Grand Theft Absent, Steam Machine Caught in the RAM racket & Bungie’s Bad Day | Games For Breakfast

Good morning, Matt.
Ah, good morning, Will.
to all of you.
Welcome to Games FOR BREAKFAST, THE ONLY INTERNET TALK SHOW WE TALK ABOUT this week's gaming and tech news, but that also we had a phenomenal uh phenom- wow, YOU THE WHERE MY BRAIN JUST HICCUPED. It's the only show where that happens because I had the link open to the YouTube page and it completely fried my brain to hear me doing the intro 7 seconds after I did the intro. Wow, I'm sorry, but you're welcome.
Yeah.
That might be the sloppiest intro WE'VE EVER DONE. I'VE EVER DONE.
NO, NO, IF WE GO back Okay, so so insider baseball for those of you on YouTube, we've been doing this show on Twitch since 2019. We have show notes going back to 2019.

Okay?
Yeah.
This show is in elementary school.
That's right.
There there were hundreds of episodes, right? If you think we've done roughly 50 episodes a year, we miss a couple. Um it's like 350 episodes, but the episodes are numbered like they are on YouTube because it doesn't matter what they were before. They're all gone because of the way Twitch does stuff.
Although I think we have them.
We do. We have all I didn't You thought I was going to let them go? I bought an extra extra I bought an extra hard drive and my streaming PC has every episode of every talk show we've done backed up.
You know what we should do sometime, which is the worst idea ever?
do that. The thing that you were about to say
know. You don't even know.
No, I do. We're not going to do it.
What am I going to say?
You're going to say we should watch one of them as an episode
No, god, no. No one should watch any of them. Um no, I was going to say that for a charity stream or something sometime, we should [ __ ] we should buy the highest even though this would be expensive, but

I think it'd be worth it for the for the meme and the charity. We buy the highest uh capacity uh like thumb stick that we can afford. And we put we can put we put them all on one drive and we give it away to like the highest donor where you just get the the original masters of of 6 years of No, more than that. No, 7 years.
Yeah. Um
We've thought about this, too, Tono. Uh creating the rerun channel, we'd have to have another PC running it and do a bunch of other stuff and it would be kind of backwards we'd have to be able to do.
Wait, hold on. We we haven't run this by me.
We've talked about it before. You and I did, actually, forever ago. Just doing a reruns channel.
I have new thoughts on that.
There's a lot of Yeah. We can we can go to battle later.
We'll talk about it around the way. Anyway, we're now doing business live on the internet. So, I am but welcome. Uh we've got a whole bunch of news to talk with you about today.

Uh but we but lots of it bad. Some of it good.
[laughter]
Lots of it bad. Um
But all of it interesting. That's how I That's how I sold it to Brad in the pre-show. Uh So far, this is the second time we've been doing this on Fridays, so thank you very much for coming on over from the Monday crew. Um or if you're just watching the VOD because you can't be here live because Monday works for you and whatever and all that jazz. I apologize, but I think based on reception of last week, I think this uh little experiment is probably going to go well. I'm not saying again, not this particular episode. Who knows how good this one will be. But I'm saying doing the shows on Friday in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you give us bad news in a good way ala Rottingham?
You know, I I would be willing to try it.
Okay. I like we'll do that. Uh does that mean that we're ready to begin, Chad?
I think I think it does. I think it

seems though as though Brad and Janet are uh are ready to go. And Rocky, I imagine you're always ready over on Nebula.
Okay. Uh well, everybody, uh get get get your fork, get your knife, you know, do that thing with your napkin where you either tuck it into your whatever. Get ready for today's main course.
[music]
Yeah.
So, uh there's a small indie title uh being released in November where I believe uh pre-orders go live today. And again, you shouldn't pre-order anything um ever. Um little little tiny thing uh started as a top-down shooter, you know, and it has since grown a little bit. It's a small fanfare here and there. Uh largest uh media property profit margins ever created for any possible IP.
Yeah.
Um we of course are talking about uh indie darling Grand Theft Auto 6.

Um now, as illustrated by our thumbnail and this image here, uh when pre-orders went live, and yes, we will be talking about pricing. Um One thing that really I think got in Will and I's craw, just lodged in there, was the fact that um there would be zero actual discs on launch day. However, they would still be selling physical cases with codes in stores. Let me see if I can present that to you again in a positive light.
Oh, I I've got a I've got a good
What? You You go first. GO FIRST. GO FIRST.
SO, CHAD, were you on the fence about Grand Theft Auto 6? Are you someone who like really believes in physical media and game archives? Well, the devs at Rockstar have made it really easy for you to save a bunch of money by not buying Grand Theft Auto 6. It's really like they've really given you a really

great way to like save money and buy other things instead. Like someone mentioned blueprints on physical. You should buy that instead because that will actually be a physical object of art that you can own as opposed to an empty case with a code in it.
Wait, did that actually drop today? Did the pre-order for that drop today? For the for blueprints?
We're not getting distracted. We'll do it We'll do it during the next
bought one game let's say Flight Simulator that's a like a Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes type game with two with a pilot and a co-pilot or something earlier today that we're going to play or something.
like, you know, they're making it really easy to like keep giving you reasons to not BUY THE GAME. WHAT A DEAL.
So so Okay.
Grand Theft Auto Facetiousness aside,
The what?
Facetiousness aside,
Yeah. Well, I mean yes and no. Don't buy the game if this is if this is an absolute deal breaker for like every possible thing we talk about, it all is on sliding scales, right? Um

[laughter]
I do like this try online. To be fair, the alternative would have probably been a case with six discs in it.
Jokes on you. That would give me immeasurable nostalgia and I would be filled with endless joy and getting a case with six discs in it. Joke is entirely on you. Give me that crap.
And and it is funny because Like okay, the the other thing and this is the I think this is the strangest bit of it. Like so if this was a purely online only all the time thing,
Mhm.
sure. But they've made it clear that just like GTA V when it got released, GTA [clears throat] online didn't come out for 3 weeks I think after the fact and they haven't even announced when the online component of GTA 6 will be here. This is for a a standalone single-player game.
Yep.
Um Will, what do we think here as far as like

I don't care if one game even when as big as GTA 6 pulls some ish like this. Like it I whatever. Except it sends a message. It sends a message to other groups that have less money that probably need to save more money that this is like other other I'd say other AAA's even that have less money. Like that this is kind of okay. And we know we've talked about this before how the metrics support this decision. How people how the majority of people who play games engage with it. But what really disappoints me here is Rockstar is a company that not only has the money to do physical discs, but also it will be printing so much more money where doing an actual physical run especially if they're already doing all the logistics of shipping cases across the country um would cost them it would be a it would be a uh it wouldn't even be a line item. It would just be it would be nothing compared to what they have and what they're going to make. Um

And I think that's the that's the insult here. Like if you're a scrappy indie who can only release on you know, Steam, you know, totally that makes sense. I mean heck a lot like we just got the blueprints mentioned. Blueprints is just getting a physical release, right?
With a whole bunch of merch by the way. I have a pop up and I'm excited.
Love it. Um So I just think this is this is this is a cost-saving measure for a company who whose game is literally known for excess. And I think that might be why it actually like sticks harder.
I I actually have like a slightly adjacent but distinct take, I think.
Okay.
It's the pretending for me. Right? Like it's it's the it is the If you want to do like a a digital only game, that's fine, right? Like that

tells people up front. It's the pretending that there's going to be a physical release and then doing the code thing, right? Like if it's going to be a box with a code, why is it not a card? Right? Why is it Why is it a box with a code? That feels deceptive to me, right? In a way that like I have really grown to dislike, even as someone who never buys physical games. Like if I buy this blueprints bundle, which probably doing, it'll be like the first physical game I think I will have purchased this year. Even with my switch to all of my games have been digital, right? I don't buy physical games. I don't like having them around. I prefer digital. And like we can quibble about that, but that's my preference, right?
there's nothing wrong with that from an individual user perspective. Like there's nothing.
Right.
Absolutely.
And so for me, it's pretending that there's going to be a physical release and doing the code in a box thing as opposed to being like, "Hey, we're

trying a new delivery system. We've got Grand Theft Auto 6 codes on cards if you want to give it as a gift to someone, right?" But like it's pretending that there's going to be a physical release.
Yeah, you there's no uh after coming back from doing the wedding and doing a lot of experience design on a couple other projects that I've been working on. There's no version of this where the negatives outweigh the positives. To Will's point, if it's a card, you don't crack open a card and are are greeted with an empty slot where something should be. Even if that thing isn't valuable, even if that thing is something that you don't care about, you will be cracking open a case and you'll be seeing a spot where a disc that your brain would think would be there is not there. And therefore, your brain will give you a slightly negative response because it is something that is not expected and it is less than expected even in like a lizard brain kind of thing, even if you know that there's just a code inside. Whereas a card, you

understand that. We've all got gift cards. We've all seen how those work. You scratch it off, you do whatever, you enter your code, you get the thing.
And then when you're done, you cut it up and make it into part of your Warhammer terrain. No, just me. Anyway.
everyone does.
Right. Like everyone does.
Like everyone who's ever gotten a gift card does.
Right, because everyone who's ever gotten a gift card plays Warhammer 40K. Am I right, gamers? Am I right? Anyway. [snorts]
Crack cracking open a cold one with the boys. Um
It just I think so but between the we're trying to they're trying to save money for things that don't exist and this like deceptiveness, right?
thing. And like and Mickey brings up a good point. Rockstar knows the hype outweighs the people who want a physical release. Rockstar knows the hype outweighs every negative that's going to come their way.
Right.
But but this is the thing. I go back to if they were a smaller company, a leaner company, if if something like if they if they wanted to save on materials or shipping costs, right? Like I could a thousand percent

