Playing For The Planet’s Lisa Pak On Gaming For Good And Wielding The Power Of Play

[Music] hello world this is the pg. biz podcast and yes Brian is not here my co-host he is gearing up for a massively exciting Scottish games week I'm myself I'm back from the UA Society event in London where I was just blown away by the people I could connect with and I brought one back today and the reason I brought her back is because she shows me that games for good is not just a motto it is a mission games can have real impact and the timing is great because at one end of the spectrum we already know through a report from skillpoint that games have an impact on Mental Health but all games all games companies and all companies active in the games industry can have a positive impact on

the planet and we're going to talk about this program today it's called playing for the planet and its Champion its steis is my guest today her first podcast Lisa pack you have been active in the games industry for over a decade and now your goal is to accelerate the speed at which we all take action for the environment and also Inspire everyone to embrace purpose so first of all move to have you today I'm excited because it's your first podcast you've chosen to come to me and a pg. Biz just great to have you thank you Peggy uh yeah letting me share a little bit more about playing for the planet with our industry so playing for the planet it's by the way it's a great name but it's an alliance that you represent not yourself it's with a number of Partners it's a very powerful program with some great supporters including the UN tell us about this Alliance and what its

specific goals are uh yes so playing for the planet has been around since 2019 uh it consists uh of gaming Studios as well as trade bodies such as game here in Germany Yuki in the UK sjv in France we're facilitated by the United Nations environment program which means that we work with high standards and we have access to um relevant resources So within the alliance we FOC focus more on um collaboration rather than competition in this very highly competitive industry that we are in and we're trying to bring people together so that they can do good work that benefits the planet and the goals of the alliance or something that we ask each of our members to do is first of all to reduce their carbon emissions and set Net Zero targets second is to implement green activations in games because we believe that the super power of the games

industry is its reach so by using the games and talking about environmental topics in games we think we can inspire a lot of people to do good for the planet and then lastly we ask our members to work on special projects which can be anything really that they think is relevant and interesting to work on some of the projects that are going on right now are uh a Plastics protocol project where mostly um console gaming Studios work together and look at how they can reduce the amount of plastics that is uh that is used in games but then for example we also have a decarbonization working group where several of our members are working together uh and thinking about yeah how can we uh deal better with carbon Accounting in the industry because it's such a complex topic um so as a concrete result of that next week we're actually launching um a re report that is uh

titled untangling the carbon complexities um uh of the video gaming industry which I think is such a great document for the entire industry to better understand uh um how to yeah look at this topic but then uh there are also um there's another initiative mostly focusing uh on Xbox which is the Xbox sustainability toolkit for example where uh Xbox have provided tools for all all uh developers that make games for Xbox that so that they can have benchmarks and have uh tips and tricks on how to uh develop their games to be better for the environment and essentially use less energy and all of this is part of the alliance so it really does span the entire industry it's beyond games developers they're a big part of it but it's really all the companies in the ecosystem yeah correct we're trying so our members right now are gaming studio and the trade bodies as I mentioned

earlier but we're looking into ways as well uh for for other organizations that are active in the industry to see how they can join and and support uh uh this movement really and I think important there it's always like we're looking at groups of organizations that can work together on doing something and yeah and untangle some of the complexities that uh that come with this agenda it's moving to see literally that there is a movement and everyone can get involved in the various projects they can practically pick a project I'd like to understand a little bit about your backstory because you probably also had um a project that you started out with what was it uh yes that's correct so for me this entire Journey started while I was working at wuga um at some point the company was looking into calculating its carbon footprint and um I volunteered doing this this and as I started uh

diving into this work knowing very little uh I I soon came to realize that calculating a carbon footprint uh for an organization is extremely complex so I spoke to a lot of different people trying to understand and figuring out what is the right way to go about it um and as I went on that journey I met so many other individuals within our industry that were doing many uh different things yeah this kind of like got me to realize that there's so much more that we can do as an organization uh besides calculating reducing and offsetting our carbon emissions uh that I found the green game Jam for example uh and and roll um June's Journey uh to participate in that I think it was 200 um 21 for the first time uh and from there I started to get many more ideas of what we could do within the company

