Panel: Why Creating Seamless Ads in Game Is Essential to User Retention

[Music] we are going to kick off with this amazing panel you already can see in fact i'm going to run away and let cat take over and shut up and let you carry on so cat over to you thank you oscar uh and 20 something years dealing with ads uh well 24 years in games do you want to sit down but i was doing well i'm they got me on a panel later oh okay so yeah so i i was doing quite a long 2014 was for ads though all right okay well technically if you want to go back to the banner ads no banner what's a banner um hi thanks everyone for coming this is a

this is a much this is a plump room thank you um i'm going to let everybody introduce themselves i'll quickly introduce myself my name is kat peterson i'm a co-founder of a small talent agency firm in toronto that i co-founded with a business partner almost 10 years ago we work with a very small group of talent but mainly pewdiepie who we've been working with for the last six or so years he keeps us very busy um i'm going to jump right in i'm going to let people introduce themselves but the reason you're here is to talk about ads as oscar alluded to specifically why creating seamless ads in game is essential to user retention this panel is going to convince us why no big deal no big deal all right hi everyone my name is nav gupta from charming worlds inc we are a metaverse company we are creating the wordpress of metaverse creation using our tech throw it on any website click a button and a

full metabrush galaxy appears with you know four wall garden all the way up to a fully decentralized blockchain experience and everything in between uh we're right now selling them for about a thousand dollars a month we're looking for business owners and uh hoping to grow uh and that's a bit about me and i'll pass it on well thank you nav you're my favorite new friend amongst the other people on stage um my name it my name is you gotta act like you care man my name is matt sharp i'm the creative director in advertising at zynga uh it's my responsibility to make sure our ads don't totally suck um spoiler alert i know a lot of you in this room probably love ads love getting them love receiving them interacting with them maybe it is my job to make sure you don't hate it and that you actually get a little bit of value out of it from a creative standpoint over to you new friend not your favorite though right right now you're number three okay that's fair

so i'm flavio i'm the monetization and marketing director at gameloft toronto i've been with the company for just over eight years now i've been doing free to play pc at mobile for just over 13 years and my responsibility at the company now is to make sure we're getting the installs our games need and that we're monetizing uh through in-app purchases and ads in a way that's healthy and sustainable so we can keep our games running for a long time disney magic kingdoms being our most successful title coming out of gameloft toronto and has been live for over six years now so hopefully we keep that going for many many more awesome um and my name is saloni i'm here from applovin um so my role is i'm manager of ad monetization at applovin so i lead our ad monetization strategy and operations for our partner studios primarily in the casual gaming vertical um and a lot of that really has to do with looking at retention so i'm super excited to talk a little bit more about that today

great nice to meet everyone thank you um i'll preface this with i have been working in advertising namely selling advertising for at least 15 years so i'll start with that but i don't really like ads as a user so why are they so essential to retention all right great question great question hold on cat say what you actually said an email you said it very politely there you don't like that what did you say in the email i personally hate ads hate okay hey okay this is just so we're all being honest you understand we're all being candid with one another so i'll just say um i come from the game development background uh and so you know i worked at unity live help as well me and oscar found out oh man we worked at unity it was great uh so ads uh are an important part because they help developers you know develop and make some money uh what

we're trying to do with ads is um uh use it in new ways inside of the metaverse for example you know using uh where you're looking and then kind of using uh things like uh banners but in a different way like what you would see in the physical world um why is it essential to user retention well i mean it gives us an opportunity to grow our brands and to um you know allow people to expand out uh at the same time only when the you know in my opinion only when it's done correctly if you do it the wrong way games suck all right they just will suck and it becomes more of a money play because you can definitely tell when a developer is trying to literally just like bombard you with 10 000 ads because they want to make you know some money versus this is actually a part of the experience and you know you're looking at pull versus push ads you know back in the olden days we used to do push ads uh i would be with oscar and we'd be at different events just talk about all the push ads and now we're looking at pull ads you know like a person actually

