Direct-to-consumer banks $17 billion and Google rolls out fee changes | Week in Mobile Games podcast

[music] Hello, welcome to the pocket gamer.biz podcast week in mobile games where we chat about the week's news and hopefully provide some insights of Craig Chapel, head of content at pocket gamer.biz. With me today is our deputy editor, Paige Cook, and our features and data editor, Aaron Assel. How you both doing? What you been up to?
Melting. Melting in this sun is the main thing. is absolutely dying in this heat. For people that don't know, the heat wave across Europe is very intense. It's like it's weird. It's like I don't know even today technically is only like 31° C, but it's because of the humidity. It's it feels like of like 40° it's been quite dangerous.
Yeah. Like I've been in countries that are a lot hotter, but I've suffered less than what I'm suffering now. So like I know we always sound like we're complaining like, "Oh, I'll get over it." But it really does feel like different here. The humidity is awful.

But yeah, other than suffering in the heat, I I don't think I've been on the podcast since I started my driving. So, I've been doing some driving lessons, which is fun, but also terrifying cuz you're kind of just like given this car and then you're like, "Yeah, drive it." Like, "Yeah, sure. You just do that. Just be in charge of this machine that you don't really know how to handle, but yeah, just go for it." So, it's like exciting, but at the same time, I have these little moments where I'm like, "This is such a strange experience." That's really cool that you're doing that. Is there any like assisted kind of like driving like automatic car or is it just old school standard?
Yeah, I'm driving in a manual, but I'm not going to lie, I'm a little bit tempted to switch to an automatic. Like the gears are fine. They're actually not as bad as I thought because it does sort of get more normal. But I guess because of everything else that's going on, there's so much you're processing at once and in my head I'm like, it would be nice to have one less thing to worry about. And now that I'm driving, my partner, who has never shown an interest in driving, is now like, I'd like to do that at some point, but she will only do an automatic. She has said this for a long time. So now I'm like, well, what's

the point of me going to all the drama of learning a manual if in a couple of years you want to get an automatic car? We only need one. So yeah, we'll we'll see if I I switch. But yeah, it's it's it's fun, but a little bit scary.
Well, at least if you learn manual, you can do whatever if you All right. Awesome. Thanks, Paige. and also good luck with your with your lessons and with ultimately with the tests.
Yeah, I'm sure I'll keep you posted.
Yeah, good luck.
And Aaron, what you been up to?
Yeah, similarly just trying to survive the heat, but yeah, other than weather related talk. So, I've been I've been getting a bit more back into Pokémon Champions. Obviously, last week we talked about the mobile release which brought a bunch of new Pokemon to the game as well and sort of started season three of the kind of, you know, competition, whatever you would call it. So, cuz I got quite invested in like season 1 and wanted to get up to the Master Ball tier, which I did, and then kind of took a break during season two.

It's like, you know, I've done it now. I don't need to worry anymore. You know, it resets everything anyway. So, I was like, I don't want to go through the like stress of trying to get into like Master Ball every time, you know, I've done what I set out to do anyway. And then, so like season 3 started, it's on mobile. There's new Pokémon. So, that kind of got me back into a into it a little bit and I built like a new team. So, I wanted to try out some of the new Pokémon that have been added and stuff. And then like the team was sort of starting to come together and do quite well. And I kind of got up into like ultra ball rank because obviously the ranks kind of follow how good you know the Poké Balls are. So it's like well I'm only one away from Master Ball again. I wonder if I can get this new team into Master Ball. So I've spent the past week kind of doing that and have like yesterday I got into Master Ball again. So I'm quite pleased with that. And anyway, obviously now we got it on mobile as well and currently I'm at about 60,000. So, um,

who knows? This may be, yeah, the very sort of gradual progression in my like esports journey. You know, check back in in a few years. Maybe I'll be kind of up in the top ranks. Yeah. So, we've been having quite a bit of fun with that.
You're going to do a story this week that they at the first week of Pokémon Champions on mobile.
Yes. It's 3.5 million on mobile that it's made in a week, which is more than I was expecting. Yeah. Yeah,
I I think it'll do really well. You're not so sure in terms of if it will be better. Sorry. If if it will be more successful than Pokemon trading card game, you know, I I'm quite I think it'll do well. I think it has the right mix of nostalgia and something fresh. It's exactly the kind of Pokemon game that people would like to play other than Pokémon Go.
Yeah. Yeah. We'll see what happens.
All right. Thanks a lot, Eric. as for myself. I see the the thing I actually just wanted to use my time I guess to talk about was Starcraft 2 cuz I have to

