SWATTING Around with Ubisoft | Roundtable News | Episode 242

[Music] what's up everybody welcome to another episode of game dev unchained the number one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof brandon pham and back at it again once a month with a roundtable news episode where game devs sit around the campfire virtual campfire of course and talk about the latest and recent game news related to game deaths with my special second unofficial host you got to earn that title ray ray graham how you doing ray hey what's happening how you doing all right uh gave you the wrong background there so no one can see [Laughter] a ray uh as kind of tradition i just want to see how you're doing man another month of pandemic i know people are tired of

hearing me telling them how terrible things are but uh how are things i mean the light is at the end of the tunnel right yeah two vaccines in vaccines and stuff so maybe by by may or june of next year things might be back to normal hopefully maybe who knows but yeah it sucks it sucks also like you know we're coming up on the holidays and and i'm choosing to stay away from my family for the for a holiday so that that also [ __ ] really sucks yeah so uh yeah but you know i'm gonna take some time off still and try to relax but yeah you know yeah we're uh we're definitely on this side making some hard decisions ourselves um we made a judgment call uh took a look around made some judging and said that you people aren't taking this seriously enough we

can't do this i i even asked like hey if you guys want to plan ahead and do thanksgiving together you just you know two weeks let's get tested get quarantined you know uh treat it seriously and then two weeks later we get tests again and it's better than nothing and we'll take the risk and we'll hang out but none of them fall follow through so what we're doing immediate families only none of them wanted to subject themselves to some testimony i guess they didn't like a supporting team they didn't like us enough i mean we did we did do like a little big bear cabin trip a few weeks ago and we all got tested i got tested i shoved that thing up in my nose um [Music] it was i i guess i guess i had a i wouldn't say a gag reflex because it's up my nose but i have like the sneezing like imagine yeah i didn't know that about myself where i just have this uncontrollable sneezing because i was like uh i poked it up because

you have to do a two nose right and i had to do like a drive through i do it myself at first and i heard those are not as accurate but i i really shut it up there okay and after the instruction i put it up in my right nose you know just slowly approaching up there and trying to touch my brain with it and i sneeze immediately and then of course you know because of my reaction the thing fell out of my nose and then you know i didn't get it up there high enough i stuck it back in and twisted it sneezed again and then put it on the other one and it was uncontrollable sneeze i don't i know how people do it with nurses helping them be because they'll be sneezing all over the place i mean we don't need to hear about this i'm just telling the people out there that testing i got a free uh i i went to an uh like uh uh uh cvs got it for free uh no no hassle and whatsoever they just needed the name and they just i guess for californians

they just send it to the government and they pay for it i did pay a cent so testing is very available now versus months ago and i do feel like it's kind of dumb that families can't get their [ __ ] together to be quarantined buddies you know me like really be pick a group and and stick with it i mean it's just it's just better to just not even bother you know what i mean like like like i don't need to be around people that much where i'm gonna like let everybody test and quarantine for two weeks and then i and then they have to quarantine for two weeks and i i don't even know if they didn't quarantine or not i have no idea and like nah man okay i can't i can't well i guess that's the difference i mean we we love our family ray enough to like want to hang with them after eight months uh i would say that cabin trip wasn't really for me for me my family i gotta get on the plane yeah so you i'm not getting on nope oh yeah you're going too far yeah we're like 15 minutes away so yeah yeah we're not so bad anyways

um yeah well glad well it's sad to hear that but yeah in california it has been jumping 40 like pretty crazy and uh it's better uh to just hold out a little longer if you're already holding out and that's kind of like my thinking process especially in your especially your neck of the woods has been going kind of crazy orange county is kind of dumb yeah definitely well bay area is pretty bad too you guys know yeah it was red i saw some i saw some map it was like la orange county area was just bananas basically a big swath of color from down here to up there really all california seems to i think as soon as the vaccine needs came out people were just full abandonment without caring um which is never good but uh anyways uh this is the roundtable news episode uh as always our opinion reflects our own and uh let's get right to it man [Music]

public announcement i i actually want to ask you about this because we do have a lot of game devs out there obviously we've only mentioned this once in a while you're over there at unity i saw like a special initiative actually with you guys with 80 000 devs like can you explain that a bit because even i was interested because you guys are going through programming as well right being a programmer yourself yeah yeah like i wouldn't even i can't really do it that much justice right but okay i'll post some facts up here too on the blog on the blog though it's basically what they're announcing are these career pathways uh so the folks that want to get like kind of want to go down the path of like saying being a unity programmer right um can take a course that's pretty long and that of course will prepare them to become uh certified and uh and it's gonna be paid for by the social impact unity social impact org