itself and that kind of like yeah how it expanded yeah into a small side project into something much bigger that I essentially wanted to turn my uh job into with with a full focus on sustainability and the environment but unfortunately that didn't work out for me at wuga but that did bring me to play for the planet well glad you arrived everything has a good ending every every path is worth while and your path has brought you to this project and also brought us together because I'm sitting there expecting to hear about you know UA and you come on and you start and you talk about this and I recall that the people I spoke with afterwards at the UA Society they were like where's Lisa we need to chat this is very exciting for me so how did how did that go so it was overwhelmingly positive I would say I did not expect uh these re reactions at

all uh to be honest uh there was lots of people uh telling me how inspired they were after my conversation the person who spoke after me uh from ABS flyer even mentioned that this is probably the most important Talk of the day which I thought was so kind uh of of him to say um and I think uh some people um were eager to learn more to brainstorm a bit about what it is that they can do with in their companies uh and yeah some are like oh how the green game Jam this sounds great how do we get on board how can we join that so different type of conversations uh uh uh but overall very positive and people seem to be full of ideas of things that they could do at their uh Studios and exactly where I wanted to take it next Green game Jam again great title great concept tell me about it because you started out by joining one is it is it around the

corner uh what is it and how can people get involved yes so the green game gem is not a game Jam as uh most of us probably think it would be so we are not uh developing games from scratch but what we are doing is looking at existing games with an existing audience so that we can actually reach as many people as possible and we then ask um game teams to develop an green activ as we call it which is uh focusing around an environmental theme that changes every year for the green game jam and we then ask them to come up with I don't know a new feature a new world a marketing campaign a Tim limited event or anything that they can come up with around this environmental theme and Implement that into the game and the goal of that really is to um to inspire as many people as possible uh to take actions that benefit the planet really and it's

a yearly uh event which is starting again in 2024 we hope to announce our uh theme and goal for next year um before the end of November so if anyone is interested drop us a note via the website so we can make sure to send you all the information yeah we're not really uh 100% sure on the theme just yet but uh it's going to be something around um bringing gaming communities together uh out of the games into nature trying to take small actions that lead together to a very big impact so really uh looking to empower players around the world to do something that is uh close to home something that they can easily do and that is all in support of the environment that's what we're we're looking at and any studio uh out there

can join whether that is um mobile PC or console and our ask really is to um to have a game out there that already has an existing audience because of that point that we're trying to reach as many people as possible you went to one yourself that's how it all started what are some examples of what a green activation looks like I mean what can that be I mean it has to be more than lifp service lease it has to be more than like oh I've got a game and I put some trees in it and then we're going to have an event where we you know plant one or something this these should be meaningful yes I think maybe uh a great example which I followed very closely was this year in uh love and PI from trail mix games so this year for the green game Jam our theme was wildlife and our goal was to uh Safeguard several species in different regions around the world and within love and pies um

there's a great uh story uh um with the characters that talk about everything and there is the the merge uh component of the game so what this game did is they focused on saving harle and toads in um in the Amazon they had a a special uh toad in the game that you could merge and uh collect uh items for the game and and rewards but they also had a very nice uh thing in in the uh in the story of the game where the main characters of the game talked about uh the Amazon the harle and Toad the environment why it's important to uh focus on this why it's important to um uh to to trail mix yeah I think this was just really amazing it had that component of uh talking to players about about the why uh and about the the the focus of the green activations and it had that that

component of doing something in the game uh merging these harleen toads and also working together with the entire game Community to reach a certain goal so to me that was a very um special activation I think because it tried to bring people together around this uh yeah around this agenda trying to achieve something in the game together and also trying to teach people something about this species and uh this this area in the world that needs some of our attention it isn't the one I would have expected but it also shows a tremendous amount of sort of inspiration Innovation just trying something very different where can game developers games companies sort of get ideas for this is there a group within the group where maybe they're like hey I'm really into this I really want to do this leas but I haven't got a

clue generally what I see is once we announce the theme for the green game Jam game teams have so many ideas already of what they uh of what they can and cannot do and are our thinking is also really Studios will um know their games best they know what's feasible they know their audience best so they come up with the the best ideas really to implement this ADV enironmental theme into the game so I think I've never really come across Studios having issues figuring out what it is that they uh they can do it's more a question of time and resources what's what's feasible within the time frame of the green game Jam but if we're thinking of uh of I I would say a community within our industry that is looking to brainstorm about ideas of what they can do in their games um we have a slack group at the green game Jam that all the participants