talk about it. So, um I I might have mentioned a few weeks ago they it's just really interesting that this game I think it's like 15 16 years old. The last expansion which called Legacy of the Voids a story expansion came out like 10 years ago. It's no long it wasn't in the esports world cup this year and I think that is down to we did an interview with the chief games officer for the esports world cup foundation and they were like you know one of the ways that they choose which games they have is one views and two it's basically like publisher support and to me it kind of sounded a bit like publishers have to probably front up a bit to be part of the ecosystem there. Anyway, all that said so massive patch has gone live and it's like the biggest update in 10 years. So, Starcraft 2 has like made it back into headlines somehow. Curious how it goes. Really quite dramatic changes. I won't go into all the details, but people are very concerned for a couple things. So, with an old game like this, that's basically kind of on life support, but Blizzard

keeps it going. And like they do like other companies do with say an Age of Empires 2, which is still very popular, maybe even more popular in Age of Empires 4. They they did this 3 weeks tests where they basically just broke on a a PTR so a test server like it which is pretty standard for games and then they they put these crazy update like updates to test which is great and I think the community was like cool that's fine even if they didn't necessarily agree with the updates just like it's worth testing crazy stuff especially an old game can be fun could be good changes but then like there were so many bugs in it that it was just basically broken so you couldn't actually test certain things and also So if you make so many changes, you can't test how certain changes actually affects the game because there's so many at the same time. So it's just really it for people out there that are like balancing their games. It's it's something like you might want to just look into. And after 3 weeks, they suddenly like said, "Oh, okay, we fixed this stuff. Now we're going to do this some other crazy changes." And then like two days later,

I think that was like within two days or something. That's like a hot fix for that. And then they just put the whole thing live and the some professional players very unhappy. Some say they like lead the game. Some of the biggest YouTubers, Twitch streamers, which is really what keeps the game alive. They run tournaments and the videos get not those but like tens of thousands of views like every every video. They're saying they some I think some are saying they might just create a mod that runs on the old patch. And in 16 years, I don't think this has ever happened. like people have been unhappy with stuff but this is very very unhappy because and some professionals are like well what's the point in me having to relearn this I'm just going to leave do something else so very big controversy there but really interesting case study and the game might now not be updated for another 10 8 10 months cuz Blizzard does this and then leaves the game entirely at the last esports world cup there was a major in-game bug that they didn't intend but they didn't fix it for about 8 10 months so no one's In theory, no one is coming back to fix

if it's broken. I spent too long, but really interested.
That's crazy. That's crazy. They could just leave. I mean, I understand there's some small bugs, but leaving if there's something like a major bug in the game and then just being like, well, just have to deal with that for the next 10 months.
It's like I when I say major bug, I mean it was it was a certain unit in the game that could do something that wasn't supposed to be there. So, at the very top professional level, it was very frustrating for people. That's what I mean. I don't mean like you can't complete a level or something just to clarify. But yeah, it it is still crazy especially for any sports World Cup game.
But yeah, these these these are much much much we'll hop into things. So a quick shout out for our event. So we just did pocket gamer connect Barcelona. Thank you for everyone that came. So that was a great show. We had over a thousand attendees. I think 1100 attendees. So that was that was really great. And of course we'll be back again next year. Coming up next, we've got Pocket Gamer Connect Summit Shanghai July 29th, which just before China join. So hopefully see some people

there if you're heading to to Asia. And we've got Pocket Gamer Connect Nordics in Helsinki on October 20th to 21st, which will be great. We're trying to expand it a bit more to represent kind of the whole region, not just the Finnish games industry. And then we've got other things going on. We've got the mobile games awards in August. I think voting is either open or about to start for that by the time you hear this. Uh we got we're going to Bangkok with PGC summit at Jordan and Grand Canary as well later this year. So yeah, thank you guy. Right, jump into the news. So I talk too much about direct to consumer these days, but this there was a a really interesting report for direct consumer. It was from app charge in partnership with GDC. And the headline figure is direct consumer monetization has now grown to a $17 billion market that accounts for around 15% of the global of the global market which news says is worth 113.3 billion in inapp purchases. Now just to quickly go into

