Knit Out’s Turkish Blueprint: Rollic Games scaling puzzle games Like a PRO

Knit Out came out in mid-March, right? But Wool Sword came out in early February. And if you go on YouTube and just search Wool Sort, you can see that it's like an unpolished kind of mishmash of all the puzzlers we've covered from this past six months on the podcast. It is super funny. Here, let you take the screen when you find the video cuz I wanted to see the disco screen. There you go, please. It's like looking. Yeah, I see. My god. Jesus Christ. And the best part, I play this game quite a lot as well. It's 4 a.m. and we're rolling the dice. Knowledge made with ads making those coins. Jack ups the sky. We're the two and a half gamers. The midnight crew talking UA adverts and game design too. M feeling shak bringing the insight. We're rocking those vibes till the early day. Master Eyes on the prize. Tracking data through the cyerspace skies. Feeling

stacks like a wizard in disguise. Japanese craft reals lift us to the high. Two and a half gamers talking smack. Slow hockey sick got your back. Ads are beautiful. They like the way. Click it fast. Don't delay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Hello. Hello. You again. Hello. Good to see you. Hey. Yeah. Are you here? Weird. It's weird not Yeah. It's weird not seeing Yakob with a shirt anymore. It's just Yeah, I know. I'm still Miami. I'm still Miami. So, it's still Miami vibes, but Yeah. Yeah. 1980. I got scalded for for black t-shirt. Then I got scolded for a shirt. again. I'm just saying you look good in a shirt. Yeah. Yeah. It's way better when we record like multiple episodes in a row

like in between like few days rather than just big pause for two weeks when I'm up. This is way more fun. So, welcome everybody. My name is Matthew Lancharich and I'm Felix Broberg. And I'm your host. Oh, we nailed it. Finally. It only took six episodes. 60 maybe 60 maybe 60 maybe maybe 60 and today we're talking about the game which is called knit out and it's done by our dear friends who else from Turkey Rolik and it's amazing I actually I actually like it knitting is cool again I mean yeah why not it's also quite uh I mean relaxing this is exactly my type of game I know mate the granny demographic Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Zero brain cells still playing this this solitire. No, no, no, man. My biggest problem is the [ __ ] Toy Story IP and they're

like if if I have button if I have a button that says skip this terrible Toy Story IP, I will pay $100 $100 immediately. Skip this stage. Do whatever else. Then I will I will do it immediately. Just a visual, nothing else. Yeah, but that drives me crazy. That visual drives me crazy. So, not anymore. Thank you very much for for this. I mean, it's still 260ish levels. Anyway, that's not important. Should we uh start with the game this time because it's just No, let's do numbers. Just Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's start with the game because it's kind of like telling right what the whole industry what's happening particular with Vietnam and China right now because this game has started to scale and already I have counted today that I found let me bring 62 games from Vietnam there's like 1 2 3 4 5 six like copies

of the core mechanic that have already been released so anyone who makes a puzzle strategy game or puzzle game needs to have pretty much a Vietnam or China strate strategy these days. Yeah. Okay. So, let's start with the game. Yes. You can really see that there's like Rolex fingerprints all over it from the moment you start playing it. I would say because it's [Laughter] 26 and 24. Great. Which is really interesting because you don't have the no ads button there. Oh, really? That's weird. Yeah, because he's Android. That's the thing. Felix, you won level seven. No, no, no, no, no, no. I knitt it out, guys. I knitted out. No, you didn't. 22. Wow. We still suck, by the way. But still, if I play this like two or three more days, I'm going to be 100, which I'm still going to do because I'm interested in what what's going to happen later. I hope you can This is going to happen later.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see. I see the the YouTube on the background. Yeah. This is actually very similar to the creatives that they have, but still it's not as hard, but it kind of gets interesting. Let's call it interesting later like in like 202 3 4. It's just it's very good. Yeah, it's super relaxing. Honestly like oh my god. What's happening here is that u again we have a big kind of iteration with the bench mechanic. Yes, which is by the way like connecting factor between all these rolling games pretty much called block gem. But all all these other games like everybody's like this mechanic is just like it creates new puzzlers. It's so good. Yeah. It's like very very goodation. I had a feeling I'm playing blog gem 3D. Yeah. with the spin. That's it. It's very very close to block gen 3D

