How to capitalize on the eSports revolution

so so obviously high knees already been up and said as well so maybe bill you'd like to quickly introduce yourself from what is you do so my name is Bill Mooney I'm chief product officer at skills I'm a longtime industry veteran I just came from an interesting year at EA where I made galaxy of heroes while the game that has been interesting and I left it to go to skills because I was interested in fundamentally different player motivation yeah skills sort of approaching eSports from very different dimension sort of vainglory sort of trying to essentially be sort of the elite full thing we're really trying to sort of take that core player motivation of being interested and sort of coming at it from the participation standpoint yeah and so I'm they're involved and it's a business where i finnaly believe that eSports which is why I'm on this panel is actually a much bigger

opportunity than people probably see it as already okay cool that's that's good it's Segway nice thing to my first question there so at the moment there are various kind of things that be the next big thing I've er's the most overhyped of them honestly and any sports there's no one which is it was gone I in mobile especially it's all about eSports that's how you know that's what you've got to be in tune out and it is looking at the kind of the market sort of size in terms of the kind of value at the moment it's it's I all think it's lower than I expected to be consuming the engagement numbers are kind of huge so you know is it you're going to say yes but you have to a question so is it is that is the guy hype justified and and and how big how big I guess could eSports get in the next couple years well one quick note on why I actually don't like VR although i love my vibe is because fundamentally not enough people have in their hands the thing that about eSports and the thing that skills because it's sort of more the platform play I was in traditional games console etc and then I

went to Zynga very early when we were at 30 people oh wow and that was great as you are but we were 3500 yeah oh yeah and I had farmville and mafia wars at their biggest and zynga poker and the thing that the pattern Rick should i have for eSports as a whole is that what happened with facebook is that it was distribution to people who thought they weren't gamers and it doesn't seem like this a lot of people here I'm sure hate social games and facebook games but in fact the core player motivations were actually profound deep gamer plays I mean many of the best games were made by a bunch of RTS people yeah and I mean machines own those guys were social game makers that whole trend arose directly out of kingdom Camelot which started his Facebook etc so what was interesting about that it was I think fundamentally Facebook was about a distribution play and about sort of social possibility and eSports to me is actually tapping the sort of the sports part of it which is good competition yeah right and the fact is one of the negatives in my opinion about the way mobile has gone banglar accepted and some other stuff accepted is that it has minimized a disadvantage

of pay to play is it tends to make it very disadvantaged for multiplayer yeah and I think stuff like League of Legends i'm sure you guys spend tons of time on this of and going all the sort of the prominent eSports games is it's about fairness and people want that narrative of watching people compete fairly yeah and I think from my perspective I mean facebook games were extremely frankly disdained when I joined and they I think never really were embraced by a sort of the broader game community whereas eSports I think there's that hardcore because everybody who works in industry is much more likely to that kind of see that kind of game but it's much broader because that core motivation exists and there are two billion phones out there and people like to compete okay so you're upbeat so how how big is it going i mean like the mobile industry right now is worth like 55 billion dollars or something apparently they're all numbers in the air so you know is it going to be like ten percent of our is it going to be it'll be a third would you my own guess and the reason I say that is the way it works for monetization is that your most hardcore people are disproportionately a part of the revenue they're disproportionately part of the hours i'm sure the gentleman ryan from

twitch would say the same thing it is your passion people who send the most who play the most to put in the most hours i'm sure for vainglory your top ten percent or fifty percent of your plays seventy percent of your money you know whatever the percentage would be so I think it'll actually be much more money yeah I'm not say a word yet exactly but the point being that and i think that there's a much bigger audience for you and it will be worth a lot and the thing is there are two billion phones i mean i think something like eighty percent of everybody has at least a game on their phone and yes to being smart right i think is actually the figure this is the phones is bigger than two billion smartphones i'm sorry i don't even care well you know we can still do some unless your whatsapp you know yeah go further and so does i said what you obviously you just for stats that I'm just a bit of it cuz that one about but so do you agree with that kind of estimation you were looking at the size of the mark and you obviously looking in the space yourself do you think that it's going to be how big it could get definitely uh then like I said I alluded to a little bit of that in my presentation but obviously I'm a liberal bias I mean we're all in the space any

