two & a half gamers session #12 - Metacore 65M loss, Niantic 1 hit wonder, Industry conference guide

[Music] hello everybody welcome this is no [ __ ] gaming podcast when i have gamers session number number number section number 12 discussing latest news fine stuff and dropping some knowledge uh and don't forget this is four a.m conference discussion vibe so let's not take it too seriously let's dive in and uh you know let's let's enjoy it together welcome guys uh felix and yakub how was your week i think i got covered again outstanding move surprise well that's that's uh what you get where uh for uh attending edm uh uh music festival right yeah exactly yeah and sharing glasses and stuff so yeah yeah you know you get what you deserve well let's see well there's uh one in

july in slovakia and then another one in august so let's see what i think i can get during the summer yeah i have hit the end of the content right below star currently pretty much not much content left so all you all you always talk about do you have a life of course you always always speak about he lives in the metaverse he lives in the metaverse what you know game designers like to play sure okay do you have any other news besides the lost ark of course of course there's spring coming here and you know going for walks out [Laughter] oh my god oh man okay it feels like ages since you last talked with steven and he was like last last week and great to be talking to you guys so today we're going to talk about metacore

and uh and meta uh as well meta versus uh also about like how u.s government thinks uh the crypto highest axi infinity was pulled by north korea interesting and uh niantic with a new ar game talk about sonic the hedgehog and cd projekt red cells and we have our main topic at the end which is an industry conference guide so uh yeah well let's start oh matya you need to start with the first story you're the one that's been championing this for ages well i had a lot of comments uh as soon as they started doing these tv commercials with katy bates so okay so metacore the the finnish company spent around 20 million on tv commercials with hollywood stars

and they rotated the tv ad during the prime time on fox and abc so pretty large tv stations right so large advertising investments increased metacore's net sales to almost 60 million but they produced kind of like what 65 million loss already this year yeah something like that which is interesting but but i expect the revenue of 150 280 million yeah that's what i wanted to say so um so they're aiming for getting this money back in one and a half years or two years so in in the world of ua you have always a problem if you have small budget you don't know where to spend it efficiently or if you have very high budget you don't know where to spend it because you're spending already on every channel that is out there so um it's interesting that they are saying uh this uh in a headline this is a

mathematical system where money is put in and this is known how to get it back i mean you get some money back uh after you spend it back so it's who would send that right i i mean i i think this tv spot ad is not necessarily like i can see how it could have been a great idea on paper i can see some people sitting in like a boardroom on the marketing team and being like how do we reach our golden core which is women aged 45 to 60 which is like you know their kind of golden goose laying cohort and you know someone might be like oh tv ads and then like oh how do we stand out oh we have just like well how much they borrowed from supercell like they lent 150 150 and then they're like oh we should easily spend like you know two percent of that on a tv ad like why not like that's how you reach these people and then like on paper it sounds amazing but you know reality is not on paper and

like when it's probably hit the airwaves you know like i'm sure this like tv ad since they're not doing another one pretty much says that it was abysmal well they they claimed the tv commercials uh performed a little bit worse than they hoped surprise surprise but felix you are on fire i love it i love that well look so if you spent already on all the channels out there then the tv is uh well a really nice addition to everything it adds up to all the branding [ __ ] that a lot of marketing team is speaking about because about you know oh well you know 150 million like you said we can spend it on tv well okay which is quite questionable because if you if you spend 20 million on on tv with um well underperforming results or subpar

results then you could spend that 20 million on other ad networks with uh maybe a little bit worse roi but at least you could uh well evaluate properly a bit more i mean i mean i mean you can measure this the same way pretty much as old school tv ads and yeah you measured old-school tv ads you look at the attribution data like if it spikes during the time the commercial airs yeah i would love to take a look they're probably using apps flyer or adjust or something like that i would love to take a look at it and see what actually happened when they aired this like on the two tv stations if there was even a bump or if it was i'm sure that line was a bump the main question is of course that uh you're spending already on uh channels it's not the question of do we do either tvs or ua we do both but the the real question is if these 20 million tv ads that's just the cost of production or the actual cost of the advertising time is still more worth it than actual throwing ui into other channels

