Steam’s VR Sellout, Pokemon Saved & Is Blizzcon Back? | Games For Breakfast

[music] Good [screaming] morning, MATT.
GOOD MORNING, WILL.
GOOD MORNING TO ALL OF YOU.
WELCOME to Games for Breakfast, the only internet talk show. We talk about this week's gaming and tech news, but then also I'm going to do a science experiment with you. Now, this might not be the way you're supposed to use a French press. In fact, it's so cold cuz there's ice and milk in it. But I had this other thing and now we're gonna see what it looks like just because I want to see. It's not even doing any changes. I thought this would be more impressive.
Stir it.
There we go.
Oh, wow. Wow. We're getting the full on the full-on swizzle stick ice coffee uh ASMR.
All right. Now, it's funny. In the pre-show, pardon me. In the pre-show, people were like, "Matt, sell me on the French press." And I'm like, "I'm using it very wrong today."
Yeah, that's right. iced coffee in a French press

because now you put the cap on, right? Right. And you push this down. You make sure thing like that and then you get your chroma keyed mug of choice and you pour it and hopefully coffee comes out. Hold on. Wait. Wait. There we go. It's not It froze it in a bad position. This is slow. It's got a good curve to it though.
I mean it it is quite majestic. Like that is that is the kind of pour that we would like film for like an advertisement.
WOW.
ELEGANT.
OKAY. OKAY.
Sublime iced coffee by Extra Credits.
That's pretty good.
It's like all black and white except for the coffee is like the only caramel color like in the shot.
We have like some mysterious figure in the background like waving a gauzy flag or something. It's like one of the weirdest like commercials, like the perfume commercials. Weird,

right? Also, there was I was basically making like a a faux iced latte with a with a uh with a compressed freeze-dried coffee product. And uh it's pretty tasty, not going to lie. It uh it's supposed to have twice the caffeine. We're going to find out because I don't have much left.
Okay, great. Excellent. Well, I'm going to sip my normal caffeine.
Good. What flavor of Monster is it today, Will?
Uh, this is the Zero Ultra. It's the It's the one that tastes kind of like if Citrus had been in the room with it.
Can you taste it in all three dimensions?
No, I can't actually taste Monster in three dimensions. I could taste Rockstar or Red Bull in three dimensions because they have like
Okay, Monster is an energy drink for people who like fizzy things that also keep them awake. Rockstar and Red Bull are energy drinks for people who like being kicked in the teeth to wake them up.
Right.
Also, Dark, I'm so glad the abuse and

the mismanagement of my French press has convinced you to get a French press. Uh, particularly I may I recommend as a brand off the street in New York City. Uh, not and I guess it's not really a brand, that's just where I found this one. Um, so may I suggest that for your acquisition? Uh, it's it's free. But anyway,
we do not officially endorse using kitchen wear that you found on the street. It's not
I DO. OH, I absolutely do. No, no, you wash it. You make sure it's clean. You don't just pick it up and drink out of it straight off the sidewalk. But yeah, and that's one of the things I love about New York City is is I love putting old stuff that I have out. We actually got some new dishwear after the wedding. We put the other dishes out and those are gone. like like it it it is a constant like you it's a constant free stoop sale like everywhere like people put out stuff all the time my shoe rack I got from the street like I don't know I think it is I think it is absolutely wonderful that there is a um a reuse

community rather than just throw stuff away
okay all right
you wash you wash anything I washed this
yeah you know no I think I think there's never pick up anything soft
right nothing else is fair game Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a very good RC. Good point. Yeah. You don't want anything soft or anything that is like a couch. [laughter]
Yeah. Yeah. Don't Don't Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh Yeah. No. And whatever you do, don't replace the water in your coffee maker with Red Bull. Don't do it.
Don't Yeah. Don't Don't do it. Is not good.
Wow. Oh, hey. Uh a reminder. No, that's not a good reminder. We'll not worry about that.
What? How am I going to know not to worry? We should start the show. We've been we've been meandering too much.
I feel like that's fine. So, we should start with today's main course. [music]
Okay. So, today's main course is is different than your normal main course.

Okay. So, you know how sometimes your main course is one thing, all one thing. And sometimes you get like a pick two with like a soup and salad kind of deal.
Yeah. When you're here, you're family,
right? Yeah. This
when you're here, you're Brad or Janet or Rocky.
Yeah, that's right. And that's a kind of family all its own. But that that that is that is today's story. So, we got we got two big lead stories for you today. One of them uh is about the Steam frame. I wanted to say index and I was like that's wrong. That's not what it is.
It's not the index anymore. It's the frame
chat by by show of hands hype or me me. Who got a pre-order for the steam frame and wants to give it to Matt.
No, don't I don't want that. I don't want the If you got it for yourself, you keep it for yourself, please. Uh I did not get I did not I did not uh get even I didn't even get an email. Steam ghosted me. You're supposed to get at

least like the rejection email.
Yeah.
Uh I'm not even in the queue.
Okay. All right.
I don't even know. I'm like outside the window of the queue.
Okay, great. So the Matt is the the the Snow White GIF of package.
Yeah, exactly.
But with the Q instead. Okay, great. So, um,
very limited quantity of this, much like the Steam Machine, uh, due to all of the hardware issues and whatnot.
And the price is also in part due to the rising cost of hardware components because the Steam frame, if you haven't heard, is $1,000. And that's too much money. And that's not really accurate either because
because then you need to get the ergonomic thing and the plug if you don't have a thing to plug in a Steam thing.
So it's closer to like 1,200. Um even if you get the 256 GB instead of the one TB

model,
uh it's expensive. Now is it going to be good?
Yeah, probably. I mean,
so here's here's the report so far. if people are and I know not VR is not everyone's cup of tea that I am a big advocate I've had some really wonderful experiences in VR. Uh I think the the the problem with VR obviously is sort of software adoption and getting people excited with sort of like a killer app. Halflife Alex does run natively on this thing though it does knock the graphics down quite a bit. Um but it get just getting that running on on a on a headset device is uh kind of a miracle on its own. Some some real Switch 2 energy. Um, but the reports back in have been that it's a fine machine that's on par with a couple extra bells and whistles from the MetaQuest 3, uh, but for $450 more. The thing that it actually does that people are seem to be wowed with is the wireless tethering to

be able to play games off of your actual system.
Yeah.
Uh off of your your PC itself. Uh that apparently is one of the so far the easiest and most flawless kind of implementations of that I think due to a um included dongle that does its own broadcasting and hooking up to the Wi-Fi. Nice.
Uh like it basically it tries to attack your sk your what it's trying to scan for from all areas.
Um
I I was excited for this because for two reasons. One, I really like the idea for lower lower lift VR games. Just having a headset I could put on anywhere in the house without turning on anything else or plugging in stuff. Like I feel like a lot of the barrier of entry for me to use my VR is the setup. And it's even gotten down. Like right now I just have to pull it out the the headset and pull out the the controllers that are sort of tucked away in my living room, plug it into the PlayStation, boot that up, and then I have to sometimes do the reset again. if I could just put on the

headset to play a round of Walkabout Miniolf, that would kind of be the dream. Um, for me personally, uh, but a lot of reviewers were kept being like, "Oh man, like why wouldn't anyone just get the MetaQuest 3 instead?" And I was like, "Well, I mean, obviously the money thing, big factor, a thousand%." But also, I never want to give Facebook a drop of my money ever again,
right? That's that's the big one. A lot of a lot of people are saying that it's uh $450 of not invading my privacy.
Brass did hit the nail on that. Uh and look, that's that's a lot. And it it's there's been some interviews. We have some uh uh articles in the show notes. Was it the PC Gamer? No, where was it? There was um it might have been PC Gamer. I'm just sort of clicking through. They interviewed um two of the folks. uh uh someone on the hardware team and somewhere from the software team uh PC Gamer did uh two engineers at Valve, Joy Lions, a hardware engineer and Jeremy

Selin, a software engineer. And they were both basically saying things along the lines of like so back before the RAM crisis they essentially decided how this the thing that this has that the Metaquest 3 doesn't and please correct me when I'm wrong is there's smaller things like uh eyetracking which that doesn't have which actually is pretty neat when you implement it but also I think it has double the RAM essentially of a MetaQuest 3 and they made that choice um and they wanted to make it so it's like it's a little bit more future proof and it something that you could upgrade later if you could, but make sure the base product was a really great like thing that would last for years as opposed to like doing multiple versions with different levels of RAM, etc. Then the RAM crisis happened and that is sort of the explanation as to why I don't think anyone's sort of nickel and dimming here. I think uh [clears throat] things are now rare that weren't rare before. You know what I mean?
Uh so that's very very It stinks uh for Valve. It stinks that this sort of

happened. that it's not like VR is the um the hottest uh most most sexy way to play video games on the block these days.
No.
Um and I I I was really hoping that the frame would like a bit reinvigorate uh it and and maybe it will, but I think uh with where we are now with hardware that adoption is going to be very very slow.
Yeah, I agree. Ed it is really a case of like I have a PSVR2 and we'll talk a little bit more about the PSVR 2 in a second. Um, and I have the dongle to plug it into my PC and I have every VR game available to me that I would want to purchase on Steam. And I just don't for like kind of the same reason that I don't like play on my Switch 2. It's just not my it like it requires additional movement outside of my

ecosystem. And that could be because I've got stuff to like work on in other games, right? I'm on a PAL world server with um with my partner and some of our friends. I'm on uh Final Fantasy 14 like daily because it's my daily play MMO. I've got like magic that I'm grinding. Maybe it's just that I don't need something else right now. But like I will say it does it has always felt like the there is an additional bar to adoption which is like as cool as some of this stuff is a lot of it's multiplayer and so you're playing against like the same 10 people who are awake and playing in your time slot like
I don't think that's terribly a problem. I think um but Kiwi brings up a good point like why spend a thousand bucks on something that might never see any new interesting games. Uh and I'm not trying to sell anyone on this. I think the the the the rebuttal to that I would say is there's if you if you're not a VR person