of the reason why from a developer's standpoint from a platform standpoint from a Content standpoint you know we're in the space because we really believe that it has the potential to grow and in terms of our audience size I think the easy way I'm you know Christian for being we're obviously mixed mention to just a lot of articles about the number of devices that are out there but I think as well just because right now the space is so new and it's unlike eSports when eSports first started um I said this in my presentation as well everybody started with a Korean movement with starcraft never no one really thought of competitive video games until you know some people really talk seriously and took it to the next level I'm people fought it is kind of fun to watch but no eSports has been building up for the past you know ten plus years already and I think it's an easy transition to mobile because people can already see what's happened with the League of Legends seen what happened with the cs go see so I think your potential is definitely huge she's so we're looking a guest to make around about 10 10 to 11 billion dollars so in the next couple years probably probably

next year if we like it so I looking at the kind of makeup of that of that well that could be like I mean right now obviously MOBA vainglorious MOBA it's it's it's kind of made for mobile version of what's already out there it's brought some innovations and stuff but it is using something that's already out there and and it's quite deep and hard core involved I I played it and I'm not very good at here because I just I think I'm too old and slow on the other side you've got experiences like you know that supercells kind of clash I which is much lighter it's a three minute game anybody can pick up and play there might be very good at it but do you think that eSports in pc it feels me eSports is very much the real super hardcore more involved games teenage teenage players whereas do you think mobile eSports can be more broad you know is will it be this kind of spectrum where you've got the kind of clash royale light lighter at least entry point up into the more involved MOBAs if you're directing the question

to me i think everybody yeah absolutely yes um I mean to kind of add to those numbers a little bit if you look at eSports Pete there's around 700 to 800 million pcs around the world and eSports is a big thing if you look at smartphones i think that the number is three billion smartphones out there so if you look at the potential reach of eSports the numbers are just humongous right so so mobile eSports has the potential to become a mass-market thing and if the bigger the thing becomes obviously you'll have a broader selection as well yeah and much like in pc like i mentioned earlier it's it's not only League of Legends and dota 2 u.have hearthstone competitions you have CS co you have rocket League you have a ton actually happening any sports and I do find that in mobile eSports there's going to be similarly and a lot of space for multiple titles maybe people want to watch competitive candy crush I don't know that could that could be hurting I mean if you look at mobile gamers overall it's such a broad piece I think the kind of the definition of gamer

overall has changed largely due to mobile because we all suddenly play games not only just you know hardcore hardcore gamer folks so I definitely do think that eSports moberly sports especially will and should look different as well I mean you'll have the competitive but which which we stand for you know like the kind of hardcore you know lets you know do these big tourneys and all that but then you'll also have different kinds of kinds of things happening I'm excited for that and I'll waiting on that just I agree completely coming from an opposite angle one of the things I was just looking at the other day because I was curious about it is there's something like 10 million views of candy crush videos on YouTube mmm right I mean the most casual your mom plays a game out there and people are actually why people play streaming and it's not just how to beat it yeah so I I mean we're pursuing it from that we want all the people who play in stink people vital people who are great at it but we fundamentally agree it's a huge market so I said we were sorry man just adding to that you know general presentation I talked to the river China and a bunch of

games out there that consider themselves mobile eSports 0 a 1 a kind of extreme but fun example is these dancing rhythm games because it does take skill there is that synchronous competition aspect to it and people actually like watching it goes back to the arcade days up oh no you guys member like Dance Dance Revolution yeah that's competition to seeing somebody be actually good at the arcade and realizing that you can actually watch that yeah then you walk away before you answer before you have to go yeah that's silly why did um but yeah that's really interesting so so we're looking to market so the title market we're looking at maybe even more bright than there is in the pc in market um it's a question which is you know if you're a developer you're a publisher can you make can you go out to make an eSports game and if so what does it take you know or is all you have to just make a multiplayer game and see you know is it something yeah because it feels to me like things coalesce around something but you didn't necessarily sell out maybe did but I don't know you can you make it can you just go make any sports so in my opinion no you can't you have

to focus on building a great game and then trusting your community to maybe want to play it competitively and that's really kind of what happened to us I mean we're like all right let's let's make this mobo man you know what it would be really awesome if people one day wanted to play competitively but that's like 10 years from now and then all of a sudden were like we were in like alpha beta something only in Singapore and we had the first competitions running right you said encouraged that you've taken home but yeah it was like oh shoot we're really not ready for this but people want this then okay fine let's make it happen that's how we ended up building the spectator client really quickly and then kind of growing it from there and I do think that it really comes down to building great games you need to make really good games that like you said are a fair are not pay to when they have to be based on skill they have to be based on strategy and to keep it interesting to watch right and then pretty much it's up to the community if they want to compete with them or not but I guess what is the tipping point and you've kind of made I will split it