wants to see an ad and you're doing like um rewarded videos and so on uh in the metaverse space i i'm hoping to see that more of a natural type of experience when you guys go see a billboard today it was because you wanted to look that direction and the nice thing that we're trying to do at charming worlds inc is also pay the user for that so if you turn your head in a certain direction and you're coming in with let's say metamask and crypto well now you'd also get paid a portion of those ad revenues just for looking and so it's going to be interesting how that all works but uh this is that's my opinion on it um so i like what you said about let let's just presume ads are baked in let's not have a big discussion should there be a look you need ads for revenue studios do okay big small whatever ultimately adds come into the equation as you said the problem is so many of them are terrible yeah and i draw the i draw the analogy of speed dating a lot and imagine if you sat down at a table and someone just sits down for you and it's just like my name's jimmy if you're like running

and hiking at books you'll love jimmy do you want kids and it's just like everything's yanked up the volumes turned up on everything they're like we need to be loud we need to be aggressive we need to be impactful this and this no no you need to have a conversation that resonates and you know i'm not saying you sit down and you say hi my name's mark you seem really nice it's good to me i'm not gonna say you're gonna fall in love okay let's be real but the odds go way up so i think to start with i agree actually with cat i agree with you 100 most ads are terrible but it's on us as creators on us as people deploying it to make sure that they're better and that they're not jimmy um i don't know if i can add much more to like the base of what you said before as well which is obviously um we need revenue to be able to keep that content and new features coming and that's obviously impacting retention we need to keep churning out that content

to bring players back but you answered the i guess the question more directly as well rewarded videos obviously is something that really adds value to the game experience as well and and we see that very concretely when and we've tried to reduce as much as possible over time but sometimes there are technical issues and our ads just aren't working and you see on social media and on our customer care channels people are complaining where are my ads i want to see those ads so we we do know that there is demand for that yeah and then just to kind of combine some of the things that you all said i think a really good way to look at ads and retention is kind of to look at what defines a retained user right they're probably pretty engaged in the game they probably progress through a lot of levels so from there you can kind of back that out into an ad strategy right like how can we get users to progress through more levels and one example is something like rewarded video right maybe we introduce boosters in exchange for people watching an ad that might

help them progress through more levels that might help them feel more engaged and retained in the game so i think kind of like all you all said a well-executed ad strategy can actually be pretty invaluable to something like retention and on that note what do you think a reasonable set of kpis are how do we measure like how do we if you're in the space you're working in the space you've spent your dollars you want to see something what is reasonable today yeah um i think the kpis can vary a lot based on kind of the type of game but there's kind of like two main strategies that i recommend using um so the first one is really always optimizing for like your user experience so with things like banner ads really make sure that they don't overlap with any in-game elements with interstitial ads you want to make sure they're not too intrusive as you guys said with rewarded ads you want users to actually be able to find them sometimes like a big problem is users don't know where the rewarded ad is in your game

um and then the second thing is just really ensuring that your ad strategy complements your in-app purchase strategy so for example you might want to tune your rewards so that way they're not like too generous that they disincentivize purchases um things like that so the specific kpis will vary but i think those two kind of frameworks are really important when you're thinking about an ad strategy from our standpoint working with brands they define the kpis they step forward and they say okay this is a cpg we're looking for awareness product you know affinity we're looking for things like that this is entertainment we're looking for awareness this is um some people are looking for engagement they want to see sky-high engagement numbers and so i think having that conversation at the onset and this may sound basic to some people in the room but honestly like a lot of things when you actually like remember to do these things you're like do i actually do that every time you start and you say what is the point what's going to make this a win for us like high level are we going to get people engaged are they going to be talking about us to what degree should

they be talking about us how's that going to look um and establishing those kpis as many as you mentioned is is just it's essential it's mandatory what are the kpis that you've found so far that really can't work together you know a brand comes to you and they say we want this that and the other and you say great you can have two of three that's a great question because i'm dealing with that right now with some things no no everyone has story um it's honestly when people want niche targeting and they want high engagement they're like we want to come right out of the game we want to target people this age this this this gender you know all kinds of things but then we want the the unit itself to have a sky high engagement rate north of 60 70 it's like well okay you can't isolate 90 of the population off to the side and then expect them to still engage with it so that's definitely kind of a key fork in the road that we approach i don't know if you find it any different