the methodology it's based on a survey of more than 1,200 professional games developers conducted between January and February 2026. But while,200 professionals were surveyed, the report notes that the analysis focuses on responses from 281 respondents. Among the respondents, 130 were responsible for mobile game strategy and development and 11% had direct involvement in mobile games. I actually think 11% might be from the,200 makes more sense. And the 17 billion, where does that come from? It's the headline figure is derived from a 15% median average of the percentage revenue that comes with DT as per the survey and as I said against MU's latest 2025 mobile game spending estimates which is apps on Google Play and I think maybe some China stores. So interesting figure how they got there. Also interesting I spoke with and coming soon we'll have a podcast video interview with Appchar chief marketing officer Gil

Todley and he said I asked him you know how reasonable I guess is that is that figure are you happy with that and how you got there and he says and of course he would say this because that charges a big payments he thinks they're like underestimating what the DTC market is worth and part of the survey was also I think clients that they work with and then he said Some companies are making like 60 70% I think you might have even said 80% like DTOC share very substantial as you gone into previously player is closing in on a $1.2 $2 million annual run rate still front makes 44% of it revenue in DTC I think play 39 and monetize group it's high so maybe I think it's just interesting that we have a figure because if you think about it we don't actually know what the mobile games industry is actually worth even when sens tower usually put these estimates out we don't know what DTC is worth this and what what Gil said was it kind of just starts a conversation about it and I know sens to working on how to

do estimates basically by using like a panel of users but yeah we don't know what like ads are worth for example we have very little visibility a lot of things going on in China and increasingly we have little visibility on whether they're successful but on other third party stores or web games etc. So it's we don't we just don't know really what the mobile games industry is worth and how sharp sharp the declines or growth are anymore other than how people feel and then they say it's very tough that user acquisition get market. All right. So uh so very quick stats. So the report found 92% of publishers expect their DTC revenues to grow this year with 41% forecasting double digit growth and 80% 18% anticipating gains of 30% or more across all respondents. DTOC generated a medium revenue uplift of 15% rising to 35% among leading players. While DTC is increasingly viewed as a major growth opportunity, 62% of publishers said they consider themselves

behind their peers while only 14% describe themselves as innovators. Just 25% said their DTC efforts are scaling or mature. Yeah, a lot of really interesting stuff. Check out the interview coming soon uh with Gil where we kind of dive into some of those numbers and general thoughts on DTOC and whether it actually grows the industry or or it just it's just another way it's just squeezing more money out of the audience that you already have increasingly profit profitability etc. But yeah really cool numbers to see right Aaron what have you got? Yeah. So, my first story today is about a new Hoyverse game, uh, which I didn't actually know exist or existed. Apparently, it was announced a little while ago, but we now have some more details. So, this is Hongai Nexus Anima. So, it's the next Hankai game. Obviously, we've had like Hongai Impact Third and Hongai Star Rail. And yeah, this next game is apparently very close to a closed beta test. So fans can

currently of register online for a chance to be chosen for the beta and then it will actually start on the 9th of July. So apparently the game's expected to like introduce new characters, regions, gameplay systems. It's been described as a creature collecting adventure strategy game in the Hongai series. So from the looks of it, there's kind of different what they've referred to as nexus. So there's kind of pairings like light and dark or reality and illusion. And then I think are like kind of embodiment of this. Um they're kind of creatures that you'll be able to befriend. So kind of animallike. There's like a a feline creature called like umpireella or pella. And then there's a like raccoon creature called shampoo, I guess. Yeah, creature collector type thing. And then it looks like you can kind of take photos with them and stuff and use them in battling and things. So yeah, I guess we'll probably know a bit more after the beta.

