Gamescom Live Special: Creative trends, iOS measurement, Hollywood inspired games, UA channel mix

so I was scrolling Tik Tok and saw they had this this frog saluting um like in the streets of China or somewhere and it it you saw more and more of these videos popping up I said let's make a static Banner on Facebook with just our M protagonist in The UST saluting to her I just throw it out I had 9% CTR in Taiwan amazing I had 40 cents Ina this is no [ __ ] gaming podcast to and a half Gamers sharing actionable insights dropping Knowledge from our day-to-day user acquisition game design and AD monetization jobs we are definitely not discussing the latest industry news but having so much fun let's not forget this is a 400 a.m. conference discussion Vibe so let's not take it too seriously 96 okay what episode is 78th nobody cares going to be special

episode it's going to be special episode hello everyone welcome to two and half Gamers special recording live from Gamescom 2023 it's lovely cologne everyone's super excited to be here episode 76 and we're here at live at our mobile action singular two and a half Gamers party on a rooftop and we have a bunch of guests that we're going to be asking a lot it's actually 77 so7 yes no one likes the grammar nobody cares nobody nobody cares I I said nobody cares it's going to be special episode so we don't have a number we have three special guests with us today and we're starting with a very special guest because we got so many inbound e like messages from uh two episodes ago accusing us of being sponsored by maloa so we have a just fine joining us from yeah exactly like but maybe you just give a brief introduction yourself

first and then you can put this to bed that we're are we sponsored by you or not might be not yet friends are this go do I'm edited right absolutely you have you have I'm doing the old editing so see you need to beave yeah so um thanks for having me this was extremely spontaneous I crashed the party and all sitting here um so I'm Ben uh I'm running the Mia team for moo and Milo is um as you perfectly described two episodes ago um one of the upcoming dsps one of the biggest dsps in the world right now oh of course because you destroy lifto just like that it's nice no no that's fine that's what I said that's what I said that's what I said um what else you want to know why is it such a rocket ship in your own words we have a extremely talented

people oh oh my god oh man yeah so I think um there are I would say uh three other company in the world that had um the talent uh to do machine learning at the level that do it's amaz that is Google okay and that's meta and then there maloko and lot of the the people that are that are building ourl are from those companies and that's why so it's Tech expertise Tech expert okay particularly I I think there's two aspect there's one like machine building machine learning models actually building the infrastructure to support machine learning is is a secret Source okay so doing it cost effectively so and in real my first curious question is cuz I've been in the industry now for seven years and I'm seeing there was was

before liftoff there was life Street and then there was liftoff and they all these days we they have quick Rises but they also have quick Falls yeah is that a risk of maloku and what's happening for you guys to like kind of mitigate that because it's very much in Industry that that happens yeah I I I'm I've been with Milo since November I hope that's so pray for me um I think we we had um just incredible growth sustainably over the the past almost it's now we we're going to celebrate our 10 year anniversary and it's just consistent well but you're like it seems like is the the the overnight success that took 10 years and no but you like your company name started popping up in the discussion in terms of the U like last two years before it like yeah exactly and that's what I mean right like we it

it's a long time in the yeah okay yeah of course we do and models improve and the data there's more data and models continue being impr them inment so I I I I do hope that we only get better because there's a network effect and not yeah um and I I'm very much hope um but I uh I I picked the right are there are there rers in the industry true but the Billy the billion spend the billion and spend this here uh I I no not deny like yeah you can't can't confirm or deny okay nice okay now I think you're doing quite quite a good job because uh when everybody ask me like what Uhl should I add it's like yeah molo because you're quite well in different genres getting paid to say that exactly exactly yeah exactly

no maybe we will afterwards after this yeah oh nice okay we uh should we thank Ben for his W will stint on the podcast Danelle let's let's get our on as well thanks Ben I'll be back with more of the brown envelope let's go yeah of course let's go so we're getting arseni on his uh SE of uh yeah taking all his glasses take the glasses aren they're great of course of course jeez come on nice all right fellas so and you've been described as having the best haircut in the industry multiple times listen fellas if you want to be short and white sometimes you got to CH every your looks remember you I mean yeah I know yeah yeah I got it too so