i mean for us it's more about on the you know as the people developing the game and trying to monetize it both through ips and ads you mentioned kind of tuning the rewards is super important as well we can't just say okay we're going to show you know infinity ads and they're all going to be super high value we can't do that either right so we have to kind of balance the amount of engaged users that are watching x amount of videos per day and we've had to do that we've had to go back and dilute some of the rewards so that we can increase the overall amount of value that we're giving to the players so it's a constant game of balancing things okay now if i'm going to get to you in a second i'm not ignoring you i promise um take this mic man just take it i got my coffee um but but so on that what are the what are the sectors that you guys find most difficult to accommodate with ads like where are the areas that are where is it difficult where is it hard to get that ad and what is hard

you don't have to talk about who i'm just like there are sectors that are more difficult i mean like i can tell you like integrating a mattress company into a gaming video not the easiest thing but um what what sectors are difficult and then on the flip side which ones marry in really well and you see results that are awesome that maybe people wouldn't expect he he wants to talk he wants other people to talk i can't be like no no not okay honestly honestly cute cuddly ip licensing works really really well we do a campaign with trolls people love it trolls are cute they're cuddly it's awesome to your point mattress that's harder people see a mattress and look if you're casper or if you're someone else you want to work with us there's a conversation to be had we'll make it work but um it's different and it is more challenging and i think part of it is um look at what people engage with day to day look at what people if you didn't

put it in front of them would still reach out for people want to go see minions and shout out to gameloft even though i'm at zynga you guys you know minion rush is pretty cool um that's all that's all you're going to get out of me um but but honestly it really is cute cuddly affectionate i mean personalities sell really well flow from progressive sells a lot better than a product box they do people like smiling faces they like seeing people because it's genuine it's a connection it's personable uh whereas if you have an inanimate object stick these on screen and say bye maybe you like the design but it's trickier cats work really well also speaking of cute and cuddly literally just cats right okay fine so we'll get animals we'll get animals okay so okay good you have a microphone i'm having money yeah i got it directionally where are we going no no no no no no no no no no no

no no no this one's for you yeah i know um so basically uh it's a new frontier in the metaverse i mean uh you've got so many different areas coming in now and it's it's unique it's exciting you've got ar you've got vr you've got xr you've got um you know web 3 and blockchain and and all these different areas that are now going to come in and you're going to want to look at how do you advertise in all of these for example in the blockchain world nobody wants to share anything you don't know whether they're male female what's going on other than the fact of course you're going to know the data because in the blockchain everything is public but um you know besides that the whole point is trying to gain privacy as much as possible but it is a public chain so i mean you've got the proponents are just like i don't want to share any information and if i'm going to i should now have the right information this is kind of what we're toying with here is like do the users now get money for this as well through the ad companies and then

from a 3d perspective i mean now visually where you physically look we can actually detect that you know your head motion or the camera motion and like how long it sits on an ad and so on but that's in vr in 3d but what about when we get to augmented reality now and you know some of you are wearing glasses here i imagine a day we're going to all have glasses that are light and in fact we wouldn't be physically here we would be here virtually as holograms like when we get to those levels using artificial intelligence being able to track how a person physically moves in these environments now can we use advertising in a different way it's scary that they'll be able to kind of you know know what's going on but we will have now new kpis and new types of information that's coming out what is important though is to make sure that in my opinion that we start putting ads that make sense for each individual now getting really down to custom ads like for example what uh what types of

categories or topics that i might like saloni might not like and vice versa but if we both look at the same direction at the same poster board or whatnot we should both see a different ad and that's the whole entire you know idea that i'm thinking about is as we get into these futuristic technologies we start doing things like that where now the advertisers and the publishers they get more high quality retention uh and doing traditional models so what you guys see right now you know you drive by and you see the billboards versus boom push in your face and everyone hears an ad uh but yeah that's that's where in my opinion it's going um but yeah it's it's gonna be interesting to see what happens in the coming years in the metaverse yeah it's gonna be very interesting saloni are you gonna make it so that that's not clunky like can you seamlessly do this for us today i mean i think a really big part of like some of what you're talking about is just having really strong machine learning that helps you target those sorts of ads right and that's the kind of tech that you know of course app 11