that's that's the main question in my book well in my opinion you always uh you always hear what i i'm about to say about this branding [ __ ] activities although i ran several tv ads in in the past in not in the us in uk germany friends and it was kind of nice well during the global launch but really afterwards i wouldn't most probably i wouldn't do it again i would rather spend it on different channels than than tv you can still reach those players on other channels okay here's a question oh nice all right question let's like put yourself in this situation i'm the person in the medicore like board reading room or the like the marketing person who's pitching this but instead of saying it's going to be on nbc a prime time i say we spend 60 million instead of the 20 million but we put it during super bowl what do

you guys think does that change anything yeah well look even though super bowl is like a holiday uh for all the all the marketing people i'm not sure if that target audience is there yeah there's a mismatch within the audience definitely there that's the thing i mean the clash of clans or crash royale what was uh which one was it with uh yeah yeah so that was definitely like uh competitive males that's what you want to get yeah exactly so that made sense but uh well merch mentioned super bowl i'm not sure i'm not sure but i might die well i would do it i would do it anyway [ __ ] it i'll do it anyway just for fun now jokes aside uh as soon as this was uh released

it was also used for ajar type of campaigns for metacore and i was seeing those ads across linkedin all the time all the time it was just uh ridiculous but i have to say so um their ads at the moment and i i've been targeted a lot in in the last couple of months well obviously because they need to expand the target audience with that kind of budget um and i see pretty nice uh amount of comments and and shares and reactions under those those creatives so i was really really skeptical but then um players comment always about okay wow this is amazing we are really curious how the story goes what's next so they're looking at this uh as kind of like a series of of creatives something similar that lily's garden did already kind of exactly yeah i don't want to say copying but taking heavy inspiration it's the same thing it's the

same thing all over again they just used celebrity and it's like very much like more expensive than the little skirt what can we do i mean like felix like you said it's it looks very good on paper but in iraq in reality i'm not fully convinced that this is something that works well when when you ran these tv commercials yourself which genre was it i think it was casual it was casual yeah adventure how did it convert like how did you track the bumps by just seeing when the air is like yeah how were they like was it like in germany was it like 500 in store was it a thousand installs like no it was actually a baseline a couple of thousand the installs actually during those uh like overall during uh the whole um tv spot and also what we found out is that um there was some like decrease in terms of the cpi um around those um times that we aired the tv spot but we never actually were able to prove

this is actually because of the tv spot so yeah because then you know you don't see player x ads running in the tv exactly that's the main main point here very good point step yeah that's the thing so uh either you do fake heights and and try to to maximize the the lowest cbi possible or you go tv well i know what i would choose okay we can move on with that [Laughter] okay so meta again in the headlines or let's say facebook uh former facebook said that they will charge creators up to 47.5 to sell virtual items in their version of metaverse which the company said that uh let me patronage break it down so first you pay 30 of the cost when you buy

something on oculus quest uh platform and then you pay additional 25 out of the rest of it uh to have some kind of a trading fee if i understand correctly and if you add those twos up you end up with 47.5 percentage sale price uh for each dollar depending on yeah where the sale price take place and this is kind of interesting because mark zuckerberg was the one that previously criticized apple for charging developers too high of a fee of 30 which now they even increased why not i told you he was criticizing apple because 30 is really low they should charge more they recharge more yeah so they're starting to pretty much roll out their monetization machine in their if i get it right this is the horizon worlds app that they want to have this kind of a metaverse in which currently is just people without legs in this kind of animated avatar circus