People can like register for it until the 3rd of July. some technical specs because they've revealed them like on mobile devices need at least 15 GB of storage and 6 gig of RAM to be like eligible and running Android 6 or iOS 15 or higher there. So Hoyver have also already confirmed that progress for those who participate won't carry forward to the full release. So yeah, I'll be curious as to kind of how how far along things are, if they're doing a beta test now, whether this will be kind of coming out in the next few months or whether we're kind of further away still. It's quite interesting to me that it's that they're going in like the creature collecting route with this one rather than just kind of it makes sense, but rather than just kind of Hankai Star Rail but new, you know, it's kind of doing its own thing, I'd imagine. So I think Honka Star Rails estimated to have made over 2 and a half billion on mobile

like 3 years and it it still does very well kind of up there with Genchin Impact in kind of monthly kind of ga performance then in that genre. So I'd imagine they kind of don't want to totally cannibalize things even though this is a you know a a sequel in a sense or at least you know a new title in the same series. Apparently, there will be some returning characters as well from other Hongkey games, but also a lot of new characters. And yeah, just largely I I was surprised seeing that this closed beta is coming up that yeah, like I haven't heard about this game existing, but apparently it was like last year it got announced. It feels like it's flown under the radar. So, like I did not hear anything about that at the time. I I'm just curious because I think all how does because I think all of the Mihoyo games have like been successful but there's like declining returns in each one. So Gat amazing conquest still multi-billion dollar game. Zela Stone Zero don't have insights into other platforms and China probably billion

dollar plus maybe still multi-billion dollar game don't know but like it's still declining. So curious if the Pokemon formula is what kind of brings them back.
Yeah. and whether the kind of Hongkey branding gives it an edge over Zone Zero as well.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Uh, thanks to Eric Pace you got.
Yeah. So, mine is also about a game that's coming up. Bit of a weird one though, but I I had to talk about this one because I absolutely love the TV show The Traitors. If you haven't seen it, you should watch it. It's It's very good sort of game showy little bit reality TV type thing, I guess. But there's a new officially licensed game coming called The Traitors Anywhere. It's launching across the UK and Ireland next year. But the weird part is it's not like a traditional game in the sense of, you know, downloading it on your phone on an app. It's all going to be done through WhatsApp. So there'll be no extra downloads. There's no, like I said, there's no individual dedicated app towards it. It's just all in WhatsApp. It supports up to 30 players.

This is the part that confuses me a bit. Like bold of you to assume I have 30 friends. I do not. But yeah, so the idea is that instead of sort of sitting down and playing for a short session or you know even sitting down playing an hour and then it's done the whole thing unfolds over essentially a week. So players in the WhatsApp chat assigned roles. So you'll have you know your traitors, your faithfuls the same as it is in the TV show. They'll get things like missions and then I think each evening they do again similar to the show they'll do like a roundt discussion. They'll do banishments. So yeah, very in line with what you would expect from the traitor, kind of mimicking the show there. Um, I think it's quite a cool idea to have it play out over a week. I guess with it being on WhatsApp as well, it means that throughout the week, not only have you got your little things that you're supposed to be doing, but obviously it just means that you'll all be talking and sort of interacting the same way you do in the show. Obviously, you know, some people get close and there's lots of speculation, there's lots of, oh, you know, oh, that person used that emoji,

what does that mean? So, I feel like it is quite an interesting idea to have it span over like a longer period of time. You know, perhaps it, you know, will make people look forward to playing it. It gives them something to do each day. I am curious how things like missions work though because obviously in the show each day they kind of have a challenge. They go out and do this challenge and during that sometimes they'll be like, "Oh, that was, you know, that person did traitor behavior or something." Not sure how that's going to work through WhatsApp. So, I guess we'll have to see how that actually pans out. Well, I I feel like the whole thing in general, I like the idea. The concept is quite interesting. Not 100% sure how it works in practice, you know, and the traitor is huge. So, it is interesting that they've gone down this route of, you know, rather than maybe making a dedicated app, they've just put something in an existing like chat app. I suppose like the worry is is even if it is quite fun, is it the kind of thing you'd do more than once? Like if I managed to pull a group of people together like, "Oh, let's do this traitor thing cuz it's come out." maybe we'd do it for a week and be like, "Yeah, that was this thing that we did one time. Not sure if it's something

you'd do again." But yeah, interesting concept. And yeah, I feel like yeah, there's still some bits I'm not quite sure on. Like like I said, like with me, I I don't have 30 people to play that with. 30 people that are familiar with each other at least that would all want to play it. So yeah, might have to go make some more friends. I think
I'm also not sure like I was just reading like you they're marketing it as, you know, play with your colleagues and stuff. like that is going to cause arguments. People are not going to be happy with each other, but really interesting concept. Yeah, like you said, not not sure about the legs of it, but I think it's a very cool idea. Thanks to that page. So, other news this week, Google's changes to the Google Play Store and their revenue share. This was already announced. It came from the Google and Epic Games deal, but now they're basically saying it is going to launch soon. So the new the new fees will start from June 30th beginning with the United States European Economic Area and United Kingdom. By the way, I find