it's like like at least something can I wear sunglasses it's really should yeah you have to we know the future is too bright we know about the future what are we spelling here what's going on what's going on it's a casting couch yeah what would you like me to do so uh you know first please talk about the company what maybe then you can take up the card no guys uh you know I'm Co at original G names you talked about you you made some false assumptions about we false assumptions yeah because you use I don't want to talk about J yeah of course and then you guys um original games we have a couple merge games merge in and merge them growing games um I just love I I love casual games and that's kind of my thing with about 50 people based in Portugal what else should I say what's a

good metric we have really good retention yeah of course creative creative has not changed for the past 12 months apparently Finly it's doing quite well that's not true we're going to release some new interesting creative that I hope you guys oh yeah we do someing yeah team team try listen to your podcast yeah look at the trains yeah look at the yeah I know I know I know so uh what's working for you guys right now what's not working this is a really good to let's be serious so the thing is guys feel like who creative you got to know like a mullet what with's creative with creative do you never know it's going to work so sometimes like the craziest ideas are the ones that work um so okay for example we did some creative where it's like you know highend 3D un merge in yeah they're it's okay yeah it's okay I mean no money decently spent but it wasn't like it wasn't that the champion that were that we're going for they

didn't pull the needle E I mean it was just okay and it's like uh but I'm thinking can we take that and just tweak it a little bit to make it work so I want to try some crazy stuff and op you hopefully you guys talk about in the future are you going to put the mullet in the ends I mean some someone mentioned we should so we have we have a mouse as our main character someone just said flush it down yeah there this guy right over there we had some Ser man we had some serious brainstorming session with Mario I was like yeah like youing the toilet I like guys if you have a notes for us if that works I'm I'm the best creative manager on the podcast oh yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh you are you are I is like you never know what's going what's going to get people hooked and like that you know I don't know where pimple popping came from but I think it's that was just a thing like that's an old thing that came that's a that's a that's a that's that's a trend no did pimple popping

poing you also your hair is too long coming out yeah up gry it's not like it's not wor God your ads are be the ones I'm going to be banning in my clients give it a try for at least two weeks and we can also discussing the side but seriously it's like it's not it's not that word like taunting anybody it's like what is what it's working what's working what's getting people's attention cuz cuz the ad is just like after that is just showing the game but you know that the idea came from the Dragon capes from s games no no s games s games we look to those guys brilliant what did they do is someone was just pimping doing the po po and pimp do well they implemented it in the game as well it's in the funnel it's in the it's really in the funnel yeah dude but I I think another topic a couple other topics for this year is direct I can't see anything direct direct consumer doing kind of a store I think that's really

interesting and and there's been enough companies that have a success that I'm so interested in that I'm also interested in trying that outside of popping pimple okay maybe launching Chinese versions of our title we already have Chinese um you know localized um oh nice but I but we want to start pushing in China and all of that you need to modify your builds a little bit of course like you know all the Chinese kind of you yeah that just usual think okay you have the fire and D because like we would have a fire we had we you do have the ISBN thing on iOS rid of the IP all ads and ah okay oh so you're going through this thing this this we had we had internal testing on a different portfolio title and it worked no we didn't get banned yet and like oh yeah ni okay they're probably listening now what say all good uh yeah please welcome to play and watch them any watch them end so uh before we send you on the last question any vendors you want to praise

for poo poo listen we can't anyone talk about data se but more in your credit um I like maloko we've had a lot of you know positive and like listen you get a little bit too technical on some of these podcasts I know I I zone out I just you know just go to they have asked me actually next time to bring crayons so yeah give that out for crayons you're going to draw like you know dollar sign like basic multiplication that's very useful okay you had success uh with molo and and I am a big fan of Mis fling I hope this givs me a discount but let's see folks that are folks that are using it you know very pleasantly surprised that that it's worked very well for casual puzzle all right I noral yeah it's okay yeah it's yeah it's okay it's okay it's okay it's okay all right wait wa is there a bonus question there bonus question because like no no no no we heard like a few rumors that you are scaling on app so like what kind of