see a reason to do this. The numbers bear it out. The the community uh backlash air quotes will not be big enough to scratch or dent the surface. So, if you're going to do this, don't do it in a way that sets you up to give your consumer a bad feeling experience from the opening crack.
Yeah.
Like it's just poor experience design. If you you could save more money But here's the thing. What they what they want is shelf space. Even though physical stores are dead or dying, uh and that's very sad, they still want a big kiosk with a bunch of cases to make it look like this is the biggest release ever like it's it's a almost like a it's it's a psychological approach.
correct.
And that outweighs it, too. It's just from a

from the grand scheme, from the macro, none of this is going to matter to Rockstar at all. But for the micro, for every person who buys one of these, I think the way that they've designed it will instantly make them feel bad before they enjoy the game.
Yep.
And that like just seems stupid when you literally have all the money in the world. Like again, I could see this mistake coming from a group that just couldn't do something X, Y, and Z wise, right? But like, this is this is active malfeasance.
Yeah. In some ways, I prefer the Iam8bit like release thing. So, if you're not familiar, Iam8bit does physical releases for indie games that didn't get physical releases on launch. And they do them for games that are wildly successful and for other like for games that are successful, right? So, like they're doing blueprints, they did Hollow Knight, they've done Celeste, they did a bunch of other indie games that didn't necessarily have the money to do a release like they're they're specialists

in working with games that are already successful to do physical releases later, right? And that like if you're worried about doing a physical release, then like do that, but this is so weird to me. It just like, bro. Like I don't I think it also opens up and we'll talk more about this in a second when we talk about pricing. I think eat So many games are now going to get licensed to point at this and be like, well, they did it. Grand Theft Auto 6 did it. It's the biggest game of the decade. Grand Theft Auto 6 did it, we can do it, too. And you're like, but that you don't understand that you're not Grand Theft Auto 6, right? Pretty clearly if you're trying to be in the same like no one is allowed to be in the conversation with Grand Theft Auto 6, right? It is the apex predator of the entire gaming food chain right now. That is a thing whether we like it or not and a bunch of us don't and I know that from looking at chat for the past 20 minutes. Um

but the the number of people who'll be like, we're we're we're big we're big tough Grand Theft Auto 6 likes. We're going to not release we're going to put a code in a box, too. Not because we can't do it, not because we can't afford it, but because that is what they did and now we are given permission to save money in that same way.
So, I think that this will actually every other company that tries this it will also work. I think this is sadly going to be something that just pushes down the line and we have uh a worse in-person uh uh product at wherever you buy these products.
Yep.
If we want to transition ever so slightly, um the thing that I do I think everyone will also try to copy and will in will fail absolutely miserably at is price.
I agree.
Uh the other announcement was the two versions, the standard and the deluxe, I believe. Uh the standard is $79.99 and I

believe the deluxe is $99.99. Um let's see if I can pull up here to see which versions have what. So again, this is a single-player experience. A single-player experience Sorry, I also got a little confused here because if you pre-order, and again, no one should, uh I think you get like a couple little exclusive things, but one thing you get is a month of GTA Plus, which is the GTA online service, but the new game's version of it isn't out yet. So, I'm like, "Okay, seems odd if you're not going to have your your game out." Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. THAT'S A WHOLE HOT TAKE OF GAS. Um Okay. So, this is a single-player experience. And look, value is subjective. Uh I don't think I I'll I'll I'll I'll

do the a thing I don't like, but I believe is true. This will sell just as many copies as it was going to if it was 60 and 80 or whatever.
Like, there's no there's no question. If you GTA
can do this. This is the This is the one series that for whatever reason, whether we believe in it or not, everybody or so many people that don't normally engage with games engage with this game.
Yep.
This reaches across the aisle of entertainment to a thousand other places that most games don't reach.
Yep.
And therefore, you know, the the up is here. I don't think that this is going to work for literally any other game.
Yeah.
Like, Mar- I know that, for instance, uh Mario Kart World did the $80 thing, but that that I think was more to essentially push bundling it with the actual Switch.

With the Switch.
Um with Switch 2, pardon.
This is a great question. Hold on. I got I got it. What if the game isn't good? That's a a great question. We'll deal with that in a second. I want to I want to talk about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we'll we'll get to Um the Every other company is going to look at this and see the insane sales numbers. And try this, too.
And
And I don't think it's going to work out.
And the truth is if you've ignored all of the problems coming out of Rockstar for the past years enough that you're still buying GTA 6, you don't care about the price. If you've ignored the union busting, if you've ignored the lack of physical codes, if you've ignored all of the other things that are going on out of Rockstar, and you're still all on board the GTA 6 hype train, you probably don't care about the price.

Yeah. The um How do I put it? There will be a lot of sort of um We're going to talk about a few of them here like a sort of like smaller acts of defiance. Case in point, I have a whole chat of friends who this is the only game that they play. So, like we play GTA online from time to time. And they were like so pumped about pre-orders. And I got in the chat and I was like, "Why? Like they're not going to run out. Like and the and the bonuses aren't good and you shouldn't pre-order anyway." And they like it's funny. It did like I thought there'd be a little more pushback in that in those chats that I had. And then they're all like, "Oh wait, yeah, you're right." Yeah. And then I brought up some of the other stuff like you know, even even if you're planning on buying um you know, waiting until a day or two after like just thing things you can actually do if

you want to both buy the game and not just feed the beast every piece of uh value that it possibly can.
Right.
Um The other thing especially paying something like this and not getting something physical, the the the sort of like the other side of the pendulum, if we're going back to the physicality thing, is this also essentially destroys any second-hand market for the game. Like there'll be no used copies of Grand Theft Auto 6.
Yeah.
Unless there is some physical edition down the line or something like that, right?
And and and we should also be clear um the difference between the standard $80 and the deluxe $100 is not the same as um some of the

uh the things that like Spurious mentioned with like AAA games having a $100 having $100 versions, right? This is all gameplay stuff. Like it's
Yeah, there's active like there's like let's go down the sort of list here what they So like it's it the list is kind of crazy. So there's a bunch of missions that are locked behind it, but they're all behind like I don't know if I don't know how much Grand Theft Auto 5 anyone has played, but I imagine the mission structure here in 4 is fairly similar where you drive to a place. Uh sometimes you have to buy the location to get the missions to do the things. Like who knows how it's going to change in this version. But there's a bunch of locations that tie both cosmetics, vehicles, and missions behind them that you can't get otherwise. Any other games have done this, too. But the idea like I think another reason why it feels so egregious here is one of the reasons why I think someone would feel like they would pay $80 for a Grand Theft Auto and maybe not feel

ripped off is the expansiveness and the sort of feeling of like infinite possibility of like you can do all the things this game has to offer. It's a giant open world, etc. And now, no matter what, unless you do the $100 version, you're getting the the you know, 90% of the game, or whatever it is. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Um there is a storage locker. I don't need to do all the names of it. There's a specific kind of car. There's a There's a chop shop that you can only do specific mods for the things, uh which will have in-game Again, it's a single-player game, but will have sort of ability things tied to them. There's a classic car collection. There's a tattoo shop. There's a hair salon that can only do certain tattoos and hairstyles. And again, it's I think it's more so the actual structure of how GTA doles out its content that makes this feel worse to me. Because what's going to This is and we won't know until we play it. What's going to happen in the $80 version?

Are those things just not going to be there? Or are those buildings and those establishments going to be there and when your character walks up, it says ultimate edition only. 1999. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like completely just booting your immersion in the face.
Yeah.
So, and then someone did bring up uh I got to see if I can find it. Someone said earlier, oh, here it is, RC. I wonder if Rockstar intentionally did some bad to stir up controversy to get people talking about the game. I think they don't need to. Uh I mean, there's a There's a There's a sci-op way to look at this where like they'll walk back a third of this, and then they'll be seen as heroes, but like
And they can, because the disc is in the box. So, they get to they get to decide up until the moment they hit go what is and isn't in which version of the game?

They get to pick that, right? They they don't They're not locked to a gold master the way they would be if they were physical media. There's nothing that can get like leaked because it's not on disk. There's no
Oh, yeah. Then there's the leak conversation. I don't I don't that leaking is bad, should never happen. They got hit with a bunch of leaks. That's That's awful. If you release a physical game and you're shipping it around the country, that's what happen that there's a you're the biggest thing in the the world then yeah, I mean you you can't have security at the level if you're going to sell it at Walmart. You know, there's going to be some some street date breaks from GameStop. I mean, what you could do this would be awful and companies have done this. Although it's funny. I think you can actually limit the actual true damage of it of like getting things all over social media, but maybe not. Is

I know I keep going back further. I was going to say like oh, just make it so it's not playable until this date. But that doesn't really work.
Yeah. They've They've Yeah. Yep. Yep. I mean, they did that with the switch stuff and every the switch two stuff and everybody got real upset.
Yeah.
Excuse me. I don't know. And then And then there's this question, by the way, is the game going to be good? And I have a follow-up question. Sort of in response to that. How good would it have to be to justify its existence right now?
well, Take-Two's one of their higher-ups said that they're going to price it in accordance to what they feel like is still a value This is a an actual quote from somewhere, a value to the consumer. Um is there a game in in in my hypothetical brain that costs $100 that I think is value? I think so. I think there could be.