so don't know if what's happening i think they even said that they're using animated circus is that's that's perfect but they said they they're using it as some kind of uh remote work place uh during corona yeah yeah they have uh their uh meetings in in the horizon worlds with with the headsets on and everything so like i should be the one speaking for this because i did the vr game before but it means that i know all the limitations damn it yeah well that's the thing this maybe it's going to happen in 20 years not uh right now yeah the tax definitely not there unfortunately it's more of a like there's so much stuff that can be improved and we are not able to do it because the cost would be horrendous like the current headsets that are out there they're great they're like such a step up from what was there in the 90s but still if we want to go really further they would be costing ten thousands not not like

the price that facebook is pretty much undercutting currently when they're selling the quest uh oculus headsets so we'll see but it's like a steep cost already so my my two sense here is that i'm still betting more on something like epic or some other company that takes this kind of a crusade to create the metaverse well of course i think with uh unreal engine five that's because this makes all the sense and they they what they raised like 2 billion because that cost and everything and even the whole article and all information from they're saying they're pretty much symbolizing the ioi industries from ready player one the bad guys to try to take over the metaverse yeah and like when i saw the headline i really thought it was a joke and then i read in the articles like oh no a spokesperson confirmed it's 47 and a half plus like and then after like you need to pay your taxes yeah and then i'm just

like so people need to buy the headset and then the creators also need a headset and then like they're going to be taken to the cleaners like why would you want to encourage like a metaverse where you give the creators the least amount like you want to encourage a newly fledging metaverse to be as big as possible you don't do that by taxing the living [ __ ] out of the craters like bro zak you're gonna [ __ ] the company bro like no you know the 10 10 billion investment that is being burned out on vr have to return somewhere yeah we'll see yeah it's still less than roblox roblox yeah which we checked it uh it's 27th of april that facebook announces their quarterly result for first quarter this year we'll be definitely watching what happened there we will be watching so yeah oh my god there they will right there

[Laughter] yeah let's continue yeah man so uh your favorite piranha states or second favorite probably right now actually but you know the traditional favorite piranha state north korea basically has this state-sponsored hacking group called lazarus group which now the us says has been linked to the 600 million dollar axi infinity crypto heist which means that north korean hackers were behind the biggest highest crypto heist of a crypto game to date and man like this is just a gift that keeps on coming with the news last week that they raised another 150 million to pay back the users and then this is just man like i you can't make this up what yeah i i i tell you like in one year or two years we'll find out it was an inside

drop not north korea but someone from inside just took six uh 600 million but it's nice to know that everyone now is playing axi just know you know you are supporting the dictator like you're literally founding the nuclear weapons program of north korea yeah amen because let me guess like part of the tokens haven't been sold yet so they're hold by north korean controlled wallets which means that if the crypto goes up in what like value that means that there will go up in value and earn more money which means that a16z and binance and all these people if they get more money so does the north korean state um ah there was an article about one guy um being in prison because uh he was presenting um really nice uh deck in north korea about how to avoid sanctions by uh using crypto yeah

using crypto now he's in prison uh in the u.s for five years yeah five years was he american or yes yep he he could be glad he only got five years because the original origin was almost 20. but yeah it's it's hard to kind of prove when you're like uh have photos of yourself uh with the board that says no sanctions smiley that you weren't teaching them how to pretty much bypass the sanctions but let's see i think most of the funds are still in the wallet so the jury is still on this like how they will actually kind of spend it move it or whatever do with it but yeah i guess this story will still bear some more control oh yeah of course there will be so so much speculation uh in the in the next next months and like i don't even know what else to say to that news it's just like

yeah then we have uh a new upcoming ar game from niantic about breeding unique creatures which is called peridot whatever that means so they are coming with this this game into the soft launch next month after the success of pokemon then they have they have picked me no idea if that's successful or not but i didn't i haven't had a chance to play it and then harry potter which already got camped yeah so i like that am i the only one who thinks that basically nantec like they tried celestia didn't work harry potter didn't work like it's only pokemon right one one note the harry potter game was if i understood correctly just on their infrastructure corporation it was mainly warning bros yeah yeah they yeah warner bros partnered with niantic about the infrastructure and then they launched

