But the other part of that is also like if you're playing a game with people you know that is a team based game
and you're all on voice chat and these people you know and you're playing in the office all together and you know them very well. Right.
Well, that's what I wonder.
The game is probably a lot more fun.
Yeah.
Right. In that in that situation.
Well, what I wonder is this, right? because um you know obviously after it kind of flopped you know everybody I think a lot of journalists reached out to developers like what happened and I saw like a one that went viral of the developers like people were asking what

happened
you know we just created great you know we created a game that we were all passionate about that's what happened these are the best people you you know you know that's not what we're asking why
I guess in the climate where layoffs are happening rampantly you don't burning the bridges.
Yeah, that's well that's how just how you talk guys, you're proud of it. You worked on it. You're proud of it and you want to be like, "Yo, we came together. We made a game that we wanted to make."
You know, there is.
And you can't you can't publicly say, "Oh, the game was garbage for this and that." You just can't do that publicly. You can't.
You have to. You can't. You cannot.
I know you can't. And it's more dangerous. And it's probably easier for me to say it because I'm loud, but like
in in um our industry right now has a problem clearly, right? That's why there's so many layoffs. There's why in

the Western games there's like this there's a problem that hasn't been solved, right? And we don't know when everyone's saying 2028 is kind of when we rebound, right? So there's clearly a problem where these highprofile games that I think to be fair players do give it a chance, right? Um just hearing from the pedigree of like these studios background with Respawn and all, I think generally people don't come to the table with hate. They're like kind of open-minded and then they see something and then they hate, right? I I feel like until our our our our our western studios and western developers can be honest about themselves, right, that we're always going to be falling behind.
It looks so good and it plays so good and I'm like it's like they never missed a beat. Like Japan's games have just

constantly progressing. So, I have I have very strong opinions about this actually.
All right.
Very strong.
And um ever since I've been playing video games like ever since the beginning of time, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, before that, even Nintendo 64,
you know, the the NES, Super NES, like right
I've always said this, Japanese games flavor. flavor, right? And they know how to make like really fun
games, right? And then when we talk about western developers, right? That uptick like western developers was really like western developers actually grasps onto the advanced graphics and techn technological advancements that happened with the consoles and really took huge advantage of that. Right. Yeah.

And that's the age of Halo, right? I play Halo, right? But I've also played FPS shooters like the first ones, right?
Yeah.
I thought Halo's trash.
Yeah.
Right. And and and it's because like Halo But Halo did things where FPS's finally became playable on a console.
Console. Yeah.
Right. And that was like a big a big deal, right? But I was like I was like, "Come on now." like you know been playing FBU there's way better for PC you know right but but it started a whole thing right and it started a whole trend right and so this whole notion right but then as that happened the the western develop the eastern developers Japanese and China's developers didn't really grasp on to the technological advancements as fast right yeah but they still made they still made incredible games that had incredible gameplay and because they've been doing ever since. Right. It's not a new thing.

Yeah.
Right. They've been doing this for always, right? And then um but then now what we're experiencing is we're starting to get to like kind of a plateau
of of like the graphical quality difference between this generation, that generation. That gap is getting smaller and smaller. We're optimizing for like really
really small uh gains, right? But there's developers in Japan and China that are like, "Oh yeah, I I I actually know the technological advancements I need to make, too." And then you mix that with the fact that they're really good at making games period. And then you get Wukong and like some of these things that were like laotting as like it's the end of the Western developer, right? But but it's just like no, these dudes have been dope always, right? Now, now the game is also looks really good, right? Like and I think um like you know Dragons, what was it? Uh Dark Souls, like the original Dark Souls is an ugly

game, right? But it has a huge following because of its gameplay, right? And the last version, Elden Ring looks way better. Still not like top top top, but it looks way better
and but that gameplay is still there that like everybody loves, right?
And so sometimes like the graphics doesn't even really matter. is really what gameplay are you offering to people, right?
And I always felt always felt the Japanese and the Chinese always knew how to like they have flavor when they do stuff, right? And they know how to just do crazy stuff that people enjoy playing.
Yeah. To kind of ride off of that. Yeah.
Uh no, I agree. Like there I I've been voicing this concern for for like the past year or two about there's this weird deemphasis on design. And when I say western, I'm I'm not even saying European because European and Asia are kind of on the uprise uptick. They've been doing well um overall in their market. They're not having the

downturn that we're having here in North America. So when I say Western, it's mostly North America studios. And uh yeah, like the the the the the North American teams for whatever reason are delisting and getting rid of a lot of old school designers, right? Um I I've been noticing on LinkedIn more and I I know a lot of my friends are having a hard time getting back into the studio, which is very odd because the design department have always been small to begin with, right? there's only a handful of them in each studio and the the handful of them that are looking are having trouble finding jobs. It's like, all right, where where the [ __ ] is all the designers then uh that they're hiring? And then now we're seeing some of the results of that, right? Uh and I know like like you said before, yeah, North American teams have always been the the bleeding edge of graphics, right? In terms of art direction, um I've been proudly saying that the art

