Week in Mobile Games E65: Gamescom insights and India's shock real-money gaming ban

[Music] Hello and welcome to the pocket gamer.biz podcast week in mobile games where we discuss the week's news and provide some insights. Craig Chapel, head of content at pocket gamer.biz. With me as always, Aaron Hassel, our news editor. How you doing, Aaron? What you been up to?
Uh, yeah. Yeah, I'm doing well, thank you. I've finally settled on my next game after Zenoblade. I've decided to to revisit an old favorite of mine, which is Fire Emblem Fates back on the 3DS, but I'm now trying it on the hardest difficulty. So, you got normal, hard, and lunatic. About a third of the way through my my lunatic run already.
Um, one mat was incredibly difficult. It took me about 5 hours at the weekend. A lot.
How long does the map take typically?

I mean, if you're playing on one of the lower difficulties, maybe like 40 minutes.
That's quite substantially more difficult.
Yeah. One of the things I quite like about Fire Emblem is if if a character dies, um, like they're gone. So, you kind of have the tradeoff of do I want to carry on because like this map's gone well, but I now don't have these characters I've built up because they got killed, or do you accept kind of I'm going to reset the map and try again and hope they don't die this time, but you've kind of lost your time investment, but then you're saving, you know, you're regaining the time investment you've put into those characters and like the limited exp and resources you put into them. So yeah, that there was a lot of repeats on that map until I did like like lose one character, but I wasn't as worried about them. I had one run where I got like right to the final bit and then like my best character died. It was like I can't can't do the rest of the game without them. So I have to reset now.
You really I like that. I mean that that is exactly what I do in games. I'm like well I could take this pain as it's part

of the experience. You know that's the whole point. That's what the game is trying to elicit from me. Or I could just restart this madness.
Yeah, I'm just concerned by the time I get to the end game because that's quite hard even on the kind of normal and hard difficulties. And this particular game like the final map is quite infamous on Lunatic especially. So it's like if I lose objectively the best character a third of the way into the game, probably not going to fare too well by the time we get to the end.
Yeah, that sounds challenging. Sounds fun. Yeah, I'm quite enjoying it. It's um I've played some other ones. They don't call it lunatic mode anymore. I don't know if that was too like controversial on the Switch. It's Maddening mode, which I have have done.
That's quite a good name as well. Madden in a way. I could call it nightmare or something. That's not in theme. My favorite game ever is is Alien Isolation. And um I played that on nightmare mode because that's what they called the hardest difficulty. I usually

actually play games somewhere. Okay, I usually play games on normal. There are some games where I'm really there for the story. I will just play on easy now. I'm just like I don't care. It's going to be like a 40 50 hour game
as is. I'm like I'm fine. I think I did God of War like that and I think I enjoyed it more because of that.
Yeah.
And then just like have to repeat something like 20 times
for that particular experience. Alien Isolation Nightmare. That was terrifying. Scary as is. All right. Cool. Uh, as as for my as for myself, um, I've been I've been away at Gamescom. I'll get to that in a bit. That was very good. Touchwood, I'm not ill yet. I know some people have got co since then. So, hope you're all feeling well if you were at Gamescom. Um, but other than that, I've been watching Alien Earth, another Alien thing. And actually, I'm all in on it now. I think it's really, really good. It's only eight episodes, so I think they've just done four. The last episode was one of those typical streaming TV things where they're like everything suddenly quiets down and they just have to set

everything up for future episodes. It was a bit slow. That said, some really interesting character stuff that they're doing uh with the synths and uh I'm really and they actually did a really good job with that. So, it was quite a it was quieter episode but also quite unnerving I guess I would say a lot of it which which was great. really good performances. So, if you're not watching that, I do highly recommend checking that out. Right. Anyway, back to the games. So, before we get into the news, uh we'll do a few shoutouts for our events. So, we we just had the Pocket Gamer Mobile Games Awards. Congratulations to everybody uh that was a finalist. And of course, congratulations to the winners. Um it was a really really great evening. There's there was about 200 uh industry uh luminaries I guess in the room. Had a really good time dinner awards. Great great company. What more could you ask for really congratulations also to Evelyn Herrera for picking up the rising star awards and Aken Babby for picking