campaigns are are you using there no I mean okay we haven't started scaling up 11 yet um but I hope to utilize all of them but actually one of the things that we're doing and I'm trying to be sober uh one of the things we're doing is we're doing our own single source of Truth okay kind of in Tableau yeah whatever data App 11 or whatever delivers to um ABS flyer ABS by the way is a good competitor it's a sing singular right a singular party right which is we just still fine we we you know but the point is none of these guys are perfect so we're actually developing kind of in we're factoring a third Source um that can help CPI campaigns kind of work like Ro campaign how does this [ __ ] work I mean because it because it changes it it it has an auto bidder that that bids on some publisher and some on uh netw works on some ad no work exens okay yes you got the like yeah yeah and you're

telling us we're too technical man interested no but okay like this it works yeah it works kind of like automation thing so uh sub publisher bidding is like kind of old school but you know we're all Boomers here yeah but but the point is you might be able to get some benefits from that you know e of Ross campaigns yeah yeah of course no no no so in addition to Ross inition addition to run CPI Automation and then we're going to be trying with with app those guys are pretty cool lard so I want to try with them they're not here so it's fine they're not okay that's okay maybe maybe they're listening but it's like yeah nobody nobody cares that's okay that was fine I like that guy Adam fool he's yeah you listen you getting a discount now yet for fell thank you so much thanks there's a lot of alcohol that I will be consuming yeah yeah let's see so now I think it's time to invite um who Michael B Du the only

person who's been on this podcast twice oh oh of course of course any more people from the play portfolio yeah any more people from the play portfolio it's fine oh Mr I I I have I still have no idea yeah we don't know either it's fine amazing congratulations for your new game launch thank you thank you oh tell us a bit about it uh da show yeah our second second game built in 5 month um how come how come wait yeah how come you build in in five months well we are a genius team what do you think okay thank no Bush answer yeah exactly without the no what is like we we thought ourselves does our first game uh double the revenue within 6 months or can we build the game faster and okay bu fter okay yeah yeah that that was the

well okay nice it help of course that that our lead game is on this um is a huge RAB like he moved re of the house with 500 kilo of manga you know it's 500 kilo manga okay that's my man that's my man in front of this wall and this guy is like crazy he's also like national champions W PR or something so um that that guy was the ideal foot for for the the them so it work really well um plus u Samurai like everyone loves Samurai especially in Asia especially we don't have Wiles no Wiles yet but the main protagonist is female so a little bit of white food there must be um and yeah the biggest Revenue sources are um Taiwan and Korea so oh nice yes okay yeah just keep adding those it is 93 press how do you do oh

how do you do it you have localized everything you just need to undet yeah well of course you need to localize yeah no yeah sorry man stupid question all right you just need to figure out how algorithm great Google loves money and apple loves to sell the hardware and if they love to sell the hardware then they need to provide a good user experience they build good review score 4.8 uh review score on iOS um then they will you know give you more exposure more ranking whatever whatever okay right so that that's all the the magic source is behind it okay all the rest you can read on various AO blocks oh yeah okay so you keep adding more rifles you're saying there's a chance there's a chance of more okay there also a big chance for gladiators for more masculine oh masculine orienting that's a little bit my my my my kind of thing my kind of what's the product do you consider that hybrid say it do you consider that

a hybrid hybrid of what Revenue wise at and iips well 30% of the revenue comes well it depends on which country obviously uh but like 30% of the revenue comes from uh from ads okay more happy um there's some there's some that's that's like not bad but yeah like like I have to say like um um I I heard on the podcast once saying ad Ross is really good if your game has just a little bit of ads and true folks it's true it is yeah it's but it's 100% of head spent back like within a month nice okay very still okay it's interesting CU I found out after I said I said I said that it's like made mistake maybe we need a little bit more but the thing is like it's fine but the things like the scale is limited that's what's the percentage you need to actually start like scaling on that road well depends

