Concord and AAA games Failure to Launch | 353

[Music] welcome to another episode of Game Dev Chang the no one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof I am your host Brandon fam and with me you know it you're waiting for it you've been asking for it R Grand how you doing Ray you absolutely have not been asking for it um but what's up what's up I'm here here he's just being modest guys I know every month as you are looking at the end of the month and looking at your calendar you're seeing all these crazy game news that just don't make sense and you're just looking for your best two people to talk about it well here it is all right this is your Round Table news [Music] episode all right let's jump right into it Concord oh wow so Concord uh a little history so uh

they were uh you know probably monster had like this massive um publishing deal right they they were a studio made up of like X buuny dudes right and they uh basically from the ground up develop three studios in one type of thing right public monster is kind of like the top tier and they had three different Studios making three different games that is like the way to do things especially in the pandemic Co freefor all money everywhere type of thing right every share common share common resources right like share HR and finance and all that kind of stuff right right right right yeah never mind that it's hard making one game [ __ ] it let's make three right uh so but eventually you know there were some issues or whatever the rumor meal but like firewalk was had a publishing deal with Sony Sony outright just bought it uh bought the studios bought the IP continued to develop it

even before uh pre-announcing right so everybody was think must I didn't even know that that's I know all type of [ __ ] right and there was like and so everyone was thinking at least in the room Mill was like oh it must be super dope you know PlayStation at the top of the game buying another Studios outright right um you know with that isn't Jade rayan right it's like it's like it was still pretty rare so like firewalk finally announced concour and it was DOA right uh dude yeah it is man they had a beta test a few weeks ago and uh 400 concurrent players and like people were talking about like man the player roster looks like trash I still think it does like the character design is crap dude hey really the internet AG Grease the internet agree the game playay itself maybe you and the internet is dumb but but well the fact of the matter

is no matter how it looks it comes down to the game play and the game play was just already going to a bloated Market which is herob based Shooters right and I would say this is probably the tell end of the herob base Shooters just too many right but it didn't deliver anything incredibly unique to really separate itself right it probably had a few good things like they were used to but nothing that really screamed out like play this right uh and that was most of the complaint aside from the aesthetic who cares right it could be just like you and I know it could be just unreal mannequins walking around as long as it's good people are forgiving right in terms of art aesthetic let's look at basically any game in unreal fortnite uh so ufn right people don't care about art as much but it didn't help like uh on top of just bad gameplay right so this I was just watching this going on

they haven't released it yet mark my words it will uh you know just judging by the lack of hype train lack of Interest the beta players that were playing in there was yeah it's cool but there's nothing new right and they're charging they're charging 40 bucks for it it's like these games are free and there are better options out there yeah right and that's a whole different matter I think think the whole idea of free to play you know killed any incentive but like people don't pay and support unless it's a small Indie Dev if it's Indie Dev charging $40 people are a lot more forgiving I want to support this team right but this is kind of like a AAA game charging 40 bucks right maybe double A just I don't know what the team size is but I'm assuming it's a AAA type of budget game U maybe not top tier Uncharted or whatever right never i' hear in a million years somebody say a triaa game does not deserve to get paid

no I think that's the first time ever in history I think I think that we should return to that I think freetop playay games and those type of like models are killing the industry I hate it right and I think you know who else you know who else thinks that who thinks that the dev Z firewor yeah but like I think it's because you know triaa games um develop gamers are a lot savvier than usual they know right away from day one of his Triple A over a small team right that's part of the news that's part of the roll out and it being tripa game it's more scrutinized right I was like you had all this infinite resource and this is the best you could make right um so that's that's the background before I give any deeper thoughts throw it back to you what you see deep deep deep disclaimer I have not played it yeah um but but I I did most people playing it during the

close beta I've seen some streamers playing it and influencers and stuff and some of them had like some interesting takes on it yeah um some of them had the same take like another hero shooter I look at it I say oh Another Hero shooter like yeah like no thanks sir yeah um but I have no idea how the different characters play and and what they bring to the gameplay so I can't really judge gameplay too tough I think the the number um people were saying the numbers were kind of low during the beta but it wasn't it wasn't 400 it was more like 40,000 was the numbers I was seeing like a peak right um at Peak it died down really quickly though like after um so you know with all that said right like yeah maybe another hero based shooter and what you said about the characters is kind of interesting because I actually thought the characters look really good like in terms of uh in terms of quality of rendering they look really good quality is there um I'm not an

artist I can't really sit here and hate on like the design is trash the the design I would say trash it's trash it's a mix of Guardians of the Galaxy the Galaxy yeah a lot of guardians of galaxy influence yes it's too much and to where it doesn't feel distinct enough right and guardian Galax is a very hard artwork to pull off uh the colorfulness like the big ass bubble robot I think looks kind of cool and then there's like some doctor strange looking girl um like some of the stuff looks pretty decent in terms of like just the characters look interesting but yeah you know um but it's not like knocking my socks off right yeah um but the quality is like pretty TP Notch the the art is like high high quality the artists have technical skills right I would say this has more problems with the art direction right this this Falls uh steeply on the the the the lead character artist and the art director uh