from past years where they are in I think uh that's a good place to start but if you haven't joined a green game Jem just yet uh I would also refer to our website where we have listed um a short description and some images of each of the activations from the past years uh which could be used as an um uh as as an inspiration uh but then also if you know of a um game that has joined the green game Jam don't be afraid to reach out to those teams and ask them about their experience their ideas and how they came about it how was it for the teams to work on this because to yeah in my experience everyone is very open to share information and to really like help each other out when it comes to this topic another point I think would be um not related to playing for the planet but there is the igda uh climate

special interest group which is also a group within our industry that consists of gaming experts uh environmental experts and and generally people who are interested um in this topic which is an amazing group as well uh where you they have a Discord group uh or Discord Channel um where anybody is uh uh um welcome to join and it's a great place to brainstorm as well and get advice and and feedback on ideas from other people one point I also want to get to that I thought was very novel because one is like building it into the game and the other is having discussion within the company you know what can we do but well companies across the ecosystem so Studios can also provide some space for ads sort of like if I think about old media it's like the public service announcement you know know spread the word have an ad related

to sustainability somewhere in the the game or something what what does that look like how can H how does that work and how can also game studios get involved there yeah so that was mainly an idea I've always had from my time uh dealing with app monetization at wuga um I think players or at least from my time at wuga players were always complaining about seeing the same ads about content that they didn't like me as a player uh am sometimes annoyed by this as well having to watch the same ad over and over again so my idea there would be is there a way for Studios to uh give up some of their ad traffic uh to support environmental caes within unep there's hundreds of projects going on in different parts of the world uh where they're trying to uh spread a message uh amongst a large group of people and again our superpower in this industry really is the reach so how can

we bring some of those campaigns together with uh uh with the games industry and see if we can support these uh unb campaigns to um yeah to reach Their audience uh in in a different way that they are also uh uh new to uh so that's kind of an idea that I had um so far I haven't found anyone who is super Keen uh on on trying even though I will have some conversations with people who attended the UA Society Summit to explore this so yeah I would love to see where we could um find a way to make this possible uh so a studio that has some traffic that they are able to uh donate so to say to a good environmental cause and then figuring out a technical partner to make that work and then we uh from our side can provide a video content and and click through URLs um to

make that work and it would be interesting to see how that could boost the reach of certain campaigns that unep is working on as well as to see uh from uh the game perspective how players are reacting to this type of content and if it's something uh that that that actually is if it's something that they actually welcome if you think about it also it sort of is a is a bit of a win in the other direction because ad fatigue I know for myself it's just like I watch the same ads I'm thinking you have my attention um mix it up a little bit and this is like mixing it up with a good reason yeah there this is as you said it's a superpower games have reach why not include an ad about the organization or what you're doing or how people can get involved and speaking of how they can get involved another point that I thought was very interesting is that it's about helping the planet it's

playing for the planet but there's also an element of personal satisfaction maybe even for you as well because when you started your journey it was like I'm doing something it makes me feel good yes I think for me this all started uh with with personal challenges which made me to think about how can I add more purpose into my life uh and a big part of that is also work um so I think I was quite lucky uh at wuga that this opportunity came up I was able to do all these things and what I learned from that is that it really turned me into a much happier person uh and I think this resulted into me being better at at my regular job but also at this side project and it just gave me so much energy to do more to learn more um but also to meet a lot of uh other new

people that are already active on this agenda within the games industry so I met a whole new community of people which for me is such a great source of coming up with even more ideas of of what we can do and I think yeah because the funny thing is uh uh my colleague Sam he always asks what more can you do uh and I think starting on this work really gives you the energy to think about what more is there to do and I think that kind of that effect just trickles on and uh in everything else that you do in life and it just uh yeah made me an overall happier person I would say good to have you here Lisa and it's contagious it really is but it's also work you know it's time it's effort um for the game devs as well as for yourself what are some thoughts you how do you keep the energy the commitment the momentum High yes it is indeed work