right now or or or whatnot, there are already a ton of great games you can get in VR if VR is your thing. Um, what I'm hoping is this and it the price is going to completely hinder this, but my hope was that Steam doubling down and Steam making a standalone headset that is essentially playable, like you could just have your your your uh Steam account and this headset and no computer, like you could do that, right? Um, I was hoping that that would kind of reinvigorate it in the way that something that needs a lot of setup like the Index can't. uh Valve's previous headset. Um the the reason why the MetaQuest did so well is a Facebook can run at an infinite loss. Um and so they can price it cheaper and it's its own standalone thing, right? Like I think that is one of the only ways this gets adopted. And I love that Valve also like I do love that they're like this thing has the option you can I I think there

is on the MetaQuest you can hook it up to a PC but it is a bit janky from what I understand.
Mhm.
Um Milo my Linux machines plays Warframe. Sorry Valve.
Yeah.
Yeah. Uh let's see. It's enthusiast gear. Never going to expand anyone who's interested in the tech already unfortunately but uh the effect slayer was extremely good for the future. Yeah. Like I think if if I I I a thousand% agree with May here. Uh if it were to try to break into other venues, pairing this selling the same year, the Steam Machine and the Steam Index is the way to chip away at it. Do I think it's going to be enough to like reinvigorate VR? No. But if you're going to try, this is one of the directions to do it. What they need to do now, like could you imagine a world where Halflife Alex came out

now? Like, and like I like pretend it never existed. It has all the bells and whistles of an updated game or whatever for for now. And it just came out and it came free with the Steam Frame. like that might move a needle a little bit and be a shot in the arm that the industry needs to like kind of do other things. Um, but
so I
I don't think we're there. That's not a that's not a that's not where we live now.
Here's the interesting thing. [laughter] there aren't any or there aren't enough lifestyle VR games
because I think here's you want my hot take? I don't think current technology, including this one, is built for something that is a lifestyle game. I I don't think it's comfortable to wear VR for more than a couple hours anyway.
Like I I I like that. Again, I I I'm so sorry I sound like a broken GD record

all the time, but in my opinion, the best VR game ever made is Walkabout Miniolf.
Yeah,
it is the It is the perfect game that is the right level of physicality and sociability and time like timetable and graphic fidelity and exploration. Like, it all it feels like a thing that I've already done in real life, so I know it's accurate. Like, it's it has all of the check boxes for me. Uh, and the the the level designers for that game I think are some of the best in the business. Um, but that's a game I play for an hour,
right? Or
like I'm not playing a MMO. I mean, I'm not I don't think a lot of people would like that you have to grind in for hours in VR because you get tired and your face gets tired and your eyes get tired.
There was a um there are two that come to mind. One of them is No Man's Sky. Sure.
Which does have a VR which does have VR mode, but then the question becomes, is the VR mode

more of an experience than playing on the PC? And the answer is kind of, but not really.
So, here's the thing about No, and we're going to be playing No Man's Sky on Twitch after the show today uh when we wrap up uh with the new expansion, but not in VR. It's funny. I was I was debating cracking out my I was debating cracking out the PSVR 2 and trying to make it work and do it VR on my side because we'll be watching Will's side because I've really liked No Man's Sky in VR. I think the exploration and the space flight in VR is is some next levelish. I find base building and um and like organization tricky in VR.
Yeah.
Um
anything that needs a keyboard.
Um yeah, like a mouse is going to win every day of the week when it comes to that.
Uh alas, oops. No more Destiny 2. We we completed the story. We'll be picking away at it, I'm sure. But
yeah. Yeah.
Um, let's talk about the PSVRT real quick because we we we brought it up.

It's sold out like flipping everywhere and it looks like they might not be making more. Um, it's sold out in just about every place uh that sells it. Uh, Amazon only has used ones. Um, this is also kind of an interesting thing is that as a new headset's coming on the market, one of them is like sort of quiet quitting. It looks like I I I can't imagine that this is it's Sony, right? Like Sony could make more of these if they wanted to. So yeah, I don't know. I Here's the thing. I if I'm trying to think of like cuz there's different levels of success and believe me I am well overdefending Sony cuz um for me the PSVR2 was incredible success. I've put hundreds of hours in on that thing, played dozens of games, had a great time, and I think I got my money's worth.
Yeah.
Uh and I will continue to do fun things

and I'll still hook up to the PC if I get if I get a frame eventually. That means Jamie and I could probably play the mini golf together in a way. Like there's there's fun things that can be done. Um I would not be surprised if Sony ax this because what because something before Sony decided to axe discs uh I always forgot how how much they love starting a good piece of technology and then killing it.
Yeah. it they they really really uh it's one of their favorite hobbies. Um and listen, this might be more justified than others considering that the sort of VR space is is until it gets a shot in the arm that I wish the seam frame would be. Uh it's it's kind of dead in the water. We might be waiting until AR to be more of a a more of a thing. But even AR, I've been trying to think of like an AR experience that would get me pumped. Do you know what I mean?

See, every time I think of like an AR experience that like is a pair of glasses that you put on, all I can think of is that thing from Star Trek NextGen that like took over everyone's brain.
Oh, with they're like this and the things go into the
Yeah, you're like guiding the little disc into the little mouth thing. And yeah, that's all I can think of. I can't think of like another like the the the AR games that have worked so far are
Pokemon Go
list complete.
Yeah. And also like Pokemon Go took like it's a good experience but Pokemon Go took off because it had a an IP decades in the making, right? like it it it or maybe not decades or decade but like it um we there has not been a VR game maybe Beat Sabers maybe Beat Sabers that like was a was a system

seller and that it was a brand new IP. Am I forgetting something else? Like cuz everything else was like Skyrim VR. Sky VR is great.
Yeah, we did we did a whole playrough of Sky VR.
Yeah,
that was God that was so long ago.
That was so long ago.
Yeah. So, like No, there are there are definitely apps that like work well, but most of them don't sell systems, right? There are like fun games, right? Um
again, Walk about Miniolf,
Hot Dogs, uh um
Keep Talking at Nobody Explodes. Uh Red Matter one and two, some of the best puzzle games. Uh,
pistol Whip. Absolutely phenomenal.
Pistol Whip's fire. PSVR1 had uh Russ uh Russia Blood,
which is so good. I I was so mad that um the sequel, the spiritual sequel wasn't as good.
Yeah.
Um Saints and Sinners, uh for Walking Dead, I hear is excellent.
Yeah.
The Moss games really, really fun. Like

there's lots of good VR games, but there's nothing that like I would say to a person outside of like
VR to survive needs a couple decent headsets, which we kind of have at this point, and essentially its own GTA 6, something that would excite people outside of the gaming space enough to do it. And it's funny because like when when Facebook bought the Quest, I saw actually show of hands sort of with some friends that that were in the space around then uh in chat right now in Brad and Janet and message us on Blue Sky if this happened to you. I noticed when Facebook first re-released the Quest as the MetaQuest or whatever the couple first versions of that were, the standalone headsets, tons of my like nonvideo game friends, a lot of TV people uh bought them and were losing their minds like would have parties around the things. It was it

felt it felt like a like a late 20s, early 30s rock band scenario, right? where you like it would be a thing you bust out at a party and you play the the plank walk game or you know you do you know other stuff like that. It so it had like a moment when Facebook tried to make it ubiquitous until they blew like a trillion gajillion bajillion dollars on the no legs metaverse and uh that just didn't uh go anywhere. Now it's weaker than ever. Did your cat just flip around on the thing? Yeah, we heard it.
Yeah.
Yeah. I have no idea what she's doing, but she's doing something.
I guess what you know what I'd like to hear, too? Uh, let's see if I actually That was I think who Okay. Okay. What What's the best question, Will? Is it who engages with VR currently or who wishes VR was more prominent?

Which is the better question?
I think that those might be close to a circle. Yeah, you're probably right. Okay. Who in in both chats who engages you can say yes or no. Who who who uses VR in the year of some lord 2026? I would like to know.
Yeah. Also, I think this is a really um this is a really great point while we do this. We need the COD FIFA Madden quilt. Something you would expect someone's grandma to pick up the latest version of before the holidays.
Yeah, that that is definitely it, right? Like I'm gonna Hold on. I'm gonna pop open up in Steam while we while we're doing this. Let's go to Steam.
Okay,
let's go to categories. Let's go to uh so I if I'm reading my anecdotal Oh man, I haven't used my Rift 2 in years. Uh, if I'm sort of looking at this anecdotally, it seems like 65ish% 70%ish

are no or have sold it or have done something else. Uh, Bob is running Cyberpunk in VR, which I hear is very fun. Um, yeah, I'd say 70 to 75%. But yeah, and then this is interesting too, like Travis, I don't play VR. I don't use VR, but also wish it was more prevalent. Yeah. don't want to stand. Hold the Yeah. So, like if if if the hardest of of of a hardcore sort of gamer people who keep track of this who watch a breakfast talk show on a Friday about gaming and tech news, only roughly 30 35% maybe of them are Whoa.
Hi, Clover.
Uh uh are are engaging with this.
Uhhuh. I think that kind of also answers a bit of a of a not not necessarily a question, but a uh sort of why the PlayStation

uh PSVR 2 is not uh showing up anymore and why um there's only so many indexes.
Yeah, like Oh, that's kind of cool. So, what do you got? Hit me. Uh,
the There is Okay, so there's the next I'm I'm going down the list of like new new games and the only thing that like looks really innovative that isn't just like gritty Unreal Engine game that we happen to make in VR, which is unfair on like 12 levels and I, you know, but it is what it is. um is the group that made Job Simulator has another game coming out called Stellar Cafe,
but that's like
Oh, I've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. It looked really fun.
But and it's like 10 bucks. Um and that's like it though.