direction have never missed, right? It's all if a game uh does doesn't do well, it's usually because something's wrong with the design. Like the gameplay is no good, right? That's been a thing.
But then I see something like High Guard. All right, we'll move on to Marathon right now, right? these games that the where the the creative art direction the you know creative decisions are so bad where I was like what is going on with our artists who are making these calls right and it's not even technical like technically well now now I I got to say technically too because high guard runs like [ __ ] right what I'm I'm seeing like the optimization problems with it a lot of people are like having these 5090 cards and having problems running it on their PC and the the way that it looks too, right? It's not like bleeding edge, right? It looks kind of stylized, which is meant to like be optimal, but for

whatever reason went with that style and it's still heavy on a three versus three map, it's like what is going on where our artists are are [ __ ] that up, too. So, like I kind of have like as an investor, right? I understand because that's the talks now with investor land is like why should we buy pay for more in North America developers because North Americans do cost more right when I can get something less and get better bang for the buck RUI with Eastern developers or European developer right without without the uh uh with more humility without the cockiness right
and Um, and and like the Wildlife thing, I'm I'm curious, too. And I hope that, you know, some journalists eventually will break through that wall of like, oh, the game's fine, you know, all of these developers. Like, we made a game together. It's like, all right, come on. We really do need to know what happened here because I think that data is good

for the rest of us, right? So, we don't create like how how is a, you know, as an industry in North America, are we going to get better if we can't be honest about our failures, right?
Yeah. But I don't think we I don't think it's like a mystery.
You know what I mean? Like I don't
Well, I need us to say it. It's like one of those like addiction problems that you have where like, "Yeah, I do have." You have to say it
and acknowledge that. Yeah, it sucks, you know? And it sucked for these reasons. Like, oh, good. All right. I'm not living in the Twilight Zone where like I'm the only one that's seeing this suck.
I would say I'll say this. If that game existed before any other like you know of the current team based
I don't even think so
team based games right you wouldn't be as critical
uh maybe not as critical you know because you know they tried
you know like it'll be different right like it would be like so that's why it's always like you know maybe it's just too late
for the time maybe they tried
but that argument is just as bad because

like hey you guys
different right
your team had all this time all these games to look at and this is what you came up with, you know, it's like that that that side of so like the wild like I the number one question I have if that team
man
ever gets to be honest was that was it the remote thing that they weren't sitting next to each other and play testing that they weren't able to kind of nitpick and and and kind of point these obvious things to everyone else? you know, was it because they were living separately and not in the office all this time that no one caught this? Because there are subtle things that you miss when you're play testing where it's like, "Oh, why'd you make that face?" It's like, "Uh, you know, this pony kind of sucks."
I would I would not I would not blame this on remote like that's just looking for a scapegoat, you know? Um when when like like I said, I just think going quiet with a game like this, a game that should be really driven by what the

community wants.
Um and you just don't show it to them, right? And just suspect like here take this and and maybe their plan was to be like here take this and then okay now we'll listen to your feedback cuz they did also make a lot of changes while the game was active. like it's still it's still going on but like while there's way more players you know they added five player 5v5 right and all they were making adjustments
yeah they were making adjustments as people were playing it so maybe that was their plan all along
but maybe it also should have been a little bit
y
frontloaded you know
they should have went through alpha testing it should have been a year ago at least when they started to kind of accept people and listen
and then also the whole you know the whole like not running well thing too is like these days, you know, I don't know the exact makeup of the team or whatever, but these days a lot of teams don't want to have
optimize.
No, they don't want to have graphics or or or engine experts, right? They they

they get they get it engineed off the shelf and they're like, "This engine should be able to answer the call of what we want to do and and sometimes you just need to get in there, you know, and and really
is that is Let me ask you on that. there has been like this theme.
I don't know what the testing what their testing plan was around performance. Like I have no idea. Right. But like
Yeah. Let me ask you. So like the the popular thing
Yeah.
that uh uh developers are always saying is like Unreal games don't run well, right? Um
is it is it really because there's a just no graphics engineer on these teams anymore or what are you saying exactly? That's a common theme. I think I think some teams are not spending enough time especially on PC they're not spending enough time testing it on different configurations and understanding like how they need to scale it and what settings they need to turn off. I think um I think a lot of the advertising around Unreal some people just take a

face value without like actually oh what work do we need to put in you know um to to optimize it and make sure that it's running running well for our experience right um what is the testing plan like how many different machines do you run this on um it's hard to it's hard to hire graphics experts experts and engine experts right now cuz they all work at Epic or they all work at at Unity, right? So, it's like even hard it's hard to find the the the right talent even. Um, and if you do, especially like in this whole realm of like we need to make sure our game budget is manageable, they're not cheap, right? So, so it's like I think it's a combination of like a lot of different things, right, that makes it not necessarily work out, right? And some people just want to blame the engine or you know, but it's it's all about like like the craft and experience you put into it. That's, you know, the engine's not going

to make your game look great and it's not going to make your game look bad. It's it's the effort that you put into it, right? That that really makes it shine, right? And some engines make that easier to do than others. Sure. Right. But it's it's really about like the expertise that you apply, right? Yeah. Um
All right, let's move on. Um, pretty sure Highguard won't be around in another 6 months. I'm surprised they're keeping I I guess the the most uh curious thing about that team is like, all right, there's sub 20 developers now. I wonder what that looks like the next six months like what exactly are they planning to do? Uh, just to kind of service the rest of the game or are they really kind of cooking something else?
New prototype. That that's the that would be the smart thing to do. I don't know what they're doing, but the smart thing to do would be like a a new prototype on a with a small
just with the the the whatever is left over from high.
Yeah. What can you what can you salvage make it just on something else, right?

