Panel: The Master of Multiplayer Panel

[Music] thank you [Music] so now we're going to move to our panel so um I think so do we have a microphone for the panel or uh yeah Okay cool so that's going to be easier then um so we're just gonna sit down yet prepare slowly uh but surely we're gonna dive way more into multiplayer now so that we can have like a common ground of understanding of um uh what is production but also what do you do at the virus virus phases

um so um um yeah I'm gonna let people come on stage and actually need the clicker because we have slides for this uh panel as well um so just come over guys all right thank you Arnie so I'll let you introduce yourself as soon as we have a microphone same for you now well actually we're gonna have a microphone for both of you guys so it's much easier all right so um uh we do have a bit more time which is great because my talk was shorter and previous talk was shorter as well I suppose it then yeah that's right so um um so now the goal is really to to dive into uh multiplayer uh as I said multiple multiple times that Master uh mastering multiplayer is actually very hard um you there's various stage that you can find yourself in uh you can be someone that's been doing games for decades and now you're you're dripping

your your feet in it or you already have really seen release games and have a full operation side of it um so um so I I will skip introducing myself so I'll let you guys introduce and what what is your parkour and uh then we're gonna dive into the subject of this panel yeah so hello everybody uh my name is I am CEO and co-founder at super plus games uh we've been around for around eight years now so time flies uh it's been quite a long journey for us we're mostly known for our game called Hills of Steel one uh that has already like uh 100 million downloads and uh it was a single player game in the beginning but we kind of started adding multiplayer elements to it and we also created the sequel to Hills of Steel one uh Hills of Steel 2 which is a sort of a three versus three real-time PVP take on the same concept we're also working on oceans of Steel which is coming out uh at the end of next month and that also

has a kind of a different take on the PVP concept and we also have a fourth game in production which actually uses photons Quantum but unfortunately I can't reveal anything about it since it's a bit harsh hush at this point but uh yeah that's basically my my introduction hey hello everybody I'm Sami Latin and head of studio in dual dreams and uh yeah I've been here for a while so just celebrated my 20 20th anniversary in mobile games so I've been here since the black and white screens and the crunchy buttons and uh one frame per second stuff so yeah I'm old and yeah dual dreams is a developer behind driver head which is a car gladiator fight and it's uh it's fun if you haven't played it please do and it has gained over 200 million downloads already so it's uh it has been there for a while so the game has gone through quite an evolution from uh offline client only at at monetizing

only game to proper free-to-play game and the next step for that is that it's going to be real time multiplayer thanks to Autumn guys so we are working on it and you will see something amazing soon so um thank you again for being here today so we have a few subjects that we're going to dive in and the first one is the current state of multiplayer uh so obviously multiplayer has been here for multiple decades uh but it's been pretty much redundant meaning that we all know what is a first person shooter we pretty much know what's going to be the end goal um and um and it's been you know quite quite quite a long Evolution from multiplayer to where we are today and just to give you some stats so five years ago in the top 100 grossing games you had 12 games that were multiplayer and nowadays it's 78 of those games that

are multiplayer so I already can see the trend of multiplayer games are going more and more present into our ecosystem so my first questions for you guys is that um what have you seen uh what where where do you you think things are right now and will we go through some sort of a moment where um all of us here will eventually do multiplayer yeah it's really hard to save all of us will be doing multiplayer at some point I think single player experiences still have a lot of plays but I think multiplayer is going through a lot of evolution like we're pretty good I would say in some sort of like competitive multiplayer space start but I think also like Co-op experiences are something that players are yearning currently and there aren't that many of those uh there haven't been that many of those on the market yet so I think that's at least something there's also a lot of push for

like uh this user generated content type of stuff and I think that's true for like uh single player games in to some extent as well but I I will do all of that field as some sort of an extension to a multiplayer sort of universe and uh uh it's it's been really tough uh lately to kind of get players to have any sort of retention in your game so you kind of need to think about these sorts of experiences and I I think these are the sort of next uh Evolution steps that we're gonna see yeah so definitely when you when you have players around and you participate in if especially if you go in a clan you there's 100 chance that you will that the player will come back and see the growth of that group of individuals that you're part of um yeah definitely and and and what about the your point of view competing against each other have been there already for a while but uh having fun with friends and playing having a

