Panel: What is the Future of Mobile Advertising?

[Music] [Music] so we're going to have a panel next um where we're going to hear about all the um i'm just reading my my thing here so yes it's the future we're going to look into the future do a bit start future gazing on the future of mobile advertising i'm hoping everybody's checked themselves in and made sure that um we've got them either mike got the mics or we've got them with that miced up with their lapel mics um for this for this 40 minute panel hopefully we'll get through for 30 minutes and have some good talk and then have a good 10 minutes q a it's really nice to see so many familiar

faces so i'm going to without further ado step into this lovely panel um and i'm going to get kay to introduce everybody so hopefully we'll whip through a few good conversations and then we'll have some time for questions hopefully okay at the end of all of this i'm going to let you know when you've got 10 minutes to go so if you're still chattering away just keep it going all right thank you all right do we have a microphone somewhere hello hi everybody um i just made it in time i'm very sorry but uh i'm very happy to see uh a full room this is awesome and it's actually really real people on not on screens what a weird thing last time i've seen this was three years ago i think actually here in london um i have an awesome panel today here with a bunch of experts that know a lot more about the subject than i do which is why

i enjoy doing these panels so much my name is kai i'm in games since a little while 20 something years i've been doing pc playstation console mobile mostly the last decade or so and i am going to hand it over to my panelists to introduce themselves because they're old enough and they know much better what they do um let's start at the end hi everybody sorry hi there everybody i'm kristen rivers uh i'm co-founder and ceo of in-game ad network add-in mo so we're a non-interruptive ad platform our reason for existence is we want to what to retain player immersion uh keep players in your game and and do that as well by monetizing the the actual gameplay time instead of the the interstitial moments that we're all used to for in-game advertising we do this with click-free non-interruptive ad units

hello everybody good evening my name is umberto uh i work at the industry for around seven years well still in the beginning uh always with marketing uh ua monetization data both in the network side and in the gaming site so which gave me a very interesting uh panorama of the differences of working in each side and seeing what is coming in terms of advertising for the future thank you hi everyone my name is shalom michaeli i am the managing director of fiber here in emea fiber was acquired around a year ago by digital turbine alongside with that colony and appreciate if you heard about it so today we operate one of the largest independent mobile growth platforms we help on the supplies and publishers to

monetize their games with our different variety of products including the furby mediation the fiber marketplace and our offerable edge on the demand side we help advertisers to get exclusive access to our oems and carriers alongside helping them with user acquisition programmatic user acquisition activity with our single tap technology thanks hi guys i'm william meltzer i'm vp of sales at emea for moloko we launched the office in london a couple of years ago there's 30 of us now we're a performance dsp so our modus operandi is to run user acquisition campaigns and drive positive rows at scale for our developer clients awesome uh well my name is daniel helmholtz i'm the vp of growth at big fish games for those who don't know big fish is part of the aristocrat family now known as pixel united so along with product madness as well as pellerium big fish has a number of games that are in the casual casino space big fish

casino cooking craze gummy drop and our most recent success which is evermerge we're always looking for great partners and right now we're looking for great studios and games so if you've got a great studio or game especially in the casual space we'd love to talk to you uh me personally i started my career at google i've been at kabam uh built the marketing organization at fox next game which launched marvel strikeforce led marketing for capcom usa and been a big fish for last year and excited to be here with everybody great panel awesome thanks so much everybody um what i would like to do is set the stage a little bit the topic is actually fairly big and in the chats that we had initially to prepare for this panel we were trying to find our way through the jungle of of the headline but if we look back over the last two years there's been some pretty drastic changes not just in everyday life but also in the industry on things like the changes that we've seen in

on apple's platform on ios um quite drastic um they had an impact on what we did the whole pandemic had an impact especially on the advertising industry you know one point budgets were being pulled left and right um then they were not and they came back and um i think there's there's a lot to uh kind of shine a light on um you know 2022 we'll see the continuation of some of these trends for sure um working from home is a thing now personally i think that's awesome that probably doesn't have the biggest impact on on the this part of the industry but maybe it has remote education continued level of on low levels of business travel we're here now which is awesome so we can talk about these things um and let me start off by asking a big question uh initially um if you look at the the industry and if you look at the advertising sector