up the mobile legend award. Really good night. Upcoming events we've got PGC Helsinki October 7th and 8th bringing together the whole Nordic region. So we'll have actually a bit more presence hopefully this year for kind of Swedish Danish as well etc. And we got Pocket Gamer Connect Summit Korea October 31st. PGC uh Akaba November 8th and 9th. PGC Summit Canary Islands December 4th to 5th. I think that's it for the events we're doing this year. We'll also be doing some top a top 50 at Helsinki. Stay tuned. And we're doing other top 30 lists for Mina and Southeast Asia. So, lots going on. And we'll have some regional reports as well. Goodness me. Very busy. Right. Anyway, news. So, I mentioned that. So, I mentioned that I've just been to Gamescom, which was great as always. I love going to Gamescom actually. Like these events, they're like a week long. So this and GGC, you know, it could be quite tiring,

but I I think it's just such a great time to be able to meet like everybody pretty much like in the industry, at least everybody frontf facing in the industry. You get kind of thrill insights in what's going on from the people actually making the games or actually in the games business, right? And a few takeaways. So I was there from Sunday to Friday. So I was there for DevCom, which has now been re renamed to Gamescom Dev. Would you believe it? They're actually two separate things. So, DevCOM was its own business. Gamescom is its own things, but everyone always thought they were just together because the name sounds similar, right? And now it's now part of Gamescom proper. So, now it's called Gamescom Dev. I don't know if what they're going to do if they're going to expand it out of that show. I'll be interested to see that if they do that, but otherwise, yeah, firmly in Cologne, rebranded. See how they do next year. Imagine it will just be more of the same. Uh so I was there for that first two days. Then I next three days I was at Gamescom

proper. Made some good time to see the cuz at the expo floor which is really interesting. So it's really really fun week. I takeways and the first two are literally every time I do a takeaways article I'm sure or if people care to notice I'm sure people noticed when I write these two of them are always the same. So the first one I put was the direct consumer revolution grows stronger and so like ahead of the show there was quite a bit of news um app charge was very lucky in the sense that they obviously you can't time these things like that but they they announced their big funding round of $58 million which is insane obviously just before Gamescom began so that was big news. Exomade, a bunch of announcements ahead of the show. SDKs, the Windows Store, the Epic Game Store, and Unity. Aanim had a new live ops and game hub builder. So, they're all kind of ahead of the show letting everyone know that they're there, that they're doing they're doing exciting new things. And at DevCom,

there was quite a good few talks about direct consumer. Exa obviously would be bullish on it. VP of monetization products, Artum said, uh, DTC isn't optional anymore, which I guess it was just pretty fair. If you're a big publisher, you should be doing it. The most amazing comment that I saw was this really good panel that had Thumb Plus, Exola, Apps, Flyier, and Crazy Games on it. And so from Thumb Plus, it was a VP of business develop development, Bob Slint, and he gave some really, really interesting remarks. is pretty open about how they've dealt with changes on the app store. And he said that really their their push into direct consumer came because as a as a reaction or at least it accelerated it as a reaction to Apple's IDFA changes when obviously the privacy changes optin etc that they were like oh well we better start our DTC. So it's actually really interesting to see

like the journey and and the catalyst of like Apple changing its rules. So people trying to move away from it and then now Apple's also in the midst of like fighting for its revenue share. So it kind of shows how much Apple has pissed off uh develop developers across the industry. He said that uh so if anyone remembers for the digital markets act Apple has gone through a couple business uh changes to their business terms and one of them one of them had I actually I can't even remember how it works. Uh they've got sorry they've got two different tiers now. That's their new system. Their old system was the alternative business terms or you could just have the status quo. Plus actually accepted the alternative business terms which included the core technology fee which was a charge of 50 cents per install over a million which could be substantial. He said that for fun plus for their four act strategy games where

they don't drive loads of downloads. They do still drive quite a bit but not like other genres that it they weren't that impacted by that. But he did say things like hybrid casual would be very potentially very impacted. So I thought that was really interesting and and just in general everyone's talking about it. Exod really interesting show. I think there was also a bit of a sense that like now's the time to now's the time to take advantage because you I guess you don't really know technically what the future holds. In the US it's all kind of that you can freely link away but that might not be that way forever. We'll see. And obviously the EU may be about to accept the new rules. We still haven't heard anything from that. So really should be expecting that soon. Some sort of decision. So yeah, people just trying to take advantage of it. Now that was probably like one of my bigger takeaways. Then obviously so I've got four my second Asia's influence on the global games market. So if you're on the Xbox 4, you could really just see everywhere. You got Hovere, there was Infold Games there, Grafton, Tencent.