down but just to sit you said you made the game is very it was very mobile it was their mobile mobile it's like you know it's great hardcore game and then and then yeah at some point it was a tipping point we thought yay let's just get behind its Australian we aren't we are we've got what it takes to be this eSport thing was it you said there was somebody else up a competition that what was the catalyst oh yeah it was a German guy called Tomic who is the founder of vainglory League which is still our biggest community run organization and he really wanted to do competitive in glory stuff playing from Germany on a server in Singapore uh-huh and that's really where it started from so what they did cuz it's a 3v3 game so they decided that two people play and then the third people their third players are only spectating that's how they were actually running a competition at that point it was like way too early really great keep going and then a little bit later when we actually had launched the game to iOS we were able to start actually thinking about supporting it later better forum and then perfect I

told you what do you think I mean like do you think it's it's possible to to SAP a SAP a game to be more likely to succeed as any sports was not being fair we talked about I've been asked a good game of a multiplayer game is anything else you think that would helps yeah I'll just add to that um no it does a really good example they wrote in and that actually nobly stresses importance of community and the engagement with the actual players you know we talked about streaming we talked about running events and tournaments and a lot of it has to be driven by the people that play their game because they see it as a competitive product and they see it as something that they want to spend hours upon hours of the day to you know not just a play but almost two masters so you know alluding to what you were saying about your having at the bingo tournament know what I'm seeing with some of the games so recently I've talked to critical ops so you're there a person shooter so they're in the alpha stage and all ready to start to build up a community because there's that fan base that likes to play first person shooters on mobile so I think as a developer you can only do so much to

build a game but I know keeping in mind that in one once this game goes live are people going to be so engaged with it that they want to produce their own content on Twitch they want to record the game play and they want to keep playing competitively so that maybe one day they can't win a prize so what I'm seeing in Asia sometimes it's too forced so you know a lot of companies a lot of love Charlie's games like about a high percentage of Chinese games consider themselves to be kind of evil right right and sometimes just throw in cash prizes to get people to play and I think it's the wrong motivation to get people to try to play a game because there is a cash prize in the tournament so I think it needs to be beyond that and the engagement of communities is a lot yeah I mean communities come up at like 17 times i guess i guess in this whole process your internal structure community manager or community team is pretty damn important in the whole thing because it's nurturing those guys that you know i know that for the supercell even before they're looking small stuff like the community management roles bri Central's the whole team is that the same for ya

same for us i am our biggest team internally i think is actually the community management team so we have goodness probably 20 community managers so one per okay many countries that stay very closely to the community help support community level initiatives because actually once one part about our eSports yes we have our official seasonal structure that we run together with twitch but we also support community run organisation immense yeah exactly it's like we have a feat illegal exactly there was just a group of friends in Thailand who wanted to organize a competitive things we're like here great have some in-game currency will send you some stickers please send us some photos you know like also supporting that is very important the community is feel it and kind of also to add into your point I do feel like gamers are very allergic somehow to see what's kind of genuine and what's trying to be forced on them and I do feel like if as a developer you're like I'm gonna build an eSport i'm pretty sure it's gonna backfire i don't i think people like gamers just sense that and they're

like no that doesn't feel right that does it feel real and there's something about just kind of making genuinely good games so it's a good game it's it's obviously multiplayer it's gotta be fair and not pay-to-win which is kind of often that's different is that busted struggle because if you're making a game to make my money then other Peter win tactic certainly in Asia especially is is a big part of it but and then communities the next thing NHL lunch some of this you can jump how they might come see now you've been saying that quietly I thought no it's no worries I'm not to give honey a hard time but there's no way that you guys didn't make vainglory with eSports of mine I know I've heard some of your investors think about tied up to your opinion but also say that is not the case okay maybe so I think it's some degree depends on the audience of this I think it is an absolute red ocean right now to do the standard stuff and especially you know it sort of depends who sort of the audience of this talk is if I'm a developer Yeah right if you have something that takes off I mean fair competition commun all that stuff matters you really should listen to the players right but I think it's important