in mobile is there one thing that that you expect over the next 12 months to be really really important for everybody to have an eye out on any particular trend any particular technology maybe that's coming up i think that would be interesting to know what what you guys see there briefly no not well thank you um well different standpoints uh from this endpoint of a gaming publisher we at castle's game are the second biggest publisher in latin america i would say that uh the consolidation of mediation tools uh would be really really important everybody's talking about nft blockchain all of this i rather stick to what is making money now not that i am not very

excited and bought some crypto punks but uh it's like a the consolidation of mediation too so now we're going to have uploading and max iron source fiber all billion dollar companies they are consolidating and expanding the smaller ones are well getting behind and for us um from the monetization standpoint well what is coming is very exciting because either we're going to see google becoming more involved because admob is a platform many of us can agree uh does not have the same kind of resources that the other wants to have and uh perhaps the full implementation of header reading at least in most networks we'll finally talk about bidding and leave waterfalls behind and see how we're going to operate in this new scenario and probably publishers will ask for more transparency over the

whole process to see exactly where our dollars are being taken or not taken i see a lot of naughty transparency i like the transparency sure i can relate um what we see i think as a trend in the next you know maybe 12 months we can categorize them in two buckets well the first bucket can be a bucket of the the traditional basically uh ad formats take a look about the interstitials and rewarded videos that we have today and within this advertising format we see that uh we see that within the out game play scenario because when you use intersection over the video you're not necessarily within the gameplay you're out of the gameplay we see more and more uh brand demand partners coming in and those demand part and those brand demand partners are coming because they see that finally there's a higher adoption of additional technologies like the om sdk the open measurement sdk that enables those brand

demand partners finally see what kind of supply they are buying so this is definitely encouraging to finally see the additional brands are coming in and this those ad units those ad formats are connected directly to the game economy virtual currencies um and in the other bucket of trends that we see now is the emerging new side of in-game advertising the audio ads the the brand billboard that is that is running embedded within the game and those add-ons are part of the game the gameplay part of the user experience so in order to understand what will happen in the future we'll have to understand at what extent app developers and and publishers will have basically a be able to decide if ad experience is part of the ad economy there are many app developers out there that build their complete monetization strategies are as part of their ad economy and if they change one of those advertising strategies then it impacts their retentions their impacts their abilities to give users a virtual currencies so eventually we'll have to

understand how those app developers whether they're integrating those incremental ad formats and measure the they increase the change or they actually stick with the existing ones because the existing ones are here to stay there is such a rooted connection between advertising ad experience to game economy that on so many applications that is not changeable and this is something that we definitely will see in the next several months i'll just add that thanks shalom you just said everything i was going to say so that was made my life easier um i mean the non-intrusive ad formats you know whatever they look like audio in-game video animated billboard etc uh clearly there's both sides of this that have to come together right the um i think and this is something cool looking backwards the last 12 months 24 months um it's become from the advertiser side as you said brands are starting to look at this space finally i know we've been talking about this for two decades but finally brands are actually starting to

look at the space uh so the demand side is coming in and then the um on the other hand and you know i think william you'll probably disagree with how i'm going to say this uh so bear with me on this is the this is probably too strong award but the the decline of performance advertising right you know it's uh it's been a challenge for many of the game developers and so they are looking for additional monetization streams which again means they're willing to experiment with new types of ad formats so again that's been a a tailwind for us a tailwind for the industry i think the other one that i would layer on top of all of this as well is the just this um you know whether you call it uh att whether you call it uh ios 14 but this this concept of privacy now and and players uh audiences are thinking more about their privacy and i think that's good i think that's good for us as an industry we should be thinking about rather very intrusive ways of how do we how do we shove ads in front of these uh

these players how do we create more personalized brand experiences more personalized advertising experiences and whether that's using the data that we have internally whether that's using ml of your partners like us but finding ways to to create those great experiences in a privacy respecting manner i think is the other trend that we'll see over the next 12 months you know it's interesting in in mobile gaming the concept of brand marketing is something that i think is oftentimes not prioritized because it has this legacy association with people who run campaigns that don't actually care about performance which is valid but i think what we have the chance to see now is kind of the emergence of what a new form of brand marketing looks like that is conscious of the ua and performance realities that we all live in and notices the impact that a brand can make in the way that it can take one of our biggest challenges i think in the coming year which is rising cpi's decreased efficiencies challenges with roasts you know decreasing organics

