Panel: What Influences the Influencers? PG Connects Digital #2

got a panel lined up so we're just bringing them in now um and this is got a panel with actual live influences described in a loving way I feel as prima donnas before I think that's fair we now have we have the wonderful Daniel part issues there is the answer of influence update this is gonna be chairing it and then with her we have patch achieved Pats fan of tribe gaming hello pax been a while I remember I scared as kids I still finally remember that night in their Helsinki casino nothing more can be said but otherwise it's good you're looking good you're looking down you swine I'm okay who else have we got with us there we got who else is Ridgid from

influences death thanks have you on board your influencer marketing genius that's hey if it says that I can't help so we are we are expecting warmer Pacific to others but but in there any a bit like I think we've launched in and what add them as they come that if they come so I'm gonna hand it to Danielle are you okay to launch in yeah woods thank you for your time gentlemen and off we go let's end in style today lovely thank you Chris so yeah welcome guys to the what influences the influencers panel which is a wildly broads headline I'm sure we can oh we can find some things to dig into so do you guys just want to start off by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do we'll start with that with Patrick yeah sure so my background first and foremost is as a

content creator around mobile games I actually created the first dedicated mobile gaming channel back in 2012 for clash of clans when it had just released obviously hit a gold mine there with clash of clans exploding and mobile really exploding over the last eight years so today have posted over 2,500 videos a few million followers across a bunch of different platforms and and really what I've been focusing on the last three years is tribe gaming so I found a tribe gaming as a as a mobile gaming exclusive eSports organization we compete in a bunch of different mobile games as well as we represent many of the biggest mobile gaming content creators in this space I think for scale our content creators are youtubers last month I did over 100 million views around different mobile games and we're super excited as mobile continues to grow to hopefully dominate the world how's that to start with thank you very much Richard gives you a little bit of info on your background - yeah I didn't I haven't posted many as many videos as Pat over here but you know I got my start in 2013 working for

fullscreen and then slowly realized that I myself wanted to be a content creator and jumped in with the car crew and found friends that you know slowly over time I I realized that they needed assistance you know on the brand side and just managing things in general so that they could continue pumping out the content that we all you know love and so influencers stuff came to be and I really wanted to focus on the business side of the content creation rather than the creation itself I just find it fascinating now I get to work with hundreds of creators and hundreds of different brands and each each individual campaign is different from the last so I'm super excited also awesome so you know the mobile space right now it's especially in terms of eSports is just booming at the minute it's incredible and people weren't prepared to take it seriously and now look at it it's it's just an insane space it's going to only grow it's only gonna continue to go there - as technology improves in 5g and all of

this other stuff it's a very exciting time yeah the one you know the sort of the the thing that I see is if you look five or seven years ago with traditional sports or sort of regular eSports as you know it with PC and console they were fighting for validation from traditional sports and people are like what you're getting paid this much money to play a video game and now he Sports has entered more and more into mainstream culture same thing actually has been happening with mobile you sports over the last I'd say like nine to 12 months people are like wait you know mobile games are serious they're not just you know match-three titles and whatever else and and now with you know many different games popping up all over the globe both competitive and through content I think now four of the biggest four of the ten biggest games on YouTube are mobile games many of those being tailored around the eSports you know we're sorry we're sort of fighting through those same stigmas which has been a lot of fun yeah I think when when we started Pocket Gamer well I wasn't here when when the Pocket Gamer was founded but we had that very same thing of mobile games had that stupid who would play a game on their phone but now here we are so I'm gonna start this

really basic from a creative perspective first directed mainly towards the the content creators but I guess you both dabble what made you initially want to start up a youtube channel you a go first Pat there yeah sure so I mean pretty simple answer for me I was procrastinating for an accounting exam at school and I downloaded clash of clans history from there but but yeah I mean I was the type of gamer that you know I don't I don't play a whole variety of games I find one or two games a year and I just play the absolute heck out of them and you know scrolling my phone back in 2012 in the App Store and somehow came across clash of clans as it had just been released in the strategy section you know started downloading it within 15 minutes I I texted all my friends and I said guys this game is amazing it's gonna be the next hit we should we should all play and have a clan together so started just like that and just started posting videos cuz I thought it would be fun I mean I thought at the time that YouTube was sort of just cat videos I didn't know that there was even a gaming section so it is go into this side of the passion for gaming