Obviously, they all had like a massive presence. So, you could just see uh what were the other ones? Some games. I've got uh Huawei App Gallery had a big presence on the show floor. Samsung was there. Hypergri with Endfield, which Ark Knight's game. You can just see how much they're trying to make a splash internationally. And then also, I guess as part of that, how much money they've got to spend on that. I got a chance to speak with Infold and they make the Love Nikki games and Love and Deep Space. I spoke to them about love and deep space. Interview will be on the site in the next week or two. And one of the most interesting things that they said and this is the kind of level that western publishers compete at is for love deep space which made I think a few hundred million on the apps on Google Play. It's like a dating sim really popular. They have like 500 people working on that game. I think that includes some of the backend technology team. But it's like that's a massive number and that's just one of their games. They do love Nikki and the other Nikki games. So that's that's the level you have to

compete at. I think a lot of the examples I used there were China except for Samsung and obviously there was bad code, Nintendo had a big switch too thing going on. Konami is around. All this is not to say by the way Western publishers weren't like missing. They were very much very present but it's just also interesting to see uh how how many how big a presence Asian companies had. So it was like really truly truly global industry. And then the other thing to add on to that was just there was just a lot of anime like Ark Knights Endfield had just so many posters in the in the main hall that connects to like the the other halls and it was just everywhere was anime like whether it was just people in cosplay like that or just other games with that kind of style. So that's proving very popular globally. We've we'll talk about it in a bit as well but like Uma that we've mentioned plenty of times on this podcast like that seems to be doing pretty well in the west. So yeah, everyone loves anime and I'm a big fan as well.
I guess um to your point of how many

kind of the presence of the Asian developers um like that kind of tracks as well with like we've talked on the podcast before about how well a lot of those mobile games are doing and like the last year I think all of the top 10 like new mobile games 2024 were all out of Asia. So, as you say, it's not as if, you know, western developers aren't doing anything, but it makes sense why that presence is kind of being felt more. I guess that they're taking advantage of this momentum that's clearly building.
Yeah, you're exactly right. And I guess Gamescom has just become a big global show and it's not like these booths are there and they're trying to also they're not they're trying to get new fans that are not that well known like like for example Love Deep Space and I think Love Nikki was pretty crowded at least for a photo I saw but when I was at the Love and Deep Space booth there like a lot of fans queuing up and taking photos and really just like happy to be there. So

like they've already got these communities in the west as well. So yeah, really interesting. The other two quick takeaways, I'll wrap this up. TV TV streaming platforms were kind of had a big or like entertainment companies, I guess you might want to call them, that they had a reasonable presence there. Netflix especially, you'd almost forget that Netflix actually has a games division. They had these like big sets. They had a big boat from One Piece and they had a big kind of set for Wednesday which if I remember right was like the house and they had like different they had like different sets or like a living room and something else can't remember now for Stranger Things and then you just sort of left thinking okay well do you want to show one of your games? I mean, if they did, and I missed it, if they did show something, but they're very much focused on here's our here's our great TV shows, which I guess so all the consumers, not just games fans, right? They're also interested in this other entertainment IP. So, that was interesting. The other ones on show were Paramount and Paramount Plus specifically had a boo. They kind of

actually had a mix of they had like I think some posters for like I wish it was called the the Star Trek TV show, not Discovery, the other one. A bunch of their like IP for games. So, it made kind of made more sense. Disney Disney Plus was there for Alien Earth, but that booth couldn't really make an impact cuz it felt like it was weirdly it was wasn't small, but it felt hidden. And because it's Alien Earth, they can't just have it open up to show everyone because it's like adult. So, you can't see anything inside. You could just hear if you went close enough, you could just hear screaming. I was like, interesting choice. Uh, but yeah, it was just fascinating to see that intersection of games, TV, and film. and we've been speaking a lot about trans media. So that really showed itself on the show floor. The last thing is just that things felt for mobile specifically really things felt quite positive in the industry or if people weren't like being overly optimistic positive about what's going to happen with mobile gaming. there wasn't like the negativity, right, that I had felt at previous like