and and it's free and you know you can just start you know there's links to to the learning material um there's one called unity essentials which is just one or two weeks for like real basic community stuff and then there's one uh junior programmer which is uh three to four months of 60 hours of guided learning right nice um so and then that will kind of set you up so that you can also become a certified uni developer and this is available to the first eighty first first first person well yeah it says like it says that the goal is they want to reach 80 000 people but i don't think there is a limit okay right um at least not from what i can see but it's just like yeah you just click on the link do you program the link and then it's in the blog there um and you go straight there it's really cool it sounds like it's a really cool thing you know like i'm all

about um education and getting more uh educational material out there one of the reasons why i work at unity is because i think unity is a very easy way of getting into game dev and learning game dev right it's a yeah it's an awesome initiative i saw that and i saw them using the d word diversity as part of the initiative so it's definitely a a great opportunity for anybody who wants to learn something while pandemic like even my my kid is 10 i just threw threw it at him for the first time today because he's really getting into i'm at that place where i'm buying copies of two games now for myself and him to play together and i threw it out i was like you want to start learning games he's like yeah he was super interested so and this kind of popped in today so i was like actually a pretty cool way to get them started and skip like you know college tuition i don't know and it's all about it's just all about removing

or lowering the barrier to entry you know what i mean and really kind of opening the door for people to um to get into game like it's it's has not been any easier than it is these days yeah i think it's fantastic yeah and some phones just need to and it's free it's free it's awesome with it yeah well i wanna on behalf of the gamedev community i think it's a great opportunity again we're not not at least this episode we're sponsored by unity we've been sponsored by unity before but uh you know i'm a big big fan of free education so uh go out there go seek it out guys i'll drop it on this week's episode's link so you can follow up uh i be i think it's already opened right uh yeah this is day one right thanks links are active you can you can click on them perfect awesome cool uh with that being cast aside i think we kind of have to address the elephant in

the room as well which is the big ps5 although neither of us really tried getting one uh i think it's worth mentioning uh have you heard any grave review like general [Music] it's a good thing i'm recording it any general consensus uh is the next gen or now this gen meeting up to the expectations i mean um i try to get one but you know walmart walmart did not allow me to get one yeah they they told me to go fly kite but no but i see people playing uh spider-man and uh astros playing with demon souls that's pretty much what i'm seeing and it's looking it's looking nice uh you know you see the reviews of spider-man's uh real-time ray racing uh compared to

having it on versus having it off um i personally think turning it off and getting 60 frames a second is a worthy trade-off but but even with it on it it's a good looking game you know and it's looking pretty good on ps5 so it's right now it's looking great it's just there's just not a whole lot of titles like i think yeah i think having spider-man and demon souls is going to help straight out the gate uh microsoft doesn't really have something that's comparable um but but it's looking good cool man yeah i think uh i skipped the ps4 console version uh so there's a lot of ps4 games that i'm looking towards playing on on this gen on ps5 uh when i do get it probably next year i'm not in a rush i don't know how you skip the ps4 i don't even under that does not compute uh i got two kids to feed uh you get a mortgage how's computing now i don't know i

was confused i've always been pc first and i felt like uh aside from the sony exclusive which are a lot less there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of good ones for sure good game the last of us you know the uh even this recent year there was a lot of one a good one so i events my game here yeah so i'm looking forward to trying all that out so i'm not i'm not in rush for any new ps5 games but uh it looks like i won't get my hands on one until until after the year so it's okay i mean at least horizon zero dawn went on to pc and i you know i bought that i just haven't played it yet uh aside from that though um yeah i've been hearing good reviews i've been hearing uh the machines a lot quieter i've been hearing uh the controller has surprisingly really cool features with the rumble feedback with some resistance in the trigger uh which they don't really uh

brag about but it's been really crazy how uh basically the game control how the trigger plays a factor in part of the game design where it actually if even you're like as strong as i am right all right not to not to brag but i bench a lot right but like like trigger is so hard that you can even push it down if the the game doesn't allow you to so there's some kind of uh some new type of suspension that they got on there that they never really talk about which is a nice cool surprise um but yeah i think at least my friends who've been playing with it over the last couple of days have been pretty happy with it uh no complaint really actually flipped my expectations i mean if you guys go back round table news since the beginning year i was really doubting that it'll do as well as it did i was completely surprised how the pandemic didn't really

slow people down shopping which makes me even oh the pandemic i think the pandemics slow down the availability of the console sure the fact that you can't get one is i think the pandemic has didn't think that was gonna be the problem i thought it was gonna be people buying it yeah i thought it was gonna be a lot worse people's tired people need to escape right you know well i guess the economy is all right uh for people to go out there and just drop half half a thousand dollars on college i think i think the ones the ones that would buy a console probably have jobs in the first place that can weather the pandemic you see that gamers are well off is what you're saying i'm saying i'm saying i'm saying the ones that would be first day in line by a console or whatever we'll always find the money you should have yeah nerds always have the money for sure uh so speaking of which i i we have to kind of