actually. Anyway, so what's happening here? So we have the knitting on the top basically like the scarves I guess or knit Persian carpet whatever. Would you say the nittygritty? Good one. Yeah. So what's happening again? We have our bench and then we have literally like reverse block gem on the bottom. It's like yarn or Yeah, it's like the little thing that you have like the mechanics of it works literally like block gem because you need to get to like the the stuff that's behind it. So let's say if I want to pull in this piece if I need to pull the piece before it. There's these like random tunnels or hidden pieces and stuff like that. So let's say we have orange here. Want to put orange yarn here. It gets there and it's like reduces stuff and you get blue one here and yeah it took the blue

segment but it still ended up 34%. 34%. You don't really know how much percent it gets. Oh, you do, man. Oh, you do. You can you can calculate by like looking at this just orange and that's almost like either 70 or almost 100. That orange bulb almost 70 or almost 100 doesn't really sound exactly. I'm with m almost. Yeah, this is you can always say 75. 70 or let's do blue. Let's do blue. What What do you say on blue? But if you do blue, it's going to be full for sure. Okay. So, let's do blue. Yeah, but you don't really need There you go. So, it's it's not full. It was not full because there were 34%. Which is between 70 to 100. So, it's actually that block is the same amount. Same amount. like do do the orange one and it's going to be the same thing. What is like 60? He's going to he's going to lose if he does the orange right now. Yeah. Like I don't care. No, you have three.

You just do green and then you uncover what? Oh, the green in the middle there. Yes, that one. You can't do that. Did you this? Yes, that one. Yeah, just click. Fine. Then click on No, the desk locked. Yeah, but now I'm [ __ ] Now I'm [ __ ] because if you did if you did the the brown and then underneath that one, you can't do the brown is locked. You can't do the brown, man. Obstacles here. Yeah, there we go. So, you slowly need to remove the Persian carpets from the top and you shouldn't block yourself. The interesting part is that in the beginning the game literally plays itself because it takes some time for the carpets to kind of knit out and in between you can do another move and so on so forth. So it's very very relaxing but then as you see if we do this. Wow.

Yeah. It gets very very hard fast because all of these things are pretty much going on different tracks and there's like multiple combinations of moves you need to plans ahead because the combinatrics here on the bottom also hinders like how much different colors you can use. The best case scenario is pretty much do moves that unlocks all of the colors around it. So for me for instance, best case would be going somewhere here and not not do the green ones here because they don't unlock anything if I use them. But if I unlock this one, if I do this, suddenly I can do two more colors that I couldn't before. So so forth. So let's say this way and we can finally get to the orange one and so on so forth. So yeah, what I was right. I was right. Those those small blobs is like 33 or 34% and the the big ones are six the rest basically to the 100. That's right, Montia. You were right because you've never been wrong ever.

I was wrong always. I'm always wrong. It's fine. Yeah. And now I lost completely. Uh anyway, so the game play is very interesting. It's uh a combination of like relaxing puzzle and again the bench mechanic makes the difficulty there. So that's done pretty well. This is a hard level. So as I said like it's it will be basically hard. Show the boosters. Yeah. So the boosters. Well, we can play a little bit with boosters. By the way, this is a random puzzle, not the they're deterministic when you see it. Yes, because the the layout changed the colors. Because I played one one level, it was exactly the same. Really? Which was randomizer here also, which was early level though. So it might be could be maybe there's a combination. Don't know. But from my point of view, it seems like it's random. I was about to say like and it's deterministic, but I only lost lost once. There you go. Start with the scissors.

Come on. Okay. Instantly fill a selected boobin with the correct row. Press the bobin. Yeah. So satisfy the button. Yeah. Then select any bobbin on the grid. Yeah. This is pretty much the cheat code. Yes. And then the last one is just like Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, those are super satisfying. Uh, later down the line on level I think 19 or 18, you unlock one more bench slot and level on 25 on one more bench slot and that's basically it. If level 18 is when you start with interstitials I not for me. Not really. Yeah. I think it was it was a little bit different. I know I saw a first ad after the let's call it tutorial when you get actually to see the the the levels or like the the the road basically which is first 10 or 11 and then afterwards I

could see first ads and did you notice also something really interesting which they also started showing which is this which is a popup after the first interstitial to remove ads. So, it's a full screen that covers that just says you can remove ads by purchasing. And I Yes, that's that's exactly what I had. And that's the no ads. That's the no ads button right in the corner top corner afterwards. It's a bit reminiscence of uh word search. Word search because they kind of do the same when you exit the store. But I guess these pop-up things is how you push people towards an IP when you first see the ad. But super interesting. Yeah. So, because we use all the boosters, we're going to basically win the level here. I really hope so. And you can should be now easy. Oh, well. Yeah, it is. It's fine. No worries. So, and yeah, all these yarns basically out. And there we go.