good time together is something that is trending up now and uh games like uh stumble guys and amongst us that clearly uh proves it that there's a there's a demand for it and uh it's uh it's just it's not so serious it's very casual it's easy to approach you learn it in a minute because you see how what everybody else is doing so it is uh it's a becoming a little bit more casual entertainment than what it has been and uh area for more to enter the market barrier for Market entry is becoming lower because previously it has been pretty much big boys game to do all the research work with the physics engines Etc but now there are like Alternatives that you can start developing the game not developing the technology behind the game and that makes it easier to build those entertainment products that serves a little bit of uh there will be more variation what kind of what kind of

players they serve and um so not only on mobile but if we look on VR the most popular games are mostly uh multiplayer experience as well such as rec room VR chat or the poker games and they just keep going and going where uh the interaction between the players creates this collaboration effect and I agree with you which is cooperation you know it's almost inexistent in games it's always competition fighting you know between each other so I would suggest all of you to investigate in a you know like even if we look at the uh at the what what kind of games kids are playing in in the in the backyard sometimes it's games that the everyone has to cooperate together to do something and so there's multiple elements to learn regarding this and when people collaborate I was talking about that earlier it released dopamine

when they succeed at achieving something so there's new type of gameplays that we don't know right it's really hard to uh to put a finger on it but these needs to be created so so mobile is is is um is a device that you we all carry in our pockets it means that we can be notified at any times um so uh do you see like the the mobile phone has the premier multiplayer destination um at the moment um and um and because most of the time when we think about multiplayer we think about PC games or console right um but not necessarily on mobile so um so since you have your live game um how do you how do you end all these communication between the players and how uh how do they bring the moment together um is it something that you explore or that you are looking for uh so yeah uh we we employ a lot of like

uh chat related elements in the game we we try to have a lot of like Community Based stuff uh we we actually even outside the game we put a lot of effort into actually having some sort of community activity uh in Discord in YouTube and sort of trying to bring all of those elements together inside the game inside the chat uh there are team building elements that you can uh put together your own actual like team inside the game uh and the clan feature as well so you can kind of collaborate that way uh with the other players uh that's sort of we're still exploring like other ways of bringing more like maybe voice chat or something like that into the games we haven't done that yet so there's a lot of like opportunities for actually bringing bringing the people together inside the games yeah our aim is also to bring people together and uh originally when driver it was developed it was a multiplayer game although very very low Tech you actually played on the same device so it was it was already there so core

supports that and it doesn't mean that it's not there anymore when you have a multiplayer with the different devices because that's the it can be the same context of how you are playing the game the fact is that we are all carrying our devices in our pockets we can fire up a room right away and start playing together and enjoy that entertainment right away in the same room in the same space and that's we have kind of our knows that very powerful thing because Communication channel exists there so there are those swearing and hailing and celebrations And the emotions authentically in that space when you are playing in the same room it is of course good acid test to go to different rooms and uh and uh and see if the game is fun anymore so we need to then establish the communication channel in between payers but the but the I think there's more and more that kind of a habit that the players are kind of a firing up the game

ad hoc when they are in the same space and enjoying it playing in the same side or playing against somebody it doesn't matter yeah the trust and altruism are two beautiful things that make us human um so uh next subject so exclusive tactic finding so obviously like in the past years there was a multiple Improvement we we did bring a lot to the table at Photon but also what we what we're seeing a lot is for example with xcloud Microsoft we have a cloud rendering that helps to for some devices to be able to connect to each other there's also uh well voice we just talked about that voice filters and other elements that are super interesting to personalize each every single of the experience so um what have you found that makes your life easier nowadays regarding like technology do you happen to know of a company who does like real-time multiplayer components that that has made our uh

like multiplayer possible in the first place I think uh photon is now in use first Photon Unity networking that we use on hills of Steel 2 and then Quantum that we use for our fourth Oshkosh project uh but in addition to that I think putting extra security layers into your actual build so actual build security some sort of a denouevo solution or whatever I think goes a long way to provide some extra protection to your build so you make sure that hackers don't get into your game they can't modify the memory values uh another thing is like you could of course probably have some sort of an authoritative server solution and I believe you guys have some solutions to that as well but I think on mobile the sort of build projection stuff works uh quite well to actually provide some extra layer of protection for your actual build so the multiplayer experience isn't poisoned by players who can possibly cheat