and it's been super fun to see where it's grown to you today mine was when I was working at fullscreen I play League of Legends for seven eight hours a night and so I was like you know I have all this content and it was a lot of fun and I really wanted to build a list of videos with my friends you know where we are fun moments and a really cool stuff was captured and from there it just kind of led to you know my channel growing from there and and getting me more reintroduced into the this space you know cuz working for fullscreen an MCN is a lot different from speaking directly to the creators as a creator and I find that that is is this is a much different situation so but yeah mainly eight hours of gameplay I decided to do something with it you know it's a lot of time really is okay awesome so I think this might just be it kind of focused on Pat as a question to put well sure you two sort of just taking your focus and keeping it entirely on

all mobile games or predominantly on mobile games yeah great question I mean first of all I've always just been such a fan of mobile even to dates I think you know I've really only played one one non mobile game seriously over the last eight years because just the accessibility of mobile always having it in my hands and you know especially with the quality of games as they continue an increase do you increase I haven't really found the need to play any other games but you know specifically for me even when it comes to my channel you know before try gaming in 2015 I had the opportunity to potentially invest in partner with a league of Legends team in the LCS and North America for eSports and I really looked into it and as I sort of continued evaluating and I said listen my brand is is as one of these you know I guess premier mobile gamers Wow put that on my gravestone premier mobile gamer here and you know my fan base as it is in mobile if I enter into PC and console people probably don't even care who I am or know anything about me my brand doesn't mean anything there it means a lot more to mobile especially these endemic mobile fans who are super excited about the future of the platform

so you know ended up passing on that opportunity and over time I've just felt that there's a power to you know building a fan base around the mobile platform as it is if for example for tribe like our tagline is the champions of mobile gaming we know there's a really passionate subset of fans who only care about mobile and want to see mobile continue to succeed and that's always just been you know super attractive for me as someone who's been around from the early days of mobile gaming content creation do you think that people find mobile gameplay as compelling to watch as PC gameplay excites not really as much of a spectacle for all the games but people still seem to enjoy it anyway yeah no definitely I mean I think especially we've seen a trend in the last three years but even before that if you think of when I started on on YouTube it was you know maybe clash of clans you had I think Angry Birds you know the biggest the biggest channel before clash of clans was Angry Birds who someone had a couple 10,000 subscribers there maybe wasn't necessarily the level of depth as there is today but now if we look at you know the east with with China and

Southeast Asia and India that means some of the biggest eSports properties in the entire world are based around mobile games and mobile games finally have that fidelity and depth to them that baby was missing you know many moons ago so super exciting I think you know the West is still a little bit behind when it comes to competitive content although casual content is as I mentioned very very popular on YouTube and otherwise but you know I think as as mobile contends to continues to blend in the MIT or blend into mainstream culture and as games like obviously wild riff release it's gonna be exciting by the way if I don't get this arm back I'm not gonna play another mobile game ever again just thinking about that my brain where how what do you do when you know if you can't keep covering the same game over and over again what do you do to kind of keep things fresh and interesting if you're cranking out like I don't know like daily content and there's not as many updates to keep things rolling and going like what what can he do to keep the content interesting for people yeah and I'm sure

rich can touch on this as well with his background but it's been it's been really interesting over the last eight years when I started posting content on YouTube I posted videos with no thumbnail no edits nothing and at that point I mean I was the you know that was maybe the biggest my channel had ever been like just all of this really basic content no production value just me speaking into a mic talking over clash of clans videos no webcam even and over the years we've seen the competition especially as YouTube you know becomes the number one thing that every millennial wants to have as a career that the competition and you know the the effort that you have to put into your content has increased a hundredfold so now you know standard gameplay videos don't cut it anymore you really need to be thinking creatively as far as what you're doing with your channel because there's thousands of people trying to you know basically post the same thing so for me you know my channel always thrived with in real life content you know playing clash of clans while skydiving you know with brawl stars