because to me like that Guardian of the Galaxy color scheme is very hard to pull off and the problem is like these characters don't look like they exist in the same universe right the robot especially you know it feels like a lot of like Japanese influence like middle slug right but then it's standing next to all these other characters like where did this come from there's nothing to unify them Al together yeah I get that yeah definitely I get that yeah so so that's is bad art Direction and if you're calling yourself a hero based shooter bro Your Heroes got to be badass like where is the incentive for me to invest into this guy you know what I mean uh I think the closest that I see that maybe what it's trying for is like um Apex Legends right uh so like if I look at that roster and look at this roster I can see where they're trying to shoot for but you look at Apex Legend it's like bam across the board like topnotch there's a story I

don't even know the story of these characters but I could see it you know uh and so like the lackluster of that unfortunately you know um even though it's technically a beautiful game but it it feels uh soless is the best way I can describe it right it just feels very generic um like because I feel like it's a mix of like they're trying to do the valant thing right but the valant thing purposely was is restricted with minimum spec and then it has the riot aesthetic you know although it's valor's a new license they have a lot of like artistic uh transferring from from from the other game all right dude oh man my my brain has been kind of like not there especially late at nights when we record this or early in the morning but I don't know if you heard of magic mine no uh it's like a neut Tropic drink you take a shot my wife has been taking it she has a lot of brain fog and it's kind of been boosting uh just a

good drink in the morning to boost her her her system and she's been able to kind of kind of kind of kind of talk faster be able to operate quicker and it actually it's like one of those I I equate it to like when you go to jambus and you take those grass shots right when people it was popular right yeah yeah so they they I'm actually taking some like turmeric shots right now so yeah yeah to that right yeah yeah so magic M has a bunch of those natural ingredients and it gives you like kind of that boost and uh you know thankfully they've been a kind partner for the podcast and uh it's been actually helping my wife a lot um as part of her like daily regiment I should send you some man you got yeah you got to hook me up I'll sneak some in the airport and when I fly over there in San Francisco all right so here's the deal you can try

magicmine for yourself go to magicmine domcom deev Unchained 20 magm mind.com deev unchain 20 use my code to get you up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off onetime purchases with this code Dev Unchained 20de n c h a i n e D2 I highly recommend the 30 pack for the best value and just try it once you try magic M I'm pretty sure you're going to feel the same as me that it's just this amazing boost to help with your daily gain Dev Endeavors uh so like I I think uh you know it seems to me like the core group of this team were a fan of valerant OverWatch and Apex Legends and it's like when you start when you see it's all three of those games yeah yeah when you see that yeah obviously where the

inspiration from I mean obviously well you just named you named you named the three character Shooters right those are all and then they they saw Guardian the Galaxy 3 over the weekend and it's like let's go with this that's what I saw it's like you can't make it that obvious you know where you get your inspiration from you got to go two three steps further than that uh but then on at the end of the day like I said and I kind of mentioned at the beginning is all comes down to the gameplay right and it's it's just nothing special um just nothing special about the game play and and uh I think what really made it worse is that the developers weren't uh receptive to the criticism right they were instantly shooting down Al Le on X and just the uh Publications thereafter uh they were very like well don't sleep on us you know you'll see you know once the beta comes out it's like that's not the best way to respond it

well I mean you have to have some sort of faith in what you're doing right and I and I do think um they're probably waiting to they're probably continuing to work on it continuing to refine things right um and they they will continue to do that after the game's out even right so so like there's that that's that one aspect of it is like let's see how responsive um they are when the data comes in right can they turn things around my prediction is six month months they will be announcing Studio closure hey potentially potentially you know um although Sony doesn't necessarily need to cut bait that quickly right if they're fully owned by Sony and everything right so um so you could just take take the L and be like you know you have one more chance you know or something like that right I think maybe maybe but but in this in this economy yeah that's what I mean if it wasn't this economy I would believe in that but like I like you don't know what Studios

and how they react anymore I mean they might just cut the cut the losses like you said move yeah it really depends on like what that initial selling is right and the fact that it's not free to play so back on that subject and they have the nerve to ask for money for it yeah because like the those initial sales are going to really um dictate is this thing profitable or not right and of course when it's not when with all the things you've said and it's a $40 price tag it makes it harder to justify that um but but we'll see you know they're not asking for like a whole lot of money either it's it's not like super expensive it's like 40 bucks um so it's it's in that range of like you know mid- tier price tag you know yeah yeah yeah it's uh unfortunately it's uh following a string of AAA major flops the crazy thing about it you it requires a Playstation network account

which which is another problem on on PC yeah I mean they didn't learn from that I mean hell divers 2 kind of nose di after Sony forced yeah yeah like but the thing with hell D it was kind of like a bait and switch kind of thing where they switched it in the middle middle of it being popular yeah but but new games coming out they can easily say hey it requires this right because that's just what it is it's a new game that comes out and this is the requirements right but switching the requirements after people have paid for it yeah is is a little bit little bit more of a problem well I mean game that nobody wants to play but you're also you know creating another wall barrier in front like you know what this is too much for it at this time I don't want to you know but Sony Sony wants to become up like they want to become the freet to-play co-op shooter sure platform and so they want to capture that audience on their platform right