for driver had the deterministic nature of quantum is something that we've been looking for for years and then it happened and then we started developing the game and uh one important fact for us is the video replays so private there are lots of kind of fun moments that happens when you hit your opponent or some some obstacle hits you and our players are quite keen on sharing those and uh with the deterministic physics physics engine we can actually do those in-game replays in the way that it's not video recording but uh it's just the saving uh the coordinates and and the actions and then replayed in the very well save it in the very cost efficient manner so that's that has been very important for for us the deterministic nature of the the engine yeah and to add to that sorry so uh that's actually something that we're also planning for our board game and it's like entirely made possible with

the quantum and how it's structured and how the deterministic physics engine works so we're also like looking into that I think that's a really big aspect that people can actually see and study other players games and how they went uh and uh kind of sort of that that also creates that collaborative Community effect in the game and you have to add as many of those in your game as possible to actually succeed and that's the the big advantage of multiplayer games is that you can look at others playing and just by looking you learn and then you can improve your own abilities so definitely like a replace is something you should look at because you know learning is a natural thing so and now let's go to our next subject which is multiplayer Productions uh single player multiplayer extremely different um so we are we're used to go like uh one way regarding uh building a simulation where we're talking about multiplayer the simulation needs

Authority that we call so that we can reconcile the elements it means that when you control elements in your scene or in your game it's different but also the pipeline the QA the production of assets and how to integrate all these things so I'm curious about like um uh if you had to evolve the way you produce or not well yeah certainly like you mentioned QA is probably the first thing that you notice uh during development especially when like if you have a smaller team like we usually do in mobile games it's really hard to kind of test your uh actual PVP components if you're in a game you you need to go around the company and be like hey let's play a session and let's have a session and let's test how this actually works so that's already like you need a lot more resources for your actual QA process to make sure that everything works of course like testing different regions of the world and maybe if you have some sort of like way of testing actual

Network latencies and whatever you have a lot more like variants of what what are all the things that can actually go wrong uh in the in the program so so that that's already like a lot more complex thing and then also like uh just uh maybe launching a game when it's multiplayer is really different because I think like you need to have a really good matchmaking system of course so that you can make sure that you your players are matched with uh equally good uh players so that they're actually having fun that the win rate of the players is good but for that you need actual players to exist so it's really hard to kind of uh have a good amount of players in all the regions and all the times of day to actually launch a game so that's a really hard thing and that means that you need a really good AI for your game and at some point when you're if you play too much against AIS you can kind of start to see patterns that they they have and patterns that emerge from the actual

behavior of the AI so that also like you have to maybe do a bit more work on AI and make them behave like they were players uh in order to make an actually engaging experience of your game so definitely production challenges are like there's a lot more of them and you kind of discover them as you go along uh in your first journey and even when you've done it a couple times you've done multiplayer for a while you still like discover new new sorts of issues because you cannot test multiplayer without user right so obviously Bots helps at the big time yeah how about here five seconds those issues that are but there's one positive thing which is uh testing is quite popular inside the studio so when uh well we can have like good daily sessions because it's so damn fun to play the game so that it's kind of a tested and tested All Over Again by the by the developer so that's kind of a benefit of it positive positive cursing

you here from the studio is quite uh quite addictive yep so one suggestion well so for I'm in the lucky position where I see uh hundreds of multiplayer games every month and uh different kind of production and and one thing that I I can you know say for everyone is that uh yes it's fun to test in the studio but it's very important to take new players that never played your build so we call that like the kleenex effect where you know you do it you throw it away because it's very important in multiplayer game to really have that first feeling that first onboarding that people get into it all the way to the moment where they can reach like players that are have the same mindset and then retention starts to happen also to test to play the game in different places and context is is it the public transportation or restaurant or bar or home or bedroom or wherever ever it is it kind of gives a different flavor where where you play the game and uh if there's one thing for sure is that

interrupting someone in a multiplayer game it's much harder than a single player game because usually you know you have the pressure of your uh of your team or whatever and you're like no don't don't don't make me stop my game so um so we all went through like a very hard time uh in the past years and uh multiplayer was great because then you could play with some friends or connect with your family using a video chat and other services um you know like being together is important as being human so um you know during Trio production or being with your live game how did you you know saw a multiplayer as a solution yeah it's it's hard to hard to say like but I I think a lot of people kind of found the value for multiplayer games uh during covet and even I'm super thankful that we have platforms like Discord and we have multiplayer games that we could like connect with a lot of our friends especially during the most uh biggest