Gamescoms and GDC's and other shows um where people be quite open about like the trouble they're having. I'm not saying that the industry is still in a tough place for a lot of people. It is, but I think people are a bit more optimistic or there's like that realism that's coming through, but it's not like entirely negative and pessimistic. It's just okay, we're here and we're we're trying to do cool things. So, those are my takeaways. It was a really good show. Yeah, I I I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, it sounds like it was good.
Uh, what did did you did you get a sense of anything from from from HQ in the UK?
Not a lot to be honest. I think I saw like one or two game announcements um from there, but it's it's weird with the events. It seems like we always either it's like crazy so much news coming out it's hard to keep up with or unless you're there like from the outside it's just like really quiet. There doesn't really seem much in between.
Yeah. Yeah. I I feel there was some news

beforehand. There was quite a fair bit of news beforehand and a bit during the show. EGC is always a lot busier, right? Being a bit more well, a lot more trade focused. Yeah. Gamescom is is huge. I guess that's the other thing. It was just huge. So many people. It was impossible almost to get through the expo floor. You certainly couldn't do it quickly. Yeah. I I had a really good time and uh it was a great show. So Aaron, moving on. What have you got?
First up from me, this news is from last week now, but as we didn't do a podcast, that was quite big news to bring up. In compliance with the digital markets app, Google has updated its external offers program in the European economic area. So, there's quite a few changes, but effectively it means developers can kind of more flexibly direct users away from paying things in game. it's supposed to be easier to take them to like a browser page or another app store if they've installed one or like a web view. But apps that feature links to external

sources are also going to be like reviewed for compliance with Google Play terms and apparently starting in the autumn developers will need to like declare fact that they have external app links. Um, I presume that means on like Play Store page, which Google has argued it's for security reasons because links kind of taking a user out of game and apparently expose users to serious security threats. Aside from that, the the Play Store also now has two tiers of fees. So every app is at least going to be in tier one, but developers can kind of opt into tier two and then you get kind of the benefits of both, but also the the fees from both. And essentially this means kind of a higher cost. Um you take more of a hit on your inapp purchases, I guess, but it will allow you to kind of access a lot of features that you already kind of can before this was implemented. But like um being able to appear in recommended and like

discovery um search results, the pre-registration's apparently going to be limited to tier 2 as well. And um things like Android vitals. Um so yeah, apparently if you're only in tier one, it means you can kind of get away with paying smaller fees, but your game won't be very discoverable. It'll only show up if you very if someone very specifically searches for your game. So it makes it sound like basically people are going to have to go for tier two to kind of keep things as they are, but then that means paying for both tiers, which whether it whether it gets any backlash or whether it's just it's kind of expected Google's going to do what they can to I guess make people opt in to what they've been dealing with for years anyway.
I find this I hate this. So uh we we were talking about this just before we went on the show because I'm still kind of catching up. So I was looking at this And I thought, well, so to boil it down, oh, it's like 13%. And then you you

brought it out. I was plus 10. Basically, what they've done is they've copied Apple to an extent, right, with tier one and tier two. And then uh so it's yeah, 10% and then plus 10% for tier 2 plus 3%. What's the 3%? Is the 3% the initial acquisition fee? It's not very clear. It can't be. Oh, wait. Sorry. Sorry. It literally says so plus 10% in that purchase plus 3% subs after a successful offer conversion.
Is that like subsequent then like after the first one? Is it 3%?
No, it can't be that right. I don't know.
Or does it mean subs as in subscriptions?
The problem the problem with this right is that immediately looking at it you don't know what you have to do. So with with Apple and I can't remember the word count now. I think it was like over 25,000 words, right, in in various different documents that are not they're not that hard to find. They're not that easy to find either to to learn the new rules. And it feels like the same with Google, right? I'm looking at this like it's not immediately clear. Whereas 30%

very clear, right? That that's what you pay. And and this to just just try and hang on to as much of that fee as possible is is not great to me. I know. I completely understand why they do it because that's what they want to hang on to that. Also, public companies don't just suddenly lose loads of money. But this is it's insane and it'll probably work because at least it was reported that the EU is going to accept Apple's new terms. So, if the EU is going to accept that, like I don't really see the issue with in that sense. I don't see the issue with this. But yeah, I really don't like it that they now decided to split up how the fees work and just make things really difficult for for games companies. And obviously there's a lot of very smart people at games companies that work it out, but if especially if you're a smaller developer, publisher, it's it's quite a lot to go through really.
Yeah.
Yeah. This is the future. In six months, we'll talk about they're doing something else now. Also, uh as a quick they