working with different influencers and celebrities on creative challenges it is it is something nowadays where it's more competitive than ever on the ideation and on the production value side and while that's been really exciting for a lot of creators that's really scary because if you're an old dog like me you got to keep up with these young guns who who are so excited absolutely I honestly I agree with that the I also I was gonna mention that I see this question here and I really like it do you think content creators nowadays still have a romantic idea of the job and I will I think that ties into what we're talking about here those creators that you know as an old dog you're trying to keep up with because they're edits and everything are the ones that have a romantic idea of the job the wife or the for the most part I feel like the people that are out there like oh well I want to do this because it's it's the main job it's it's that is something that everyone else wants to do it's it's it's cool it's hip they can make it but there's something about being in involved in what you love to do

that really creates that that romantic idea that you're talking about there and so these are the ones that are fueling the editing wars like Pat's talking about like I feel like the more time goes on some of these young bucks um the third pew is an example he was a content creator and he came up after Jack films and he loved jack and but his editing was just on point and and I think that as time goes on the next generation of content creators will continue to improve that for sure we're only going up from here and I think the same thing can be said for mobile coming from a mobile side or not me personally but from the the mobile side when it comes to brands brands are even picking up on that more and more and I think that what's important from not just mobile gamers engine but creators in general is creating that personality like Pat's talking about go skydiving go if you like the garden if you like you know somehow incorporate your hobbies into your job you know like that I don't know that's that would be

my take on it yeah you want to brand yourself as more than just a youtuber you know right more than just the game right yeah yeah because once that game dies your channel sort of goes along with it so hang able to have a brand outside of just the scope of your game is it's super important and yeah I mean I think I think since becoming like a content creator obviously you know with anything things change over time I still get excited every day you know just just recently for my channel for reference but Brawl stars continuing to skyrocket honestly supercells doing an amazing job there you know my channels seen growth that I haven't seen in three or four years and as I wake up every morning that is so exciting now obviously people started peeling under the covers of what it's like to be a youtuber and you know as far as especially a lot of the younger younger kids and teenagers elsewhere have this quick rise to fame and then maybe a meteoric downfall or you know even just lose 30% of their fan base there can be issues there but you know overall it's a dream job oh and change for anything else perfect so just to flick this on - until its head a little bit and look at it

from a marketing perspective what do influencers look for when they're thinking about working with a brand a lot of different things I found that they like creators like when you can you they their audience can engage more with it so I have a good example you know so you look at someone like a restoration Channel you know so I recently had a restoration channel and all they do is literally find old weapons and and old Zippo lighters from the world war two and all these things and they restore him I had an opportunity to work with a gaming company that wanted to work with them and all we did was find something it was a zombie game so obviously these guys found like an axe or something from the game that they could restore and then incorporate that into their their you know their add and I think that you know hell even donkey he has a phenomenal way about him of engaging his audience with that ad making it seem

like it's a part of the video but really is that ad you know so I think creativity is and the ability to have it come off as natural as something creators are looking for long term so the longevity of a contract you know if they typically charge $5,000 some sometimes they'll say all right I'll do $2,000 a month but I wanted over the course of six months because these longer partnerships are really where it's at this means it's a true partnership it isn't just like a one-off they promote this game or you know do this you know so I think they're looking for more engagement definitely yes any way that you can get um you know giving them craters freedom when it comes to like creatively giving giving youtubers creative freedom when it comes to you know the brief and approach and elsewhere I think is super important in the creator's are gonna know their their audience best and how their I think even on the pre the previous talk was a janae who said that you know giving giving the the creators freedom to know how to tap

