How to Get Bang for Your Buck with Influencers featuring Chief Pat

another video number 2600 yeah you you're the og of videos but all right let me let me do the intro you threw me off because because i'm like i'm now i'm like a guest in my own show anyway so welcome everybody to the deconstructor fun podcast my guest today is patrick carney aka chief pat now most of you know chief pat because most of our audiences is like very much into into mobile gaming and mobile games business but a little bit more he's not just your average influencer he's a founder and ceo of tribe gaming an esports and influencer company for mobile games pat himself has 2.5 million subscribers over million views on youtube lifetime like man that's a lot of views uh what an interesting about you're gassing me up no no no no let me let me talk about tribe like you think you got everything with just pat's number let's go tribe so

you know over 20 creators you got six five six esports teams 32 million collective followers over 100 million monthly views on youtube uh partnering with the likes of ford shout out to ford i also have a ford we're just talking about your mac e i don't have a mackey i have the uh the um the escort what you have in the us or cuga here anyways uh enough about my car uh investors like san antonio spurs um you know christian sega stroller founder of glue founder of playfish founder of superevil megacorp um he's an investor hearing company like i could just go on and on in the list but you you have a you have a bit of a bit of a like a media empire are you a media mogul pad i need you to do the intros to my youtube videos this is great i love this um you know yeah i just uh i'm just some idiot who decided to download clash of clans one day back in 2012 so yeah we're just taking life where it goes but having a lot of fun

i saw you first time in 2013 at supercell's office in san francisco it wasn't like even it was supercell's like um co-working space yes and you were you were in the corner you had like your tower computer i was like who's this guy and they're like oh he's like uh he's like a youtube guy they're like does he work for the company was like nope but he's just he just likes to play playing clash of clans he's like all right what's up dude it was uh that was my first trip ever actually like visiting san francisco i remember i had two queen beds in my hotel room and i thought i was the biggest baller of all time i was like not one two beds the westin i mean this is awesome yes so that's that's where i where i saw you you look no different than then a little bit less hair but yeah yeah well well you know with uh with the media mogul like yourself hair is you know it's just a question you can you can always buy more hair uh i was just in istanbul

let me tell you hair is not an issue i'm tempted i might have to take like a six month sabbatical from content where my audience wonders where i'm going or why i'm wearing a beanie in every episode but why just i think i think it's a piece of content first of all it's a nice journey a story like you're not you're not as confident as you could be there's the hair thing it's like you just need to do it for yourself you kind of be you can be real with your with your audience of 2.5 million subscribers like a half of finland is following there we go i get it sponsored i'll get a i'll get a hair plug doctor in turkey to sponsor it we'll make it a whole content series i'm down yeah might go in together you could do that also it's not that expensive just to be clear so uh but but yeah i mean uh i'll do it with you you know what i'll do it with you my channel has like 650 subscribers so i think we've bundled up that together we're kind of even love it love it less about looks and more about the

voice anyways uh okay so um let's talk suck your business because because this is all about business i want to hear how you got started almost 10 years ago like what led you to this journey of becoming an influencer media mogul okay um yeah i mean so for me it all started in 2012. so i actually just transferred into my dream school at the time i was at university of virginia i thought i had life figured out studying finance etc etc and of course as i studied for an accounting exam i uh like everyone else who studied accounting like really didn't want to do it so i looked in the app store by chance and was like what games have released recently that are interesting that i can use to distract my mind from managerial accounting and this new game popped up in the app store called clash of clans like i looked in the strategy section i saw this game i was i saw some barbarian yelling at me i said okay i'm gonna download this and see what this game is all about literally within 15 minutes of playing the game i was like okay this game actually is so good i texted all my friends i was like everyone join in let's all play together

and after playing for a couple of days i went online to like look up guys i mean i i only use youtube for like cat videos which by the way you guys are on youtube we've got a you know what's a chief pat without a chief cat she's hanging out next to me wow that on camera right here but uh but yeah youtube at the time for me was literally just uh you know cat videos and memes and when i tried to look up guides and clash of clans i didn't see anything so i thought okay um i've never made a video before i have no idea what i'm doing i actually had to go to the my laundry room in my dorm to film because that was the only place with strong enough wi-fi but i started filming videos and and i would actually do the voice overs in my car so it was uh it was a struggle in the video for sure but i just started posting and you know i remember going from like i had hit 10 subscribers and i was like asking all my friends i was asking my mom i was like please stop buying accounts i hit like 100 subscribers a thousand subscribers and soon enough um you know i i ended up by the time i

finished up my sophomore year school i hit 100 000 subscribers and was like actually you know making money i remember the beginning like i had no aspirations of being a youtuber i started making ten dollars a day and i sat down with my mom i was like mom i'm gonna be you know i'm gonna get my big boy job after college i'm making ten dollars a day i'm getting chipotle every day for free from this channel like i measured my life in chipotle meals at the time and and uh you know obviously it grew to so much more than that so you know my channel had grown and i was heading into my junior year of school and i moved in all my stuff you know i was really struggling trying to balance youtube which was way more exciting and you know managerial accounting and i literally moved in and i remember two days after moving in i don't even know can we swear on your podcast i don't know but i moved in moved in i i remember looking like in the mirror in my crappy apartment i was like what the [ __ ] am i doing i can play video games for a living and why am i doing this i moved all my stuff out after moving in i broke my lease i

went back and i went in full time and uh and yeah you know definitely parents super supportive like my mom is um you know she had a jewelry business my dad has like always been super gung-ho about this stuff but yeah i dove fully in and that was uh how it all got started your parents were okay with you so you stopped school you you or did you finish your education no no i am your uh i'm i'm your friendly dropout who who dropped out to play video games yeah i did two years um i left but they were super supportive like at the time i built my channel up to a point to where you know i started making serious money and there was opportunities such as traveling to you know the event we went to in san francisco or um you know going to helsinki which probably at the time i thought was in southeast asia i had no clue there was all these opportunities coming up and uh i hope you didn't pack for southeast asia when you came no absolutely not um that was uh yeah that was march the first time i visited but oh you know i found myself in all my classes literally just refreshing my

youtube page and thinking of ideas and i was like there's no way i can give 60 to both of these so i went full in on youtube and uh definitely an excellent choice so so you learned like video editing everything yourself and you learned that off the youtube right oh totally yeah i mean i even at the time guides back then were pretty no one had i mean so when i started making content around mobile games no one was really making content around mobile games even like to that point clash of clans was this game that had this like natural youtube value where people wanted to watch this online and to date you know i think maybe the biggest channel had been posting 10 second angry birds guides that didn't even have a voiceover so this was that first core strategy game that broke through on youtube so when it came to recording this like i remember i was using a lot of people were using a phone to record another phone i found some software maybe called like air parrot i forgot what it was i probably didn't have this from and i don't know but um but i found that and i somehow rigged it in our laundry room and i would film it like midnight in in my dorm and um i got it to work and just sort of figured it out and if you look at my