And I'll say this, like in in my opinion, what do you got?
Okay, that is really cool. They have a um they have a an experience that helps you understand what it is like to be blind by giving you tactile feedback to your controllers as you navigate a world using a cane.
Whoa.
That's really cool. That's a good use of VR. But like is it a game?
Yeah. Right.
Right. Or is an experience?
And I'll say this. I think that like I think the great like as far as like a AAA level uh VR experience, Resident Evil 4 in VR uh specifically on the PlayStation 5 was transcendent.
Mhm.
Uh that was a uh I think that's better than Halfife Alex in my opinion. Like it's it's crazy good. Um so it's I I think here's what I'm sort of seeing with with the the

anecdotal stuff. Will saying the aneotal stuff. I'm seeing a couple people in chat saying that they have specific type of thing like it's not that there aren't cool things out there. It's that I think uh I forget who said this but someone hit the nail on the head in chat and they in I think it was in Janet where they said basically like it's not the same as picking up a switch or a controller.
Yeah.
Because you have to strap something to your face. And also the thing that I've realized too, so especially now, uh, you know, uh, living with my partner for a few years, being married now, like VR, unless you're both doing it, is a really isolating experience for the other person in a house. Like I don't play VR when Jaime's home. Not because she's ever asked me to or not because uh, any other reason other than it it like it almost feels rude to me.
It's atocial.
Yeah. like to but to a point where like I can be in here playing video games and she can be sketching or whatever, but

like one of us could yell to the other one like and it's weird because you like, "Oh, but what if I if you put on headphones and you're listening to music or watching a movie like that and you're and you're separated?" It's there's a difference between like the whole idea of a VR headset is like
blocking out the world and that's fun in a lot of ways, but when I'm around another person, uh, I find it I find that I I'm not comfortable.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
And you feel like a huge dork. The thing I can't believe the Apple Vision Pro came out. Like
Oh, yeah. That's a thing that technically existed. I know we've talked it's it's the it's the virtual boy uh of Apple products. Um I we've talked about this before. VR and AR will only catch on the second it can be built into something that is either really cool looking on your face or you don't notice it's on your face.

Yeah. like if if the if cell phones if our magic space uh bricks actually uh you had to like strap it to to the front of your nose when it came out, it wouldn't have taken off.
There there's a reason that one of like the fundamental underlying ideas of cyberpunk is that it's either in your eye or on your eye.
Yeah.
Right. that like all of the augmented reality stuff is either an is either like directly in your optic nerve or it's a contact lens.
The second a piece of technology has to rest on your face, it has to be aesthetically pleasing and be fashionable. And I know that sounds like
if you Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Like if you can get to like sunglass size
and do not get me wrong, I'm not the the meta glasses are also a nightmare.
That's not it. Like
it's because it's Facebook.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Futurama's iPhone. That's correct.

Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's it's an interesting time where like people including myself are scrambling for a VR headset with all of the things. I think I think this is what it comes down to. I want to believe I want to believe that this part of the hobby can be saved. Uh I'm also in a unique position because our job makes it something like a tax write off and like there's there's different there's different ways that it makes sense in my in my camp. Um but I cannot in good conscience say that this is a product I would recommend to everyone because that wouldn't make any sense. Um, yeah. I I just I want to I want to support swings I'd like to see if I can.
And I think that's why I'm going for it. Like in a world where I'm pulling away a lot of I mean I I'll be pulling away my spend from PlayStation, right? Like in the coming years. Um

so I'd like to move that spend to to say, "Hey, I'd like this thing with my money." Um, will is that feudal in this case? Maybe. But I bet you also I'll have some fun in the couple years to come. If if I ever if it ever apparates into an actual thing, I'll check my email right now.
All right. Well, Matt, check his email. I'll tell you about the second story in our in our two-part main course.
Was gone was coming last weekend. Um, and lots lots of announcements. Uh, so some of them more exciting than others. I would say in general though it was a very interesting return to form for Blizzcon in that it felt like it broke containment of the Blizzard news sphere um for a bunch of really interesting reasons. Um so let's
I'm in the queue
but that doesn't really mean anything.
Thanks Gabin.
Yeah, he's watching
from his nine yachts. I don't know which

one.
Yeah, right from all of them. Matt, we're on all the screens in all the yachts. Just like when they made the mistake of putting us on the televisions on breakfast and we were like, "You're dreaming. You're dreaming. Wake up."
Sorry to go back away from the Blizzcon thing, but like this the message is weird. Can I read the message?
Yeah, sure.
You're you're officially in the reservation queue for the Steam frame. When the Steam frame becomes available, we will send you a separate email with options to purchase. Then you have three days to complete the purchase or cancel your reservation and move on to the next person in the queue. Okay, cool. What does it mean when it becomes available?
Yeah, you get Yeah, you will get to buy one from the initial stock
once they have it.
Huh. But that shouldn't it say that? I don't know. I just This doesn't tell me anything. At least I was I was upset that I got no response. I would have wanted this or like a sorry next time.
Anyway, sorry. I'm back. This is not about me. This is about HEY, BLIZZCON'S BACK.

YEAH, Blizzcon's back. So, bunch bunch of interesting announcements out of Blizzcon. Um, some of them good, some of them weird. So, we'll we'll talk ABOUT
HANS IS BACK, BABY.
YEAH, THAT'S THE BIG one for me is that Heroes of the Storm is returning.
Let's play Heroes of the Storm.
I mean, we we probably will when it comes back. It is my MOA uh to play with friends of choice. If I'm going to be real sweaty, I'm going to play Deadlock. If I'm going to want a headache, I'm going to play Dota and
Sweaty Spaghetti.
And if I want to play a fun game with my friends, I'm going to play Hots because only Matt, we got to play um Choal.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be so fun,
right? Because of the way hots works, you can do stupid things like there's a character that's both heads of an ogre magi
and so one of you cast spells and the other one is the legs.
Yeah. And like that's ridiculous, right? Like there there's a bunch of really cool stuff, but they decided to not only

announce that it's back, but announce that it's back because they're bringing Zalatath to it.
So fun.
Um, and that's that's like not a small draw, right? That's not like a, oh, we brought it back and we're doing a bunch of balance updates and there's a new map, right? This is like, hey, this character from World of Warcraft, that's a big deal and lots of people understand and like the character design. Yeah, you're going to be able to play her in Heroes of the Storm, which is
wild. Yeah.
Um, also, just to back up for a second,
yeah,
the reason why, uh, question mark. Uh, so I don't I know Blizzcon, it wasn't around last year. It was, but it wasn't around the year before. Like Blizzcon throughout the Microsoft years
has been a little bit strange.
Yeah.
At least from an outsider and and because I've fallen off of the the Blizz Blizzard fandom overall. I used to like

buy the virtual ticket. I used to like plan my weekend around like watching all the announcements and putting it on a giant projector and like maybe having some friends over and like I have like they used to sell like kits that came with like I have like the a Warcraft Stein and like a bunch of other like I was in it. Um and so uh when I when I'm sort of saying the question mark this one at least in the news cycle anyway feels like there's echoes of what Blizzcon used to feel like. Um I don't know if that's true or not. Did anyone I mean actually it'd be wild if anybody in chat actually went to Blizzcon or did the virtual ticket this time and Brad or Janet if uh if you did please let us know.
And while you're responding it's time for us to do fake ads. So let's do let's do fake ads while people respond and uh then we'll uh we'll get back to it and we'll talk about all of the announcements besides the most important one that is coming to hots. Um,
yo, dude, she's got her grippers out in the hots announcement. They knew what

they were doing.
They knew what they were doing.
They knew what they were doing.
All right. Uh, Will, would you like to go first?
Uh, sure.
3 2 1 go.
Hey everybody, Will from Extra Credit. So, Matt from Extra Credits who just hit the button for the music on the fake ad that you're now watching for a thing that you can't buy. Consider not sleeping. That's right. right? With all these game announcements and all this VR stuff and not having enough time, just don't sleep, right? Just give it up. Like a bad habit. Surely you with the power of the internet, caffeine, and fortitude can simply don't sleep. That's right. Go down to like 4 hours a night. Surely there will be no deletterious long-term effects from this and you can just like play video games, right? That's like sleeping, but you're awake and enjoying [music] yourself instead of asleep and having nightmares about not playing video games. Don't sleep.
It's a great ad. It's great. I think I think it's [laughter] really
I love I love I love I love Wolf Links.

I'm not sleeping right now.
That's right. WOW. IT'S ALREADY IT'S ALREADY COMING TRUE. But have you But have you tried Hey everyone. Matt from Extra Credits next to Will from Extra Credits who just talked about Matt from Extra Credits next to him at Extra Credits in the Animated Kitchen at at extra credits.org.edu. Now, have you heard of not sleeping? Will just talked about it a bunch and I think it's a great idea. In fact, the only way that I would say you should sleep is in a VR headset. That is right. Could you imagine never ever ever closing your eyes except with the hum of a very light screen blaring at you? perhaps with colored blocks flying at you and you're closing your eyes trying to get away. And maybe you'll get so tired that eventually slumber will come and you'll only hear sandstorm in your nightmares.
I mean, I'm sold.
Yeah, I think it's great.
I don't know. I got nothing.
Yeah, [laughter]
I didn't know the character. You had me

Google.
The character's name is Zalot. sometimes called zattozies because one of the big things that Blizzard decided to do was have her be barefoot and also floating so you could see her feet at all times which some people are like I see what you did Blizzard just like when um and and Blizzard isn't alone in this, right? Just like when Valve did Vindicta, the weird blue sniper lady, also no shoes also floats around.
Her name is Vindicta. Yeah, her name is Vindicta and she shoots people in the head.
Hi, I'm Rage Gore. [laughter] You're just taking
Yeah. No, correct. Yeah, 100%. No, no, no. It's fine.
Oh, well, even just like I mean, it's not like Look, it's not like this is a new thing in video games. Borderlands 4's new character is a lot uh Loveless.