mention they're basically mentioning like scare screens expose users to serious security threats.
Yeah.
On Android. Yeah. The the the most secure platform on earth. Anyway, we'll move on. The other the other thing I want to talk about huge news last week. I took a look deeper look into it this week. In India, they basically announced the promotion and regulation of online gaming act 2025 and it basically it was like announced uh on August 20th and by August 22nd it had received presidential ascent and whilst there has I believe been varying degrees of sort of regulation sort of talked about over recent times I think if I'm correct Holy crap. I'll correct myself next week if I'm wrong. There was like extra taxation on real money games right early this year. But anyway, so what this law does is it bans real money gaming and it does

lay some sort of a framework to support the broader games industry. So it's not like India is saying games are horrible, they are bad. It recognizes online games and social games and esports and sort of outlines a framework. And now a new industry trade body has kind of been set up after this to use that. Although it's weird cuz I'm sure there is another India games trade body. So I'll be uh talk talking to them about that. But so they claimed that real money gaming really harsh language of this bill but that includes so real money gaming is you literally pay actual money in expectation of a real money reward, right? And that can come in the shape of like card games like poker and fantasy sports. And the bill was like this has led to serious social, financial, psychological, and public health harms particularly among young individuals and economically disadvantaged groups. It also linked what it said was the unchecked expansion of online money gaming services to financial fraud, money laundering, and even the financing

of terrorism. And the law comes with significant penalties including imprisonment for offenders. I think it was a minimum of three years. So I took a bit of a look into this. I looked at how the companies are reacting and how big Real Money Gaming is. I've been coming covering India for a long time and I'll be honest, I didn't realize the data is all there. I I just didn't realize h how substantial real money gaming was. If you just say if you blanket said India's games industry is worth this a lot of that actually means real money gaming. So if you think in 2024 the games industry this is according to a report from IEC which also did a report of Windsor gaming that's a platform that also does run money games in India. In 2024 India's games market made $3.7 billion. 85.7% of that was real money gaming. 14.3% of that was nonreal money gaming. So everything else if I look on at Magic maybe App magic overestimates and this

is terms of net revenue was a bit high. It was like 300 remember 38 million but it actually kind of tracks quite closely to this these figures. So I don't think they're wrong and I just thought that was insane. Yeah. So 3.2 2 billion basically comes out of 3.7 as real money gaming and that's what we call India's games industry. I'm I'm shocked and between 2019 to 2024 $2.8 billion was invested by foreign companies into India's games market. $2.5 billion of that was linked to real money gaming. So basically, you've wiped off billions of dollars worth of investment. Assuming these rules, this law isn't going to change or be challenged. It sounds like I've been reading comments on it. So these are just sort of off the cuff comments from people. It sounds like that would be very difficult to do because it was passed through government to challenge it. Like Nazara, it's a public company in India. They've acquired UK studios Fusebox and Curve Games. They've been

hit hard by this. So they've it's knocked off seemingly like hundreds of millions of dollars from their market cap. Last year they invested $117 million into Moonshine Technology which makes operates a game called Poker Bari. That game is now uh so Nazara said it now holds a 46.07% stake in that company. That game is offline. You can't play at all. Like so people that had their money in it, they could still withdraw that. You've invested $170 million into this company and that company also itself has a lot of employees. It's just offline. I don't know what they're going to do about it. Itself said so Nitish Mr. We had an interview with him a month or two ago and he was saying how actually they've got like they're quite diverse so if they ever had any issues in one part they'd be okay. He said that he claimed that the move would have no impact on Nazara's consolidated revenue or AIDNA, but he added it would evaluate the potential impairment of his investment.

So, this is like serious stuff. And elsewhere, Winso, which is a platform that offers various games, including Real Money Gaming, they've raised like a $100 million in the past, like over that I think. And they've had to like cancel a bunch of those games. sorry, cancelled. They've had to take shut down a bunch of the Real Money games on their platform. They've now also very swiftly, this is, I think it's been a long time coming, they've expanded into the US and they're doing kind of short video dramas on their platform now as well. So, they're obviously looking at ways to uh expand out of Real Money Gaming. Mobile Premier League in it series E funding round in 2021, it raised $150 million at a $2.3 billion value valuation. the year before that they've raised 90 million. Uh they've stopped all their real money tournaments effective immediately and I think that was I don't actually know I think that was the basically their main way of making money. uh absolutely crazy and we had like uh