first videos i'm literally like breathing into the microphone like i drop one troop to be super efficient then it's just like me i'm not gonna breathe in the microphone on your podcast but it's like it's bad it was definitely a work in progress but uh you know it went from something that my uh you know friends definitely made fun of me before because you know they're like wait what the heck you're posting mobile games on youtube too we're like this is super cool you know pat has like 50 subscribers this is awesome so it was a fun journey and um and so so five years ago so that was 10 years ago and then you're five years in your chief pat everybody knows you you have a you have a great relationship with supercell did you have also relationships with other uh game publishers like how does that work yeah yeah absolutely so like the five years so first five years on youtube was able to grow my channel um really saw mobile even though i mean still at the time it was pretty behind the scenes which is hard to believe because the viewership was honestly there on youtube from the junk but it's still pretty you know behind the scenes so fast forward to 2017 for

me you know i as one of like i guess you can call it the ogs of like mobile gaming content creation i had a chance to see all of the other content creators and build their channels oh well you say that on me right the right time um so i saw all these other channels start to grow and like for them the creators reach out to me for advice um even my co-founder of tribe john the first time we talked was he was uh he was translating one of my videos to german at the time so you know i'd build all these amazing relationships with creators help them monetize their channels build their brands i had worked with tons of different game developers at that point um whether with supercell tencent um many others uh who you know you guys all know in the mobile gaming space and for me you know as as all this started happening and for me naturally like one i was a huge fan of doing collaborative content i found myself more and more doing videos that involved other creators and second i started getting involved in esports and enjoying esports i actually went to my first esports event when i was visiting supercell in

2015. um they were actually showing me clash royale for the very first time and we went to berlin to see the league of legends world championships um and it was this moment where it clicked for me where hey like i want to combine all of this stuff together like where i am in mobile gaming my relationships you know my passion for content working with others and esports and and do it within um you know i want to do something with this and even like at that point actually i talked to um you know i talked to a team from from the lcs in league of legends their official league about buying a spot before realizing that like no one cared who i was in league of legends i was just some clash of clans guys so i ended up waiting a little bit and eventually in 2017 when um super mega corp started their um their esports league they had reached out to me about the opportunity and it like all made sense that this was the right time to to let it rip um so i i sort of didn't know what i didn't know back then like i was just you know you know just a kid like saying hey let's let's do this this seems really cool and and definitely it's been a fun

transition for me going from like a one-person team with my youtube channel to where now you know working with tribe and um all the amazing creators staff and players we work with it's been a it's been quite a journey so um okay i have so many questions by the way i remember i've been to multiple super evil mega corps vainglory esports events uh my wife used to used to run those and and she says anyways uh so so that i'm quite familiar with esports but i wanted to kind of go back to your your life as an influencer how did it kind of like how did it evolve going from the college days as you're you know recording in your laundry room to like you're scaling it like you're chief pat like what would your day look like and how how does the team size grow like because anyway i listened to the podcast with um mr beast on joe rogan and he's like 120 people different languages like that's at the ultimate scale like what was your scale up as as you were chief padding and then you know growing as a

media yeah great question so like when i started back in 2012 it was unheard of that people had like actual teams around their youtube channel i remember when i started i didn't even do thumbnails in my video it was you know hey i'm just your normal joe you know one stock on at a time let's play some clash of clans have some fun and people happen to enjoy my content so it graduated from that to where now today um you know if you're a creator and you're not building a team around you you're gonna be behind the eight ball so you know for myself i have a team of somewhere between like three and five some of the resources i share um within tribe because we have a team that works with our talent but you know whether it is video editors uh graphic designers thumbnail designers um even like ideation people to help us create content for our channel every creator now is starting to build out their team and then outside of people like just part of your full-time team you know being able to find other people who can sort of fill in the gaps for your business is super important so whether it's someone who can help you monetize your channel via brand deals you don't want to be the one you know reading legal agreements and licensing

clauses and all that you want to find someone who can help there maybe it's for um uh you know a pr there's there's all these different areas where you want to find people to to plug into your channel and really the number one thing that's irreplaceable when it comes to being a creator is in in my mind video ideation like everything else we found success outsourcing whether editing you know graphic design whatever else but the number one thing that's the the toughest thing to replicate even for me like as i've done this or even with tribe creators as we help them is you know the best creators are the ones with the best ideas it's as simple as that finding someone who just so naturally understands your audience and knows how to make viral content and really um can retain an audience and that watch time you know and is obsessed with that to the level of mr beast if you've heard him talk about that those those are the people that um you know end up winning and that's really why you see a lot of people sometimes people will start as content ideators for other youtubers and their ideas are so good they start their own channel and then they blow up someone like um you know was seen for example in brawl stars he started as a you know editor for for one of uh you

know one of our creators lex's channel and now you know he started his own channel and he's arguably the hottest creator in in all of um you know mobile right now so um so yeah but it definitely it definitely varies and i definitely have an interesting experience being a creator plus you know founder and ceo of tribe but um for a lot of creators the day in the life you know uh it can it can get uh yeah it definitely is case by case how do you how do you so when you're scaling up and like you used to be a business major so let's approach it from that perspective right you have your own business major but yeah well you know it's it's still still you understand you understand the financial part so sure um because most of the creators actually i don't know if it's nowadays but but i assume the creators don't have a capital to start with so essentially you start from the bottom and you have to do everything yourself and you're slowly outsourcing certain things like okay video editing that takes a lot of time there's a contractor i can give this there's there's this there's that and and um

when like do you plug in these people as your channel grows and you're making more revenue or you do you just do like a early investment with the assumption that your channel will grow and you do that you know initial investment you're kind of on the red and you slowly start getting on the green like i'm interested in the business case of these yeah i'd say most typically i would never advise someone to like invest way too much up front to their channel thinking that you know that they're going to be a creator i mean if you look at it right now i know there was a recent survey maybe sometime last year they surveyed um uh you know they did a survey both in china and the united states and asked kids like what do they want to be when they grow up and in china the number one response was an astronaut and in the u.s the number one response was a youtuber so hey guys you know yeah we're doing something right over here you know uh anyway so it's competitive or not yeah it's competitive to say the least so definitely wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket more traditionally what you'll see is as people find success and they're finally earning through their channel um you know in my eyes

reinvesting that success if you're able to financially maybe if you have a full-time job and youtube is something that you're doing or content something you're doing on the side being able to reinvest those earnings into your team as soon as possible i've never regretted um you know expanding my team uh too soon it's always too late when it comes to that and every creator i talk to is the same way so if it's feasible as you grow and as you start making revenue to reinvest it i definitely recommend that the other you know there are some other ways you can do it for example you know there's starting to be some funds where people are actually investing in creators in return for like basically equity in their businesses and long-term earning potentials so if you're able to prove that you have um you know you have potential as a creator there's certainly people that are willing to give out money in that case and and then even for us at tribe like one thing we do is we almost act as a talent incubator for some of our creators so um take for example uh a b-rad and nat so b-rad was one of our clash royale professional players who didn't have a youtube channel when he started and joined tribe gaming and you know we as he was winding up his competitive career was like hey we're