and helped to augment that by recognizing that brand also means the value with which you deliver to users within your ua ads that that is brand it's just taking it from a different angle that allows digital marketing and ua to be directly connected to brand and so i think you know the term brand marketing gets a bad rap because we bring all these old things into it but i think uh it's going to be more necessary than ever we just need to redefine it yeah i think the the transparency is a brand safe environment along with caveats and i think there's a space for performance and brand across across the ecosystem it's great to see it's great to see the improvements over time um yeah and i think uh transparency both supply side and demand side and i think maloco offers a fully transparent demand side platform to its clients as long as that comes back to us from the supply end as well i think we're in a pretty good spot thank you gentlemen um so talking about talking about different forms of monetization hybrid was a big topic last

year right um personally i think that's uh that's going to continue um with everything you said um is that true um is a strategy for a developer or a publisher a monetization strategy that utilizes not just iops but also ads um really important is it getting ever more important or can you still rely solely on one of them um to actually have a successful product from your point of view kind of why wouldn't you if you can monetize both both ends of the spectrum right we're seeing uh strong performance when it comes to hybrid casual games um our sweet spot is iap and while we're targeting those high value users and picking them up all the other users and the users we do pick up that do make an iap are driving ad revenue so that's uh we're seeing a lot of expansion on that side of on that side of the equation

okay definitely i agree it will continue uh being hybrid model i think that you know we it's funny topic because recently we're speaking with one of the biggest publishers out there that was doing 100 iep and suddenly started embedding you know ads and now they encounter 99.15 iep and 0.8 is his ads right it's nothing it just started but those publishers are definitely thinking about it i don't think that anyone can allow themselves to be only that or that the hybrid model has to exist and the how publishers embed them relies mainly on the data that they connect the how smart they can be around user segmentation what kind of technologies and capabilities they get from their partners the smarter and that more advanced the smarter they will be on adjusting the right product to their clients yeah i mean the the reason there weren't more hybrid models especially with iep heavy games was was a general fear right and fear driven by ignorance that was because of a lack of data that informed how you could effectively segment hold

out uh and deliver more you know player friendly and player first ads and he looked especially like a mid-core game well there was this belief in the industry that if you show an ad there's no way you can intelligently show ads to a mid-core gamer because no matter what they're going to make you more via iap and you don't want to scare them off this is this is again a legacy belief that the additional data better in-game ad integrations better segmentation allow us to address and so i think we still have to collectively overcome some of that you know that fear that is that is simply via the need for education uh but i mean we've made huge leaps and bounds lately and so i think anyone who's not thinking hybrid is is thinking a bit of an outdated school thought sorry i'll all a little more um as a publisher as a developer you have probably the one with the best views on this um we we're leaning into hybrid i mean i think this is where the the other part of it that we love is it's not just are we monetizing this

player with an ad or we monetize them with an iep um you know what we have features that allow you to to show as a developer to show ads for your iaps you know this is in-game inventory you have already uh you know you probably as a as a developer as a publisher as a savvy one you're already promoting events you're promoting other types of ip uh features that you may have you know why not not just in the interstitial moments but if we have this in-game uh non-intrusive parts of it let's let's advertise it there as well again back to understanding the players creating that experience for them understanding at what point they might be receptive to an iep ad not just receptive to other churning out whatever well uh i used to have a manager in a company that i worked for and she was very tough but extremely bright and everything was about data data data for her you know and helped me a lot through my career and to improve myself as a professional and i think that's the point here about iap

and monetization it's about us you graciously put here about data how much data do we have to work to understand our players to do the right cohorts we at gazelles i would say roughly 70 30 or 60 40 depending on the the game of our of our games it's our iap monetization and we want of course to be more equilibrated on this uh what i can see right now is that uh our monetization partners all right ad monetization partners they're actually helping us to build a good iap environment inside games so we can spend more in user acquisition uh so it's a win-win situation if well well built for both sides so i think the future definitely is a breed and i i see the company is converging uh to help