I I think the amount of uh Hell, to be honest, and this is this is subjective. Please take this subjective. I don't want this to be the case, but like I have gotten so many hours out of saying Elden Ring night ring. Like that I don't want it to be this, but like I think I got for $40 or whatever it was, I got way more than my money's worth.
Right.
Right? It is
And and and we're going to exclude
Baldur's Gate.
Right. We're going to We're going to exclude me from the conversation because I'm over here like a little indie raccoon eating trash out of the Steam dumpster with 125 hours in Orb of Creation, which I paid $6 for. Like
Yeah.
Don't
So, and I mean it was mastered. Neil Wiz Master asked another interesting thing, "How good is GTA V?" If you want my opinion, GTA V when it came out was insanely good. Uh it has a bunch of problems. There's

so many things uh societally etc. that it that it screwed up on. Uh and but also GTA Online I've never bought a shark card, and I've probably played played God. I I I would have to go look it up. It's probably It's probably up there with my run on World of Warcraft. Like I've played a lot of GTA Online and a lot of GTA V.
Yeah.
Um partially because I think it's excellent. I think there's problems with it. I think the way that Rockstar handles uh the way their characters move, they focus more on animation fidelity of like movement cycle than actual like ability to move the character in a in a in a speedy way that feels good and I think the gun play in GTA 5 and the the other GTA's is is pretty rough. Um, but that doesn't stop it from becoming this central hub that so many

of my friends who don't normally engage in video games is the place where I engage with them with this medium in it. Like I I I think it would You can someone could very easily not like Grand Theft Auto 5 or Grand Theft Auto online. There's no problem. I think it would be hard to say that Grand Theft Auto 5 was a bad game. Um
Yeah, I think that's fair.
So I and look, if we're going off of Rockstars release pedigree chances are this too will be a good game. But it's also now has the biggest spotlight I think almost and it could be any game for sure, but maybe almost any piece of media has ever had on it. Uh or it will. It will have that spotlight as soon as it releases. So when you are king of the mountain I think we've seen what happens on the

internet to a lot of kings of mountains. It almost doesn't matter and and truly I I don't want to say like ah, the people will have their way. Like there'll be a lot of people complaining about it. And it's still going to make a gazillion bajillion dollars.
Yeah.
And you can do both those things. It's fine. Um
And like if if you're and I I see a lot of people in chat who are like not fans of GTA 5 or or GTA in general.
Which is fine. There's there's so many games that are wonderful that I think are works of art that I don't like and don't play.
And like I've been working really hard on this on stream with getting the differentiation down between I don't like and is poorly constructed or has serious flaws. Right? I love some games that have horrible, glaring, massive flaws. Just

unbelievable trash. I have hundreds of hours in Binding of Isaac. Do you understand how many problems there are with Binding of Isaac? The list is almost longer than the list of things that are right with Binding of Isaac, okay? Like Those are two separate things. But, I also want to encourage people to think about the fact that all the triple A's are getting out of the way, and I guarantee you that in the shadow of Grand Theft Auto, all of us indie raccoons are going to be raiding so many dumpsters for so much good stuff. Are Are Are my fellow indie raccoons ready to devour whatever Devolver releases that day? It's going to be great, right? Like, I'm just going to And also, I I want to make it sort of clear, too. Like, I I don't like anything that Rockstar is doing here. I think it's at best stupid,

and at worst damaging to the entire industry, depending on what angles of this people try to glean or take take umbrage from. Um And any amount you want to engage with or not engage with Grand Theft Auto 6 is totally fine. You just Think of Think your way through it. Think what you want to do. Me, personally, I am uh most likely just not going to pre-order it. I'll probably get it, I don't know, a week or two after launch. Like, I don't need to keep up with the Joneses, and I'm going to be doing it specifically because I know uh it will be a thing that, to be honest, I'll be able to connect with about 10 to 12 people that I don't usually connect with about this kind of thing.
Right. And that and God, someone asked way earlier, is um is this a uh is this an MMO, right? Is is GTA the biggest MMO? And I think in the same way

that like I I think it is more apt for it to be in a conversation with Final Fantasy and RuneScape and wow than it is for it to be in a conversation with God of War and um Final Fantasy XVI and some of them like Horizon, right? Like it is more in conversation with these MMOs both in terms of play time and in terms of the reasons that people get into it. Because the number one reason that people don't swap MMOs or don't get into new MMOs is that their friends aren't there. And the number one reason they do is that their friends are all there. And for that, this is an MMO mentality right moment, right?
Even though even though to be very clear the game we're getting on November will not have online support.
Correct. [laughter] Correct. Correct. But like it is very interesting
conversation piece. It's going to be essentially like uh at this point since it's a

single-player experience, kind of like watching a popular TV series like Game of Thrones before it became the end of Game of Thrones. Um yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh
Yeah, there you go. Heywire. Pokepedia. Right there.
100%.
Also, I I think and I think I'll sort of end with this. Uh Shine Line, I don't think anybody was surprised by the 80 or 100. I I don't think I was not shocked by that cuz someone else brought up in chat. Yeah, a bunch of games have silly ex- like ultimate editions. But normally those ultimate editions and maybe I can never be sure, but the list for this ultimate edition seems exorbitant. It almost seems like an expansion. Mhm. Like and that is a bad fee Remember how we were talking about sort of experience design of like of like opening a game case that has a place for a disc and there's no disc and no matter what there'll be a little slight like, "Huh, something's missing here." chemical in your head. The way that this is implemented and

talked about is in a very like Rockstar eloquacious kind of way where they like overly describe everything which makes it seem like a larger value proposition and we don't know how big of one it will be or how much in your face it will be until we see the actual game.
neighborhood in a place.
yeah, but it feels bad. Whether or not it is worth the extra $20 or the entire game is worth $100, the things that GTA has done in the last week feel bad and because right now there is no game to hold it up against or experience with friends to hold it up against, all you had which was also very high and still is is hype. And what these things do is chip away at that. For what I would imagine very little discernible monetary gain at the scale in which Rockstar is engaging.
Yep. I agree. Also, as a point of joyful comparison,

you could spend $100 on this or you could go to 8-bit and for $88 buy six different 3D model blueprint key key keychains. Which I would do. I'm about to do that. Like
We're not going to do $100, are you?
You don't know me.
I guess I don't. I'm I'm going to be
boxes, Matt. They're They're They're dopamine-filled blind boxes. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
I'm going to I am going to actually be buying it on Switch too, so long as I can guarantee that it is on the cartridge. Chat, can you find out if it's actually going to be on the cartridge? If it will, I will buy it on Switch too. Um
We've sufficiently derailed. All right.
it.
Chat, we've got a little bit of time before ads, which means I believe that we can dive into at least one, maybe two

stories before then. So, brace brace yourselves. Take a deep breath. Prepare
[snorts]
for some breaking bad news.
Taste like failure.
It does. It does taste a lot like failure. Uh first up on our uh unfortunate list of bad news.
Yeah. Uh we we will uh
[clears throat]
feeling almost like an homage at this point after the show be playing more of Destiny 2 now that it is completed, but the other shoe of this story has officially dropped. Um on Blue Sky uh Bungie did announce their um Well, I'll just read it because that's

kind of the easiest thing to do here. Uh with great sadness, we announce the reduction in in force as we reorganize Bungie. As the leaderships of Bungie's past, present, and present, we recognize Destiny 2 fell short of expectations these past several years. Following our final content update for Destiny 2, with our future projects still in early incubation, we unfortunately could not continue operating at previous size. We know this decision has a profound impact on the people affected, their families, friends, and teammates. While these changes are necessary to best position the studio now and for the future, that does not lessen the difficulty of this moment or the impact it has had on those affected. Later, we will share more about that future with all of you, but today is not that day. Today, we wish to extend our gratitude and compassion to every member of the Bungie team who has been impacted and those who remain. We hope you will do the same. Bungie. Um

Two things can be true. Uh you can absolutely have to do layoffs to to make sure that a whole studio doesn't crumble. That that is that makes total sense. Um but also I think what we're seeing here, especially in the last three to four years of just the insane amount of continual layoffs in the gaming space. And they all are coming off of like the COVID essentially like over hiring thing that was not done nearly as sustainably and or honestly as it should have been. Um I think what what grinds my gears here is we're constantly seeing these things happen and people get laid off and then companies continuing to kind of make the same mistakes, boom, bust, layoff, etc. And the people that are actually making

these decisions, be it C-suite or uh anyone sort of in charge at a at a structural level to make these changes, like they're not the ones that are being hurt by this. They're just moving other people around that are being hurt by this. I think the um um the comment here that really got me was [snorts] that um as the leaders of Bungie past and present, we recognize Destiny 2 fell short of expectations these past several years. I mean, not to to put too fine a point on it, but why? Whose fault is that?
Yeah.
Uh I would argue after playing Destiny 2 for the last week and again, we're going to be playing a little more after this. Um gameplay's immaculate. It's a really fun game. Um I think that at its core, you can really get into a deep dive and have some really good times with your friends. So, I don't think it's really the game. I think the thing that irks me

around Destiny is the implementation of 90,000 currencies. I think uh before it was one single package, the the constant drip feed of sort of content, the um uh the way that you could still spend real money on cosmetics and things, the way that you gated content out of a game uh for whatever reasons. We won't even get into that. Like, there are many reasons from an institutional level that poisoned Destiny. I I would argue that the core gameplay loop of Destiny was not one of them.
Yeah.
Um and so, who made those decisions? It's probably not the people getting laid off. And I think it's just every time we hear one of these stories, I think it's just important to keep saying that. I don't It doesn't move the needle. It doesn't do anything, but like, it's something that like as these things just become the most common thing in the video games