I don't know if you've seen Loveless uh running it around hot diggity. Uh anyway, the there's a lot of that going around, but Blizzcon.
So, uh new character for Hots.
Yep. and and hots returning with the new PTR patches, new balance, returning to some amount of development, which I'm I'm actually very excited for. From like uh all all jokes about Zotath aside, I I think it it is a very big move that Blizzard is returning to this space and they led Blizzcon with this announcement
which I think is another really big move, right? That they like start that at the top.
Rageore DLC for Fixel Sticks. We're on it. Fixel 16, we need to include guest character Ragegore uh in the new expansion.
Yeah.
Also, also Ragegore complete midriff open that it you can't you have to you have to give the people what they want,
right? Exactly.
Ragegore, you need to see Ragegore 16

pack.
Yeah, that's right.
Ragegore is not human by the way. [laughter]
Sure, that doesn't matter. They they are bipedal and have a 16-pack. Someone
ragecore is an anthropomorphic set of abs.
Someone will still be normal about this. [laughter]
All right. Uh,
rage core is only midrift.
Yeah.
What if what if midrift was rageor's last name? Rageore midrift.
Now we're starting to get into like dungeon crawler Carl Mantar territory.
I've not read it. I don't know what that means.
So a mantar is half man, half man. That's stupid.
So, it's it's a
not like Ragegore, Midrift, which I'm going to write down.
No, mantars are it's a person with a torso that ends where someone else's shoulders would be if that person were on all fours.

I know Dungeon Crawler Carl is good.
I know it. Too many people I respect tell me it's good.
So I I I want I want everyone to understand that I know in my heart of hearts it's good.
Everything I hear about it I my eyes roll so hard you can hear it three rooms away. That's the point. Yeah. I guess I don't know. It hasn't gotten me psyched to do it.
No, that's fair. That's fair. I think I think it's also important to know that most of what people are are mentioning is stuff that isn't critical or fundamental to the
I know I'm hearing the memes. I I understand it and I will read it. I will get there. I will
you ever chat? This has to it can't just be me, okay? I'm not just talking about dungeon crawler call. This is actually like a this is actually a uh an interesting social experiment question.

Have you ever, and if you have, I'd love to know what property this is, that there is something that everyone loves and everyone won't shut up about, and people that you love and respect are telling you it's the greatest thing in the world, and the the bad little lizard person in the back of your head, this defiance, vindicta, if you will, is just like, "No, right. You will not engage." Do you have that? Like, yeah. So, Mirthth has something here. My friend refused to watch Arrested Development. Firefly like I I'm sure that they I keep [laughter] licorice.
Sure.
I just I I I need to know other people's wife feels that way about the Matrix. Yep. It was Game of Thrones. Yep. Uh,

let's see. GTA, Undertale, yes. Diablo, all games. We can't wait for our next we're talking about.
Yeah.
But it's funny, right? Like Stranger Things. Yes. Like these are culturally significant things that you're just like, "No, you move.
[laughter]
And it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I I cling to them anyway.
I don't think it needs to make a lot of sense. All right. Uh Matt.
Yes.
As our resident Hearthstone afficionado.
OH, EVERYONE GET IN HERE. That's Diablo. Uh but we can talk about Diablo. Diablo I got announced. Um they are. So, okay. I love Diablo II. I know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea. Uh, but I really really enjoyed it and I loved Diablo II in the original Diablo. Um, and Diablo I

4, I think due to some of the monetary practices and due to the fact it was coming out around Diablo Immortal and and just there was lots of it that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. It felt like it was trying to cosplay in Diablo I skin from the outside but also wrap it in so many microtransactions that I couldn't breathe. Now, I don't know if that's true or not. That's what it felt like to me as an outsider. So, I didn't engage with it. Anytime I've wanted to play Diablo, I boot up Diablo II. And I know um you were playing uh Path Path of Exile.
I have played both Path of Exile and Last Epoch.
Yeah, Epoch. Yeah. Um so, so Diablo I got announced and essentially the the the big difference here is that that the story line has actually kind of moved forward in a meaningful way. Uh Diablo, apparently the game starts I think seven years after Diablo 1. Uh and now there's like no like um there's no safe haven. All the cities

have fallen.
Um and it's uh they they're saying like I thought four was trying to go back to Grim Dark, but now they're like, "No, no, no, for real, we're going back to Grim Dark." Um, there's not a ton of information about it yet other than this will have the most classes at any launch of a Diablo game, which I think is pretty cool. Um, and uh, yeah, we'll we'll see how it sort of shakes out.
It did come with an announcement, however, that Diablo I is not receiving any more development, and that has gotten a lot of people like a little concerned because this isn't supposed to come out for two years. So, Diablo fans feel like they're a drift. Um, if you're a Diablo fan and you feel a drift, consider play Path of Exile for two years.
Yeah. [clears throat]
Either you'll hate it or you'll hate Diablo or you'll somehow manage to love both of them despite being very different entries in the ARPG genre and then you'll go back to Diablo 5. Yeah. Or last.
Also, Grim Dark is is uh is Rage Gore

Midrift's daughter.
Okay.
Canonically.
Yeah. All right. Yeah. Um, yeah, they're super similar. Uh, they're just different enough that I know that people have feelings about the differences. Uh, okay. Also announced at Blizzcon, this thing.
Oh, my boy, my sweet panda monk boy. I love Look, they haven't released many new classes in Hearthstone. There was the death knight and then there was the demon hunter. Um, and now we are finally getting monk, I believe. Is that the last WoW class to get in? I'm trying. I'm not I don't remember the differences.
Oh, the base ones are mage.
Yeah, all the base ones are there. Yeah.
Hunter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think so. I can't think of a class that I could play that isn't represented.
Yeah. Oh, so going back. This is a good thing from Sasha here because I did see this too. Uh I've been sticking with D2. don't really care about D5 because they're going to be getting the itemiz

because they're not going to get itemization, right? It did seem a little bit odd. Invoker.
Yeah, Evoker isn't isn't in there yet, but Evoker is also relatively new.
It's pretty new.
Uh but no, uh I am Listen, I still play Hearthstone. I play it more than I play Magic. Uh I am very excited for this. It it a new class always does a really good shakeup. My favorite my favorite time in Hearthstone. And it's so funny because in physical TCGs I don't like this. In digital TCGs I do like this. When a new thing comes and breaks everything, that's when my dumb ideas for decks can survive. So there's like a good 3 weeks of chaos and that's where I thrive. So I think perhaps maybe I'll try to get legend uh when Monk drops next year uh because no one will know what's going on and then uh I'll have a more even footing. [laughter]
That's fair. But I'm very excited. I'm very excited.
Rogue decks are often the way to go. Not the class. The idea of playing a non-meta deck is sometimes called

playing a rogue deck.
Um.
Yep.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Um,
so I'm very excited.
Cool. Uh, also this cinematic went so I watched this. I don't particularly like Starcraft and I was like, "Oh, hell yeah." Right. This Starcraft took a note about Hell Divers and said, "What if we still kept it cool but cut all the humor out and made it like I if you haven't watched the Starcraft trailer for their new game coming out in 2030 that's going to be an openw world shooter."
Yep. Um, I was really surprised at the direction that this sort of went because every like we've seen tragedy in Starcraft trailers or cinematics before, but I think this trailer speaks to a specific kind of moment that we're in now and a kind of moment that uh happens in different

spans of human history. Uh, and I really I don't want to spoil it, but like and who knows if that I feel like the the the feeling or the vibe of the game is going to be this. Otherwise, they wouldn't put this out as the as the trailer. Um, oh, this thing goes hard. Uh, and you know what's funny? This goes hard in a in a this is going to sound crazy, but in a realistic way. The things that are hard in this trailer are real things, even though we're dealing with Space Marines and Zerg. Whereas something like the Divinity 3 trailer goes hard, but it's so like overthe-top like nightmare fuel fantasy like that. I'm having a hard time finding any real world uh allegory that I can tie with it and therefore giving it more gravitas for me as as a person who lives IRL, right? Not that's not to say that that's a bad trailer, but that's like that's violence

and gore for violence and gore's sake and shock value. This is violence and gore, I think, with a point.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. With a point.
Uh uh if if you can handle gore, and it's not the most gory thing in the world. It's nowhere near Divinity. Um, this trailer is a master class in tying uh an actual human nightmare of our own making into a pre-existing video game world.
Yeah, it was great.
Uh, oh boy, it's it goes hard.
Yeah.
Uh,
yeah. Uh, I'm I'm I'm very Yeah. So anyway, I like with with Starcraft, Starcraft's one of my favorite IPs of all time. Uh I still play Starcraft 2 on occasion. Um I was so sad that Ghosts never kind of saw the light of day and I'm very curious

what this might be. Um,
yeah, and Dark brings up a good point from the OG Stark drivers. The rebel or prisoner being forced into war, but even then like was that the it's about time? No. Is it
hell It's about time is
hell It's about time slam down. And like that's like that's power fantasy, right?
And this is not
this is the opposite of that. [laughter] Uh, it's so uh h I hope I hope this game lives up to the trailers hype.
Yeah,
there's no guarantee it will.
Yep.
Don't forget.
Don't forget
you're here forever.
Oh, did you expect to stop? No, no, no, no.
I I will say some of the things that they're pitching here are really interesting. So, for those who aren't

following, you probably know what World of Warcraft is, but have no idea what what this is. Uh, World of Warcraft Forever is kind of like World of Warcraft Classic Plus.
I am actually going to disagree from what I've seen. Okay,
I'm going to say that World of Warcraft Forever is the design team for World of Warcraft Classic going, "Hey, Guild Wars is kind of cool." Cuz that's how it feel like the pitch that they're making is it is the World of Warcraft Classic experience up to level 60. And 60 is the hard cap. You cannot get past level 60 ever. And then it all goes horizontal. And that horizontalness screams Guild Wars to me.
Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. I'm saying and I'm not this is not a criticism of me saying World of Warcraft Classic