the game because they have the notes and mapped earth and everything that you use for these games to work yeah but they were working on carcassonne right or what was what the [ __ ] yeah like soldiers of catan or whatever was the game or something there's like multitudes of these geolocation games that are dying and nobody is noticing those like as i said the only one that i notice is the japanese one with like thousands ltv that nobody talks about that's making it because nobody knows about it nobody knows about it you're making japan you're big in japan bro 50 million a month man or some some ridiculous number nobody cares nobody cares it's japan live uh leave here do it play pokemon i'll pick one remote talk to us about this new game what do you think what's your take on it um i'm kind of puzzled to be honest because uh i haven't seen anything new and this whole concept of like you having some kind of a creature

going with you or catching in the wild or whatever it seems to me like pokemon itself so and without the ip that we all cherish so that's the problem the only thing that works there yeah of course because it's it's matches pokemon that's the thing it matches the team the mechanics everything that's the thing and everybody's story as well yeah of course but for this this thing if they cannot i i i think like this whole genre needs to have some kind of disruption revolution idea or something probably within the technology itself like like the technology was the thing that brought it here in the first place like we all remember it was based on that like april first google video that they did like whatever four years because before pokemon go went out but it was actually the technology of it that they had that previous game um yes so they they already built it they know how to do it and they just let pokemon team on it and improved it so it was a really really big bump because as

you see here within the cooperation of uh warner bros and harry potter even warner bros wasn't building himself they just took it from niantic as a cooperation because it's like not niantic come on sorry anyway i hate when you're i'm hard i'm hard i'm hard to pronounce it as well but but the thing is it's like it's a similar leap like a clash royale game where they did the synchronous multiplayer so well because it's a technological leap so i think in order to progress in this genre we again need something similar not like more of the same because i don't think more of the same will work here yeah i agree or you know what they are doing work there the genre mastery yeah the genre master is great but if if your genre master in your whole genre is pretty much one game where's the genre yeah they're one hit wonder so far they haven't proved that they can make a second game as like good as their first one because they have pokemon like even if you slap digimon on it it's nowhere near as big ip as pokemon

yeah the thing is how they yeah how they can innovate is they need to find a different game ip and different mechanics rather than just uh collecting creatures and breeding them yeah any ideas well i hate working really good no any any ideas what would work really well here blockchain yeah slap web 3 and then build uh geo gel location that's a lot of damage yeah wow nice i don't know like we need some kind of new technology there definitely like i'm i'm guessing in order to make a blockchain technology of course it's going great it is let's let's not go there let's not go there because uh you're here the crypto yeah but skeptic but overall like my take here is that i don't think so this will be bigger than pokemon go definitely no no chance yeah i don't think so it will be even one tenth

obviously yes that's that's my my current current feeling that i have for this maybe maybe it's not like never going to leave the soft launch it's going to get killed very soon it's going to get katanned oh very nice okay i love it yeah but like you know cheering for the thing here that like hopefully nanty can do something with it but uh the thing is it's just like it's super hard it's super hard if you try more of the same like bottom line is like why would i play this new game when i can play with my favorite bulbasaur and like you know and grow into a venusaur like i'm not going to go into a new universe like this universe was with me since childhood like yes and the pokemon go game is still going super strong don't get me wrong it's a great game great game and they make a [ __ ] ton of money yeah exactly what's uh what's another amazing game in ip

your childhood ip is getting converted okay so there's the sonic the hedgehog cooperation with roblox specifically through company called gamefam that specializes only in making roblox games on the roblox platform and on april 14 which means from yesterday players will be able to use their favorite sonic the hedgehog to play through sonic speed simulator if i read this correctly for free of course and then there's some kind of merchandising with the possibility to acquire sonic themed items for your avatar on roblox and all the usual cooperation nonsense kudos to play ventures they invested in game fam pretty fast pretty fast a long time ago uh nice and uh well yeah i think the company is pretty much the product of consolidation of the whole roblox platform in a way that you know these days it's not anymore like kids making viral hits or whatever it's