to not go at this in the absolutely no way that everybody else does I mean rocket League to me is a great example of a game that I would not think anybody would have predicted that would have become a non-trivial eSport game right here's a game where its cars playing soccer so amazing game and it's awesome but that flight three times before to least twice before right so this is the interesting point and I use that as the only really significant of that I don't know top eight or ten I don't know the exact numbers of the sort of the most popular sports but here is the game that's the outlier right and if I'm a smaller developer and I'm not exceptionally well funded I do not try and say I'm going to be fangore I'm going to beat CSKA right i mean good for you you might be the one that wins but even like I mean clatter always Finn was fascinating because they took their different take on it you know our position is we don't care what kind of game wins we just want people to use us as sort of a platform play yeah but my suggestion is I think it's a broader motivation is it fun to play somebody else with high stakes yeah if you can say that about your game I'm not whether money whether leaderboard weather or stickers it doesn't matter yeah it is if your game is more fun when you're

competing and the competition is serious and there's some element of strategy which there is because it's a game that is something that then you have an element of an eSport and then all this fair competition is critical I mean we're running on Twitch we didn't talk about in this but we have a number of the top 200 streamers people are watching bowling tournaments and are participating actively and people are rerunning them I won't mention the streamers names just go look it up but people are doing this for a bowling game that's clearly to me sort of as they're watching and one of the guys is kasuba koopa troopa who does a prominent one in clash of clans obviously there to learn about clash of clans but they're doing our bowling thing and my point on that is for a variety of games and you know we have a variety of different games people have that same motivation as long as it's your affair and as long as you can tell a narrative about it because I really think that's the key element that there is a narrative whether by person by play or whatever then I would think more broadly yeah and i think there's no accounting for people will watch some people pay to watch england play football for instance i never understood that but so just knew i was going to

come back to anyway so I think we've with there's different types cavity spoilers eSport that's set with a big tournament and multiplayer thick and and skill gaming is is is is in that eSports pace but it's quite a different expression some degree I mean it's much more about playing competitive with you know existing games it could be not every game but lot of games with your kind of friends for some surprises now right so I mean the skill gaming part of it is the idea that it's what it's forced us to do from my perspective is be really strict about fair competition because skill gaming which we offer in a number of places is you would play somebody else in a particular game and it perfectly even circumstances with the exact same setup and you both basically put in a tournament entry and somebody wins some money Deb get some we get something yeah that's not the majority of our play and I'll be blunt that that while I think of meaningful part of our business is to me the beginning part of our business yeah what's good about that is because we have to deal with skill gaming because we have to deal with real money we have to be really tight about fraud we have to be really tight about

fairness and that I really think is the more important component to it because it's you know if you play poker with your friends if you don't play for money people don't play poker right yeah you know and that's the fundamental online with her even though he's got money it's not fun like clash Royale as good a game as it is it's very annoying when you have somebody who is has the same type of trophies and higher leveled units than you yeah right and that is one of the minor dings of that game to me that limits it because I mean it's satisfying if you have level 9 units to beat the level 11 unit yeah but it's still cheating it a little and from my perspective I really don't care if they play for money i don't care if they play for virtual currency i want them in fair tournaments where they can trust i want us to sort of be the referees and i think for people making games can you play your game fairly could you sit with your friends around a table you know put money put bragging rights put something you care about put the trophy of if anybody's ever seen the league that girl they went to high school with us and have somebody care about that because that is the core player motivation and that motivation I think people as gamers tend to blow off the sports part of eSports because we're all you know no we weren't all great at

sports baby so yeah okay great englander Santa you know like we're like yeah sports whatever but there is a profound element of that and what's fun about sports is you want to be in a what you care about when you play pick-up basketball is that you find a good team where it's evenly matched yeah that is the core element and even if you're mean it's great if you're good i mean lots and lots of kids aspire to be on the team's to be a lead at one of the games but simply getting out and playing basketball is fun yeah if you can find a good match yeah right and that's I mean that's certainly our angle on it but there's not any level yeah I get the point it's being able to compete at a level where yeah you're not going to be playing against the vainglory guys in the tournament there's a lot of old guys at the gym playing basketball are playing song and it's still fun you still like it you still are involved and it's still the great mouthing the day I agree i think that's the way it opens up is when that that tournament competition can come down to everybody and everybody let me do you have any gear from a peer favorite pro football player at this point very but i have any favorite pretty good soccer sorry yeah definitely you do right and then you can't help ya

because you're still get to play in a little bit yeah yeah no exception on that actually have a comment question with despite the fact that I'm a panelist but I want to do a little bit of moderation as well because I think it brings up an interesting topic that I've been thinking a lot about as well is that with eSports perform you know we talked about number of products that out there and especially let's say a lot number of games that have integrated with skills you know as a player if I would want to be good at a game and consistently win I have to pick the game that people play as well so you know it's the same thing with the Olympics way about aspire to be an Olympic athlete which sport that I want to dedicate my time to you so that I can become a professional and try to go for gold so what's your take on that Mia as a player let's say it's risky for me to come by on my resources to try to be good at something when there are so many games out there but knowing that there's a risk that pad for your down the line this game might not be around anymore so I don't know how you would address that so I guess from my perspective it's great that somebody wants to be a pro gamer that's less interesting to me I