gonna give you some resources we're gonna give you some promotion obviously like this is 95 going to come from you but we want to try to boost you up with our audience with our mobile fan base and give you that jump start when it comes to creating your channel now brad is doing millions and millions of million he's got a bigger channel than me now you know what the heck so uh you know he's absolutely crushing it and same with same with nat where actually for nat you know she was a really prolific streamer she had an amazing presence on other social media channels but we actually provided her a team as far as like an editor and a designer went and even helped her from the start with concepting ideas and you know for that first month or two um you know started learning and being able to do more with her channel to where now she's been able to take that over and steer it and she's now you know one of if not the biggest cr female creators in all of mobile and is doing an amazing job so there's a lot of paths to get there but a lot of for most every creator it's going to come down to um you know investing in your team as soon as it's financially feasible but i definitely don't recommend you know taking a gap year from college dropping 10 grand on a twitch setup and thinking

that you're gonna you're gonna hit it big that's uh that's it yeah that's that's interesting and um about your day so so we're gonna go into tribe games after after this one but i'm just curious like or just overall as an influencer like how much pressure does an influencer have to keep on producing content because it's a treadmill that never ends uh with the algorithms with the way with the way you have to do it's like as soon as you release a video you're probably thinking about the next one and and how many videos do you release a week like what's the what's the amount two three yeah i mean for for me i varied in the past from like two to seven videos per week i would say and you know it varies per creator i don't even know if quantity like you've even solving for quantity that that stress is still there and honestly i mean like you're a founder i mean multi i mean you have like i don't know how many 20 companies no i mean you're doing a lot and like for me even going from being a creator to being a founder that same thing still exists where you're always on you're always thinking about something when you're a youtuber you post your video you're instantly thinking about what's your next idea

what should i be doing with my channel it's almost always like hanging over your head in a sense and i think that's why a lot of creators and i'm sure founders burn out because it's hard to like turn off that voice where you're always thinking about your business refreshing your page um you know thinking about what's next and that's on the youtube side of things and then on the twitch side of things for example with streamers you know there's a saying that for some of these streamers if you're streaming for you know uh six hours a day you're um you know if you're streaming six hour days you're losing followers if you're streaming eight hours a day you're maintaining if you're streaming 10 hours a day you're growing bad for me i can't fathom that like being on camera that long every day that's why i'm uh that's why i'm a youtuber and um you know i have a major respect for some of these twitch grinders where maybe you know the the post-production um and some of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes is seriously reduced but being on camera for that long you know not everyone has a great day and people are you know gritting through it when it comes to chatting with their audience even on youtube but trying to do that for 10 hours you know when someone hit your car in the morning or something else um

yeah i have to i have to salute those people because it goes from you know playing games is really fun to this is a job potentially really quick if that's the case well to talk to me about a little bit about like uh the twitch and what was the other microsoft thing was it mixer or what was it called like oh yeah then facebook jumped on it so the so the platforms have been involving but you've kind of you have you always been just on youtube like youtube ride or die uh you got the uh the golden like what's the platinum youtube letter on the back and like yeah you're not looking on other platforms you're just youtube or or were there moments where you're like ninja is going to mix her and they're paying him like insane amount of money he's like what's up or like like what yeah you know this the strategy varies drastically so depending on like what platform you're playing it's different on mobile it's different on pc it's different on console it's different on the games you play so there's not a one size fits all but i would say like for for myself and even for tribe like as we work with english-speaking um creators mobile by

far and away is dominated when it comes to youtube um you know youtube by far and away makes up for i would say at probably 90 to 95 of the watch time for mobile games in like english-speaking markets that's where you know most everyone has become accustomed to watching content even watching streams youtube tends to be much more popular than twitch and other platforms so if you're looking to be a mobile gaming creator youtube is the platform to be and even more broadly you know twitch gets a lot of the headlines as far as streaming goes and their potential market share but when it comes to watch time between platforms i mean youtube just laughs everyone a million times when it comes to their audience and obviously you want to go where the biggest as a creator you want to go to a platform where you can achieve that biggest um you know the biggest audience possible and and that's been youtube so certainly other platforms have come in mixer even in mobile like camcord and mob crush and some of these other videos we're looking at mobile specific platforms yeah like they've come they've come and gone but um the reality is that for creators number one you want to reach the widest audience possible and number two trying to port your audience

to another platform is just so risky unless you know that that platform can be around forever and that it provides value to you um investing your time into something like that versus just reinvesting in your time into what already works through youtube and elsewhere um just personally i haven't seen another platform at least for for english-speaking mobile creators be able to you know be something that's sustainable without offering creators like you know massive deals such as a ninja to stay on the platform but it does vary with with other regions you know with brazil and and um and china like it definitely varies and even even streaming is more popular in those regions versus in you know english-speaking markets but um yeah no i definitely prefer more youtube i couldn't get ever get into twitch it's just like it's it's not like i like instagram because somebody takes 1500 photos and then post the best one the same way i want my videos like i don't need to see your eight hour stream i need 30 minutes of super edited you know the best best shots ever keep the dopamine coming baby yeah exactly

exactly make it perfect and please suggest the next one as well and by the way you mentioned camcorder and uh mob crush i remember when they launched and i i was like this is born dead because because of like the one simple thing is like when you're streaming and you're having your phone like the phone will be filming your your your chin like who wants to watch your chin while you're playing like they never solved against that they were like no it's it's accessibility it's like i don't want to see your chin dude like or you know that's it that's it so uh both of them yeah even google like when google was was rolling out their recording feature on mobile you know i and when we were doing feedbacking with them it was like listen this this is a great tool for someone who's getting into creation maybe someone who writes the first time they've ever made a video this would be a great place to do this but once you get like to a certain scale which is pretty soon you know you're going to want a dedicated setup to be able to produce content from and then you know it's like well you can attach like bluetooth headphones or a bluetooth microphone i'm like this is just way more convoluted than just having a good old-fashioned computer so yeah

i do like the youtube stories like the quick ones they're nice for sure for certain content but uh but yes um all right let's move on to tribe gaming so you're five years in you started off as a college dropout now you've grown your your your uh your platform your chief pat you got all these partnerships you're flying you're you're staying you have a hotel rooms with two [ __ ] beds you can just switch between in the middle of the night you're going to southeast asia helsinki uh and um so so what led you and then and then you're starting uh you're starting tribe because you're a fan of esports you went to league of legends uh championship you're like [ __ ] dope like a filled arena the sounds the people like it's it's legit and then comes along um a mobile moba with esports events that says we want to do big things you're starting tribe uh as a as a first