and so and their platform is PlayStation Network you know and and it will also help them raise revenue like you know it's all business moves right but then of course people on PC are like bro right you know what I mean like I don't have to pay for Xbox Live to play Windows games online but I do have to pay for PlayStation Network right but it's well within Sony's rights to do whatever the hell they want and see see if it works and if it doesn't work you know they will adjust the only thing that I feel this kind of adds on to like the you know Xbox has his own prom but like PlayStation's priority uh since kind of like grabbing a share of Bungie is to create an online gaming presence right hell divers 2 was like a a lucky thing right they didn't plan for that they didn't anticipate that obviously they want to duplicate that on purpose going forward but like to hear

firew walk Studios uh and their biggest effort since that initiative is basically a fail again um after last of you know online got cancelled you know uh this this this this pathway seems to be a lot difficult more difficult than they anticipated it seems um make what do we always say man we say to students we teach we say to people that are not in the industry making video games is hard yo you know and it's hard for all of these reasons right like you you're try to find you're try to find a hit and nobody knows what makes a hit you know we just know kind of something some of these things are similar and and we just hope for the best right and hope that we're competing for attention and competing against movies and other games and like the economy and everything and people's time and and we're trying to get people to

buy your thing and make your thing the hot the hot thing right it's it's hard and and I think um Sony like like from when they bought Bungie that was their intent they're like we're building a free-to-play co-op shooter online presence right because they have really none right and what's really shocking to me is like I don't know why they didn't just like straight up just make Socom oh yeah right like that's what's puzzling that's that's the most puzzling thing to me right I don't understand why they just didn't go into the the napsack of like old PlayStation Shooters and just do a a free-to-play Socom and and just be done with it right um but they're trying different things right you know and The Last of Us steps were like nah this ain't us um and budgie is that's definitely in Bud's wheelhouse so we'll see what happens after what's what's after Destiny right um firewalk is

another example and and Hell divers 2o was a huge success but then you know audiences are fickle they'll move off of these things onto something else um so it's like you have to keep that keep that wheel going right yeah that's why I was commenting earlier how disappointing to hear firewalk devs responding to this criticism it just like paints that narrative again that these bigger studios are super out of touch with their core audience I feel like more than ever now uh because I'm I'm seeing like this shift with like the smaller teams killing it uh and and being like hand inand with their core audience getting Early Access getting the game you know and and really listening to to to to the concerns and and then reacting to that I think no men Sky probably began really that shift uh into involving their their core member uh core game player base and firew walk

again is just creating uh that that that Gap even further by by the the the immediate responses like you guys don't know what I'm talking you guys are talking about like to ignore that like like it takes I never comment right and what I do is to poke fun and it's rare right like the people who do comment are the most passionate vocal people that is is a small minority however you know the they do have weight right to some extent to influence thought and to ignore the initial wave of people that are actually downloading your freaking game and spending the time on the weekends to to try it and and give you any type of feedback and for you to shoot them down they'll double down and like [ __ ] you too then so that's what I saw that backlash it was so unnecessary you know it was just like there is a valid point you know the from

the first launch trailer right people were already complaining about the aesthetic right that was the first thing out like Yan Fest is like this the most UN unmotivated you know you know hero based shooter ever is like another one you know what I mean that was all the comments from that first tired I think we're just tired of we're tired but like that's again it's just like you started the game design out of touch and now yeah they're saying say but here's the thing you say out of touch right when they had the idea and started making the game yeah it was the hotness it was the hotness exactly these left Cycles are too long too long by by the time you come out things change right that's why it's more important for Gams as soon as a year in right and it's ready to be play testing in the office you got to put it out there early early access get it earlier the better yeah because as soon as like a paintbrush in

Photoshop it's touching a texture and like no that green color character is [ __ ] I was like oh maybe we should switch you know you'll know right away you like a filter change you know it's like it's important feedback man like yeah somebody else has said that they would take Killzone 2 multiplayer oh yeah over that's the bizarre thing and I'm like I'm like why not two things there's two things like I said Socom I think I think Socom a little bit too much like Call of Duty I guess right but um but kill Zone's a little bit more Fantastical so like that' be cooler but but still like gorilla is not making another Kill Zone you know what I mean I think but they have that license right I just go back to Killzone 2 that opening trailer that we first saw that we thought like there's no way in hell PlayStation two can make this yeah but like now you can make that right it's like make that you know make

it like that and and and that'll be the most incredible shooter game ever um but like you said yeah Sony has so much uh IP in uh and it is a time for Nostalgia it is a shame that they're coming out with this crap right like I would I I would like you're you're being a little harsh on no man I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm echoing the internet right now all right there's a reason why there's only 400 people playing that [ __ ] it's just not good it's a fail all right uh is it paying the bills no it's a fail all right all right but like speaking of which I do want to say this right so moving on from that um you know we talk about like the legacy of Bungie and uh particularly 343 who kind of took over Hilo and in uh hilarious mic sof fashion they're like we don't want you to make