would say if you like that'd be good a lot of games when you get traction on and go I just want everybody to play something where they're playing it fairly I don't care I really don't care what game it is I suspect that Lancias people have a long-term allegiance to a game I bet that they don't carry more than two games that they're serious about free sports because the cognitive load is significant to understand a game at a profound level what I hope is they have that one they love and they aspire to be professional and there are a couple others that they're trying that are fun that are part of their lives and that really and this is speaking as an old school gamer I just want to have multiplayer that doesn't suck on mobile yeah yeah I mean that's really the thing in most places it's you know it's not it's broken and free to play no okay but yeah unless you're talking about a nice part that's why I got so um where we were intimate for the group privileged say so is anybody have a question I've got a couple more things to ask anybody got a question for we got mandal question here gone forever microphones come in and microphones coming Brandon forest sorry I always want to say that

let's get unger that's gonna have to pay for that later I think not too much is this even on yeah okay not so much a question but actually I just on what Ted was saying i'm actually a former pro gamer for warcraft p and basically what happened is the game dropped in popularity like completely off nobody was really playing it anymore and it's kind of sure you it's like okay so you're really good at this game nobody's playing anymore what do you do now and you kind of have to move on to something else so there's that bisque like you're saying right there just when you were talking about i just had to say something that's all oh yeah so how long did you play and how kind of good you together i was a number one north america for that sounds good oh thank you yeah what so yeah what do you play now right now uh I don't know I play like League of Legends of like plant level so nothing really yeah I played magic online was top 64 in the world by well no a year or two ago not so much anymore but so your frustration is that

you dedicate your time to this it's like someone going I'm pressure football we stopped playing football now is it's that kind of yeah it's like if you're gonna be a pro athlete at football it's like well you know football's gonna be around it's still going to be there in ten years yeah yeah so it's really awful to be like oh well you're really good at game and then in five years that games not nobody plays anymore so nice but it's a very good point I mean I obviously there's kind of bellwethers is the count strikes people still playing as been around the hell of a long time yeah and what I was doing when I was young enough to be good at games that was a that was counter-strike was the things but um but yeah counter-strike stop played today as well I mean csgo very popular so okay hard send the other pro gamers a dream start unfortunate if you get caught in the wrong ones cool all right well notes that is interesting interesting insight um I've got to kind of more questions if we can wrap up and go grab some lunch so what one is that we've talked about earlier in the brand panel and it's kind of been a theme of this whole tour track is about the International H of the industry mobile more than any other

games part the games industry is truly truly international and so in terms of the variance eSports in Asia is obviously as a whole far more advanced there and and what are the main difference is how you know are you thinking a game you know as vainglory obviously doing planets out there but can you can you be any sport everywhere or do you have to kind of focus in on a region yes you can be an eSport everywhere but you also need to really focus on each of the regions and playing to their strengths and strengths and differences yeah I'm on super evil side we're super focused on North America and Europe and then we work with partners in Asia so we have we've worked together with ogn on game network in Korea for the past year so they've run competitive vainglory there that's been broadcast on TV and it's pretty impressive stuff yeah so so they really know how to address that market and I think Korea especially is kind of the prime example of of eSports overall it's just been around there so so much longer than anywhere else it's very established and then

we're also working and together with giant and China there are publisher so we're kind of working on the eSports side of things together with partners over there so honestly like I'm not the best person to kind of address the difference no no no yeah but I think mobile eSports especially is so young everywhere that kind of the very same kind of questions problems opportunities and threats kind of occur globally and I do think that especially kind of our community is very passionate to see these kind of region versus region competition or world's competition to kind of really compare which region is actually better and I do that do you think that mobile especially because the games are inherently so global and in the hands of people across the world I think there's a lot of interest from gamers to see see each other from around the world that's what we did with Samsung Eddie 3 we had a European team u.s. team that was German Germany US China and Korea playing an