esports team for mobile games am i correct and let's start with this point 100 yes so so that was the vision like seeing all this awesome opportunity in mobile knowing all these creators knowing all these developers smc launching their esports program with vainglory it all just made sense so you know i would say like the evolution over the last five years has been insane but one of the biggest things i mean first is breaking down like really easily what we do from like a front racing perspective three major areas of our business one is gonna be just like our media um in general i guess maybe even better to start with the creators like with our content creators we have 21 creators who collectively average over 100 million views a month around mobile games so with these creators you know they represent tribe they appear on our channels um we're able to you know work with these creators to produce custom content and even for us as a gaming collective actually this year in january we were the most viewed gaming organization on youtube as far as monthly viewership period in english-speaking markets so bigger than pc and console related organizations the scale of mobile is massive and we know

that collectively especially with mobile sometimes being more under the radar by pooling together our creators and creating this you know this this collective um where you know it turns into something pretty pretty amazing um so that's one side of the business with creators uh second is gonna be being a media brand so if you look at the tribe content on our own and operated channels we're able to reach 100 hundreds of thousands of views per video and be able to leverage that to not only partner with developers which i'm sure we'll talk more about but also partner with with brands like uh ford and the lovely tribe mobile which you guys can see on my twitter if you want to check it out can i add the link link to the uh okay there's a link in the description uh to to the other tribe mobile i mean as i i told pat like this would have been dope if i was 15. you got to know your target you got to know your target audience you got a different audience anyways hopefully no one calls me all day is it obvious that it's a trap car

um anyways and then third is our esports teams so we have six teams um last year had an awesome year actually our call of duty mobile team won a world championship and this is like a lot of what we do on the front-facing side of things and i think especially in like 2017 2018 we were really focused on building the tri brand building tribe as a consumer media brand um and bringing together all these amazing things i'd say like what's recently changed especially over the last two years is a lot of what we do on the back end we don't really like advertise this as much because like we are a gaming organization and this media brand but a lot of what we do um are these publisher partnerships where we work with tencent supercell activision whoever else around all these different elements of their game on the on the back end of things i mean it could be influencer marketing creator programs white label content production esports you know when people are going to launch mobile games and they want to reach like the online mobile gaming content community because we have you know because we're the leaders and we have a majority of the top creators and we have like tribe as this leading consumer media brand um a lot of

developers look to us to launch their games as well as help retain their player base and retain their creators given like our background and our experience i guess the easiest way to look at it is if you think about apex legends when it launched at the time i think it was the most successful game launch ever they did like i think in 30 days like maybe 50 million players um ended up being a smashing success like when it came out and the only marketing they did off the jump for that game in the first 48 hours was they paid a bunch of twitch streamers a fat bag of cash and they said stream our game and play it that was it and the game blew up and at the time was the biggest launch of its time as far as like player bases went well when you look at the mobile gaming landscape when they did that activation they went to a bunch of random twitch streamers but like for us what's super unique is that we work with the vast majority of the largest mobile gaming creators and we can actually pull that off not only you know with those creators but create a broader narrative and story with tribe to where um you know we can we can basically in-house something like that with apex legends

mobile and go far above that when it comes to like creative and to make you know make your game splash um in the biggest and best way possible so that that's a lot more of what we've been doing and really like where we're trying to higher up as much as possible is that there's a ton of demand for us to be able to work with um you know some of these devs and publishers with their games but yeah i'm trying to retain as much hair as i can possible so i gotta i gotta hide it or just go to turkey uh but um but yeah so um actually talking about those launch strategies supercell has been amazing with those like when they really kick it off with with influencers i think um you know on my youtube channel that was how they launched the game was the video on my channel boom boom exactly and then then bunch of influencers so your youtube feed is filled up and most importantly it's just not ads it's like you're seeing players play it and they the influencers are given a preview and and you get that that uh that first wave of early adopters and they're gonna get in and they get the early adopters are watching your the videos of influencers so it's

an amazing strategy and um yeah i definitely get it um i got a bunch of questions that came up for someone okay i'm gonna ask the stupidest one okay off the bat that i've been dying to ask why is a tribe logo has two access it's kind of like very aggressive what should we do should we do some rubber duckies no no i'm i'm like i i i'm not going to tell you what to do but it's very aggressive just just saying okay uh because okay you're not an aggressive guy like i wouldn't say i wouldn't call myself a creative so i'll run the feedback to our creative team i'm just thinking about like you're you're very like you're mainstream nowadays like you are a mainstream your biggest influencer platform you got a bunch of you know all different kinds of streamers from from the quintessential white guy aka chief pat to to literally every look and feel like you cover all the demos so anyways i was just okay i'm not i'm not

dogging on your brand it's not like i have a great brand either like i paid 200 bucks to uh to a guy in pakistan to design it so don't ask me but and there's nothing wrong with with a guy in pakistan he did an excellent job i agree i'm not the most creative anyways that's great um the what's the business model uh when you're doing this consultation with these game companies like like how do you work with the activisions or the eas of the world as they are bringing you know let's say you know the call of duty's or the apex legends or the clash royales or the bra stars of the world um how long are the projects do you get paid for for that early part how do you build your team around it like like how can you walk me through those type of because that's that's really the the meat of this discussion for most of the listeners yeah totally so the answer is number one that it varies drastically depending on the game the type of game does this game have quote unquote youtube value um is this maybe a more casual game that wouldn't be spectated on youtube it all depends on

what what the publisher and developer like really needs um some examples of like what we do super common is like basically like play testing and r d with our talent so obviously when you know for for a lot of developers when they're making their games they want them to be creator friendly and have like features that entice creators to stick around and to create content around them and you know super uniquely for us we happen to have a lot of the top mobile creators so being able to set up play sessions um with different games have our creators play them for a few hours hop on with the developers tell them what they like what they didn't like what they would add in to make the game more creator friendly etc etc is usually like one of the starting points if you're if if we're starting to work with people early on and and definitely like the earlier the better especially i mean we can talk more about like influencer marketing campaigns but getting a creator bought in early on and being able to bring them into the project and make them feel like they're a part of it is something that i've always enjoyed as well i know other creators have as well but that's definitely the first one of the first ways we tend to work with people if we're at the very beginning of a project then when it comes to like launch strategies so you know launching your game with a bang whether it's influencer