what metrics do you look at in a title when you want to turn it or convert it into a hybrid casual from hyper it's it's a bit tough i would say an equilibrium between how much i make in terms of ecpm by and the frequency of ads that i'm showing to my users because i can i can be very aggressive depending on the title uh and in some cases depending on how premium uh the game that i that i have works so for example we are making games in partnership with netflix we just launched one it's called domino's battle and in this game we want to work with a hybrid model so we're looking right now we will push the users out so retention right now is the main thing that i am

looking will push the users down either with ads or with iaps because i want to keep this amazing brand working with me i want to keep the users happy but i need to make money as well and i think finally i would just plug like any time you have to pivot for an existing game the integration is going to feel more slapped on and so this is why it's so important that in the game design process from the very earliest days you're thinking about how to put admonish in-app ads because they're going to create a better user experience they're going to be more seamless than what you would put on you know six months after launching yeah it's actually interesting you mentioned netflix i'm i'm curious how that's going to develop because right now if you look at these subscription platforms um apple arcade netflix um i think there's one or two others that might be might be emerging over there um you know their primary model is subscription so they actually don't need to make money necessarily in the face that they're

investing into their platforms and and increasing the reach but eventually that's uh going to be a question that's going to be asked right especially by the developers so i'm curious to see how that um how that goes and um ads are an interesting you know form of making it happen there just just a point we already have ads in a netflix game rewarded video so uh yeah it's uh it is happening cool awesome way ahead um talking about ed's video ads that was something that um saw a nice increase in rise uh in the last year on any anything on the horizon for that is it going to continue i'm going to ask again i think it's awesome i've seen some some really cool formats developed there on all kinds of different types what do you see happening there this year is it going to continue is it going to be more is this something that definitely you need to have on your radar as a

developer as well so video definitely growing massively there are different you know aspects to how do you embed video that as a said over here that impacts your attention right the user experience the user acquisition is the most important or one of the most important parts how do you embed videos that maintain the retention slash chart rates and how do you actually increase revenues for that you have to have strong you know platforms that enable you to give the right a b testing to conduct those tests in addition to that additional you know embedded new uh verticals like we said the brand videos are getting in what i said by by the way before that about brands stepping in brands will continue increasing and but that will not necessarily stop what we have today the rewarded video performance reward the video interstitials will continue dominating that will continue to be the lion's share of the publishers the next foreseeable future but additional formats like the like brands and who

doesn't like to see a beautiful brand ad as a rewarded video for 30 seconds right it's in it it engages you you actually you know not necessarily putting the phone uh aside and waiting for those 30 seconds you're actually engaged so i think that those ad units will continue rising and video as a whole due to the competition that we have with the programmatic side as the competition increases the prices will continue evolving growing in the industry cool so yeah video we love it um i think it's worth loving um i think consumers and users typically enjoy enjoy the format especially rewarded um our expansion as a business has basically been on video and it delivers value from a performance perspective um why wouldn't it the unit itself can be adapted to playable or interactive in any format too so it gives a lot of opportunity to to engage

users and consumers if you're a brand in multiple different ways so i think it's a vital piece of the puzzle from a monetization perspective you know testing and data are key to facilitating this but we always need to remember you know garbage in garbage out right you're only going to find the best amongst the things you bring to the table so you need to have an amazing creative team you need to invest in that team you need to have them have a data orientation so you can find that blending of creativity and and performance uh well i think that uh either if we talk about the traditional networks or if you talk about new networks like admix adimo video will still like be one of the most important the most important format for a couple of years to come uh the best cpms and we have to understand that like we are in this bubble here um between europe and

north america but if you look at the rest of the world look at latin america uh look at the southeast asia there is a lot of space for video to be expanded to be like to growth there is a lot of space to video growth uh and this is very interesting sorry i'm gonna what i'm going to say i'm looking through my lens right so um apologies it probably does come across as a bit negative but i would argue that there's been almost no um innovation in video in the last year the innovation's been where can we place the closed box now that the the user won't be able to find it right and that's you know i think that's a lot of innovation's been that um and i don't think i don't think players love video except for rewarded video i mean there's a real there's a real benefit to that but i think in general and again i look at this through our lens i feel that video other than rewarded doesn't serve a