invitational that was super fun and the players were and the audience was ecstatic about it so cool yep she have any ties I know you had some date wish I met him over here so yeah well we that I would go back and read after but yeah I mean I talked a little bit about China so I think one of the break-up opportunities in China is just the fact that you know they were late adopters in terms of gaming right they never had console gaming so yup the way that every household had a new Playstation no they never went for that experience and you know they don't have the space that's saying I live in Hong Kong for a little while and this is not a you know space for a pc game room right so mobile is big because it's so much more accessible and everyone has a smartphone there so I mean that's why the companies in China you know we're so aggressive in trying to push it on mobile eSports and that's why I mentioned that your coins you stupid at a twenty four percent of a top-100 worst thing games are considered mobile eSports games there so but I considered by the publishers are considered by the public no I mean that's like how you perceive them but

yeah I think you know that's one difference I've spotted and just you know the make up of the market the way people play the games obviously with mobile eSports you're the more mobile devices and the more mobile gamers there are that big potential it has okay cool and fire fight quest i get about warm quest one prediction I guess Tencent of recently quite a small Finnish company and they already have you know they already owner a relatively large eSports business already I mean do you think there's going to be any do you think that'll shake up mobile sports a little bit i mean i'm i'm not saying all cos gonna let them come in and change what they're doing but clearly you know that they've got they've got sort of league of legends and and and supercells you know clash royale is going that way do you think that's going to be accelerate that kind of growth of of that game and other games will affect the market one of you see but just having work in china i mean i've worked a little bit of ten cent and you know a lot of people talk about the synergies between the companies they own but the interesting for ten cent is that those investment panel yesterday too and

they talked about how hands off the steel is so yeah you know super cell still has full independence and they can still pay finish tax and everything else and that's the same way Tencent has approached all the companies that they've put stakes in because you know people talk about that they don't riot they don't supercell but they also own a piece of glue miniclip pocket gems so on so forth right so you know there's a lot of synergy within these companies but i think they purposely yeah and so i think there will be conversations but i wouldn't expect it to be like here riot to talk to supercell make something happen i don't think that's gonna happen okay yeah i fully agree on that I know supercell folks quite a few and for them it's it's always about independence and also always about long-term vision and I do think that 10-cent offers them a different kind of reach and potential in China that they haven't had before and I and I'm kind of curious to see what comes out of out of it and in the coming year and kind of whatever supercell will

do in the eastward space i'm pretty sure it's going to be awesome so don't do that yeah yes already done it I think the lead the sort of the story buries the lead which is clash royale is eSports yeah it is eSports for a much broader audience yeah and it is going it is transforming I guarantee you there were ten percent of all the games being out there are deconstructing the hell out of that game trying to figure out anywhere yeah there's worry about 50 clouds is now exactly so final thing is any one piece of advice it's all being video be out there one piece of advice the guys wanting to get into this space they've got a mobile game may be successful is at any one piece overriding piece of advice if you want to try and compete as a developer publishing the mobile games eSports pace from my point and honestly listen to the community and kind of what you were saying that vainglory wouldn't have been built without eSports in their mind if I'm saying that correctly I mean there's a point to that I mean yes we built vainglory to be a great game but then when the community started wanting to play competitively we listen to that and responded yeah so so in that sense I do

agree and obviously adding in features and adding in content that does make it more eSports appropriate is very good but also I wouldn't forget about the the less competitive players I think there's a certain part of the player base that will be competitively minded and really want to go for that but you also have a broad base who just want to enjoy a great game so don't neglect those people never think bill I would say keep it simple keep it polished keep it fair okay I would not be adding a lot of features I would keep it I would resist the temptation to add a million units it's much more fun I mean I think the reason starcraft was so popular for so long as they were obsessive about tuning that game they were by far the first live service in any meaningful sense they chip just kept going in they watched the heck out of how people played and kept finding breakers kept changing it kept fixing it if you have your game and you have some traction just get it right at the absolute core because you will get an audience if people like it if they retain retention is king and i think for eSports fairness

is critical cool and funny words I think you have to think outside of the box a lot of people they try to emulate what some happen in PC or console and do a mobile games so you know it's easier to brand vainglory as the young mobile league of legends you know there's mobile FPS I think a lot of people are thinking that but I know we talked about clash royale people still struggle to categorize what kind of game it is you know it is it hard yeah but no we do agree dunno it's competitive and it has potential bae sports game so i think as a developer or publisher you have to figure outside of the box of if you're building a competitive game I'm not just trying to replicate the PC experience and put it on mobile you have to be creative and think about what you can do with this mobile device to make a game that's fun competitive balance and all the things that we talked about put it okay thank you very much well I think it's time for lunch now so a big event of course please rooms here thank you very much

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