industry, a industry that is actively collapsing. Um for many reasons, which we'll get into in our next story. Um it's important to not let these very well-written but flowery and [ __ ] statements kind of just sit because they always come off as passive.
Yeah. Oh, it's a super passive voice. Like the whole thing is like, "Well, this happened for reasons that no one can know, and so we have to do a thing because this happened. Why did it happen?" Uh
Like and like I think today we wish to extend our gratitude. That's where it should have stopped. And compassion. To every member of the Bungie team. Okay, so gratitude you you can just by saying you wish to extend gratitude, you you technically are in a way. Like there's other ways you can do it, but you sure. But compassion When you drop that line, you kind of

have to Okay, how are you being compassionate? It's not this speech. It's not taking care of your people.
Right.
Where What is compassionate here? Like I I don't look I'll even I'll even put on the corpo hat for a second. Whoever wrote this did not make the decision to do it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, this is like a thing written by social.
Yeah. Um It's funny how how if we could just implement silly binding laws that everyone had to impact uh how how much different things like this would be. Like if the person who made the decisions that they figured out kind of caused Destiny to cave had to write this and put it out with their face next to it. Right? Like again, these are things that will never happen. I don't expect them to, but could you imagine?
Yeah. I like this one.

Very They're feeling slightly sad for a few minutes. It's very hard on these poor executives. True. All right. Uh we are running up on our mandatory ad break. So, we will wish the devs of Destiny 2 all the best. We hope each and every one of them finds a good job here in the industry because God, we need to not lose them.
There's been other things just this is not remotely a thing that makes really anything better, but the people at Sony Interactive Entertainment and a couple of other things have like committed to trying to find as many of the people that are being affected by the Bungie layoffs jobs elsewhere. There of course aren't enough.
Right.
Um There are good people inside the bad machine.
Yeah.
Um And so hopefully that number keeps shifting in the positive, I guess.
All right. Ad break. We're going to do ads for fake things while Twitch chat is actively getting ads for real things. Uh we do this to keep pre-rolls off over on

Twitch because pre-rolls are the devil. Um also, I will take this opportunity during ads, ironically, um to mention that there is a rumor going around about Twitch changing ad slots.
Huh.
That is currently unverified.
Ooh.
Um there there is a bit of confusion about that. I saw several people show me that article and sent me that article and I chose not to make it a real story because there is some unverified hinkiness going on around it. So,
Copy that.
Matt, would you care to begin?
I would love to. Hey everyone. Matt from Extra Credits next to Will from Extra Credits here on twitch.tv and youtube.com. Now, you may have heard some rumors in the past about Twitch changing the way that they do advertisements. And I'm here to tell you that's absolutely not happening. I'm going to sell you this entire situation. It's not going to happen at all. You don't have to worry. So, just remember that all you have to do is trust us and listen to these

non-ads about the way that ads totally aren't changing. They're not. They're not going to change. So, remember, when you experience an ad or a non-ad, do all the things it wants. If you thought the intro of the show was bad,
Listen, we can't have 100% bangers or they wouldn't 100% be bangers.
I like this. I like this from R2. Are you selling us gossip or not?
Yep.
All right, you ready?
Uh yes. Hi there, everyone. Will from Extra Credits said from Extra Credits said Will from Extra Credits who just introduced himself as Matt from Extra Credits said Will from Extra Credits. Consider not sleeping. Just Look, look, I know I know you feel like sleeping is good, but you could instead don't sleep and instead of sleep ponder.

[music]
That's right. You could stay up all night pondering your orb. That's right. Instead of sleeping, instead of doing plenty of other things, you could rest your brain by staring deeply into the orb and pondering [music] it endlessly. You could just ponder the depth of infinity inside the orb of endless magic and that would be better than sleep.
Will, I I think that's I DON'T WANT TO SAY IRRESPONSIBLE. You know, I feel like I need to now do one to come back. So,
Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.
There we go. There's the music. Hi, everyone. Matt from Extra Credits said Will from Extra Credits who just introduced me from Extra Credits said Will from Extra Credits after I introduced Will and Matt from Extra Credits. Listen, you don't have to ponder an orb if you don't want to. You don't You just don't

Ponder the orb.
Is he fetching an orb? He is.
Correct.
I blacked out. What happened?
Orb.
What?
Orb.
Ponder. No. And I don't even have an orb. That's
This is ridiculous. All right. Uh Now that we've had our orb pondering break and a small respite from the endless screaming that is our current reality. Hey chat, are you ready? Brace yourselves. Take a deep breath. Let's talk about EA getting sold to Saudi Arabia with the help of Jared Kushner. Because Bungie wasn't the only group of people experiencing layoffs. No. No, EA is also starting to do

layoffs because
before the merger, which is the this is the weird part because they're 20 billion outside of the the pocket of what they need to be for the sale.
Right. Yeah, so EA is taking on 20 billion dollars in loan debt to make the sale happen. The total sale is 55 billion dollars and 20 billion dollars of it is loan financing backed by EA's existence. Which by the way No. Like I I can't express enough to all of you how fake all of the money in this is. Like we've done like the Beowulf capital is a fake and money is made up thing, right? But like this is ultra super duper like this is This is a 5-year-old explaining how credit cards work. Like, this is not even remotely

real anyway. Just a reminder that all of this is like stupid and bad. Um
In case you needed one.
In case you needed one for some reason. Uh But, yeah, they're cut They're cutting people across recruitment, customer support, trust and safety, and IT.
Why would you need ANY OF THOSE THINGS?
YOU need any of those things to run a successful company that depends on computers? And people buying their computer products. And people safely using their computer. Oh. Hm.
What? Look, I Truly, I don't think that that is the the methodology here. I think two things can be true and one just happens to help the other. I don't think they're gutting these things to make it less secure. I think that they think they spend too much money on security. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like, I think And then, ultimately, it's

snake eating its own tail. We get back to it. Um But, this These are layoffs before the sale. This isn't the new owners coming in and being like, "Oh, dang, we bought this thing and now we have to pay all these people. Axe them." This is before that.
Yep. Cuz they need to be as profitable as possible, as far in advance as possible, because they're going to take on 20 billion dollars of debt. Which, I again, just so everyone's on the same page, is the biggest fake number I've heard in a very long time.
I'm really getting sick of hearing THE WORD BILLION.
YO, ME, TOO. Maybe it's like humans shouldn't be trading billions of dollars.
Well, because
[snorts]
like my is consistent at least as far as we know. But like value

as we've stated with Grand Theft Auto 6 is subjective. So, we all to have our societies work agree that a dollar is worth x amount based on the buying power that that dollar has. But But lately I feel like every company is valued over a billion dollars and they're selling for six billion dollars and then they're going to make 17 billion dollars, but they have to do six billion dollars worth of layoffs. And I'm just like I It starts feeling I I Well, you might have said this in the past. It starts feeling like a little kid. Like And then we've got EA to buy it and we got a billion dollars from it because we needed the billions more because we It's
just Why are you Why are you talking about? What are you talking about? These numbers aren't real.
billion as a magic word for trust me, bro.
I mean, kind of And that's kind of it. Um anyway, disgusting, stupid.

I like this so much better. Thank you, Amp. 11D gazillion?
Yeah, 11D gazillion.
Yeah, right. Like it's I hate this. It's terrible. Uh great. Next up on our list of disappointing bad news stories. Well, I'm happy and sad. This is bad This is like medium news. It's kind
news. We don't have a stinger for medium news. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, well, we don't have a Yeah, we don't have a medium news stinger. The Steam Machine. So, the Steam Machine has officially been uh priced priced and put up for lotto. So, if you would like to purchase one of the versions, you can enter into a lottery through Steam. They are only being sold through Steam. They are not being sold in any other fashion. Um you can purchase one of two sizes of Steam Machine with or without the, in my opinion, excellent Steam Controller.

Um those are those are things then uh that that you can do. Yeah, uh so I I like this comment. The controller is so ugly. Yes. And so comfortable. [laughter] I cannot I cannot stress enough how
Oh, you got one.
Yeah, I have one. How comfortable this is in my hands. The ergonomics are excellent. The ergonomics of the thumb of the the the thumb tracking pad
hold up the front? Yeah, I know you have a picture of it here, but like
Yeah, it looks
Yeah, it looks so bad. It looks so bad.
It feels so great, right? Cuz you got you got buttons on the back. You got you got all this other stuff. Like it's Yeah, stop looking at it, start feeling it. Yes.
Because when you're playing a game, you're not looking at the controller.
What are you talking about? I look at it all the time.
How am I missing all of my shots?
YOU'RE MISSING IT ALL.
HOW AM I missing all of my shots? Why can't I see the screen? Right. Um okay. Yeah, work good much better than look. Yeah, right. So,

the bad news
Uh-oh.
is that this beautiful box has fallen prey to RAM prices. And instead of what we're guessing was a roughly $750 price point, the cheapest model is coming in at just over a thousand dollars, a thousand and fifty dollars. We're going to stick with that rather than get into all the gradations of like individual other versions with or without the controller, but we're going to deal with nice round numbers.
There's four gradations. With or without controller and with more space.
Correct. It's a thousand dollars. We're just going to go with it's a thousand dollars. It's easier to talk about. It's a thousand dollars. And this sucks.
Because it's a harder value prop