purpose for the player it may serve a purpose for the it absolutely serves a purpose for the developer it's monetization right we need that it may serve a purpose for brands although i'm not convinced that 30 second video is the right format either so i used for paramount pictures and you know ours was always two and a half minute video that's just your standard trailer right i don't think that's right either so i don't know where that where that magic spot is i kind of suspect it may be a shorter form uh video but again i look to you guys who have more experience in this on the interstitial side than me yeah or maybe it's up to the developers to actually come up with a good um idea of how to integrate that into the game flow and make it actually worth the players time right this is exactly where this app economy is coming in like how do you as a developer kick in and decide okay that's important for me because i give this user coins those coins enable him to you know progress within the games right and this is a part of the you know thinking and the strategies that you know conducted while developing the game

to actually as you just said okay maybe it's not necessarily beneficial for the user as user experience this balance will have to be taken by the developer to understand exactly how they would like to navigate their strategies because it can come one on top of another it can come in together but i think in the next 12 months we'll see how developers you know build them in one in in the titles and embed those strategies together yeah cool can be interesting to see that uh talking about the the future um there's one thing one topic we can't get around uh anymore uh definitely especially not in an industry conference the metaverse um i am very curious um to get your initial take on what is this going to be in terms of advertisement is it going to be completely different is it going to start with what we know i guess that's probably the the case um but do you see the potential for

whatever somebody wants to build there um to be the sort of something completely different also in terms of the business that you're running and the slice of the market that you're in the metaverse advertisement in the meta wars we started it here i'll uh i'll start with because of course we view ourselves as a metaverse advertising company within atimo i mean we think that's mobile gaming is kind of stepping stone to the metaverse and whatever your definition i think is part of the problem is every single person in this room will have a different definition of what the metaverse is or what what it's going to become um but we think we certainly think that we'll be led by mobile you know mobile is the it's the largest gaming platform out there i personally believe that the the metaverse is going to be more about enhancing your reality and less about i'm going to show my age here less about putting a vr headset on and snow crashing into the metaverse i think this is going to be something that's going to be more uh more reality driven reality enhancing

but then you know to pick it apart i think there's a few different things you know are these experiences is it metaverse is it ar vr um i think web 3 nfts all this kind of stuff come into it as well and i think each of these i have to be honest i was when i first heard about nfts i was very much a skeptic of nfts and gaming i've changed my mind on that by talking to people that are smarter than me about it um and i think they're i think the interesting one is for for advertising in particular around that what that may look like what i don't know yet and i would love to get everybody else's input on this is as you said is what does the what does the advertising feel like as a person participating in the metaverse and what does it i think in particular we from our view we have our thoughts on what monetization may look like but what does ua look like in a metaverse perspective that's the one that i'd be honest i don't have my head around yet well i won't venture yet on how ua will look like in the matter verse but i will digress a little bit

uh i think that this should be called like metaverse 2 or 3.0 because uh we had our first experiences with the metaverse uh well let's let's go back to the first um online gaming experience counter strike len houses and then online and then we had second life i don't know if you guys remember or ever like has about second life which is literally the metaverse is the same stuff everything that is 2009 second life but what i think that we do have right now in the metaverse that is completely different is technology we have 5g we have very very uh fast internet speeds we have gaming companies uh on it we have the best minds on it back then uh yes a lot a lot of money on it uh and and this is another team for uh

discussion and we don't have a lot of time but i like to put it here that is the amount of money that the government's printed all around the world and uh that allowed this kind of thing to be developed that fast which is amazing like the technology and everything that is being generated but uh all these mergers and acquisitions will it like be kept in a scenario of inflation five percent of inflation for europe this never happened you know seven percent i think for the u.s this never happened so from the standpoint of investors and gaming companies that many gaming companies are investors as well uh is it a fad is it is not a fad it will survive when things hit because let's suppose if something happens in eastern europe or not mentioned no political stuff here but the oil goes up over hundred and twenty dollars what will happen where the money will go interest rates where they will