And like and there's like plenty of there's one example of this that everybody keeps forgetting. Um there's this little small game called Fortnite.
Oh yeah.
That didn't do well when it first came out.
Yeah.
Right. And then and then they made some changes and and look at Fortnite today, right? Like it's it's like a huge a huge thing, right? So like, you know, anything's possible really.
Yeah. But Fortnite had PUBG.
Well,
they literally just copied it.
They copied an idea. Yes. But it started out as something else, right? Like something entirely, right? And then they added a different mix to it, right?
And I actually like that game. I like the original Fortnite game.
Yeah, it was different. It's all more crafting.
Yeah.
Well, there you go. While I just wait for another game and and and copy it. Hopefully, another good game will come out in the next two months.
I think I think in these days it's a lot

harder just to hope someone copy something. But
I don't know, man. I feel like games just get no respect in terms of copying. Um, so all right, let's talk about Marathon. So Marathon is uh Bungie's game, right? It just came out in terms of testing. It did pretty well. Yeah. I think it was at peak 140 day one and then it uh dipped as low as 63 which is still which is pretty good. And uh they're continuously um getting feedback and uh from you you played it and I what I've heard is like uh people just want more polish but overall they're they're enjoying it. Right. Uh obviously you know everyone's comparing to Arc Raiders which is the game and is not as good right which is uh what is what people are saying
uh but um I want to know your thoughts you know after play.
Yeah I mean yeah again these games are

not my type of game.
So I'll just preface it with that like I I died and all my [ __ ] was gone and I was like oh that sucks. Like this is this is not for me at all. Right. Um because then I would be very I I would be very paranoid of who I teamed up with if that was the case, right? I wouldn't team up with random people, right? I I think that's
maybe some people like doing that, but I I wouldn't do it. I would have to be friends of mine if I'm going to lose all my stuff. But anyway, um so so so there's there's that part. Um, but in terms of like the gunplay, how it felt, how it felt, all that stuff felt like really good, you know, like the there's some issues with like the UI and stuff and and like the like the UI is not very readable and just confusing and I couldn't really distinguish human players from um from from NPC players, right? Um I played very briefly, like I played like one match and I was like, "Oh, okay. I see what this is." Um, but

like I guess I wouldn't and I and I would say from the earlier looks of it, like the graphics, everything looked like way better. The environment looked better. Um, there was like more detail, right? Um, I I really like that style of like like bright colors against like more muted things, you know?
Yeah.
I think it's I think it's an interesting style that they're trying to go for. this whole like cyber cyber neon cyber type of thing kind of like Mirror's Edge, you know?
Yeah.
Um, so yeah. So overall like that that was my my thought like now whether it is the the extraction shooter to to be the one that everybody plays like I have no idea cuz I haven't even I haven't even played Arc Raiders. I haven't even installed
Arc is dope, too. Um, I mean, Arc Raiders, every time I see a video of it, I'm like I'm like, "This game looks beautiful."
Very nice,
right? But I I you know, like when I see, oh, I got to be a Twitch gamer and

be shooting FPS and all that. Like, I ain't got time for all that. Um, so, but I but I should I really should check it out. But, um,
yeah, I'll I'll comment on Arc Raiders real quick. Arc Raiders is first of all the aesthetic of Arc Raiders is what you what a first person shooter fan would normally go for, right?
It's, you know, it's just the look that most shooters fans like, right? And uh the uh like you said, the the environment, it's so epic, right? Basically, you as a player is 10% of the screen and the rest is the environment. And that contrast just makes it feel so epic every time. And uh it really does feel like you're camping with your friends when you're walking through it. And like because of the environment uh is so distinctive, right? Every every environment that they introduced, it feels fun to kind of walk through and discover things, right?

So just mentioning that and then talking about Marathon, I get what Marathon is doing. Obviously, it's going for like a more clean uh Mirror's Edge, not not as uh detailed as Ghost in the Shell, right? Uh I mean, they committed to it. I I felt like the the when they first showed the trailer, like I was complaining about how they didn't seem so committed. If you're going to go for it, go for it. So, I definitely do see that they went for it. Uh they added more geometry. It's not so flat, right? the color there's a little texture to it. It's not uh it's just simple colors, right? So, they did take in the feedback and put some art in it basically, right? But like the same reason that I like art creators where I feel like it appeals to gamers. I I find it going to be hard for marathon, right, to do the like this kind of art style would be good for something like a sidescroller or those type of games. You know what I mean?