Plus. They're what they're essentially doing is trying because I think I think Classic was far more popular than they were comfortable with.
I agree. Um, and if and if a lot of your player base is saying, "Wow, we really like your game design from 15 years ago or whatever and not today," that's a problem. And I think so what what World of Warcraft Forever is is they're basically redoing a ton of stuff across the two original continents for the 0 to 60 game.
Yep.
Um, is it's not even like if you have a World of Warcraft account, that's just what it is, right? From what I understand, this is like you could just get the base account with whatever the latest expansion is, Midnight, and then you have access or you will have access to this when it drops, which is going to be in like two weeks. Is it is it this then Ocarina then GTA or is it
I think that sounds correct.
Yeah.
Basically, if you're keeping up with any of those, you are uh done. You you are

out of time for the rest of the year. If you're like me and not keeping up with any of those,
you got time.
Yeah. You're still out of time because you're dealing with magic. Uh,
shut up, Matt. [laughter] Reality Fracture is coming out and I have a powerful need to find out to to draft all the Jases. It's fine.
Oh, maybe it is November 4th. Well, that makes sense because isn't isn't is Oh, does Wow Forever come out, then Ocarina, then
that sounds right.
GTA.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah. You just need a starter to you there's no like starter to buy. Yeah.
Um, and Control Resident. Yeah, there's there's too many games. There's too many games. Uh, Ocarina's the fifth. Hilarious. Um, okay. So, and and it seems like what they're doing here, and some people don't like this either, like they're pairing down the skill tree and taking some things away. Um, but they're also I think a lot of the things they were mentioning they're taking away are like there are perks on the skill tree for for the classes that

everyone took because they're just baseline the best and they're like let's just make that that's baked in, right? Like that's the thing you get. That's not a point you have to spend. Like I think that's good. Um, I like the I and with the goal of with the whole goal of this entire experience feeling like it used to felt felt feeling like it used to feel when you first started in Azeroth. I'll say this about my WoW journey and I think that Pandaria where where I actually fell off before jumping back to midnight to check it out with Will a little bit ago. I think I started falling off as the worlds we kept visiting became more and more kind of not high fantasy fantastical. Like felt like the last like maybe lived in place e like even the midnight stuff and dragon um dragon's breath. What the hell was it? Dragon dragon dragonfly. Dragon flight.

Um, I I I never like felt grounded into those places. Maybe that's nostalgia, maybe it's something else, but like I I always felt like the two original islands in World of Warcraft, all of the distinct biomes and things felt like a real place. And like even like Burning Crusade when you first go through, it's so otherworldly. Like I know there are real locations and geography, but it never like snapped and vibed with me. Yeah. So, like I'm excited to see what they do with like updating thousands of quests. Also, the other part I'm excited about is the change to hardcore mode because again, hardcore mode was something that Blizzard put in uh begrudgingly and uh because to to balance something around that is hard, right? Because like what about a server crashing? What about um

like
the map?
Yeah. Or or or there are like they designed WoW to you're going to die. Like that's how they designed it. So that was like a problem for that they wanted to sort of get around this time. Apparently they're going to in all of these starting quests like for a hardcore mode there is sort of like a design if you're on that server to to make it like actually fair. It's not just a patch to make it work. Um, also will my my camera looks like it's freezing hardcore. Am I freezing on your end or am I pretty smooth?
You're not freezing. It's doing the encoder overload thing for known reason.
Well, we'll figure that out later. I guess I'll have to just You You call out if there's a problem because I can't see.
Yeah, the recording is tanked. So, I'm going to stop the recording and we'll just grab it off YouTube
for Nebula.
The second it does this, the recording

is tanked.
Interesting.
Anyway,
anyho, will that fix my error here?
It'll like clear itself up.
Yeah, it should. I have one. Oh, god. Anyway,
it's okay.
I'm gonna have to
We'll make it work.
I'm gonna have to figure this out. Yeah. Yeah, you you all are fine. Um
Everything's fine. Everything's fine on your end, Brad and Janet. Uh, luckily this is only a issue for me um and our record, but we'll be okay. We've gotten through worse. We're we're games for breakfast forever.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't know. Uh, let's see. I want to kind of see. I've been sort of yammering on about this cuz I was trying to wait and see if this would actually clean itself up. Um, and then there's people that talk through like through the story like Thunder is, right? Like, you know, after having played it, Warlords of Drainer was probably the last good story line of WoW. So, love letter to World of Warcraft fans that has been around since the beginning. Tons of Easter eggs. After that, the story started to collapse until it recovered around Dragonfly.
Yeah.
Yeah.

You should be recovering now, Matt.
Yeah. Oh, I see. Yep. I'm back. I'm back.
Okay. I will have to troubleshoot that over the weekend. Uh, okay. Games for the heat death of the universe. That's right. We are. Don't forget, you're here forever.
You're here forever.
Yeah. Forever.
You're stuck. you you're on the opposite side of this animated table forever.
For for Yeah. Right.
Anyway, I um I am always excited when something in in Warcraft makes me a little excited again. Then I I'm also sad when I realize that I'll never have time to actually play it. But uh hopefully other people can experience sort of the joy that I experienced way back in the day uh through all this. I might give it a shot just to sort of see again. And I do have a dream of um and maybe after F forever drops, that's probably the way to go. Um to do like an actual hardcore run.
Yeah,
I just have I have interest. Oh, and I like the um

I think they might do this now, too. I don't remember. Um or this might have been a Diablo thing. Like if your hardcore character dies, you're kicked off the hardcore server, but you can go onto a regular server.
Yeah,
which seems pretty fair.
Yeah, you don't lose it forever. You're just not in the hardcore server anymore. Yeah.
Yeah. You've been banished to another realm.
Yeah, it's great. Uh yeah, you don't you don't lose the progress. It's just not a hardcore character anymore, which I I do like.
Yeah. Um, and and path does the same thing. When you lose a hardcore character, you can they die as a hardcore character but can continue in softcore.
So, yeah, it's good.
Uh, okay.
Anyway, I think that's Blizzcon, is it not?
I uh, you know, that's a great question. I think it is. Um, chat, let us let us begin. Change of pace.
Change of pace.

Change of pace. Let's begin our our side dishes. That's some good news.
All right. Uh,
Rage Gore Midriff confirmed.
That's, you know, 100% it.
That's the first piece of good news.
So,
second piece of good news.
Second
is this thing that blew my mind.
This is amazing. All right. So, we talked a bit ago about the end of Pokemon Bank, how they were shutting down Bank. Um, you already
bank being the thing that you let you move your Pokemon from older consoles into a space to get to newer consoles.
Correct. So, you needed to move stuff to the 3DS and from the 3DS you could move it to home. And this is was a painful process that wasn't exactly great to begin with and then they shut down the 3DS eShop so you couldn't get it unless you already had it. And even if you already had it, they were shutting down Bang. Well, the Pokemon community was like, "That's stupid."

So, this device, uh, this device is something that the, uh, member of the Pokemon community, uh, let me get their name correct, uh,
Andrew Andrew Henley.
Andrew Henley, uh, who goes by Drew Works, um, has created. It is a GBA to switch Pokemon transfer cable.
Well, system as you can see.
Yeah, it's system cable thing.
Ah, it's so funny. Almost watchable. Cool. They built a lawsuit magnet. Actually, no. Because what this device does truly, it does not change at all either console or the game itself.
Correct.
All it's doing is interpreting data that the Pokemon company has made

interpretable by its other games through a hardware solution. Like it's not you're not injecting anything into anything else. It's not a ROM. It's not anything. Like it's just doing the hand shaking. So the talking can happen.
Yes, correct. It is a translator. So, uh there's a video uh in the linked article of um him transferring stuff from the fire red leaf green version on the advance to the fire red leaf green version on the Switch. That's it. That's all it needs to do, right? is because you can um you can get stuff into those places, right? And and the advanced games were the ones that lots of people really wanted to to transfer from. Uh and this does that, right? This is this is a step towards keeping all of everything uh contiguous. And I'm sure that the um the plans are going to get released uh later. Well, so they're

saying they're saying um let me see if I could find this because it was very very interesting. Uh Henley's experiences in software spann multiple industries beyond video games with the dev having worked in private sectors, government agencies, and now owning and developing hospital compliance platforms with the goal of giving smaller and rural service providers more affordable systems. So he this is a person who has done um I guess so it might be a software solution as well. I saw almost there. I don't know the actual legality of this. my guess. I mean, who knows? It this doesn't feel like something cuz nothing is actually changing anything. It's not breaking anything. It's working with existing OSS and it's, you know, who knows?
Um, at a high level, the adapter acts like a translator between two systems that were never designed to communicate with each other. The Game Boy Advance expects to talk to hardware from its own era, while the Switch uses a completely different communication system. my hardware and software sit between them and translate the communication in real time so that each side can interact normally without needing to understand how the other system works. Um, and it's it's it's um essentially

this is not something he's like currently planning on like marketing or whatever. This isn't something he's going to y
I think sell. Um, but this is I think the thing I liked about this story is it kind of reminded me that like the ingenuity of a fandom, especially kind of a nerdy one, can like can surpass a lot of roadblocks. And this is something that like, yeah, you know what? Based on users and and an amount and how much money something would cost in X, Y, and Z, it probably doesn't make sense for Nintendo to to make something like this and sell it, right? But it is really cool that someone with the technical knowhow of of of literally trying to get systems like hospital software talking to each other like took that technology was like what if I did