Halo anymore did you see this right to the 3 well I don't think it's I think I think that's smart but like it's like it's such a your whole studio was built around the idea of you like furthering this Legacy of Hal and it's been years of of them failure yeah I would say failure just not doing so great is what I would say right and um and like yeah there needs to be new if you want Halo to survive as an IP maybe somebody else should be doing it New Vision yeah yeah yeah what what is your biggest um because I've never really been a huge Halo fan I come from the PC side so it never was a okay but I can at least uh differentiate you know from Halo 3 maybe Halo 4 and then everything else after that basically in 343's hand started to get started alluding the brand like I could tell

right they were starting to lose the uh the the the uh the the appealing aspect of Halo that made it great and and started to I don't know make make it too like Call of Duty right I think that's when it started to really divide the player base and they were just taking too long right I mean obviously they were [ __ ] up because they were taking like five plus years I mean like literally a console comes out and you're not a launch title right I know Phil was pissed about that because that's how you move consoles you get your number one brand on your console day one and they couldn't deliver and it was like I think two years after that um when they finally release a halo for that system and it sucked right I think it was because people were making fun of the lighting too right it was just artistic Ally behind right and it went through a whole

bad PR um and like had to re be redesigned from the ground up the engine was not I would say yeah I would say design they basically just took more time to to polish up the art right but then when you hear about their development tools and and and super banded and how hard it is to hire Graphics Engineers how hard it is to hire engine programmers and and you have your custom Engine with this bad interface that nobody likes to use right um and you're taking forever to make this thing like like all of these things it makes sense like what what has happened you know what I mean with Halo it kind of makes sense um but yeah yeah but that's the that's the flavor of triaa development that I was talking about like that's what like the concord thing is it's like as soon as your your project is like 100 million plus like developers walk around as if that's their money dude like that that's

like I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure the the Halo team is bigger than the Conqueror team by I know but but like it's it's that it's that like uh Cockiness of being a bigger budget game without proving anything right and some people walk around like these game developer conference with that badge it's like dude you haven't done [ __ ] but like hey I'm working on a huge game right and you know obviously it's a huge flop the developer conference L you know after that they just don't they don't profit up as much you notice that their badges like kind of turn was 24-hour 24-hour Peak was 14400 yeah and 2388 so so then um you're talking we're like sitting here bashing bashing bashing dude that's terrible what about Marvel Rivals Marvel Rivals actually I think had more positive um back I mean first of

all we bash herob base Shooters but people still play it it is at the tell end of like dying but the license of Marvel's right license of Marvel is huge and yeah let's let's just get to the point yeah it says Marvel on it it says Marvel on it right right and that is cool right and there are elements about it it's like it's obviously very overwatched but like yeah but there's like a a mix of valerant in there too right so I mean if I were to it's the same wack it's the same [ __ ] gameplay yes yeah it's Marvel though but it's Marvel oh I I could play Spider-Man oh word right like and it says something about the power of Ip right really but like I want to give credit to the developers like this is like the best way to handle that IP they did a really good job like I looked at all the heroes and how they you know I haven't played it but it seems like the balancing is there where it doesn't feel

got thousands thousands of years I'm exaggerating obviously but they have so much time of of of Marvel games yes character lore like like I mean it's hard to mess this up right at this right right so like I want to give at least credit of like all right that's the game herob based shooter super crowded Market here's a game like Concord obviously not doing well people saying sick of it but then at the same time Marvel like people love it right uh the IP definitely helps but the gaml definitely looks better right I mean yes it's like it's a sameish sameish but this is what people want it's like hey it's familiar but it's with Marvel I'll check it out but is a same gameplay really like oh I can block you I charge at you I can teleport behind you it's the same [ __ ] right but it's just marvel right and and that says something you know um yeah but one big thing thing is what exactly it's uh is it free to play

or is it pay for I don't even know man I don't even know uh I should check I could check on Steam see Steam only said um oh it looks like it's free to play I see I see no price tag and there you go but they don't even they didn't even say when it's coming out but um but but again yeah because the it's the IP right I know everybody in their mother's going to play it and I know when I put up a $20 wolf skin um Hulk skin or whatever or Wolverine skin I know y'all buying it like I know that I know that for a fat right like that's because those characters are badass man you you'll complain you be like oh man I'm paying $20 for some wolver n and then you still buy it you g to still buy that right and and they know this right so yeah I mean all you need to do is just look at Concord uh I mean we bashed it enough but but you look at the lineup it it just does not compare to any other herob B it's it's Marvel to

any herob base shooter to any herob base shooter I mean that and that's what I mean it's bad design it's just like you put it next to people like Apex you look at valerant you look at OverWatch you look at Marvels which is unfair because obviously those characters are super fleshed out and iconic right and uh I mean that's basically should tell that it's back a bad that's what they should have done you know they should have like hey look at all these iconic games let's put our character next to theirs I like can you tell you know I was like uh yeah you can tell you know he's like just put it next to Street Fighter put put it next to Tekken you know any fighting game it's like so to me I feel like whoever designed these characters failed just basics of design man that's sad thing and you know what it could be too like unfortunately it just looks like uh I don't know it's like it's I can't