pretty much specialized companies that are i think they said that they have like 50 or 100 men team already yeah yeah so it's it's it's a completely different game but they are doing this for a long time already you know i remember um last year i think or or a year before even uh there's some kind of uh interview with the the game fam um yeah yeah yeah nice that's interesting but uh it suits well again sonic is a good ip for the match of the roblox player base so like from that point on the moon it seems seems like isn't it is it that's the question i wanted to ask that as well yeah i have never played a sonic mobile game this is and i used to research it that the exit exists you want to create new new audience in your ip and you want to have kids where do you find them in roblox or uh or i'm not talking about or in fortnight fortnite i'm not talking about you know

people like us who grew up with the ips that some of us did some of us never heard of it but actually crea because these games like the japanese ones they never change they are still the same and sonic is pretty massive these days when they have the second movie this year so why not why don't the audience you know okay excess makes sense so what do we have there yeah left banging on cd projekt red i'll let you take that one as well remo this is your favorite okay so cd projekt red everyone's favorite uh developer of cyberpunk everyone's favorite especially after that game anyway they released their annual sales numbers which seems they generated 207 million in revenue uh that's of course decreased 63 year-over-year for the previous year but that's to be expected because this company is mostly premium

based which means that the year that they release their their game they make big and then they make less which is normal cycle within the premium companies uh by comparison uh the premium financials for the uh they actually release cyberpunk it was million uh regarding the performance of cyberpunk they said that they already sold 18 million copies uh to date which is massively big even though it seems from a distance the game was a flop at the time of release uh i i may add that they already released a really really really heavy patch 1.5 which pretty much overhauled the whole like everything you still haven't played that one right not yet i'm waiting for actual content to be released not just fixes because this is actual content the game is full the game is ready what the [ __ ] are you waiting for but they will be adding more contact into it which three was best when you had the two date expansions in it feature three

may this is the flop man every person i've spoken to who's actually played the game i'm not one of them they've said don't buy it it's buggy [ __ ] why i play the game in in well anymore as soon as it it was launched and i i i never encountered a bug [ __ ] you guys like no everyone has like a hundred thousand euro like computer to play everything on my [ __ ] yeah most most of the bugs are consoles of course that's why they were taken down the playstation store in the first place i really enjoyed the game i'm not sure like what you were talking about but you're a casual casual pc gamer really yeah really because the game in that stage could be played without spending one point in the whole [ __ ] skill tree man oh whoa whoa whoa mister one point in the skill tree it was easy easy i'm confused do i play do i play the game or not sure wait wait for the expansion yeah so you know the game was launched when was the game launched

two years ago one year ago i think it's 20 20 december or something like that 20 there's december 2020 so it's april 2022 you have the game for one and a half years you never played it how long you're going to wait another half a year and then what then play yeah of course why not it it will wait for your single player content man of course but you know what you can do play it when it's launched and then replay when you know you have the new content because you already for sure i already forgot everything that happened in the game that's why you're casual [Laughter] how does it compare to like a gta like five right if you're honest okay have you played gta 5 of course when i had no idea last year maybe last year maybe yeah uh last thing that i want to add of course they

announced already witcher 4 for sure yeah which which we will see probably in 2027 or something yeah 28 or 30. anything come out what will come out first witcher or uh the new gta game um that's a tough one and i think the new gta game is already kind of some some info was already taught about that if i get it no they admitted that they're working on the same game yeah yeah but these games makes like takes so much time to make like these are open worlds and and you don't build them as like you know you release them and then you move on you then continue to work on that game for like additional five to ten years anyway and the gta also has that online element that goes pretty well for them so because even even cyberpunk was was at one point uh promising that they would be having multiplayer within it and there would be like a separate game that would be multiplayer yeah you don't know because you don't read the news that much of course i don't read why would i