into their audience best is definitely ideal so not having an overhanging brand that you know wants seven sets of revisions or elsewhere obviously staying true to what they've you know what you've decided on for a brief and elsewhere but you know creativity and you know really building more in depth than just like a one-off as Richard had talked about how can I if you look at examples with you know david dobrik and and what they've done with what is that sea geek as far as like really integrating it into the content and even for us I think like our base kit our best case study is working with one plus the handset manufacturer across all of our brawl stars creators you know on a long-term partnership we've been able to build one plus and brawl stars into the community where you know there's even memes about one plus on reddit due to the fact that you know all of our creators are so in depth and so in love with the product being able to to reach that point where you've truly intertwined the brand with the community is is amazing and you know you have to work you have to work hand in hand with the branch bubbling at that done perfect and to flip it on its head again what do

brands look for in an influencer sure I think yeah you go sure yeah I mean I think well first and foremost whatever you know the KPI they've set out to be so you know for game developers obviously they're looking for installs they're looking for retention and whatever else but I think also just it all depends on who you work with there's gonna be a bunch of different things some brands are gonna care less as far as maybe they're not gonna be as KPI focused but they're gonna want to really fuel a good piece of content that they're excited about and that they can use for maybe their own paid you a efforts when it comes to advertising you know we just worked with monopoly mobile on a campaign that was amazing where we had some of our biggest creators play a play a game of Monopoly against each other and dress up with with different costumes I think I was Joe exotic from Tiger King and it turned into this super fun memorable piece of content and not only were the KPI is fun and elsewhere but this piece can be cut into 15 30 60-second spots which they can use for for paid you a efforts and advertising elsewhere and it also serves as a valuable piece of content for their

audience if you're a fan of monopoly mobile and you have this hilarious piece of content which maybe you know some of these creators this is gonna be a value-add for their already existing audience which is super unique and rare so those are the types of activations that I love oh no I was out honestly I was it's gonna agree everything he just said but no I really think that brands are also looking for creators that are interested in the product now not every single time it just fits if it fits better the the engagement is higher the audience is more Intune the creator sees it as as a potential you know continued effort you know so I think that the the liking the product is important I mean if you don't drink coffee and you're promoting coffee it comes off like your audience is gonna be like I thought you said you hated coffee you know so that that could definitely happen not to say that you know they're not allowed to promote the coffee it just just works better I think and I think that's what the brands are

truly looking for him area of influence was kind of looking to work with brands that are a little bit outside of what they do for example like you guys are primarily gaming and if you worked with like a food company or some kind of shopping service or whatever would that be I guess you'd have to find a balance between it being authentic and not disingenuous but also something that you would promote yourself definitely yeah I mean I think if you look at like david dobrik with Sieg is there a one-to-one with his audience not I mean not really but they created it and they created like you know content specific around their goals and they made it something where you know his audience is passionate about it and they know when he's giving cars away and elsewhere it's by on by someone like CG I think there there is like some there's some really interesting connections when it comes to the mobile market especially as we're looking at you know whether food delivery apps and elsewhere where you can tap into that mobile focus as far as you know mobile gaming creators goes that maybe other gamers can't necessarily tap into so it's exciting there but I think no matter honestly who

the brand is just being honest with each other laying all the cards out on the table and figuring out hey how can we make this how can we tell a story to our audience that makes sense and gets our fans excited I think it hard I'd be hard-pressed so long as you don't have the right people in that in that room to find an awesome idea but some obviously are much and others yep I honestly that's that's what what I most enjoy about this industry and why I moved to this side of things is I like the ideation I like coming up with the creative ideas that can connect gamers with lifestyle I'm having a ball and sending out RFPs for like you know ubereats and all these other smaller companies like it makes sense and you have to find that specific way that you know that that not line you just that hook you basically had to find that hook and then create that idea and make it engaging for these creators and let it let them have fun with this you know let them and their audience have fun because their audience is going to support them the you know the I'm sure