has a lot of you know different publishers and dsps etc have that sort of tech and i think that is very vital to the kind of like future you're describing um but in terms of just like where ads are headed kind of like in games as they exist right now i think a lot of publishers are getting a lot more comfortable with hybrid monetization so like in-app purchases and ads and i think we're going to just see that continue we're going to see a lot of apps kind of get pushed to market that have ads from the get-go where in the past they might have integrated them later so i think that's kind of where we're headed um kind of within the mobile gaming industry i don't know if you have something to add to um i could see a little bit more about i think something that could be done a lot more even right now without the metaverse but obviously taking to a whole new level with the metaverse is with brand integrations i don't i just don't see it enough we see some sports titles you know have billboards we've dipped our toes a little bit into that too we have an asphalt asphalt which is a brand out of one of our sister studios and more recently they've done uh an

integration where you can race uh lego technical in you know in those races so um i think it's you know part tracking obviously is is an impediment to doing that right now but i think it's up to us as content creators to really push that more and show the value that that has for for our brand to really get those players engaged with the content and not just even though i love rewarded videos it's something that you know they can just press play and put their phone down and they're not even watching it anymore they're just waiting for it to end so yeah really creating like more interaction between the user and the brand i think from a creative standpoint too and i creative director this is what i speak you have to be better you can't do what you did two years ago you're gonna lose like you'll lose people expectations for what you deliver them from an ad standpoint are so much higher and there's two stakeholders involved in any campaign typically that we run we have the brand or whoever is publishing the ad and we have our users both stakeholders need to be happy at

the end of it and to go back to that speed dating analogy earlier before you could show up and look kind of like me and you know you're not super well put together or whatever you need to have your together you can't come out of the gate with a bad ad placement you can't come out of the gate with bad creative or tone deaf creative you can't do that anymore is there any tolerance for that you hate ads right i would say no i would say no i would say i mean look no no but i sit through them that's the thing so there is a tolerance for about that's right so that i guess that's what i'm asking is is there a tolerance is there a place where less less than can exist i think it's going like this i think it's shrinking i think it's shrinking shrinking i think what you would have sat through two years ago 24 months ago is a lot different than what you sit through now and as a byproduct and the thing is i saw you know it's often said as an app developer that people are always two seconds away from going to the app store and getting another game or force closing you

you you can't do that you can't afford to mess around the creative has to be on point and outstanding and yes maybe there is some built-in tolerance frankly i think it's also generationally i think it varies depending on the demo you're talking to it has spikes and valleys but you have to have your together you can't mess around anymore just turn the volume up and expect results poor jimmy poor jimmy j you know what five percent into people who were jimmy was the guy speed dating he was like hi how are you i'm jimmy at like five percent of that audience is always going to be there it's like in politics you can say and do whatever you want you're going to have 10 20 of your base they'll just be there they'll be there but nobody wants to win with 10 20 in ads we need way higher and our expectations need to be way higher otherwise people won't work with us so on that note who is doing something interesting really well i mean i'm other than matt obviously and jimmy but like who is who

you know to remove yourself from your current role and and who's doing something that's like you know you turn on your computer you turn on your phone what have you seen lately that's piqued your interest tick-tock really yeah so um here's the thing everything that's happening i know i know but the point is it's the worst it's it's a new way of doing things that we aren't expecting and we're not used to you know what i mean um and like for example and many of us i mean especially as we have now um grown and the younger generation has come into brand new technologies uh coming back to that whole entire thing like you're saying is you need to now change as the market shifts we went to watch minions just last week and we thought that oh everyone was actually really having fun and just being rowdy for no reason it's actually a trick a tick-tock trend that you know young teens in suits go in and they're gonna clap loud and be kind of rowdy

inside of the movie and you know they record it all in tik tok um and it's like this is the sort of stuff that's happening is when you're going into these new environments uh and you don't know the other players or the other things that are going on i'd say that's interesting because that's where now the brands want to also go to and start seeing some of these things which are outside of just i guess traditional model ads that you're used to and now shifting shift as the market is shifting and if you don't see what's going on try and you know find out from others just talk and i mean that's why you come to events like this is to kind of learn about what's going on what's the new stuff so that you're not like two years behind yeah right tim please jump in yeah just just piggybacking off that like you know with things like tick tock um and this has been a thing for like a minute but um just content creators and the pull that they have in terms of advertising so i don't have that much experience with it because i'm on the monetization side but you too might have something to add around that um