this for this other this fun thing.
Yeah. This is just one of those cool gaming stories that's like you know what that's pretty neat. I'm about that.
Yeah.
All right. Are
I just really liked it. Yeah, I think it Matt very rarely messages me about stories. Like I I I put the run of show together on Thursday. I take a while to like go through and scrape for all of the the interesting stuff that's happened this week. And then I send Matt like a run of show on Thursday night and then he reads it and we get together on Friday and talk about the show. Matt sent me a message last night AND WAS LIKE, "THIS IS SO COOL." AND LIKE I'M NOT I'M not the target demo for this like to be very clear, but like
this is the you know how I've been talking a lot
and I think so far other than Ram Crisis and don't get me wrong, we're going to get to some bad news, but I feel like the majority of this show overall has been kind of positive and like this is the kind of stuff I want to talk about and deep dive. I'd love to talk to this person who designed this. Like I I

this is the the spirit of gaming that I really like. Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And especially surrounding an IP that actually part of its major draw and and specialness is a sense of community.
Yeah.
And and um and continuation. And I think this is just absolutely lovely.
100%.
Yeah.
Okay. Uh, also in good news, Warg Gamer did a um did an interview with the new head of D&D, Dan Aub. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. And I I think the the the result of that is some is some good news. Um, it's been a year since he took over
and his canandoandor during the interview is really nice. Um, one of the things that

they like straight up asked him was just over a year ago you took over as the head of D and D and you gave us some bold promises, a brand new franchise model, listening to community voices and earning the trust of the community. Do you feel we've delivered on those promises so far? Dan, I'd like to think we've made great strides. bluntly, we're recovering from a lot of missteps, very loud, very public missteps, and we're not going to fix it in one year. I can talk till the cows come home. We've got to show more than tell, and this is going to take some time. I'm very conscious that it's going to take a lot of time to win back the trust that the extent that I would like. Having said that, I think we've started strongly. I think a lot of things are still happening behind the scenes. And I like that. I think that that is that is uh the most realistic that I've heard from like a Watsi executive in a hot second. I think it's a good interview. I think people who like D and D and are who concerned about its future should read it. Um,
yeah, it's over on War Gamer. It's in the show notes. Um, I I am hopeful for the future of Dungeons and Dragons as a company. The game will

always be fine.
Yeah. Because the game like is books. you can
because because at the end of the day it's collaborative storytelling and imagination with your friends like and I think that's the you know we've done a whole episode on this Dungeons and Disasters the second it gets trying to lock itself down that's when everything slips through its fingers like this game's joy and draw is so ephemeral you can't I I think that Dan in this particular case is you know saying a lot of the ways they misstepped in the OGL debacle and all that jazz like it's all going to slip through your fingers if you try to clamp it down. It's like trying to trying to uh grip a cup of water with no cup as as hard as you can. Obviously, the water is going to like you just need to hold it like and and and they're talking about different ways of like the way that D and D is sort of incorporating at least on the on the company level all the different ways that people play. So, obviously there's their video game division. They're

trying to find their footing after Balders's Gate 3. Uh I think Warlock looks promising. We'll see how it goes. They're trying uh their online initiatives with the mapping stuff and whatnot, even though I know a lot of that is sort of closed down based on their D and D beyond stuff. They're releasing um obviously they have their World of Warcraft tie-in uh that is that is coming out soon. Um and uh you know, they have a couple weirder things down the line. Uh they're also talking about working with different creators to make more official things as opposed to just like letting the people make stuff with the OGL, like actually getting community stuff in there, which I think it's interesting. I have heard from people that my favorite elements of D&D books, essentially full-blown campaign books, Strad, Frostmaidaiden, uh you know, that sort of thing, are the things that don't sell. like people want to make their own campaigns it seems. Um, which is totally fine, which is why things like keys in

the Golden B vault or Infinite Staircase, like those things that have like smaller adventures in them are cool. I but it but like if the community is coming in to like help if we're getting like actual creators who have done multi-million dollar Kickstarters who know how to design these things who are really really excellent with it to come in and sort of help on an official level I feel like there might be space and time to do like everything including long adventures again. Yeah.
Um I also think friend of the show uh Jasmine uh that bronze goar uh essentially uh being the DM on dungeon masters which is incredibly popular uh is a good move. D and D having an actual play show of their own is a really smart move. Um, they have been killing it and I think that there's no reason why that company shouldn't have a successful actual play show. They they it's their thing. They have the ultimate synergy, right? Um, it's just a matter of of finding the talent and now that they have. So, I along with this interview,

uh, the last year has definitely been a recovery year for the company that owns Dungeons and Dragons. Um, yeah, and and Sue, you're absolutely right. Campaign books have one buyer, the DM. Yep. Which is why, like, again, I don't think their business model should ever switch to that because it's not that's not that doesn't work.
Yeah. But I want if they're going to invite more people in to be part of the official system that at least gives more breath of work to be done and therefore we might be able to get more diverse styles of content. Like I don't I don't mind if there's a whole artificer book or I don't mind if there's a whole mini adventures book or I don't mind if there's a whole thing about spells. Like that's that's how D and D second advanced second edition kind of used to be like
and I liked that.
Wild.
Yeah. So I don't know. I I I like this. I like what Dan said. Um he has the right vibe of hat in hand but confident that they're that they're reacting to fan feedback in and like good fan

feedback not just like any fan feedback.
Yeah.
So
okay. Uh that is unfortunately
did we run out
we ran out of good news. So that means it's time for the opposite. All right, chat. Uh, let's dive into some not so great news. Persup. Uh the numbers are in and the attempt to do a PlayStation blackout uh to uh change opinion about the direction that PlayStation's business model is going had no mathematically discernible impact.
No. Nor did we think it would.
Correct.
Um what sucks about this is not that it didn't work. It was never going to work. Even if it did do what it was built to

do, having a boycott where the company knows the end date of the boycott, it doesn't work.
Yeah.
Um but now what what I think the truly bad news element of this um story is now PlayStation Blackout failed is the story,
right?
Does that make sense? Before the story was tons of gamers are pissed that physical media is going away. Yep.
And now the opposition has a full-blown news story that essentially says this doesn't matter. They don't really care,
right?
Uh and that that hurts the movement um a fair bit.
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, my thought was I thought we could ask all of you real quick on this. Uh, cuz there's not much to say on this. What

could work? Do you all have an idea for something that could actually garner attention and get people to participate? Because that's really the problem is you need a critical mass of people and that critical mass of people needs to be statistically significant to affect user data. Now, this doesn't this didn't impact financials because we don't have financials yet, but we do have access to like online traffic user data and like number of concurrent users and it didn't impact that. So, it's unreasonable to expect that it would impact financial data. Um, so what do you
I mean I don't
Does anyone have ideas?
There's nothing There's nothing I'll start. I'll kick it off. There's nothing that um would work in the real world. Yeah,
like Krispy makes total sense. Yeah, stop buying digital games and we can do that, but not not enough people are going to do that to break containment. Um, I think [snorts]

okay, there's the illegal version, [laughter] which this is not advocacy. This is um uh a what if to I'm not saying to do this. I'm saying like this is something that would break
occurred then.
Uh mass piracy.
Yeah.
I mean because that like
iTunes began because music was ubiquitous and free online due to illegal sources.
Yep.
Um then they turned the digital version of it into, oh, I'll pay 99 cents for a track. like that's and then it's fine, right?
Yep.
Um
I I think with dog though, you first need enough people. Any anything that can affect Sony needs people and you don't have enough.
Yeah. Well, so here's the other thing. So like if if there was a crack or something like that, there's one angle

there where somebody just lost money based on moving its entire thing digital because there's no way of sort of like policing it somehow. I don't I I think that's a that's a long shot. The other thing would be, and we know this can happen, um, as they move to an all digital thing, um, a blackout or a mistake or a cyber attack or something that hits Sony, um, [snorts] that that disrupts service so everyone who bought their expensive PS6 like can't use it for two weeks. Again, I don't know what that would look like, but like, you know, the PlayStation Network has gone down before. Um, and I don't know what their plan is of like running a like is who knows if the PS6 is always going to have to be online or not. That seems like it would be stupid, but they're making a lot of stupid choices, so like I I don't know.
Yeah.
Um, but Sony does have a bad track record to Grass's point,

uh, when it comes to hacking and cyber attacks, right? like or or you know, it's funny and I guess this kind of shows how little people used Sony's service to like buy movies, but when the 551 films that got delisted that you can no longer access that you bought that story, I thought that would have more legs than it did. Um, but people just kind of didn't.
Yeah. Yeah,
I imagine that affected a smaller handful of people because not a lot of people buy their movies on which is probably why the license got revoked and not renewed.
Yep.
Um but like I think something like that it would have to take like enough of a publisher like if Sony and Rockstar fought and then Rockstar is like well I'm not reupping this or something. Again that's not even real. I don't know. Like I don't know what the what the thing would be, but it had to be something to scale of of things that people purchased that were no longer available.
Yeah. Yep.