say that it wasn't like drawn out by a 2d character artist you know it feels like a 3D artist kind of like [ __ ] around in zbrush right and just render you know I mean like you can always tell when a 2d artist like really had all those years of training to design and inspiration to mess around in Photoshop versus a 3D artist unless they're super good but most of the case 3D artists had a very in way of doing things and I've always kind of been able to like spot a little difference of of of just having that classic training of of character design right but anyways that's Concord whatever Marvel Rivals looks awesome it's free to play and it's enough for me like I'll try it out you know I might not stick with it you know I don't know how long it's last I might not have the lasting power of valerant or OverWatch but I'll try it out and as a develop that's the best you can hope for right

just at least try it out um Concord no so decision has been made um but like I'm interested to see the release in three weeks see what actually happens um but yeah I hear I hear I've heard some complaints about it and even I look at it I'm like me yeah you know what I mean but um but yeah we'll see we'll see what the people say people say all right well hopefully those guys get jobs after um oh wow hey man all I'm saying they're released here around uh a September right three weeks three weeks August August a they have three months postrelease to like make something happen right I and you know you and I know that's already planned they're they're doing that right now

right whatever skins or post-release DLC they're doing it right now right so they're banking on that to kind of turn the momentum right and it's Christmas right all the decisions always are made H let's see which game did well and which didn't well do we want to give this team another chance that's that's interesting all of their post lons content will also be free they have to and they'll do and they'll do season launches oh yeah because they they say hey pay pay us 40 bucks right yeah um that's interesting it's interesting won't doing anything because Mar Rivals will release right you know Wolverine for like 20 bucks he I'll buy 20 bucks it's like it like people don't mind paying if it's Justified that's the weird thing right so like we want to sit here and say like hey it's 40 bucks that's why I'm not buying this game I don't think so man like all these Indie

Games have proven this past year like these smaller games like hell divers and whatever power worlds like people will pay if their friends are pay playing it right that's just the bottom line and it's like if my friends are playing it I'm playing it that's my weekend right that's it so uh you know I I know they're trying to like create hype or get Goodwill but like the fact of the matter is your game and design is just not appealing you know that's just it you there's nothing about it our time is fite right I'm going to probably rewatch Deadpool one and two before you know what I mean it's like it's like I to two hours do I want to play this crab or I just want to rewatch and you know my weekend's done you know what I mean that's what you're fighting with nowadays right you're fighting with content it's just people don't want to spend deadpol Wolverine's very good by the way I've been hearing that yeah I'm I watched all Deadpool I watched Logan which I think is what you kind of need to kind of watch this and I'm trying to

catch up you know with my my wife to catch up with that before we go watch it we're still on dead pull one man I keep falling asleep so I've seen it already right so anyways but it helps you it helps um the one thing this past month I want to talk to you about I sent you a few things on on X but like uh Microsoft right uh seems Game Pass have have issu bro it has a right uh what did you send me about that remember well I sent a bunch of Articles saying that they have to raise the price right um uh their their subscription have stalled the past year right it hit a peak right so now they're doing the Netflix thing before uh where basically we got to still you know meet our quarterly projections so raise the price it's like ah you're not quite Netflix to do that right and I saw more obviously people

never like getting price hyped right uh but the the the response to this one seems a lot more louder than what a Netflix would do when they price hike like a lot of people are def like saying straight up I'm canceling it so isn't Justified yet um and I have to kind of agree to that right because I think at the end of the day like the game price the game pass price is like how much per year per year um oh wait yeah what is it per year I don't even know there's so many different TI but if you just say screw it uh Game Pass ultimate yeah right Game Pass ultimate is1 19.99 a month that's like 200 a year increase of $3 yeah so 20 bucks uh that's uh for 12 that's uh 240 240 a year right yeah yeah yeah

yeah a lot man it's a lot well a game is $70 I get it but it's not the game is oh a game is $70 let's just be real here for a minute a game one game is $70 you buy four of those you play four of those boom it pays for itself right and that's not the that's not even talking about all the indie games that are on there and and all of that right so like I think people saying that it's not worth the price are tripping like straight up right now I think dollar for dollar is correct yes yeah yeah now now we get to the interesting conversation around like Game Pass and all that and it's it's it's the same it's a conversation I think we've even had before right where it's just not a sustainable business yes right um because how else you going to get more games you have to pay more money for them you have to make sure the

developers are covered because the developers don't want to give away their games for free the developers want to make the money from the sale so that you have to do some sort of guarantee amounts right and then you need to grow the user base and then pretty soon you realize wait more money's going out than what's coming in and then okay now we have to raise the price and like it's just it's going to be a constant raising the price I don't think it's sustainable um for Netflix but Netflix just at a much bigger scale right yeah they had a head start and and you see you see like Netflix not just with games right the movie side of things and what does Netflix do okay we can we can uh reach out into unta markets India the continent the continent of Africa show Indian stuff show African stuff drawing more user users Revenue right the fund the whole the whole thing right oh hey we doing deals with HBO and all these people but then now they're for too much money yeah what are we going to do well