selfishly one thing zing does really well are playable ads and not the kind where the pre-recorded video where you press a button and then it just plays back automatically on you but actually fully engaging ads we see crazy engagement rates we see we have a lot of success with that in terms of not being selfish and promoting zynga's ad division which i feel we weird saying um i actually think nav to your point the stuff i've been seeing with in-game ads it used to be so when i used to play madden and games like that there you go ea take it but when i used to play that as a kid they were really bad they were kind of like slapped on now holy it's just like it's immersive it's embedded it's intertwined it's everything you talk about seamless it's what you have to do and they're getting better with it to your point about seeing something depending on your preference they're getting real good but who like what have you seen like i don't mean to put i don't mean anyone on the spot but what have you seen in the last week two weeks you talked about minions that's a great example what have

you seen like what has popped up that you're like okay i'm not gonna forget that that was done well i should write that down we should call that person we should steal that creative person like what what have you seen fortnite kills fortnite fortnite and their brand partnerships i think that's more licensing than ads though they're they're good they make it really native yeah i was i was thinking maybe if you wanted something more recent but i was going to say the same thing like there there's stuff that they've done with nike and marvel and obviously with end game concerts and all that kind of stuff they're definitely next level and that's that's what we want to see as well and uh since you were being a little bit selfish earlier as well we do have our own division game off for brands which i kind of wanted to plug too but yeah we do exactly like like what i was mentioning before is um making these really engaging ad units where you're actually playing a mini game and they've done some really cool stuff for uh for lego for kellogg's for for cibc if you're canadian and then for for fanta they've won some awards

for some really cool stuff that they did where uh you're actually screaming into your phone to make the character jump up and down so that's the way you're controlling it obviously that went pretty viral so that's the kind of stuff you got to think outside the box and uh really like create that engagement between the the user just like you would in a regular game so there's lots you can learn from each other um i'd also like to say i guess also on the flip side uh as much as you're trying to be creative also be careful when you're trying to you know kind of go out there a little too much and i just i mean this came up again in my feed about i think it was the pepsi bottle cap idea you know that they had a bottle cap it nearly cost them 32 billion in the philippines who here's heard that story nobody no so they basically had a print error they were doing um a big promotion and what ended up happening was they said that whoever gets this set of three numbers and it became this big thing uh that you would win a massive amount only two bottle caps were supposed to be printed and i think 800 000 of them got

printed and you heard screams at every single you know area to the point where you know the people started getting death threats and all that i think it took 13 years or something for them to kind of like fizzle out so as much as you're getting really really creative think about what's gonna happen as well you know like that's just the other side you know think about what you're trying to accomplish with your ads and and make sure you do it right so three cheers for pepsi's legal team um we have about 10 minutes left i'm gonna open it up to questions because i think there are lots of people with exciting ideas but i get to ask the first one sorry um now if you keep talking about how we're gonna get paid how much am i gonna get paid seriously what does that mean i hear it all the time i hear people right now put your money where your mouth is pay her but like what what does that really mean like what like when when you think about that and you think about the average user the average

um the average player we'll call it what does that mean how much am i going to get paid so i mean right now when you think about the types of marketing that there are like facebook ads and or meta ads yeah um you know right now i'll give you an example i mean i spent 20 000 u.s uh in one month um and that's from the advertiser side right uh and you know at the end of the day the user's not getting anything and this is what we want to kind of do in the future what we're trying to bring is it's your data your life your movements you should be getting paid for that and that's the whole idea um even if it's like a a couple pennies here and there i mean usually when you're doing ecpms and stuff like that um you've got like maybe it's a dollar to three dollars that comes into the actual app owner well why not pay back you know another 25 cents or 50 cents to the actual end user because it's their data and the trouble is i think you know society is now starting to shift and saying hey you know what wait a second