on what you want to scale like if if you want to scale like 5 10K per day you need at least like 50% okay I don't like you would not spend it like that right you know half a million yeah yeah exactly it's going to be limited it it always depends obviously like what is it converted what what Etc right um and some companies some bigger compan can get away if they have a very very long tail yeah um they can bit lower and win the impression and stuff like this um so it's not for every game but that's true for every channel yeah that's true yeah yeah if you're more casual you you get away you know on Tik Tok um as a channel if you if you have you know something that is easy me you know rable in your GC content Facebook will do good for you yeah yeah yeah so simple as that okay you explain that to me later it's good like it's like you girls showing already all right ad it to this

game he told right like it's not for everyone it's like not like the ultimate solution that will save your it won't it's just like different game different it might change next week right yeah so of course yeah that's what like a lot of people don't realize it's changing all comes and and so much inventory yeah your F immediately you can just wait you can't compete of course so is there a plan now to make another game in the next six months or that is definitely not the BL I would okay the question is more like what boys Pirates know one as a good pirate game we talked about that a few times oh there's a second beta for the Ubisoft game shut the [ __ ] up guys seriously um no Pirates is not something I I feel very strong about also there yeah me neither but these guys like [ __ ] like I don't know like why they're be fans of pirates so Vikings is like an an evergreen no one hits Vikings but but but let's

see I I freely admit my theme choice is also a little bit uh you know in line with uh what the mood industry is uh pushing outo is coming out Napoleon is coming out in November the Napolean moving oh Renaissance so you're doing a Barbie game open would you know uh pay us the new s maybe it's yeah I I do not believe that they would do yeah it's it's like yeah but like what's the way of thinking like okay so industry moving movie industry like how does that influence the to um the movie you know Russell trow Etc will come out next year or unfort it was delayed because of rer strike and and re-shooting and stuff um and dis with hudu together they will release uh shun the serious Like A Min ser and we all know you know from the chess Etc the Netflix effect so um that will generate a lot of Organics right um

so if if you're fast in development well beat us is that why you actually cu the upcoming like uh really that's super clever actually I play checkers please playing yeah just go Fox you heard it here just go IMDb and search for like next movies next year well that's that's very clever movie right have like already like some sort of Interest uh um that is also already present on the platforms right now and it will be just lifted through these movies ET so at least that's what I've open for you know it's not 2024 yet so that is true yeah it if you work at Netflix please give me your release yeah that would be amazing that would be great man I'm happily enough D Royal to see you okay so 93% Organics any any UA no we do UA kind like for for testing yeah what what what we did what

does that mean released da on the same business model like energy model and as Gladiators and then realized that's not got cut it is not like going anywhere so we re removed the energy completely revamp the economy into you know more inner purchas offer driven and that moved basically like for for Facebook a yeah okay moved it from 60 days to 7 Days uh just in the side yeah so that's of course amazing and now we try to push it up yeah okay um and then see where's thecity um but likewise situational marketing Works super well for us in Asia what does itational marketing is like you scroll Tik Tok and look what is the trend right now so and what where we got like amazing money back honestly um so I was scrolling Tik Tok and saw they had this this frog saluting um like in the streets of China or somewhere and it it you saw more and more of these videos

popping up I said let's make a static Banner on Facebook with just our M protagonist in the illustration saluting to her I just throw it out I had 9% CTR in Taiwan amazing I had 40 cents inst I was like what the what what do we exactly that this is the trend that you always look for a Tik Tok that's a fun in marketing right such things that just makes it oh yeah everywhere right there was this uh guy was talk to very like like 20 minutes ago and it's like I fired the whole UA team I was like because they said like I we are doing everything we can and the numbers were just not happening it's like now I'm running Tik Tok campaigns with dayree Roi 100% because I'm trying different things and I'm trying to look at trends like of course that's how you do you you need like resistance to failure as well right