we're just going to fund fund our own movies then right and cut cut cut the cost down right yeah so so everything they've done is about cutting cost down and and then what's the next thing they do oh you guys think you could share passwords oh word we're we're gonna crack down on that and as soon as they crack down on that you see the revenue jumps huge right when they crack down a password sharing right so like both of those models is all about like just how do you maximize the users that you have and get the most money out of them and so yeah like the price going to go up you know what what Fat Joe say today's price is not yesterday's price right you know I think I agree to you mostly in in in terms of the business side and business strategy that that totally makes sense right but I think that the missing element is that the brand quality right Microsoft is is is kind of it's not as fresh as it used to be right

whereas Netflix when they did all those things their content is King I mean they had like awardwinning awesome stuff yeah right so it's like it's almost like Unthinkable to have a TV and not have Netflix right they achieved that so they are able to kind of mess around with the formula and people are willing to you know go back to it right I boot up I boot up Xbox app though yeah and I see Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 sure sure sure I play that right now I'll play that right now I I know I mean they they they they made flint lock purchases right they made purchases they acquired they made acquisition hey hey I could play I could play cricket 24 bro yeah Cricket 24 but I just on here I think overall just general sentiment right um yeah people don't get excited about Microsoft stuff like even even Activision we said this right right but

even Activision now technically a part of Microsoft I'm willing to bet that if you talk to Gamers oh you like Marcus they haven't been great how about Call of Duty I love Call of Duty right they still you know they don't have that people have been complaining about Activision quality for a while too yes it is whatever whatever game that they acquired lately right there there it's going to take a few more we're still in the transitional phase of people accepting that these Acquisitions are part of micros like branding right like Microsoft branding versus Activision Bethesda Black Ops Black Ops is coming this year dude so what I'm what I'm saying is like it feels like more people are attributing a flop like redfall or anything like a Tangled game works you know when they start doing stupid moves like all the bad things automatically to to Microsoft but then when good things like Call of Duty you know makes Bonker numbers again even

though what people complain about quality or whatever right but like all these positive things they don't exactly say Microsoft is killing it again right whereas play no I like with PlayStation it's very clear that it goes back to Daddy right it goes back to Daddy PlayStation is always King God of War is awesome uh hell blades too even though Sony kind of you know was ignoring that but now they take credit for it you know so it's like it's just weird like it's like customer Fe customer sentiment uh just the people just want the [ __ ] on Microsoft at every opport weird though it's not weird though because for a long time there was no like Microsoft first party games are they're not good or they were not existent right right they they killed their own games that's the thing it's like under Microsoft control their own game has gone to [ __ ] right so although some there are some standouts right and and the stand you know the one big stand out which is like arguably not even really a game it's it's it's more

like a way of life um flights him yeah right flighton is crazy right that game's incredible right and um didn't they kill that team no that team still exists and then like uh for not for yeah Forza and and uh and they mess with that team too I mean they mess with every team because they're trying to cut cut cost right but but that's what it mean but terms of like when the games come out though those games those games are consistently good right Halo it's been shaky um and then War kind of disappeared and I search I search for the next one and I'm struggling to think of the next one right after that right what their big thing yeah yeah so so it's like yeah there isn't there isn't like the the big tent po Starfield was supposed to be one of those big 10 poles it didn't pan out that way but starfields H some people like it people like your those those games from uh Bethesda so you know whatever um h hellblade hellblade 2 decent looks great you know but that's a niche kind of Niche game you can play

like in a weekend right so um yeah and and Flint block is on here is on Xbox but that's kind of also been a flop right um so yeah like but but Game Pass itself with all the things that they've Acquired and all of the Indies they have on here it's still the best deal in gaming like it's the best deal because we know for a fact that they're selling it at a loss right all those Gams yeah it's not sustainable at all they're cannibalizing their own potential basically and I would I would say that beyond their gains like in terms of like ruining their brand right at at the same time they have Fallout which is an amazing TV series right but like they you know obviously Fallout 4 and the games kind of got a boost right but they didn't plan for that they didn't maximize that commercially they didn't like have Fallout packaging you know what I mean like back at 2K I always celebrate that fact like 2K is always great yeah I mean 2K has always been

great at like like really like taking advantage of like hype right but like with Fallout it was like a surprise hit which was stupid it means like Xbox didn't understand what they had when they had it and they give us something like that which also tells me like they had nothing to do with it and then you have something like the Halo TV series right that sucked right and kept on sucking right and I was like then you look this is under the same camp and it's missing it's different yeah it's different and Phil ain't Kevin feige right it's like you're where is that guy with the vision right like the the Bethesda like Fallout TV show was announced like way so many years ago right and and like they had that stuff already like Microsoft had nothing to do with that yeah like at all right you know what I mean and and so you see something that Microsoft has no influence on at all and