hark back to uh to what's up with fortnite and you know the iphone in android wars um although there's not really an update with apple i think apple and epic really hates each other at this point and they're not backing down so that story is still they hate each other but android uh let me pull this up real quick and droid12 google just announced said that it's gonna provide options for third-party app stores uh which uh i'm pulling up on my screen so that i am backing up my claim but they are planning for this uh to happen sometime uh very soon like you're even in the beginning of the next year and stuff the pretty much the next android update this uh well that's not what i'm reading right like you're not features yeah the other features will make it even easier for people to use others right other devices you still got to pay

a fee while being careful not to compromise the safety measures android has in place so i think it's still i think it's like uh an availability that's always been available for android but they're just making it more a little bit more pronounced um [Music] i think it's the right stance i uh they're not as combative as it seems like apple is with epic games or third parties apps basically which you know google has always been the anti-apple store well it should be that's how they position themselves like everybody that doesn't have an apple is using our our own if you read further too though it says google isn't by contrast relaxing its grip on the in-app payments from play store apps right company says that all developers selling digital goods in their apps are required to use google play's billing system

as it should i think there's that's that's one of the things that your boy um didn't want to do right so that's that's one of the that's one of the things he's like why i want to use my own payment system [Music] honestly by this time uh this kind of leads into another thing that i just saw too uh what was it let me pull that up there's a new tech that they're introducing and i mean fortnite had a great run ran they're still selling millions and they're great every game has its era right i do feel like fortnite uh like i see it with my own child right him and his friends are super that's their first major game right they were playing especially through the spin demi they play the [ __ ] out of it but now they are finally getting bored of it and discovering other games like rocket league which is a smart move by epic for buying it right you know all the other free games valorance

yeah roblox he started roblox he still plays it once in a while but he's starting to mature which which i see a great uh evolution of gamers right they start with the small games and i'm seeing him through my own child that he's advancing to more complicate now he's playing valor in overwatch right he started with fortnite very simple so that's within the span of the last four or five months so uh uh i do see that transition from people playing fortnite all the time to playing other games i'm not saying fortnite is going anywhere anytime soon but you know they're doing as best as they can to kind of keep the interest going i see this cool tech it's kind of like the apple front yard of their uh ai not ai driven but like um a facial recognition driven from the player which is kind of creepy but they're using this type of tech uh for upcoming i think they just bought it let me read this right

newly acquired hypersense yeah so epic just bought hypersense that specializes in expressive digital avatars like honestly is it really crazy and i want to kind of bring this up and it's not something i've read it's speculation guys wouldn't epic be the perfect game company to come out with gamer focus phone you don't think like a little bit elevated triple a driven like they're kind of bullying everyone else you still think they're gonna play by everybody's rules with all this i mean razer's stuff throwing around they just trying to make a phone yeah but it's a razor they make everything and they're very good at making random things let's not get wrong but like there is a little bit more weight when a company like epic which comes out with his phone has more weight for a phone than razer whose business it is to make hardware

honestly yeah maybe my kid doesn't know what a razor is but if my kid like even my kid knew about the epic versus apple thing i didn't say anything to him and you know god knows he doesn't watch my show so he's getting that from somewhere there is something to it um it's maybe it's nothing but i don't know i feel like all this stuff that they've been buying up so much lately has to be leading to something uh hardware focused uh i mean it's not impossible because valve kind of did that out of left field and they're finding success with their vive stuff right uh epic i feel like doesn't have as much money but they have a store right i feel like they're obviously always looking ahead of what's the next big thing with all this fortnite money to invest forward and knowing that fortnight eventually will

you know it hit it end and can't beat their main part of the business so they have to invest into hardware knowing full well that uh they don't have 100 control of their distribution right i don't know but i feel like everything that they're doing kind of is leading to that i like we we kind of speculated well let's just you speculated by this time that fortnite and apple would be making up and kissing i don't see that happening i see that they are forever enemies oh i did say did i say it by december i said because you said it by december you still feel that way though by by christmas time i mean there's two more weeks a couple more weeks yeah it's not that much man thanksgiving they're not going to change their mind yeah i feel like i i feel honestly for for someone like epic to kind of burn that bridge so publicly with the number one

filmmaker in the united states at least that they're not going to grovel they really meant to burn that bridge forever and are thinking of different ways to to capitalize i mean they had the funds right and uh i wouldn't be so opposed to a gamer focused phone at this point you don't think so oh my god so you're not a mobile gamer right i well i do play some games on my mobile phone and who makes the fastest gpu and cpu in mobile phones today right and the games run great yeah so like why why do i need a yet another phone for somebody who has never made it full before ever right it is a tough business how many people have failed microsoft have failed recently a few years back um google barely made it like even when we when i thought