periods of lockdown uh you could see like a lot of like new even new GEOS for us uh we we saw spikes in players when and and those aligned really well with the news that you read from like papers that Italy is in lockdown we suddenly see like more players from Italy entering our game and playing those so I I definitely say that kovid like showed the value of that and I think a lot of that hasn't gone away uh since the lockdowns have kind of uh covet hasn't gone away but like everything isn't locked down anymore so there's definitely there's definitely been like more value showed the people among these experiences there was bigger demand for connecting with people and one multiplayer game is one way to do that and the other factor is that we kind of learned how to communicate with different tools like video conferencing Etc and organize those uh play sessions

together so that we can for example agree that hey let's play that game at three o'clock today and then your your friends are there and you established Communication channel wherever you do and then enjoy the game together so that's kind of a learning to communicate remotely is something that benefits multiplayer games quite a bit and um so obviously when you do um multiplayer production we've touched it a little bit there's a risk associated with you know bringing new teams into a vertical that they have never touched but also like an investment perspective which is uh um you're gonna you know not only spend time but spend money to making sure that you're successful into your multiplayer Endeavor so how do you mitigate risk and how do you make sure that the steps that you're doing are in

the right direction hard question hard question because I don't know uh which which which way I should go and go about answering it uh do you have anything I was going to say that hard question you go first but I mean yeah there are risks but and of course there's cost involved it's a operational cost how to run the servers and how the how the audience like it and risk if there's enough enough players in matchmaking but all those can be somehow calculated and estimated and their the risk can be somehow somehow mitigated but I think the benefits are of course far bigger than the risk than risks involved I think one of the biggest risks that you can mitigate somehow is the toxicity of the community I think that's been a part of like multiplayer since from the beginning unfortunately it is this case

so uh we're right now exploring some sort of tools to actually help us moderate our chat a bit more automated uh so having some sort of machine learning algorithms into looking at actually what's uh are some players being toxic or whatever that's at least something you can mitigate and should mitigate if you want your community to be actually good uh another thing is of course like if your server costs are high and your LTV is low you need to kind of prepare for that if you're going to have a really massively viral hit but it doesn't like make any money you have to kind of be uh careful about the server cost so not not opening too many countries in your soft launch or maybe controlling the amount of downloads that you're actually getting uh there's always some some sort of a mitigation risk but if you're not super sure that you're getting the money back then then you have to kind of look at the server cost versus actual LTV of the players and how how that will how that will go usually it isn't an issue

if you have some sort of monetization in the game the server costs are actually not like super high but there can be some somewhat uh game is not making money but it is getting a lot of downloads it has a lot of virality so the um so what we call like um networked apologies so that helps to understand where your cost is going to be so when and the game is hosted on the client device obviously it's going to much be much cheaper than if it is on a dedicated server somewhere where you have to pay for the for the bare metal machine the bandwidth and all the other Airlines and I totally agree you have to Target your person regarding the hosting and you touch a bit about there's a company called Community shift I don't know if you you know that one but it's a tip for you maybe but they specialize in that which is uh on the fishing or also on long period of

time two three months that um adults that strikes convince kids to go somewhere so there's going to be a detection that are automated because obviously when you and that is great because it's actually the next uh subject which is communities right uh which is that um you have to take care of your community uh both outside of your platform inside of your game you have to be responsible so communities you know you can make a little change in your game and then you have like a pitchfork and fire torches thrown at you and and you have to react to that so so how do you manage your community in general apart from the toxicity yeah so we have like in-house Community Management and customer support team we take a look at all of our platforms where we have some sort of community activity uh especially Hills and steel one even has a lot of like uh influencers who do videos in uh YouTube uh we look at the comments from there we

have our own Discord server where we have thousands of players actually uh joining And discussing every every day uh we look at all of the reviews that we get we look at all of the emails that we get from players and our customer support team actually like kind of uh kind of compiles lists uh to the actual product teams and discusses with them what the players are actually wanting I think it's really important to kind of try to have as many Community elements outside the game as well because uh these days it's really hard to get users via UA just just like that so it's really good to have some sort of like organic growth going on in your game and this is one of the best ways that I think like hills of Steel one has grown since it took off in kind of like YouTube land and people started doing videos and that that kind of led to led to some good stuff in that game so that's kind of how how we look at the community stuff I guess so so if I