where it's not like I'm saying it because like to me it's more if you're going to force go for something like that. It doesn't
Yeah.
you know naturally blend with the shooter right which is more
Yeah. I'll just say this right like all the criticism that has been live like so far that has been mentioned or talked about with with respect to marathon um I have not heard much of any of it be about what it looks like.
Right.
Right. Um there's all sorts of other criticism, right?
Um so so like that for me is like I think I think it's Yeah. Do something different, man. I'm not trying to see like just do something different. It's cool if it's consistent and coherent. Like just do that, right? And and it fits with the theme, right? And so just just go all in on it, right? I think that's fine. But it's like all the other stuff like the gameplay stuff that the more expert people that are experienced in this area are saying that will really make or break it, right? And is it is it

good enough to get enough players to come over and play it, right?
Yeah. And I think just in general like that whole that whole type of game, extraction shooter thing is is like it's not it's not like a it's not a mass appeal type of game.
Yeah. you know, so like you have to get those those groups of people that play those type of games away from the games that they're already playing.
Yeah. It's the same group. Uh there's a lot of games. It's not just games. It's like, you know, Netflix and stuff that it's kind of pulling pulling you in all different direction. It's so it's so hard to compete for people's time nowadays.
You say Netflix, right? But the, you know, there's a report that came out that like that's listed what the things are and and it's it's the the number one the things that have been growing more
rapidly. No. Oh, there's been some of that. Yeah. But the things that have been growing more rapidly for like the demographic that we're talking about is is gambling.

Gambling. Yeah.
Prediction prediction markets have been like blowing up, right? which is just like you can call them prediction markets for whatever legal reason you want, but it's gambling, right? And then um and then and then um Only Fans had had a huge had a huge um so
that's our group,
right?
Those are guys.
Yeah. So like that it's it's just the general attention, right? Like
Yeah.
Why would I play a game
when I'm not I'm not I'm not um hitting my parlay, you know? Um,
yeah,
ate all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, I mean there's a there's a lot of uh Yeah, definitely a crisis on our hands.
It's it's it's it's a legit crisis if that if those are the things that are that are increasing like like crazy. Gambling, uh, Koshi, Poly Market, and Only Fans. Um, like like
all devices,
there's a pro there's a problem, right,

that needs to be sorted out. Yeah.
Yeah, I do see that. Like like uh having a high school kid, they talk about these prediction markets like why what are you guys doing gambling all the time?
It's crazy. I mean, is this like Vegas's answer? Because uh drinking and gambling in Vegas have gone down. Like they're disappearing and then suddenly these prediction markets I wonder if they just transferred there.
Yeah. Yeah, I I think part No, I think part of the problem part of part of Vegas is deise is that gambling is becoming more ubiquitous and legal,
way more convenient me. So I don't I don't need to go to Vegas.
Right.
Right.
But it's Vegas, man.
Yeah, Vegas is cool.
But you know Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously people listening maybe not be too

obvious, but I'm always hoping games succeed more than fail, right? Like it it does us no good if all the games that are coming out of North America are failing
subsequently after each other. And so a marathon I think they're adjusting as good as they can with kind of like I I felt like the reception was kind of similar. It wasn't great and but then you know after a year they delayed and added changes and they have to have somewhat of a hit, right? I mean this is their game basically after Destiny and it's been like five plus eight years, right? Eight years since they've released anything. Um, not not counting the DLC's, expansions, or whatever. Um, so they definitely need this to work.
Uh, I don't think it's going to go, you know, I don't I don't think it's going to be mass appeal, right? Like you said, extraction shooters are not mass appeal games even to begin with. But if you're

competing against arc raiders, right? you know, the decision and we talked about all these other markets, uh, like Only Fan and Poly Markets and stuff, but we're just talking about games. It's like, all right, I got some time to sit down. I'm going to play Arc Raiders. I played a marathon.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, people are still going to pick Arc Raiders, right? Uh,
yeah.
And the the if they can survive on that lower percentage, then yeah, maybe this is fine for for what it is. I'm also just bothered by the general decision to just not make a a marathon remake.
Yeah.
For the old heads first. Um
Oh. Oh. Remake. Yeah.
Yeah. Just remake like the original or like a sequel to the original like in kind of the same style as the original game. And then you'll like you hype up the IP, bring it back, everybody's super happy. And then you like, okay, here's here's like a multiplayer version of it, too. Um, yeah. I just don't know. Yeah.

I don't I don't know why it's like so different from like the OG game, you know? Um,
you think they played the OG game?
But that's old man. That's this old man yelling at cloud thing. Yeah. Yeah. But do you think the the the the creative team actually played the old game to draw inspiration or did they just put it in and then just
No, I I think they might have. Yeah, I would hope so. Like at least for like in terms of like the the theme and the setting, right? Um but yeah.
Yeah. I mean obviously uh they should have done more to tie it into the old one. I think they figured like there are a lot of people play the original where they didn't even do that. But
no, but I think that's that's the thing. It's like such an old IP and and I think like you're going off off the strength of that IP to try to sell this, right? Because it's it's you're using that IP to sell this game. It might be better to try to like recreate that feeling of the