you big brands are making all this money or you you publishers are making all this money off of me but i'm the product pay me something right and and that's the idea yeah yeah exactly so you know basically that's that's kind of what you know conversation has to start becoming if you're serious about you know these next future steps is um engaging as well the end users and thus getting them to um you know be excited about this as well uh and you know that's where i think it could be going you know where you're either subsidizing stuff and that's where the rewarded video stuff comes in uh you know you're giving like free stuff but in the crypto space you know like if you've got a metamask wallet and you know now they see an ad just boom here's some crypto you know that sort of idea and just over time um hey i'd love some extra bitcoin why not you know that's just my take on it anyways personal opinion on i was hoping for a lot you just said i was getting a sprinkle uh questions you want to stand up

sorry sorry mike for the recording hello i work at a media agency so i'm on kind of the other side of things and i'm glad you guys brought up that rewarded video you know there's a new kind of uh thing going on where consumers are used to it now it's expected and so when that reward comes up they're just putting down their phone in their lap for you know 15 seconds and not paying attention so the next iteration of that has been the gamification of ads i expect some wear out to start happening there too where it's not novel anymore it's kind of an expectation what do you think the next iteration is to keep people hooked so that that reward and that gamification and all of that is you know still relevant to the consumer that that's the challenge that i have every single day as a creative director what i said earlier we have to be better we have to be constantly assessing and this comes from consumer insights this comes from analytical data surrounding the ad where did people engage what did they like what they what didn't they like how do we make this better you have to keep working working working working

on the creative end and people don't like that answer because it's not a zero in one response it's not like oh just do this but like honestly iterate iterate iterate push it out see what works double down on it um that it's really getting your hands dirty with that stuff this is the stuff that stresses me out this is the stuff we had we had a campaign come in that the client was thrilled with but i know our standards and i felt like i was punched in the stomach i was like we're not good enough that would have worked six months ago not good enough and it's that's really what you got to do with with gamification with rewarded even with rewarded if you have someone who's exploring a rewarded video and they're worried about the phone treatment get them on the hud talk to them about putting them on the hud the logo make sure everyone knows who's responsible for that rewarded element if it's brand sponsored i don't know if that helps um from my end i would say you know use additional technologies to

engage with the user right you know so basically before you start showcasing ads to them this is my personal opinion so i'm coming from the other side i was a developer for many years um you know give the user an opportunity to describe who they are and and reward them for that and then once you've got a base because right now of course you know with all this stuff i'm not even going to say the stuff that we're not supposed to say but the point is you know um we have to be very careful on what data we're taking but if you can kind of gather some information about what that user likes then you can show ads that make sense uh put it this way if if it is a valuable ad or a valuable you know video they are going to watch it in my opinion they are going to be engaged with it like if i needed to you know get a certain you know widget or whatever it is um and an ad came up for it and you know because it knew what i was looking for i would be inclined to to watch that because i needed at that time but the thing is now because of all the restrictions that we've been having over the years uh we have to kind of get creative on how we get that data um with

the metaverse stuff we're gonna have machine learning and other things you know implemented but once again it's like you know just um taking the time to get to know your users in a custom way take them through a flow have that story um kind of like that whole madden example where now it's like you know it started off with here slap in your face see this ad now you have to be much more smoother about it take your time and just get that flow before and it's it is that dance right really get to know your users and they'll appreciate it in my opinion i'm just really quick on that too something to be careful with is and it might seem small but make sure you're managing your your inventory and taking a look at what the players are seeing because if they're seeing the same ad five times in a row obviously they're much more likely to just put it down and not care anymore right but if it's something different every time they look then it's more likely that it's going to catch their attention and then another thing which we kind of talked about at the beginning is just being really clear about your kpis like

if you're running a campaign and you're not getting what you want you can cut out that channel right the data will kind of speak for itself at that point and you can really zero in on the ones that are showing those relevant ads so that you can get the best results and i was going to just chuck a little extra in there if you think that people aren't doing the turning the phone over with the interstitials you're wrong they're doing it more um and you've got three seconds to get their attention which is back to your point about creativity and you know if you don't get that three-second attention you're dead anyway and a lot another little sign up for our pastor jackie also asked question um i delete all the games that have playable because i hate them because they take me out of the context i'm an outlier so i know i'm not typical but uh if you're going to take me out of context i'm going to hate it and that's not necessarily mean you don't do playable it just means you've got to be censored about who's playing the game and be targeting sorry i'm going to chuck to jackie you had a question thanks oscar and i agree with that and being an outlier too um and talking