marketing promotion whether it's even like um you know white label events will produce white label content that certain developers and publishers actually posted their channels as their own content they might not have a production team or a team that can pull off some sort of event involving 20 creators but for us we have an in-house team that can produce that around their brand and their vision and bring that to life for for them to post so um you know i think one thing that we sort of talked a little bit about as well when it comes to like not only influencer marketing and doing your standard dedicated videos or integrated videos obviously that's important and there's value there but what we really like to do is come up with more creative custom campaigns that go past like a hashtag ad so if you think of for example we did a campaign with um there's actually timely since you were talking about our logo with with knight's edge so knight's edge from lightfox games we did a campaign where all of a sudden on our social media for 24 hours the axes and our logo went missing it was just a shield and everyone was like what the heck where are the tribe axes what's going on we did a fun skit leading up to it and the next day we revealed that the axes were actually in game with one of the final

bosses of the earliest levels and if you took down the boss you would actually end up winning like custom tribe armor and you would save our axes and we created a set of custom maps within the game by our creators that had their own um you know memes and special things inside of them so for me you know the big meme is that i missed rockets and clash royale so there was like rockets flying all over the map i should have done something with my hairline but that would have been too technically capable oj for example one of our biggest creators he like had a you know all of these different like orange things orange lava on his map it was this really integrated campaign that went outside of just the scope of one hour transactional influencer marketing to where it was a longer term creative campaign and um i think for us from what we've seen that tends to be the most successful so um that's certainly you know uh something that we do uh white label esports production if people are looking to run an esports league for their game that's something we're able to take care of and and even just like general like consultation and strategy when it comes to what should a content strategy be on on our own and operated channels like hey i'm launching an fps game in mobile like what what's have you seen from

competitors in the space like what is what should our launch strategy look like or um you know how do we build creator retention tools and and and programs to where you know if we start working with some of these creators and we have these lifeblood creators who start posting around their game how do we keep them to where when a new game comes out that they don't just hop ship and leave us like how do we reward them and these are these are things like super unique for us that like myself as a creator i've had experience with as well as our team to where you know when you think about um just like a general like whether it's like a talent agency or a creative agency or one of these shops like we're just super we just have super unique insights because it's like all we've done over the last last decade and i think that's what a lot of um i think that's why like a lot of devs and publishers like working with us is because like we're actually like mobile gamers play these games and heck it might be a game that we like sign an esports team for who knows like we we like to be super involved in these communities so you do a lot of custom work and custom work requires more time because it's not like you know the normal package deal how big

is your organization to allow you to do these custom projects yeah for sure so for the biggest campaigns those tend to be more custom but we do have like more entry-level stuff as far as like dedicated content goes or certain pieces so it varies right now for us as far as staff goes so we have so we have 20 uh somewhere around like let's say 25 full-time employees i would say we have a number of contractors that work with us especially on like the gfx design side of thing we have around 40 players when it comes to esports and 20 creators i'd say we're just over 100 right now and really our biggest focus now is being able to scale up on um really like the sales and execution side of things we're just seeing um there's a lot of people who are super interested in a lot of stuff that we we do but it's uh you know we gotta we gotta clone ourselves a little bit and be able to scale up our staff it's a lot of fun making content and doing all these projects and um you know creating creating videos but we really need to build out our team who can uh sort of manage a lot of these these relationships and that's what like

our biggest focus has been on on the first half of this year so it's going well yeah so basically like project managers because i assume that you have a lot of different types of content creators that that first of all have to be on the treadmill of creating content and they have the teams around who are helping them to create this content and then a deal comes through like okay activision is coming from warzone for mobile like we need to get on this and then we need to be early on like six months before it launches we need to start you know thinking about different strategies and now the project managers have to essentially kick off with with ideation then start thinking about what kind of a team what kind of creators are going to come in when do they have to come in when are the videos going to be done absolutely because assuming it's an activision they have to review everything with a team of 500 people and give you some some great notes about what you should be cheating no we love actually we're not you know we love that they the call of duty team has been on this podcast like we my favorite game call of duty mobile everybody knows that amazing well-documented but uh you know just let's have fun uh anyway so they have

all their feedback their their corporation that takes a lot of time that takes a lot of um a lot of coordination and is that kind of like the the the bottleneck that you're having right now is project managers to to run these things yeah exactly i think especially for us like we uh we we have you know we've we have a multitude of case studies with different developers and publishers on programs events marketing creator programs all the above that have worked well for us it's just now the point of scaling that up and being able to bring other people like be able to build our team out wider to where we can work with more groups and we're just not limited to hey this is awesome we love your guys game but we just simply can't like dedicate enough resources to this as far as being able to give you you know we might be able to do one or two of our services that we have right now but we can't scale this up to like nine right now at least for like let's call it some of these you know top 100 grossing games who who want to work with us and do these massive brand marketing activations or or maybe it's a game that's popular um internationally who's coming to uh the

the us and like english-speaking markets for the first time and they're looking to make a major splash um yeah like if you run bandwidth and scaling that out that's the the biggest uh you know that's the biggest bottleneck but that's where a lot of the priorities been at the at the first half of this year and i'm super excited about the the team where we're building okay so let's talk a little bit about the other projects uh what type of projects no names but i mean you can say names but you don't have to say names just say names if you want off the camera anyway so so uh projects that you absolutely love i mean we kind of heard the projects that you love you love projects that allow you allow your team to be very creative to have more time where you can integrate with the game team where you can start early on with giving feedback being kind of heard as a content creator so you can support them when it finally goes live um you know basically project that supercell tends to run so a long-term relationship with a lot of freedom uh

and a lot of like uh working together talk to me about projects that suck like what is if if if i'm at a corp big corp x and i'm bringing my mobile game to you and i'm like hey chief pat shut the [ __ ] up let me tell you what to do like like like what is just just um you know just shut up and stream but uh like tell me tell me what is a how not to do a project like what what are the what leads to worst uh outcomes yeah i mean i think you sort of number one being like mega rigid um almost never works like people that come in maybe they've had success maybe they've even had success launching like a pc and console type title and they come to mobile we see now especially the trend the last 24 months every major ips coming on mobile if you think you can like ham fist the same strategy that works for pc and console and mobile and that like you know better than people have been doing it for a long time and the creators who just naturally know their audiences that always ends up being a failure in the end i think one thing that one of the worst things is

when you're just giving sort of unclear directions on the creator side of things so when it you know when you're working with a group and they don't really give you enough guardrails and you spend all this time producing this amazing spot that you're super excited about and then it comes back to you know the group for revision and review and they're like hey well this isn't really what we want and then they give you all these different things like if you want a creator to hate you that's like the number one thing to do um you know just give on clear directions and then have like five revisions come their way you're just not gonna get you're not gonna get the same investment level from someone if they're not having fun working with you on your project that's just i mean that's how it goes i'm sure that goes outside of creators that just goes to business in general um and i think like the la the last thing is like working with people who really just like you want to work with people who generally enjoy your game if you find people who generally enjoy your game that's when you're going to have explosive results case study is someone like oj oj uh who for reference is like the biggest uh english-speaking mobile creator right now averages like i think like somewhere around like 40 million views a month on on youtube