Anyway, we'll continue to take a look at this as the inevitable date of uh end of life for physical discs draws closer.
And my and my thing right now is, and I'm not psyched about this, but moving business to their competitors, right? If Xbox, even though I do think their disc to digital thing is just a mere sort of stepping stone, um it is the lesser of two evils, I think, than what's going on. So like if if the [snorts] PlayStation 6 does not have a disc drive, which is not going to, and the Helix and Helix uh has it has a disc drive, I'll buy Helix. If it doesn't, I'll just move completely to PC. Sucks, but that's what I'll do.
Yep. Uh, okay. The other bad news this week is

that there are two studios that appear to be done. Done. Uh, the first of those is Heart Machine. Heart Machine made Hyperllight Drifter uh and several other games. They're most known, I think, with for Hyperllight Drifter. Um, and their publisher recently pulled all of the funding for an unannounced game that uh Heart Machine was working on, leaving them with no funds and no way to continue. Uh, and they had to lay off most of the team uh already. Uh, and the studio does not know how it will survive any measurable length of time from here. uh which is really stinks.
Um
yeah, that that it's just it's not great. Like it's a studio that made some games that like really made an impact. I don't personally care for most of Heart Machine's games, but I will also say that they are phenomenal games that made a big impact in the indie space and that many people do enjoy. So

yeah.
Um the other one not sucks a lot for the developers involved is Minds Eye. Uh
I wasn't familiar with Minds Eye.
Yeah. Uh so Minds Eyee is the name of the game. Uh and um the developer is uh Build a Rocket Boy. Um Minds Eye was the game that everyone that the developers accused of being sabotaged and that clearly like they they were set up for failure and their game was amazing and everyone must love their game. I mean the only reason you wouldn't is if is if someone was sabotaging them and it was this whole thing. Um and a lot of that felt like uh managerial oversight decisions or seuite management decisions and not not from the developers on the ground and yet uh the consequences of those actions are affecting developers on the ground as most of build the rocket boy is

reporting on LinkedIn that they are now in search of work. So, it looks like that studio will also be closing in the not terribly distant future unless something radical happens. Um, so yeah, those are those are our our not terribly great news stories uh for the week. However, fortunately, that's the end of them. Uh, which means that now we get to move on to everyone's favorite fake lawyer segment where we game the law for you.
For you.
That's right. It's gaming the law. First up, I
did the Macarena there for a second.
Yeah, you you you did. I was I was a little confused by that, I will admit. Let's talk Denuvo. So,

Denuvo is uh if you're unfamiliar with what Denuvo is because you're a console player, Denuvo is a questionably effective piece of antipiriracy technology which many people in the PC space consider to be bloatware, which is installed with many games as day one protection against uh piracy or installing multiple copies. it it's it's copy protection software. It's terrible. Like not only is it terrible in that it causes games to run worse, but it's terrible that it doesn't actually do the thing that it says it does,
right?
Largely due to the work of one person, Voices 38. Nobody knows anything about them other than their name, but they make a routine habit out of cracking Denuvo games and releasing the the the cracks for those games online.

Denuvo understandably is annoyed. Hey, Stephen. Denovo is suing this hacker Voices 38. Um, and uh, it's not going the way they planned because I believe their hope was that suing this individual would cause them to stop their activities while the lawsuit was ongoing. Um, however, the quote, which you can see Matt has put up here, is great, which is, "All is fine. Everything will continue as normal from Voices 38 regarding future Denuvo cracks."
This person does not believe that they will be found. um they're already like uh running through some Discord things, some Reddit things, and like trying to get information on who this is. Normally, when someone this high-profile is being hunted like this, they've taken the steps that would make those specific uh allegorories or allegorories avenues

of uh hunting not really work. We will see how that goes cuz right now there's a lawsuit but it's to an alias which
has a lot of uh issues. um what what they but I think what they're trying to do specifically and I don't know the actual law around this but when it when there's an unknown individual that is getting like they can't serve this person but what they can do after this goes through a bunch of different filings is try to close down accounts under the pseudonyms that this person uses. Um, I I don't know how that will affect specifically this person's ability to keep cracking games.
Can't stop the signal, Mal.
Um,
yeah, I don't I don't I don't think it's going to be terribly effective.
No, but we'll see. Uh, this is obviously something that is developing. Um, and and oh, and the second thing I found interesting about the story, so sorry.

So this isn't normally something like piracy like or or something like this would be linked to p piracy like theft or copyright infringement or something different different avenues because this is not changing or distributing the game. This is just a thing about cracking something for Denuvo. I believe I'm trying to think of how it worked. Uh they they in the in the story from there's a couple different ones. The one from IGM's Games Radar and Torrent Freak. I think Torrent Freak is the one that had the most uh like in-depth in yeah circumvention not copyright infringement. Denuvo doesn't actually own copyrights to any of these games. This means that Denuvo can't sue Voices 38 for traditional copyright infringement as the game companies could. Instead, Denubo's complaint relies on the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA under the section of US copyright laws prohibited to bypass a digital lock that controls

access to copyrighted work or distribute tools and instruction that help others to do so. That is a different charge. Uh I I I don't know what the differences are in penalty or fine or whatever, but it's just an interesting sort of subset of this story. Right? This is not game companies suing Voices 38. It's the company that game companies hire to keep them safe is suing the person that is showing that they can't do that.
Right.
The whole point Oh, yeah. Christopher, this is this is this is legal zigzagging, right?
Yeah.
Uh, no, no question.
Right. So, so yeah,
GUVO doesn't own the game, so they can't sue them for stealing the game. They can just sue them for breaking the lock that lets them steal the game. Yolo Swagen 42069, the canonical um antagonist for for Rage Gore Midriff.
Yeah, that's right.
And his daughter Grim Dark. But there's that that the problem is uh Yolo

Swagen's uh 42069 and Grim Dark kind of have an on on andoff romance and so it gets complicated in the lore. We're going to do a deep We're going to do like a three-hour lore dump eventually of the Fixel Sticks lore. Um, and and all of the story beats that happen with it.
Yeah. Uh, okay. [sighs] Next up, Nintendo news. So, Nintendo is uh has officially gotten a ban in the EU ban. Is it I'm trying to remember. I I read two things this week. One of them was a ban and one of them was an inrogress potential piece of EU legislation. And now I'm questioning myself. So they they basically secured what they're calling a legal victory against the sale of the Swiss piracy devices. I think basically

it's all butt banned. Is it like truly yet done? No. But it's going that direction.
So the district court of the HEG uh said that it is unlawful to sell these in the EU is what the ruling said. So the MIG switch is a device which essentially lets you bypass copy protection on the switch. Um, and uh, lets you sideloadad uh, cracked software. It's a piracy device for the Switch. Um, and uh, Nintendo successfully got it banned in the e the sale of them banned in the EU. Now, I'm not actually sure how much good that does, but
well, you can't like buy it on a website, which actually that's I mean like on a like don't get me I know Will's making the face, but like there is a difference between buying something legal on a website and buying something illegal on a website. One is one is easier and more casual,

right? Like so
I could just buy some coffee on a website and oh what's this thing that it's fine
but but you understand but you understand how this still is a roadblock right because then you have to know that you're you have to buy the coffee like there there's just and then there's trails that lead like it's harder
yeah um yeah no 100% IO and there there are legitimate uses for it but Nintendo's case is that it's a piracy device and the common usage of it has in their opinion been to uh execute um cracking copy protection on the switch. So uh that happened and then
that did happen. Our final uh gaming the law story is the potential ongoing legislation in the EU which Tim Sweeney felt the need to not follow my course on. So

so stupid. There is a proposed law in the European Union that would block kids uh at 14 or under from freely accessing AI chatbots, online games, social media um and social media. Tim Sweeney decided to open his mouth and say that Roblox and Fortnite were important for, and I'm quoting the next generation of humanity.
Poor wording it. The quote is, "It would be terrible for the next generation of humanity. The apps and games of today are the paint brushes and tree forts of yesterday. Fortnite has creative mode. Roblox has Roblox Studios. And being a digital creator in is in everyone's reach till politicians take it away." Um, okay. [laughter]
I like I like Amy's I wish Tim.

[laughter] Um,
let's can we start by by reading this response in the most charitable way possible?
Yeah.
And then slowly move on from there.
Yeah. Um it, you know, in a vacuum if if Ragegore Midriff got on Twitter and said that there's some validity to that statement.
Yes,
like third spaces are not present. Uh they've been killed. uh Fortnite's creative mode and all this stuff is a really interesting and good access point into uh budding game development. Like I think that does serve a purpose there. Um and uh it helps people become a digital creator and and a policy made by

politicians could limit that. I
those are all true things.
I think that's true. But then it's not it's not Rage Gore Midrift saying that,
right? The source matters.
It's it's the owner and operator of Epic Games and Fortnite. So, and if you think about like those things, there's no way to divorce his opinion from what makes him gobs of money. I'm not even saying that maliciously. It's just like he could be. And this is the thing about Tim Sweeney. I think I actually think he is always thinking he's he's he's doing the right thing in these areas. He there's a lot of interesting stuff about him. I think he always even though often misplaced, his heart is in the right place, but the misstep is large.
Yeah.
Right. Like I think he believes all

this.
Yes. But it it it comes from a specific kind of bubbled existence to to real to not be able to see what this actually feels like when it's said by him and his position of power,
right?
Um the let's talk about so so like Absent Games today are the paint brushes and tree forts of yesterday. Well, why is that? I mean, there's lots of different reasons that you could talk, but like a lot of uh the reasons why I I would say third spaces and other things have sort of gone by the wayside and and there's less communication between people IRL uh you know outside of medical conditions and co like that's a whole that's a whole other side thing but that social media and online services are so ubiquitous and addictive that uh more and more people have gravitated towards those things and IRL spaces cannot survive on their own, especially after the blow that co hit with, right? Y
um Fortnite has creative mode, Roblox

has Roblox Studios. So, let's let's talk about that for a second. And the paint brushes and tree forts of yester year. So, paint brushes and paints had to be evaluated by some government agency to make sure that the paint wasn't toxic. uh tree forts if they were on playgrounds and things probably if they were in public spaces and parks had to be inspected to make sure your kid didn't fall out of them and break their bones. Um if we're want to talk about what these things are and how important they are for children, uh you know, I think Fortnite has better safety measures than Roblox does. But to say them both in the same breath as sort of a a a shield of not just saying your company's thing
Yeah. I I don't think he helps himself at all by bringing up a box here.
No. Uh it's just not like it's just not like [laughter]