it was good right and then um the Halo TV series on bount plus yeah whack right um wack elicious and everybody's like why am I seeing Master Chief's face like all the time right you know big big argument about that show um when he's iconically in his Mass helmet all the time it's like well it never work have you seen Mandalorian did it's like there's but there's no way there's no way to be confused yeah there's no way to be confused because it just m had nothing to do with yeah but at this point this is what I'm saying it's like yo you need to fire everybody on Microsoft it's like this is as clear as de you keep fumbling the [ __ ] that was great like that's like look at this last 10 years right everything that was Great Is Not Great anymore right The fors A Team the fight Simulator the Gears of War Halo right it's all good what are you talking about this last 10 years you name three you name three very

good things no very good things but what I'm saying is like they [ __ ] with those teams in this 10 year like this last 10 years right they [ __ ] with m m talks right yeah but like what I'm saying is this Management Group who who don't even know what they what is good and what they had in in their hands with Fallout didn't maximize that commercial success in any way possible they didn't package Fallout it's like pack Fallout weekend you know when the the TV series come out let's stop right there yeah the Fallout TV show I'm gonna make a hottest take on here right now the Fallout TV show is better than the game the games have ever been have ever been yeah in their entire life yeah right now don't take that as be saying that the world isn't great and that there isn't like a great world there to explore obviously there is cuz they made a really good TV show out of it yeah right yeah but those games are whack

right in a lot of ways right um and uh technically sloppy buggy yeah ugly yeah terrible art right like like those games are rough around the edges like heavy heavy heavy right but then they made they took the world and they made a really great um TV show out of it right under the right direction yeah yeah so so there's that right let's just make that state that blank statement right um so it's it's hard to do those things and also that Fallout TV show took like years like it took them a long time they they announced that like 10 years I'm not I'm not saying to make a Fallout game to release and coincide with the show right there was like a natural boost of Interest back into fallout Fallout 4 that weekend was selling really well on Steam right yeah Microsoft didn't plan that it's like you didn't think that maybe the show and the package deal with Fallout that weekend with steam or Humble Bundle or whatever the [ __ ] you know what I mean would be a

good marketing opportunity you know what I mean what are you guys doing you know all day at the office you know like I just feel like on the business side they're failing right oversight uh management they're failing it's just complete fumbling over and over again right and then like the thing that they are like fingerprints all over Halo it's like the one those like may maybe the crowd this group that you guys got running over should not touch anything you know like it's like if that is not a clear case for the CEO of Microsoft was like hey stop right and I think the first positive they thing they did was 343 and say stop like they literally told him stop making Halo and we're going to start hiring like outside help uh you know no I'll say I'll say this right I think I think like the history or the or the the the track record of

Xbox over these last 10 years has been like very spotty and you could very well say yeah like y'all fumble the bag right fumble fumble like numerous times yeah um I I'll say the one good thing thing there I think the strategy of Xbox playing anywhere yeah Game Pass yeah xcloud yeah I think that strategy finally paying attention to the PC as a gaming platform yeah like they fumbled that for decades right and then they finally came around together yeah maybe we should like actually treat the PC like a gaming platform like all of that stuff it's good decisions right um but but first party has has been feeling it like definitely feeling it pretty pretty hard right yeah it's definitely a good turnaround for them to um to do at least one thing sort of

right right the biggest problem obviously with that initiative is like ah it's not making money you know it's taking a long time and it will take a long time yeah yeah yeah I mean I think it's all unsustainable entirely so what what do you think's GNA happen it's gonna stop like I saw I think I saw a thing today about Xbox 360 and and people because they're stopping services for that or like online access to any games or something like that and people were like oh bet you guys regret not buying CDs because they just those days have pass those days are pass I think the buyers like everybody's like I'd rather own my games and then cut two cut two you see the the chart for digital versus physical and it's like it's crazy right and and so now now that I own it digitally I own it no you don't uh you're you're renting it guys and so yeah what's the difference between that and all you could e gaming on a on a gaming surface um but what's going happen though is yeah the price is going to go up yeah right the the price has to

go up right and then I think also like the whole notion of making Hardware yeah is I don't think there's I don't think there's many console Cycles left for that I think that's G to be done pretty soon yeah well I mean that's why like steam have always been the best right obviously valve has that issue if they just stop like if Gabe wants to bounce right that's it that's our library but like there's somehow more trust with steam because they've been around for like 20 years remember that rumor that was going around too that like Microsoft had interest in buying Steve and people like fre we talked about that we were freaking out because that's the end of steam man I have a lot of games on that I know people would not like that we talk I mean that sounds that sounds like the absolute worst outcome ever right but yeah but I mean it's valve guys the only thing I saw about valve

recently was they released uh data of like uh kind of like their employee retention right how each of them basically get a million dollars of a month on average or something or a year on average right of course there's only 200 people there right uh and the perks that they have as employee it's it was incredible it's like yeah we talked for years about like oh man how do we fix this like developer isue steam in the background have solved it you know for their guys at least no no no yeah every every problem yeah that you could ever think of ever imagine has happened is is easily solved with money right right like if if money's flowing there's no problem B are fat right you can get all the perks you