um out of out of 10 creatives tried yeah eight might fail good might they will they will they they will they will and and the best UA team has exactly it everyone has some sort of biases Etc um it's just you know faith in the team and see if they have like an open mind to generate this and that R Lookers to fire them if need be exactly only I only three people in Market he yeah well that's that's Prett pretty okay that's pretty okay now well I guess you're doing quite wrong we're moving more more into where uh where the classic UA manager is not really needed anymore other than controlling the campaigns um and well creatives yeah you need them but you don't need as many as them you know if you if you have like a 200 people team like let's I don't want to want to want to name and shame lexers for example but they have like people in in in in in their marketing team and then at some

point they had to fire like half of them they buy at 85% efficiency it's like yeah yeah of course yeah oh just ch no I mean I'm not [ __ ] on them you can see it in the in the q1 report that they have public comp all good all good all good and I love a lot of the people of mexas I steal that regular so if you're lening I'm kiding I'm joking of of course we all we are joking nice thanks Manuel great see you next time where's where's Neil Neil right there what is not here but okay come on come on what you want to me what you want to CH Jesus well you know you're an avid listening uh what hold the mic close for you and uh yeah tell us a bit who you

are and what you do I'm Julian I'm directing the markting at vitual and um evangelizing your podcast oh really nice to the degree that it probably sucks for most of the employ ship what can you do guys what can you do I know you also introduce yourself as uh Mr Milburn penny back so like okay okay so now I moved over yeah nice how long you been with B tro for now s years oh nice and what would you say is like the key now to your scale is is uh really in the last two three years is kind of ring these charts where it's actually like people starting to pay attention I guess it's a a certain mix of creatives uh Justus as mat always T creative about the games it's just a creative

everything it starts with the creatives it starts with the Chan Le for try to diversify as match as we can and then of course it's also all great games right that take off the apps and the diesel that be shiage and uh like the best out of it okay so if you if and our games by the way Supremacy 1914 right you should play it they play like Risk online and you play basically over weeks and weeks against other players and rounds oh nice which uh is very special when you play them um check so okay so was the best game you now market and where what's you know what's the what's the secret game Market yeah it's like what's the like yeah like what's bringing the most money into the company of course the US market is always TR but game game game yeah okay that so the top seller is suac in 1914 we also do some public for sister company dado games from Malta

okay we're part of still front group so under the real umbrella or friend something Studios nice I'm working closely together and we do Market Al country vations which a very popular tit big the same nice okay so and where now so us you said about the UA channels CU everybody says like oh well Facebook is tough what you know what other channels we can use so what what are the channel what's what's the channel mix you said these are diversifi the most apparent thing that when we talk about Channel mix is that with all kinds of games that really play very slow slow in a way that you don't see a lot of movement on the map our biggest channel is amongst others Tik Tok we what we my my job is here is done I can leave it's Google and it's also Facebook nice oh we are just in the B and ab is the r

start the these are the he rumors like maloku is like 45% of their DSP inventory I like like yeah yeah we can't we can't go fory question question okay is it different for IOS and Android really from Google of course oh yeah on Android of course okay getting started on Google iOS with scam bidding yeah it's [ __ ] terrible I started last week and it's just like H it's fluctuating like this all the time it's yeah it's it's tough yeah yeah let's see how that goes but yeah it's it's really painful from that so also very strong on iOS but we're a little bit traditionally stronger on the our side scan actually

um and at didn't harm us that much pulling out when we were basic who this guy [ __ ] like talking about what I told everybody like two years ago this is great love it oh seriously you got to be a little bit contrarian on this Market I'm hoping for the same effect it's great yeah I hope so as well like I got to say there's a lot of [ __ ] happening now with the transition to four on strug Facebook pulled Facebook also Tik Tok has seen some struggles yep yeah yeah and I guess it's a sh it's a sh Show it's a rooted app yeah it's a [ __ ] show like everybody's talking about scan 4.0 for like six months and now everybody's like oh well Facebook is moving forward scan for everybody needs to go for like now just wait a little bit and then like oh we need to pull back because we [ __ ] up everybody it's like oh well maybe we need yeah we