There's an placement right there. Yeah. So, if we move here, pretty much we move on the usual track. I can even move it around. Incidentally, no events or stuff around it that you would usually expect there. I guess they're still kind of fine-tuning the I mean, look morning. It's like the color block jam is kind of growing since launch and they introduce different things. So, this is the next that will be the next step afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. gold block is now like going but like for me honestly it's a surprise it's a very big surprise like not not because I wouldn't expect but how much they grew like since the launch we call blockcham yeah yeah heads off that's like definitely I think it was even uh um Strauss mentioned it in the investor

I was selling the I definitely mentioned it in my hybrid casual part. Yeah, which you can check down in the description. Anyway, so can you talk about the monetization? Let me just finish the feature set. So, what happens later? Basically, more level- based mechanics are added. This is level 194 which adds these freezers. It's basically color block gem like like that's not really like bad way to go to use the mechanics they've been using like and it's one of those. Yeah, exactly. by Reno and the wheel. It's one of those like less populated mechanics curve. So you see that they don't really need to use that much mechanics as usual. Match three, which is like every 30 levels a new mechanic. This is probably much less kind of populated with new mechanics. Just the puzzle is so good to like drag it on by itself. So again, usual rolic way I would say it's literally their playbook, but it's it's done very well. I mean you talk about it

like it was super easy like ah it's a usual rollic way it's come on like this is absolutely super hard it's super hard to iterate of course but the thing is that only rollic people know the benchmark to strive for yeah for sure yeah yeah for sure because they know the funnels with these unique puzzlers they know the churn ratios they should be aim for the difficulty ratios the difficulty curves and the APS curves all of these things like they have them right in front of their eyes it's called color block jam Yeah. And you know it started with different games though like Twisted Tangle and all of these different things. They my guess is that they literally like even this game is part of a like larger undertaking of they throwing a lot of these bench mechanics around these unique puzzlers and then just seeing what works well and then just going with it. So probably even though we seeing this great game, it was probably a product of like I don't know Hunger Games between 100 prototypes like

thousand prototypes. Yeah, maybe thousand. I don't know. I think they got I'm dare to say that they got the wool or the knitting mechanic. I'm wondering if they got it from wool sort and then they iterated and made it a lot better because wool sort is very similar in terms of the core mechanic but a bit different and it came out couple of months before nit did like here if you give me the screen I can show you. Yeah as usual. So here you made it. Okay good. Yeah. So here's wool sword by side cheese. Yes. Please just go. Yes, please. Here. So, here you can see that Nit Out came out in mid-March, right? Uh, but Wool Sort came out in early February. And if you go on YouTube and just search Wool Sort, uh, you can see that it's like an unpolished kind of mishmash of all the puzzlers we've covered from this past

six months on the podcast. It is super funny. Here, let you take the screen when you find the video. Oh, can I see the disco screen? Oh, there you go. Please. Yeah. Here. Oh, it's like everything. Yes. Oh my god. Jesus Christ. And the best part, I play this game quite a lot as well. The English buttons when you first load the game for like a fraction of a second are all in Chinese before it just goes into English. Yeah. It goes Yeah. It's amazing. Isn't this something like like a strong game on WeChat or or something? Might be. We need to ask our Chinese. Definitely looks like three games together. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I'm wondering if Rolex saw that and was like knitting. Yeah, knitting. I mean, we already have screw gem. So, I mean, this is like everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yo, I heard you like puzzle games being played simultaneously. Hey.