original game first to solidify that in people's minds, you know, a new a new version of this world. Um, build more fans, right? Cuz that's the other thing. It's like it's like yeah, it's a game that that that we're going to hype to you and advertise to you and everything like that, right? But um but like the IP doesn't really mean anything to gamers today
to anyone. Yeah.
That's why I I kind of they should have just done the Destiny 3. Like I I don't understand. So they needed to hit they need to prove themselves. They went in and out of this controversy with Sony kind of slowly taking over as a studio, right? There's a reason. There's a reason why Bungie left Microsoft.
Yeah. But
all I will say to why not make Destiny 3,
there's a reason why they left Microsoft. They don't just want to rehash the same thing over and over again. They want to do different things obviously, right?
Um this

like creators want to do different things. Like oh that's a big surprise, you know? Um you know
I don't know, man. If you're going to do a shooter, do the shooter, right, that everyone's asking for. Like,
everybody asking for Destiny 3. Really? People out here asking
more than marathon.
Well, sure, but like are they, you know, like sometimes you have to do something different, you know, because you want to like explore different ideas, you know?
I don't know. I feel like sometimes
Budgie also has like an incubation team where they think of like new ideas, right? Cuz they want to like they want to be creative. It's a creative studio, you know? I don't know. I like this is where I feel like we're so segmented as a industry in North America. Like I feel like we have all these conferences like GDC is coming up which they rebranded and the the I feel like the studio here has need to get together and recognize there's a crisis right now and kind of get our [ __ ] together.
Otherwise, it's collapsing. Like
I I don't think the answer to crisis is

more sequels. No, but we need hits.
Yeah, but I also don't think new sequels equals hits either, right? Like that's part of our problem.
Just playing Resident Evil 9 and I'm looking at it and I'm like this is the greatest game ever.
Yeah.
I would say I would say I would say when Resident Evil games make sequels
Yeah.
they reimagine the gameplay like a lot.
Yes, of course. And and that's the thing like people have like this bad idea of what sequels are.
Yeah.
And they're uh they can be
you know
I guess
as well done as that.
That's the argument for why why uh re-imagine Marathon as a extraction shooter. But I would say I would say Marathon is such an old IP that doing the remake first makes sense. But
I'm just worried, man. like we're we're we're

like I've said this a lot. I'm still seeing it right there this um de devestment of uh of young developers, right? Like that that group is gone. No one's hiring young developers anymore. And then the old designers are also gone. Like I feel like uh if no one's talking about it, we should start talking about it. how we're kind of cutting off the breathing supply of the industry right now, right? If you're not investing in young developers, they're never, you know, there's no one to hand the keys over, right, when we're gone. And then if you're getting rid of the old guys, right, then these games going to suck and uh exhibit A high guard, right? And like I I feel like I mean what what games are you looking forward to this year?
Let's just start with that.
Uh Crimson Desert.

Crimson Desert. All right. Eastern game. Is that an Eastern game?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the that game looks nuts, right?
That game looks awesome. Even I was like
excited about it. And then what else?
Uh what else? What else is on the horizon this year?
What games are coming out this year? I can't even think about Oh, GTA.
Yeah.
Me, me, and everybody else in the world, basically. Um,
and that's not even North America. That's in freaking
I mean, it's mixed. It's It's uh
they they have studios in
some of it is made in Canada for crying out loud, right? Um, and that's unchecked. As much as as a lot of people don't know, a lot of a lot of Americans don't know, but Canada is part of North America. Um, so
yeah, it counts. Uh,
but their main studios in um where is it? In uh
in Europe, I forget where.
Dublin.
Dublin, right?
Which is crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Games this there's Marathon, right? And Marathon's coming a full full release too soon.
Um
they have to, man. Running out budget.
Yeah. Timberorn comes out this week. Trying to see if like if there what is like the what is something that is like on the horizon that I'm like really excited for?
I think that's it. This is GTA 6 Crimson Desert
Horizon. Um Forza Forza Horizon. There's something I'm missing.
Diablo 4 expansion
apparently. Oh, this is just me being a nerd. Dead or Alive 6 is coming out this year. Um,
well, Wolverine's coming out in September.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marvel's Wolverine.
That's it. Well, I mean, thank God is coming out with something.
No, honestly, in the year of GTA 6, I

would just avoid making a video game, quite frankly. Right. Um but yeah, there's there's a lot of things um that are like to be determined or whatever, but um but yeah. Yep.
Yeah. GTA 6. Yeah. November at least. So if you have games coming out, release it now basically. And March seems like it's kind of packed with like a lot of games probably for that reason. Um get it out early. Also Q1 that March is like the end of Q1 for a lot of folks.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Well, I mean I think we talked about everything that we wanted to talk about. There's a lot of catching up to do. Uh yeah, this game I'm looking at this list of games coming out and I'm not very enthusiastic about it. I see Crimson of Desert, GTA 6, Wolverine.