do that but people were expecting it to turn into something like the gta online experience it didn't happen because you know they have their hands full with fixing the game then actually making additional content for it do you think it will ever happen afterwards maybe don't know i i think you need to revive the game in the first place so either like relaunch it for like i know which which got delayed again for the next gen release again the witcher 3 the overhaul maybe they will release cyberpunk with some kind of new content when new consoles hidden so to kind of create that platform that they can like you know establish a base to build build on but don't know like it's hard it's really hard we like to kind of do some predictions here okay let's uh let's take a little break from our discussion uh our friends from addictive have something to share with you guys yeah okay we're back let's let's discuss the the conference guide

so what happened during the the covet in terms of conferences offline conferences well offline conference obviously offline do you call online conferences uh conferences just you know you you miss all the all the fun afterwards yeah the question is how how did these fare well like did did you went on any or like what do you think of the model itself so the thing is i was a i was speaking on like multiple of all these like online events and well it wasn't conferences it was very different experience i always enjoyed the feedback from the audience uh and you know now i'm i was only talking to my uh well the monitor is like you know i was like showing the the show reel and all the funny creatives and usually people laughed during the real-time conferences face-to-face conferences and i was like okay so what do you

what do what do they think about these these crazies i have no idea and they did did you were speaking in real time yeah i was a real time and also there was uh some conference that was that were um pre-recorded as well yeah i also did my mine two gtc's pre-recorded yeah like the like the recording is going and people are already talking in the chat so you you talk with them because it's good you're supposed to answer that question of course and it's great to at least have some kind of human contact there yeah yeah that's true but other than that it's all pre-recorded and it's like yeah like i never felt like the buzz of you know the gdc that i'm used to that you know and everything around it i had a talk at gdc about global launching mobile games there were like 800 150 people maybe and 50 of those gave me like one star rating

because they're all the indies a triple a console pc uh developers and i said oh well this is [ __ ] this is not relevant to any of what we do i was like yeah [ __ ] seriously so why why would you attend a a talk which says how to like how to global launch a mobile game or something like that oh well the art of global launching a mobile game like ah so uh i did enjoy and i'm really proud that i achieved this in my life but man off the bucket list yeah yeah yeah exactly i checked it off my bike at least the the istanbul event was way better it was way better and i think this was even like more valuable than the gdc talk because the people actually cared it was really relevant so uh yeah i think i think like i had a conversation i'm not going to name who

it is but this person they organize a conference and i spoke to this person at the height of 2020 like end of 2020 and i was just like hey how's this online going i know you've done a couple of online stuff now like how's it been in there like oh best thing ever it's great you get to save on all the costs and then like it's just like running down like why it's so good that you're doing these online ask the same person about like four months ago i was like oh you're finally like we're finally in the back live again he's like oh my god thank god we're running on like fumes and like oh my god we couldn't make ends meet and thank god like one more year we would have died all right so the online form wasn't as good he's like no no no no way and that's just the truth like conferences need to be live and that's how they make their money we want to go because it's fun and like come on like online conferences no like how else are we going to find out if people laugh at mates johnny sins goddamn creatives

virtually that's very true but you know that's why we always start this podcast that this is 4 a.m conference i was almost i almost said conversion again 4 a.m conference uh discussion because every time you are at the conference and you are in a bar with all like loud music obviously but all all the all the fun stuff and everything is actually happening after the conference not during the talks because let's you know admit that uh after nine years or ten years in the in the industry you already heard everything basically i don't want to sound arrogant but that's true then you know you need to meet people you need to meet people afterwards and then uh discuss like okay so what are you doing what's working for you what's not working and share the knowledge which is happening at 4am yeah usually yeah i've learned more about mobile ads and mobile ad

monetization in an evening in las vegas than i have like maybe working for a mobile game for like half a year like that's just the truth like that's where you find out all the gossip all the juicy details and all like the screw-ups and how to avoid them it's just yeah it's super valuable yeah i think i would pretty much put the talks into like three categories one would be like the one that you can like you want to watch because there's some kind of useful information but you can watching on the recording why wait you never watch the recording man you never do that sometimes you are the only you all you are the only person who does that i think you need to you need to if if you doing what i do you need to then the other one is that you have these kind of show off talks like uh for instance epic showing their new tag like stuff like that you want to see it for the show because you know you have like like like magnificent yeah the trick they did when they were throwing their real-time mapping where there was an actress hidden behind the