their pixel phones were pretty successful it wasn't until recently where they're like finally gained some real grounds uh yeah and then there's a lot of chinese companies that kind of take the technology and make their own version well the uh what is it it's uh xiaomi xiaomi yeah just kind of overlapping good folks yeah really good funds yeah the asian companies are kind of killing with the phone so well i mean that's that's pretty much it on epic uh i just want to provide an update you know not much there but the android update even that is like a slow celebration really but not really like i don't think they like that deal either yeah i can't think that they are cool with both the company's response and really thought differently that's why i kind of feel like if not a gamer phone they're they're backing up something for distribution of their future games because you know fortnite's huge and rocket league would be

awesome i think on the phone if they can make that happen it's still still relevant um let's move on to the next topic so this is actually you know kind of uh kind of harking back to your your your your heyday uh working at 2k so this is an old topic sorta but this is a continuous of sports games and i've always felt like sport games like nba 2k and madden if for some reason they have a bad year they always have that trump card of making it free to play which will completely kill it uh i think um they're just holding that back is that what they're doing in your opinion with all these in-game abs that you can't skip i feel like you think that preparing for that [ __ ] because that's crazy right i mean i can't i understand fifa doesn't even do this it's already kind of it's not free to

play because you have to pay the 60 initially 70 dollars or whatever right but once you play the game like you might the my team mode and also the the the park the park mode are for all person all intents and purposes they're they're they're free to play micro transaction games at that point and that's where all the money is made that's where people spend all their time playing the park and and my team and and it is a free-to-play game at this point and then the thing about um unskippable ads um yeah i was hearing i was here it was actually a mistake it was actually like a bug or something that was making that was making the ads play more more frequently than they than they wished that they wished to uh but still yeah like i i think having ads in your like realize your game is starting to go down that that's the pretty slope but they've had ads in the game for a long time now already you know honestly if it was free to play i don't mind it like it makes it

feel like you're watching a game it looks like you're watching game right now anyways it looks pretty good right yeah um i think it's just the initial 70 dollars that bothers people where yeah you try to melt more money out of me after you already got the 70 dollars yeah honestly i i you know they're making good money obviously so they're going to keep doing that but i think they're going to make a lot more money if they make it free to play how many more players will they have and i think you know i think every i'm not sure yeah i think everybody that's going to play nba has bought nba you know and they buy it every year and they're and they're there and then they flood my park and they drop all of their money into my park like it just it's i don't know if making it free to play we would would expand the base much more i'm curious because you know there is a 2k online there is an nbc online that but it's it's uh it's pretty popular in china

so they do have a testimonial yeah so i don't know if it's available i don't think it's available in the states but it's definitely big in asia i know call of duty did that too there's a call of duty online only available in china and it was crazy um when we saw it internally like they had dragons and [ __ ] and it looked pretty cool it was well made and it's only available in china um in that market yeah so i these companies are always kind of doing this thing i'm surprised there hasn't been one of these companies doing over here globally like yeah like madden fifa uh you know they they have examples of these models working and i feel like sport games like rock league has been the only recent one where i felt was closest that went free to play and i i think it's doing really well for them um i mean yeah like i said they have the um they have the bits in there

right like i mean my team is a free to play game like it is you know as booster packs has the whole nine it's like ultimate team in um in fifa or madden right yeah and and my park there's a lot of free to play elements in in that as well and they have their own currency vc currency right so it's as far as i'm concerned the only thing it's it is free to play but you just have to pay 60 for it right like it's like once you buy it yeah i know i know but once you buy it it's a free to play game like in how it's designed right yeah yeah i'm i think they're just waiting for a flop to kind of turn that key but um this kind of goes back to our first topic with you know the new system coming out right um i was telling a friend earlier today actually where i was uh just looking at my hard drive and i was really considering uh deleting warzone because that [ __ ] was 200 gigs off my hard disk

and uh the next gen versions i have both a digital and hard disk version and i think the old school um smarter ones i got the harpist uh the the actual blu-ray version uh and a lot of people went for the digital version only to find out that uh these games are so huge that only three games can really fit at one time even with a terabyte and i think it's one of the biggest problems uh yeah but even if you buy a disc version you still like just like on ps4 you still got an install you still install it right so so i don't know if if what first you buy matters because it's still going to take up a whole bunch of space on your hard drive and lea i'm finding the same thing's true with pc games right like my pc games are approaching 80 80 to 100 gigs right um bass without all the dlc and all the nonsense that you have to download on top of that right

um warzone i almost installed warzone because i wanted to check it out and it was like 80 gigabyte download i was like nope i was like 80 gigabyte and then dude at one point it was 200 gigs for me did just with all the install packs i mean the the initial download was 80 and i'm just like nope oh it's not that important but this is that's what i mean man i i wanted to open this up topic up a bit because it's becoming i feel one of the biggest topics for both gamers and game developers i think game developers work better with limitations [Music] and now we're we're saying one terabyte go at it guys and i don't think that is the smartest thing to do uh because it as a gamer i hate it i don't like how my hard drive is only taken up by one game and i have to make decisions and the decision is not instantaneous i have to wait for like hours to delete and install a new game and uh and i think it deters me from