Wow. So nice. Yeah. Anyway, we can go back to to Yeah, let's go back to Nit out. But, uh, I would love to hear what you say about the monetization mechanism like and how it pushes people into making APS. So, Nit out itself is currently doing something like u 60K uh on Fridays. Those are usually peaks on sensor tower as usual uh per day. Download wise it's doing I would say okayish because again this is uh I guess pristine traffic the best I think. Yeah. So 20k downloads a day with like 5k US downloads. Yeah. 60% revenue coming of us. So those are high CPIs. Uh active users. That's the thing. Is it though? I mean, it's the new If it would not be, then why why are they not scaling faster? But look at the active user base. Yeah, it's going up nicely. They're doing some pretty good numbers

from not that many users. It's Yeah, it's looking a bit like Grand Games in the sense of how many users they had to how much I revenue they're generating. You mean like Magic Sword? Yeah, exactly. Okay. You will see [ __ ] in this retention curve, man. I guess this is too too early. Probably. Yeah. Anyway, regarding the monetization itself, as you saw when I was playing it, it's just the usual playbook. Nothing really to it. It's like sunken cost fallacy that you want don't want to lose your progress. There's a lot of mechanisms. I didn't see streak mechanics in add them later. Yeah. Like call blockcham. Yeah. It's I think probably there's a different playbook that or let's say it's part of the drawing playbook that we agree on like removing the word playbook from this podcast please.

Okay. It was used like million times for different reasons and I would like to replace it with like you can feel what mentioned once or twice. Blueprint. Blueprint. Sure. You said you said a million times. Oh, no. Just Rolex Blueprint. Okay, whatever. Thank you. I think their production priorities are different than the usual setup that you would be expecting from some of these games because usually what what's happening here that you build like very good engaging core and you like make the meta stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger. But how I see it and how I see Rolling's game scaling is that they're actually going more and more towards refining the content and the levels and the level curves and everything. And only when these things are super balanced, then they add the metas on top of it. They don't do it the other way around as you see it with most of these games that they just like, oh, we have an engaging core, great day one, day

seven, like slap everything on it. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. So, this is not the case. So I guess again this is probably because of that blueprint that they're following that they're looking for those internal benchmarks that is this hitting day one day three ratio is this hitting this churn ratio is this hitting this level curve also say is this scalable to certain level of spent because I'm and this is not an ambush ad it's just like my way of think yeah no like my way of thinking like how like when they add like all like multiple different things that you just mentioned if this scales if it doesn't mean ROS target basically or just let's say spend levels on like let's say we if we hit 30k per day and the ROS is whatever 120 days 100% is 120 days or 90 days or whatever it's now actually if we add more we can scale if let's say the ceiling on the daily basis like 10k and we can still

make 60k it's fine but it's not like color block jam Right. So, it's like, okay, it's not worth it. Let's let's call it that way. I mean, that's that's just my way of maybe it's definitely different style of building these games than than other people that we see on the market. Can you lose the level just quickly? I've done it multiple times already. Right. So, here this keep playing, right? If you pay 900 coins, then the next time as well, it scales up, right? It's not 900 coins all the time. So if you lose it, it's 1,800. That's what they do. Standard. That's standard. That's what they do. And then they have the offer that that's that's like hexas or cell offer that that they have there. Um yeah, as I said, like it seems quite simple, but again, it's all hidden behind those curves that they're pretty much following with the difficulty and the levels and everything. curves or

difficulty curves or maybe Ross curves as well because today's episode because today's episode is brought to you by PVX partners and we were talking about ROS benchmarks and Ross curves with with DJ in our uh episode and PVX partners that's the simplest and most effective credit line for marketing scaling your game or game or business and need capital here's deal no equity dilution and flexible repayment as you get paid So, it's fast, funer friendly, and built for growth. So, visit pvxpartners.com and take control of your UA budget without giving up a piece of your company. So, pvxpartners.com. Say hello. Thank you very much. We can get back to the episode. Yeah. Hello. So, um yeah, I think that's pretty much it from like the store. I want you to go to the store as well. Products perspective. You want to actually see the screenshots or what?