there on the stage and then they just like show over that it's all real time and stuff like that that's really great but it's more of a show off so you go for the show and then you have these usually use cases they are talking about the successes of something that everybody wants to attend like pokemon go at the talk during that year or supercell had that talk about crash royale that you want to attend so i would just put again this is more of like everybody will be talking about that talk that evening so that's why you want to see it but other than that like there's no other thing and you should just go to the parties and get all the chatter for everyone but it depends on the the seniority of the yeah like when you start in the industry first you try to attend the lectures and learn as much as possible then after two years you discovered that there's pretty much sixty percent of stuff all over again yeah there's no actual knowledge to be shared like most of the times there's no actual numbers use cases or like

practical stuff half of it is a hidden advertisement uh in the worst case it's yeah paid lectures are the the worst yeah yeah and then when you are pretty much getting into it and starting to see more of those familiar faces you actually start to hang out with those familiar faces and then you get the real information yeah and this takes around three years well even more man even more but for me it took at least like five and uh yeah i was actively like presenting uh already for some some years when uh this actually panned out guys it's how the three of us met we better ignore the game very true yeah yeah i'm not sure very sure but not with the echo though right um i think i met felix sometime before but isn't uh you know no that's [ __ ] because like the nordic game i was there i'd only been working in the industry for like a couple of months or something well we met with felix in nordic game

but uh i'm not sure two of you guys where you actually met now we met somewhere different like either krakow or some other like locals oh yeah maybe maybe it was digital dragons yeah or in berlin somewhere or in treasure definitely not there for you know that's not true yeah anyway but like it's quite interesting also with the conferences having been like in the start of my career on like the vendor side it's like the only place you can actually meet people to actually sell something to because you know right now like doing admon i get maybe 10 to 15 incoming emails every week and i'm not gonna answer any of them like that's the truth like honestly like like when i get an email saying like oh yeah special discount 100k for in like putting in my sdk in your game i'm like no i'm not trusting that and it's the only way really you can speak to someone and actually get anything done and yeah yeah that's true well i just uh well

received one interesting uh message that was so funny hey mate uh i love what you're doing at uh lancia is not me uh i can help you acquire some mobile paying users oh thank you very much man uh well i wasn't uh making fun of of uh this guy but it was really like okay i didn't know you're a mobile app as well much i don't know yeah me neither me neither yeah isn't this the only thing only thing left for these guys to kind of just must bombard linkedin and and just you know wait for someone to still have the the online conferences and and it's very true that uh during the online conferences uh like you can't approach so many people like you you do during the real uh conferences from the vendor side i mean i mean all right well uh the the the deconflict of one conference

in in istanbul was amazing it was after what first conference face to face for me after what like two years oh i enjoyed that so much so i definitely want to get back definitely want to get back could i ask both of you actually to list uh like the top three conferences you think in terms of content where it's good if you work in gaming to actually attend if you want to work in mobile gaming maybe one for game design and one for ua well for ua it's uh well mau 100 it's uh mobile mobile apps unlocked in las vegas and i was there what four times three time speaker obviously there you go i really enjoyed that uh but it's actually really like mobile marketing ua retention crm everything that's the yeah that's the conference where you want to be um from game design perspective i would say gdc is really i want to say like don't say gdc please

because there's so much like quality info there that you can directly ask to people like i was able to you know ask like questions supercell game lead and stuff like that you don't have to don't get that so that's one of the thing and then of course like anything finland based in helsinki supercell even have their own conference that they used to have the what was it mobile one or something one forgot the name of it but they they had there where they had like their talks which are super super kind of technical so and you can you get to hang out so any kind of what does it like pocket gamer or whatever kind of happens in helsinki yeah gamer was good when it was face to face online to face no i'm sorry guys but the content was so shitty no no no it needs to be face to face because you get to hang out with these guys not that you you know look at the lectures they don't even have the lectures there supercell i don't think so yeah they just go to gdc if they need to yeah