disagree with the sensitive so we take your support and Community managers and then put the ponderation and then I guess you have like your game designers as idea you look at your kpis and based on that triangle you're going to make decisions yeah that's exactly how it goes okay all right and uh what we're actually trying to also like now do in the future is actually release our roadmap for the game in our days not everything in it so not making false promises to the players but the things that we know that are absolutely gonna hit the game we're probably going to be trying out actually releasing the schedule for when you're getting a new tank or when you're getting a new feature and uh getting feedback from the players before they actually uh get the bills because I can see there's like we release a really cool feature we make really beautiful Graphics we make sure that the feature works well and then players sometimes they're like why did you do this why didn't you do that it's

like okay uh I'm sorry we there was a miscommunication here so we want to try to like establish a direct connection from the players to the dev team and try to look at the kpis at the same time and make decisions for the product what we should be actually doing yeah pretty similar approach uh in dual dreams we have a Community Management who does it under Community constantly communicates and tries to be a little bit uh kind of a not following what's going on but leading what's going on in community releasing new stuff what we are doing and involving our community in decision making for example what event to run next etc etc so that they feel that they are part of the part of the developing the game further and about toxicity not that much problem with that so far so mainly it

depends how much you're willing to give to the community to um you know spread the word so for example if you put a general chat worldwide you know that's that's the thing for us yeah exactly so um um yeah and thinking talking about that so obviously we're all coming from different cultures different uh languages so so you say you have a general chat so does it mean that you have automatic translation or are there elements in your chat so how does people how does a Vietnamese talk to an American for example they usually talk in English uh so we don't have any automatic uh translations what we're going to probably do is like have read then there are Regional chats already okay there's a regional uh so you segregate the communities let's say right not not all of them so there is a worldwide uh General chat and then there are local ones that's that's kind of how we've done it before and then uh there are talks of if we should have like more specific topics uh for different

channels so for example if we add Clans to Hills of Steel to maybe uh like a client recruiting channel would be awesome and that would actually like draw survive the discussion into a more productive way instead of just general stuff that's like a good idea can we steal that sure it's free but uh all ideas are always good to steal by the way because you can only be improved sometimes right so the next example we have see uh it's the future of gaming so um [Music] so you know like you've been doing that for for a long time and that and and we see both the devices getting better the players having a better understanding of what is possible to be done in a game and um so uh so gaming in general is about having fun uh and uh and to actually enjoy the moment so uh where do you see uh

multiplayer let's say in five years from now um considering that the um uh you know the AR devices are probably gonna hit the market in three years from now but also like uh consoles and whatnot or even like mobile will the mobile go away I don't know but um do you have like a um some sort of like a vision of where you think things are gonna go not a huge vision and I think it's going to be multiplayer is probably going to be like everywhere I think even single player games are going to have some sort of a social element in them and they pretty much already do so I think that's only going to be a continuing Trend every game is going to have some sort of a multiplayer element even if they have because there already is like we we watch games we love from twitch and whatever there's always going to be these more social elements so I think it's just going to be an over income encompassing uh thing in every game everywhere I don't think mobile is going

anywhere uh I don't think PC and console is going anywhere I don't think uh VR is going anywhere but I'm I'm super interested in seeing what sort of experience for example if VR really takes off and becomes mainstream what sort of like multiplayer experiences are we gonna get in that front that is super interesting uh at least for me uh I don't know if you have any yeah well not that clear long-term Vision where where the industry is going but the next year will be a big year for multiplayer games so because of threshold to to launch them is getting lower and lower and there will be hold up I don't know if all the games but uh most of the games will be multiplayer entertainment then what comes to gaming itself I think it's not only that you are a gamer and you are active in game it may be that you are participating in a little bit more passive way for example as a spectator or somehow influencing what's going on in the game but you don't have to be

like 100 focused on that uh that the entertainment act that is going on so it may be that some invested time in playing the game and being very active there but some just visit game and spectate it or contribute some other way to to that piece of entertainment yeah but the games will be everywhere yeah I agree and one thing also like uh that is kind of a bigger thing bubbling uh under the under the hood is the sort of cloud gaming uh stuff uh not just stadia but also like I think the latest Microsoft flight simulator did some things where partially the game was like simulated in cloud and then streamed so I think that's also an interesting thing and that also ties into the multiplayer stuff what are all of the simulations that you can do with technology like that so that's also an interesting future direction that I think we're gonna see more about I don't know we all heard about metaverses as well so that's