to So, allow rewind. I was excited and I was thinking about getting a Steam Machine because I really like the idea of playing my Steam library on the couch. But that is a luxury that I will not be doing for a thousand dollars. Like I just won't be. There's no point. That would be incredibly wasteful in my particular situation.
Yeah.
Um I think that with the specs and how it runs the games and and all the things and they runs games fine.
Yeah. Uh and and to clarify uh Swifty asked, is it just a Steam Machine like the old one or Steam Machine like the old one? No.
No.
It is it is actually a stand-alone PC that will play
a console, yeah.
Yeah. That is that is in a console-esque form factor.
Um What was I going to say? The In fact, to to the point where I had a

friend basically uh ask me if I was getting it and I was like, no, and they're like, can you just put your name in on Steam to to get one and if you get it then give it to him. I was like, yeah, that's fine. Like I don't I want people who want to get this to get it, right? Um I think that
Okay. Okay. If you're trying to So So the Steam Machine Look let's look at all the different use cases of why a Steam Machine would exist. You want to get console players interested in the Steam ecosystem and marketplace because it's the largest one that there is.
Yes.
Okay. You've now made your system that Let's pretend these are people that don't engage with Steam and they're just console players for for a moment. Like they don't they don't understand they don't have the the years of back catalog that we all do, right? Well, now this is a more expensive, less

powerful console than say the PS5. Even I I don't know about the Xbox Series X. I'm not quite sure.
I I believe it's it's it roughly equivalent at best. It's definitely not more powerful than any of the current series consoles.
Yeah. So, it might be more powerful than the Switch 2, maybe.
Oh, yeah. That's cuz everything's more powerful than the Switch 2. It's a lunchbox, right?
Um Oh god, that thing still plays Cyberpunk beautifully and I've no idea what dark magic it does to do it. Like it's insane. It's insane.
Uh don't look at how much sacrificial blood is greasing the processor. I won't ask you. Yeah.
Um but the um Yeah, and then and then Humble goes, "Yeah, Switch 2 is half the price. And the Switch 2 does something else." Right? Yeah. So So, but like I guess my point is Okay, so for the money a console a regular old console person isn't going to be like, "Ooh, this is fun."

Like like it there's there's three better and I'm including Xbox in this better consoles that do different things that you could get. Okay, cool. So, that's You've kind of And this isn't their fault for the price, obviously. The RAM company like the RAM stuff is is the issue. Let's look at the other people. Let's look at people like me who have a Steam library who want to just have a side thing for their thing. We've covered that. It's going to be I think too expensive for that. It's also isn't going to be for the people who like really are into PC gaming. Because it's not strong enough to be. There's a reason people are in this and it's to have like really great specs and this isn't it. This is paying an exorbitant amount of money for okay specs. Yeah. So So where does this leave this I want to be very clear. I want the Steam Machine to succeed. But like the current climate really makes it difficult to to be able to see

a path to that.
And I think there are there are two things. There's there's two things that aren't being considered here. Um One of which is like a a substantive like use argument. The other one is just kind of like a unfortunate truth. The substantive use argument is that yeah, um it is a Linux PC. It is a Linux PC running SteamOS which runs Steam games. It's the it's the Steam Deck OS, but you plug a keyboard mouse or into it in addition to the controller. But it's a PC. It's like a real whole PC. It's not a lockdown thing and you can do your own stuff to it. You can change the OS around it and do other stuff. So it's more flexible than a console which is
not
say this it is a the only place that it works really well for is what I would call sort of like This is this sounds pejorative and I don't mean it to. In fact, I mean this very lovingly, a hobbyist machine.
Yeah.
Like you can do so much with it if you

want to tinker and pick and prod and do stuff, right? Like like that is awesome. It's like I'm just going to say what if Raspberry Pi times a billion, right? Like So sure
a super big Raspberry Pi kind of thing is true. Yes. Um and the other one is I think all of the things that it does are interesting things and I think there is definitely a use case for it in many people's lives. I think one of the other use cases that isn't getting talked about a lot is um, as um, streamers first two PC setup. Right now, it's much easier to get this than it is to get a lot of other like things that would play games comparably well as a dedicated gaming machine for your two PC setup. I can see someone

doing like a laptop and this as like a starter streaming setup.
Sure.
Right? Which is like its own whole very the it's literally like ultra niche, right? But it's the thing that I would be remiss if I didn't mention.
Essentially run a Chromebook and this.
Right.
To a point.
Correct. And then I I think all of the things that it does are good things that have that exist and are places to be. We're just at the point where it's not in the right price bracket, right?
profitable anymore. Like you can't it can't break the containment it needs to break in any of these categories because it's so expensive. Xbox is going to run into this. There's a reason why the PS7 is going to be pushed back to infinity and beyond. Like I'm convinced if the Switch 2 came out a year later uh, it might be like I I the Switch 2 is doing fine. Uh, I think it would be like further dead in the water. Like all it would just it wouldn't have had the time to get in.

Yeah. Um, but Valve has said that they don't want to subsidize, right? Like that that is that that is part of the deal. That's part of why it is the price that it is. Because
My lizard brain is arguing about this.
Sure.
Like so in the article, I want to find where it is uh specifically. I believe it's from PC Gamer. It's in the show notes. Um they are because of its religious refusal to build a more closed system. So, their argument is the reason why And And Will, tell me if I'm missing something here.
Mhm.
They're saying that the reason they don't want to subsidize the console like every other console maker has done since time before time.
Mhm.
Um is they want to their belief is to not have it be locked behind a system
Mhm.
that

like that's the only thing it could be under. And that the that the value prop is it's only worth it to subsidize it if you lock it down.
Correct.
I think their I All hail Valve. But I think this is a misstep.
I will tell you why it's not.
Well, hold on. Let me let me finish my thought, and maybe you can change my mind. Um they're saying that this is because of a closed system. They don't want like because the only value prop behind that is a closed system. Their system isn't closed, but they know for 95% of the users of this thing and who they're trying to sell it to, it is.
Okay. So, you cast your mind back to the halcyon days of Get out of here. 2011.
Go.

When Blu-ray was new and the PlayStation 3 came out. Do you remember who bought like a metric crap ton of PlayStation 3s. The US government
Yeah.
And the US government bought a crap ton of PlayStation 3s and built a cluster computer on Sony's dime because it was cheaper to do that given the prevailing price of the component electronics than it was to do to buy all of those components any other way even for the government at government like bulk sale prices.
The difference though is Steam has a system in place now that would make it so that couldn't happen if they didn't want it to. You have to buy it you're getting reserved things on a on your Steam account to get the console. They could keep doing that. Like there's ways around getting away from that particular

issue.
Well, one of the ways that they can get around that particular issue is by removing the impetus to do it for that purpose. Right? By release and I think it would be in um
But they've already solved that problem like they that's a problem that they they already have another solution for. I think truly they just don't want to. And listen, that's fine. I I don't think it's an altruistic thing though. I think it is what they think is best for their business which could also have altruistic aspects but I don't think they're doing this as a consumer protection.
So, I think it might not be consumer protection but I don't think they want to sell the the um I don't think that they want to sell a product to PC gamers that they don't believe has all of the functionality of a full self-built PC.
But I would argue that this thing's

whole point is to sell to not PC gamers. Like I think that's the whole point of it. They want that market share.
Matt, I think there's only one way we can settle this.
Objection!
[music]
Hold it! DID WE FIND OUR FIRST ONE?
We found our first nerd court.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [laughter] Okay. We've never done this before, and now we have to come up with the rules on the fly cuz we didn't know we'd be arguing about this. Um okay. So,
How do we want to do We should make some rules.
So, here's how I think this should go, okay? Uh we'll flip a coin to see who goes first, but I think we each get to have approximately 60 seconds to like a minute and a half where the other person has to vamp while someone like just preps their argument, and then they get to go, and then we go vice versa. Does that make sense?
Uh I mean, maybe. Uh that's

Unless Unless you want it to just be off the cuff.
I think I think I think we established what the stakes are. So, I think we get I think for today, we might do the prep thing in the future, but for today, I think we each get a minute to present our argument, and then we'll get like a minute to rebut, and then
No, a minute to present, 30 seconds to rebut. Oh, uh Hold on. Okay. Excuse this I'll take too long. I have a countdown timer that I could have grabbed and put I It'll be fine. It's not worth it.
Yeah.
Um I'll just time it. I'll time it on my phone. Do do do do do. Uh we have to figure out who's going first. So, a minute a minute to give our case, uh and then 30 seconds to rebut,
and then chat will vote.
Okay, great. Who So, do we want to uh flip a coin if I have a Here's my challenge coin. Uh

you will be Drink deep and descend Will and I will be the other lancer robot.
Okay, great. Excellent.
Here we go. It's the other lancer robot so I will go first.
Okay, great. Excellent.
Okay, we don't have music for this. Uh
No, I don't I don't think we need We'll We'll We'll We're working on all of this. Yeah, we didn't plan on doing this.
We didn't plan on doing this. I just realized that where we were at, it was too perfect to not do this. So
Actually Will, could you time me so I'm not worried about my time and you could cut me off?
Yep.
And then I'll time you.
Yep, you got it. I'm putting 1 minute on the countdown.
Oh, that is the lich. You're right. It's the lich. Good call about that and that that is true.
All right.
Here we go. Good. Okay. I think that the argument that Steam is making to not have a closed system air quotes to basically make sure that they don't subsidize their own console is a decision they are