No, no. Then going to the store in uh on the game. Actual store the store. It's going to the store. You mean the shop? The shop. Shop. Yeah. The blueprints thing threw me off, right? Yeah. Nothing really to it. It's simple. It's like these dynamically. These are all usually anchor points. Again, not not really to it. One other thing I wanted to show you is that if you look at the category, this is under sort actually if you go here. Yeah. So, it's sort sub genre on sensor tower. And if we go on sort sub genre regarding the IP revenue, of course, magic sword killing it, the top earner there. There's whole people, which is we need to check that out. Yeah, we need to check that out. This is also coming from our friends from Rolik and it's I saw it actually in

our bot. Yeah. Yeah, our bot caught it and it's like a very nice iteration of whole IO mechanic and I guess is firing on all cylinders for some time, man. Like this is not a surprise. Yeah. And with blueprints like that, they can't move. You see the curve here is pretty much even better curve than the one that we're talking about today. All right. So, thank you very much for listening. Let's let's talk about Yeah. Anyway, so you know the whole battle mechanic that is happening between Woodu and Homa again has spread out. So that's there. But then what I wanted to say is that on third spot regarding IP revenue is Nit out right there. And then you have all the bus gems, hexasords, car gems, C2 ways, and all the other games that are pretty much a little bit fading away, I would say, from the time we cover them up. Yeah. So, if we go to ad revenue, right?

Mhm. So, interstitials start dynamically, it seems, depending on who's playing it, but it probably comes a bit later on, right? And this is kind of a trend that we've been seeing. We've been seeing this trend kind of with a word search explorer, magic sort that you push interstitials further back to allow the core gameplay to be more engaging so users stick around. So that's definitely one of the trends for these guys, right? And it's also moving away a bit from the overall ad revenue when you're getting this much AP revenue. So you can watch a rewarded video if you're out of lives as to refill a life without a cap. I saw six in a row just to get more lives. But also the timer for refilling lives is quite short. I think it's 10 minutes per live. So just put the phone down, you come back and you can play again. But just look on the different monitor and then it's back. Exactly. Exactly. Play a different game on the same

monitor. And then you have the two coins after each level. And then if you don't watch uh a rewarded video, then you get an interstitial. And the interesting thing here is what I said was that remove ads popup that comes after the first interstitial. Um kind of yeah which is a bit similar to kind of word search explorer how they force you kind of to watch a rewarded ad like after you leave a shop. It's kind of just pushing users I guess to just want to remove the ads. Also one interesting thing is the session length according to sensor tower is 7.7 minutes per day over 2.2 sessions. So there's really not that much time to watch that many ads. So I think ad revenue is anywhere between right now 15 to 20k per day which is 23 to 26% but it's not more than that because there's no banners. There's no banners but still you definitely want to watch the double

coin. Yeah the double coin. Yeah the double coin. But if it's true with these session lengths, there's not that much time to watch that many rewarded ads. So, what I put down was pretty much uh three rewarded ads and 3.5 interstitials. Man, you can watch way more than three rewarded videos at least five or six. The thing is, right, okay, okay, let's just let's just bump it up to five, right? Right. If we bump it up to five, the overall ad revenue is still 22k per day, which is 30%. Right. So, definitely we're close here. We're between 23 to 30%. It's not going to be 40. It's not 50. Like it's like No. Okay. You could see it also on the downloads like there would be different traffic volume. For sure. For sure. Yeah. For sure. But it's kind of interesting cuz now all these games that are scaling. Yeah. It's like search explorer like Magic Sword like they're scaling and they're pushing back ads. So yeah, ads are getting push because everybody's turning to casual from Android. Yeah. Because you know what you want to

end up with is not uh hexasord that lasts for a year and like is great. You want to end up with color blockchem forever but pretty much grows to monster size on IP can sure also with with IIP monetization what comes is high CPI it depends if you have a web shop or not right is there a web shop that's true I don't think there's a web shop but I think they should definitely call fast springr because you know this episode is also brought by our other sponsors, Fast Spring, the No Drama D2C partner which is trusted by top mobile publishers worldwide. They've been delivering D2C at scale for over 20 years with fast growth, profitability, and financial stability to back it up. So, if you want to launch a new web store, go to fastpring.gg or replace your current vendor still

fastpring.gg real world scale, reliable fastpring.g GG. There you go. Why did you turn out to do these like some kind of Super Bowl commercial? That's amazing. What? Cuz look at him. He's a redneck. I have few I have few more in my sleeve and he will [ __ ] your pants. He literally [ __ ] your pants. You know, I want to see some creatives cuz I'm wondering how they're doing it. I'm assuming it's just the gameplay creatives or is there anything uh unique? Do they have real life hooks with knitting? I haven't seen the best opportunity. Yeah, for sure. Grand knit and knitting. Oh, Jesus Christ. I could see like ASMR someone pulling out a wool like sweater and just taking it out. Really? Yes, that's what I want to show you. So, they creative, which is not even their game, right? So, this is I see one as well. Yeah. So, I was like, "Oh, wait a second." And then then I saw the the end