be hiked or not so we have to take this into consideration when talking about the metaverse because we're literally seated and taken vaccines for two years with governments pumping money all around and now we're going to have a normalization eventually but practically i'm very very very excited and i think it will change a lot of things but first there will be a lot of strange things and then we'll have a lot of nice things i'm going to speak about avatars and it's a little bit different so in terms of metaphor uh think about you know we will be represented by different avatars right something like that and this completely speculation this is how i think and how will we you know be represented over there you have a nike hat you have adidas shirt there are vans you know shoes and this is another area for brand awareness right so this is one area i don't know how advertising will look like but this can be one of them another one can be on user acquisition

the same avatars in the same reality meta realities creating some additional gaming within a game is fair so it back to the future some somehow because really that you know those build boards those advertising billboards were available on the roads maybe 20 years ago and i will find them in a virtual reality i think that this is where we're going but that's again very early stage to say so i love the way you brought geopolitics into this conversation it's amazing never heard it um yeah i think i think we should also think about the subscription economy um what's microsoft up to at the moment um i think there's a there's a land grab going on um at the sort of at the very top end of our sort of our space at the moment um what ua looks like i think it's hard to say um but what what are the uh what are the placements or the units that can be advertised there but i think suddenly there will be a push for ongoing engaged subscribed users um how they get found um well and in what spaces that's

another matter yeah and i guess um there's a chance for hyper customization per um per avatar but uh then we're getting into the whole area of privacy again as well so um that's uh that's certainly a a pit to navigate there um okay um time flies i think we have four minutes left if i'm not mistaken uh there's one thing i really like to do always when talking on when moderating the these panels is i like to leave the audience with something um that is either a resource that you guys recommend um to dig a little bit deeper into the topic a blog a book um a website or anything that um that we can take home with and um go a bit more deeper into the topic or have uh have something to um to be prepared for the future um love to go around and see if you guys have any tip

or hint for us right um good i get to go first because it's probably one that everybody knows anyway so you know i presume that most of the audience in here already listened to the deconstructor fund podcast uh i mean that's a great one it's so great so i got to throw that one out and i have to think about my next one um i guess after that the the the two other things that i look to uh one for more just kind of general general where in the world does technology sit another podcast is pivot you know kara swisher scott galloway they're very good at kind of giving some context as to including the political context of of the impact of our of tech and then um another one again many of you guys will know because he's been in the industry for many years but i love just for his visionary views is rob tursak uh you know follow him and just kind of he's he's looking five to seven years out there and and i don't always agree with everything that he's he's predicting but i think he has a really brilliant head

on his shoulders as he's thinking about these things well i think that um your recommendation was quite good um since i already digressed so why not again a book is a very good recommendation uh it's called on china from henry kissinger because we never mentioned china and the metaverse and and i'm very curious to know how it's going to be a very very regulated metaverse perhaps they're already in the metaverse i mean it's uh you have a scar point at least so uh i'm curious to know uh how it's going to develop especially over there so podcast definitely the constructor are fun so one for that a book start with why by simon sinek you know guys just um why we're doing whatever we're doing why

we are you know working where we're working why we just you know have our hobbies the way we have our hobbies whatever we do in our life not necessarily work related is a definitely recommended book uh for personal development and for just you know thinking about the reasons behind our actions so that's my recommendation i think something i've been uh watching recently is youtube channel called cold fusion um it covers some quite big power moves uh in the space it's worth worth subscribing to and just seeing what they've got going on in there all right i'm glad you didn't take it all of mine uh uh i mean another another probably clear one for everyone but it's just anything eric c for writes mobile dev memo uh i mean he oh yes great resource for everybody in every part of the industry so yes i got one well and last but not least certainly uh pocketgamer has a wealth of information out there as well and on youtube you can watch all kinds of panels and and talks and

i find that also a very interesting source of information do we have some time for questions awesome chest testing testing good any questions by all means say it's irrelevant but i'm conscious that you know vcs funded my scooter trips and they're funding my groceries are they stealing your customers by funding ua because they put a lot of money into blockchain gaming and stuff like that is it a lot of money in market terms or is it does it not matter they're gonna steal users thanks i i mean at least from a publisher standpoint i would say that we can't complain but always could be better you know yeah it's tough to understand how many of these companies are spending just irrationally right whether the money is from vcs or from certain countries where