Pat you've dealt with this back in the day but you know I'm sure the first few sponsors you probably put on your channel were were shunned they're like what do you do what is this like why am i watching your stuff you know that's that sense has stopped for the most part and now it's like how engaged can I get my audience how much can I make my audience love this ad and I think that that's the way that if we continue we're gonna have a lot more brands opened up and this is the Wild West you know so that this hasn't been necessarily done before you know that you had the traditional media but with influencer marketing the sky is the limit you I could I am fairly confident I could connect any brand with any creator in some form or some way and make it a successful campaign for both brand and creator it's it's it's a some good times I think especially now with I guess the pandemic and lots of companies forced to go digital it really is a good time to you know as a brand connects with anybody and everyone that you can find

and brands that wouldn't usually hop into the space or considering it just because it's literally the only way that they're gonna be able to reach new potential customers you know clients etc your portfolio I mean I'm not saying that there's going to be a quarantine every year but if you you definitely need to increase your digital sales and your digital marketing to suffice you know so if your mom-and-pop shop even III think that there are ways that you can you know work with creators and you know I'm not saying go out there and spend $20,000 if you're you know you only have one store you can find local creators and there are tons of different ways to do it you just have to think of them or find the people that I've already thought of them you know yeah we've seen on our end probably since the pandemic said you know probably half the brands have taken a step back and sort of reevaluate re-evaluated what they're doing on the marketing front the other half of brands are like heck yeah this is the time for us to go in everyone's at home everyone's gaming you know for example like our content you know our reach has gone from I think you know we haven't

brought on any new creators and it's gone from 67 million monthly views to 100 monthly million views so people are consuming more and more content especially as mobile continues to grow so now more than ever especially if you have a product that makes sense in this current environment digital is an amazing play mmm for sure I'm just leading up from that with with all of these brands leaping into the space and and trying something new that there's there's gonna be a lot of brands that necessarily haven't done this before don't know how to approach it etc um what are some of the big things that you wouldn't want a brand to do like things that would completely put you off working with with a brand based on their approach yeah I think like just put it sort of touching back on the previous point putting the creator in a box when it comes to this sending them a 45 you know sending them a three-page script as far as say these words and elsewhere you know we've had certain people especially new to influencer marketing who are extremely you know they want everything done exactly by the book I want you to read this script I want to say say you to say this you know sometimes you can even come from a translated you know Google Translate as far as what you're saying and it comes

off so inauthentic the creator's obviously not gonna be passionate about it their audience is gonna see through it because they are our audience is more than ever are really smart when it comes to sahaja content and elsewhere and they can pick it out in a second maybe in 2012 or 2013 you know you could have gotten away with it but now you know your audience can clearly see through that so you know number one thing for me is probably not being given like you know creative freedom when it comes to working with the brand around their goals and their visions you know if you want to drive users around a particular update for your game or you want to key in on these specific assets that are that are like you know key calling cards for your game I'm totally down I'm totally about that but let's have a collaborative process you know based on my audience which is gonna be different than you know the other other hundred influencers that you're working with it's gonna have to be different every time so that's probably you know number one to me I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with that that's my number one as well not putting people in a box not having you there's a difference between talking points and deliverables talking points are hey we want you to have creative freedom

please pick like three to five of these and put them in there somewhere you know like we understand this is the general idea of what we want you to say and deliverables are like seven to ten you have to say this and then go ahead and throw in whatever you also think might fit and that doesn't work the audience is there to watch the creator so we need to have the creator have that ability to add the talking points that they know will fit in best with their audience so completely agree just creative control and I'm not saying that the creators every single time should have create a complete creative control like Pat said it's a back and forth through it's not necessarily in the negotiation but that's what it is it's figuring out what works for both sides and that is really important that both sides flourish here because that's how the industry has pushed ahead is pushed forward mmm absolutely so a lot of influencers they kind of adjust the rates based on the kind of company that they're working for so if thinking about gaming influencers if they're working with a big company like riot or blizzard they will kind of you

know present rates that will reflect what the company can pay them but they will decrease them dramatically if they're working for an indie company or sometimes they'll just work for free for an indie company if they like the the product on the game that they're pitching what would a company need to offer an influencer to kind of make that worth doing I suppose definitely yeah I mean it's gonna it's definitely a very as you said depending on who the company is I don't I don't necessarily know if it's like you know the creators out of the goodwill of their heart are gonna give you know discounts to any games versus the big mega Lords of developers of the world they're gonna be you know hoping to hit the checkbook hard I think it's gonna be different sometimes even just creators especially for new and exciting games even if they're by Triple A developers they're gonna want to post around that title anyways and potentially build an audience around that game where you know I've been posting videos around supersoul games for years and years and years and they're not paying me to post around their games it's just that I love their games