trying other big games or little games yeah well most people um but not most but i'm saying you can't actually get external storage right and on the new console at least on xbox right it allows you to uh use it you use it as a swap right where where it will back up the game to that and then the new game that you want to play will be in will be on the on the fast ssd right so you can uh you can play there and so you have this big you have a bigger external drive just for the storage of your games externally right uh and then and then uh i don't feel like solving the problem xbox says the external external uh slot for for the fast memory so you could buy an expansion card and then on the ps5 they have the uh another nvme uh slot for um another ssd right so so they're they're

you know like you can get more storage it's just gonna it's gonna cost you you know but is that i mean a hundred to three hundred dollars to get more storage right you know my camera's dying oh man they can't give you two terabytes of super super fast um nvme ssd right because that's about that's a 300 to 400 piece of hardware just by itself is that the step in the right direction now like deep there's obviously a limitation to that if you're asking someone to only the hardcore will go out to buy extra storage but most people will kind of bite the bullet and wait around or make a decision not to yeah install certain games if you're not the one to to you to have external storage and all that like i'm also going to argue that you're not the one to have a whole bunch of games really yeah yeah like the hardcore if you're not the hardcore

you're not going to buy every game well i think i i think it definitely deters people from trying new games or and then even buying new games right yeah i figured it's going to hurt us i mean it's hurting me now as a gamer like i'm making a executive decision now it's like do i want to keep warzone do i see myself playing this yeah you know next month do i want to sit there and reinstall that you know i'm making a decision of playing this forever or not but if you're talking on a pc you have way more options on the pc for for external and more storage that it's not even a it's not really an issue on pc it's an issue bro i have i do have four different you know ssds yeah right um and i have one terabyte dedicated to just games and [ __ ] one-fourth of it is taken up by one game and i don't like that it's like

what am i installing here i have a i have a three terabyte of a three terabyte like for games physical physical drive that i had all my games on and i finally upgraded to nvme and i got a two terabyte nvme uh where i have all the games on there i always have the games that uh the newer ones that i'm playing right now all installed on there um and it's like you know like i've probably eaten a gigabyte i'm sorry almost uh almost a terabyte if it's gone already with like three three or four or five games and stuff yeah that's ridiculous um but still you know like like i have enough storage in the machine where i can i can do the jungle if i need to right i still have a lot of free space yeah but that and and i have two more nvme slots that are available to put stuff into right so i could even pick it up the hardcore is the hardcore if we're trying to expand this yeah industry you know at least you know the the the big gains right people wanting to play

the big games and a lot of them right it's yeah although you know in a year there are three or four big games but there's many more big games and many more big games that are good that people should play yeah but i feel like this hard drive thing is becoming such an issue where it's like it's keeping people from playing games or playing a game long enough to get to the good part you know what i mean uh yeah i think i think tech will also solve some of this problem um one thing like one thing i want to say before i say that is cyberpunk 2077 is probably going to be an enormous ass game right yeah um but but but um tech i think is solving this problem right are they yes there's some major compression on ps5 there is there is a talk of like there is compression right that that gets so the files can get decompressed on the fly and stored into memory um rad rad game tools released you know um an article about

about their compression scheme right so they have uh they have a commercial scheme for textures which is one of the big things that take up a lot of space on disk uh so that they get like you know so you do the dxt compression of the textures but you can also compress it some more uh block block of block aware compression right and then and then the hardware itself uh can actually or there's software on the hardware itself that can actually decode that compression and and re-establish the texture through through decompression right so like there's there's tech that i'm sure and compression algorithms and things that people are working on to to shrink the size of what is on your actual disk uh and then it's the same size thing when it's in memory and running in your game uh but when it's on the disk it's compressed and there's a lot of talk of the new like with the new nvidia graphics cards and with the new md graphics cards if you have pcie 3.0 and the nvme drive and the right

cpu and and you use like microsoft direct storage and things can store straight from your ssd straight into graphics memory so the cpu doesn't have to interfere with that and that api also has built-in but also do some compression or decompression of data through that api right so this gym will be solved then this this issue i mean i did see someone saying i'm not saying it's going to solve it but i'm saying that that that tech can help at least reduce the the footprint of these things right um so we shall see how that turns out it is a topic that i'm trying to find a guest to kind of dedicate an episode to because it has been one of those uh hidden once that's been creeping up uh in everybody's personal experience but no one's really dedicating yeah i mean we've been any research on it yeah yeah we've been