about sort of being a bit of disruptor here i mean the the subject was seamless and for years i've been promoting seamless i launched rewarded audio as a as a as a an ad format um and so it'd be interesting to to get your thoughts on those kind of seamless formats but i'm now thinking about being not seamless and shouldn't we be thinking with our creatives about being a little bit more interrupting which our school really hates because then but i'm just trying to think about bringing the bar up again and changing constantly and i think in particular in mobile game advertising we've seen the bar changing constantly so how do you feel about being a little bit more disruptive um i i just want to touch on the first thing about playables as well because you both mentioned it so clearly you're not heavy outliers um one of the benefits of being an in-game studio is that we can make our ad seamless so people like you're welcome um but to that point as well um risk reward you're sitting at a poker table

you put your chips in you want to get real creative cool you want to get controversial cool you want to go on twitter and try type i know i know i was thinking about all the subjects um but um you know you can do it understand though the risk that you're taking on and we say this with our clients all the time when they have an ambitious idea we say cool here's how that can go right which you've obviously thought of here's from our experience how it can go wrong brace yourself for the valley if you want to enjoy the peak yeah i'd say uh it really depends uh on who your target is too right so like what kind of game is it or what kind of uh environment is it that you are going to be like in your face uh and uh so if it matches the theme like everything is in your face already um then maybe that might be a good model but i would say the best answer is not any of us it's the data let the data speak to you and if you've got if you get a return on

your investment then you know if something must be working if your data is actually saying yeah i'm making some money but that's from like the game developer's standpoint i didn't really have anything new to add yeah oh i feel i feel like you could speak to disruption though three minutes one second go just do it no i mean you don't have to but i just i as someone who is really charged with a seamlessness what how do you feel about the idea of disruptive of really like turning it over i guess yeah i mean it sounds very basic but i mean if if it works it works and then i'd be super stoked about it so i kind of just want to echo what nav has to say there which is let the data speak for itself if you implement something and it does really well that's awesome run with it um if it doesn't you know try something new and i think that's kind of where all these ideas are sort of born does anyone have any other questions bringing the mic there we go hi um i'm from uh game hive and i also

do ad monetization so i had a bit of a question for flavio um you mentioned um you briefly talked about like personalized experiences and offering like or like tailoring rewards to specific players or like diluting rewards to specific players so can you talk about that a bit more and also how has how have the recent changes in privacy kind of like changed the way you offer personalized experiences to players i think your second question we all talked about none of us are allowed to talk about changes in privacy right next panel is about privacy yeah so you can you can watch the next the next one and you can ask that question then um but to your first question uh when i mentioned diluting it it wasn't to like it wasn't tailored to any specific player or anything like that it was just us looking at whether we were maximizing the potential of the ads revenue that we were getting in and we have good comparisons because we have other titles um in our in our in our roster with all of our other sister studios that we can look at we saw what they were doing

and they were just getting much more users watching ads and like many users watching more ads per user as well so we were trying to see what we could do but ultimately we can't harm our economy right um so we had to make sure that if we were giving you know 10 coins for watching x amount of rewards and all of a sudden watching x amount of ads and all of a sudden we're doubling that we can't give the same amount of coins anymore you know but we also don't want to get players upset so overall the total amount that we're giving out is going to be more but they have to watch more ads for each individual reward that's basically what it it was amounting to thanks flavio we have 37 seconds left so if someone has a question you can zip it out quickly we can answer otherwise i'm going to get in trouble for running over we good anyone anyone any more for any more just for clarity i i'm i'm not against disruption by the way i like disruption destruction is good but you've got three seconds to get my attention that's my

point and that note i'm going to say thank you very much for the panel it's been fantastic um i i'm sure the later panel when we talk about post idfa changes a lot of those privacy questions will come up and all those various you