card. I was like, "Okay, this is it feels like a different game." Wait, it is. It is. So, there was a testing the CPIs of their competitor was probably just yeah, just took this and then and try this out. But yeah, we have all of all of these a different kind of is this a competitor or a different? No, no, this is this actual this actual uh need out creative. It's just different perspective. But all of these and and watch closely that uh because I'm going to ask you one question at the end of all of these. Yes. A thousand times. Yes. Yes. I'll marry you. Thank you very much. Because they all I think like 99% of their ads is one thing in common, one thing only. And I hope you will you will see it. But I kind of I think you will. But anyway, I will still ask what is it? So it's like

follow the nail. You wish. Direction of the core gameplay. It's Yeah, there like these are the iterations of like the different perspectives. Just different angles from side to side. Different angles. Yeah, it's different angles. It's different angles, but it's not exactly. They have also like this different pictures which I will get into it. But also, I cannot knit the knots. [ __ ] hell. Like, it's such a great headline. It's all It's basically all the same, right? I will get to it. This again slightly slightly more ASMR stuff. Mhm. Which is which is great to see. Although the actual sound effects are absolutely annoying, so it really destroys the whole ASMR effect. Oh, [ __ ] It kills my ears. Why don't they have a hook with someone like breaking a sweater? Like a knitted sweater.

Yeah. Or just grandma knitting. Yeah. Doesn't matter. AI hook. Grandma sitting on on the chair and just knitting. That's it. This is really nice. Imagine if they got Pedro Pascal to knit. Great. And then solving a mystery. Oh, wait a second. That's different game. So all these different variations which is also kind of angles, colors. Yes. Interesting. Oh, there we go. What? It's not exactly what you thought it is. It's not Yeah, that was the first thing. Then then like I thought that there would be the snake. Come on. Like you will need a sweater for a snake. No, I will need the snake. Yeah, you would you would need the snake again. Exactly. There is also one thing which is common even in this this creative. They're running CTV ads. No. Well, not really. Although

they could if they call VIP our dear sponsors because if you want to launch CTV campaigns, you go to vibe.co call and you can launch CTV on Hulu, Roku, Tubi, you name it in minutes because it's very simple, totally selfs serve and actually drives real business. 5,000 brands are already using it. So maybe maybe it's your turn. Check out vibe.co. That's vibe.co. Tell them we we sent you because you want to launch some CTV campaigns and we want to show I want to show you some more creatives of the I really need to try this. It's is becoming from ambush ads to trigger ad meaning that whoever says it first triggers mate like a jukebox. Yes. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. So, it's all of these different things

again. What's what's the like the the the thing that I'm I'm trying to trying to ask? What what all of these they have in common? One thing. Tell me. Someone has the radio on in the background. Maybe that's just uh annoying. It's It's the core It's the core gameplay and they just change direction and colors and they don't change. Okay, then I don't know guys every every creative that I showed you it's 30 second long. Everyone, every every and 30 seconds 30 seconds 30 seconds every 30 seconds 30 seconds 30 everything is 30 seconds guys. Like this is absolutely terrible. I mean honestly why why would you even

do this? It's just uh and this is my life easier as No, finally. There we go. 50. Finally. This is exactly what what you need especially on Facebook these days long form creatives if you if you watched or maybe you are going to watch the the creative trends. I'm going to talk about like how the how the long creatives are actually really working on Facebook and for a lot of different games. And this is exactly what you need. Uh it doesn't really matter if it's just one long creative or just two creatives stitched together. Uh, it still needs to be anything above like 45 seconds or more than 45 seconds. But this is this is kind of So why is it bad for non UA people because you you need diff we got 30 seconds. Do you remember when we did the the research with DXL and Philippo Traite? We had modular creatives by like 5