compressing game day the for a long time right and it was before it was like oh how's this gonna fit on the disc right oh my god we have to yeah i know i think we were always really good on that but like i think i think the last gen to this gen it's been largely unchecked it still hasn't fit on the disk but it just turns out the disks are very large well to me i think to me it happened right when game developers figured that day one launch can be launched with an empty disk with a day one patch i think that was when the pandora's box was opened and we were we were left unchecked for a long time it felt like a long period where a lot of that [ __ ] was happening and yeah crazy texture sizes and [ __ ] well once you do the patch right they're not really beholden to the size of the actual physical media anymore yeah right so you could be a little bit

larger right but if you don't know but everybody hates but yeah but everybody hates it when you get a patch it's like download another gigs right like nobody wants to do that i think this is a win for game devs to not be restricted but a complete loss to gamers it's just insane um i don't know if there's a lot of gamers if they're getting bro if i have one terabytes one terabyte is a lot of disk space yeah you got three games that you're playing right and it's not i don't even know i think you're exaggerating that one but still um it's not for pc players we have options but i think because of this gen it being such a focus now that regular gamers are gonna have an issue where they're not gonna be able to easily swap or want to swap or add ssd cards onto their ps5 right they're gonna be

like what the [ __ ] uh i said two hours uh for a 200 gig download that i thought i bought on disk i guess that's for nothing they're gonna discover all these tricks that we've been pulling over their eyes and they're gonna it's gonna hit them all at once and i think uh people are already upset i think it's already been i think it's already been a problem on ps3 and xbox for a while yeah sorry not ps3 ps4 ps4 xbox one ps4 pro yeah yeah ps4 pro especially not even pro like pro is one terabyte it was the one before that the regular ps4 people were annoyed with the install day one install yeah so like it's like people already annoyed with that but like at the same time you want more fidelity you want 4k you want bigger textures like you want pvr like it's just going to get bigger that's fine man that's why you gotta put in the resources for the compression technology all the [ __ ] that you talked about sounds

like we need to throw more more programmers at that right make you crash more what yeah i think the thing is like there are compression techniques that people are using already and it's still you know like it there's a lot of content a lot of data right there's actually a good talk too by talking about spider-man and the work they did there to reduce their data sizes on this oh let's see i need to read that up so what was that on that was that gdc um is that on the rematch oh the last one then right the first it was yeah i was it was the last it was yeah it was about the first the first uh spider-man um it was a pretty good it was about all of their tech but a part of the talk talked about the the the storage the the file sizes on disk yeah it's coming a big problem man i'm gonna look that up and i'll i'll link it to you guys if i can find it oh ps5 only has let me look this up right

now 800 800 gigabytes nope not even less than that for for gameplay yeah this the disc is 800 gigabytes and then and then the like like a couple hundred of it goes away for the system or something like that yeah let me uh switch it up here so you guys can see it yeah all right now that that that i think is that i think is kind of crazy but i understand [Music] why that's a lot man so explain uh explain to the uh late i understand of course right oh you what you explained to the people but uh i i don't wanna this is your your your field sir professor you have the floor uh why exactly are there only about three hundred and fifty gigs of where does that let's get a lot into it it's 667 gigabytes yeah but like that means 350 gigs if it's a one-two

well actually 825 right so 200. yeah yeah i have no okay one i have no idea where 100 and some odd gates is going i have no idea right but i do know the reason why the disc i'm supposing the reason why the disc is small is because it's a super fast ssd that is faster than any ssd you can buy off the shelf currently um and i have a pretty fast ssd in my pc and that joint and that joint is expensive right and so like you want the price of the console to still be 500 bucks something that's something has to get so you think it's a poor man ssd then that says i'm saying it's a really really fast ssd but but you have to keep the cost down right and so the size about this the amount of memory or the storage that is on the ssd impacts the size it impacts the the cost right well i am seeing like the last 24 hours

it has been a lot about storage space so gamers are pausing uh murmur not an uproar yet but they are noticing like what the [ __ ] [Laughter] spider-man miles morales the ultimate launch edition is 105 gigabytes and demon souls is 66 gigabytes and black ops cold war is 133 gigabytes yeah i don't know those blu-ray discs can hold how much again the the latest one i think yeah i i can't remember but it's it's a lot it's a lot right i'll look that up right now and we're kind of dedicating this roundtable to this because i it is something i feel is gonna slow gamers down people are like the biggest sale the hook

has been how fast uh gains been able to load or not load at all right but in fact yeah but in fact all the loading is happening for installation that's the irony of that and it's [ __ ] one game at a time only um uh since i skipped last gen i'm imagining it's the same sitting there and waiting right it's nothing special 200 gigs of download is still 200 kids of download correct those consoles aren't doing anything special to speed that up no yeah if you have yes like no yeah your download is that's what you're downloading yeah but the compression that's what i say the compression of like what is actually stored on your on your disk uh that it helps you download speeds too because you could be downloading less right for the same amount of data if it had good compression um but yeah