I'm able to build an audience that's sustainable on the platform so I think it's gonna be a different approach for each creator you know some things it's gonna depend on how much does it crater actually you know like this game what chance of sustainability is there for a game like this is this something where hey am i posting you know let's say a match-three game that's never gonna be successful on YouTube or am i posting let's say you know Call of Duty mobile 4 and launched where hey this is an opportunity where I could potentially build my brand around this game that's gonna change the economics drastically especially if someone like a ten-cent is gonna agree to help promote me in-game and all those other sort of in-kind offerings that they can they can sort of have so in general it's gonna vary especially with influencer and creator sizes as well lower you know potentially lower to your creators and smaller creators are gonna be more interested and you know sort of in-game currency offerings promotion offerings to where you know maybe the economics actually end up being pretty pretty nil when it comes to actual cost whereas for the larger creators you're gonna run into more flat fees and CPI is depending on

which title you're hopping into I have a I have a tiered tiered approach with this is and I asked all my creators this pure one being that is the company that you would just die to work with you you'd pay them to work with them you know so I asked what the rate would be for that obviously they don't necessarily pay the brand tier two is something that you you see the value in so like a Monster Energy or something like that that you personally do not drink but you could like the same thing with the coffee but you see that your audience loves monster what in what would be your rate for that and then the tier 3 would be something like a fly-by-night mobile game or something like that you know like these are the guys that are coming in there they're gonna give you you know a large sum and you'll never hear from them again and that usually that's pretty pretty high up there usually it looks like you know if they were charging twenty five hundred for their favorite brand you'd look at you'd be looking at like five to ten for a brand that they see the value in and then Tier three would probably be fifteen thousand you know and that also

comes from a lot of those guys are usually wanting dedicated to you know which by the way we need to focus like dedicated they work they do work here and there but asking a creator to do a dedicated video on a game that they've never done some that's where that creative control comes in there sometimes you should you should you know if they come back they're like hey I only do integrations typically listen to them on that you know like it doesn't have to be dedicated every time so yeah definitely cool that was some cool insight because I think influencer marketing can quite often come with a hefty price tag and there are companies out there who wanna dive into it but might not necessarily have the budget so if there's weights - it's a navigate around that that I'm insulting to an influencer and the work then yeah I think it's definitely something that you should consider that's my portion wraps up but I do have some audience questions to quickly run so you guys are cool with that so we've got from an anonymous guy all the

tutorials about how to be a success as successful as an influencer talk about consistency and quality in content but with the competition being so fierce and now that you're imagine managing other professionals would you say that quality and consistency are enough um no I wouldn't say that that's enough I think that back in the day having being consistent and having quality at least in the mobile gaming landscape could have done pretty well for you in the pre 2017 world depending on the game so you're being a part of but now that competition is so high in fears the number one thing you need to have is you need to have a niche for your content so yeah you know for me right now I can post just more or less gameplays of me doing different mobile games and can have a substantial amount of viewership but for anyone else if you're posting at zero subscribers or 500 subscribers you know people are probably gonna watch one of the bigger creators versus your content if you're doing the same exact thing the number one thing you need to do is find a niche for why people should care and it should be different so if I'm a mobile crater right now I'm gonna take a look at the mobile landscape for a game like brawl stars for example what type of content is being created right now and what's the missing point if I

look at it and I see that hey right now no one's doing IRL style brawl stars content or no one's doing collaboration type or all-stars content I'm gonna work with you know I'm gonna put together a 64 person brawl stars tournament that's gonna be casted and you know held you know somewhere else again some some like silly ideas like that but finally unique different differentiator for you that makes you different than others is necessary to get that explosive growth and then once you hit a certain point with your channel you can post more of that maintaining style consistent content and retain that audience but to have growth you have to be unique yeah unique and a specific niche or or topic you know you could you could have the same gameplay as all of the other mobile creators but if you have a topic it comes off as a podcast or you know sir yeah just different ideas on how to do it and I would also say to not necessarily focus I unless you are you know solely focused on YouTube and and trying to make that income from that and