he's insane he's bigger than ninja and all these other mainstream pc and console creators that you know as far as like monthly viewership goes so him he was a you know him and i actually together we did a campaign for for cookie run kingdom um when it was launching and we had a ton of fun in the game and oj was addicted he was sending me messages at 2 a.m about like dude i just like unlocked you know butter cookie and i was like dude i don't care like go to bed um and he he was so excited and passionate about the game we ended up parlaying that with him um and dev sisters into him actually creating a dedicated channel around cookie run kingdom content um and we put together you know a brief and these deliverables to where hey we're going to sort of install oj as this creator ambassador for your game because they didn't know they didn't really have very much content being created around their game and people didn't know that being a cookie run creator was actually a feasible thing because there was no one to look up to oj started this channel started posting around the game this channel is doing like 500 000 views per video it grew bigger than his main channel for a

certain point around cookie run he actually ended up being the muscle cookie inside of the game and voicing over the cookie oj tells me now that when he's on dating apps which he's single by the way guys yeah i'm just letting him know on the podcast he says all the time on dating apps people are like hey all the above they're like listen they reach out and he gets the first message are you the cookie run guy are you muscle cookie and he's like oh my so that's how successful it's been that now on tinder he has people calling him muscle cookie so just saying these sorts of programs where someone loves the game when they love the game and they actually like you give them creative freedom to go outside the box of just like we want a 60-second ad spot and that's it hit these ctas like that turned into one of the most successful mobile game activations ever um because it was something that he loved he had creative freedom with and the developers were willing to to work with him around that so finding people who who enjoy your game and it doesn't again it doesn't have to be a perfect fit for the game they're playing on their channel but if they love it and you can bring them in early and sort of foster that relationship it goes a long way

and he started before he had the contract with uh with the developer of cookie jam or or when he got the contract so we started with an individual um sponsored content piece on his main channel and on my main channel and then from there weeks have gone by of oj you know uh talking about cookie run and so we reapproached you know we reapproached the developers saying hey we got a crazy idea what do you guys think because for oj and when it comes to these games so even if oj loves cookie run the opportunity cost of him posting it on his channel and specifically for his audience who might subscribe for a certain game there's a high opportunity cost he could piss off his audience he could ruin his watch time raid he could do all these things so for him you know even though he loves the game it doesn't make from a strategic sense it doesn't make sense to actually post the game and risk all these things and that's why you know especially for that second channels you know spending time hiring editors and designers and developing a content strategy for this game that was unproven on youtube no matter how much he loved it it didn't make sense to make that dive so cookie run being able to

establish that relationship and help build that channel and sponsor that channel for him um enabled him to take that jump to where now it's i mean paid off tenfold and um he's because of him and how he's been able to grow his channel we've even seen that other cookie run channels have spawned up because now they know it's possible to create content around the game and so the way it works is like a single influencer can have multiple channels and the channels focus on either a specific game or you know or just you know something else right pokemons yeah and that's that's actually an important point when talking about these mobile games so we have developers who come out to us and they say hey you guys the only thing we want to do with you guys is a dedicated video on your youtube channel and that's it it's like okay well what's the game i play ball stars every day on my channel they're like this game is a match three game and it's like okay well no one is gonna care and my audience is gonna hate me and it's no one's gonna click it the views aren't going to be as good because it's not a fit if it was a game that was a similar fit or a game with a major ip call of

duty mobile or a game that was in a similar genre you know that has a chance to potentially be a dedicated video on my channel but this game it's not a fit for this piece of content you should be doing more of an integration inside of one of my current videos so more of a 60 to 90 second spot like this is where you know you're gonna get 15 times the viewership it's going to be more natural and it's not going to harm the creators channel and it's going to just be more efficient and a lot of devs listen and you know they see the case studies and they realize that okay that makes sense but others they want to like nope we need a dedicated video around it and then they're sad when it gets 10 as many views as one of their their normal uploads so really you have to be careful depending on your game and the creator like what type of asset are you actually you know what type of content piece are you doing and where is it living um it's always going to vary and i think number one like having you know number one on your own that you should be educated and have insights on like where i should be and number two like listen to the talent because a lot of the time especially for us you know not being just like a normal talent agency shop like we want to have multi-year relationships with these groups and when

we're telling them you should be doing this it's not because like you know we want to like do one campaign and have it end like we want to work with you for years to come so please listen to us and we're willing to ideate with you but um you know the good ones listen and are willing to you know hear feedback and the bad ones say no just post this video and then they get sad when it doesn't do as well as they thought so not talking about good or bad ones but i remember when we were doing a deconstruction of uh command and conquer rivals it was a mobile game of command and conquers they came on uh a few years ago like this was before brawl stars this was when clash royale was the hottest thing like rts the biggest rts and i remember like it was actually on your channel where they had like one random video you're like you were posting only clash royale it's like clash royale clash round it's like you can see the numbers of the views like you know hundreds of thousands of thousands and then there's like one low it's like command and conquer just like right smack in the middle getting ten percent off of what normal videos would get and then you're back on normal you know the clash royale numbers so that was just an example of uh of bad fit uh even though

the game was same but the viewers that watched your videos only wanted to see clash royale they couldn't give a [ __ ] about anything else like clash royale or go you know anyway that's a great point like you and that's our favorite campaigns that we found you know sometimes these one-off spots can work sometimes they might not work but like what we found is tying things together into something more broadly so maybe you do a sponsored piece of content maybe the game is a better fit for an integration not only would like me as a creator maybe i spend the first 45 seconds talking about the game like what i like about the game promoting the game and maybe the last 45 seconds i'm talking about hey not only like am i having fun playing this game but by the way i'm gonna be participating in an event on this game's own and operated channel which you guys can tune into and it tells a broader story that goes longer than one ad spot it goes into you know this can turn into something that goes over the days and weeks and it you know i think the the last thing that we want to see is something that um the game isn't a fit and it's transactional

here's a here's a check do post this game um that's it and you know uh yeah going going deeper and making you know making these campaigns more meaningful is like when you just tend to win over the creators as well as their fans that's a and um last one on this on this part is what kind of a developers are the smallest ones that you work with like because you know we've been talking about ea we'll be talking about activision um any of these companies that supercell infinite resources with all of them what is the sort of a smallest one i mean super people megacorp wasn't big it was a startup but but kind of like what are the budgets so that people listening to this would would have a comprehensions like when when kind of can i come in and talk to tribe yeah absolutely i mean i think that you can it definitely depends on who you are and like what your goals and objectives are so someone like a call of duty mobile and like their goals as far as like brand and community building go um are going to be different than someone who are like a smaller developer and like it's all about cpis and ltv and