good luck good luck i mean your friends aren't having some master formula you don't think this will be as far as i'm hearing things it seems like this is par for the course for this gen that's just the way it is deal with it so i just think yeah this thing games are gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger right and and uh i think one of the things that the console folks focused on was super fast ssds and really removing uh the loading times that's expensive and so in order to keep the cost down they they're they're skipping on the on the space you know what i mean okay uh i kind of want to brush over uh this topic um you're the toronto office right so this is the montreal office it sounds like it was a hoax but the ubisoft office uh reported a hostage

a potential scenario that turned out to be just a bad phone call uh you know there were people on the roofs people recognizing on twitter if there was ever a reason to not go back in the office uh i think this helps i wouldn't i would even say that if there's ever a reason why people are trash this is a good example of that right like like i think i think swatting an office for whatever reason yeah right is dumb right and not only is it dumb it's also dangerous very dangerous and it could get people hurt you know yeah yeah and so like and there's people there's people i know that work in that office too right and so like it's it's it's just really shitty for someone to do something did you know anyone that were at the office at the time they had to i'm sure i'm sure there's some people i know that were at the office

at the same time but i know some folks i do know were at home at the time because the office is not wasn't at 100 capacity yeah um but still like like just doing that just seems like why like find something better to do with your life right i always chalked us up to a department at the studio uh that had like a due date that they wanted to avoid and they just called this in just to avoid uh hitting that deadline i mean it might be a stretch it might not be but i feel like maybe in canada game studios are that available for regular people to swap people for i don't know i just find it hard that regular citizens will do this i mean there's a lot of recent news about ubisoft right one uh

and then there's a lot of um games a few games just came out watch dogs assassins and and assassins right and it could easily be some disgruntled person just being mad because it's it's cool to be bad and and doing a swat attack on the office right like that's that's that's very plausible right um and whoever it was it's it's just shameful shameful behavior it's crazy that people can get away with that it seems actually i feel less great about our technology at this point i feel like that's something that we should be pretty good at nailing people on since everyone's still monitored again well i don't need to give a [ __ ] i don't know if they're gonna if they caught them yet but i'm sure they will catch whoever it is they usually catch these people that do this stuff right i know

cool yeah let me see let me see uh if there's any update it's very watchdog-ish if there was ever a pa pr pr stunt you know yeah [Music] i mean this month yeah i mean last this this recent news of uh in the last month have been pretty calm given the uh sell out of the consoles and it finally launching very surprised by it still but you know logically thinking that people still had money to spend uh and was gonna spend on it anyways um i i do want to comment a bit from our last round table uh it was a pretty

i think it was a split decision i think i think a lot of listeners call well didn't call in but messaged and commented saying um they see the strength of both sides no i saw some comments saying that we both didn't know what the hell we were talking about so yeah yeah i didn't see that i only saw maybe one person said that i think the funny thing that was opposing me was the same argument that i felt a gamer would say that don't understand game dev uh or how entertainment licensing works i didn't see anything that really made me pause for rethinking my stance and that's probably because i'm stubborn but but i really still just want to end this episode with elise replying to some of those um there was a

lot of comment that were uh using my example saying like um you know how i use nike's as like uh a comparison right and people was like well you don't play with nike shoes you know and i just don't i just want to reiterate for me when i play games especially final fantasy right let's still find metal gear solid especially right to me that the experience of playing the game is as much as watching the game and kind of going through that linear experience and and unraveling the story right and i think that those type of games uh can't be discounted um and streaming have clearly shown that it destroys that element of surprise of playing the game because if one of your incentives to find out the story especially final fantasy the old final fantasy kind of walk you down my memory lane so if it's old for me it's super old for you

right where final fantasy 7 i remember playing through the games which were fun on its own but the graphics weren't there a lot of those games the graphics weren't that impressive to kind of keep you going but it wasn't until the cut scene where i was like super excited and that would kind of bridge the gap for me for getting through the gameplay to watch the cutscene to watch the story progress right i just feel that streaming destroys that uh simple as that and people who say it's not interactive therefore it's okay i i don't think that's true i think uh what makes games super cool is that it combines movie going experience it combines the enjoyment of music it combines story italian and it adds interactivity on top it's all of that and so i don't think you can discount any part of that because all that makes a game uh not just the interactive part and so that's that's my answer to that

so if you want to reply to any of your hater comments go for it but i think i hate on you enough where you don't need to you reply to pretty much whatever i said so you already you know man i don't care what people be saying [Laughter] i don't care either actually i kind of revel in the attention of hate oh cool you know maybe it's one of my one of the things i got to work through therapy but i actually like people challenging and debating thoughts that don't match their own i i like discussions so um i think that's one of the those that topic especially um apart from the hard drive storage topic that's been kind of in like in smaller circles and forums to debating the streaming thing has been pretty controversial because i i've seen that type of discussion everywhere um not covered enough but i do see these