investors coming out so Anush Tandon who's with Bitcraft he's very experienced leader in India uh he called it a he called it a seismic moment for the industry and he actually mentioned this has come when at least two to three real money gaming companies were prepping for their IPOs so to go public and he said which is clearly now a thing of the past um So they're gonna have to diversify to fight for another day. The Lumachai fund which has invested heavily in India's market. Some of they said 3% of its platform is Real Money Gaming. I think they've actually had some exits before this from Real Money Gaming. So that was good timing. But they they released a statement. They're saying they're still committed. But yeah, I'm in shock of how quick this happened. I think everyone's been taken by surprise in that market. Investors, international investors would have been taken by surprise just literally in a few days. How does that happen? And then uh I'm also shocked at how much of a

growth area this was in India's market that these companies were so exposed to that and how much that India's games market was made up of this. So when we refer to it I think most people would think of oh like their mobile games are doing really well but actually what we're saying is real money is doing really well. I'm not going to get into I think people obviously debate like whether this is right or wrong, right? But uh certainly from an impact perspective, it's it's pretty devastating and and just shocking. Right. Onto the final story. Aaron, what have you got?
Yeah. So, my other story this week is about Uma Muz as you alluded to earlier. So, it's um just over two months now since it launched globally. the 26th of June that it released and um it's it's doing pretty well outside of Japan based on AppMagic estimates they're spending on Google Play and the App Store. 57% of its mobile revenue has come from outside

of Japan since that launch, which I'm surprised it's that high. I I thought obviously, you know, they must have been confident it was going to do well to expand it outside of Japan after like 4 years being exclusive there. And of course, that means it's new here and it's kind of an old game over there. But even so, Japan is still the um the biggest spender overall, but the US is quite close behind it in this like latest two-month period. In the US, players have spent like 87% as much as uh Japanese players over the like two months since it's gone global. So, the US is kind of leading overseas spending. Players there have spent 31 million so far out of like 35 million overseas overall. So, I think Canada's the next biggest only like 3% of global spending since the the launch. Um whereas yeah as say the the US is

down a lot more. So it's like 31 million versus like 35. Um it'll be interesting to see kind of how how it performs longer term. It's also worth noting like obviously the game's far from its peak in Japan, but it's not as though it's suddenly kind of fallen off since going global or anything. The majority of spending technically coming outside of Japan isn't as if the games recently hit a new low or anything. And the spending's also kind of picked up in the second month outside of Japan. It was like 50.3% in month one that came outside of Japan. Whereas now this like two-month average has brought it up to 57%. And again like Japanese spending hasn't declined particularly during the second month. So it is actually kind of gaining gaining speed outside of Japan. So yeah, I'm curious to see whether that kind of percentage keeps growing in the kind of overseas direction or whether the global players fall off and it goes back to being majority Japan again. But yeah, as

I as I said, I'm just quite I'm surprised it's um doing quite as well as it is outside of um outside of Japan. And like I've been seeing on like my YouTube recommended and stuff like people that um I kind of watch for other game franchises have been trying it out even if they're it's not their usual kind of genre then like it seems like it has actually kind of broken into the the mainstream almost a bit. Um conversely I was telling the friend last week I haven't seen in a while.
I swear you've done these stories before and I love those. you're like I spoke to a friend about like some obscure random gaming thing.
Yeah.
I just love hearing these reactions.
Um Yeah. So, but I spoke to kind of a game a friend who's less so into like gaming. And he he was quite taken back when I was like, "Yes, there's this like horse girl like anime racing game where you like train girls to race." He he didn't re he wasn't quite as receptive to it.

But um yeah, I said online it's it seems to have like taken off more than I thought it was going to over here. Um which is interesting to see.
I feel like with anime you can just sort of get away with almost anything cuz the premise is so like ridiculous.
But so is anime and I do love anime.
I guess I guess it works. I don't know what else to say anymore about it. people like it and like I said earlier games anime was a big thing. I don't remember seeing Uma Muz there.
It must have been. I can't remember. But anyway, more anime was there and and so yeah, people just really love this stuff. Right, so that brings us to the end of the week mobile games. Thank you so much Aaron as always for being on the show.
Yeah, thank you. It's been a fun one.
And thank you everyone for tuning in, listening. Sorry we missed last week. Just Gamescom madness got in the way. Touchwood will be back as normal next week. We'll see. But otherwise, have a

great weekends. We'll see you soon.