whatever else all the all the jargon that you know better than me um so it's gonna be it's gonna be different i would say like for us you can definitely get in the door and like start testing with creators um you know for as little as a thousand dollars and working and getting feedback on what's working and what's not working but you know broader campaigns it can range you can go from a thousand dollar campaign to a million dollar campaign it's all about sort of what are your goals and objectives and for smaller companies like you know especially smaller developers if you guys are looking for um just pure um you know pure revenue numbers and like cpi then obviously like going through um at google and facebook and just traditional paid media like is gonna i imagine gonna be a much higher priority although there are some interesting case studies of like using our creators in those pieces do really well which we could talk more about um but um but yeah you can start at a relatively low budget uh just understand that you know where sort of like influencer

marketing brand marketing and like performance marketing like how these all mixed together and what your expectations are um and especially like if you're a smaller studio and your game's like going really well and maybe you're about to like do something you know you've got really healthy numbers and you want to do something bigger and broader that involves creators and more brand related stuff then we would definitely be like a perfect perfect fit for that but what we really like doing is hey what are your goals what's going on we want to win your business for five years so let's test and let's show you guys these things before you overcommit on something that like you inevitably like did not like in the end um so yeah yeah so you you would you would um kind of encourage them when when the uh when the games are ready to be scaled up because what are we talking about mobile game marketing budget which you know at 10 m a year is a is a you know it starts to be like on the healthy side so i think at that point it makes sense already to start talking to tribe and start 100 start adding like a mixed media model to it like influencers being one of the uh one of the key parts

of the of the media channels you're using yeah i think if you're like a smaller you know if you're a smaller studio and maybe you don't have you know you don't have the um like resources to do something along the lines of one of these major campaigns still definitely talk to us and like especially messages people when they make like custom messages to us and it's not just a copy paste on what they send off billion creators but when they reach out to us whether to our creators or the tribe like something that's like actually more personalized like hey here's what we're doing with the game like you know we're still early we want to be able to work with you guys later on um you know they don't just say like hey we're going to give you ten dollars in in-game currency can you do five dedicated videos those are those are always the best emails um you know if you reach out like a genuine no to a creator or to or even us like about like hey here are our goals and what we want to do um we found success like revisiting some of those relationships later take light fox games and and a nice edge and even for us like we're sort of experimenting with ways that we can work with groups who maybe don't have um you know who aren't like top 100 grossing grossing games about doing some broader you know finding

different ways to work together outside of like what we're doing already no spoilers but more coming soon on that yeah makes sense and and just kind of like remembering um you know my wife running with the super evil super evils um influencer campaigns i remember how they fostered that community like they of course chose smaller influencers they were on the come up just like super evil megacorp was on the come up and they you know flew the man you know kind of invited to be a part of the family uh you know everybody was was testing the game so kind of created real relationship and these these guys were small like their numbers were like thousand or a few thousand and as the game grew they grew with the game and were helping to be a part of that growth story so there are different growth strategies like you don't have to like it's not chief pat or nothing like there's definitely those who like like you can be on the come up and tribe has different types of influencers so you might be riding with with somebody with a slightly smaller numbers but that's more cost efficient for you and

it makes sense for where you are right now major really important point you're exactly right i think a lot of sometimes even people they get they get those big wide eyes when they see different creators names we want to work with the biggest of the biggest we want to work with pewdiepie we want to work with ninja the reality is that some of your creators right now who are playing your game these are your lifeblood creators just because you do a sponsored campaign with someone unless it's a fit for their audience for the longer term they're not going to be the ones who are the future creators for your title unless it reaches a certain point the creators you already have within your existing community you need to bring them in you need to foster them and enable them maybe it's sending you know a swag pack just right like i remember the first time supercell reached out to me i i used to hide my channel from supercell because i thought they were gonna ban me for using their ip and sentiment when that stupid barbarian face appeared in my comment section for the first time i almost [ __ ] myself and then it said hey chief nice video and that was the most amazing thing ever being acknowledged from the dev they got me that luxurious two-bedroom hotel room and just built that direct connection and relationship with them for i definitely advise whether or not you

have a budget if people are creating content around their game 100 get in touch with them you know work to enable them whether it's cross promotion whether it's even just sending them like a you know we we love to work and we advise groups like hey send a small swag package to some of your core creators who might be recording like i did out of their laundry room dorm or their dorms laundry room send them a mic send them a swag pack send them your shirts they're gonna love you forever like smc now for me i'm an smc for lifer with vanglory and now with catalyst black which i'm super excited about and i would go above and beyond for the game because i cared about it so much and um definitely for developers like don't lose sight of your creator who gets 5000 views per video around your game for someone who gets 200 000 views per video around another game like those are the people that will be playing your game online potentially for the next 10 years if you think about some of the clash of clans creators who are still creating content and having success there so um a hundred percent you should be focusing and working on building those relationships and it should be it should be priority one because once the dust settles of these spawn this sponsored content you know these are going to be

the people who are pushing your game forward exactly exactly um a few things before i let you go idfa deprecation big thing on mobile um really [ __ ] up everybody's lunch with uh with taking away our easiest tool facebook marketing campaigns so that becomes more difficult mainly in terms of targeting and especially in mid-core games um not as much with games with with big ips but still um how has this shift been seen in in your line of business is it more business is it less business is it the same has has this had any impact in the world of of tribe yeah i think it definitely has like from conversations we've had people are like more willing to explore influencer marketing and broader brand marketing now that um obviously it's more more difficult with idfa and the changes that have been made i wouldn't say it's explicitly we've had people call us be like hey with these changes we're just going straight to influencer marketing and thinking that

we're gonna you know this is gonna replace everything that we're doing but i think people have gone away from um just using some of these like paid you know paid media campaigns to where now influencers are more and more part of their strategy so i think that's one shift we've seen um you know my dream is that eventually one day youtube will let us actually sell like direct pre-rolls against our content with our creators because you know we have a hundred million plus people per month viewing these videos and if we could target them with these spots it would actually be i mean it would be incredible um not available yet hopefully one day youtube if you're listening to this please but um but i also think uh it's also changed the interest from um different developers when it comes to using our talent in ua spots so whether it's someone like oj for example having him create a 30 second 15 second spot around their game whether it's a kairos any any of these major talents you now see more and more people are asking us for hey actually we don't even want an integration on your youtube channel can you just make us a custom spot that we can use to run in ads um and that that actually the interest there has grown so

so big that like that might even be separated as its own business unit at one point for us because um the data's just been compelling for like why these spots featuring creators now or are performing even better and i wish um yeah i wish i had more transparency on the data other than like what's hitting our inbox but that's something we want to do a lot a lot more with soon and sounds like that's something that's been that's definitely something that's changed since since idfa yeah i i know raid shadow legends has uh has ninja in it uh yeah they added him i think they added him as a character but i just remember the uh the ad where he's being you know added to the game like that type of stuff you mean oh yeah yeah and i got i got to give um well yeah not only being added to the game but yeah the ads featuring those spots i need to give great a shout out they actually are amazing what i remember one of our creators lex he made an integration you know the 60 to 90 second spot that was going to appear in one of his normal youtube videos for raid i had no i was like lex you've lost your mind there's no chance this is going to be approved i forget what the content was inside of it but it was it was the most ridiculous thing i've ever