circles kind of defending both sides which leads to me that we do need to have a bigger serious conversation where um we're not so divided on this and i'm i'm talking for both the gamers and game developers if there's enough people arguing for both sides there's it's obviously a system that's not working for all yeah i mean we we talked about this before right we said like you know game developers don't like it they can do d um dmca take down notices they actually can't do that yeah and the ones that do support the streamers that they are and it's it's becoming a whole thing and i don't know if there's really anything to do beyond that right if you don't want people to stream your game tell them please don't stream my game and most people won't and then if they still do do dmca and and keep it pushing was there a popular game that did that recently because i am looking for someone like that to come on the show and talk

about the experience yeah you've done that before no no no i'm saying i don't i don't i don't know if you can um the one the one company that i know that did that a lot was nintendo right 10 is tough yeah this would be hard to get on there's no other besides nintendo that you can think of i can't remember i i do know that there's some there might have been some people that said hey our game's a narrative game you could only stream the first hour but like i mean you could do a google search and try to find who those folks are man it might be worth getting gainer back on i use his game so much as like a uh example why streaming is bad i wonder what his thoughts on is it might be too unpopular that's the taboo thing that's happening is too unpopular to oppose streaming and say that um so now a lot of game developers are outspoken about what they feel about it which is where where i come in right i'll be that point but it is dangerous right it's kind of

crazy the backlash that people get for it's kind of like the uh this is funny right so recent lee someone we have a lot of new listeners that haven't caught up yet uh that listen from episode one and so they're getting to the point when we had the uh the the maker of adrift on um uh his name slipped my name sorry dude uh but he happened to be the guy who uh who worked at microsoft and um had that whole controversy saying that it's always connected and stuff and got fired over it right oh yeah yeah yeah he went on so we interviewed him a few years back not knowing that backstory and uh if he's still listening you know finally the truth comes out it's like we didn't know and so we did an interview without mentioning it and he actually commended both larry and i saying that hey man it's super cool that

you didn't bring that up and i was like yeah of course man and then i immediately had to google after what the hell he's talking about real eyes holy [ __ ] this is the guy who just recently went through this horrible experience uh where the whole company turned their back on him and [ __ ] but i feel like the equivalent of that adam adam orf yeah adam yeah here we go yeah uh i'll link that episode on this link notes it's one of the earlier episodes but i feel that that controversy is sort of equaling to this one where game devs are kind of forced to agree and it's kind of bad to not um for possible backlash it's it's it feels like the the like until we actually talked about it uh last month i didn't realize how how how bad it was uh for me to say the

things that i was saying didn't know i thought it was very sensible and reasonable even uh and people sort of agreed but others didn't had no idea that it was such a thing that even shows that that industry is so much stronger than the game development industry right now uh where where they had that many people fighting for it um i mean is there a point i'll i'll leave it with this right is there a line that you feel that we would be uh what do you call it is it exposed exposure not exposure taking advantage of where game developer is really left in the dust like how much bigger does that that part of the industry have to be where you feel like all right now this is becoming a problem or is

there never a scenario like that for you yeah like i said before i think it's a symbiotic relationship i think you know so like we make games people are going to want to you gotta learn to work together so if a streamer makes more money than you they already are man streaming your game exclusively they already are you know what that tells but that tells me what that tells me is that the people making the game need to know better business skills how to how to stream and get get a piece of that it's true uh i still i still stand by but uh i'm learning i'm open to to to be educated um but uh for for those listening man i am looking for that one recent company that did order dmc takedowns i went through the whole process i am looking for that person to kind of talk about that side of the story because i

think i think it is important to kind of investigate and listen to more for for the repercussions of that i think that's very interesting but uh thank you ray as always for coming on uh i know last time i said that might be the last rant symbol this is the last round table um right i'll probably won't talk to you till the beginning of next year uh i did mention many times that uh i might be taking a break but i do have some episodes that i have booked already that i'm gonna do and it might be the only thing i do over december just talking to people i don't mind it it's it's fun for me so um thank you all and uh have a good thanksgiving this is thanksgiving week uh sorry for those who can't brooching well when this episode is out uh people will be preparing to be lonely again uh eating their turkey but be safe for

those living in the united states i guess worldwide it's actually pretty bad right now uh just hold out a little longer i think the vaccine is almost here it takes about six months really maybe in spring when all of us can get it but even then it'll probably be till summer when everyone actually takes it we do have anti-anti-vaccinators out there who haven't even taken the flu vaccine and to be honest i'm not actually anti-vaccinator i've never really been a routine flu vaccinator every year i've just never gotten sick i never really had a problem fighting off the sickness on my own uh but even with this uh covet thing i'm gonna take no chances and yeah yeah for sure and i hope you guys uh consider the same uh to make our world normal again cool ray thank you for discussing these topics and uh enjoy uh show the richest

have fun man thanks for having me on [Music] you