I do think though that uh uh it doesn't have to take up a lot of hours of your of your work week in order to start uh uh exploring what more there is you can do uh to to support the environment to add to that it's also always good to uh go around the company and see who else is there that is interested in in this agenda and trying to do more good for the environment at work because you'll probably be surprised that there are always other people and amongst this group of colleagues I'm 100% sure that you all have tons of ideas already around what it is that you can do within your organization and I think it's okay to start small this is a journey everybody will start at a different place um yeah when they embark on this journey so to say so that's also okay start where you

feel like uh you can start see what is possible within your organization within your team and take it from there um and I think also reach out to to some individuals in in the industry everybody is always so open and welcoming and and willing to share and help each other out because this is an agenda that we have to tackle together um It's Complicated nobody can do this alone uh and yeah by working together um yeah we really can make a difference and that is it it is really every single small step matters it's all going on that path and uh you know look at yourself I mean you've gone from from from UA and games expert to someone with purpose and and you're even farming which I think is so cool Lisa are you still you still doing that cuz yes so that's a project that I started

with a couple of friends at the beginning of this year actually yesterday morning my friend and I went to the field and took the last vegetables that were still growing there were some carrots there were spinach uh my project on growing pack Choy unfortunately failed um but the season is over uh there's not enough light anymore uh to grow any um anything new and it gets dark soon and we're all working during the day so it's kind of over for us but having said that um this organization that we uh ran the uh land through um uh provides every season the opportunity to uh rerent that so we actually rented two Fields now uh and have another friend join us next year so that's kicking off again next year but that's been such an amazing amazing um experiment and I was actually

inspired by the green game Jam in 2022 where food was one of the topics my relationship to food has changed a lot uh I'm eating so many more vegetables I have discovered new vegetables that I have never eaten before like a Col rabi I've never even had never even heard of it before uh this year um so that's been really nice and food wastes been a topic um that that you look into because all the time and effort and energy and love really that you put into growing these vegetables they kind of become your babies and then you harvest it bring it home clean it and eat it you you don't want to throw any of that away so you make sure you eat every single thing that you have grown and yeah that's been really such a great journey for me and my friends to do and next year uh early uh spring it will kick off again so if there's anyone in Berlin who wants to

help out because it is a ton of work next year feel free to reach out because we can always use an extra pair of hands to get rid of weeds and uh water are the plants also Peggy if you find yourself in Berlin next year I would uh would love it if you join me one day you are on I'm in Berlin very often there are so many games events there you know we've got uh yeah APS and uh others hit games so yeah yeah you're on you're on and I love the way you describe that because I'm thinking the whole time yeah it keeps you grounded and keeping you grounded is what this is all about when you have when you have firstand experience that brings you closer to the Earth and you appreciate things and you see things differently it's so easy to sort of just stay in that world of yeah being so distant which is why again you know bringing people perhaps out next year in 2024 getting them outside gives also people an appreciation for this

work and the importance of your work but before we let you go Lisa we always have to do it I have a feeling I might even know your favorite game but we'll see we always ask our guests what's your favorite game you're currently playing what's your favorite game of all time yeah probably your guess is right uh love and pies I have been playing this game I can't I don't even know how long uh I'm always end of content I love the characters uh the story everything really it's such a cute game so that's my favorite uh game right now favorite game all time o i I have no idea actually I don't think I have an alltime favorite because I'm a person that moves from one game to the other I'm actually surprised with how long I've been playing love and pies already maybe it just wins on both counts yeah maybe it does maybe it does maybe it does and and that's that's a great message to our friends over at trail mix we've had

Philipa on the show and it's just a testament to the whole idea that a great story a great story is powerful and speaking of powerful it's just been a powerful conversation with you Lisa empowering um enlightening and and human so I want to thank you so much for coming here to share today thank you so much for having me it was really fun for my first uh podcast I really enjoy talking to you and hopefully uh I see you soon in Berlin this show is all about how to do your job better how to make an amazing game how to Market it and you have a say so if you have a story or know someone we need to shine a light on then we would love to hear from you we want to hear from you we want to reflect the reality of the mobile games market and all its wonderful complexity and strangeness so if you have any suggestions for us if you have any feedback for us you can always get in touch you can email us at podcast

pocketgamer.biz you can find us on Twitter @ PG Biz and you can reach out to us through the pocketgamer.biz website if you're interested in listening to all of our podcasts you can find them at pocketgamer.biz SLP podcast and we would love to hear your thoughts on future shows and we've got you covered on all the major platforms so subscribe to the audio podcast as Brian said look for us on YouTube if you want to read it hey you can do that too because we have a companion post for you as well on the pocketgamer.biz website tune in again for the next edition of the pocketgamer.biz podcast and we look forward to speaking to you in the near future until then I'm Brian Bago I'm Peggy an saltz and that's a wrap until next [Music] week