want right you can have someone come into the office give you massages right you have a nice fancy office the office where steam where steam is at it's a very nice office building yeah very very nice um like you get all these perks because the money's flowing and then of course like why would you leave yeah if you're in Steam making a million plus a year with all the bonuses and everything where you going yeah where else you know what I mean you're you're chilling right and you're and you're making good stuff that everybody around you people in the industry uh Gamers hold the company to a high high regard you know what I mean times are great when it's like that um and then when the bottom falls out of that or you know then things go AR and then oh we can't retain people because like the benefits are gone now and the bonuses are not as great and the pay is not as much and the you know like every problem you could imagine is solved by money yeah that's but I don't think enough

credit or study has been done on valve because they've always been quiet right I mean they've they they don't fall in the pitfalls of most of these other Studios like even blizzard right now is going through its problems Riot even right uh they at some point decided not to go that route and to grow you know substantially they always remain small and they've always been really uh humble with basically their success right they don't talk about it either right they don't like give GDC talks really about like why you say they but but you're it's it's really like Gabe don't do that just Gabe yeah and there's there's something like I don't know I I wish I wish like uh the small percentage of developers that are like that like valve who are are clearly if not by now are

the leaders of the game industry right they started game studios and they made dope IPS and they made sequels of those dope IPS and at some point you I was like you know what we need to solve this problem that we're having and they created like service right I no I think you're G I think it all started out I think it all started out like that and you're giving them a lot of credit I think right at the end of the day luck no the steam the steam store the amount of money that pours in from that yeah it was like why would we make the new right right right because like it just doesn't make Financial sense to make video games if you're making this thing over here is printing money literally right and then some people say oh the cut is unfair and all this kind of stuff right but like exposure whatever whatever right but end of the day you know they they found a gold mine

and we like yeah like then they the amount of games they've made have steadily been like declining or the or the time between when they do make a game has been declining to the point where when they do make a game it's great because like hey I let's take 20 years to make this thing right you know what I mean and let's iterate itate till it's really good um but because they have infinite supply of money coming in right yeah um and so like I think you give them a little bit but but the credit the credit you should give is the fact that yeah with the infinite supply of money coming in they're not wasting it yes right they're not growing crazy and growth growth growth growth growth above all all else you know they're not taking in Crazy investors that just want to pump and dump yeah uh the company right um and I think part of that is because of the steam store being so profitable they didn't need to do that yeah you know um and some other companies they had to take in aside investors they

had to sell to Microsoft or whatever right because it's just not like at the scale they were at is just not sustainable you know or they need the extra security of like a bigger entity fitting some of the bills you know so yeah yeah and I feel like they should share some aspects of why obviously not everyone every Studio can can make their own steam printing money type of thing but a lot of their principles are kind of the same as like the smaller teams that have been seen success last year it's like keep the team small right you know work within your means uh put it out there right uh get feedback right and and then use that to make the next game don't double the size right I mean there's a lot of parallels of why valve is successful that I feel like these smaller teams are tapping into right I just would love kind of he gab just like yeah you know if I were to do this on a smaller scale

this is what I would do right because this is how it worked for us and I think he has a lot of wisdom and by him just saying like I would never invest in GES famously right or infamously many times right uh I would love him to to talk more about that you know what his thoughts about like yeah everybody knows how risky it is to make video games and we do it anyway because we love it right we love it yeah but he does it way that like obviously can still be at least sustainable right um I still wish that he would do more talks it's like it's like dude you're the leader can people can learn from this you know it's it's the industry that made you essentially I give back a bit you know it's like I do summer steam CES isn't that no nothing more than that it's h I just feel like it's marketing operation now at this point you know do do some sales get some money pumping in

there um give game developers uh a market market to um it's it's all it's to me it's hilarious too because I remember when when um steam was mandatory install yeah and people hated it for halflife and people didn't just hate it man people were like Raging denouncing Raging yeah and then and then the servers crashed you could even install it today right cuz everybody was trying to log in install it I remember though like I remember when everybody hated steam right hated digital storefronts yeah and then now like where we're at you know it's it's kind of crazy yeah everybody wants to create their own digital storefront now right yeah I think it's finally hitting a turning point the same time that Netflix and all their competitors are are kind of uh backstepping from from that um business plan I like oh yeah we can't keep doing this and so I'm seeing like bundle deals

and all this stuff um I mean aside from maybe Apple Netflix are they're the only two that are actually pretty good with it all right man well uh that that concludes the hour I I want to thank you for uh being on as always and giving your opinion and plenty of news bashing with me how how do people find you then where you hang out on Twitter I'm still on there you go see I told you there's no else to go yeah yeah yeah I'm still there I'm still there I feel like I'm I'm in the empty room with cop web so I'm still there whatever D no a lot a lot of people a lot of people that I follow are just gone from there like and there's some there's some that I follow there are still there but but a lot are gone yeah yeah it's a lot different so all right well uh see you

guys there have a good one [Music] [Music]