making predominantly for the health and profitability of Steam and Valve and not a consumer protection. I think there might be elements that actually do cause good things to happen but I don't appreciate the machination of having this be something that seems good for the consumer when Steam itself for 95% of users is going to be a closed system. That about a minute?
That was 30 seconds.
OH, I CAN KEEP GOING. ALSO, LIKE and subscribe and smash that like button. Hit that bell. Also, don't trust corporations even the good ones cuz if you do, they will inevitably let you down because corporation leadership eventually changes.
Close enough. That was 50.
Okay. Okay. Do you want to rebut or do you want to
No, I can I can present I can present my I'll I'll present my argument and then you can you're going to rebut and then I'll rebut.
I'll rebut. Okay, we got a lot of butt. Here we go.
So much butts.
So aw, so many butts. Ready Will?
Yeah.
3 2 1 go jam.
I think one of the big things about the Steam console is that Valve is not

interested in selling an altered product. I think that what they they want is they want to not become a walled garden ecosystem, right? Like they they are their purpose is to sell you a machine that does other things and also play Steam. Just like you can use your controller for games that like aren't through it's a USB controller, right? They're they're interested in becoming part of the PC ecosystem, not necessarily having their own ecosystem entirely. I also think that like the most hardcore fans that are the most interested in buying this aren't going to be the ones who are uh just using it for Steam. I think many people will, but there is a certain demographic who who won't want to do that thing. So, I think there's a bunch of good reasons for them to not to choose to not subsidize this.
Okay. Thank you, Will. Two seconds to spare, very good. You put 30 seconds on the clock for my rebuttal here.

I will put 30 seconds on the clock for your rebuttal. Ready?
Here we go, and let's go. Even if everything that Will says is true, they could still subsidize it. They could still do it. They could do it and try to get it better into the marketplace to get to all those people that Will thinks that that they're trying to get to, and I actually think they're trying to get to, too. I just think that they're a little gun-shy because of the price of all the components, and they're they're trying to wrap it in some moral fiber, which I don't think actually withstands the weight.
You had 7 seconds left. That was pretty good.
All right. Oh, I got to get you now. Hold on. Wait. This is fun. I'm having a good time. Give me a moment. Uh 30 seconds on the clock, and you ready?
Yep.
GO!
I think it's not necessarily a moral argument. I think it's a I think it's one of this is the product that they want to make, and I think that that's not necessarily a one, but a design one, right? If your goal is to make a product and to not do a thing like lock it down,

then that's not necessarily a moral one, right? I think that that's a big part of this is that they set out to design this product and I also think it's unfair to ask Valve to absorb the risk of subsidizing stuff during a time
Timer went off.
It's okay.
All right. Good. I think we had some good arguments.
Yeah, I thought I thought that was pretty good. All right. Um uh
So I guess this is weird because this is an odd one to vote on and we do have to decide a winner, but the interesting thing I I I don't think the argument is truly whether like I'm say well, I think at its core Will's saying they shouldn't be subsidizing and I'm saying they should be subsidizing, but the sub the sub of it is I think like Will doesn't think that the way that they actually know, this is what it is. Will, correct me when I'm wrong. You don't think that the way they're positioning this is out of line with

their methodology or or like you think you think those things check out where I think
They're incongruent.
doing a thing and they're incongruent. They don't they don't actually play nice together. That's kind of the thing. So Will's saying all the information in the story plays nice together. I am saying that the information in the story does not play nice together. That's the easiest way to do it, right? Yeah. Okay. Uh we can't do polls on YouTube. That sucks.
Yeah. Uh so um uh I I think Matt is against the status quo and I am for the status quo. So we're going to use yes and no emotes. So chat, if you if you think that um that this that my argument checks out and you believe you believe me, uh spam yes emotes and if you think Matt's argument checks out, spam no emotes.
I will make hashes for the YouTube ones, Will, if you want to you can tally the the uh
I mean, I can I can
What great content we're making right now?
Well, listen, listen, listen. There was

there was a there was a starter poll in in Twitch chat, but yeah, there's yay or nay um uh over here on Twitch, and I believe there are stuff over on YouTube. But YouTube, you got to you got to get involved and and get voting.
Yes is Yes is Will, Matt is No.
Yeah.
Yeah, great.
Yeah. Is Yeah.
And go.
Okay, great. Uh, there is thunder. I just don't have it set up. Yes sub Yes, oopsie. It is yes subsidy or no subsidy. Yes is subsidy, no is uh No, sorry. It's yes status quo or no status quo.
Yeah. This is going to be so
Yeah, we're we're going to plan
get them We're going to get polls working at some point. Uh, they they just we don't have it. We weren't ready for this.
Yeah, we we did not plan on doing this today, and then Matt and I got in a nerd fight, and I was like, no
were like, we have a thing for this.

We Yeah, we literally have uh We we have we have one.
This
[laughter]
Any day now. This is Nerd Court early access.
Yeah, correct.
All right, let's do this for another 20 seconds cuz this is great content. Just us tallying things.
Yeah, no, it's great. Um I like I like Brassens' point. I've paid more for Max that do way less. Why do you use Animal Crossing characters for this?
Uh, eh I don't know. It was fun. Tom Nook Tom Nook is dubious at best.
Yeah. I'm My My point of view
Will's argument is yes, my argument is no. We should we should do it we should do it different next time. Again, this is early access. We don't know what we're doing.
Mhm.
Also, if you're watching the VOD, throw a yes or no in chat or maybe in the comments.
in the comments what you think of the first
and count it.
And don't worry, chat. We're going to make this cleaner and we're going to have rules set up and we'll have sides

picked and we'll have emotes ready and polls working
and all that
all that stuff. So, don't worry about that in the future. This was just too fun to not fire off like randomly. Um yeah.
Uh yeah, that would have been good, too. The two Will's Brastons that this would have been solid to do.
Yeah.
That's probably the best move next time for at least yeah.
Tom Nook has zero interest loans, nice and honest like an unsubsidized price.
That's true. He does. That's why he's saying subsidization subsidization is bad for you. All right, I think that's good.
All right.
So, I had a lot of no's. I had and on YouTube I had nine no's and five yes's.
One, two, three, four. Five
If it ties, I will break this table.
Uh and the poll on Twitch um was 17 to

not many.
To what?
Uh Chat, I need the poll results pulled back up and I have a hard time doing it.
This is going great.
You know. Does Twitch chat have a pro-Will bias? Yes. They're listen they're they they listen to me on the regular and Matt's only here to
Will's indoctrinated Brad.
That's correct. Uh we're 17 for me, but how many for Matt? Uh and we also
still win.
Huh? I don't think you do. I I'm
said I I think you'll win. I think
Oh, you think I I I heard I think I'll win and I was like, I don't Yeah,
Cuz right now 17 plus five is 23.
22.
Total.
And you have Uh
22.
Yeah. And you got 11 on Twitch.
So 11 19. Okay, so 11 and uh
22.
11 21.
Yeah.
No. 20.
Yeah, 20. 11 plus nine is 20.

You I got more than I thought I would.
Hey, that was pretty good though. That was pretty good. All right, we we will have this all locked down. Thank you so much for participating in our first Nerd Court. Um this was very off the cuff and they will be more polished in the future, but
Uh we were literally talking about what we could fight about before the stream and we were like, we can't think of anything and then we fought about something and I WAS LIKE, YES.
YEAH, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. And now you know, if you see me and Will fighting about stuff, you can just spam Nerd Court.
Yeah, and we'll we'll make it happen cuz we'll have we'll have like things set up. All right, uh maybe we'll talk about it some during Destiny, too. While we're while we're running around, if you have if you have thoughts and stuff, we'll we'll we'll talk about it during Destiny. All right, there is another piece of news uh regarding the Steam Machine that we should not ignore, which is that as part of this release, if what you really want is a machine that runs Steam OS, the Steam OS release has been uh expanded to include AMD GPUs. So, the

Steam OS is is the operating system that runs the Steam Deck and the Steam Machine and it's a Linux variant. Um and if all you want is a PC that runs exactly Steam games, you can run Steam OS instead of Windows uh and that's an option for you now. Um if what you And so, that is I think actually the biggest good news out of this whole story is that even if the machine is too expensive for you, if you have components or you can build one yourself or you can put it together, you have a way to get the same experience with a different hardware package. And I think that is a really cool part of this, too, that there is this ability to embrace PC, make your own rig kind of ethos, and to do that in Steam.
Yes. I think this is like the silver lining of this is That is That is where I come down as well. I think that it is absolutely wonderful that this exists, and people could just make their own Steam Machine.
Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
That's That's awesome. Um