that interesting that they say United States cuz I'm pretty sure that is not settled in the US. So this came about after there is an injunction against Google in the US and then this deal was with Epic was made and then they propose it to the judge who seemed very unhappy with this deal. So can they are they allowed to just roll it out? curious what is what is going on there and then ultimately if that even stays at least in the US anyway so there is for for up to your first million dollars there is a 10% platform fee basically that they've created and that is on new installs and on on existing installs there's a billing fee as well for for payments then for everyone else there is the 20% platform fee plus the 5% billing fee if you use Google Play if you don't it's still 20% and by the way for subscription options. It's 10% for renewals. I think it used to be 15% and they might have lowered it to 12.5, but that's also interesting. There is the level Google level up program which has guidelines which I find really

interesting. It's like optimizing and using like achievements etc. They're basically to get a better revenue share. They're kind of forcing publishers to use these guidelines. You don't have to and you also have to be accepted onto the program once you apply. But that seems that I get it. I guess it's their platform. They can do that. It kind of seems a bit shady after all this stuff. It's like, okay, fine. But you have to use all that stuff, do all this. I wonder if there's consequences in future for if you leave the game on there. It's no longer very optimized for all devices or certain devices. You you are no longer part of the game's level up program. So, you have to pay more money, which would be a real shame for smaller developers. So, for up to your first million, it's 10%. And then if you qualify for the level up experience for auto rescriptions again 10% but for other transactions or new installs it's a 15% fee which is down from 20%. And it can also be 15% of existing installs but if you use Google play it's the extra 5% to show Google pay to 20.

So I I spoke to people about it spect and there's people are not very happy with the with the deal that Epic struck with Google. There's com interesting comment from Joseph Kim on on game makers and he said which I actually thought was quite interesting that we don't we can't dunk on like Tim Sweeney and Epic for getting this because ultimately they've had to spend and lost billions of dollars in my opinion probably lost billions of dollars to get to this point which didn't exist beforehand. So there is obviously a lot of credit to go to Epic and I think myself included to be blade like that gets a bit lost but it is also very different from the in the Google Play case from what the injunction was to what this deal is at least for GL anyway. So release dates for each market. I said uh the was earlier but September 30th this is the expanded billing choice changes to service fees. September 30th for Australia, December 31st for Japan and Korea and then September 30th 2027 for the rest of the

world. And then the level up the level up stuff isn't actually applicable right now, but that starts from September 30th for select regions including Australia, EA, UK, and US. So anyway, big big news, lots of change. Maybe it'll change again. Who knows anymore whether regulators are like no, no, thank you. And again, in the US, the judge might be absolutely not. So it it just go on and on forever. Right. Aaron, what else have you got?
Yeah. So my other story this week is about an interview I did on the Monopoly Go chat app, which is dedicated social companion app, obviously for Monopoly Go. So I spoke with Scopely senior director of product management Michael Angrasani to kind of find out a bit more about like what the app is, its purpose, it kind of what they've learned so far and through testing it and things. So it originally launched in France last October as like a limited regional test

and then rolled out globally in March this year. So it's kind of about 3 months in now and apparently it is seeing quite a lot of use particularly during kind of Monopoly goes like cooperate event cooperative events people are using it to like coordinate and strategize in the chat app to then kind of have an impact on how they're playing in the main game. So apparently there have been 25 million messages sent through the chat app and there's more than 6 and a half million groups there so far. So to Angusani this has kind of reinforced that there was a demand for a dedicated communication method. People have long used like Discord for Monopoly Go and so I interviewed them before about their pet season and how important Discord was there. Uh, so apparently now they're kind of viewing it as Discord being useful for kind of broader community conversations and then the