and also during the gdc the you know the the nordius breakfast every year that they uh organized that was amazing i met also timur from supercell there and others other guys from from the industry there so it was really like really interesting uh i thing that was going on for every year every every year that is yeah that's uh those side events during the gdc that's where the the actual knowledge is magic magic happens yeah i'd say from an admon perspective probably games forum like it's like a conference specifically for everything related to ad monetization super good but it's very specific like it yeah yeah of course yeah like yeah rimu wouldn't have a good time going there at all by the way is there a nice expo at least yeah by the way expo no expo okay it doesn't have a couple yeah oh okay for me i usually enjoy talking and having presentations not on the marketing conferences or ua related

conferences but uh conferences like digital dragons um cheating well dc not that much but um pocket gamer maybe so where they're like more producers game designers and not like ua people developers more than yeah more developers because ua people are like ah that's [ __ ] i already know everything he has to say but when you talk yeah yeah well i know i know what i'm talking about but actually if you if you talk to the producers game designers they yeah they say ah okay this is really interesting um okay so our ua team doesn't know that but but if you talk to the 18 they will say oh yeah we'll know we know everything so it's always better to talk to to the different departments that's uh that's that's actually at least like my experience and i really enjoyed way more that the conference is oriented for the other departments all right so we all have said which

conference we like the most but if you like something you also have to hate something so which confidence do you hate the most um yeah hey come on now what was the the worst it's easy guys come on i hate gamescom every year oh yeah okay oh but not gamescom not gamescom but the dev com that was like that was that was terrible because that well usually like back in days when there was a gamescom it was gdc in cologne but then they canceled it in europe which was really unfortunate but what what can we do then there was like nothing happening alongside gamescom and they they brought the devcom which is total [ __ ] but okay gamescom what do you mean i mean it's cologne which is almost like a dead city but what can you do what can you do but it's a consumer conference yeah exactly

it's a very different type of you go there for the fun like the actual fun no no you know what what he does always like he always walks around and tried to find anime characters and these like [ __ ] statues huge tits and whatever else like man that was so amazing when you're just walking around the and say i had so much fun they have so much good merchandising there man i'm gonna i'm gonna go this year but like what i think i'm gonna do is just not like try to go to the venue no the best it's gonna do the whole day man there's nothing to do the venue is good i didn't think that's true yeah blizzard i think they have their official show set up there always with like new stuff and merch and stuff like that but anyway like you meet people and you don't just talk about that much industry stuff there definitely like you don't want to do that in gamescom gamescom is more about different things usually well but on the other hand everybody is in in town because well you have gdc in in san francisco then you

have gamescom in in cologne so everybody travels there so you can actually meet a lot of uh good old faces yes second day like after party at the marriott hotel bar like that's where you meet every c level every european gaming company from here to north america yeah that's what i want to say about the marriott after after yeah 2 a.m always packed but they don't even let you run this astonishing astonishing net worth in that room oh yeah yeah very true all right so i can't get you guys on the record saying one conference you guys don't like come on oh well i i really didn't like the the pgc conference online once that was really that was really well terrible quality sorry guys but that's true i don't know like on my side like maybe even pgc something that's not not that organized like even maybe the london one like for me doesn't really cut it to be honest not that many people that go there

oh really whoa i would never say that i would say the opposite like the main events you talk to different people man because you're more in the vendor side you know the developer side well well there you have it folks [Laughter] yeah i think so ah man again looking forward to to be back and uh maybe we'll see each other again uh while during the gamescom maybe maybe in the venue [Laughter] yeah all right so i think that's uh that's it right uh for today yeah this is a light one uh but still thank you very much guys and uh see you see you next week yeah see you next week uh yeah see you and uh all right bye [Music]