I And again, I want to I want to make it very clear. I I'm not like anti-Valve or Steam at all. I just I I think my argument was while they do a lot of great things for a lot of great reasons, I think they're conflating two of their reasons to try to make one of them better or more pro-consumer. But again, I lost. Uh but I think it's awesome, and I loved putting the Steam OS on a Gateway 2000.
Yeah, it was great. Uh okay. In a similar vein to the price of the Steam Machine, however, we should also mention that Xbox at the same time last week or earlier this week announced a significant price hike for the Xbox Series S, uh and they are discontinuing the 2-TB model. So, um the uh prices currently are the Xbox Series S is $400, will be $500 uh for the 512 gig. For the 1-TB, it's

currently $450, and it will be $600. For the Series X 1-TB digital only, it is currently $600 and will be $750. And for the Series X 1-TB with a disk drive, it is currently $650 US and will be 800 wing wings.
This is also uh a reminder for a console that was selling so poorly that Costco de-listed it. The third largest console retailer in the United States was like, "Oh, these don't sell."
Yeah, and this is ostensibly because of RAM prices. Because of hardware prices in general. Because remember, we talk about it like it's just RAM, it is also NVMe.
Yeah, it's everything.
It's everything that uses those memory chips. Um because those are at the the all-time high.
Yeah, maybe. Just maybe we should all be going to our local government ordinances and whatever your data center is being installed anywhere near you and in any

of your districts, just go kick them in the teeth. Yeah, but legally. Legally. And if you don't
speaking, you should vote against data centers everywhere that they are going to be. Um they are terrible and we should make it prohibitively expensive for them to do it. But it's already prohibitively expensive and they're using fake money. So, you know, can't wait for this bubble to pop. Also, here's a thought. Here's a thought. If you're really bored and you want to save some money, get yourself an Xbox, rip the OS off, put Steam OS on. Problem solved. Will it be easy? No, of course not. Will it work? Maybe. Would it be a fun challenge? Yes. I challenge you, internet. Show me the first Xbox running Steam OS.
Does it have the same cuz don't it doesn't need to be an Nvidia something but I think the Xbox has that, right? Isn't there like a There was another thing.
processor architecture should like everything should be compatible like reasonably.
That's a That's an expensive science experiment, but it'd be fun.
Yeah, absolutely. Uh okay. It's time

to talk about a couple of cases where video games have been gaming the law.
[music]
Have you been injured in a video game accident?
D- We're here for you.
Call Kunkle and Kroll where we'll get you what you deserve
from all those people who did you wrong
in the game.
Okay, we got to work on that.
No, what are you talking about? It's magic.
No, absolutely not. Uh okay, uh first up is a new interesting story. Uh the that Sony is being sued. Uh This broke containment and comes to us from MSN.
So, I couldn't find that link. That link didn't work for me.
I updated it.
Oh, sick.
Yeah.

Um the uh It is granted it's a gamerant story on MSN, but like it it broke containment. [laughter] It's on MSN. Um the um This is the same argument that we went through with Steam a while ago. Sony does not have the confirmation that what you're purchasing is a license, not an unlimited like actual thing. You're not purchasing a thing, you're purchasing a license when you buy a digital good from them. Uh and
is they do. What they're arguing is it's not big enough.
Sure. [snorts] Um
That's what like the thing I put in the graphics sticking out, the second line which you can't see is about it being a license. Even though all of the buttons say buy, purchase
Right.
Yeah. Blah blah blah.
So, I'm not sure how well this is going to work or what's going to happen, but this is this is a lawsuit that we'll begin tracking because it will affect a third of the big three at minimum uh and will likely have trickle-down effects

for uh other companies as well. Um so, we'll see. It is in the state of California, but that's California. Reminder, California on its own is like the fifth biggest economy in the world, so it's California, so it's everywhere.
Yeah. Here's a question. Can we think of both Brad and Janet right now? You can leave in the comments if you're or on Blue Sky if you're on Rocky or watching the VOD and you can leave in the comments there. Can we think of a verbage? Cuz I don't love that it says essentially like buy cuz you're not buying it, right? You're you're
to use straightforward language when they're asking for your money.
Buy now and confirm purchase. [clears throat] What would that cuz you need it to be on a button. You need something to be short. So can we put and it looks and I'd love correct helpful answers and the worst answers you can think of right now in the chat. What should that word be on the button instead of buy or confirm purchase?
Check out.
Just check out?
Yeah.
But that check out doesn't make sense if

you're putting multiple things in a cart.
Does it?
So if I'm shopping and it says uh God of War and it says and I'm just in the God of War page and it says check out. It it wouldn't you could put add to cart there and then at the main page write check out.
Right. And then if you don't um you could you know
Activate is interesting Mila. Cuz like here's the other thing. Everyone's saying lease, rent, buy license. Those things won't sell. Do you know what I mean?
Squeeze. Um obtain. Like I actually kind of really like activate. Like you're activating a game on your thing. Like we're so ingrained at least in the United States and I'm sure many other places like with the act of buying something. Right? Like how do you get that across? Download?
Yeah, Steam says continue to payment.

Yeah. Or pay.
Continue to payment and pay. But yeah but Steam doesn't say that. You put add to cart, continue to payment, pay.
Yep. Check out, pay one of those.
Yeah.
Um add to account is also pretty good.
Yeah. So, it's it's just an interesting it's a verbage thing. This is a like a this seems like a nothing burger. This is a nothing burger that will have wide reaching implications depending on how this court case goes.
I think I am I am of two minds on the subject that bring it right back to one mind. And that is I see why Sony or other online retailers don't want to do this because it it confuses consumers who are not as deep into this as we are. And they are right in assuming that people don't like leasing as much as they like buying for things that they used to they are used to buying.
Yeah.
Um but the on the other hand

Yeah. I like that.
We've been kind of lied to for way get get game.
Get game. Get game.
Get game.
Uh we've been lied to for far too long about all of this stuff. And we've been not getting the protections of what we've been they've been selling so far. And so I think it's time. Like it's just time to like normalize if this is where the industry is going, normalize it and let let the market sort it out.
Well, in cases where the market tried to sort it out and didn't because other parts of the market got in a fight about it, I don't even know.
MARKET SLAP FIGHT.
MARKET SLAP FIGHT. The uh Uh the Kadokawa CEO will remain. Uh So, Kadokawa is the majority shareholder in uh FromSoftware. And a bunch of other stuff. Um and the CEO uh was facing what amounts to a vote of no confidence led by a group of

shareholders known as Oasis who are usually described as like activist shareholders. Like they want to shake up their shareholders who want to shake up the status quo. And they were the people that suggested that FromSoftware should be not publishing should be should be doing their own thing uh to maximize profits. And they were attacking Kadokawa's CEO because they said he wasn't making enough all of the money. It wasn't that it was unprofitable. It's that they were making less profit than they should have been.
I believe the technical thing that on the on the call of the CEOs, it went something like this is they said, "Oasis then said um something along the lines of said maybe Elden Ring better pay me. And [snorts] after all

all the money's ours." Right? Like that that's feels like I think that was actually verbatim what happened. Essentially, they they literally said Oh god, it's the quote here that I made Patches say because of course this sounds like something Patches would say. Oasis is asking for transparency, discipline, and a credible plan for how uh Kadokawa will capture more value for one of the most important assets in the global gaming industry. Yeah, capture it like you're a god damn Pokémon trainer. Just make those digital monsters fight in the ring, but make sure it pays me.
I'm looking at you, I choose you.
Yeah, yeah.
[laughter]
Oh no, fiscal responsibility. Um the it's just it's madness. Like these dopes don't understand like one of the reasons why Elden Ring was the the the the breakaway smash hit that it is. And the reason why Dark Souls games and the Soulsbornes and all that have sort of

done it. Not only are they great games, but they are in a world where we are constantly being nickel and dimed, you get a full complete experience. Hell, even Night Rain Night Rain again, I'm sorry I'm such a stand for it, but like it had one expansion. It's not a live service. They've been like this they've been consistently like this is not a live service and I love it so much because it's not Yeah, maidenless behavior. It's not a live service and I think what these people want essentially is they're not they're not happy making some of the money. They need to make all the money. Um
Uh okay, that's enough of that. No no no more no more of this. It's time we've we've been waiting patiently. I think it's time to wake up so we can not snooze on good news.
That's right. There is some good news

this week.
There there is indeed. There are two pieces of it in fact. Number one, it's not great news, but it is good news.
No, I think it's great news.
Okay.
Because I hate I hate that I installed X2KO. And now every time I boot up my computer Vanguard is just on like hanging out like someone that doesn't leave a party when it's over.
That's fair.
It's awful. I turn it off. The order of operations on my PC is boot up, wait for everything to go through, glance at Discord, turn off Vanguard. That's literally my order of up Before I turn on my board. Like it's insane. And now
I don't know why you haven't removed it.
Cuz I still I still toy with League of Legends or whatever. X2KO. Yeah. Um But now as it should be, you can actually turn it to be um only running when the game

is running.
Correct. So, let's get some things straight. Vanguard is still kernel-level anti-cheat. However, they are using some features that Microsoft has installed recently into Windows to verify enough that you're not cheating when you're not playing the game uh essentially to take over the Vanguard duties the rest of the time so you can just have Vanguard running while you're running. So, so people are divided on this. Some people are against kernel-level anti-cheat any of the time. Some people are against kernel anti- kernel-level anti-cheat when they're not playing. Right? And I think um this this is a good step in that direction. Less less kernel-level anti-cheat running on machines is good. I would like there to be no kernel-level anti-cheat running on any machines cuz I

think it's abhorrent, obnoxious, and a grotesque overreach of power by these gaming companies, but I will be happy that it's not running when people aren't running the game. By the way, just a reminder, BattleEye, Easy, and a whole bunch of other things are also kernel-level anti-cheat. They just have the decency to only boot up when you're playing the game. In fact, we had a snafu with it last week and we were only saved by the the two PC system when BattleEye blue screened my gaming PC in the middle of Destiny's tutorial.
Yeah. Yep.
It was great. I loved it. We had to go and fix BattleEye before we could do anything.
To be very clear, this is a kernel-level anti-cheat in a PvE environment.
Well, there is PvP.
but we weren't there.
Correct, but they're not going to I mean, I would like it if they only called it on demand when you entered Crucible, but like, you know. yeah. Um, so, yeah. Uh, I think this is this is good. Uh, yeah, it is like using a flamethrower on a single boss. Yes, correct. There is no

reason that any game needs to be that secure. Really, there really isn't. Like, unless we're playing for like hideous amounts of money, in which case we're probably playing at a LAN. So, it still doesn't need to be that secure cuz a LAN is an isolated system that's set up in advance by a neutral third party. It feels fine to me, but, you know,
in my basement.
Yeah, right, exactly. Um,
duct taped to the ceiling.
Yeah.
[snorts]
You got that.
I did. Who Who Who remembers the kid duct taped to the
Who remembers LAN parties and the and the and the brave soul duct taped to the ceiling?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, okay. So, that's that's um, yeah, I think that would be cool. Yeah, the Steam Machine and SteamOS would be very good for like pushing them in that direction or accepting that like SteamOS has a better way to do anti-cheat, right?
Yeah.