the thought of investment happens differently uh you know i think there are definitely players you see spike in the market and you wonder if their payback calculus has just been thrown out the window and they just don't care but i don't know that those things really sustain you see these flash in the pans and you see the cpi spike and you wonder who the heck splashed the pot and then it goes away so hopefully it keeps going away hey there's a opportunity there you know let's get these brands in games first thanks a lot for the panel that was a peak experience thanks a lot for your honesty and transparency really appreciated uh i want to drop a question because we spoke for like 40 minutes and for the past couple of years there was a lot of speaking about playable ads wasn't mentioned even once so i wonder is it a dead buzz or did it prove not to be worth it because there is so much fake playable ads that

users got really kind of tired of that so what's just your take on that point would be really interesting to know it was on my list but we only have so much time i mean it will be nice with 5g to have heavier experiences where you can get a you know something that isn't quite so lightweight that works for other genres where you can't just have a simple puzzle mechanic so i'm excited to be able to do more representative higher fidelity uh more engaging playables at some point likewise we think they're an important piece of the puzzle we see better click-through rates um for us ultimately targeting potential ad spend and ltv um we're working hard to sort of incorporate the ctr that you get from playable into our models i cannot in addition to that uh one thing about brands right didn't speak about brands today think about playable ads with brands you know you have a brand car and this car is actually going on the snow and you actually you know scratch the screen and the snow goes

down and bomb you reveal your four and four wow beautiful ad right those i think the elements that we should expect from brands in embedded with the playables yep uh and uh no they are not dead but i think it's a a big thing of cohort uh and verticals and who are using them that's basically it you know and if you if you like some some certain games some certain sources you see them definitely a lot well i think you know where i'm going to go with this i think they're right you know it's it's interrupting it's interrupting the players experience with a game they probably didn't want and now make him maybe play it or ignore it you know depending upon which side that you sit on so i think back to what you're saying i i think i do think the idea of playability within the game so let's bring that that playable experience the idea of interacting with a brand interacting with whatever trying to advertise but bring it into the game experience don't interrupt it don't take

the player out of the game experience yeah i think that was a really good point yeah uh one of the other buzz idioms we were hearing for the last six months was first party data so programmatically which is the which are the first party data that you have seen used in mobile gaming and uh who's going to audit first party data so i can pass in anything that solves its hybrids so sorry can you repeat that please yeah so yeah uh first party data was one of the other buzzwords that was used in the last six months on how you pass in parameters into your bid request that will help advertisers bid better so are there any good examples that you can quote where you have passed in let's say a gender and other things that could help in because now there is no third

party data with at least ios so this would be more useful then the follow-up question on that is who's going to audit it if the publisher themselves is sending it um so this is a area close to my heart and and and i don't know if they're in here but you guys might have seen we announced last week a partnership with number eight who are also thinking about uh how to collect how to collect like like we do how to collect data about a player in a privacy respecting manner in a manner that um that again allows you as a developer to um to create this personalized advertising experience there are mechanisms to pass this data in the bid stream back to the the demand side platforms um so those mechanisms i think are pretty nascent so like seller defined audiences would be one example of that uh it does need to uh it does need to mature and that's something we look to drive a really interesting question you asked there which uh i don't think anybody's really got an answer to right now is who's going to audit that information um and yeah that'll be the question that'll be the question we'll be talking about in a year or two's time i think

so as it gets more and more you know complicated to get data due to you know the different you know privacy restrictions what i think we also can see in the industry is the consolidation and how those publishers can take advantage of the consolidated studios into get and build much better data points around users and this is something that i think we will see more and more as a trend moving forward and not only for monetization but also for user acquisition think about you know cross promotion you know it's getting more and more expensive it's it's harder to get the right users so how can they get the data from all the consolidated studios in order to not only monetize but also acquire studios will be one of the main main points in my opinion i would just say that there's gonna be a lot of pressure on studios to to build systems that facilitate this and a lot of companies aren't going to have the technical aptitude or the organizational willpower to do it so be sure that you feel like you can do it well before you commit to trying in which case maybe look for great partners who can help you do it well because

doing this halfway is is not gonna is gonna take a lot of resources still and not have a lot of gain for you okay we're gonna have to wrap now gentlemen thank you so much um thank you [Music] [Music] you