That's it. I see a lot of remakes.
That's like AAA, right? But but I think there would be a lot of indie games. I play a lot of strategy games. There's a lot of strategy games that are out now or coming or in early access.
Um it's I just, you know, like there's so many games that get released every day now. That's kind of crazy.
Yeah.
Um so there's always something that I'll find to play. But but yeah, I think those are the big ones, you know. Crimson Desert, GTA 6, Marathon.
Yeah,
no one's marathon. I hope it did you well. I mean, I don't want Bungee to be whatever, but Sony haven't, ironically enough, even with Bungie, I haven't been doing well with multiplayer games. So,
yeah,
it's such a weird problem to have. I I do want to end with this. I don't I can't believe we just almost skipped this the whole Xbox thing, right? So,
I've been saying it for years. I think

they finally realized it, right? Phil Spencer's retiring, quote unquote,
and then uh who was the lady again? The vice uh
Sarah
President Zarapon is stepping away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh some other lady. So, the the controversy, well, I don't even think it's controversy. talks is like the the some um the the new person that's stepping in doesn't come from the industry. She works from Instacart or something like that, right? From the tech tech industry or something.
Well, she also did AI at Microsoft. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So, the the argument is like, well, is it, you know, is it wise to have someone outside the industry to come in and try to fix a brand like Xbox that's very gamer focused? And the other side of it, it's like, well, maybe that's what we need because we did have someone hardcore for 10 years and he just slowly killed it to death for 10 years.
Yeah, I would say I don't. Yeah, I'm so

torn because I I do think the the direction that Microsoft is trying to go is probably what is going to end up happening eventually with consoles. Like I've been saying for a while, I don't I I don't think we're going to have another generation really of consoles or I think I always say like I think this generation of consoles about to come out is the last one
because it's increasingly not making any sense um in terms of like what what made you buy a console before
like when when you saw when you got your PlayStation 2 or whatever,
right? What made you say you wanted your PlayStation 2? What were the reasons behind that? You know,
exclusives.
See how quickly you answered, right? And then and then um in this in this in this appetite of this world, right? Like like Sony has like some of the best exclusives out there. Um but even that they are like, "Yo, we need to put these on on PC, too."

They are stepping back. I've been reading that they they're pulling back from their PC ports uh for that very reason. Yeah. But but money money still needs to be made, right? And and they and they are um and they are also like what they do with their they they give their exclusives like a year of exclusivity, you know, and then like after a year then oh it's on PC now. They acquired a whole company
that are experts at doing PC ports.
Yeah.
To do the PC ports, right? So like like it's a whole thing that that they know they
but they even then they
so much more money from that, right?
Yeah. I'm I'm wondering what Sony's doing. I I I have been reading that they're pulling back from that. It's the reason why I skipped the PS5. I've always bought every PlayStation
because they
Yeah. And PS5 Yeah. And PS5 is like like very impressive. There's some like good exclusive on there. I think Astrobot, you know, Astrobot's like an incredible game, right?
But I think over time like they need to

continue growing, right? And so they need to the games need to be more in more places, right? I I think this is like an economics thing straight up.
I get it. But I think the pro I'm not so much arguing against Xbox's strategy. Xbox everywhere. This is an Xbox,
right?
Funny enough. Like that kind of backfired. It's like this is not
Yeah. I think I think all those things all like that's the things like I think whenever Microsoft does something
Yeah.
they always do it early.
Yeah. Yeah, they rush it
and then they always mess up the marketing, right?
And so like TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, right? Like that was a big big mess up, right?
Yeah.
Um
where do you watch for a lot of people?
Where do you watch your Netflix now today? Where do you where do you where do you watch your your Hudoo and your Disney Plus? And a lot of people the only device they have to do that on is their console, right? And that's

available on every console. Yeah, right. Uh, so TV TV TV. Oh, guess what we're doing? We're watching TV on our console like a lot, right? Um, so like you guys are tripping, right? Like that like that whole thing was just early, right? Um, but it was obviously the way the industry was going, right? And then um and then like now I the consoles are just glorified PCs these days. They're they're just like PCs with with different specs. Um, and just more and more and more uh people want to play their game on their Steam Deck. People want to play a game when they're on a bus. They they want to move around with it. They want to play it on different platforms. They they want to buy it once and then play it everywhere, right? Like people want that. You know what I mean?
Um like like that's what the thing with Sony right now. If you buy their exclusive again on PC, you're buying it again,
right? But but eventually like I don't know how much longer that's going to last in in the context of Sony, right?

Yeah. I mean that's why I find it um funny that um I think Steam is slowly just going to take over all the market. I mean they came out with a very convincing lineup of devices that does exactly what Xbox have been trying to do. Right. This is a Steam
Yeah. I don't know if the Steam if the Steam boxes will Steam Box part two will will be successful. I have no idea. And
I I'm getting a box. Uh
oh, dude.
To have one in your living room that plays all the games on your library.
You don't even know how much that thing costs. You can just get a mini PC. You can get a mini PC right now and play games in your library for 500 bucks.
I Okay, I get it. But uh you can get a mini
Steam box.
Yeah, I was going to say, but you can get a mini PC right now playing in your living room for 500 bucks. Yeah. Well, you know, most people won't do that and they'll buy the Steam uh verified uh device.
Exactly. Right. Yeah. And then they'll charge a premium because it's a Steam verified device. And also like right now