seconds and we tested anything from 5 seconds until one minute and every different length unlocks different placement on Facebook and gets different types of traffic. It's always good to have like and also like some companies Yeah, it's very missed opportunity. Some companies do like 15 seconds and 30 seconds. Nothing in between. It's like 22 seconds, 25 seconds. Why do they do it then? Why? Because that's template. Because someone said in the in the big in the past like you need to have 15 or 30. Okay. Nothing in between. Yeah. And the creative team is just stuck in the template. Yeah. Exactly. Come on guys. Like you can actually do 28. And some companies what what they do is just to have the 30 second video. They have 20 seconds of gameplay and then they they they prolong the end card for 10 seconds. It's like why? Yeah. Exactly. Why? Because we we need 30 second videos. Why? Oh, because someone said so. Okay, good. Thank you

very much. Anyways, but all of these. So, yeah. And this is what I want to show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At least this is actually quite nice. How many seconds? That's AI. There you go. That's of course it's AI. Of course. So, it was kind of nice. Uh but they have all the different kind of uh UI channels but I still think they're 100% mediating on max like they're max power users metal. I haven't seen that one before. It's an SSP really. Okay. If you want to know what's SSP, go to check out Mooco episode we we did a couple of weeks ago. I mean I mean honestly it was a really good episode in terms of like the learning the basics. I thought it was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they have lot why I showed you the all the Instagram and Facebook placements in the beginning because they have like majority of the the traffic coming from Facebook and Instagram apparently based on the sensor type data but they still have the the app loving

and unities and all of the different things. But if we go to actual playables only it's holding the app. It's no it's integral up. It's kind of all over the everything but yeah majority is uploading but still mint integral it's taking the the biggest track spend but apparently on standard tower for some reason everything is kind of attributed to to me integral for some reason almost always. So even though it's not not true always. Yeah. So I mean so there's one one playable there's another playable. So it's like it's it's I would say so I guess Rolic is a casual gaming company these days. Huh? There it's not only this. Yeah.

Okay. That's interesting with the brain power increasing like the impulse or Einstein. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what just like come on. No, no, no. Like just like that. That's how it works, man. Smiley on the brain. It doesn't even look like brain. Looks like some pink whatever. Yeah, it's a brain. It's a brain. It's a brain. It's a brain. So I think if they could scale this the same way as they they did with color glob like it's perfect. It's very satisfying. It's very easy to to I mean to use the different angles and different perspectives on the creative side I think. Okay. Can still play. Okay. Okay. It's much harder when sideways. Wait. Yeah. It's okay. And we are the

looking at the same thing. Background. Yeah, this is nice. I cannot Oh my god, the brain got on LSD this time. Yeah, this is just like where where's the the brain? Look. Yeah, where's where's the BL looking? Yeah, but look, you know what this? Okay, so it is no fail. Sorry. Okay, let's check this one. Hello. It's just an end card. Jeez. Okay. Well, look, we have only like a couple of playable, so they could do better in this. I would say also if you know, you saw the the flower picture and the knitting. So, why it's not in in this case in in the playables as well? It's like that's you can do so many different pictures and things with these. But they're they're only getting 87,000 downloads a day right now, right? Do you really need that many playables with

that download scale deal? Yeah. I mean, why? Wait a second. 87 downloads a day. Where did you get that? Yeah. Really? 87,000 or no less. 20K 20k. How much do you think they're spending on that? A lot. What do you think a CPI on a game like this would be? A lot. That's the thing. I I I don't think it's a lot, but they find a lot. Most probably not not close to match free at all. I mean, if match free is 30, I would say this is what like 10 in the States or global? In the States, I would say I mean, wow. I that's that's my assumption. Non casual match experienced people. still a lot without all the live ups and events in there. So that's the thing. Yeah, it can get better. Also collectible albums and all this all this fun stuff. Well, if it's of course. Yeah, exactly.

But honestly, like yeah, this the experience like the the UA and the creatives, I was very pleasantly surprised because when we were talking about the twisted angle, I was like, "Fucking hell, guys." I mean, come on. What is this? What is this? Is great. Well, I know people at Roic listen to this podcast, so you know, well done for knocking out. Great job. Oh, yeah. Great job as always. I think that's it. We need We need Yeah, we need to hear more from you guys. Uh if you have any Don't worry. We We're going to hear more from all people. It's going to be soon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Give a couple weeks. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you very much for listening. Please subscribe, share the the episode with whoever you want. Of course, please comment under the episode. It's very popular, especially I'm very popular in the comment section. So, please continue with your mean tweets and comments. Maybe you will reach something. Anyway, okay. Thank you. See you next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. [Music]

[Applause] [Music]