these are the tree forts of of our age. By the way, we're the only two people selling tree fort kits, boards, and nails.
Right. Also [laughter] also in One of Us, we turned our tree fort into a sweat shop. But ignore that part. It's still a tree fort. Yeah, I like Artemis. Roblox and Fortnite are the lead paint of the future. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of accurate,
right? And
and and the truth is being a digital creator,
two two points. One, yes, that is a good way to sort of get kids into learning that stuff. But the ecosystems that both of those things are tied to are so predatory that you're essentially making a you're teaching a skill, but you're also teaching a a lesser evaluation of craft and value of what those people are doing by slowly but surely in shitifying the service and making sure that whatever people are making, they're getting less and less and the company is getting more and more. Like that's the other part of this. The thing about

gamedev, I think when Will and I were kids before like a lot of people had the access to do this, we always hear about like there's a 12-year-old kid hustling and making a million dollars in Roblox. Well, A, there's only like a very small handful of people doing that. B, maybe they should be 12.
Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. Maybe we shouldn't be training children to do that level of work that does like there has to be a childhood. Um and uh as much as uh we all might yearn for the minds digital or otherwise I think that there's something to be said for that. Now that's just Tim's statement. the idea that the EU is putting forward uh is not crazy but also kind of a thing that in a way already exists. So follow me here. So the thing that they're positing is like um

people 12 to 14 would have like a limited thing and then 15 up would just have access and then 12 and under would have only a children's thing or whatever. We get into how do you identify somebody? How do you do whatever? Blah blah blah blah blah. But there's already a way that people can do this. And I know it's difficult and I I won't pretend to say that's easy because I don't understand it. But like in order for um like it has to be the company and the parent, right? Like Tim is worried that if they limit this, people under 14 won't have access to the thing that they can spend money on. How does a how does someone under the age of 14 spend money on a digital service? Well, they can't have a credit card. So, they have to get that from their parents, which means there's a thing involved which makes the kid tell their parent that that's what they want.

Right? There is still a check and balance there. Is it annoying? Do we want companies training our kids like 80s morning, you know, cartoons to like keep telling their parents what they want, what they want, what they want. It's not great. Um, but there is essentially an age gate already that doesn't require this. On the flip side, I go back and forth. I I don't think that limiting access to these things is a bad thing. I just don't know how you implement it other than how we've already implemented it.
Yeah, it's it's very difficult. The um [sighs and gasps]
there's a million compend.
Yeah, the intention makes sense, right? is that there is a concern that particularly in the case of Roblox, Fortnite, that like children are losing their childhood to increased corporatization

essentially and to child digital sweat labor in the case of Roblox. Um like policing it still requires parents because otherwise even if the law even if this law goes into effect you can get around again. But it kind of goes back to the the the MIG chip thing too, right? Like these laws are not meant to like any law is not meant to stop the entirety of something that is bad for us in its tracks because it never will. It's made to limit it, to limit the harm, to limit the amount. Um I I kind of am with Darkwolf, right? My biggest problem with age verification is that the government should be providing that service, not outsourcing to third party services that keep your personal data and sells them. So frustrating that that they make the laws without safe ways to execute them.
Yeah, that's I agree. But also,
this is what sucks about all this. Governments, as we've seen, change

hands. So do companies. like there's no good like like there's no ubiquitous fair place to do this and I think that's where it kind of falls into this is sounds like such a copout but like smaller community andor parents and children individually.
Yeah.
Um and I can't begin to speak to that exactly because I don't have kids. I don't know how hard that is. I I've heard it's incredibly difficult. Um and you can't stay on top of it 24/7. I get that there should be way like companies shouldn't be preying on children that a parent constantly has to block.
Yep.
Finding ways to limit. Maybe that's sort of more of the solution that companies definitely don't want. It's less agegating and more stop implementing things like dark patterns and uh gambling adjacent things that are irresistible to a child

whose brain is not formulated yet in games in general.
Yeah.
Now that's hard. All of this is hard. But like maybe that's an actual but let's even pretend that that is an actual way to curb this. That's not what anyone wants anyway because it takes money out of people's pockets and it's just like
Yeah.
Okay. Matt, would you like to talk about a happy thing?
Sure. But it actually does tie into this cuz remember how I was talking about '8s cartoons?
Yeah.
Do we do we have we want to do the Do we want to do the the bumper for this? Okay, we'll do the bumper for this for our dessert story. Here we go. [music] TRANSFORMERS. [screaming] It's more than meets the eye. Uh, yesterday was the 40th anniversary of the Transformers the movie animated

film. Um, and AMC and Fathom Events did a limited screening of this uh, ancient masterpiece. If you have not seen this film, it's an interesting watch in a movie theater. I'd never seen it in a movie theater. Um, I went with a bunch of other very loud, excited Transformers nerds. Uh, and rew and and watched it. Um, I forgot a couple things. One, there's commercials baked into it. [laughter] Like not not commercials for things, but like it dips to black like a TV show would and then comes back. Do you know what I mean? Like it's there's it's in chunks. Till all are one, Survivor. Till all are one. Um, the the other thing here is uh Peter Cullen did just pass away uh about a month ago. Um, and there was a really really lovely

touching beginning section of about him and about his life before the screening, which I was not expecting. And the the theater erupted. Uh, this movie still holds the weight that it did. I believe the special edition 4K steelbook says on it with a picture of, spoiler alerts, Dead Optimus Prime. Um, it says, uh, still hits like a truck [laughter] because it's super sad. And the the the mythology behind this movie, if you don't know, essentially Hasbro was trying to sell like it seemed like everyone had already bought all their OG first gen Transformers figures and people weren't buying new Transformers figures. When they made this movie, one of the things they wanted to do was kill off a lot of the OG Transformers and introduce new Transformers to sell new toys. That is why Optimus Prime dies and why Rodamus Prime is there and Hot Rod

is there and and Megatron gets transformed into Galvatron. It's to sell toys. The issue is they made this movie so good that it just inflicted generational trauma on everyone's cartoon dad Optimus Prime dying and everyone rallied for basically the OG stuff even harder. Um and and so it's just an interesting exercise in like what works and what doesn't work in marketing. Uh and what it did was it made a piece of art that has actually stood the test of time. The other thing about this um is there was I want to I forget what the name of it was at the end of this after the credits. Uh let me look this up. Movie post scene. Uh oh yeah there's there's a secondary short film of 13 minutes called Optimus Prime Awakening.

A brand new thing. uh Peter Cullen's last performance as Optimus Prime and this has been incredibly divisive because it tries in a very Avengers Endgame kind of way to I'm going to give some spoilers for this if people care or don't care, but basically this this moment 40 years ago when Optimus Prime passed away and we all know that Optimus Prime's been in things since then, right? like but this short which is incredibly well animated um starts with Optimus talking to something like in the afterlife in the in robot heaven um that essentially is the embodiment of what happens when all are one and it talks about how Optimus needs to stop fighting because in every universe he fights till he dies and that's not helping anything and it flashes to the

movie we just watched, the Michael Bay movie, Beast Wars, like it flashes through everything and then it starts going into different like alternate realities and things like that and Optimus keeps being like, "No, no, I'm not. I'm not like, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever." Um, but it ends in a really weird spot where Optimus finally relents and realizes to save everyone he has to like give up. And it like the again animation is great. I I was like this is interesting. Where's it going? It kind of landed like a wet fart and it felt real weird after watching this moving piece of media, watching a kick-ass short and then be like, "So, the solution's kind of like I said spoilers before. Oops. Uh,
yeah. And I'm not going to spoil how

they do it, but actually to be honest, I think I'm doing a service for anyone who's watching this thing to kind of know that's where it's heading
because when I watched it, I I I kind of like I was vibing and then I was just like, huh? And look, I don't think obviously the internet has taken this as either it's the best thing or the worst thing in the Transformers uh you know, thing.
Yeah. But uh yeah, sorry. Oops. But again, I actually I don't think that this I I think you might get more enjoyment out of it not being slapped in the face. It's it's weird.
Uh
is it a spoiler if I tell you you're going to get slapped in the face with a fish at the end and you're like,
I mean, yes, but maybe you want the surprise. I don't want to say whatever people want. Like, it's fine. And I'm sorry if that was a minor spoiler. Anyway, my point is this movie slaps the original the the 40-year anniversary. Uh, and if you have not seen it, uh, I would love to hear your thoughts. You

can message us on Blue Sky about this. I'm interested in people who have not seen it and did not grow up with it watching it today. There was a few people in the theater that people had brought with them that hadn't I was just overhearing cuz when I go to the movies alone, I kind of just sit there and I eat my popcorn and I kind of like listen to other people's conversations [laughter] before and after the movie, especially like when you're leaving. and uh many pe a few people that hadn't seen it and went with someone who really liked it walked out really liking it. And it's not something that like has a pacing for 2026 and it's not something that like feels like a product of this time at all. So I'm curious if that's a a more common thing if people So if you haven't seen it, uh I would say go watch it and then report back if you have the time. and be curious, especially if you don't have the nostalgia for it. Yeah. And Christopher, I don't know. It feels

like a jumping off point or they're trying to start something new.
Yeah. Okay. And that
Okay,
that dear friends is going to bring us to the end of our over long games for breakfast. We thought it wasn't gonna go this long, but it did.
It did.
If you are interested, Matt and I are gonna jump into the No Man's Sky Expedition together right after this over on Twitch. So, please join us for that. I'll also be playing more of the No Man's Sky Expedition next week. Uh, we'll be checking it out. Um, so come join, hang out, do the thing, all that good stuff. Which means that the only thing that is left is for Matt to do our traditional sign off, the same one we do every time.
That is right. Right. If you're new here, uh, don't feel bad. You'll learn it once and you'll never have to relearn anything again. And obviously, if you've been here with us for Games for Breakfast in the past, you know that we do the same sign off every time to foster a sense of community and togetherness as we go off into hopefully

having the best possible weekend that we can. So, with that in mind, I would like everyone to just take a deep breath and begin uh our our classic goodbye saying thank you so much for watching Games for Breakfast and Rage Gore Mid.