also a direction we saw like a on our side like a huge intake of uh you know B2B businesses or gonna build a new metaverse of this and that uh so it's interesting to see like all this multiplayer Tech that was built for gaming Landing up in healthcare education and other verticals so um um so we see we see that bubbling so we have one more subject we want to touch which is what kind of advice would you give for game developers in general that would like to give their typical inside the multiplayer or actually go full-fledging it and and then start uh developing yeah here's one don't start building your physics engine yourself it's uh well there's a good good Alternatives in the market so and it's only that boy yeah so uh yeah yeah I'll give Quantum a try yeah that that that's solid advice I would say uh be really careful about your matchmaking

and have a plan of like do actual calculations on based on your concurrent users uh that you're gonna have in your game most likely uh it can be a rough calculation and try to figure out how the matchmaking would work then what's the session linked how many players are in the game and uh how many are you going to have in the lobby at any given moment to actually give uh give others good opponents into the games so I think that's uh that's a pretty big aspect to taking the account and of course like I said before also calculate your sort of server cost in terms of your LTV or your user it can be a rough calculation it probably is fine if you have any sort of good monetization in your game but please do it so you won't be you won't be in a bad position uh later on and I would say also if you're going to going to have any sort of chat related stuff uh give it a function from the very beginning so try to direct the conversation that is uh ongoing in your

community and in in inside the game try to direct that as much as possible into the game itself uh that leaves a lot of the toxic elements out I would say and uh that also like brings out more uh more of the actual game into the into the players hands and they they collaborate on stuff and they discuss about the different mechanics that the games has and like that yeah one more thing is that yeah test the game in different contexts played together with somebody in the same room and in the different places and the design also the ways how players communicate to each other because that's the part of a quick part of the experience so that they can they can share the emotions during the multiplayer play so one suggestion I can make for all of you is that if you're launching a game and there's no players or there's not enough to start a room uh Implement Bots

right so so that way you can at least yes engage and play the game because multiple times we see games at lunch and you know they don't do any marketing they don't do any UA and they expect players to come and the game requires 16 players at the same time or 40 players at the same time and then it you see the Matchmaker going seven eight player and then 5p2 and it goes up and down while you can actually fill the room with Bots and and then people can experience the gameplay because it's when they when they play the game that they're gonna continue to play the game if they don't play it there's no chance they're gonna stay so um yeah yeah actually one interesting detail about that is the matchmaking time you'll want to keep that very very low in a mobile game so it's like five to ten seconds for any given match that's kind of our role for how long it should take if you can't find a match then then just put the part game in because otherwise you'll start churning users because nobody wants to be staying in a loop of like matchmaking especially in a mobile game

and another since I sent for Bots is that the first gameplay don't hesitate to put Bots only uh simply so that they can have a first try of the game and actually succeed right even if they're playing very bad it's just to give a good impression and a good moment for for the players um so yeah so now with that question so uh if any of you have questions we have a microphone in the back uh don't hesitate if you have questions we didn't have any questions so far from the crowd so invite you anyone to not be afraid and and break the glass somebody please otherwise oh there we go yeah yeah no see the microphone is coming there we go it's a bit about your thoughts about retention in multiplayer games uh sorry can you repeat it if you can talk about your thoughts about retention and how to keep the players in the game

yeah well I I think it doesn't the most of the stuff doesn't really uh differ from your single player experience in my my opinion uh but it is I think the matchmaking part is absolutely crucial in the multiplayer game to actually keep retention so you want to have a good idea of what it what a full game session and how many wins and how many losses the player needs to have to actually feel good about playing the game and trying to build your matchmaking around that I think that's probably the key factor for retention in my book at least Yeah in our thinking uh it has a huge retention driver because you have your friends reminding you about the game you have your peer groups asking that hey did you play today let's play together and if they are reminding you that the game exists and uh therefore it's kind

of visited more often than a single player games yeah social investment provides a lot of retention the um there's the Ikea effect that I used to say in in the my live game Operation days which is that when you put value in something you will come back to see what what what's happening so um uh when you have a community that you that is very engaging and you give suggestions and you or you start your own Clan there's obviously a way for you to always come back and when you give the keys to the creators or the players to share a lot of things then again like you're gonna have like this retention effect that starts um so um don't be afraid to you know give opportunities for the players to engage but also um extract content and put it outside of the game as well so um well thank you so much for uh for panelists to be here today it's awesome

and uh um and then mtq for everyone for assisting at this uh master of multiplayer track um and um we're gonna close this track with a reel and thank you again one more time