need to investigate like how much money we need to refund to everybody he like thank you very much for screwing up like all the campaigns on Facebook for 90% of the advertisers how do you measure the the iOS performance you put on a blindfold and you walk in the woods yeah like Sage operational right it starts with the highest of levels when you look at like how is how is IA doing for a certain game yeah okay that sets the temperature okay when it's looking shitty then like basically other than earlier all the campaigns are under pressure right you're not really yeah yeah sure sure sure sure picking a lot and it's like we have looked at at mmm quite a bit yeah everybody that yeah exactly we do a lot of modeling by the scan that they PR okay so you look at the scan we look at scan my belief is um that the reality and the numbers that you Su today actually don't deviate as much

from back in theast everything no yeah of course yeah you were only getting snapshots anyway you were basically still left in the dark just the suggestion was a different one that you had a better feeling right and so the same is still true today that's why I don't think it's it's the biggest of issues I'm more concerned about how the platforms can optimize this yeah exactly not or whatever yeah you just just look away different than uh in uh yeah if you can can't get like enough events in the first day that you're basically [ __ ] exactly exactly and so I think a lot of um a lot of influence is is is to be a lot of focus is to be given on the upper funnel part where you can optimize as best as you can yeah um and then play the platforms can can you unpack that a little bit if you you like play the platforms like what does that mean for so there's like two or three things I think that stand out so basically for us

what works on Tik Tok basically yeah is also working somewhere else but the opposite is not true nice okay interesting though um and then it's what we try to go is T as many different creative variations um oh Creative Concepts as possible okay and once you find it you create just go horizontal scale as much as possible yeah everywhere right okay okay and then we do have our map based games so that has kind of an edge when it comes to IP on that better Clos yeah sure now where you can um just did you that yeah of yeah am good thousands listening maybe may maybe maybe we'll see where all kinds of games that you play on the map have a certain advantage that you can basically tailor every ad

uh according to the Target evence right if I want to run a Check ad yeah I'll put some check people or some check Ai and they talk about how Poland invades Czech Republic happens there it's it's very masculine concept very masculine can you can wait it's also SL get yeah bow he B jar finally B is getting the don't destroy po res us I I will say you got to be careful we we do have a history with all s uh missteps in that regard okay exp yeah I know I know now in terms of like using AI for these type of things it's ah it's amazing it's just like improves improves the the creative workflow so much so so much I will also spill the beans on and that one from the tell me masculine game also female feet work quite well oh yeah

of course yeah yeah yeah yeah who said that yeah out yeah like what what exactly is it I that just so good okay nice should we wrap up no we can we can go drink finally drink yeah yes S I come here and take us home or sure yeah want to come in couple questions sure come on all right here T what's happening we need that seat buddy I know hey that's you love so you the blue hair yeah know blue hair no I do no uh hi hi I'm I'm I'm Daniel

uh like I'm from Ukraine go B Elizabeth uh yeah speak po we don't realiz F uh yes I'm uh I'm like representing design people today here I guess finally my people like this you know take it away yeah I'm like uh CPO at Al thoughts and we make it idle games uh I don't know if it was close enough um so yeah if uh if we can talk about idle games ads what do you think about the latest in idle games where we see like lot of games adding kind of mini games into the core and like more engagement like that's been lately doing like I'm talking like golden goblins and stuff where like we see definitely like people are going after engagement because they add mini games into it so how how how how that works for are we going to the direction uh we like want to try uh I

assume the all idea is to you know have have longer sessions and have meaningful stuff where the timers run yeah timers run then you you do something then you watching as something uh so that work and also like the Slime had like some different mini games in it as well I think it's a it's a good direction to to to try out we we didn't not personally try that out we pursue some like more at heavy monetization uh techniques I was saying uh like after the slide we also like um tried out thingy where your income is increased Bas of the amount of bets that was your favorite yeah yeah it's very very good yeah works we before that we would have like the main game orality working on this like that shelter it's about cats and we had like cat costumes there uh so uh we Tred