seen they approved it they said let's do it we love it they're actually had their team they need to get credit for actually like letting embracing the meme of rage shadow legends and like uh letting creators go with it so shout out to polarium oh is i mean their marketing organization is is yes if not you know if not the best in the business but definitely in like top five it's an amazing company and and what they've done i mean yeah all their ads everything i mean you know what can you say about platinum they're amazing crazy um okay so last one before i let you go the the most triggering topic blockchain gaming what's going on with this you know there are companies that are dying to get these crypto bros to spend millions of on jpegs aka nfts aka efps uh for games that are still so far away from launching just you know on a whim of a road map that may or may not be true so have you seen blockchain

companies using influencers to generate hype for the upcoming drops yes definitely but it's like it's way different than what i'm used to so i'm used to with developers that we've worked with um they they actually like the audience that they want versus some of these like play to earn and like blockchain gaming projects are way different for you know take for example everything that we've just talked about like when they they want to actually like the people that we work with right now for like let's call it like i don't know web 2 publishers developers like they want actual players who are corely gonna play their game and stick around for the long term it feels like for these projects that are being released it's not about like actually that they're targeting someone completely different they're targeting whales and people who want to like financially speculate on these projects um and not people that are actually going to play their game and stick around for the long term so instead of seeing promotions on youtube and twitch for example where most games go to these blockchain games are being promoted through twitter and discord and

actually they're using like different uh subsets of creators they're not even really using gaming creators because their audiences unless the game is similar to their audience their audiences are so much different they really want to get those whales and the speculator for the title so for us you know we've started first of all for me like my personal take is i've spent tens of thousands of dollars on mobile games and digital ownership if that's a thing you know uh and i could sell my clash royale cards to someone else at some point or trade them but i'm all in count me in i love that you know if that's possible within the game's economies to have that ownership trust me you know forbes wrote an article on me at one point because they read an ad read it ama that i spent so much money on the game like i uh i would love to return some of that at some point when it comes to these titles but let's be honest you also made money off the game oh so it's a business expense it's a business expense 10 out of 10 exactly um but but yeah so like i'm super into that but for now with the current projects and like the state of these projects a lot it's a lot less about the games it's a lot more

about hype it's a completely different audience but i'm sure at some point especially over the next couple of years and we've seen like we talked to some of these devs uh pretty frequently and we've seen some amazing projects some that we've actually even like made investments into that we think in the future are going to be um really interesting and impactful games and titles but for now like um we're sort of standing on the sidelines as far as like um you know what we do and how we relate to these games or even our influencers relate to these games i do think we're in a unique position because a lot of what we do with these like web 2 publishers in theory should be really similar to what some of these like player and what three developers want they want creators they want community they want that even like these the creators and community and their games are actually their investors like that's going to be even more valuable to them so in theory that's like what they should want and a lot of what we do transfers really well into this area but for right now because the games aren't playable and the games you know the quality just isn't there and the audiences that they want are so different um we just sort of have to wait until like the in my mind we have to wait until the like you know the

smoke clears and some of these projects that like are super badass games that happen to be built around nfts are are they i can just summarize this you're not doing blockchain gaming promotion now yet because you have integrity you've built the business that is sustainable and you don't want to scam people so yeah but in the future i agree i'm there with you 100 like what we're seeing right now is the first wave and pretty much everybody with the brain agrees that 99 of this garbage is gonna go to zero because it's just speculative uh and and nobody really cares what the quote-unquote game is if they just care about the value going up and they can sell at some point and they don't care if the game ever even comes out and the influencers for them are as you said influencers on discord influencers on telegram influencers in real life like obj has a has some kind of a nfd elon musk has the new babe board ape and some some you know stuff like that so so they're looking those are kind of like their influence at the moment but uh you want gamers call us

we'll be here yeah yeah and i think it's gonna get there but we're so early and the amount of investment these companies have raised is just it's kind of been forced on everybody when it's not ready yet and um you know in a few years in a few years oh i've been told everyone's telling me like you need to create a a five five page deck with one like uh one art model of a character and say you're building a web three game at tribe and you guys would you know it would be insane but yeah i think we're waiting to see like the dust settle we there's some projects we we do like but they're still like you know in development and um you know still to be seen exactly like how the game is actually gonna gonna be but when it comes to like current projects that are you know saying all these things about how their game is gonna end up or what it's gonna i don't know there's a right and wrong way to do it and there's a lot of people that are doing the wrong way so we don't want to we want to reduce our you know involvement until it's a little bit clearer and there's a lot of risk as well uh

when it comes to minting these nfts like you might have to pay a transaction fee you're not actually not going to get the nft like all this kind of a nonsense that you just don't want to be a part of like you don't want your two axes being tarnished by by this by the scammy nature of uh of blockchain gaming until it evolves to a point where it's actually sustainable and yeah i again bullish on digital owner ownership uh i'm not a developer so i don't know like exactly how these economies will work but in theory like i understand again oh and not people who you know just want to buy and flip then we're all in maybe i don't know all right chief pat the floor is yours do you want to promote anything regarding tribe uh regarding yourself uh

anything like like what do you need the uh the audience is listening okay first of all you guys you need to if you haven't subscribed already to the deconstructor fun podcast you need to do that right now how's that for a plug hook it up spot sponsored by google hey that's what i'm talking about um yeah so shout out to you shout out to your pod um yeah i mean honestly like for anyone who just wants to reach out powdertribegaming.gg um shoot an email if you're no matter who you are like super interested to hear your take always down to chat whether you're you know maybe an indie studio or some major company or whoever else like love just meeting people and saying hi but not um yeah that's it that that's all i i mean follow me on twitter do your thing by all means but mostly follow follow mishka and shoot me an email all right um yeah so uh yeah thank you thank you pat you're the man uh it's it's been amazing to uh like not amazing amazing is a wrong word it's too american it's been inspiring

to because i haven't like followed you closely you know just just seeing like chief pat here chief about there but now kind of like inspiring from like the first time i saw you to like hearing about the organization that you've built and the mogul that you've become and the mogul that you will be even even bigger one with uh with the silk robe and the parrot on your on your shoulder and a new set of hair like i'm super excited about about the uh about the short term future gains that are gonna uh come come your way so uh very inspiring inspiring stuff and um yeah check out chief pat check out tribe when you're launching your game when you're scaling your game talk to these guys they do they do proper campaigns they help big games become massive so that's what i'm talking about again note you're doing my youtube intros and outros oh yeah all right on that note thank you everybody for listening thanks to

pat patrick carney it was a pleasure bye bye everybody