the hardware, the memory cost and all that kind of stuff is
Oh, yeah.
Bananas. Right. And so, um,
consoles are definitely delayed.
Yeah. And so, like, yeah, when will we see these things, right? It's very interesting. Well, let's talk about Xbox real quick, right? Just like where do you stand like having an outsider kind of fix this whatever they're trying to fix with Xbox or or do you think it's it is weird that someone who who's learning about games?
Like I guess she got in trouble recently too. People were saying that her gamer tag was being used by multiple accounts that she wasn't you know
well I also think that's that's silly too, right? Like I think trying to prove to people that no no I am a gamer. I am trying to learn right is like you're just playing into the foolishness right
where you could just be like look I I don't know nothing about this but what I do know
is business
business
right and I know how to trust my people

right and then putting like I think the fact that um what's the guy's name? Matt Booty.
Matt Booty
is is still there in charge of content, right?
Um like he's the gamer guy and he's in charge of content, right? And so like he can try to make sure that things things are still very much gamer focused, right? You have your marketing people and all that kind of stuff, right? So like trust trust your people and and run the business, right? And if running the business means a return to a more gamer focused message, if that's where the data shows, then a business person would make that right decision, right? And then the gamers get what they want, right? But to to to assume that the person needs to be like some sweaty gamer that plays that plays Arc Raiders like every day or something like that, right? Yeah. Um, no, they they got to be in meetings and they got they got a job, right? Like you know what I mean? And so um and so like I I don't know if that's

an actual it would be nice to have of course, right? But I don't think it's an actual like requirement. Um they just have to be able to make the right decisions.
Yeah. I mean I um I think having a fresh perspective uh in the game business is kind of needed right now. Like we kind of ran into the similar issue before. like I I keep mentioning it and I don't think it's emphasized enough um as lessons learned when uh during the PlayStation 2 3 era uh when people mention about that those those times it was like the best games coming out right but um there was a lot of studio closures more you know not as much as now but it was a crisis uh in the game industry like what's going on every studio is closing And it was because of an outsider industry, the mobile industry, the like the Apple, you know, phone.
Mhm.

Reinvigorated and I say re re resuscitated the game industry in a big way and completely like made it uh a success again. And and now we're seeing that kind of fizzing out
and and it introduced the concept that everybody hates. But yeah.
Yeah, of course. But like we were at a downfall, you know, then
and I I always say downfall, but I think I think the um
it was really bad.
The middle was being hollowed out, right? And it was just the triple AAA was left
and then mobile roses like the casual, right?
And then yeah, the indie crowd and then you got the Steam green lit green light or whatever.
Yeah.
It really reinvigorated that model. So, I see a similar thing happening with Xbox where they didn't they I I do I am in favor of her coming in from the outside and uh and looking at the business as a business, right,
unfiltered and and seeing what work and

what doesn't work. I do think they need to go back to exclusive this Xbox everything. I I get what you're saying too, like they're just too early on things.
Exclusives are dead. Like there's there's no
they have to go back to exclusives, man.
There's no way to make money. Yeah.
Exclusives. It's just not possible.
Well, well, that's why I'm [ __ ]
You spend like a damn near billion dollars on a game, you can only sell it on one place. Are you crazy? No. Can't do that.
Well, that's why I'm interested in seeing what Sony does because they're they are pulling back from their PC ports.
They want to emphasize their console as being their ecosystem to control.
Sure.
Their IPs.
Sure. And uh I mean in their own way, you know, they've done this is Xbox everywhere. You know, they don't tout as much, but they have their online version of their libraries. Uh
in my opinion, a stronger library. I I uh I have both for a little while. And I do prefer the games on PlayStation more than the Xbox. Um

just Game Pass stuff.
Let's be real. Like we did it to ourselves though, right? Like budgets ballooned, right? And and like literally a game aaa game budget could approach a billion dollars, man.
Yeah. It's a lot.
Like it's a lot of money, right? And you just cannot recoup that.
It's not sustainable
sitting in one place, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. I I I I want to see what happens then
because I I think everybody wants Xbox to be a a major pillar. It remain a major pillar. Um, I mean it's talking about North America game. It's the only North America console, right? Uh,
who cares?
Well, brand that's big.
Yeah, who cares? I don't I don't know if that matters that much, right? But but that's that was a big thing. Yeah, it was like, oh yeah, we finally got our own our own console, right? But um you know
Yeah.
I think we just need to be competitive again. Like
I just put it like this. Microsoft is a software company. Yeah,

they've always and whether their software is any good or not, that's a a totally another debate, but they're a software company. They're not really a hardware company and um and they've shown some some improvement in their hardware capabilities, right? But but there's a reason why, you know, people like Sony more a lot of cases, there's a reason why Nintendo is just killing everybody. Um, like these these dudes know how to make hardware, you know.
What what's this uh how do you feel about this rumor that they're basically this move of them changing guard is kind of like their way of sunsetting Xbox?
I think it's Xbox's last chance.
Yeah.
It's it's like it's it's like, hey, we need to turn this around or or it's it's done, right?
Yeah. Because a few years ago they they they there was a mandate of making 30%
Yeah. are right
which is
which they never hit which is
which they never hit