Be very nice. Okay, and the next one is, "Hey, chat, when was the last time you had a game that had a launcher after the launcher?" So, like not not like Final Fantasy XIV or WoW or any of the other stuff where like there's a specific launcher for the thing, but like you bought a game on Steam and then you [snorts] launched the game and then it launched the launcher and then you had to launch the game from the launcher that Steam launched? You hate those, too? I think everyone hates those. They're kind of unnecesa- don't Yeah, Borderlands.
It's literally a place for advertisements. They're like, "You can keep up to date on all of the information about this game." It's like, "I don't need it. I have the game."
Yeah, right.
I don't need the information.
Yeah.
I don't need it.
Yeah, correct. Uh, BG3 has it. Yep, Ubisoft has it. Total War, yep. Everyone has it.
Yep. Except
Except Alcat. Um so, Alcat is the uh studio behind Rogue Trader and several other things.

And uh they were like, "Hey, we're we're adding we're adding a launcher so you can keep up to date with our with our stuff." And that lasted approximately 19 hours.
Yeah.
All of the Alcat fans went, "Bro, no. Try again." And they backed down and took it away.
Which is great.
They undid the stupid update and listened to their customer base who said, "This is terrible. We don't want this. Remove it." And they did.
That's actually really, really good. I wish more places would just listen to things like that.
Yeah, it's it's awesome. Uh good job You know what, Alcat? I appreciate that you listened. Maybe next time listen in advance of spending money and time developing a thing that fans are going to hate.
Maybe, but like I even even I'll give them even more credit for spending that time and money and then realizing that it is still bad and not being like, "But we burned all this time and money." Like there's no sunk cost principle there. They just kind of did the right thing.
Yep, absolutely, 100%. Uh

and then we have what is quite possibly my favorite AI story ever. So, let's let's do let's do a a brief a brief background. Okay. Before AI was LLMs that talked to you and told you that you were the specialist little pony on the planet and that you should uh believe that you are unique and special and that everyone else else is out to get you and also, you know, bad financial advice and illegal things and the mushrooms aren't toxic and whatever. AI was machine learning. It's a it's a methodology for having a system evolve through repetition of tasks to become more efficient at those tasks. That's the basis of like the the training that we're talking about. Um and I know there's going to be someone who quibbles in chat. It's com- that's close to

Yeah, we are we are dialing [clears throat] it down
Yeah.
so much.
Yeah, correct. Okay. One of the problems with LLMs is that people seem to keep anthropomorphizing them, right? One of the things that happens every time one of the major models update is that there are floods of posts on like social media and Reddit that like it's not the same. It doesn't care about me the same way anymore. And I'm like, bro, it's a magic eight ball. It's a Boggle game.
Maybe maybe we should stop skinning them like anime characters. And then perhaps that might
Yeah. So, what if instead of skinning the math like a person,
Right.
we skinned the math uh like a goat. And that's what someone did. So, a uh a a Microsoft researcher built a neural network, that's the basis of of machine learning in LLMs, in Age of Empires II?
Yes.

Uh this is Microsoft AI researcher Adrian de Winter. What a fantastically Age of Empires II name, by the way.
Oh my god, it's just badass in general. But yes, now that you say it.
Um and uh it used Age of Empires II to build a neural net out of goats. And I absolutely love how well this makes the point that like the thing that we are referring to as a person or endowing with personhood is just complex math. And if you undo the veneer of personhood, you can see it's just goats running around. Right? It's a lot of goats running around. It's It's a lot a lot of goats running around and doing things, but it's still just goats. It's still just math. It's not smart. It's not actually intelligent. It just appears intelligent because it's predicting the words using this

repetition of of training to get to this place.
Yeah. Here's Here we go. Velder brings up a good counterpoint here, which I'm curious we can sort of talk through. I read about this, didn't feel like it made the point it was trying to make. If I cut apart someone's brain, that doesn't look like a person either. Right? Like I get that methodology. The interesting bit here, I think, is I I wonder I wonder if the I wonder if the take is like we still understand that the thing that was a human brain was a human brain.
Yep.
It's not another thing pretending to be a human brain. Like we didn't cut open a cantaloupe and say like, "Look, both of these things can be cut open." Like it it it it's it's They're the same. They're roughly the same size.
And And I And I think there is a um
Also, not real goats. These are goats in in Age of Empires II. To be very clear, these are like things in the game that

are doing the job. I believe, and you can look at it in the show notes, but basically it made like um it did so I sort of forms of simple binaries, right? So, uh grass represents zeros and bridges represented ones, and goats played the role of bits.
Yep. Uh and uh yes, this is also true. Sam Altman has tweeted saying that uh the people saying please and thank you cost OpenAI tens of millions of dollars. So, if you must use it, do be ever so polite to your to your LLMs because you're actively costing OpenAI tens of millions of dollars and that's the duty that I expect of you as as fine citizens of the internet. Um, no, I think I think the thing that's important is that there is an effervescent That's not the word I'm looking for. An ephemeral quality to the notion of consciousness which is not um
Sorry. I just like this. Make AI look like the

thing that killed the yard [laughter] in the next generation.
No, it's great. So, I think we recognize like we cannot see how the disassembled human, right, achieves consciousness. We can see how like despite black box transformation arguments, we can see how this works. We know how this works, right? This is a creation of of like very finite understanding. Um, like I can walk you through this math given 6 hours, right? And and a fair amount of diagrams and lots of goats. But like
also I do also like Feldar's sort of response to it. It's like, "Sure, but neurons from a worm brain look like neurons from a human brain for what it's worth." Uh AI uh for what it's worth I don't think AI is actually intelligent. I just don't think this demonstrates that. I think this doesn't do a I don't think this does an absolutely perfect job demonstrating it. I think

what it does is it hits it from another angle. Like it it it's you can talk through it like Will said, like 6 hours of math. There is a certain group of people that would be able to look at this thing and be like, "Oh, yeah, I I get what it's trying to go for." Yeah, I don't think it's like it's not checkmate. Uh but I I like
It It shows that there is a thing underlying it which is not personified.
Right.
Right? Like there is there is a thing underlying it and we have chosen to personify those mathematics and that the math
has a conversation as opposed to just showing what it's actually doing. Here are two things. One is dealing with language, one is dealing with fake goats. It's the same thing running it.
Yes, that I think that is a good way of doing it.
With with the same amount of non-understanding of what it's actually doing.
Yep. Right.
Um but yeah, no, I think it's a super interesting conversation. And I like I like that it's just another it's another thing.
Yep. Absolutely. And remember, uh because a machine can never be held

accountable, a a machine must never make decisions. Just remember that, right? Can't hold a machine accountable, machine must never make decisions as we descend ever deeper into this godforsaken trenches of But my AI told me it's a good idea. Shut up.
Wow, you went full South Park character there for a second.
I'm so tired of people being like, but the AI told me.
I I'm on the I'm on the PC Gamer thing and there's like, you know, it says like 90 ads and then like you may like stories in it. The thing that I just scrolled by and I'm not clicking it is Grok 4.1 quote instructed the user to drive an iron nail through the mirror while reciting Psalm 91 backwards in latest AI psychosis study. Cool.
Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Uh
Okay. All right. Okay.

Okay. I'm going to You know, this is supposed to be good news and now we're in
It was good news. It is good news.
Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yep. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yep.
It's good news.
Sure.
You know what else is good news? While the show is over, we will be continuing on Twitch playing Destiny 2 and just vibing out. So, thank you everybody for watching this episode of Games for Breakfast over on YouTube, over on Twitch, or if you are a Rocky over on Nebula. Thank you so much for watching over there. You just watch this completely ad-free other than the ads for things you couldn't buy during the other ads. Um Anything else before we go, Will, other than our patented sign-off?
No. We'll be back next week with where I'm taking another shot of Me and the Hollower. We've got the return of the Rogue Review and Design Club will be back next Tuesday. Jeff is currently traveling, which makes it hard to plan those, but normally we'll be able to tell you uh for from here on out we should be able to tell you on breakfast what Design Club is going to be about and point you to where the stream is

going to be. Uh can't do that today. Jeff is traveling. So
Is but is there a Design Club next week? Or is it going to be a randomly one?
There is a Design Club on Tuesday. I just don't know what it's going to be yet.
What time is it
It's 2:00 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday.
So you know where you should be or where you can watch it after the fact. Please go check that out. Um it'll be very interesting. I guess that only leaves us with our patented um end of end of episode tradition. As we all know, it's the same every time because we want to foster a sense of community. It used to be going into the week, now it's ending the week. It's the weekend. Hopefully everybody can have a decent time, play some games, see your family and friends, and just vibe out. So with that in mind, I just want to say as always, and please join me in saying it, goodbye. Have a great weekend.
Or

buh.
[music]