you're living off the income great but until then treat it as a hobby like because you you'll get burnt out a lot quicker if you're focused on money like money brings us all out like huh am I gonna make my bills so on top of that you know now you have to create gameplay and content to provide a living for yourself like I would just focus on the quality upload as far as consistency I have people that I have creators that are uploading once a month that are still very very relevant in every single video they do gets you know half a million views but if they were to upload every day or every week those views might go down so they're working on the upload schedule that works for them so don't work on an upload schedule that works for other people like do you and you'll find the people that are also like if you upload I know this is a bad example but I run that mad example but if you upload or use you are a night person and you're up from you wake up at 8 p.m. and go to bed at 5 a.m. and you're like I gotta wait to upload at the right times no focus on your community building at that time there

are tons of streamers that stream to thousands and thousands of people every night because and and once you I've tried to tell them ok you probably should you know maybe you could skip to you know instead of starting at 8:00 p.m. start at 5:00 p.m. you know trying these different things like nah I'm good and I find that their honesty is really the transparency is great because they know what they're doing they're building their community you know like who are we to necessarily say that's not the right time like it's working for them you know some yeah absolutely but there is a big stigma on that kind of thing but you know work at the time that suits you it's fine so we've got here what is the best way to approach a youtuber do you profess go via management / agencies you do have to go a lot of times through some management and agent of management companies and agencies to reach certain creators email them hit them up on Twitter here and then if you're a brand the the management would probably be the

best bet as far as you know nestled up a large amount of creators depending on how quickly you need to go but if you're really looking for a curated list develop that list and then reach out to them and most likely they'll send you to the person that they want you to talk to they'll be like oh this is my manager chat with them so yeah reach out yeah that makes a lot of sense it's burnout still an issue for influencers taking time off scenes impossibly hard to do if your livelihood depends on regular consistent activity how do you cope with that yeah I think we're now it's definitely definitely an issue it's something that's more talked about now I think than potentially like four or five years ago and as Richard alluded to you know I think back a couple years ago YouTube really rewarded you based on those daily uploads and activity whereas nowadays you know you can actually have it you know once a week or once a month cadence and find something that works for your channel so it's something that people are talking a lot more about now youtubers are more prone to taking you know breaks and I think it's become less of that race than

it was sort of in the past but yeah definitely something to keep mind up you know for me I've burned out before especially playing you know I played games like clash of clans and class routes and posting videos for three straight years in my channel that's almost a thousand videos so inevitably there's gonna be a point where maybe it's not as exciting as it has been or there hasn't been an update for the game in the while we're seeing this actually with a lot of fortnight creators now especially as your excitement for the game goes down and your viewership is going down from the big peak early on in the game there can be that time so you know for creators being cognizant of that and focusing on that is is really really important agreed yeah you know I when I first started streaming i was streaming for 12 to 18 hours a day League of Legends I have played two games of League of Legends in the past year and a half like I was doing that for three years you know like it's a lot of work and really the burnout comes from for me personally from the specific game like if I if if I diversified and I did variety at least even initially I probably would still be playing league of legends but because I put in you know 400 500 hours

within a six month period yeah you do quickly get burned out I would say don't be afraid of burnout just acknowledge that you know like that's um you need a mental break like we're human beings you know it just be true with yourself and don't just keep going because others are going again it's it yeah we have this a lot of youtubers tend to relate to other youtubers and that that is good but also you need to have a focus on yourself focus on what you can do and what you can do well and don't be discouraged if you ever have to take a break like that awesome so I'm gonna wrap that one up there I think we've run over a little bit but thank you guys so much for coming on and sharing your experiences and enjoy the rest of your PDC and your

great job really appreciate that um awesome