I awarding players with costumes for uh specific mod of AD watches of specific like a r type yeah that that's what well but it like worked for you know for the collectors or M kind of people so would you say your game improved uh yeah that's good and what what are you what are you kind of where's your direction that the features you have in like on your table currently yeah I think uh there there's like one big problem that most of the ID games I think are trying to beat is the reset problem uh no actually it's not a problem for us at all really where do you think reset is a problem I mean the inflation like overall kind of you know yeah that as well but um we think it I have no [ __ ] idea what they're talking about there you go go for yeah I know I know s like that's great that's great uh yeah uh I I think the the main problem is like longterm monetization I guess and like

long-term retention because like when uh Idol games tend to return uh like I spend basically pretty fast so most of the LTV comes in the first few days and I how to long long days okay I think that's the issue everyone is trying to of course yeah you know to battle and hopefully we'll wait first but know so are there any interesting progressions that again you're looking for to kind of do this like do you have anything else in mind maybe maybe because for me like with idle games this was always the biggest problem like how to keep the permanency in the economy because you know like when just numbers increase at some point it stop being fun because you gilian whatever and and then you need to reset like somehow manage the numbers and then you need to start over and then yeah I just think it's not uh like first it's content but content is also something that people will be um bored of and then it's like features probably you need to I mean liveops or features features features features introduced later on like on should more power

layers like SL proba power power layers yeah because like what happened with uh like light out survival it's you know idal game Power ler a game Power layer what is the power power layer power layer is a layer of of layer power doing doing 100 damage 50 of the damage comes from your weapon the other 50 comes from your amulet or artifact or whatever and you add more and more stuff into your inventory and those are power comes yeah exactly Mr P we are still so just add more stuff and that's it yeah hopefully that's that's my idea and do do you do you still go by that usual rule that like you drag the bo to the main progression which kind of stops at some point or let's say stops being rewarding and then you add another progression that resets through like live Ops event or like usual the the loops continues with the same core game play just different team different you know lot events first like we on like Idol in which is like a title we

released like two two three years ago uh we try doing a lot of liveops content which is kind of different it's still like like horror gameplay of Idol but add uh like additional layers on to by the way one one one very tricky question because I get this all the time do you think liveops increases retention or monetization sometimes I feel like it should increase BS but sometimes you try it and it it just doesn't work well so heading because for me I always always kind of thought of it as some kind of a possibility for Revenue spikes because if the game mation now yeah there's monetization like you don't really increase rotation with liveops is the game [ __ ] you can slam as much liveop side as possible yeah [ __ ] you losing like most of the players you're just amplifying you know the the the users that already playing in like they're dishing for their fun so they're you know monetized much better so we're being closeing cl to close down really they want Clos now the I'm having all the fun no don't worry don't worry it's

fine out yeah but yeah just like know for me the whole genre like where it went through all the like evolution of going to like very very easy like Adventure communist sorry Adventure capitalist then stuff like Trail Park Boys which implemented gacha into it that pretty much turned the multipliers into gacha and then you have the whole like you know the whole deck of all the multipliers you need to have all of them upgrade all of them that's really really smart and then you have mini games that into it like the golden goblins did and then you like all these other things being pretty much slammed in like I know there's like finally let's say kri probably found their kind of secret thing and there's some new thing in their portfolio that maybe we look into the maybe maybe yeah so so I'm really looking forward how the genre Evol because it's evolving very very nice it's like different iterations like one on top of each other and you can see the like lineage of like all the games let know fun uh like Idol games are fun because like there's it's it's a smaller

Niche I guess and there's still much to change basically there's still much to improve it's fun try it out yeah oh yeah try it out different features different approaches to even offers yeah offers definitely see all those stuff you already sleeping no no no just list no no just listening no no I'm just listening voice for a while no no no I think Remo took it away but we been go for the long I I think I think we're okay yeah we're good thanks for coming yeah thank you very much take us home take us me come on [ __ ] okay least you've ever spoken on the podcast no it's not show it's not true okay guys so uh thank you very for listening uh please subscribe definitely if you have any comments feedback put it in the comments in the in the YouTube section join our slack Channel join our slack Channel Chan yeah and then see you next time CIA ciao CIA

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