and it was like a mandate and you know Microsoft as a whole is so much more than X I don't think Xbox have ever really
uh made any impact
in terms of the Microsoft business
but in this day and age you can't have divisions that are loss leaders anymore um they want everything they want they need growth and profit everywhere
so so it's just kind of on its have a write off anymore.
It's on its last legs right now. Yeah.
So, what what what do you see a scenario where they're just selling off all their
No, first party studios or
they are a software company, man.
So, they're just going to be
if they make if they make games that can make money Yeah, that can make money. They don't need to sell hardware. They really don't. Um and that's that's kind of what the whole plan is. Listen, some people are like, "Oh, but this going to lose its identity and all this kind of stuff." Right. I hear I hear it, but um but like it just doesn't money. It just

doesn't make money. Yeah. Yeah.
It's been lost.
And like And could they have done a better job of like of like, you know, Xbox is the hardware platform um and and had more games for it ready and have a better plan and have more exclusives and all of that. Um, yes, but but at the same time, games also became like way more expensive to make, way longer to take, right? And and hiring talent is super hard. And like the whole thing just became really hard. And that's why they bought Activision. It's kind of like a a band-aid to that problem. Just get a whole bunch of IP and content as quickly as possible. Um, but it's still, you know, these things are, it's hard to move a big AAA production that fast, right?
Yeah. So, with the new Xbox boss saying that they they want to reemphasize the brand and

talk about what I swear she she wrote something about exclusives, right? I mean, what was she saying? Let me look that up again.
No, she she just said the brand. I I don't think she really I think people might have read that in into it, but I think it was more like the brand Xbox as a brand would be like
revisit it.
Bring it bring it back, you know. Um I don't think that's like let's make let's double down on Xbox Series X. Like I just don't know. I just don't see it.
Yeah. So it's just so uh
we'll see it.
The next five years is just so uncertain for on all front. just games like what's going on? I'm going to have robots taking over jobs or is Xbox going to be around?
Yeah, man.
So many things are changing where it's like it's hard to kind of plan it.
But uh yeah, you know, I wanted to kind of mention that because that was big news. Um, I hope Xbox survives, but

I don't know. Like, if there's less and less people buying, uh, I mean, honestly, I think it's going to be up to the like the smaller teams, the indie crowds to kind of come up with new ideas. If they're if they're out of the game, that means a, you know, a major publisher not shopping around, you know, that that that doesn't help, right? Only hurts the business. So, I think whatever Xbox is playing into, hopefully they just
invested in vested back into game developers, right?
Yeah. Like just just you just got to make good games with with the Xbox branding on it and games that people want to play and bring back that community and the togetherness that was there back in the day. like Xbox 360 was I played a lot of Dead or Alive on that's why I'm looking forward to Dead or Alive 6. I play a lot of Dead or Alive on um on 360.
Mhm.
Like a lot. Right. And so like that

Well, I mean she's saying she's saying return to hardware. I I don't think they're ditching hardware, man.
Sure.
That's what she's saying.
Sure. That's cool. That's a cool story. Cool story, bro.
Cool story.
I hope they All I care about is I hope Xbox doesn't buy Steam. That's all I care about. That keeps popping up every year or two and it scares the [ __ ] out of me.
Do they even have enough money to buy? Like I don't you know like what's the price? What's what's the price? What would what would it take?
Billions and billions of dollars.
Crazy. Yeah.
I mean I I have no I mean they spent $70 billion on Activision.
Yeah.
They have money.
What's What's funny is I I I'm old enough to remember when Steam was hated on.
Yeah. It was really hated on. That's crazy. What do you think about that? That's crazy
how they turned it around.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, I mean, let's see. Let's see how it goes. It's just like I I
I know a lot of people that listen to the Round Table news think we're just hating on the industry all the time.

Like, hey, dude.
If there's things to celebrate, I'll be celebrating, right? It's not my fault.
There's plenty of things. There's plenty of things to celebrate, bro. Like, we make games. there's more games that ever coming out, which is like cuz you see as a good or a bad thing, whatever, but it's more people are able to get their vision and their ideas out and and be get people to play their games that probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
Yeah.
Like I mean
the fact that any game exists is a miracle as we all know. Um
it's great. Yeah.
Yeah. Right. But there's there's a whole lot of, you know, there's a whole lot of like hating out there, but like at the end of the day, it's like
Yeah.
Let's just celebrate games coming out and then reward the ones that we like.
Yeah.
And then don't buy the ones you don't like, you know? Like just like
and and you know, you can call yourself indie even though you're backed by 10 cent, the biggest conglomerate ever.
Yeah.
What is that about? I I do hope that someone gets through to that team and like what happened? It'll probably be a

few months from now, you know, when the studio's down. Do what do you do do you think the studio is going to close or do you think they have a few years left?
I think like the scale down has given them some sort of runway. Um so there there is like a probably a ticking clock.
Yeah.
Right. And which is why I say probably thinking of new ideas, right? So we'll see.
Team's gone, dude.
Goodbye. Goodbye team. Yeah. I mean, if that if you had 80 people and that wasn't your the best idea, what is 20 people going to do to be honest?
All right. Well, thanks guys. That's our round table news episode. I'll see you guys next time. Hit us up. Let us know what your thoughts are. Uh lers. Peace.