Monopoly Go chat app is more about yeah kind of strategizing with teammates and talking with kind of friends from the game and things um in kind of a connected app but also without just clogging up Monopoly Go itself by you know making this a feature within the game itself. So yeah, they've said by keeping Monopoly Go Chat separate, we're able to invest in best-in-class communication features while respecting the experience of players who prefer to simply enjoy the game on their own, which I guess makes sense that yeah, not to kind of bog things down with like too many features in the main game. I guess it is like a casual game, but yeah, you've got this app there that apparently there is there are ways kind of from within the game. They said it's like natural touch points to help players kind of find Monopoly Go chat and access it from within the game, but it isn't part of the game. And they're also planning to make make things even more seamless between the two. I asked

as well whether like Scoply does or plans to like communicate with players through the chat app which they said they don't currently do but they're kind of open to exploring things because again they use Discord quite a lot for I think like polling and yeah interacting with fans. So yeah, I guess we'll see whether they start to do that for people who have downloaded Go Chat. And yeah, it was quite an interesting interview like I think particularly cuz it's it's kind of strange to have a mobile game that has its own like messaging service again when people have Discord or WhatsApp or whatever. And yeah, it seems like like Scopely does expect people to carry on using those. But I say they've had like 25 million messages through this Go Chat system so far. like it seems like people are actually using it where it's relevant and kind of contextual to in-game events. So, I guess we'll see what kind of impact it has, whether whether this starts a trend of like loads of games doing things like

this. I guess it's it's a little bit reminiscent of like is it Campfire that was kind of tied to Pokemon Go for organizing things. But yeah, other than that, I think this is quite a kind of a neat a unique case of yeah, just something a little bit weird and different that seems to be working.
Face that Paige, what else have you got?
So, my next story is actually two stories in one, but they're both about layoffs. So, this week we've had two stories on the site. One was EA. So they reportedly had carried out another round of cuts that were affecting multiple teams across like different departments. So recruitment, customer support, trust and safety and IT are supposed to be impacted by it. It was also suggested that the cuts had impacted the US and India but we just don't know how many layoffs has actually been. They said that, you know, obviously we hear quite a lot when these types of things happen that, you know, the changes were parts of efforts to adapt their operations,

but obviously this also follows earlier cuts a little bit earlier in the year where obviously they laid off a few people over their battlefield development teams. So yeah, more more cuts at EA. And then the second story was Kabam. So they had confirmed plans to consolidate its LA office which has then resulted in a unknown amount of layoffs. Similar again studio just said that it's to do with you know streamlining operations and just a general review of like their strategic priorities. Obviously Kabams are best known for maybe Marvel Contest of Champions. It sort of makes me wonder if that's part of the thing. Like that game's done well but maybe they're struggling to do things outside of that game. But yeah, in general, like layoffs are never good to have to talk about. But it's just, yeah, it's an odd one because it feels like we're at a point where, you know, in the industry at the moment, I feel like we see like some signs of like there being recovery in areas and then all of a sudden something like this happens. So, you know, even

though some places it feels like, okay, like it's getting better there, there'll still be these, you know, whether it's smaller layoffs, but then other times we're seeing, you know, still huge widespread layoffs. And you know, it wouldn't surprise me if obviously there's still more coming as well. So yeah, it still just feels like it's a little bit never ending. But obviously, you know, good luck to anyone that has been, you know, affected by it. Hopefully something else comes along, but yeah, just two this week in very short succession. I think the I think we reported on these within a day of each other.
Yeah, it it's it's depressing. It does feel like I think there might be data on it. It's just thought it was slowing down. Seems to be kind of picking up again. this whole wave of industry layout and also upcoming possibly at the start of July. So maybe next week just the big cuts at Xbox is is the next big thing. Don't know in what form or even the entire business if they get spun out or whatever. Apparently those conversations are are ongoing or going

on but we know that there's going to be possible studio closures and just tremendous amount of layoffs. So bad a really bad time and that'll possibly be on the next week's show unfortunately if if it does indeed happen before then. Right on that note, thank you everyone for tuning in another another episode of the week in mobile games and thank you Paige and Aaron for your insights today especially during the heat.
Yeah, good to be here. Ready to get the fan back on though. Turned it off for the podcast just in case. So I'm going to go sit in front of it for like 2 minutes. I I I said around the start of the show. I was I'm not telling you. I I did it for my I did it for a video interview yesterday and then within 10 minutes I was like I could just see myself glisting. I was like no no this is embarrassing now. Turn that fan on. I don't care about the balls. Great. So yeah, thanks thanks everyone for tuning in and have a good weekend. If you're in Europe, the UK, stay safe and we'll catch you on the next one. Goodbye.